anyone exclusively feed by bottle EBM?

[oregonchick]

I have been so sick the last couple days my husband has been bottle feeding
EBM and I've been pumping every 3-4 hrs. It's just been so much easier this
way. I like the idea of mostly bottle feeding, but wonder if my supply will
maintain with this routine. What if we continue to bottle feed ebm at
night, but breastfeed during the day? Has anyone else done it successfully?

Betsy

[toypup]

"oregonchick" > wrote in message
...
>I have been so sick the last couple days my husband has been bottle feeding
>EBM and I've been pumping every 3-4 hrs. It's just been so much easier
>this way. I like the idea of mostly bottle feeding, but wonder if my
>supply will maintain with this routine. What if we continue to bottle feed
>ebm at night, but breastfeed during the day? Has anyone else done it
>successfully?

I had a friend who did it for about 6 months, then she stopped being able to
produce for the pump.

[JJ]

I have a friend who did it for a year. The baby had to stay in the
NICU for a week or two, and even though she pumped, and tried, the baby
never really liked nursing. She pumped and EBM'd for a year. I think
she would have preferred to nurse tho, it was kind of a hassle.
Especially when the airline lost her luggage (including pump) and she
had to find a Target open at 10 pm.

JJ

[JennP]

"oregonchick" > wrote in message
...
> I have been so sick the last couple days my husband has been bottle
feeding
> EBM and I've been pumping every 3-4 hrs. It's just been so much easier
this
> way. I like the idea of mostly bottle feeding, but wonder if my supply
will
> maintain with this routine. What if we continue to bottle feed ebm at
> night, but breastfeed during the day? Has anyone else done it
successfully?

Donna Metler did for her preemie daughter who couldn't latch properly after
birth. From her posts I gathered that it took patience, time, determination,
commitment among other things. I'm sure she'll post eventually.

I have a friend who ep'd for three months with each of her babies. She just
couldn't keep up and it was very exhausting for her personally.

Pumping ebm exclusively isn't something I'd do unless there were some kind
of issues where the baby couldn't otherwise get breastmilk.

I'm just wondering, what is it about breastfeeding that you are finding
difficult? Maybe we could help? IIRC, you have a newborn, right? At this
time it seems like all they do is nurse 24/7. Honestly it doesn't last
forever. Unless you are very diligent about pumping often then yes, your
supply will decrease.

It sounds like it's the nighttime that is bothering you. You could co-sleep
for a little while. I did with ds who was a VERY frequent night-nurser and I
slept through almost all feedings.
Is there anything we can do to help you?

JennP.

[Jess]

"A&G&K&H" > wrote in message
...
> Richard's wife Lily did for Michaela for quite some time I think. Richard
> doesn't seem to post here anymore (I guess Michaela weaned), but there's a
> few people who have done it I think.
> Amanda

I did and I think there's at least one more EPer here.

Jess

[A&G&K&H]

"oregonchick" > wrote in message
...
> I have been so sick the last couple days my husband has been bottle
feeding
> EBM and I've been pumping every 3-4 hrs. It's just been so much easier
this
> way. I like the idea of mostly bottle feeding, but wonder if my supply
will
> maintain with this routine. What if we continue to bottle feed ebm at
> night, but breastfeed during the day? Has anyone else done it
successfully?
>
> Betsy
>
>

Richard's wife Lily did for Michaela for quite some time I think. Richard
doesn't seem to post here anymore (I guess Michaela weaned), but there's a
few people who have done it I think.
Amanda

--
DD 15th August 2002
1 tiny angel Nov 2003
DS 20th August 2004

[oregonchick]

it is mostly the night time, plus I've been very sick with a high fever for
a few days. Emily has taken to feeding about every hour or so and I feel
like my boobs are hanging out all the time!

"JennP" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "oregonchick" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I have been so sick the last couple days my husband has been bottle
> feeding
>> EBM and I've been pumping every 3-4 hrs. It's just been so much easier
> this
>> way. I like the idea of mostly bottle feeding, but wonder if my supply
> will
>> maintain with this routine. What if we continue to bottle feed ebm at
>> night, but breastfeed during the day? Has anyone else done it
> successfully?
>
> Donna Metler did for her preemie daughter who couldn't latch properly
> after
> birth. From her posts I gathered that it took patience, time,
> determination,
> commitment among other things. I'm sure she'll post eventually.
>
> I have a friend who ep'd for three months with each of her babies. She
> just
> couldn't keep up and it was very exhausting for her personally.
>
> Pumping ebm exclusively isn't something I'd do unless there were some kind
> of issues where the baby couldn't otherwise get breastmilk.
>
> I'm just wondering, what is it about breastfeeding that you are finding
> difficult? Maybe we could help? IIRC, you have a newborn, right? At this
> time it seems like all they do is nurse 24/7. Honestly it doesn't last
> forever. Unless you are very diligent about pumping often then yes, your
> supply will decrease.
>
> It sounds like it's the nighttime that is bothering you. You could
> co-sleep
> for a little while. I did with ds who was a VERY frequent night-nurser and
> I
> slept through almost all feedings.
> Is there anything we can do to help you?
>
> JennP.
>
>

[JennP]

"oregonchick" > wrote in message
...
> it is mostly the night time, plus I've been very sick with a high fever
for
> a few days. Emily has taken to feeding about every hour or so and I feel
> like my boobs are hanging out all the time!

I can promise you that this *will not last forever*. I forget exactly how
old your baby is, but it will get better soon. *You* will get better soon
and it won't all seem so overwhelming. I promise. :)

I know that a few here have ep'd successfully, but not many would say that
it wasn't without enormous efforts. I'm not sure that feeding EBM is going
to solve what is going on with you right now and in fact, pumping may just
be one more thing to worry about. Try to wait it out a bit more.

I hope I've offered some encouragement.

JennP.

[Cocoamum]

A&G&K&H skrev:
> "oregonchick" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I have been so sick the last couple days my husband has been bottle
>
> feeding
>
>>EBM and I've been pumping every 3-4 hrs. It's just been so much easier
>
> this
>
>>way. I like the idea of mostly bottle feeding, but wonder if my supply
>
> will
>
>>maintain with this routine. What if we continue to bottle feed ebm at
>>night, but breastfeed during the day? Has anyone else done it
>
> successfully?
>
>>Betsy
>>
>>
>
>
> Richard's wife Lily did for Michaela for quite some time I think. Richard
> doesn't seem to post here anymore (I guess Michaela weaned), but there's a
> few people who have done it I think.
> Amanda
>
> --
> DD 15th August 2002
> 1 tiny angel Nov 2003
> DS 20th August 2004
>
>

Lily pumped for a full year.

He's not around much, but they are doing fine and Micaela is three years
old and beautiful.

Tine, Denmark (who have only seen pictures and e-mailed)

[VSalt]

I did it for almost 7 months. I didn;t stop because of my supply, just
had to...my nursing boobs were way too big and uncomfortable -- not to
mention the getting up every 3-4 hours was exhausting. Not that you
were ever gonna go to formula, but when transitioning to formula
(Nestle Good Start) I slowly mixed EBM and formula together.

HTH

[Legbuh]

We have for the past 3 months... basically from the 1st week when DD
wouldn't latch, stay latched or awake.

Been working great. No problem with keeping up! I think she's
overproducing. :)

We have a couple friends who did as well with no problems at all. Go
for it if it works!

[oregonchick]

"Legbuh" > wrote in message
...
> We have for the past 3 months... basically from the 1st week when DD
> wouldn't latch, stay latched or awake.
>
> Been working great. No problem with keeping up! I think she's
> overproducing. :)
>
> We have a couple friends who did as well with no problems at all. Go for
> it if it works!

I'm glad to hear it. So far, I'm very happy with the situation. Baby gets
breastmilk, we get the convenience of bottle OR breastfeeding, depending on
our needs at the moment. I was very glad to be able to bottle feed last
night, as Emily was hungry every hour last night. Being able to take turns
feeding with my husband made the night almost bearable!

Betsy

[Purple Gal]

Hi Betsy,

My baby boy is currently 5 weeks 4 days old. I've been following your
posts, but mainly lurking since the birth of my son. I have PCOS and my
milk supply never really came in... I do produce milk, but not enough to
feed the baby milk exclusively. Therefore, I have to pump... and his meals
are about 1/2 BM and 1/2 formula. I do BF too, but my milk is so slow, that
he gets upset and cries after about 10 mins on each breast most of the time.
Even during the rare times he latches for 20-30 mins on each breast, he will
still eat up 2-4 oz of formula after. Yes, my latch is good as I've been to
2 LCs to confirm this. I just don't produce a lot of milk no matter how
much I pump or BF. I've been taking blessed thistle and fenugren
(spelling?) for almost 2 weeks now to help with my supply but I've noticed
no difference... :(

One of the LC's told me that women with hormonal problems, like PCOS, can
tend to be low milk producers. When I read about your ability to pump 12 oz
in one sitting in an earlier post.... I got envious! I could never produce
more then 2-4 oz at a time MAX... The pumping has been a lifesaver for me.
Also, my DH and I take turns getting up at night... so I get to sleep up to
5-6 hours in a row at night. I pump every 3-4 hours during the day and at
least 1x at night during my turn. I rent the Medela Symphony, so I get to
pump both sides at the same time to save time.

Good luck,

Adela
..
By the way, I had mastitis when the baby was 2 weeks old... and it was
terrible. Thankfully, the regular pumping has kept it at bay.


"oregonchick" > wrote in message
...
>I have been so sick the last couple days my husband has been bottle feeding
>EBM and I've been pumping every 3-4 hrs. It's just been so much easier
>this way. I like the idea of mostly bottle feeding, but wonder if my
>supply will maintain with this routine. What if we continue to bottle feed
>ebm at night, but breastfeed during the day? Has anyone else done it
>successfully?
>
> Betsy
>

[Amy]

Purple Gal wrote:

> My baby boy is currently 5 weeks 4 days old. I've been following your
> posts, but mainly lurking since the birth of my son. I have PCOS and my
> milk supply never really came in... I do produce milk, but not enough to
> feed the baby milk exclusively.

How did you measure how much you're producing?

> Therefore, I have to pump... and his meals
> are about 1/2 BM and 1/2 formula. I do BF too, but my milk is so slow, that
> he gets upset and cries after about 10 mins on each breast most of the time.

Do you think that it may be because breastfeeding is more difficult
than eating from a bottle, and he's gotten used to the bottle? I
wonder if maybe if you just cut out the bottles (gradually) if he'd get
a stronger jaw and get better at it, and therefore be less frustrated?

> Even during the rare times he latches for 20-30 mins on each breast, he will
> still eat up 2-4 oz of formula after. Yes, my latch is good as I've been to
> 2 LCs to confirm this. I just don't produce a lot of milk no matter how
> much I pump or BF. I've been taking blessed thistle and fenugren
> (spelling?) for almost 2 weeks now to help with my supply but I've noticed
> no difference... :(

Have you tried Reglan? Can you get Domperidone where you are? Reglan
really worked for me! I took it with Fenugreek and Brewer's Yeast, and
I ate a metric ton of oatmeal.

> One of the LC's told me that women with hormonal problems, like PCOS, can
> tend to be low milk producers. When I read about your ability to pump 12 oz
> in one sitting in an earlier post.... I got envious! I could never produce
> more then 2-4 oz at a time MAX...

That's more than I have EVER pumped, and my baby is doing fine
exclusively breastfeeding - we just don't pump and I don't go anywhere
without her. According to Kellymom, it's normal to only be able to
pump 1/2 - 2 oz per pumping session from BOTH breasts
(http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/pumping_decrease.html). I was
expecting to be able to pump gallons, too, so I thought I had a
deficiency of milk when I could only get out enough to cover the bottom
of the bottle when I pumped (and it caused terrible pain). Nope, I'm
just pump resistant. It's getting better. There are times, now, when
she takes a long nap and I have to either wake her up or pump. That
NEVER happened in the beginning.

> The pumping has been a lifesaver for me.
> Also, my DH and I take turns getting up at night... so I get to sleep up to
> 5-6 hours in a row at night. I pump every 3-4 hours during the day and at
> least 1x at night during my turn. I rent the Medela Symphony, so I get to
> pump both sides at the same time to save time.

I do hope you'll consider what I've said, and maybe read at
Kellymom.com... Here are some pages that helped me:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/back-to-breast.html - HELP!
My baby won't nurse!

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/low-supply.html#supply - Is your milk
supply really low?

My concern is that you're going to lose your supply more and more as
you pump, and that you'll be feeding formula only by the time your
kiddo is 3 months old. This happened to a friend of mine, and it
sucked. Plus, you're currently going through all the pain in the ass
of breastfeeding (pumping, mainly) *and* all the pain in the ass of
bottlefeeding (mixing, sterilizing, etc.), and that's no fun. You're
not getting the convenience of either!

When I was where you are, I really believed that I had a low supply
because 1) my daughter wasn't back up to her birthweight until 4 weeks,
2) I never leaked, ever, 3) I never felt engorged, 4) I don't feel let
down. After getting my latch fixed (and I had more than two people
tell me it was fine, so beware. There are a lot of bad LCs out there),
I leaked through my shirt for the first time. After the Reglan, I felt
engorged for the first time. I still don't feel let down, but my
daughter's weight is back out of the scary range (from the 3rd
percentile according to the LLL breastfed babies chart! to the 25th
percentile according to the doctor's chart), and her growth otherwise
is normal (she has stayed in the 50th percentile for head circumference
and length), so I'm not worrying about it anymore. She's almost 5
months old, now, and she's awesome.

Basically, I just kept finding new LCs until something worked, and my
local LLL leader (the second one I talked to!) was the one who finally
figured us out. But I must have talked to 10 nurses and LCs in the
hospital, and my friend who's a post-partum nurse, and my own mother
who was a LLL Leader 30 years ago, and a host of nursing or recently
nursed mothers, all of whom said my latch was great (I think everyone
in town has seen my boobs). It was fixing my latch, taking the reglan
and the fenugreek, and relaxing that finally did it for me, I think. I
tried the Oxytocin nasal spray (owie!) but I didn't feel like it did
much.

I did supplement via SNS (mostly), but not enough that it made any
difference in her growth. I mainly gave her formula when people were
telling me that I was starving her, and I was too tired and post-partum
depressed to fight. Even the LC at the hospital told me to give her
formula. But around 3 months it all clicked, and now we're both doing
great. I wish the same for you.

One more question, and then I'll quit pestering you - do you think he
might be teething, and THAT could be what's causing him to fuss at the
breast? Stranger things have happened - I started teething when I was
6 weeks old.

Best,
Amy

[Donna Metler]

I EPed until 12 months, and currently pump twice a day, which covers my
daughter's morning and night feeds.

As far as building up supply via pumping, how often are you pumping? For the
first several months, I pumped every 2 hours with one 4 hour stretch of
sleep at night, and there were a lot of times I got maybe an ounce or so,
especially in the first month-and yes, I had to supplement with formula the
first few weeks as well. Skipping even one pumping cycle really hurt, and
was noticable for about the next day or so. Make sure you're drinking a ton
of water-and make sure you're getting enough calories (something my LC
really drummed into me, because at the time, I was so tired and worn down
with a new baby and recovering from PE and a C-section that I'd often be too
tired to even consider eating). I did take fenugreek and blessed thistle,
plus ate a lot of oatmeal cookies ;). As Alli started eating less often, I
was able to spread out the pumping cycles, but as long as she wasn't getting
solids, I needed at least 6 pumping cycles a day in order to keep up with
her demand, and that included at least one overnight. Once she started
eating solids and sleeping through the night, I was able to drop the
overnight pumping, since she was no longer eating as much as I was creating,
but it did cause a major drop in supply to do so.

Pumping is a nusiance, to say the least, but for me it was also something
very important-that even with a really rough pregnancy and delivery and a
premature baby, this was something I could control and could make sure I did
RIGHT.

--
Donna DeVore Metler
Orff Music Specialist/Kindermusik
Mother to Angel Brian Anthony 1/1/2002, 22 weeks, severe PE/HELLP
And Allison Joy, 11/25/04 (35 weeks, PIH, Pre-term labor)

[Purple Gal]

"Amy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Purple Gal wrote:
>
>> My baby boy is currently 5 weeks 4 days old. I've been following your
>> posts, but mainly lurking since the birth of my son. I have PCOS and my
>> milk supply never really came in... I do produce milk, but not enough to
>> feed the baby milk exclusively.
>
> How did you measure how much you're producing?

By how much I could pump vs how much he could eat vs how long he would stay
at breast before getting upset and how much he would eat after being at the
breast. My son was 9 lbs 2 oz when born and in the 75% percentile at his 2
week visit, so he is a very hungry and growing baby. He is almost 6 weeks
old and already in 3/6 month clothes. His next Dr. visit is at 8 weeks.

>> Therefore, I have to pump... and his meals
>> are about 1/2 BM and 1/2 formula. I do BF too, but my milk is so slow,
>> that
>> he gets upset and cries after about 10 mins on each breast most of the
>> time.
>
> Do you think that it may be because breastfeeding is more difficult
> than eating from a bottle, and he's gotten used to the bottle? I
> wonder if maybe if you just cut out the bottles (gradually) if he'd get
> a stronger jaw and get better at it, and therefore be less frustrated?

That is a possibility... but it will be impossible for me not to bottle feed
and bf. I am going back to work in 2 weeks and my husband will be a SAHD.
I won't be able to pump during the day.... so he will have to be bottle fed
and BF when I can (mornings and evening). I don't see the disadvantage of
pumping and bottle feeding him EBM and formula, as well as BF, in my case.

>> Even during the rare times he latches for 20-30 mins on each breast, he
>> will
>> still eat up 2-4 oz of formula after. Yes, my latch is good as I've been
>> to
>> 2 LCs to confirm this. I just don't produce a lot of milk no matter how
>> much I pump or BF. I've been taking blessed thistle and fenugren
>> (spelling?) for almost 2 weeks now to help with my supply but I've
>> noticed
>> no difference... :(
>
> Have you tried Reglan? Can you get Domperidone where you are? Reglan
> really worked for me! I took it with Fenugreek and Brewer's Yeast, and
> I ate a metric ton of oatmeal.

No... I didn't try that. I see my Dr on Tues and I will ask her about it.

>> One of the LC's told me that women with hormonal problems, like PCOS, can
>> tend to be low milk producers. When I read about your ability to pump 12
>> oz
>> in one sitting in an earlier post.... I got envious! I could never
>> produce
>> more then 2-4 oz at a time MAX...
>
> That's more than I have EVER pumped, and my baby is doing fine
> exclusively breastfeeding - we just don't pump and I don't go anywhere
> without her. According to Kellymom, it's normal to only be able to
> pump 1/2 - 2 oz per pumping session from BOTH breasts
> (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/pumping_decrease.html). I was
> expecting to be able to pump gallons, too, so I thought I had a
> deficiency of milk when I could only get out enough to cover the bottom
> of the bottle when I pumped (and it caused terrible pain). Nope, I'm
> just pump resistant. It's getting better. There are times, now, when
> she takes a long nap and I have to either wake her up or pump. That
> NEVER happened in the beginning.

Hmm pumping never caused me pain... but neither does BF. I've never had
cracked nipples or anything worse then a case of Mastitis 3 weeks ago. I'm
glad that exclusively BF works for you... but I don't see how it will work
for me in 2 weeks when I am back to work full time. My hubby working and me
staying home is an impossibility. Are you at SAHM?

>> The pumping has been a lifesaver for me.
>> Also, my DH and I take turns getting up at night... so I get to sleep up
>> to
>> 5-6 hours in a row at night. I pump every 3-4 hours during the day and
>> at
>> least 1x at night during my turn. I rent the Medela Symphony, so I get
>> to
>> pump both sides at the same time to save time.
>
> I do hope you'll consider what I've said, and maybe read at
> Kellymom.com... Here are some pages that helped me:
>
> http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/back-to-breast.html - HELP!
> My baby won't nurse!
>
> http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/low-supply.html#supply - Is your milk
> supply really low?

Thank you for the links... I'll check them out!

> My concern is that you're going to lose your supply more and more as
> you pump, and that you'll be feeding formula only by the time your
> kiddo is 3 months old. This happened to a friend of mine, and it
> sucked. Plus, you're currently going through all the pain in the ass
> of breastfeeding (pumping, mainly) *and* all the pain in the ass of
> bottlefeeding (mixing, sterilizing, etc.), and that's no fun. You're
> not getting the convenience of either!

I hope that doesn't happen! Seeing that I am still able to pump consistent
amounts for a month now... I don't think it will stop completely, but I
don't know for sure of course.

> When I was where you are, I really believed that I had a low supply
> because 1) my daughter wasn't back up to her birthweight until 4 weeks,
> 2) I never leaked, ever, 3) I never felt engorged, 4) I don't feel let
> down. After getting my latch fixed (and I had more than two people
> tell me it was fine, so beware. There are a lot of bad LCs out there),
> I leaked through my shirt for the first time. After the Reglan, I felt
> engorged for the first time. I still don't feel let down, but my
> daughter's weight is back out of the scary range (from the 3rd
> percentile according to the LLL breastfed babies chart! to the 25th
> percentile according to the doctor's chart), and her growth otherwise
> is normal (she has stayed in the 50th percentile for head circumference
> and length), so I'm not worrying about it anymore. She's almost 5
> months old, now, and she's awesome.

I've never felt let down either, at least anything I recognize as
letdown.... but I do leak and I do feel engorged. Ben was 9 lbs 2 oz when
born and 9 lbs 15 oz at his 2 week visit.... I think he is pushing 12 or 13
lbs now.

> Basically, I just kept finding new LCs until something worked, and my
> local LLL leader (the second one I talked to!) was the one who finally
> figured us out. But I must have talked to 10 nurses and LCs in the
> hospital, and my friend who's a post-partum nurse, and my own mother
> who was a LLL Leader 30 years ago, and a host of nursing or recently
> nursed mothers, all of whom said my latch was great (I think everyone
> in town has seen my boobs). It was fixing my latch, taking the reglan
> and the fenugreek, and relaxing that finally did it for me, I think. I
> tried the Oxytocin nasal spray (owie!) but I didn't feel like it did
> much.
>
> I did supplement via SNS (mostly), but not enough that it made any
> difference in her growth. I mainly gave her formula when people were
> telling me that I was starving her, and I was too tired and post-partum
> depressed to fight. Even the LC at the hospital told me to give her
> formula. But around 3 months it all clicked, and now we're both doing
> great. I wish the same for you.

Thank you so much.. I hope it works for me too. The LC at the hospital is
the one that told me that my milk wasn't coming in fast enough, due to the
size and need of my son... and started me on supplementing with formula and
pumping to help with supply. I often wonder if that screwed me up with BF?
I also have quite large breasts and they are hard to manage during BF. I
think they scare my son.

> One more question, and then I'll quit pestering you - do you think he
> might be teething, and THAT could be what's causing him to fuss at the
> breast? Stranger things have happened - I started teething when I was
> 6 weeks old.

That is a good question... I don't think that is the case. He shows no
other signs of teething....

thanks for your help and I am sorry for monopolizing Betsy's post!

Adela

>
> Best,
> Amy
>

[Purple Gal]

"Donna Metler" > wrote in message
. ..
>I EPed until 12 months, and currently pump twice a day, which covers my
> daughter's morning and night feeds.
>
> As far as building up supply via pumping, how often are you pumping? For
> the
> first several months, I pumped every 2 hours with one 4 hour stretch of
> sleep at night, and there were a lot of times I got maybe an ounce or so,
> especially in the first month-and yes, I had to supplement with formula
> the
> first few weeks as well. Skipping even one pumping cycle really hurt, and
> was noticable for about the next day or so. Make sure you're drinking a
> ton
> of water-and make sure you're getting enough calories (something my LC
> really drummed into me, because at the time, I was so tired and worn down
> with a new baby and recovering from PE and a C-section that I'd often be
> too
> tired to even consider eating). I did take fenugreek and blessed thistle,
> plus ate a lot of oatmeal cookies ;). As Alli started eating less often, I
> was able to spread out the pumping cycles, but as long as she wasn't
> getting
> solids, I needed at least 6 pumping cycles a day in order to keep up with
> her demand, and that included at least one overnight. Once she started
> eating solids and sleeping through the night, I was able to drop the
> overnight pumping, since she was no longer eating as much as I was
> creating,
> but it did cause a major drop in supply to do so.

I pump every 3-4 hours during the day and take about a 6 hour stretch at
night to sleep. I pump for 20-25 mins at a time. I produce between 15-20
oz in 24 hours on average. I also had a semi-emergency c-section that I am
still recovering from. I do drink a TON of water a day.... 12-18 8 oz
glasses... as well as juice and milk. I can't picture duing this every 2
hours... I don't see how you managed! The only reason I handle the monotony
it is because I pump in front of my tv and my baby. Watching him gives me
incentive and watching the tv keeps me from being bored.

> Pumping is a nusiance, to say the least, but for me it was also something
> very important-that even with a really rough pregnancy and delivery and a
> premature baby, this was something I could control and could make sure I
> did
> RIGHT.

I am glad it worked out for you.

Adela

>
> --
> Donna DeVore Metler
> Orff Music Specialist/Kindermusik
> Mother to Angel Brian Anthony 1/1/2002, 22 weeks, severe PE/HELLP
> And Allison Joy, 11/25/04 (35 weeks, PIH, Pre-term labor)
>
>

[Jess]

"Purple Gal" > wrote in message
...
>I can't picture duing this every 2 hours... I don't see how you managed!
>The only reason I handle the monotony it is because I pump in front of my
>tv and my baby.

I learned to play a computer game and hold the pumps with my forearm. :)

Jess

[Amy]

Purple Gal wrote:
> "Amy" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Purple Gal wrote:
> >
> >> My baby boy is currently 5 weeks 4 days old. I've been following your
> >> posts, but mainly lurking since the birth of my son. I have PCOS and my
> >> milk supply never really came in... I do produce milk, but not enough to
> >> feed the baby milk exclusively.
> >
> > How did you measure how much you're producing?
>
> By how much I could pump vs how much he could eat vs how long he would stay
> at breast before getting upset and how much he would eat after being at the
> breast.

Ok, it's not unusual for a baby to be able to take in a couple ounces
of formula after a breastfeed, even if they have gotten enough.
Haven't you ever eaten, then gone back for seconds, then realized later
that you would've been perfectly satisfied without the seconds? It
takes like 20 minutes for our brains to get the "full" message from our
stomachs - which is why people who tend to eat fast tend to be more
overweight than people who eat slowly (I have tried and tried to eat
slower, and I just can't do it... So, I make myself wait 20 minutes
before I go back for seconds. That seems to work... Anyway...).
Babies do the same thing. I don't think that his eating after a feed
is a good measure of your supply. I've read similar on Kellymom, and
have been told this by my LLL Leader/LC.

Also, you can't be sure whether he's upset at the breast because it's
harder work than the bottle, or because he's not getting enough.

And we've already discussed how 1/2-2 oz per pumping session is the
normal amount, and the Dairy Fairies who can produce 8 ounces per
breast per pumping session are just showing off... :)

> My son was 9 lbs 2 oz when born and in the 75% percentile at his 2
> week visit, so he is a very hungry and growing baby.

Sounds like he's very healthy! I think it's too bad that someone along
the way made you feel like you weren't making enough for him.

> He is almost 6 weeks
> old and already in 3/6 month clothes. His next Dr. visit is at 8 weeks.

Wow. He's a big boy! Mine is almost 5 months, and still fits into
some of her newborn clothes. People sure come in lots of shapes and
sizes, don't we?

> > Do you think that it may be because breastfeeding is more difficult
> > than eating from a bottle, and he's gotten used to the bottle? I
> > wonder if maybe if you just cut out the bottles (gradually) if he'd get
> > a stronger jaw and get better at it, and therefore be less frustrated?
>
> That is a possibility... but it will be impossible for me not to bottle feed
> and bf. I am going back to work in 2 weeks and my husband will be a SAHD.

Ah, well that clutters things up a bit, doesn't it?

> I won't be able to pump during the day....

Really? Not at all? God, I would pop. Do you have a hand pump to
take with you just in case? Pumping discreetly in a bathroom somewhere
seems like a better plan, to me, than leaking through your shirt! Have
you talked to your boss about two 15 minute pumping breaks during the
day? Isn't there some law that requires that you be allowed to pump
(in the US at least)?

> so he will have to be bottle fed
> and BF when I can (mornings and evening). I don't see the disadvantage of
> pumping and bottle feeding him EBM and formula, as well as BF, in my case.

True, in your situation you're kind of stuck. I assumed you were a
SAHM. Sorry.

> > Have you tried Reglan? Can you get Domperidone where you are? Reglan
> > really worked for me! I took it with Fenugreek and Brewer's Yeast, and
> > I ate a metric ton of oatmeal.
>
> No... I didn't try that. I see my Dr on Tues and I will ask her about it.

It may help keep your supply up, which would be good in your situation.
It can cause depression, though, so be aware of that and be careful.

> Hmm pumping never caused me pain... but neither does BF.

Oh, my God, I thought the electric pump was going to take my boobs
right off. I can't imagine pumping multiple times every day. I only
do it when the nap has gone on too long, and I can't take another
second, and I only do it long enough to pump off the pressure. I use
an Avent Isis, too. Those electric things are beastly. Maybe I have
goofy anatomy. I've always been sensitive in that area, anyway.

> I've never had
> cracked nipples or anything worse then a case of Mastitis 3 weeks ago. I'm
> glad that exclusively BF works for you... but I don't see how it will work
> for me in 2 weeks when I am back to work full time. My hubby working and me
> staying home is an impossibility. Are you at SAHM?

I think it's totally neat that your husband gets to stay home. I am a
WAHM - I work part time for my husband (and had a ton of fun joking
about how the boss knocked me up when I was pregnant! :) ). My cousin
is a SAHD. My husband was just saying, today, how hard it's going to
be to go back to work, having been home with us the past few days. In
fact, he's thinking about working from home more often, because he
enjoys being here with us so much more. Can't say that I mind that,
it's nice to have the company!! :)

> > My concern is that you're going to lose your supply more and more as
> > you pump, and that you'll be feeding formula only by the time your
> > kiddo is 3 months old. This happened to a friend of mine, and it
> > sucked. Plus, you're currently going through all the pain in the ass
> > of breastfeeding (pumping, mainly) *and* all the pain in the ass of
> > bottlefeeding (mixing, sterilizing, etc.), and that's no fun. You're
> > not getting the convenience of either!
>
> I hope that doesn't happen! Seeing that I am still able to pump consistent
> amounts for a month now... I don't think it will stop completely, but I
> don't know for sure of course.

Well, if it starts to taper off, I'd go with reglan. Also, oatmeal -
but be smarter than I was and take it in cookie form, instead of in
breakfast cereal form! (That never occurred to me - duh!). And
fenugreek can help, too, but you have to take tons.

I'm so glad for your son that you are finding a way to give him
breastmilk. Every drop counts, and he'll be better for it. Who knows,
maybe the Reglan will turn you into a Dairy Fairy, and you'll be able
to produce enough in the evenings to feed your boy during the day.

> I've never felt let down either, at least anything I recognize as
> letdown.... but I do leak and I do feel engorged. Ben was 9 lbs 2 oz when
> born and 9 lbs 15 oz at his 2 week visit.... I think he is pushing 12 or 13
> lbs now.

HOLY MOLY! Mine is almost 5 months old, and she was only 12 lb. 1 1/2
oz. on December 12 (her last appointment). Are you sure you're not
OVER feeding him? LOL!

How old was he when you were instructed to pump and supplement, just
out of curiousity?

> > I wish the same for you.
>
> Thank you so much.. I hope it works for me too. The LC at the hospital is
> the one that told me that my milk wasn't coming in fast enough, due to the
> size and need of my son... and started me on supplementing with formula and
> pumping to help with supply. I often wonder if that screwed me up with BF?

Well, I wasn't there, but I'd say so. If he never got lower than the
75th percentile, what on earth made her think that he wasn't getting
enough, aside from size? Behavior? Who's to say? You did the best
you could with the information you had at the time, and hindsight is
20/20, and we all just stumble through this and hope for the best, when
it comes down to it.

Oddly enough, the LC at the hospital told me to pump and supplement
too, but I told her that my mom would kill me if I did! Hahhaa... I
did later, but that's another story. It was only when I heard her
little stomach growling right after a feed that I decided that I
couldn't "starve" her anymore (and that was probably just gas!).
Either way, she let the formula drip right out the side of her mouth.
She knew what she wanted...

> I also have quite large breasts and they are hard to manage during BF. I
> think they scare my son.

I have a friend who had the same problem - I suggested to her that she
take a sharpie and draw smiley faces on them to make them less scary,
but she didn't think that would look quite right under a light shirt.
:)

> > One more question, and then I'll quit pestering you - do you think he
> > might be teething, and THAT could be what's causing him to fuss at the
> > breast? Stranger things have happened - I started teething when I was
> > 6 weeks old.
>
> That is a good question... I don't think that is the case. He shows no
> other signs of teething....
>
> thanks for your help and I am sorry for monopolizing Betsy's post!

You bet! I hope I wasn't too much of a nuisance... Your post just
sounded so much like me at 5 weeks - unsure of my supply, etc. - and I
wanted to share what I learned with you.

It sure sounds to me like your son is thriving.

Best,
Amy

[[email protected]]

Purple Gal wrote:

> One of the LC's told me that women with hormonal problems, like PCOS, can
> tend to be low milk producers. When I read about your ability to pump 12 oz
> in one sitting in an earlier post.... I got envious! I could never produce
> more then 2-4 oz at a time MAX...

Honestly, y'all are pumping a boatload. I maxed out at 40 ml from both
breasts with a Medela Lactina, and then things went downhill. By the
end of the first week I was pumping for half an hour every three hours
and producing less than 20 ml combined. That never got better -- I had
classic pump resistance.

I was able to juggle work around DS and DH, so he was exclusively
breastfed for 6 months and is still nursing, but I was only able to
feed EBM for the first week or so (which came in handy, 'cause he was
in NICU, but he did get formula in NICU because I couldn't pump enough
to keep up with a 34 week preemie.)

--
C, mama to three year old nursling

[Purple Gal]

"Amy" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Purple Gal wrote:
>> "Amy" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>
> Ok, it's not unusual for a baby to be able to take in a couple ounces
> of formula after a breastfeed, even if they have gotten enough.
> Haven't you ever eaten, then gone back for seconds, then realized later
> that you would've been perfectly satisfied without the seconds? It
> takes like 20 minutes for our brains to get the "full" message from our
> stomachs - which is why people who tend to eat fast tend to be more
> overweight than people who eat slowly (I have tried and tried to eat
> slower, and I just can't do it... So, I make myself wait 20 minutes
> before I go back for seconds. That seems to work... Anyway...).
> Babies do the same thing. I don't think that his eating after a feed
> is a good measure of your supply. I've read similar on Kellymom, and
> have been told this by my LLL Leader/LC.

That is a great suggestion... I will try to wait it out for 20 mins.

> Also, you can't be sure whether he's upset at the breast because it's
> harder work than the bottle, or because he's not getting enough.

I thought I was sure until I've been participating in this thread.

> Sounds like he's very healthy! I think it's too bad that someone along
> the way made you feel like you weren't making enough for him.

The LC at the hospital did that to me.... They saw how the baby was
struggling to feed after latching and had me supplement with formula and
start on a pump to bring up supply... I was exhausted and just had a
c-section, so wasn't thinking clearly and just kept up the habit.


> Wow. He's a big boy! Mine is almost 5 months, and still fits into
> some of her newborn clothes. People sure come in lots of shapes and
> sizes, don't we?

Yes... My DH is 6'3 and I am 5'9 and the baby was born at 39 weeks 6
days..... I didn't expect to have a small baby.

>> I won't be able to pump during the day....
>
> Really? Not at all? God, I would pop. Do you have a hand pump to
> take with you just in case? Pumping discreetly in a bathroom somewhere
> seems like a better plan, to me, than leaking through your shirt! Have
> you talked to your boss about two 15 minute pumping breaks during the
> day? Isn't there some law that requires that you be allowed to pump
> (in the US at least)?

Ok... well I don't have an office, I work in a cube. I also work in a busy
profession where I am lucky to get a bathroom break. I've talked to my boss
about bringing my pump and pumping in the supply room.... but I don't know
how that will work. I am just assuming that it won't work out. I also live
about 15 mins from work, so maybe I can run home during lunch... I don't
know what I will do yet... I just plan for the worse case scenerio...

>> so he will have to be bottle fed
>> and BF when I can (mornings and evening). I don't see the disadvantage
>> of
>> pumping and bottle feeding him EBM and formula, as well as BF, in my
>> case.
>
>> Hmm pumping never caused me pain... but neither does BF.
>
> Oh, my God, I thought the electric pump was going to take my boobs
> right off. I can't imagine pumping multiple times every day. I only
> do it when the nap has gone on too long, and I can't take another
> second, and I only do it long enough to pump off the pressure. I use
> an Avent Isis, too. Those electric things are beastly. Maybe I have
> goofy anatomy. I've always been sensitive in that area, anyway.

My nipples have never been really sensitive and they don't hurt when I pump
at the highest level with the symphony. I remember the LC telling me that
the top setting will take my nipples off, but it doesn't even bother me!

> I think it's totally neat that your husband gets to stay home. I am a
> WAHM - I work part time for my husband (and had a ton of fun joking
> about how the boss knocked me up when I was pregnant! :) ). My cousin
> is a SAHD. My husband was just saying, today, how hard it's going to
> be to go back to work, having been home with us the past few days. In
> fact, he's thinking about working from home more often, because he
> enjoys being here with us so much more. Can't say that I mind that,
> it's nice to have the company!! :)

I would love to be a WAHM.... but as things stand, this is how it will have
to be structured. It makes me very sad knowing that I'll be back to work in
2 weeks and missing out on spending time with my son during the weekday. I
have a higher earning potential then my DH and this is the only way we can
afford to keep things going. He is going to be a SAHD for at least the
first 6 months of Ben's life... after that, we'll re-evaluate the situation
and consider day care.

>> I hope that doesn't happen! Seeing that I am still able to pump
>> consistent
>> amounts for a month now... I don't think it will stop completely, but I
>> don't know for sure of course.
>
> Well, if it starts to taper off, I'd go with reglan. Also, oatmeal -
> but be smarter than I was and take it in cookie form, instead of in
> breakfast cereal form! (That never occurred to me - duh!). And
> fenugreek can help, too, but you have to take tons.

Well I'm already on Fenugreek and Blessed Thistle... and I love hot oatmeal,
so maybe I'll eat that more. I don't remember reading that oatmeal can help
with supply until this thread. Good thing that I love it so much.

> I'm so glad for your son that you are finding a way to give him
> breastmilk. Every drop counts, and he'll be better for it. Who knows,
> maybe the Reglan will turn you into a Dairy Fairy, and you'll be able
> to produce enough in the evenings to feed your boy during the day.

Or maybe I'll work out a way to get to pump at least once during the
day....I'll try my best.

>> I've never felt let down either, at least anything I recognize as
>> letdown.... but I do leak and I do feel engorged. Ben was 9 lbs 2 oz
>> when
>> born and 9 lbs 15 oz at his 2 week visit.... I think he is pushing 12 or
>> 13
>> lbs now.
>
> HOLY MOLY! Mine is almost 5 months old, and she was only 12 lb. 1 1/2
> oz. on December 12 (her last appointment). Are you sure you're not
> OVER feeding him? LOL!

The doctor was very happy with his weight gain at 2 weeks and said it wasn't
abnormal due to his size when born. I don't think we overfeed him.... !!

>> Thank you so much.. I hope it works for me too. The LC at the hospital
>> is
>> the one that told me that my milk wasn't coming in fast enough, due to
>> the
>> size and need of my son... and started me on supplementing with formula
>> and
>> pumping to help with supply. I often wonder if that screwed me up with
>> BF?
>
> Well, I wasn't there, but I'd say so. If he never got lower than the
> 75th percentile, what on earth made her think that he wasn't getting
> enough, aside from size? Behavior? Who's to say? You did the best
> you could with the information you had at the time, and hindsight is
> 20/20, and we all just stumble through this and hope for the best, when
> it comes down to it.

Behavior.... and from what the LC told me and the fact that I do have PCOS
and have had hormonal problems all of my life. It was a struggle getting
pregnant as I suffered years of infertility issues.

> Oddly enough, the LC at the hospital told me to pump and supplement
> too, but I told her that my mom would kill me if I did! Hahhaa... I
> did later, but that's another story. It was only when I heard her
> little stomach growling right after a feed that I decided that I
> couldn't "starve" her anymore (and that was probably just gas!).
> Either way, she let the formula drip right out the side of her mouth.
> She knew what she wanted...

Do you think the hospital has something worked out with the formula
companies to try to push their formula?

>> I also have quite large breasts and they are hard to manage during BF. I
>> think they scare my son.
>
> I have a friend who had the same problem - I suggested to her that she
> take a sharpie and draw smiley faces on them to make them less scary,
> but she didn't think that would look quite right under a light shirt.

Ha... seriously, they are huge and pendulous (44FF right now). I have to be
careful that I don't suffocate Ben when I feed him....

> You bet! I hope I wasn't too much of a nuisance... Your post just
> sounded so much like me at 5 weeks - unsure of my supply, etc. - and I
> wanted to share what I learned with you.
>
> It sure sounds to me like your son is thriving.

Thank you for your advice... I appreciate it!

>
> Best,
> Amy
>

[PattyMomVA]

"Purple Gal" wrote and I snipped:
>
> Ok... well I don't have an office, I work in a cube. I also work in a
> busy
> profession where I am lucky to get a bathroom break. I've talked to my
> boss
> about bringing my pump and pumping in the supply room.... but I don't know
> how that will work. I am just assuming that it won't work out. I also
> live
> about 15 mins from work, so maybe I can run home during lunch... I don't
> know what I will do yet... I just plan for the worse case scenerio...

Maybe your DH can bring your baby to you at lunch. It can be part of a
daily outing for the 2 of them, and it will save you on the commute time.

HTH,
-Patty, mom of 1+2

[Jess]

> wrote in message ...
> And every time you scored the jackpot, you would get a bit letdown!

Nope, every time I conquered the world or sent the shuttle to Alpha Centauri
I'd get another letdown. ;)

Jess

[[email protected]]

Jess > writes:

: "Purple Gal" > wrote in message
: ...
:>I can't picture duing this every 2 hours... I don't see how you managed!
:>The only reason I handle the monotony it is because I pump in front of my
:>tv and my baby.

: I learned to play a computer game and hold the pumps with my forearm. :)

: Jess

And every time you scored the jackpot, you would get a bit letdown!

Whoosh,
Larry

[Purple Gal]

Maybe.... but the only place I could feed baby is in an uncomfy chair in
supply room... so I don't think it will work... thanks for your idea
though...

Adela

"PattyMomVA" > wrote in message
...
> "Purple Gal" wrote and I snipped:
>>
>> Ok... well I don't have an office, I work in a cube. I also work in a
>> busy
>> profession where I am lucky to get a bathroom break. I've talked to my
>> boss
>> about bringing my pump and pumping in the supply room.... but I don't
>> know
>> how that will work. I am just assuming that it won't work out. I also
>> live
>> about 15 mins from work, so maybe I can run home during lunch... I don't
>> know what I will do yet... I just plan for the worse case scenerio...
>
> Maybe your DH can bring your baby to you at lunch. It can be part of a
> daily outing for the 2 of them, and it will save you on the commute time.
>
> HTH,
> -Patty, mom of 1+2
>
>