Need support - extended breastfeeding issues

[Cathy Weeks]

I always thought that I'd let Kivi self wean. She's now 2 days away
from her 4th birthday, and showing NO sign of weaning. And in fact,
she still seems to need it.

Our major breastfeedings each day are when we wake up, at naptime, and
at bedtime, though when the latter happens, she doesn't nurse to sleep,
and hasn't for about a year now. Nursing just quit having the power to
make her fall asleep at night for whatever reason. She goes to sleep
on her own (after getting a drink of water after nursing - and yes, her
teeth are in excellent condition). She does still fall asleep for her
nap with nursing though. Except if she's at a babysitter, or if her dad
is putting her down (I'm away during the day or something).

However, she still likes to nurse during the day from time to time, and
still even has "nursy-days" where she wants to nurse a LOT. We don't
really nurse when we are out in public.

I get resentful of nursing on two occasions: on her nursy days, when
they happen, and when I put her down for her nap, and we nurse and
nurse and nurse and nurse and she just doesn't fall asleep
(fortunately, that doesn't happen often). I just had that happen today
- after laying with her and nurseing for more than 30 minutes, I'm just
bouncing off the wall, and frustrated and resentful.

On one hand, I really want her to wean when she's ready. She seems to
still need it somehow. I also want her to be able to remember nursing,
and think of the warm sweet safe feelings that she seems to get. And
most people don't remember much from this age. On the other hand...
I've been doing this a long time. And I'm kind of tired of it.

I'm thinking about doing a day-weaning where we limit nursing to JUST
when we are in bed - when first waking up (which is arguably the most
important to her) - she crawls into bed with me in the mornings, at
nap, and before bed, and that's it.

I don't know what I want - that's the hard part.

When she has a nursy day, we have methods to keep it from being too
much for me - we negotiate a certain amount of time first - like I'll
say "I can only do a counting nurse. Howabout a 5?" And she'll nurse
until I count to five on each side, and then she happily goes on her
way. And sometimes, she'll negotiate a higher number (yesterday it was
14).

Anyway - for those who have done extended nursing - tell me how you
dealt with these things. My daughter for what it's worth, is an
absolutely fearless child who LOVES people and knows no stranger. She's
not scared of the dark, not scared of monsters, nothing really. She's
not clingy really at all (except maybe on nursy days, and if there's
something new to do, then that goes away). Very independent. I credit
our extended nursing for at least part of that.

Cathy Weeks

[Sidheag McCormack]

Cathy Weeks writes:

> I get resentful of nursing on two occasions: on her nursy days, when
> they happen, and when I put her down for her nap, and we nurse and nurse
> and nurse and nurse and she just doesn't fall asleep (fortunately, that
> doesn't happen often). I just had that happen today - after laying with
> her and nurseing for more than 30 minutes, I'm just bouncing off the
> wall, and frustrated and resentful.

> On one hand, I really want her to wean when she's ready. She seems to
> still need it somehow. I also want her to be able to remember nursing,
> and think of the warm sweet safe feelings that she seems to get. And
> most people don't remember much from this age. On the other hand... I've
> been doing this a long time. And I'm kind of tired of it.

> I'm thinking about doing a day-weaning where we limit nursing to JUST
> when we are in bed - when first waking up (which is arguably the most
> important to her) - she crawls into bed with me in the mornings, at nap,
> and before bed, and that's it.

> I don't know what I want - that's the hard part.

> When she has a nursy day, we have methods to keep it from being too much
> for me - we negotiate a certain amount of time first - like I'll say "I
> can only do a counting nurse. Howabout a 5?" And she'll nurse until I
> count to five on each side, and then she happily goes on her way. And
> sometimes, she'll negotiate a higher number (yesterday it was 14).

My sympathy. I'll throw in a couple of ideas in case they're any use:

- A friend of mine (not sure whether she's reading here or not at the
moment) who was similarly frustrated has recently started a token system
with her toddler (2.something yo): each day, she gives her daughter 4
tokens (counters, or some such), and each time her DD has a side of
nursing, she needs to "pay" with a token. She can carry her tokens over
vfrom day to day, if she wants. She says it's been fantastically successful.

- My DS fairly recently stopped falling asleep nursing. Accidentally I
found out that actually, he doesn't really want to keep nursing and nursing
- I think he just thought it was expected, or something! Now I remind him
each time "when you've had enough milk, you can come off and go to sleep,
and I'll stay and lie down with you for a bit". Often he comes off
immediately I say it, other times a bit later, but it's definitely cut down
on the length of time he nurses. He'll often then drink water, talk to
himself, grab a teddy bear, etc.; if he asks for "more mummy milk" I gently
remind him that he's finished and it's time to go to sleep. (If it's at
night: at naptime, it quite often happens that he lies down to have milk
and then gets up to play rather than napping at all. I don't fight that, I
just avoid playing directly with him for a bit so that he has some kind of
"quiet time" at least.)

- When I'm finding he's nursing more than I want, what's usually happening
is that he's going backwards and forewards from side to side. What I'll do
then is tell him while he's on one side that this is the last time on that
side. When he comes off to go to the other side, I say "this side is going
to sleep now, night night breast" and do my bra up over it, while he nurses
on the other side. When he's finished on that side, we say night night to
that side too. I think warning him that when he comes to a natural break,
that'll be the end, is key - it works much better than actually taking him
off when he hasn't reached a natural break!

I've been quite surprised in recent months at how flexible my DS can be!
Hope you manage to work something out too.

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003

[CY]

I sympathise completely. I am tandeming my almost 4 yr old and my 6 month
old and somedays I feel as though I will go crazy with the nursing.

I talked to my dd about how I didn't always like nursing them both at the
same time and how I only wanted to nurse her in bed for sleeping now. When
she asks during the day, I don't say "no", I just say "yes, when it's
bedtime (or naptime)." She's mostly ok with that and sometimes we just
count to 5 (or 10) when I just can't bear it, even at night. My DD doesn't
nurse to sleep anymore either, but she's hardly napping anymore either.

I do want to wean her, but she also still seems to need it. I don't know the
answer, but Sidheag had some useful suggestions...
"Cathy Weeks" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I always thought that I'd let Kivi self wean. She's now 2 days away
> from her 4th birthday, and showing NO sign of weaning. And in fact,
> she still seems to need it.
>
> Our major breastfeedings each day are when we wake up, at naptime, and
> at bedtime, though when the latter happens, she doesn't nurse to sleep,
> and hasn't for about a year now. Nursing just quit having the power to
> make her fall asleep at night for whatever reason. She goes to sleep
> on her own (after getting a drink of water after nursing - and yes, her
> teeth are in excellent condition). She does still fall asleep for her
> nap with nursing though. Except if she's at a babysitter, or if her dad
> is putting her down (I'm away during the day or something).
>
> However, she still likes to nurse during the day from time to time, and
> still even has "nursy-days" where she wants to nurse a LOT. We don't
> really nurse when we are out in public.
>
> I get resentful of nursing on two occasions: on her nursy days, when
> they happen, and when I put her down for her nap, and we nurse and
> nurse and nurse and nurse and she just doesn't fall asleep
> (fortunately, that doesn't happen often). I just had that happen today
> - after laying with her and nurseing for more than 30 minutes, I'm just
> bouncing off the wall, and frustrated and resentful.
>
> On one hand, I really want her to wean when she's ready. She seems to
> still need it somehow. I also want her to be able to remember nursing,
> and think of the warm sweet safe feelings that she seems to get. And
> most people don't remember much from this age. On the other hand...
> I've been doing this a long time. And I'm kind of tired of it.
>
> I'm thinking about doing a day-weaning where we limit nursing to JUST
> when we are in bed - when first waking up (which is arguably the most
> important to her) - she crawls into bed with me in the mornings, at
> nap, and before bed, and that's it.
>
> I don't know what I want - that's the hard part.
>
> When she has a nursy day, we have methods to keep it from being too
> much for me - we negotiate a certain amount of time first - like I'll
> say "I can only do a counting nurse. Howabout a 5?" And she'll nurse
> until I count to five on each side, and then she happily goes on her
> way. And sometimes, she'll negotiate a higher number (yesterday it was
> 14).
>
> Anyway - for those who have done extended nursing - tell me how you
> dealt with these things. My daughter for what it's worth, is an
> absolutely fearless child who LOVES people and knows no stranger. She's
> not scared of the dark, not scared of monsters, nothing really. She's
> not clingy really at all (except maybe on nursy days, and if there's
> something new to do, then that goes away). Very independent. I credit
> our extended nursing for at least part of that.
>
> Cathy Weeks
>

[NL]

Hi Cathy :-)

Cathy Weeks wrote:
> I get resentful of nursing on two occasions: on her nursy days, when
> they happen, and when I put her down for her nap, and we nurse and
> nurse and nurse and nurse and she just doesn't fall asleep
> (fortunately, that doesn't happen often). I just had that happen today
> - after laying with her and nurseing for more than 30 minutes, I'm just
> bouncing off the wall, and frustrated and resentful.
>
> On one hand, I really want her to wean when she's ready. She seems to
> still need it somehow. I also want her to be able to remember nursing,
> and think of the warm sweet safe feelings that she seems to get. And
> most people don't remember much from this age. On the other hand...
> I've been doing this a long time. And I'm kind of tired of it.

I nursed Sam until he was about 4 y.o. He started Kindergarten then and
other things got more interesting for him I guess. Also: I really felt I
was "done" nursing him.

What we did:
When I felt it was enough for me I told him "no. I don't want you to
nurse right now. You can come and sit on my lap and we'll cuddle for a
bit, but no nursing." That worked most of the time. Sometimes he'd still
complain and nag me and depending on the situation I'd still end up
nursing for a little while (if he was really frustrated because he was
tired and couldn't wind down enough to go to sleep, if he was really
stressed out because of something and needed to wind down from that,...
Things where nothing but nursing and cuddling would work for him. Keep
in mind that Sam does have a perception problem though, so I guess that
figured in those problems as well)

Basically I nursed for comfort when he was feeling overwhelmed, or when
he hurt himself in some way and needed the comfort.
Keep in mind though that Sam didn't like cuddling or being held at all
for years because of his perception problems, he would only come to me
to nurse and that was the only time he'd actually like being held.

I think it's important to know when you've had enough, and it helps to
let your child know, too. Sam would accept my "no" if his need to nurse
wasn't urgent enough, and I'd accept his need to nurse if my "no" wasn't
urgent enough. We still had days with lots of nursing, but those were
usually stressfull times, so that was ok.
Right at the end I'd tell him no all the time, and he accepted it and
cuddled with me instead, but that was after a year of ergotherapy for
his perception problems and he was doing a lot better and now he
actually liked to cuddle, so that was a huge step for both of us, too.

I hope that helped, it got kind of long ;-)

take care
nicole

[Mum of Two]

I see no reason why you shouldn't place limits on nursing at that age. My 17
month old doesn't nurse as often as that, and I don't know how I'd handle it
if she did, I'm just no longer used to nursing that frequently.
Good luck with it. I don't think you need to wean entirely, especially if
you're going to have regrets about it - but you can certainly make it on
your terms.


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/

[[email protected]]

Hi Cathy,

Well, since mine made to to 5 1/2 and 6, I guess I should reply.
Except for Catherine Millington you are the longest term extended
nurser I remember beside Monika.

Cathy Weeks > writes:
: I always thought that I'd let Kivi self wean. She's now 2 days away
: from her 4th birthday, and showing NO sign of weaning. And in fact,
: she still seems to need it.

Sounds familiar.

: Our major breastfeedings each day are when we wake up, at naptime, and
: at bedtime, though when the latter happens, she doesn't nurse to sleep,
: and hasn't for about a year now. Nursing just quit having the power to
: make her fall asleep at night for whatever reason. She goes to sleep
: on her own (after getting a drink of water after nursing - and yes, her
: teeth are in excellent condition). She does still fall asleep for her
: nap with nursing though. Except if she's at a babysitter, or if her dad
: is putting her down (I'm away during the day or something).

: However, she still likes to nurse during the day from time to time, and
: still even has "nursy-days" where she wants to nurse a LOT. We don't
: really nurse when we are out in public.

Trying to remember "the end" with Clara and Niel, I think it was mostly
bedtime, wake-up, and "boo-boos". Both had stopped napping by that age.

: I get resentful of nursing on two occasions: on her nursy days, when
: they happen, and when I put her down for her nap, and we nurse and
: nurse and nurse and nurse and she just doesn't fall asleep
: (fortunately, that doesn't happen often). I just had that happen today
: - after laying with her and nurseing for more than 30 minutes, I'm just
: bouncing off the wall, and frustrated and resentful.

The "nursy days" part sounds familiar, but like I said, we were no longer
dealing with napping at that age. Maybe you can make the same kind of
arrangement you make with the counting. Or maybe she is ready to give
up the naps. This is a hard one to offer advice on at a distance.

: On one hand, I really want her to wean when she's ready. She seems to
: still need it somehow. I also want her to be able to remember nursing,
: and think of the warm sweet safe feelings that she seems to get. And
: most people don't remember much from this age. On the other hand...
: I've been doing this a long time. And I'm kind of tired of it.

Another thing that was a real help for Monika was "days off." She is
an avid hiker, so she would go out to the local wilderness for a day
of hiking while I took care of Clara and Niel.

: I'm thinking about doing a day-weaning where we limit nursing to JUST
: when we are in bed - when first waking up (which is arguably the most
: important to her) - she crawls into bed with me in the mornings, at
: nap, and before bed, and that's it.

: I don't know what I want - that's the hard part.

Yep. This is the hard part. I can tell you that when Monika talks
about the period when she WAS nursing, she is glad she let them both
self-wean. Yes it was hard at the time, but this time will never
come again.

: When she has a nursy day, we have methods to keep it from being too
: much for me - we negotiate a certain amount of time first - like I'll
: say "I can only do a counting nurse. Howabout a 5?" And she'll nurse
: until I count to five on each side, and then she happily goes on her
: way. And sometimes, she'll negotiate a higher number (yesterday it was
: 14).

This is what I was thinking of for naptime.

: Anyway - for those who have done extended nursing - tell me how you
: dealt with these things. My daughter for what it's worth, is an
: absolutely fearless child who LOVES people and knows no stranger. She's
: not scared of the dark, not scared of monsters, nothing really. She's
: not clingy really at all (except maybe on nursy days, and if there's
: something new to do, then that goes away). Very independent. I credit
: our extended nursing for at least part of that.

Yep. We can see it in Clara's a Niel's adventurousness, too. Hope I
have offered you a few additional ideas.

: Cathy Weeks

Glad to hear from you,
Larry

[Cathy Weeks]

wrote:
> Hi Cathy,
>
> Well, since mine made to to 5 1/2 and 6, I guess I should reply.
> Except for Catherine Millington you are the longest term extended
> nurser I remember beside Monika.

I know you once replied to Jenrose because she had exceeded that - she
nursed her older daughter until around 6. I tried to find the post,
but couldn't find the one in question - it was a kind of parenting
manifesto about why her older daughter is so great - nursing, not
having bedtimes, etc. It was a neat post, but I couldn't find it
anywhere.

Thanks for the post (and everyone else that has responded, too). I'm
back to being fine with nursing. I was just having a bad day. I really
would like to let her self-wean, but I guess I dont' really want to be
nursing til she's six and seven. That's starting to sound like a REALLY
long time. So, I'm just taking it one day at a time.

She still needs her naps, and *she* doesn't want to give them up, well,
not mostly anyway. But she, like everyone, has trouble falling asleep
sometimes.

I really only get resentful when she's after me all the time, or on
those occasions when I'm busy at work (I work from home) and I spend a
LONG time nursing her down. Fortunately, it's not too often.

Cathy

[PattyMomVA]

> wrote and I snipped:
>
> Well, since mine made to to 5 1/2 and 6, I guess I should reply.
> Except for Catherine Millington you are the longest term extended
> nurser I remember beside Monika.

I wonder what happened to *Charlotte*. Anyone still in touch with her?

BTW, DS nursed until his 4th b-day, and I remember several others on mkb who
went at least that long.

-Patty, mom of 1+2

[[email protected]]

PattyMomVA > writes:
: > wrote and I snipped:
:>
:> Well, since mine made to to 5 1/2 and 6, I guess I should reply.
:> Except for Catherine Millington you are the longest term extended
:> nurser I remember beside Monika.

: I wonder what happened to *Charlotte*. Anyone still in touch with her?

Sorry. I'm getting senile in my old age. At least I remembered her
last name. :-(

: BTW, DS nursed until his 4th b-day, and I remember several others on mkb who
: went at least that long.

: -Patty, mom of 1+2

Larry

[[email protected]]

DD1 is pretty outstanding. :)

Basically, my philosophy is to set whatever boundaries you need to set
in order to still feel "okay" about it. It doesn't have to be "fun" or
"fulfilling" but it shouldn't make you jump out of your skin either.

Sounds like nap-nursing may not be working so well and she needs to
find another way to nap. I found that Eric Carle's The Very Hungry
Caterpillar video worked wonders. Soothing, really boring, and quiet,
it almost never failed to put dd1 to sleep. But she gave up naps at age
2-ish.

There was a tremendous difference between how dd1 nursed at age 4 1/2
and how she nursed at age 5. At age 4, it was pretty much every day and
sometimes a couple times a day. At age 5, it was once a day, MAX and
usually more like a couple times a week. By 5 1/2, it was so infrequent
I barely remembered I was technically still "nursing" her.

If nursing her down is the problem, stop. Find something else that
works for that situation.

Jenrose
(not checking in very often, life has exploded on me.)