new weird behaviour

[Jo]

Ok, so I'm learning to deal with the shorter sleeps Will is having. He
goes to sleep really easily, it's just a matter of keeping him asleep.

That's not the weird bit....

Today when he was getting close to his sleep time, he was getting
*really* wired... almost manic. Giggling, squealing, screetching, etc.
He reminded me of the loopy Mugwai in "Gremlins". I didn't know if he
was just practicing this new sound he's worked out how to do, or what.

He eventually got to sleep, but giggled at me with the dummy in his
mouth every time I "sshhh'd" him. I had to leave, as I didn't want to
encourage it. He grunted his way to sleep.

This evening though, after acting all manic again, he SCREAMED when I
put him down for his sleep. I tried to settle him in the cot, but
everytime I turned away, he'd SCREAM again. So I tried to settle him
with a feed on my bed, but after he fed he started with the manic
behaviour again.

I thought it could have been something to do with the pudding I ate last
night - lots of food colourings, and it was weight watchers, so probably
lots of fake sugar in it, too. Elizabeth, if you're reading this, do
you know what numbers I should look out for with additives?

Anyway, after about 3 hours, DH suggested we try panadol. He'd already
tried a shower with him, which he loved, but started getting ansty with
the dressing bit, and screamed again when he put him in the cot.

10 min after the panadol, he fed again to sleep, and I was able to put
him in his cot with no problems.

Does this sound like 'normal' weird behaviour to anyone? Or does it
sound like something caused by a food/additive allergy? Today is day 1
of my Dairy elimination diet, too - as someone suggested that as a
reason for his wakefulness the last 3 weeks.

Does anyone else have a manic 4.5 month old???

Thanks!
Jo

[Sue]

It sounds like he was overtired to me and nothing to do with the food you
atex last night. DD3 will run around the house like a crazy lady when she is
tired, but overtired and overstimulated. I would have stopped all the stuff
you were trying to do and have the room dark with white noise and let him
blow off some steam just like your previous article showed. It sounds to me
that since he is waking more that he is not getting good sleep.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Jo" > wrote in message
...
> Ok, so I'm learning to deal with the shorter sleeps Will is having. He
> goes to sleep really easily, it's just a matter of keeping him asleep.
>
> That's not the weird bit....
>
> Today when he was getting close to his sleep time, he was getting
> *really* wired... almost manic. Giggling, squealing, screetching, etc.
> He reminded me of the loopy Mugwai in "Gremlins". I didn't know if he
> was just practicing this new sound he's worked out how to do, or what.
>
> He eventually got to sleep, but giggled at me with the dummy in his
> mouth every time I "sshhh'd" him. I had to leave, as I didn't want to
> encourage it. He grunted his way to sleep.
>
> This evening though, after acting all manic again, he SCREAMED when I
> put him down for his sleep. I tried to settle him in the cot, but
> everytime I turned away, he'd SCREAM again. So I tried to settle him
> with a feed on my bed, but after he fed he started with the manic
> behaviour again.
>
> I thought it could have been something to do with the pudding I ate last
> night - lots of food colourings, and it was weight watchers, so probably
> lots of fake sugar in it, too. Elizabeth, if you're reading this, do
> you know what numbers I should look out for with additives?
>
> Anyway, after about 3 hours, DH suggested we try panadol. He'd already
> tried a shower with him, which he loved, but started getting ansty with
> the dressing bit, and screamed again when he put him in the cot.
>
> 10 min after the panadol, he fed again to sleep, and I was able to put
> him in his cot with no problems.
>
> Does this sound like 'normal' weird behaviour to anyone? Or does it
> sound like something caused by a food/additive allergy? Today is day 1
> of my Dairy elimination diet, too - as someone suggested that as a
> reason for his wakefulness the last 3 weeks.
>
> Does anyone else have a manic 4.5 month old???
>
> Thanks!
> Jo

[Nikki]

Jo wrote:

> Does this sound like 'normal' weird behaviour to anyone? Or does it
> sound like something caused by a food/additive allergy? Today is day
> 1 of my Dairy elimination diet, too - as someone suggested that as a
> reason for his wakefulness the last 3 weeks.

It sounds normal to me.

Honestly, Hunter was just like you describe. He screamed bloody murder the
second I set him down. So I never did. That child woke up every 45 minutes
and did the same thing until he was nearly two years old. He wouldn't sleep
alone for more then 1-2 hours until he was over two years old. That is all
good and fine but how many adults can stay in bed for 12 hours that a kid
needs to sleep? Not me. It gets old going in every 90 minutes to spend 30
minutes getting a toddler back to sleep.

Luke was not as bad but he was far from a good sleeper. I did sleep
training at 3yo to get him to stay asleep in his bed, without me, until at
least midnight.

I've been watching your other thread very closely. He may grow out of it in
a month like some people experience but I wouldn't count on it if you
continue to find ways to make sure he doesn't cry at all. I think you
should think about if you want to do this for the long haul or not. It is
certainly fine if you think you'd rather do this long term then have him
cry. I hung in there with Hunter and mostly with Luke (he was easier) but
hopefully I will be strong enough with this next baby to lay him in the crib
and let him be for 15 minutes. I want to be strong enough to let him cry
for 5-10 minutes at night to see if he'd go back to sleep versus nursing him
at every squeak. I've no desire to put up with those kind of sleep habits
again because with my kids' genetics they do not grow out of it on any kind
of reasonable schedule. The older they get the *harder* it gets to make
changes. When they are tiny - they just lay there until they fall asleep.
When they are big they stand up, move around, totally keep themselves awake
and they have a lot more stamina. They are used to certain things (like mom
nursing me at every twitch and then laying in the crook of her arm all
night) and have no intention of letting go of those things without a fight.

I know there are mothers that have no problem (or at least deal better then
I do) with kids like mine so don't take my word as the end all be all ! :-).
They find it manageable and you might to. In hindsight I sacrificed to much
at the alter of not wanting my babies to cry. We were all tired and strung
out and it didn't do any of us any good.

--
Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
EDD 4/06

[Anne Rogers]

well when it has just happened once I wouldn't say it was a behaviour, more
a blip, we've had the odd episode where things have been completley
unexpected, you just live through it, try all the tricks in the book and
chances are it never happens again.

Anne

[Marie]

"Jo" > wrote in message
...
> Ok, so I'm learning to deal with the shorter sleeps Will is having. He
> goes to sleep really easily, it's just a matter of keeping him asleep.
>
> That's not the weird bit....
>
> Today when he was getting close to his sleep time, he was getting
> *really* wired... almost manic. Giggling, squealing, screetching, etc.
> He reminded me of the loopy Mugwai in "Gremlins". I didn't know if he
> was just practicing this new sound he's worked out how to do, or what.
>
> He eventually got to sleep, but giggled at me with the dummy in his
> mouth every time I "sshhh'd" him. I had to leave, as I didn't want to
> encourage it. He grunted his way to sleep.
>
> This evening though, after acting all manic again, he SCREAMED when I
> put him down for his sleep. I tried to settle him in the cot, but
> everytime I turned away, he'd SCREAM again. So I tried to settle him
> with a feed on my bed, but after he fed he started with the manic
> behaviour again.
>
> I thought it could have been something to do with the pudding I ate last
> night - lots of food colourings, and it was weight watchers, so probably
> lots of fake sugar in it, too. Elizabeth, if you're reading this, do
> you know what numbers I should look out for with additives?
>
> Anyway, after about 3 hours, DH suggested we try panadol. He'd already
> tried a shower with him, which he loved, but started getting ansty with
> the dressing bit, and screamed again when he put him in the cot.
>
> 10 min after the panadol, he fed again to sleep, and I was able to put
> him in his cot with no problems.
>
> Does this sound like 'normal' weird behaviour to anyone? Or does it
> sound like something caused by a food/additive allergy? Today is day 1
> of my Dairy elimination diet, too - as someone suggested that as a
> reason for his wakefulness the last 3 weeks.
>
> Does anyone else have a manic 4.5 month old???
>
> Thanks!
> Jo

Going on what you wrote, I doubt it's a behavioral issue or a food allergy.
Maybe he simply needs help with adjusting his bedtime.

He might be overtired or overstimulated, and you could try adjusting his
sleeping times before he starts to "act up." His bedtime may need to be
earlier by an hour, for example. Or stop roughhousing and have a quiet time
before it's time to sleep. Try and keep his current routine consistent if
possible.

Wakefulness might be due to teething or a major milestone such as rolling,
crawling, etc. This is normal behavior for an infant.

Here is some reading on infants' sleep patterns.

http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/sleepstudies.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8680184&dopt=Abstract

Marie
DD-20 mo

[JennP]

"Sue" > wrote in message
...
> It sounds like he was overtired to me and nothing to do with the food you
> atex last night. DD3 will run around the house like a crazy lady when she
is
> tired, but overtired and overstimulated. I would have stopped all the
stuff
> you were trying to do and have the room dark with white noise and let him
> blow off some steam just like your previous article showed. It sounds to
me
> that since he is waking more that he is not getting good sleep.

I agree with Sue that he sounds totally overtired and I too think it most
likely had nothing to do with what you ate. Especially since this is a one
time thing.

Try starting to put him down earlier, just before he starts showing signs of
tiredness.

JennP.

[Anne Rogers]

> hopefully I will be strong enough with this next baby to lay him in the
> crib and let him be for 15 minutes. I want to be strong enough to let him
> cry

the way I do this, is to set a timer for 15 minutes, then get busy, put a
load of washing on, pick things up, that kind of thing, it's not going to be
relaxing, so you might as well use the time! Thankfully I've only had to do
this once with Ada, at one point with Nathanael it was almost daily :-(.

Anne

[meee]

I'm top posting here sorry...I agree with everything Nikki said; I did that
with DS1; he slept with us at least part of the night until 1 year, and I
had very little in the way of time to myself. In the end I put my foot down
with him, but he would scream every bed time until he was nearly two. Now he
is very good, and I never had any of those problems with DS1 as I sleep
trained him from the beginning. It doesn't hurt babies to cry, I practised
'controlled comforting' with both, and i still do it with DS2 so if he wakes
I will go in, give him a cuddle then put him back down. Now he is older I am
using verbal cues with him if I feel he is just crying for attention. I will
loudly and firmly say his name, then say 'Bed time. Good night" I don't
yell, but use a veryfirm voice, and repeat several times. The trick is to
use a very no-nonsense tone of voice, this cuts through the tired crying,
and he usually settles straight away. I use other 'sleep cues' such as a
drink of water or covering with a sheet. If you pick them up every time they
cry they are training you, not the other way around. of course if the baby
is really distressed, pick him up and settle him, but if you feel he is just
crying for attention, patting him on the back might work instead. And for
the record, DS1 and 2 both exhibit extremely strange behaviour when very
overtired; Ds1 especially seeems to 'speed up' and does everything very fast
and very silly. The advice given by everyone else definitely works; if they
get tired and overemotional, just put them to bed and ignore the screams.

--
There are many intelligent species in the Universe. They are all owned by
cats.

Anonymous

One cat just leads to another. -Ernest Hemingway


"Nikki" > wrote in message
...
> Jo wrote:
>
> > Does this sound like 'normal' weird behaviour to anyone? Or does it
> > sound like something caused by a food/additive allergy? Today is day
> > 1 of my Dairy elimination diet, too - as someone suggested that as a
> > reason for his wakefulness the last 3 weeks.
>
> It sounds normal to me.
>
> Honestly, Hunter was just like you describe. He screamed bloody murder
the
> second I set him down. So I never did. That child woke up every 45
minutes
> and did the same thing until he was nearly two years old. He wouldn't
sleep
> alone for more then 1-2 hours until he was over two years old. That is
all
> good and fine but how many adults can stay in bed for 12 hours that a kid
> needs to sleep? Not me. It gets old going in every 90 minutes to spend
30
> minutes getting a toddler back to sleep.
>
> Luke was not as bad but he was far from a good sleeper. I did sleep
> training at 3yo to get him to stay asleep in his bed, without me, until at
> least midnight.
>
> I've been watching your other thread very closely. He may grow out of it
in
> a month like some people experience but I wouldn't count on it if you
> continue to find ways to make sure he doesn't cry at all. I think you
> should think about if you want to do this for the long haul or not. It is
> certainly fine if you think you'd rather do this long term then have him
> cry. I hung in there with Hunter and mostly with Luke (he was easier) but
> hopefully I will be strong enough with this next baby to lay him in the
crib
> and let him be for 15 minutes. I want to be strong enough to let him cry
> for 5-10 minutes at night to see if he'd go back to sleep versus nursing
him
> at every squeak. I've no desire to put up with those kind of sleep habits
> again because with my kids' genetics they do not grow out of it on any
kind
> of reasonable schedule. The older they get the *harder* it gets to make
> changes. When they are tiny - they just lay there until they fall asleep.
> When they are big they stand up, move around, totally keep themselves
awake
> and they have a lot more stamina. They are used to certain things (like
mom
> nursing me at every twitch and then laying in the crook of her arm all
> night) and have no intention of letting go of those things without a
fight.
>
> I know there are mothers that have no problem (or at least deal better
then
> I do) with kids like mine so don't take my word as the end all be all !
:-).
> They find it manageable and you might to. In hindsight I sacrificed to
much
> at the alter of not wanting my babies to cry. We were all tired and
strung
> out and it didn't do any of us any good.
>
> --
> Nikki
> Hunter 4/99
> Luke 4/01
> EDD 4/06
>
>

[Jo]

Thanks for all of your replies :) I think I am a hypocondriac!

I am usually really good at interpreting his sleep cues. As soon as he
rubs his eyes and pushes spit out of his mouth, I know I have a few min
before he starts whinging a bit. If I put him to bed then, he'll go
straight to sleep. What happened yesterday was, I was in the middle of
walking him in the pram. He started to get whingy, and I had a block to
go. I changed his nappy and put him straight to bed when I got home -
that's when the fun started!

I do tend more towards the AP method - I just have this gut feeling that
you *should* pander to a baby's needs before they are old enough to
reason with.

.... this *is* my first, so I'll let you know whether all that changes
with #2!

:)

Jo

[Sue]

"Jo" > wrote in message
> I do tend more towards the AP method - I just have this gut feeling that
> you *should* pander to a baby's needs before they are old enough to
> reason with.

Okay this is my goat with the AP school of thought. Your baby *needs* to
sleep. You are meeting his *need* by helping him to get himself to sleep and
before he gets too overstimulated. Crying is not a bad thing, sometimes it
is okay for them to cry, not a distressed cry and hence the child feeling
abandoned, but if the child cries to let off some steam and you let him do
it, you are meeting his need. This thought of never letting a baby cry is
crazy. That's what babies do to let you know they need you. If you meet his
need to get himself organized to sleep, then you are meeting his need.

<<<rant off>>>
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

[JennP]

"Jo" > wrote in message
...

> I do tend more towards the AP method - I just have this gut feeling that
> you *should* pander to a baby's needs before they are old enough to
> reason with.

Goodness, that would be by about age four then, no? ;)

JennP.

[Arte]

Jo,

I can't remember how old H was, he was definitely only little - 6mo at the
most. But he did something similar one night - if he had the capacity, he
would have been swinging from the light fittings. He was party boy for
something like three or four hours... happy as a clam if someone was up and
playing with him and screaming his head off the second he was put in his
cot. The only thing I'd done differently was give him some plain label baby
panadol and it had an artificial sweetener in it.

I rang the maternal and child health hotline and she had never heard of it
happening, but just to be on the safe side, I tossed the bottle of chemists
own and now I just buy the real deal. It's never happened again.

So, maybe just one of those weirdarse baby things to throw you off your
stride, maybe Will doesn't like fake sugar!

Jodi

[Jo]

Arte wrote:
> Jo,
>
> I can't remember how old H was, he was definitely only little - 6mo at the
> most. But he did something similar one night - if he had the capacity, he
> would have been swinging from the light fittings. He was party boy for
> something like three or four hours... happy as a clam if someone was up and
> playing with him and screaming his head off the second he was put in his
> cot. The only thing I'd done differently was give him some plain label baby
> panadol and it had an artificial sweetener in it.
>
> I rang the maternal and child health hotline and she had never heard of it
> happening, but just to be on the safe side, I tossed the bottle of chemists
> own and now I just buy the real deal. It's never happened again.
>
> So, maybe just one of those weirdarse baby things to throw you off your
> stride, maybe Will doesn't like fake sugar!
>
> Jodi
>
>

We ended up giving him some panadol (no artificial stuff in it) and he
was asleep in 10 minutes on the breast. I am thinking he's a little
sensitive baby - eczema and all. I'm currently trying a dairy-free diet
for 10 days to see if that helps the sleeping or his skin (or both!!)
and perhaps the manic ep was due to withdrawals??!

Thanks :)

Jo

[[email protected]]

Sometimes at night I'll put Shiny down on the bed and she'll just start
giggling for no apparent reason, and then *anything* will set her off
for a while...and since she sets me off, well, much hilarity ensues.

I wouldn't guess food...I'd just guess overtired or overstimulated or
working on some developmental leap and it will be 100% different (not
necessarily better or worse) tomorrow.

Unless of course you just started an evening coffee habit...

[Jo]

Sue wrote:
> "Jo" > wrote in message
>
>>I do tend more towards the AP method - I just have this gut feeling that
>>you *should* pander to a baby's needs before they are old enough to
>>reason with.
>
>
> Okay this is my goat with the AP school of thought. Your baby *needs* to
> sleep. You are meeting his *need* by helping him to get himself to sleep and
> before he gets too overstimulated. Crying is not a bad thing, sometimes it
> is okay for them to cry, not a distressed cry and hence the child feeling
> abandoned, but if the child cries to let off some steam and you let him do
> it, you are meeting his need. This thought of never letting a baby cry is
> crazy. That's what babies do to let you know they need you. If you meet his
> need to get himself organized to sleep, then you are meeting his need.
>
> <<<rant off>>>

Yes, that makes sense too... I just think the level of crying is the
deciding factor in all of this. If his crying is levelling off or
calming down with me leaving, then fine, he can cry/whinge himself to
sleep....but if it's worse when I leave - that's a sign that he won't
sleep easily, and that he needs me. Or thinks he needs me - there is no
difference with a little baby.

I know it is unrealistic for him never to cry - it's his only
communication that he's not happy, his only protest. They are
programmed to cry to get something done about the situation they're in.
It's just so damned hard to hear though! :)

Jo

[Nikki]

JennP wrote:
> "Jo" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I do tend more towards the AP method - I just have this gut feeling
>> that you *should* pander to a baby's needs before they are old
>> enough to reason with.
>
> Goodness, that would be by about age four then, no? ;)

Well Luke is still beyond reason, lol.

--
Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
EDD 4/06

[JennP]

"Nikki" > wrote in message
...
> JennP wrote:
> > "Jo" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >> I do tend more towards the AP method - I just have this gut feeling
> >> that you *should* pander to a baby's needs before they are old
> >> enough to reason with.
> >
> > Goodness, that would be by about age four then, no? ;)
>
> Well Luke is still beyond reason, lol.

Exactly! :)

JennP.

[meee]

"Jo" > wrote in message
...
> Sue wrote:
> > "Jo" > wrote in message
> >
> >>I do tend more towards the AP method - I just have this gut feeling that
> >>you *should* pander to a baby's needs before they are old enough to
> >>reason with.
> >
> >
> > Okay this is my goat with the AP school of thought. Your baby *needs* to
> > sleep. You are meeting his *need* by helping him to get himself to sleep
and
> > before he gets too overstimulated. Crying is not a bad thing, sometimes
it
> > is okay for them to cry, not a distressed cry and hence the child
feeling
> > abandoned, but if the child cries to let off some steam and you let him
do
> > it, you are meeting his need. This thought of never letting a baby cry
is
> > crazy. That's what babies do to let you know they need you. If you meet
his
> > need to get himself organized to sleep, then you are meeting his need.
> >
> > <<<rant off>>>
>
> Yes, that makes sense too... I just think the level of crying is the
> deciding factor in all of this. If his crying is levelling off or
> calming down with me leaving, then fine, he can cry/whinge himself to
> sleep....but if it's worse when I leave - that's a sign that he won't
> sleep easily, and that he needs me. Or thinks he needs me - there is no
> difference with a little baby.
>
> I know it is unrealistic for him never to cry - it's his only
> communication that he's not happy, his only protest. They are
> programmed to cry to get something done about the situation they're in.
> It's just so damned hard to hear though! :)
>
> Jo

I know :^) DH would never understand why I got on edge the minute they
cried!!! And whatever your gut feeling is telling you...you know what he's
saying, and you can tell when it's an 'owie' cry or a 'I'm going to make
mummy's life hell' cry