co-worker rant (prev loss ment)

[Emily]

Hi folks,

This one is (somewhat surprisingly) on-topic, and I just
want to get it off my chest. The back story is too long
and boring to get into in detail, but the quick summary is:

My maternity leave is falling at a somewhat awkward time,
as a new program I am in charge of is starting up this fall
quarter when I'll be on leave. One of the things we need
to do in preparation is get the computing environment set
up, and the guy in charge of that is unhappy with various things
to do with how the department is managed. Recently, he asked
to hold a meeting with me and the chair about one particular
issue, which I resisted, saying I was trying to work from
home as much as possible now that I'm in my third trimester
and furthermore, since I'm on a 9-month contract, I'm
technically under no obligation to do any work for the
university at all (it's summer time --- we don't get any
paid leave in the academic year, it's "understood" that we'll
take our vacation during the time we're not paid and it's
also "understood" that we'll get lots of research done then).

That particular issue managed to get solved after some rounds
of email, but he's still unhappy about other things. So
he sent this long, emotional, TMI message basically ranting about
it all to me and one other faculty member (whom it was appropriate
to address it to, so that's not the problem). Some of his
complaints are legitimate, but I've never worked with someone
who gets so emotional in the workplace and spends so much time
psychoanalyzing everyone around him. At some point in that message,
he said something like your vacations and leaves are no excuse.
This is still your responsibility. And then something like
"you got pregnant" (those are verbatim) so deal. "You got pregnant"
! As if I'm some irresponsible teenager who had unprotected sex
on a one-night stand...

Anyway, what I wanted to say in response to that was "And I'm
damn pleased about it, too! I realize the timing is awkward:
if the world were perfect, I wouldn't be pregnant right now because
the last baby I was carrying wouldn't have DIED." But, part of
the problem is that this guy is too emotional and doesn't know how
to send along the information we need without all the emotional
baggage. So I refrained, and just said basically: My personal
life is my personal life. I draw boundaries to protect the time
that I need. Doing so actually helps me be more productive at
work. I suggest you do the same.

But really, if a woman in her third trimester of pregnancy
(after a previous late-term loss, no less) can refrain from being
emotional in these kinds of interactions, is it so much to ask
others to do so?????

Thanks for listening,
Emily
--
DS 5/02
Scheherazade, stillborn 20w, 3/04
EDD Labor Day 9/5/05

[Jamie Clark]

Emily,
Although I was nodding right along with the answer you DIDN'T chose to send,
the answer that you DID send was completely appropriate and right on target.
You are right not to get sucked in to his over-emotionality. Perhaps you
can send him some "PMS" Tea and a chocolate bar? : ) Maybe it's his time
of the month....
--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03 -- Little Miss Chatty, whose favorite sayings are
"What's going on in here" and "I've gotta get out of here!
Addison Grace, 9/30/04 -- Little Miss Into Everything, whose reach has
extended into the whole coffee table...nothing is safe!

Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1, Password:
Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

"Emily" > wrote in message
...
> Hi folks,
>
> This one is (somewhat surprisingly) on-topic, and I just
> want to get it off my chest. The back story is too long
> and boring to get into in detail, but the quick summary is:
>
> My maternity leave is falling at a somewhat awkward time,
> as a new program I am in charge of is starting up this fall
> quarter when I'll be on leave. One of the things we need
> to do in preparation is get the computing environment set
> up, and the guy in charge of that is unhappy with various things
> to do with how the department is managed. Recently, he asked
> to hold a meeting with me and the chair about one particular
> issue, which I resisted, saying I was trying to work from
> home as much as possible now that I'm in my third trimester
> and furthermore, since I'm on a 9-month contract, I'm
> technically under no obligation to do any work for the
> university at all (it's summer time --- we don't get any
> paid leave in the academic year, it's "understood" that we'll
> take our vacation during the time we're not paid and it's
> also "understood" that we'll get lots of research done then).
>
> That particular issue managed to get solved after some rounds
> of email, but he's still unhappy about other things. So
> he sent this long, emotional, TMI message basically ranting about
> it all to me and one other faculty member (whom it was appropriate
> to address it to, so that's not the problem). Some of his
> complaints are legitimate, but I've never worked with someone
> who gets so emotional in the workplace and spends so much time
> psychoanalyzing everyone around him. At some point in that message,
> he said something like your vacations and leaves are no excuse.
> This is still your responsibility. And then something like
> "you got pregnant" (those are verbatim) so deal. "You got pregnant"
> ! As if I'm some irresponsible teenager who had unprotected sex
> on a one-night stand...
>
> Anyway, what I wanted to say in response to that was "And I'm
> damn pleased about it, too! I realize the timing is awkward:
> if the world were perfect, I wouldn't be pregnant right now because
> the last baby I was carrying wouldn't have DIED." But, part of
> the problem is that this guy is too emotional and doesn't know how
> to send along the information we need without all the emotional
> baggage. So I refrained, and just said basically: My personal
> life is my personal life. I draw boundaries to protect the time
> that I need. Doing so actually helps me be more productive at
> work. I suggest you do the same.
>
> But really, if a woman in her third trimester of pregnancy
> (after a previous late-term loss, no less) can refrain from being
> emotional in these kinds of interactions, is it so much to ask
> others to do so?????
>
> Thanks for listening,
> Emily
> --
> DS 5/02
> Scheherazade, stillborn 20w, 3/04
> EDD Labor Day 9/5/05

[Sue]

"Emily" > wrote in message
One of the things we need
> to do in preparation is get the computing environment set
> up, and the guy in charge of that is unhappy with various things
> to do with how the department is managed. Recently, he asked
> to hold a meeting with me and the chair about one particular
> issue, which I resisted, saying I was trying to work from
> home as much as possible now that I'm in my third trimester
> and furthermore, since I'm on a 9-month contract, I'm
> technically under no obligation to do any work for the
> university at all (it's summer time --- we don't get any
> paid leave in the academic year, it's "understood" that we'll
> take our vacation during the time we're not paid and it's
> also "understood" that we'll get lots of research done then).

Would it have been that big of a deal to go to one meeting so everyone was
on the same page and clued in to what is going on? Maybe that is what is
bothering the guy that you seem disinterested in the project and resistent
to having everyone know whats going on before you go on maternity leave. At
any rate, I don't have a clue, but it is definitely none of his business on
your personal life.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

[Emily]

Jamie Clark wrote:
> Emily,
> Although I was nodding right along with the answer you DIDN'T chose to send,
> the answer that you DID send was completely appropriate and right on target.
> You are right not to get sucked in to his over-emotionality. Perhaps you
> can send him some "PMS" Tea and a chocolate bar? : ) Maybe it's his time
> of the month....

Hah! That'd be funny, but also just the sort of inappropriate
behavior I need to stay above in this.

Emily

[Emily]

Sue wrote:
> Would it have been that big of a deal to go to one meeting so everyone was
> on the same page and clued in to what is going on? Maybe that is what is
> bothering the guy that you seem disinterested in the project and resistent
> to having everyone know whats going on before you go on maternity leave. At
> any rate, I don't have a clue, but it is definitely none of his business on
> your personal life.

He asked for that weekend after three busy weeks for me
(all during this so-called "vacation" time), the last of
which involved several meetings, including two to do with
him. I was really tired. I find that the physical effort
required in commuting to campus/working there instead of
at home really takes a toll at this point.

He and I had another meeting today, in which he requested
that meeting again (even though I think the issues are as
resolve as they're going to get at this point). I told him
I'd think about it.

Emily

[[email protected]]

Although, as a man, I can understand his frustration, he had no right
to bring up your personal life. A reply along the lines of "The choices
that I make in my personal life is of no concern of yours and can be
seen as harrasing remarks. I appreciate if you addressed any future
correspondence towards me or this project in a professional manner. My
goal is to be a responsible employee to the best of my ability and your
personal insults on my character are not in the best interest of this
project. Should you have any issues with my work ethic, please bring
them up to my manager."

I would have cc'ed your manager as well.

Equality in the work place, isn't it grand. ;)

By the way, do you make more than him?

Regards...

Emily wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> This one is (somewhat surprisingly) on-topic, and I just
> want to get it off my chest. The back story is too long
> and boring to get into in detail, but the quick summary is:
>
> My maternity leave is falling at a somewhat awkward time,
> as a new program I am in charge of is starting up this fall
> quarter when I'll be on leave. One of the things we need
> to do in preparation is get the computing environment set
> up, and the guy in charge of that is unhappy with various things
> to do with how the department is managed. Recently, he asked
> to hold a meeting with me and the chair about one particular
> issue, which I resisted, saying I was trying to work from
> home as much as possible now that I'm in my third trimester
> and furthermore, since I'm on a 9-month contract, I'm
> technically under no obligation to do any work for the
> university at all (it's summer time --- we don't get any
> paid leave in the academic year, it's "understood" that we'll
> take our vacation during the time we're not paid and it's
> also "understood" that we'll get lots of research done then).
>
> That particular issue managed to get solved after some rounds
> of email, but he's still unhappy about other things. So
> he sent this long, emotional, TMI message basically ranting about
> it all to me and one other faculty member (whom it was appropriate
> to address it to, so that's not the problem). Some of his
> complaints are legitimate, but I've never worked with someone
> who gets so emotional in the workplace and spends so much time
> psychoanalyzing everyone around him. At some point in that message,
> he said something like your vacations and leaves are no excuse.
> This is still your responsibility. And then something like
> "you got pregnant" (those are verbatim) so deal. "You got pregnant"
> ! As if I'm some irresponsible teenager who had unprotected sex
> on a one-night stand...
>
> Anyway, what I wanted to say in response to that was "And I'm
> damn pleased about it, too! I realize the timing is awkward:
> if the world were perfect, I wouldn't be pregnant right now because
> the last baby I was carrying wouldn't have DIED." But, part of
> the problem is that this guy is too emotional and doesn't know how
> to send along the information we need without all the emotional
> baggage. So I refrained, and just said basically: My personal
> life is my personal life. I draw boundaries to protect the time
> that I need. Doing so actually helps me be more productive at
> work. I suggest you do the same.
>
> But really, if a woman in her third trimester of pregnancy
> (after a previous late-term loss, no less) can refrain from being
> emotional in these kinds of interactions, is it so much to ask
> others to do so?????
>
> Thanks for listening,
> Emily
> --
> DS 5/02
> Scheherazade, stillborn 20w, 3/04
> EDD Labor Day 9/5/05

[Sue]

"Emily" > wrote in message
> He asked for that weekend after three busy weeks for me
> (all during this so-called "vacation" time), the last of
> which involved several meetings, including two to do with
> him. I was really tired. I find that the physical effort
> required in commuting to campus/working there instead of
> at home really takes a toll at this point.

Oh sure, I can definitely believe that. Like I said, I didn't know how your
working schedule was and was wondering what they did expect of you. However,
if it vacation time, then I can see your point. Can he not come to you?

> He and I had another meeting today, in which he requested
> that meeting again (even though I think the issues are as
> resolve as they're going to get at this point). I told him
> I'd think about it.

Hmm. He seems insecure to want to keep going over the matter. But, that's
not your problem. I hope it gets resolved so you can concentrate on the
baby. :o)
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

[Nikki]

Emily wrote:
> That particular issue managed to get solved after some rounds
> of email, but he's still unhappy about other things. So
> he sent this long, emotional, TMI message basically ranting about
> it all to me and one other faculty member (whom it was appropriate
> to address it to, so that's not the problem). Some of his
> complaints are legitimate, but I've never worked with someone
> who gets so emotional in the workplace and spends so much time
> psychoanalyzing everyone around him.

Ugh- I know someone like that. She is a friend, which is hard enough, but
her landlord and co-workers.....I don't know how they tolerate it.

At some point in that message,
> he said something like your vacations and leaves are no excuse.

HA - says he who is not on vacation!

I think you handled it well.

If getting together for a meeting is still an issue and you feel like
meeting would resolve it you could point out that you are on *vacation* so
if there is to be a meeting, people will have to come to you. You can meet
at your house or a local coffee shop or something.

> But really, if a woman in her third trimester of pregnancy
> (after a previous late-term loss, no less) can refrain from being
> emotional in these kinds of interactions, is it so much to ask
> others to do so?????

No kidding. The person I know that is like you describe this guy is utterly
miserable most of the time. So much suffering she has to endure at the
hands of incompetents or irritating people around her <eye roll>. These
types of people are really really focused on themselves and how everything
is about *them*. Try not to let it get you down.

--
Nikki

[emilymr]

"And then something like "you got pregnant" (those are verbatim) so deal.
"You got pregnant"! As if I'm some irresponsible teenager who had
unprotected sex on a one-night stand..."

That drives me NUTS. We have a (male) friend who gets so self-righteously
fired up about company policies protecting pregnant women and parents
(family leave, taking off a morning to take your kid to the doctor, etc.)
-- he always says, "They CHOSE to get pregnant." Which is true, but he's
missing the larger societal benefit these policies are meant to uphold
(umm, can you uphold a benefit?? ;)

Back to the topic, I think your reply to your co-worker was very
professional, and I particularly agree with: [drawing boundaries around
personal time] "actually helps me be more productive at work."

Em
mama to Micah, 11/14/04

[oregonchick]

"Emily" > wrote in message
...
> Hi folks,
>
> This one is (somewhat surprisingly) on-topic, and I just
> want to get it off my chest. The back story is too long
> and boring to get into in detail, but the quick summary is:
>
> My maternity leave is falling at a somewhat awkward time,
> as a new program I am in charge of is starting up this fall
> quarter when I'll be on leave. One of the things we need
> to do in preparation is get the computing environment set
> up, and the guy in charge of that is unhappy with various things
> to do with how the department is managed. Recently, he asked
> to hold a meeting with me and the chair about one particular
> issue, which I resisted, saying I was trying to work from
> home as much as possible now that I'm in my third trimester
> and furthermore, since I'm on a 9-month contract, I'm
> technically under no obligation to do any work for the
> university at all (it's summer time --- we don't get any
> paid leave in the academic year, it's "understood" that we'll
> take our vacation during the time we're not paid and it's
> also "understood" that we'll get lots of research done then).
>
> That particular issue managed to get solved after some rounds
> of email, but he's still unhappy about other things. So
> he sent this long, emotional, TMI message basically ranting about
> it all to me and one other faculty member (whom it was appropriate
> to address it to, so that's not the problem). Some of his
> complaints are legitimate, but I've never worked with someone
> who gets so emotional in the workplace and spends so much time
> psychoanalyzing everyone around him. At some point in that message,
> he said something like your vacations and leaves are no excuse.
> This is still your responsibility. And then something like
> "you got pregnant" (those are verbatim) so deal. "You got pregnant"
> ! As if I'm some irresponsible teenager who had unprotected sex
> on a one-night stand...
>
> Anyway, what I wanted to say in response to that was "And I'm
> damn pleased about it, too! I realize the timing is awkward:
> if the world were perfect, I wouldn't be pregnant right now because
> the last baby I was carrying wouldn't have DIED." But, part of
> the problem is that this guy is too emotional and doesn't know how
> to send along the information we need without all the emotional
> baggage. So I refrained, and just said basically: My personal
> life is my personal life. I draw boundaries to protect the time
> that I need. Doing so actually helps me be more productive at
> work. I suggest you do the same.
>
> But really, if a woman in her third trimester of pregnancy
> (after a previous late-term loss, no less) can refrain from being
> emotional in these kinds of interactions, is it so much to ask
> others to do so?????
>
> Thanks for listening,
> Emily

In my opinion, life is way too short to live with unneccesary stress. There
will always be a**holes and emotional wackos to deal with, but there's got
to be a way to minimize it! Not completely understanding the dynamics of
your situation, I wonder if it's worth it to subject yourself to this,
during a time when you should be relaxed and happily planning your new
baby's arrival. If you absolutely must deal with this guy, perhaps a one on
one about how you feel would help, or maybe bringing in a supervisor to help
work through issues would be good.

My last pregnancy was very stressful, and ended up being miserable as a
result. I am determined this time around to keep it relaxed as possible.
Sometimes that has meant giving up some stuff for simplicity sake, but it
has been worth it.

[Emily]

Nikki wrote:
> Emily wrote:
> I think you handled it well.

Thanks :)

> If getting together for a meeting is still an issue and you feel like
> meeting would resolve it you could point out that you are on *vacation* so
> if there is to be a meeting, people will have to come to you. You can meet
> at your house or a local coffee shop or something.

Well, I'd rather not have him at my house. Local coffee shop maybe,
but we'll see. I've been going in about one day a week recently
for the meetings that I do need to have (I'm working with a couple
of students who are finishing theses, other stuff getting ready for
the program starting this fall, etc).

> No kidding. The person I know that is like you describe this guy is utterly
> miserable most of the time. So much suffering she has to endure at the
> hands of incompetents or irritating people around her <eye roll>. These
> types of people are really really focused on themselves and how everything
> is about *them*. Try not to let it get you down.

I know. He makes this my problem by saying how all this stuff
slows him down in his work (which he is doing for me), but half
of the slow-down is his drama-queen overreaction to stuff.

Emily

[Emily]

emilymr wrote:
> "And then something like "you got pregnant" (those are verbatim) so deal.
> "You got pregnant"! As if I'm some irresponsible teenager who had
> unprotected sex on a one-night stand..."
>
> That drives me NUTS. We have a (male) friend who gets so self-righteously
> fired up about company policies protecting pregnant women and parents
> (family leave, taking off a morning to take your kid to the doctor, etc.)
> -- he always says, "They CHOSE to get pregnant." Which is true, but he's
> missing the larger societal benefit these policies are meant to uphold
> (umm, can you uphold a benefit?? ;)

Indeed. And won't those same policies be beneficial to him
if he finds himself needing medical treatment for some reason?
Or neeeding time to take care of an ailing parent?

> Back to the topic, I think your reply to your co-worker was very
> professional, and I particularly agree with: [drawing boundaries around
> personal time] "actually helps me be more productive at work."

Thanks :) Half of what I meant by that comment was that *he*
shouldn't be sharing so many details of his personal life with
*me* (so the boundaries aren't just about time). Part of his
rant was a detailed list of all the things he wasn't getting to
in his personal life because he was so overworked. *Way* TMI,
to the extent that he used a word which he typed as asterisks...

Emily

[Emily]

oregonchick wrote:
> In my opinion, life is way too short to live with unneccesary stress. There
> will always be a**holes and emotional wackos to deal with, but there's got
> to be a way to minimize it! Not completely understanding the dynamics of
> your situation, I wonder if it's worth it to subject yourself to this,
> during a time when you should be relaxed and happily planning your new
> baby's arrival. If you absolutely must deal with this guy, perhaps a one on
> one about how you feel would help, or maybe bringing in a supervisor to help
> work through issues would be good.
>
> My last pregnancy was very stressful, and ended up being miserable as a
> result. I am determined this time around to keep it relaxed as possible.
> Sometimes that has meant giving up some stuff for simplicity sake, but it
> has been worth it.

Thanks. I do have to deal with him, unfortunately. The up side is
that I'm pretty good at not letting it get to me. We (just he and
I) had a meeting on Friday, which wasn't entirely pleasant. He ranted
some, and I could actually feel my bp/pulse rate rise. But, I just
sat there very still and worked on calming myself, and that seemed
to do okay.

Emily

[Chookie]

In article >, Emily >
wrote:

> he sent this long, emotional, TMI message basically ranting about
> it all to me and one other faculty member (whom it was appropriate
> to address it to, so that's not the problem). Some of his
> complaints are legitimate, but I've never worked with someone
> who gets so emotional in the workplace and spends so much time
> psychoanalyzing everyone around him. At some point in that message,
> he said something like your vacations and leaves are no excuse.
> This is still your responsibility. And then something like
> "you got pregnant" (those are verbatim) so deal. "You got pregnant"
> ! As if I'm some irresponsible teenager who had unprotected sex
> on a one-night stand...

Phew! What a loser! And he could be on thin ice by referring to your
pregnancy -- depends on your workplace discrimination laws.

> baggage. So I refrained, and just said basically: My personal
> life is my personal life. I draw boundaries to protect the time
> that I need. Doing so actually helps me be more productive at
> work. I suggest you do the same.

Good call.

> But really, if a woman in her third trimester of pregnancy
> (after a previous late-term loss, no less) can refrain from being
> emotional in these kinds of interactions, is it so much to ask
> others to do so?????

Maybe your supervisor can talk to his supervisor -- he may need to be told
what's appropriate workplace communication and what isn't.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"In Melbourne there is plenty of vigour and eagerness, but there is
nothing worth being eager or vigorous about."
Francis Adams, The Australians, 1893.

[Emily]

Chookie wrote:
>>But really, if a woman in her third trimester of pregnancy
>>(after a previous late-term loss, no less) can refrain from being
>>emotional in these kinds of interactions, is it so much to ask
>>others to do so?????
>
>
> Maybe your supervisor can talk to his supervisor -- he may need to be told
> what's appropriate workplace communication and what isn't.

Unfortunately, I *am* one of his supervisors. But, things
are going more smoothly now.

Emily

[[email protected]]

Emily > writes:

: But really, if a woman in her third trimester of pregnancy
: (after a previous late-term loss, no less) can refrain from being
: emotional in these kinds of interactions, is it so much to ask
: others to do so?????

Personally, I think you have been dealing with him exceptionally
well. Now I will offer the unsolicited advice, which I know you
are doing anyway. :-)

Since he takes a personal emotional involvement in all the problems
that he tries to solve, you need to focus on the problems per-se
and ignore the emotional reactions. I suggest that you deal with
him in as formal manner as possible and understate any reaction you
have to his comments.

:-)
Larry

[Emily]

wrote:
> Emily > writes:
>
> : But really, if a woman in her third trimester of pregnancy
> : (after a previous late-term loss, no less) can refrain from being
> : emotional in these kinds of interactions, is it so much to ask
> : others to do so?????
>
> Personally, I think you have been dealing with him exceptionally
> well. Now I will offer the unsolicited advice, which I know you

Thanks :)

> are doing anyway. :-)
>
> Since he takes a personal emotional involvement in all the problems
> that he tries to solve, you need to focus on the problems per-se
> and ignore the emotional reactions. I suggest that you deal with
> him in as formal manner as possible and understate any reaction you
> have to his comments.

That's about what I've been striving to do. It's tiring, but
it seems to be the only way.

Emily

[[email protected]]

Emily > writes:

: That's about what I've been striving to do. It's tiring, but
: it seems to be the only way.

Yeah, less tiring than a ****ing contest. Besides, in your condition,
you probably can't carry that much ammunition!

:-)
Larry

[Sue]

"Emily" > wrote in message
> Unfortunately, I *am* one of his supervisors. But, things
> are going more smoothly now.

That's good to hear. Wow, I can't believe he said all that to you and you
are his one of his supervisors. Is he a needy type of guy?
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

[Emily]

Sue wrote:
> "Emily" > wrote in message
>
>>Unfortunately, I *am* one of his supervisors. But, things
>>are going more smoothly now.
>
>
> That's good to hear. Wow, I can't believe he said all that to you and you
> are his one of his supervisors. Is he a needy type of guy?

He is, and I don't usually get the worst of it. His
main supervisor he already knew as a friend before
coming to work here (I think). At any rate, they claim
to be friends now. That supervisor gets much, much
more of this kind of thing. He's just not good at separating his
feelings about a problem from a clear statement of the
problem itself...

Emily