Question about sling/attachment parenting (long, sorry)

[Vijay]

Hi. As a first-time mom of an extremely intense high-needs baby, I am
in need of advice from some more experienced moms. I like the sound of
attachment parenting, and it makes sense to me, I just haven't been
able to apply it totally in my daily routine. DH is adamant about not
co-sleeping and I have to respect that, even though I wouldn't mind.
We always respond to her cries right away, and it seems like one of us
is always holding her. We feed her on demand.

I have a sling (an over the shoulder baby holder) and I use it when
nothing else seems to calm my fussy baby. I keep reading that you're
just supposed to wear your baby all day long, but I haven't been able
to do that for several reasons.

1- Can't put her down in the sling once she falls alseep without her
waking up screaming. Trust me, I know that in theory you're supposed
to be able to do this, but I can't. I can't even sit down or she wakes
up. She's one of those babies that just forces you to keep moving or
else. It's very tiring for me. I knew parenting was going to be hard,
but this is ridiculous. I am a mess physically and emotionally from
this child. I have absolutely nothing left to offer anyone at the end
of each day, not even DH.

2- It's hot. I keep my house at 74 all summer and we're still both
drenched in sweat. She doesn't seem to mind it, but she sweats so much
I'm worried she'll get dehydrated. It's worse of course when we go
outside where it's 80-90 and muggy, so I end up staying in the house
all day every day and I'm going insane. She HATES the stroller, and I
keep getting blocked ducts when I use the snugli.

3- I can't get anything done with her in the sling and she screams
when I put her down anywhere, even in a swing or bouncy seat right
next to me. She is 3 months old, and although she is good at holding
her head up, she cannot sit up unassisted and this limits the
positions we can use with the sling. I can't get anything done because
if she is lying down in the sling, I can't get close enough to stuff
to use it (sink, counter, etc.). If she is sitting up facing forward,
I have to steady her with one hand and then what good is having one
hand free? All I can do is type one handed (while bouncing on an
exercise ball or she hollers) or pace and talk on the phone or dangle
a toy for her entertainment. When will she be old enough to wear on my
back? Will I have to buy a different sling or backpack for that or can
I use my current one?

4- I worry about her legs being scrunched. I followed the "facing
forward" instructions to the letter (legs crossed) and she seems
comfortable, but her legs look so smushed by the fabric of the sling.
Can it be good for her to be so folded in on herself? I know she was
smushed in the womb, but I don't know if there was THAT much pressure
on her legs.

5- When she fusses in the sling, I don't know why. Is she
uncomfortable? Hot? Bored? Overstimulated? Hungry? I end up offering
her a bottle every 5 minutes (which seems like it may be a bad habit
to get into). I thought babies were supposed to fuss less when you
carry them everywhere? She seems marginally more content than when she
is propped on her boppy pillow, or in a bouncy seat but not
dramatically happier. She is just so fussy all the time! I am so
drained! I wish I knew what the heck is wrong with her. She doesn't
seem gassy, and it's too early for her to be teething. It's a mystery.

6- I can't pump with her in the sling. I am working on increasing my
supply (supplementing with formula until it gets back to normal) and
this requires that I double pump often throughout the day which I
can't do with her in the sling. Before any of you suggest it, let me
add that I've tried letting her nurse on demand: she has a very weak
suck and tends to fall asleep after less than 5 minutes, so this is
not a strategy that will help my milk supply increase. I think my low
supply and my underactive MER are the reasons why she is
bored/frustrated with nursing and that once I am back to a normal
level she will be happier nursing.

Is there anyone out there who actually wears their baby all day long?
Do you have any tips or encouragement for me? I want to do what is
best for my baby, but I need to do what's right for me too or I'll go
nuts.

Thanks,

-V.

[Marie]

On 1 Sep 2003 18:48:15 -0700, (Vijay) wrote:

>Hi. As a first-time mom of an extremely intense high-needs baby,

I have one of those :o) She is my third, which was quite a shock to me
because I *knew* what to expect but this sure wasn't it!

>I am
>in need of advice from some more experienced moms. I like the sound of
>attachment parenting, and it makes sense to me, I just haven't been
>able to apply it totally in my daily routine. DH is adamant about not
>co-sleeping and I have to respect that, even though I wouldn't mind.

To be honest, my daughter actually sleeps longer when she isn't
sleeping with me! Up until she was about 4-5 months there was no
difference but the older she got the worse it was in bed.

>We always respond to her cries right away, and it seems like one of us
>is always holding her. We feed her on demand.
>
>I have a sling (an over the shoulder baby holder) and I use it when
>nothing else seems to calm my fussy baby. I keep reading that you're
>just supposed to wear your baby all day long, but I haven't been able
>to do that for several reasons.
>
>1- Can't put her down in the sling once she falls alseep without her
>waking up screaming. Trust me, I know that in theory you're supposed
>to be able to do this, but I can't. I can't even sit down or she wakes
>up. She's one of those babies that just forces you to keep moving or
>else. It's very tiring for me. I knew parenting was going to be hard,
>but this is ridiculous. I am a mess physically and emotionally from
>this child. I have absolutely nothing left to offer anyone at the end
>of each day, not even DH.

Where you do put her down, in a crib? My daughter will *not* sleep in
a crib for anything. She always woke up before I even got her whole
body past the top of the rail when laying her down! Once she couldn't
sleep alone on my bed (rolling...) I had to fix her up a place in the
floor. When she falls asleep I just carry her in my bedroom and flop
her down on her place in the floor lol. Really, she actually sleeps so
much better! It's odd, because I have to get on my knees to lay her
down and all that bouncing doesn't wake her, but the act of lowering
her into a crib did). Try a different place for her to sleep and see.
It could be something as simple as your movements, your muscles
tightening as you move yourself, having to lift her up before you lay
her down...it could be anything.
Mine also had to be in constant motion, it is very tiring I agree.

>2- It's hot. I keep my house at 74 all summer and we're still both
>drenched in sweat. She doesn't seem to mind it, but she sweats so much
>I'm worried she'll get dehydrated. It's worse of course when we go
>outside where it's 80-90 and muggy, so I end up staying in the house
>all day every day and I'm going insane. She HATES the stroller, and I
>keep getting blocked ducts when I use the snugli.

I had two sweaters, especially when they ate. I just gave up on the
sling, it was so hot and bulky and I couldn't figure it out anyway. I
didn't get hotter using the Snugli thougoh. Have you tried the Snugli
with her facing front, would that put as much pressure on your chest?
My daughter lived in the Snugli facing forwards from 3 months until
her thighs got too fat for it to fit anymore. (and I really wish I had
one that would fit her still!)

>3- I can't get anything done with her in the sling and she screams
>when I put her down anywhere, even in a swing or bouncy seat right
>next to me.

It can feel awful can't it!

>She is 3 months old, and although she is good at holding
>her head up, she cannot sit up unassisted and this limits the
>positions we can use with the sling. I can't get anything done because
>if she is lying down in the sling, I can't get close enough to stuff
>to use it (sink, counter, etc.). If she is sitting up facing forward,
>I have to steady her with one hand and then what good is having one
>hand free? All I can do is type one handed (while bouncing on an
>exercise ball or she hollers) or pace and talk on the phone or dangle
>a toy for her entertainment. When will she be old enough to wear on my
>back? Will I have to buy a different sling or backpack for that or can
>I use my current one?

I can't help you here, sorry. I never felt comfortable wearing her on
my back.

>4- I worry about her legs being scrunched. I followed the "facing
>forward" instructions to the letter (legs crossed) and she seems
>comfortable, but her legs look so smushed by the fabric of the sling.
>Can it be good for her to be so folded in on herself? I know she was
>smushed in the womb, but I don't know if there was THAT much pressure
>on her legs.

I wondered about that myself also.

>5- When she fusses in the sling, I don't know why. Is she
>uncomfortable? Hot? Bored? Overstimulated? Hungry? I end up offering
>her a bottle every 5 minutes (which seems like it may be a bad habit
>to get into). I thought babies were supposed to fuss less when you
>carry them everywhere? She seems marginally more content than when she
>is propped on her boppy pillow, or in a bouncy seat but not
>dramatically happier. She is just so fussy all the time! I am so
>drained! I wish I knew what the heck is wrong with her. She doesn't
>seem gassy, and it's too early for her to be teething. It's a mystery.

It's not too early for teething, I had one daughter have two teeth
come in at 2 months and another had two at 4 months. So don't rule it
out. Also the fussiness could be part of the high needs.

>6- I can't pump with her in the sling. I am working on increasing my
>supply (supplementing with formula until it gets back to normal) and
>this requires that I double pump often throughout the day which I
>can't do with her in the sling. Before any of you suggest it, let me
>add that I've tried letting her nurse on demand: she has a very weak
>suck and tends to fall asleep after less than 5 minutes, so this is
>not a strategy that will help my milk supply increase. I think my low
>supply and my underactive MER are the reasons why she is
>bored/frustrated with nursing and that once I am back to a normal
>level she will be happier nursing.
>Is there anyone out there who actually wears their baby all day long?
>Do you have any tips or encouragement for me? I want to do what is
>best for my baby, but I need to do what's right for me too or I'll go
>nuts.

I can give you some encouragement. Have you read anything about high
needs babies? I have read that though they are fussy and it can be
hard to handle them, they can also be very playful and smart. My
high-needs baby is almost 11 months old (!), and she is the funniest
most playful baby I've had or been around. She is always on the go,
but she is so playful. It seems like she makes up for the hard part by
being sweet and fun. Now this didn't start as early as 3 months
(though she did smile alot even as a tiny baby) but she grew into it.
It has been so hard, and I have cried so much looking around at the
messy house we moved into when she was 3 months old that didn't get
unpacked until she was 8 months old (another "!" but you understand
I'm sure!) and not being able to take a shower or cook dinner without
her screaming and choking and getting hysterical. See I was expecting
a little of my firstborn and a little of my second born, I *knew* what
babies were like. I never in my life imagined that a baby could be so
demanding and clingy. I believe if she had been my first baby I'd
never have wanted another one. But remember not all babies are
high-needs (and they must be rare because you sure don't hear of
people talking about it!)
Well I hope I've helped somehow! I feel for you, I know it's hard. I'm
glad mine's not 3 months anymore LOL It *does* get easier.
Marie

[Al Bell]

(Vijay) writes:

Has the pediatrician checked your daughter carefully for things
like an ear infection or a urinary tract infection, or maybe chronic
hunger related to your milk supply issues?

I thought for a few weeks that I had a fussy baby, then discovered that I
had a very good but very hungry baby who desperately needed a few ounces
of formula each day.

>3- I can't get anything done with her in the sling and she screams
>when I put her down anywhere, even in a swing or bouncy seat right
>next to me.

I think (as the mother of a 10.5 month old) that it's pretty normal for
any mom who avoids letting her baby cry a lot to get anything done.
Basically, you have a choice: focus on your baby and let your husband (or
paid help) worry about the cooking and cleaning, or have a baby who spends
some time in a crib or playpen crying each day. Most of our moms let us
cry some each day, and we turned out OK, so that's a valid choice, but
letting your husband bring home deli food is also a valid choice.

Also, 3-month-olds are very cute, but they're certainly not easy.

>4- I worry about her legs being scrunched. I followed the "facing
>forward" instructions to the letter (legs crossed) and she seems
>comfortable, but her legs look so smushed by the fabric of the sling.

I think that, in general, if she's having problems, she'll let you know.

>5- When she fusses in the sling, I don't know why. Is she
>uncomfortable? Hot? Bored? Overstimulated? Hungry? I end up offering
>her a bottle every 5 minutes (which seems like it may be a bad habit
>to get into).

If you have a choice, I think you'd be better off offering her the breast
every 5 minutes. Breastmilk has baby morphine in it and it's probably a
lot more calming than formula.

>6- I can't pump with her in the sling. I
am working on increasing
my >supply (supplementing with formula until it gets back to normal)

Are you sure that the formula you're using suits your baby? Maybe you need
to try another type of formula.

>supply and my underactive MER are the reasons why she is
>bored/frustrated with nursing and that once I am back to a normal
>level she will be happier nursing.

I hated the Medela Supplemental Nursing System, but maybe it would help
you escape double pumping but continue to work on building your supply.

>Is there anyone out there who actually wears their baby all day long?

I did.

a) Don't think it's good for your back.
b) Don't expect to get anything done other than, maybe, computer work.
c) Make sure you can use the remote control to watch what you want to
watch on TV.

[Jenrose]

"Vijay" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi. As a first-time mom of an extremely intense high-needs baby, I am
> in need of advice from some more experienced moms. I like the sound of
> attachment parenting, and it makes sense to me, I just haven't been
> able to apply it totally in my daily routine. DH is adamant about not
> co-sleeping and I have to respect that, even though I wouldn't mind.
> We always respond to her cries right away, and it seems like one of us
> is always holding her. We feed her on demand.
>
The important thing about attachment parenting is to use it as it makes
sense to you and as it works for your life. Don't do it just so you can say,
"I'm doing AP!" Do it if and because it works for you.

RE co-sleeping... I found that when I didn't co-sleep, my kid wanted to be
on my body all the time during the day. If I did co-sleep, she was more
content to be put down now and then.


> I have a sling (an over the shoulder baby holder) and I use it when
> nothing else seems to calm my fussy baby. I keep reading that you're
> just supposed to wear your baby all day long, but I haven't been able
> to do that for several reasons.
>

I'm one of the most die-hard sling fanatics I know (you should see my
stash...) and *I* don't carry/wear babies all day long. I wear a SLING all
day long, but baby is in and out of sling, carseat, other people's arms,
etc. when I've got a baby around.

> 1- Can't put her down in the sling once she falls alseep without her
> waking up screaming. Trust me, I know that in theory you're supposed
> to be able to do this, but I can't. I can't even sit down or she wakes
> up. She's one of those babies that just forces you to keep moving or
> else. It's very tiring for me. I knew parenting was going to be hard,
> but this is ridiculous. I am a mess physically and emotionally from
> this child. I have absolutely nothing left to offer anyone at the end
> of each day, not even DH.
>

Here's my take on this... sometimes you just don't offer what you can't
give. If you can't be moving constantly, just don't. Sometimes she'll cry.
If you're holding her and talking to her gently and she's fed and dry and
otherwise good to go, sometimes it's okay for her to cry a bit. You're not
abandoning her. You're not traumatizing her. You're simply saying, "I can
hold you right now (and you might hold/rock her) but I'm too tired to get up
and move around right now. We're going to sit for a bit. I'm sorry if you're
not happy, but right now, this is what we're doing. Kids usually figure it
out. I am NOT one to walk constantly with kids. I just don't. I'll rock them
and I may stay in motion a lot while sitting down, but I'm a writer and I
*have* to sit to write. I'm happy to have baby on my chest when I do that,
but I'm not going to try to write and walk at the same time.


> 2- It's hot. I keep my house at 74 all summer and we're still both
> drenched in sweat. She doesn't seem to mind it, but she sweats so much
> I'm worried she'll get dehydrated. It's worse of course when we go
> outside where it's 80-90 and muggy, so I end up staying in the house
> all day every day and I'm going insane. She HATES the stroller, and I
> keep getting blocked ducts when I use the snugli.
>
Sounds like you need a different sling. There are lots and lots and lots of
options. See below.

> 3- I can't get anything done with her in the sling and she screams
> when I put her down anywhere, even in a swing or bouncy seat right
> next to me. She is 3 months old, and although she is good at holding
> her head up, she cannot sit up unassisted and this limits the
> positions we can use with the sling. I can't get anything done because
> if she is lying down in the sling, I can't get close enough to stuff
> to use it (sink, counter, etc.). If she is sitting up facing forward,
> I have to steady her with one hand and then what good is having one
> hand free? All I can do is type one handed (while bouncing on an
> exercise ball or she hollers) or pace and talk on the phone or dangle
> a toy for her entertainment. When will she be old enough to wear on my
> back? Will I have to buy a different sling or backpack for that or can
> I use my current one?
>
Definitely sounds like you need a new sling.

You've got the Cadillac of padded baby slings...but like many Caddies, it's
oversized and not terribly efficient in some ways. I'm not fond of padded
slings in general myself. Why? Because they tend to enforce positions which
are NOT positions parents would adopt naturally. How many parents naturally
carry their kids so low that they bump into counters? How many parents
naturally carry their kids crosslegged facing out?

So here are some ideas for slings which might meet your needs.

Criteria: You need a sling you can wear constantly.
You need a sling which puts baby high enough in a variety of positions that
you can get stuff done while she's in it.
You need a sling that you can get baby into and out of frequently and easily
without a lot of fuss.
You need a sling which can be worn snug
You need a sling which will last you through the next 3+years of parenting a
high needs kid.

General categories of slings, and how they do or don't meet these criteria:
Starting with what you have: Padded slings: Too hot to wear constantly.
Difficult to get adjusted properly to get baby high enough and in good
positions for getting work done while having two free hands. In and out is
probably okay. Snug is not working, most likely. Sling *could* last 3 years,
but probably won't once you try something else.

Pouch-style carriers: These have the "poppable" feature--you can easily pop
baby in and out at will. But you need to get a pouch which fits you and/or
you need a very adjustable one. Maya Pouches (new adjustable ones) and
Kangaroo Korner (fleece and cotton stretchy pouches with snaps) might work
well for you. You can use the positions you're already used to, but higher
and closer to you. BUT... the KK cotton pouch is not recommended as a
primary pouch and the fleece pouch is hot. I'll be getting a pair of them in
the next couple weeks to try them out in person--my info at present is from
the manufacturer, not my personal experience. The Maya adjustable pouches
are good, but probably not quite as versatile as you might like in the long
run, and the side-to-side stability in the Kangaroo (facing out cross
legged) pose is not greatly improved in these.

Wraparound carriers. These are long pieces of very nice fabric which wrap
around and around to support baby in many positions with weight usually
distributed over both shoulders. GREAT for wearing a baby for a long
time...but take a little work getting in and out. Not quite as "poppable" as
the pouches, as they take more work getting into. One wraparound, the
Ultimate Baby Wrap, is superior in this regard, as once you have it on you
can get baby in and out often without retying the wrap. But the UBW is a
little bouncy. Your kiddo may love it--she likes to move. But as she gets
heavier you will find that she tends to ride lower unless you make the
carrier quite tight. This is an incredible carrier for 24/7 carrying of high
needs babies, but a little less ideal for heavier babies, IMO. Other wraps
include the Didymos, Girasol, Ellaroo (See www.peppermint.com and
www.kangarookorner.com for more on fabric slings like this).

Unpadded ring slings. These are my favorites in general. Why? You can wear
them with or without baby in them for hours without discomfort. They're some
of the prettiest slings out there. They do not feel like baby furniture, but
mom clothing, much as pouches do. And yet, they are still very adjustable
and you can easily make them as high and tight as you want, then quickly let
the sling out for baby to nurse or to set baby down in a carseat, for
example. The choices are many... the silk Zolowear (www.zolowear.com) is
drop dead gorgeous. Many people say this is the most comfortable sling
they've tried, but there are some it just doesn't work for, as with most
carriers. The rings are a bit heavy on this one.
The Maya Wrap is another perennial favorite--the shoulder is different from
the Zolo and again, people either love the shoulder or they hate it.
(www.mayawrap.com) These are also gorgeous, but in a different way--more
ethnic/earthy and less asian/chic. The PeaPod sling is a very cheap
alternative--yet another shoulder design, simple unbleached or hand-dyed
muslin fabric, nylon rings. A good one to "try out" how you like unpadded
slings, but due to largish rings and fairly slick fabric, not great for
heavy babies. How do these fit your criteria?

If you get the right one, you'll be able to wear it constantly. You will
definitely be able to wear baby high and tight and the sling will last in
most cases until you are no longer needed to carry your baby everywhere.
I've carried a 10-year-old in a sling a short distance before--aside from
the PeaPod, most are stronger than you are and can support more weight than
you'd ever want to carry. In and out is usually a snap with ring slings, and
snug is not an issue when they're unpadded. Take out the padding and they're
much cooler. Plus, they are SO much "Mom clothing" that you can and will
wear them without the baby in...which means they're right there when you
need them.

So here's one more option.. The MamaBaby (see www.midwiferytoday.com to buy
and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/babywearing to see photos of the slings
(photo section) and the instructions (file section)) is an unpadded ring
sling, but unlike most others, they're usually sold in pairs and you wear
one sling over each shoulder, so they cross. This means less side-to-side
tip-over in the Kangaroo carry, and more options... for example, I've done a
colic hold with this. For doing dishes, I would snuggle a baby high on my
chest with the rings down at my hips--I've done this several times and it
works great. No bumpage on counters. I've also carried a 4-year-old easily
on my back, using one sling and two slings crossed. In most holds, this is
as good as any other carrier, though many individual carriers may outshine
it in one particular hold or another. But this one can do almost anything
you want it to. I will confess to bias--this *is* my baby--I designed the
system for when I was taking my foster baby to work everyday as a newborn,
and it worked so well for us and he loved it so much that his adoptive
mother kept right on using it. I found that I would often wear just one
sling while I wasn't moving much, then toss a second one on for stability
when we were up and active for a long period.

> 4- I worry about her legs being scrunched. I followed the "facing
> forward" instructions to the letter (legs crossed) and she seems
> comfortable, but her legs look so smushed by the fabric of the sling.
> Can it be good for her to be so folded in on herself? I know she was
> smushed in the womb, but I don't know if there was THAT much pressure
> on her legs.
>

Eh. I'm not wild about the kangaroo carry for the same reason, but the
babies seem to love it! In wraparounds and the MamaBaby you can get her legs
pointing forwards rather than scrunched, so they stick out but she's still
well supported.

> 5- When she fusses in the sling, I don't know why. Is she
> uncomfortable? Hot? Bored? Overstimulated? Hungry? I end up offering
> her a bottle every 5 minutes (which seems like it may be a bad habit
> to get into). I thought babies were supposed to fuss less when you
> carry them everywhere? She seems marginally more content than when she
> is propped on her boppy pillow, or in a bouncy seat but not
> dramatically happier. She is just so fussy all the time! I am so
> drained! I wish I knew what the heck is wrong with her. She doesn't
> seem gassy, and it's too early for her to be teething. It's a mystery.
>

Let's see: Hot: Is she flushed? Sweaty? Are you comfortable? She should be
wearing about the same number of layers of warmth as you are wearing in
general. Are you hot?

Bored: Eh, I don't worry about this one. Never really have.

Overstimulated: Most babies when overstimulated will look away, cry, hiccup,
sleep or otherwise disengage themselves from an overstimulating environment.
What is going on when she's fussy?

Offering bottle... if you're giving bottles, consider offering a pacifier
first. If she latches to the pacifier and sucks strongly but then spits it
out and cries, she's probably hungry. If she doens't bother mouthing it
even, she's probably not hungry.

I find that parental attitude can greatly influence baby. The more wound up
YOU get, the more wound up she will get. This does not mean her fussiness is
your fault, just that in my experience, the more frantically you search for
"the cure", the more upset she can get. I like to have a series of steps I
know I will go through... if baby sounds like she's in pain, I do check for
poky or irritating clothing/diapers, feel her tummy for gas, try for a burp,
try a pacifier or the breast, try a bottle or the breast (depending if I'm
nursing or not), and bounce baby/talk soothingly/sing. But once I've done
all that, I don't keep going back over the list for a while. Sometimes
babies cry no matter what you do, and all you can do is just hold them, rock
them and say, "There, there." Know that it's not your fault she's crying.
Know that she's not doing it to "get" you. Know that what separates good
parents from bad parents... Almost all parents think at some point, "Throw
the baby out the window. I'm just going to throw the baby out the window."
Good parents *don't* throw the baby out the window even when they think
about it. Bad parents throw the baby out the window. You haven't done it,
and I'm sure she's deserved it <g>, and that makes you a great parent in my
book.

> 6- I can't pump with her in the sling. I am working on increasing my
> supply (supplementing with formula until it gets back to normal) and
> this requires that I double pump often throughout the day which I
> can't do with her in the sling. Before any of you suggest it, let me
> add that I've tried letting her nurse on demand: she has a very weak
> suck and tends to fall asleep after less than 5 minutes, so this is
> not a strategy that will help my milk supply increase. I think my low
> supply and my underactive MER are the reasons why she is
> bored/frustrated with nursing and that once I am back to a normal
> level she will be happier nursing.
>

This is a whole 'nother issue. With baby in this situation I would ditch all
bottles and all pacifiers, get some help in and go to bed with her for a
couple days, co-sleeping is not the issue here, but constant access to the
breast is. Quit trying to walk around the house with her constantly--your
helper can walk her a little, but mostly you want her to lie next you you
next to the breast and nurse more or less constantly for a couple days. So
what if she falls asleep after 5 minutes? That's better than crying... and
chances are she'll wake up shortly and try again. And again. And enough of
those 5-minuteses and she gets more the hang of it. Supplement if you must,
but do it with a cup, spoon or dropper, NOT a bottle. And with her in the
bed next to you and falling asleep at the boob, you can pump right after she
nurses. One hint... if you've got an electric pump, try latching her on and
then pumping on one side while she nurse--your letdown will be stronger and
faster than with just her or just the pump. You could even "prime" the
breast with the breastpump and latch her on as soon as you're flowing well,
continuing to pump on the side she's not nursing on. But going to bed with
her for a couple days (24-48 hours is the usual rec.) may make a HUGE
difference. In your energy level, milk supply, quality of latch, etc. If you
do this on a weekend with hubby as your helper, he can do the walkies--all
YOU have to do is cuddle baby, nurse on demand, pump as necessary, and get
up to pee. He should bring you meals in bed, and if necessary, he should
sleep on the couch. We're not talking the rest of her babyhood, but a couple
of critical days that could turn things around for you.

Jenrose

[Hope]

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 07:12:45 GMT, "Jenrose" >
wrote:


> the KK cotton pouch is not recommended as a
>primary pouch and the fleece pouch is hot. I'll be getting a pair of them in
>the next couple weeks to try them out in person--my info at present is from
>the manufacturer, not my personal experience.

FWIW I bought a fleece KK pouch, and it was very nice but WAY too hot
for my sweaty summer baby. I gave it to a lady in a colder climate
and she loves it.

I also just wanted to add my 2c for the OP- that my daughter was very
similar to yours- she didn't start to be willing to 'detach' from me
til she was about 4-5 months old- *calendar* months, not 4-week months
btw. She wouldn't even look at me. Just slept, nursed and cried
(mostly nursing and crying). I wore her constantly, all summer in
an unpadded cotton sling. I would latch her on to the breast and just
walk around with her nursing (she wanted to nurse all the time too).
I do co-sleep, or I would be dead now from exhaustion. Anyway, she
gradually changed and now at 8 months is a joyful, engaged, crawling,
standing delightful girl. I never could have imagined such a change,
so hang in there!!! Find a sling that works for you, learn to nurse
in it. Remember to breathe ;-).


Hope

--
Riley 1993 c/s
Tara 2002 HBAC
http://www.babyslings-australia.com

[Nikki]

Vijay wrote:

> I have a sling (an over the shoulder baby holder) and I use it when
> nothing else seems to calm my fussy baby.

I had this sling as well and never got the hang of it. Like you, it was
very hot, and it just didn't work. If I have another baby I would try a
maya wrap pouch. I can't really recommend it as I've never tried it but it
looks cool :-)

> 1- Can't put her down in the sling once she falls alseep without her
> waking up screaming.

I couldn't set Hunter down from anywhere, from any position or he'd wake up.
I could transfer him from myself to dh. We did this quite a bit in the
beginning and I just didn't get a lot done that first year.

She's one of those babies that just forces you to keep moving or
> else. It's very tiring for me.

You can only do what you can do. If need to sit, sit down and try to
comfort her. A crying baby that is not being ignored is not the end of the
world. She isn't going to be permanently traumatized. She has a loving
parent with her, she is just unhappy.

> 3- I can't get anything done with her

Honestly, I didn't get much done for a very long time. Try to pick the
biggies and work on them but some things are just going to be let go :-(

She is 3 months old, and although she is good at holding
> her head up,

I got a back pack with Luke and started using it at around 3 months. This
was just a god send because I could do anything with him in the backpack and
he was happy. I had a cruddy second hand one but if you can afford a new
one...the most important feature IMO would be one that would evenly
distribute the weight so it doesn't hurt your back. Others might know what
that would be :-)

> 5- When she fusses in the sling, I don't know why. Is she
> uncomfortable? Hot? Bored? Overstimulated? Hungry? I end up offering
> her a bottle every 5 minutes (which seems like it may be a bad habit
> to get into). I thought babies were supposed to fuss less when you
> carry them everywhere?

Could be to hot, or to cramped. Could also be to overstimulated or tired.
Hunter was the one that I couldn't sit down but Luke would get fussy and it
took me awhile to figure out that he just needed to be left alone so he
could fall asleep. If you think she is tired you may try just laying on the
bed next to her and see if she'll fall asleep lying there after 5-10
minutes. If she is still really crying after 10 minutes you might make a
change. Luke liked the peaceful planets aquarium at that age, or any
relaxing music.

>She is just so fussy all the time!

I'd mention it to her doctor. I don't know anything about formula but maybe
something isn't agreeing with her. Has she recently had a cold? If so
getting her ears checked might be a good idea. If their ears hurt they
aren't going to like laying down. When Hunter would get overly tired and
miserable at around 3-4 months I used Hylands Teething tablets. They
allowed him to relax and then fall asleep. He got 4 teeth at 4 months.

> Is there anyone out there who actually wears their baby all day long?

I carried Hunter constantly. No sling. I could transfer him on to dh for
naps and this was a godsend.

Also, you need sleep. Sleeping with a baby helps get sleep at this age.
Later on I couldn't sleep through the nursing sessions but in the beginning
it really helped. If your dh doesn't want to co-sleep perhaps you and the
baby could sleep seperatly for a little while or part of the night.

Good luck!

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

[SuperEeyore]

Nikki wrote:
> Vijay wrote:
>> 5- When she fusses in the sling, I don't know why. Is she
>> uncomfortable? Hot? Bored? Overstimulated? Hungry? I end up offering
>> her a bottle every 5 minutes (which seems like it may be a bad habit
>> to get into). I thought babies were supposed to fuss less when you
>> carry them everywhere?
>
> Could be to hot, or to cramped. Could also be to overstimulated or
> tired. Hunter was the one that I couldn't sit down but Luke would get
> fussy and it took me awhile to figure out that he just needed to be
> left alone so he could fall asleep. If you think she is tired you
> may try just laying on the bed next to her and see if she'll fall
> asleep lying there after 5-10 minutes. If she is still really crying
> after 10 minutes you might make a change. Luke liked the peaceful
> planets aquarium at that age, or any relaxing music.
>
> >She is just so fussy all the time!
>
> I'd mention it to her doctor. I don't know anything about formula
> but maybe something isn't agreeing with her. Has she recently had a
> cold? If so getting her ears checked might be a good idea. If their
> ears hurt they aren't going to like laying down. When Hunter would
> get overly tired and miserable at around 3-4 months I used Hylands
> Teething tablets. They allowed him to relax and then fall asleep.
> He got 4 teeth at 4 months.

No one has mentioned this really but you do imply that you are nursing... it
sounds like the three month growth spurt to me. Those growth spurts feeding
wise always seeme to amplify my frustrated feelings regarding everything
else.

Laurel

[Stephanie]

First disclaimer. I do NOT follow AP or any other "parenting
technique" to the letter. This would be my first advice. Do what works
for you and yours.


(Vijay) wrote in message >...
> Hi. As a first-time mom of an extremely intense high-needs baby, I am
> in need of advice from some more experienced moms. I like the sound of
> attachment parenting, and it makes sense to me, I just haven't been
> able to apply it totally in my daily routine. DH is adamant about not
> co-sleeping and I have to respect that, even though I wouldn't mind.
> We always respond to her cries right away, and it seems like one of us
> is always holding her. We feed her on demand.
>
> I have a sling (an over the shoulder baby holder) and I use it when
> nothing else seems to calm my fussy baby. I keep reading that you're
> just supposed to wear your baby all day long, but I haven't been able
> to do that for several reasons.
>


As I say, supposed-to-schmosed to. Pitch the book. Do what works for
you.

> 1- Can't put her down in the sling once she falls alseep without her
> waking up screaming. Trust me, I know that in theory you're supposed
> to be able to do this, but I can't. I can't even sit down or she wakes
> up. She's one of those babies that just forces you to keep moving or
> else. It's very tiring for me. I knew parenting was going to be hard,
> but this is ridiculous. I am a mess physically and emotionally from
> this child. I have absolutely nothing left to offer anyone at the end
> of each day, not even DH.
>


I have 2 things to say on this. One, I do not know how old your baby
is, but it sounds like she is little. So, aside from offering DH
smiles and whatever conversation you can muster, do not worry about
offering him anything. Right now you worry about your baby. And two.
Worry about you, too. If you are a mess physically and emotionally,
consider yourself in less position to well care for your baby. That
makes it feel less selfish when, in fact, you have needs too. So sit
down. Hold your baby and coo at her. Feed her if she is hungry. But in
my opinion, if you are there for her, you needn't literally kill
yourself. Sit down and take a break. Either she will continue to cry
until you are ready to walk again, or she will finally settle down and
slowly figure out that this sitting thing is not so bad.



> 2- It's hot. I keep my house at 74 all summer and we're still both
> drenched in sweat. She doesn't seem to mind it, but she sweats so much
> I'm worried she'll get dehydrated. It's worse of course when we go
> outside where it's 80-90 and muggy, so I end up staying in the house
> all day every day and I'm going insane. She HATES the stroller, and I
> keep getting blocked ducts when I use the snugli.
>


Can't comment, really. I mostly just carried my son in my arms.

> 3- I can't get anything done with her in the sling and she screams
> when I put her down anywhere, even in a swing or bouncy seat right
> next to me. She is 3 months old, and although she is good at holding
> her head up, she cannot sit up unassisted and this limits the
> positions we can use with the sling. I can't get anything done because
> if she is lying down in the sling, I can't get close enough to stuff
> to use it (sink, counter, etc.). If she is sitting up facing forward,
> I have to steady her with one hand and then what good is having one
> hand free? All I can do is type one handed (while bouncing on an
> exercise ball or she hollers) or pace and talk on the phone or dangle
> a toy for her entertainment. When will she be old enough to wear on my
> back? Will I have to buy a different sling or backpack for that or can
> I use my current one?
>

I have a thought. Could the idea of carrying your baby around in the
sling become a goal in itself, instead of what is best for you and
her? A 3 month old will often have an attention span. Not much, but a
little. So you can play with her rather than just carry her around in
the sling. If you play with her for whatever attention span she will
maintain, you are building up her interest in the world and putting
them into the bank. So over time, she will see things outside of
comfort from you as interesting. At first, you do not reap much in the
way of rewards since a 3 month old attention span is pretty short. But
over time it does improve.

That said, what does responding instantly to your child? For some
folks, this means doing whatever is necessary come hell or high water
to stop crying from happening. This is not my opinion. If she is
crying, you can sit with her and stroke her without picking her up or
see if she is interested in a toy. She will know you are there and not
deserting her. Basically allow her to cry for a short time to see if
something else besides comfort is at issue. I am not by any means
saying that there is anything wrong with picking up your baby. But you
said you are tired, so I thought other ideas might be helpful.

> 4- I worry about her legs being scrunched. I followed the "facing
> forward" instructions to the letter (legs crossed) and she seems
> comfortable, but her legs look so smushed by the fabric of the sling.
> Can it be good for her to be so folded in on herself? I know she was
> smushed in the womb, but I don't know if there was THAT much pressure
> on her legs.
>
> 5- When she fusses in the sling, I don't know why. Is she
> uncomfortable? Hot? Bored? Overstimulated? Hungry? I end up offering
> her a bottle every 5 minutes (which seems like it may be a bad habit
> to get into). I thought babies were supposed to fuss less when you
> carry them everywhere?


Each baby is different. My son hated his sling. By three months he
would be bored out of his little baby mind if I carried him in a sling
all the time. Maybe, like my son, your daughter is just brilliant and
engaged in her surroundings and full of her own opinions! (Trying to
be optimistic here.)


> She seems marginally more content than when she
> is propped on her boppy pillow, or in a bouncy seat but not
> dramatically happier. She is just so fussy all the time! I am so
> drained! I wish I knew what the heck is wrong with her. She doesn't
> seem gassy, and it's too early for her to be teething. It's a mystery.
>


Well if it is "colic" - the light is at the end of the tunnel.
Apparently most colic starts to ebb by about 3 months.

> 6- I can't pump with her in the sling. I am working on increasing my
> supply (supplementing with formula until it gets back to normal) and
> this requires that I double pump often throughout the day which I
> can't do with her in the sling. Before any of you suggest it, let me
> add that I've tried letting her nurse on demand: she has a very weak
> suck and tends to fall asleep after less than 5 minutes, so this is
> not a strategy that will help my milk supply increase. I think my low
> supply and my underactive MER are the reasons why she is
> bored/frustrated with nursing and that once I am back to a normal
> level she will be happier nursing.
>

Have you been over to misc.kids.breastfeeding for all the best advice
on getting nursing? I know that nursing was the number one way to make
DS happy when he was that age. It is more than just food. But then
again, if she is too tired, it sounds like it is frustrating her. If
you want breastfeeding help, misc.kids.breastfeeding is the place to
go.

> Is there anyone out there who actually wears their baby all day long?
> Do you have any tips or encouragement for me? I want to do what is
> best for my baby, but I need to do what's right for me too or I'll go
> nuts.
>


And no guilt. I am speaking from my recollection of 3 months old. I
felt guilty every time my needs seemed in conflict with DS's. Babies
require that their needs be met. But very often they are more flexible
than we give them credit for in how we meet them. As a matter of fact,
if you are feeling emotionally bad, and who wouldn't with what you
have been through, your baby may be feeling some negative vibes.


> Thanks,
>
> -V.

[Ericka Kammerer]

Al Bell wrote:


> I think (as the mother of a 10.5 month old) that it's pretty normal for
> any mom who avoids letting her baby cry a lot to get anything done.
> Basically, you have a choice: focus on your baby and let your husband (or
> paid help) worry about the cooking and cleaning, or have a baby who spends
> some time in a crib or playpen crying each day. Most of our moms let us
> cry some each day, and we turned out OK, so that's a valid choice, but
> letting your husband bring home deli food is also a valid choice.


Hmm...I dunno. I'm all for hiring out whatever would
be helpful and taking advantaage of takeout and other time
(and energy) savers. However, I don't think it's normal
for a baby to have to be held every single second in order
not to be crying. Some babies *are* that way, and you
obviously have to deal with the baby you have, not some
idealized baby. But if you're dealing with a baby who
absolutely doesn't give you any breaks at all, I think
you're got a more demanding than usual baby! Not that
that helps much, I suppose, except that maybe it helps
to know that what you're dealing with is harder than
what many parents have to deal with. I was lucky. My
babies were quite content to amuse themselves on their
own for a little bit while I ran a load of laundry or
started dinner or attended to various other tasks. I
don't think it was necessarily anything I *did* that
made them that way. They just were that way, and
lucky for me. I don't presume to compare my situation
with someone who has a more demanding baby. That's a
much harder job. I've *never* had to let a baby cry,
nor did my mother, in order to get basic stuff done.
Sometimes it's a bit tricky, but planning and a little
extra lead time usually suffices to ensure I can get done
whatever needs doing.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[Nikki]

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
> Al Bell wrote:
>
>
>> I think (as the mother of a 10.5 month old) that it's pretty normal
>> for any mom who avoids letting her baby cry a lot to get anything
>> done. Basically, you have a choice: focus on your baby and let your
>> husband (or paid help) worry about the cooking and cleaning, or have
>> a baby who spends some time in a crib or playpen crying each day.
>> Most of our moms let us cry some each day, and we turned out OK, so
>> that's a valid choice, but letting your husband bring home deli food
>> is also a valid choice.
>
>
> Hmm...I dunno. I'm all for hiring out whatever would
> be helpful and taking advantaage of takeout and other time
> (and energy) savers. However, I don't think it's normal
> for a baby to have to be held every single second in order
> not to be crying. Some babies *are* that way, and you
> obviously have to deal with the baby you have, not some
> idealized baby. But if you're dealing with a baby who
> absolutely doesn't give you any breaks at all, I think
> you're got a more demanding than usual baby!

Good point. Hunter gave no breaks. If I carried or nursed him he was fine
though so I thought I had an easy baby. Imagine my delight when Luke was
more typical! He napped, I could lay him down, he'd sit for 10-15 minutes
and just look around. Wow, Hunter is lucky he was #1, Lol.

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

[Vijay]

Thank you all so much for your amazing messages. You each said things
that really helped. I am going to try to address the major issues that
I am facing that you all helped me with.

Re: slings. Thanks for all of the detailed advice! I am really going
to give baby wearing a try. I just need to find a way that I can wear
her more comfortably for long periods or I need to perfect setting her
down in the sling once she's asleep. I've tried getting her to sleep
and then putting her in the cradle -- which doesn't work. (I think the
lifting her over the rails is indeed probably what wakes her). I also
tried putting her in the middle of my king size bed but inevitably she
moves around and gets ****ed off when part of the sling covers her
face. So rather than get her to sleep in the sling I usually just
swaddle her and then I can set her down more easily. This works fine
when she goes to sleep fairly quickly, but if she fights it (as she
often does, especially during the day) my arms get very tired. So I
thought the sling might help her fall asleep and it does, but then I
have to wear her until she wakes up.

This wouldn't be a problem with a different sling I think, so I am
doing some research. (Thanks for the tips!) I am thinking about
removing some or all of the padding from the OTSBH so that I can get
it really snug around her. I'd love to carry her upright, chest to
chest and I think she'd like it too, but because of the padded rails I
can't get the sling tight enough currently. I am also thinking about
the Ultimate Baby Wrap. I like the idea that it is stretchy and goes
over both shoulders. It's just that I bought the Nojo, and now the
OTSBH, and a stroller, and a snugli! Where does it end??? All of the
different designs and fabrics have their own appeal and it's hard to
say definitively what is the best sling until you've tried them all. I
guess I'm on my way!

Re: high needs babies: I have been reading up on high-needs babies
ever since I found my way to the Sears website and figured out that
Charlotte fits 11 of the 12 criteria (the one that she didn't fit is
that she doesn't mind being held by others besides me and DH – as long
as she's being held!). I've been trying all of the tips that I read in
the Fussy Baby Book by Sears and some work great. She loves to be
swaddled tightly and cradled in my arms while I bounce on my exercise
ball and sing to her or make a shushing sound. It sounds like a lot of
things going on at once, but it works so I just go with it! 90% of the
time that's how I get her to sleep. Sometimes with a pacifier,
sometimes without. She lets me know! She is very opinionated and moody
already. It does help to think, "Won't it be great when she is able to
sit up on her own?" Because she hates being propped in a reclining
position so I end up holding her upright all day on my knee.

When I have my next kid, do you think I'll get an easier one? It's
nice to know that there are other people out there dealing with babies
like this. I wonder what makes them the way they are? Is it genetic?
Something during pregnancy? Something during first weeks of life? None
of those reasons really explains why you can have one or more "normal"
babies and then suddenly have a high-needs baby. I guess we just have
to cope as best we can without worrying about the "whys." My ped said
also that sensitive babies like Charlotte turn into great children and
adults who are very smart, creative, humorous, imaginative, and
empathetic toward others. So I have that to look forward to.

My pediatrician has not checked her for ear or urinary infections.
Besides fussiness, are there other signs? I seem to remember my
younger sister would get ear infections a lot as an infant and would
tug at her ear all the time. Charlotte only tugs on her ears if she's
overtired and unswaddled as a method to keep herself awake. Would she
pee more or less than normal if she had a bladder infection? Would it
have a particular color or smell? Right now she pees a LOT and it's
faint yellow and has a faint pee smell.

Re: breastmilk: I think it must be true about breastmilk having baby
morphine in it. I managed to pump more than usual yesterday morning
and after she drank it she took a really long nap propped next to me
on the couch with pillows. While she was sleeping I pumped some more.
She ended up sleeping from 1pm to 6pm waking only to guzzle a bottle
and not opening her eyes and slipping right back into sleep without
any heroics on my part. Sometimes I had to give her formula, but it
was such a great day! She usually only takes 15-30 minute naps and
only with a great deal of effort on my part to get her to just GIVE IT
UP and go to sleep! I think she must be going through a MAJOR growth
spurt, because she hasn't had any attention span at all these past few
days and she has been eating a lot more than usual. I wish I had been
keeping track. Usually she'll stay up and play for 45 minutes or so
between naps and meals but not lately. I get maybe 5 minutes of happy
time before she has another meltdown and has to nap.

Re: my milk supply: I used an SNS for a while, and it helped her stay
awake at the breast, but after 2-3 weeks of using it, it started to
drive me crazy. All the tape, and washing it, and the tape would get
wet from her mouth and slip during a feeding and we'd have to start
all over again with her crying the whole time . . . it helped me get
my supply back up to a certain point when it had dwindled to nearly
nothing, but now that I am able to pump 2-3oz per session and am
getting in 5-6 sessions per day, I have given up the SNS. I ordered
Domperidone (Motilium) on Monday morning and it should arrive in about
a week because my supply seems to have plateaued at about half of her
daily required intake. I really don't mind if she never gets back to
the breast properly (although of course that would be ideal) but my
minimum goal is to get her drinking 100% breast milk from a bottle and
phasing out formula altogether.

Re: co-sleeping: I have never really tried it other than weeks 6
though 8 of her life when I slept with her on my chest on the couch
and nursed her on demand around the clock. I was making one last
attempt at exclusively breastfeeding. She only gained an ounce in that
whole time so we started supplementing with formula. I think it is so
interesting that people's babies are sometimes less needy when they
co-sleep. Others drive their parents so nutso during the night that
it's not worth it.

Once I get my supply up to the point where she nurses well enough to
get a full tummy at one sitting without topping her off with formula,
I plan to try it for a week: in a different bed from DH (We have a
twin-size pullout couch in our bedroom). Just because her cry is so
immediate, without warning of any kind, and is so piercing that I
can't stand being woken up by it 2-3 times a night. I thought if I
co-slept, I could just pop her on the breast right away without having
to get out of bed, find slippers, comfort and re-swaddle baby
(fruitless, but I try anyway) heat up bottle, etc. Then maybe she
would learn to "cry better" as Dr. Sears says. Because right now her
cry sounds like someone is pulling off her toenails one by one, not
simply that she woke up hungry in the middle of the night.

Re: my needs vs. hers: I understand about letting her cry a little.
It's harder than with other babies I've taken care of (not just
because she's mine) because she doesn't just cry, she SCREAMS! I worry
sometimes that the neighbors think I am neglecting or mistreating her.
Sometimes you can't offer what you can't give, that is so true. I have
to remember that. Sometimes I have to pee, and she just has to cry
until I come back. I can't hold her CONSTANTLY (unless I find the
perfect sling) but I can do my best to make sure all of her needs are
met. I can't neglect my own basic needs and still take care of her
properly. So if I need to sit and have a cool drink and catch my
breath, she's just going to have to deal.

I reached the point the other day where I had to eat something, and
was sick of toast, and as I made myself a salad I just kept calling
out to her that I would be right back, that she was okay, in the hopes
that it would comfort her on some level. She cried the whole time. I
had to keep reminding myself that it was only for 2-3 minutes, and
that she wouldn't be harmed by it. As soon as I came back to the
living room she was all smiles, tears still running down her cheeks!
What a character!

[Marie]

On 3 Sep 2003 19:52:01 -0700, (Vijay) wrote:

> So rather than get her to sleep in the sling I usually just
>swaddle her and then I can set her down more easily. This works fine
>when she goes to sleep fairly quickly, but if she fights it (as she
>often does, especially during the day) my arms get very tired. So I
>thought the sling might help her fall asleep and it does, but then I
>have to wear her until she wakes up.

I totally forgot to mention swaddling in my reply to you! I do swaddle
my daughter, every single nap and bedtime and I re-swaddle her when
she wakes during the night. Otherwise she kicks and does stuff with
her arms (such as pick my nose, explore my mouth, pinch my breast or
massage the other breast) Swaddling also helps to lay her down and
help her still feel secure and tight, like she is being held and is
less likely to wake her up. My best friend's mother said she swaddled
my friend until she was 2 years old!

>Re: high needs babies: I have been reading up on high-needs babies
>ever since I found my way to the Sears website and figured out that
>Charlotte fits 11 of the 12 criteria (the one that she didn't fit is
>that she doesn't mind being held by others besides me and DH – as long
>as she's being held!).

Bethany would not let anyone else hold her(excpet dh, so I guess I'm
lucky b/c some of these babies won't even let their dads hold them)
without going hysterical after she was 2 months old.

> It does help to think, "Won't it be great when she is able to
>sit up on her own?" Because she hates being propped in a reclining
>position so I end up holding her upright all day on my knee.

Sitting up made a giant difference. Have you tried sitting her up in
the corner of the couch, or putting up some cushions or something to
where you can prop her in a sitting position? We did that to Bethany
before she was able to sit on her own and she enjoyed it. She looked
so tiny though ;o)

>When I have my next kid, do you think I'll get an easier one? It's
>nice to know that there are other people out there dealing with babies
>like this. I wonder what makes them the way they are? Is it genetic?
>Something during pregnancy? Something during first weeks of life? None
>of those reasons really explains why you can have one or more "normal"
>babies and then suddenly have a high-needs baby.

I have been wondering that also. The same questions, actually. We'll
probably never know. I think the odds are that you'll have an easier
baby next time. I am on a high-needs email list and no one so far has
had more than one high needs baby. I'm sure you'll have the next baby
and wonder what to do with all the free time you'll get ;o)

>I guess we just have
>to cope as best we can without worrying about the "whys." My ped said
>also that sensitive babies like Charlotte turn into great children and
>adults who are very smart, creative, humorous, imaginative, and
>empathetic toward others. So I have that to look forward to.
>
>My pediatrician has not checked her for ear or urinary infections.
>Besides fussiness, are there other signs? I seem to remember my
>younger sister would get ear infections a lot as an infant and would
>tug at her ear all the time. Charlotte only tugs on her ears if she's
>overtired and unswaddled as a method to keep herself awake. Would she
>pee more or less than normal if she had a bladder infection? Would it
>have a particular color or smell? Right now she pees a LOT and it's
>faint yellow and has a faint pee smell.

They say for an ear infection, it hurts to lay down flat and the baby
cries more in that position. IME when my oldest daughter had ear
infections as a baby, the ear was red and she had a fever. Pulling the
ear is one sign, but babies do that when they are sleepy also (like
you said) so that one's not a clear sign.
I have no idea about a bladder infection, sorry!

>Re: co-sleeping: I have never really tried it other than weeks 6
>though 8 of her life when I slept with her on my chest on the couch
>and nursed her on demand around the clock. I was making one last
>attempt at exclusively breastfeeding. She only gained an ounce in that
>whole time so we started supplementing with formula. I think it is so
>interesting that people's babies are sometimes less needy when they
>co-sleep. Others drive their parents so nutso during the night that
>it's not worth it.

Do you think you can have the supplies for the formula in the room you
will co-sleep in, so you can just make it up right then and not have
to get up?
It's ironic about the co-sleeping not working out for some...my middle
daughter slept with us or her crib with no problem, and we hadn't
planned at all on even having anywhere else for this baby to sleep.

>Re: my needs vs. hers: I understand about letting her cry a little.
>It's harder than with other babies I've taken care of (not just
>because she's mine) because she doesn't just cry, she SCREAMS!

I think many people don't understand this. I know my mother didn't
until she babysat her one day, for almost 4 hours Bethany screamed.
*Now* my mom understands what I mean! She won't just "learn" not to
cry lol. They don't realize it's not just a normal whiny cry, it's
this hysterical scream that will NOT stop until she is in your arms.

>I worry
>sometimes that the neighbors think I am neglecting or mistreating her.
>Sometimes you can't offer what you can't give, that is so true. I have
>to remember that. Sometimes I have to pee, and she just has to cry
>until I come back. I can't hold her CONSTANTLY (unless I find the
>perfect sling) but I can do my best to make sure all of her needs are
>met. I can't neglect my own basic needs and still take care of her
>properly. So if I need to sit and have a cool drink and catch my
>breath, she's just going to have to deal.
>
>I reached the point the other day where I had to eat something, and
>was sick of toast, and as I made myself a salad I just kept calling
>out to her that I would be right back, that she was okay, in the hopes
>that it would comfort her on some level. She cried the whole time. I
>had to keep reminding myself that it was only for 2-3 minutes, and
>that she wouldn't be harmed by it. As soon as I came back to the
>living room she was all smiles, tears still running down her cheeks!
>What a character!

You're right in all this. She won't be traumatized by crying (you
might but not her ;o) and it is so hard to let it happen but it can't
be helped. I've been at a point where I had to put Bethany down in the
crib and go outside for a few minutes. I hated it, I hated doing that
to her but I was so tired of holding her all day, my arms hurt, my
back hurt, and I needed a few minutes of quiet rest.
You'll make it through :o) Only a couple of decades longer.
Marie

[aps]

In article >, Vijay
> wrote:

> it really snug around her. I'd love to carry her upright, chest to
> chest and I think she'd like it too, but because of the padded rails I
> can't get the sling tight enough currently. I am also thinking about
> the Ultimate Baby Wrap. I like the idea that it is stretchy and goes
> over both shoulders. It's just that I bought the Nojo, and now the
> OTSBH, and a stroller, and a snugli! Where does it end??? All of the

Our 3-month-old fusses most times we put her in a sling--either the
OTSBH or the unpadded Maya Wrap Pouch--but she's content in the Baby
Bjorn, because it's the position she slept in for her first several
weeks, and it's how we carry her. A Snugli is similar, but it provides
less support, according to my sister.

> Re: high needs babies: I have been reading up on high-needs babies
> ever since I found my way to the Sears website and figured out that
> Charlotte fits 11 of the 12 criteria (the one that she didn't fit is
> that she doesn't mind being held by others besides me and DH – as long
> as she's being held!). I've been trying all of the tips that I read in

It can be helpful to categorize a baby, but IMHO it can also discourage
one from continuing to try different ways to sooth or stimulate the
baby. That's been the most helpful thing with our daughter--she still
wants and gets a modicum of holding every day, but she's warmed to
things that she rejected earlier and has become fickle toward things
that worked last week. At first she hated the swing, now she seems to
ask for it; she sometimes wiggles off my chest to a more comfortable
positon on a pillow next to me. So we keep offering stuff, while
keeping up whatever keeps working.

> Re: co-sleeping: I have never really tried it other than weeks 6
> though 8 of her life when I slept with her on my chest on the couch
> and nursed her on demand around the clock. I was making one last
> attempt at exclusively breastfeeding. She only gained an ounce in that
> whole time so we started supplementing with formula. I think it is so
> interesting that people's babies are sometimes less needy when they
> co-sleep. Others drive their parents so nutso during the night that
> it's not worth it.

Actually, I think we're waking the baby up with our flopping around
(she sleeps in a Snuggle Nest between us). We both have strong
reservations about the family bed concept, so we're gradually moving
her to the bassinet now that sleepiness is stronger than other
motiviations for her. She sleeps longer that way, so we do too, but I'd
be lying if I said I don't miss having her on my chest now and then.

> Re: my needs vs. hers: I understand about letting her cry a little.
> It's harder than with other babies I've taken care of (not just
> because she's mine) because she doesn't just cry, she SCREAMS! I worry
> sometimes that the neighbors think I am neglecting or mistreating her.

My nephew was like that; at 8 he's got a preternaturally high IQ.

APS

[Jenrose]

"Vijay" > wrote in message
om...
> Thank you all so much for your amazing messages. You each said things
> that really helped. I am going to try to address the major issues that
> I am facing that you all helped me with.
<snip>
> This wouldn't be a problem with a different sling I think, so I am
> doing some research. (Thanks for the tips!) I am thinking about
> removing some or all of the padding from the OTSBH so that I can get
> it really snug around her. I'd love to carry her upright, chest to
> chest and I think she'd like it too, but because of the padded rails I
> can't get the sling tight enough currently. I am also thinking about
> the Ultimate Baby Wrap. I like the idea that it is stretchy and goes
> over both shoulders. It's just that I bought the Nojo, and now the
> OTSBH, and a stroller, and a snugli! Where does it end??? All of the
> different designs and fabrics have their own appeal and it's hard to
> say definitively what is the best sling until you've tried them all. I
> guess I'm on my way!
>
It doesn't end..<g> My kid is 10 and I'm still trying new slings. Now, it's
part of my job to do so <g> but I still find it fascinating.

My foster son was a "swaddle baby"... that is, I kept him swaddled almost
24/7 in his first weeks particularly--whenever he wasn't *in* the MamaBaby
up on my chest, he was wrapped up in one snug as a bug. In fact, that's what
makes co-sleeping work for me--flaily baby isn't an issue when they're
wrapped up like a sausage. Sometimes I would swaddle him and THEN put him in
the sling. He would not, period, exclamation point, lie down on his back for
me. So I'd set him down in the carseat--he liked that a lot. It was a cozy
infant carseat designed for smaller babies, and has a narrow profile.

As far as where buying slings ends... you can sell the ones you don't like
to help defray some of the costs of the new stuff. My ideal "package" of
slings?

A pair of MamaBaby slings
A good pouch or two--the jury is still out for me on *which* pouch--my
personal favorite can't be bought anywhere but I'm trying several "bought"
ones this week.
And a good back/front pack like Sutemi or Ergo.

That said, with my foster son I had the MamaBaby slings and a few others
including a rebozo and the only reason I wore anything but the MamaBaby
slings was for fashion's sake <g> (I have a really pretty arco iris rebozo
which goes very well with black velvet, so I wore it and the baby to an
office party) or because the main slings were in the wash. With him, I had
two sets of MamaBaby slings, plus a rebozo, plus another carrier I won't
recommend, and most of my others were on loan so I didn't have them
available. I think I used my "last backup" once and mostly just used the
MamaBaby slings.

> Re: high needs babies: I have been reading up on high-needs babies
> ever since I found my way to the Sears website and figured out that
> Charlotte fits 11 of the 12 criteria (the one that she didn't fit is
> that she doesn't mind being held by others besides me and DH - as long
> as she's being held!). I've been trying all of the tips that I read in
> the Fussy Baby Book by Sears and some work great. She loves to be
> swaddled tightly and cradled in my arms while I bounce on my exercise
> ball and sing to her or make a shushing sound. It sounds like a lot of
> things going on at once, but it works so I just go with it! 90% of the
> time that's how I get her to sleep. Sometimes with a pacifier,
> sometimes without. She lets me know! She is very opinionated and moody
> already. It does help to think, "Won't it be great when she is able to
> sit up on her own?" Because she hates being propped in a reclining
> position so I end up holding her upright all day on my knee.
>
My best friend's baby is like this. She not only wants to be walked, she
wants to be walked FAST, UPRIGHT, and FACING OUT (The shouting is because
that's what she does whenever any of those three conditions are not met). My
friend is very tall and long-legged, and it's pretty astonishing to see her
striding in circles with this small child all the way up on the top of her
shoulder or facing out from the middle of her chest. She slows down, baby
squalls.

> When I have my next kid, do you think I'll get an easier one? It's
> nice to know that there are other people out there dealing with babies
> like this. I wonder what makes them the way they are? Is it genetic?
> Something during pregnancy? Something during first weeks of life? None
> of those reasons really explains why you can have one or more "normal"
> babies and then suddenly have a high-needs baby. I guess we just have
> to cope as best we can without worrying about the "whys." My ped said
> also that sensitive babies like Charlotte turn into great children and
> adults who are very smart, creative, humorous, imaginative, and
> empathetic toward others. So I have that to look forward to.
>
Who knows about the next one? Chances are by the time you get to that point,
you'll have realized your current difficutly is totally worth it. <g>

> My pediatrician has not checked her for ear or urinary infections.
> Besides fussiness, are there other signs? I seem to remember my
> younger sister would get ear infections a lot as an infant and would
> tug at her ear all the time. Charlotte only tugs on her ears if she's
> overtired and unswaddled as a method to keep herself awake. Would she
> pee more or less than normal if she had a bladder infection? Would it
> have a particular color or smell? Right now she pees a LOT and it's
> faint yellow and has a faint pee smell.
>

One issue I find critical to temperment...allergies. Whenever my child or I
are allergic to something, we get really crabby, along with other symptoms.
It's a Jeckyll-Hyde sort of transformation with my kid (I plead the fifth on
my own mood swings...<g>) No allergens, she's a good, mellow, rational
human being. Give her a little peanut butter or soy protein or a bite of
something with an egg glaze, and within an hour she's bouncing off the
walls, arguing with everything, bursting into tears for no apparent reason,
and acting like something is irritating her central nervous system directly.
It's kind of scary, except that a dose of zyrtec will alleviate the
squirreliness for her.

But K's issues are with soy, egg, dairy and peanut. ALL of those create
similar symptoms--cranky, irritated, and then she gets a sore throat or ear
infection from minor swelling if we don't treat the allergy with medicine.
If she'd been on formula she would have had to be on a hydrolysate formula.
Interestingly, I was noticing that my foster son was averse to the formula
the hospital sent him home with, so I switched him to Good Start, which
while not a full hydrolysate, does seem to be a bit easier on the system
than a full milk formula. It was again a night-and-day difference in his
happiness level and willingness to eat, etc.

Food allergies can lead to a sort of all-over low-grade irritability, in my
experience, which makes *everything* harder to deal with. I get really
irrational...

> Re: breastmilk: I think it must be true about breastmilk having baby
> morphine in it. I managed to pump more than usual yesterday morning
> and after she drank it she took a really long nap propped next to me
> on the couch with pillows. While she was sleeping I pumped some more.
> She ended up sleeping from 1pm to 6pm waking only to guzzle a bottle
> and not opening her eyes and slipping right back into sleep without
> any heroics on my part. Sometimes I had to give her formula, but it
> was such a great day! She usually only takes 15-30 minute naps and
> only with a great deal of effort on my part to get her to just GIVE IT
> UP and go to sleep! I think she must be going through a MAJOR growth
> spurt, because she hasn't had any attention span at all these past few
> days and she has been eating a lot more than usual. I wish I had been
> keeping track. Usually she'll stay up and play for 45 minutes or so
> between naps and meals but not lately. I get maybe 5 minutes of happy
> time before she has another meltdown and has to nap.
>
How often are you pumping? What kind of pump are you using?


> Re: my milk supply: I used an SNS for a while, and it helped her stay
> awake at the breast, but after 2-3 weeks of using it, it started to
> drive me crazy. All the tape, and washing it, and the tape would get
> wet from her mouth and slip during a feeding and we'd have to start
> all over again with her crying the whole time . . . it helped me get
> my supply back up to a certain point when it had dwindled to nearly
> nothing, but now that I am able to pump 2-3oz per session and am
> getting in 5-6 sessions per day, I have given up the SNS. I ordered
> Domperidone (Motilium) on Monday morning and it should arrive in about
> a week because my supply seems to have plateaued at about half of her
> daily required intake. I really don't mind if she never gets back to
> the breast properly (although of course that would be ideal) but my
> minimum goal is to get her drinking 100% breast milk from a bottle and
> phasing out formula altogether.
>
If you can get there, great! If you want to get her to latch, in all
likelihood you'll need to ditch bottles and do cup feeds or spoon feeds so
the only thing she gets to latch to is your breast. Another battle, and one
you may or may not want to fight. Or is she still latching?

> Re: co-sleeping: I have never really tried it other than weeks 6
> though 8 of her life when I slept with her on my chest on the couch
> and nursed her on demand around the clock. I was making one last
> attempt at exclusively breastfeeding. She only gained an ounce in that
> whole time so we started supplementing with formula. I think it is so
> interesting that people's babies are sometimes less needy when they
> co-sleep. Others drive their parents so nutso during the night that
> it's not worth it.
>

The on-demand-around-the clock can work with formula supplementation--you
just don't use bottles... basically baby latches to breast and sucks as long
as baby is willing, then you use a cup or spoon to top off, then put baby
back to breast if baby will suck... My babies didn't drive me nutso at
night--if they were bugging me, I catwrapped 'em. If they wanted to play,
well, I didn't turn on the light and would make unpleasant grunty noises to
the effect of "shup. sleepin." I'll feed a baby at night, and change a baby
if they're actually smelly enough to wake me, but other than that, I just
*won't* do anything more. Well, burping the littlest ones is sort of a
survival thing at first, because I *do* wake up if I get thrown up on, but I
can do that in my sleep, pretty much. I co-sleep because, well, once I've
got the food in the baby's mouth, I fall asleep, be it bottle or breast.
Can't help it. If I were trying to sit up for a feed, it would result in
baby slipping off my lap, and that would be dangerous. On the other hand,
when I've got a baby nestled in the crook of my arm, I rouse a little if
they do *anything*, but slip back to sleep just as easily.

> Once I get my supply up to the point where she nurses well enough to
> get a full tummy at one sitting without topping her off with formula,
> I plan to try it for a week: in a different bed from DH (We have a
> twin-size pullout couch in our bedroom). Just because her cry is so
> immediate, without warning of any kind, and is so piercing that I
> can't stand being woken up by it 2-3 times a night. I thought if I
> co-slept, I could just pop her on the breast right away without having
> to get out of bed, find slippers, comfort and re-swaddle baby
> (fruitless, but I try anyway) heat up bottle, etc. Then maybe she
> would learn to "cry better" as Dr. Sears says. Because right now her
> cry sounds like someone is pulling off her toenails one by one, not
> simply that she woke up hungry in the middle of the night.
>
That's a hard thing to hear from your child...

> Re: my needs vs. hers: I understand about letting her cry a little.
> It's harder than with other babies I've taken care of (not just
> because she's mine) because she doesn't just cry, she SCREAMS! I worry
> sometimes that the neighbors think I am neglecting or mistreating her.
> Sometimes you can't offer what you can't give, that is so true. I have
> to remember that. Sometimes I have to pee, and she just has to cry
> until I come back. I can't hold her CONSTANTLY (unless I find the
> perfect sling) but I can do my best to make sure all of her needs are
> met. I can't neglect my own basic needs and still take care of her
> properly. So if I need to sit and have a cool drink and catch my
> breath, she's just going to have to deal.
>
Definitely need the right sling! If you can make her almost part of your
body again (someone wise called it "moving the bump up") then you can take
care of your needs AND her needs. But

> I reached the point the other day where I had to eat something, and
> was sick of toast, and as I made myself a salad I just kept calling
> out to her that I would be right back, that she was okay, in the hopes
> that it would comfort her on some level. She cried the whole time. I
> had to keep reminding myself that it was only for 2-3 minutes, and
> that she wouldn't be harmed by it. As soon as I came back to the
> living room she was all smiles, tears still running down her cheeks!
> What a character!

Food strategies are important. Can you have hubby roast a chicken and cut it
up and leave it for you? I like to just grab a piece of cold chicken for a
snack, and it's great protein--we strip the skin off the chicken and
season-salt it liberally before we cook it, and it tastes incredible that
way, and isn't so greasy cold. How about hard boiled eggs? Make some
sandwiches up ahead of time? Get yogurt? What would work for you? Monotonous
diet when you're nursing can be a supply killer if you're particularly
sensitive to that sort of thing.

Jenrose

[Nikki]

Vijay wrote:

My ped said
> also that sensitive babies like Charlotte turn into great children and
> adults who are very smart, creative, humorous, imaginative, and
> empathetic toward others. So I have that to look forward to.

Well fwiw Hunter was my high needs baby. He was an amazingly easy to get
along with toddler and 2yo. His only problems were arround his inability to
talk so if that had not been there it would have been really easy. Luke was
an easy baby but wow......terrible two's barely describe it, Lol. Also,
Luke is just a giant complainer if he has a cold or anything making him even
a little miserable. He laughs more and talks up a storm :-)

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

[Vijay]

"Nikki" > wrote in message >...
> Vijay wrote:
>
> My ped said
> > also that sensitive babies like Charlotte turn into great children and
> > adults who are very smart, creative, humorous, imaginative, and
> > empathetic toward others. So I have that to look forward to.
>
> Well fwiw Hunter was my high needs baby. He was an amazingly easy to get
> along with toddler and 2yo. His only problems were arround his inability to
> talk so if that had not been there it would have been really easy. Luke was
> an easy baby but wow......terrible two's barely describe it, Lol. Also,
> Luke is just a giant complainer if he has a cold or anything making him even
> a little miserable. He laughs more and talks up a storm :-)

Gosh, I got such a dose of gratefulness reading these messages, both
for the advice and for the anecdotes that show me that things could be
much worse. Thank goodness Charlotte lets others hold her. I can't
even imagine how much more difficult things would be if I was the only
one she would tolerate. She LOVES her daddy, and is getting used to
the rest of her family too.

I only figured she would need to be swaddled for another month or two,
but hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? As long as she needs
it, we'll do it. It can't do any harm.

We do sometimes prop her up in the corner of the couch, but she tends
to tip over! I guess I need to really wedge some more pillows around
her if it's going to work. She's just so impatient to be a big
independent girl!

It's good to hear that I probably will get an easy baby next time. Or
at least easier than Charlotte, lol. Apparently I was the most mellow,
happy baby ever. My mom used to wake up in the morning and think
"Omigod, why isn't the baby crying for me, there must be something
wrong!" She'd go running over to my crib and I'd just be laying there,
eyes open, happily gurgling away.

I kinda thought I'd get one of those. Boy was I wrong! Sometimes even
now when she goes down for a really long nap I don't know what to do
with myself! I'm so used to focusing on her 24/7 that when I get a
minute to myself I sort of freeze and don't know what to do for a
minute. She is so different from me, it's hard to believe that she's
my daughter. She looks like my husband and acts like my mother, lol.

Anyway, with regard to breastfeeding and pumping: When she is alert
and hungry but not hysterical, she latches on well, and nurses for
about 5 minutes on each side. She pulls herself off the breast but I
know she isn't full. I offer her a bottle with 2-3oz and she chugs it
down. Then she sits next to me propped in her boppy and I pump.

I try to pump every 2-3 hours, but it usually works out to 4-6 times
in 24 hours. I get about 1-2oz from each breast at each session. I was
using a rented Classic for a month and bought a Pump in Style. The
Classic helped me increase from 1/2 an ounce from each breast to 1-1.5
oz per breast, but I plateaued there after 3 weeks or so. I've been
using the Pump in Style for almost 2 weeks and I'm still getting the
same amount. That's why I've ordered the Domperidone.

I don't know why she doesn't nurse well, she never has. If she's
hysterical (wakes up hysterical every time) I can't get her latched on
properly. If she's calm but sleepy, she'll fall asleep after less than
5 minutes but it's not a real sleep. It's like breast-induced
narcolepsy. As soon as the breast is taken away, she's awake, crying
and hungry again. I really do think it's because my supply is still
not up to par.

Interesting point about allergens. I am sensitive to milk supposedly.
I never noticed any adverse effects, but my mom took me and the baby
to a kinesiologist and he said we need to avoid dairy. I switched her
to soy formula, and she is thriving, but I can't seem to give up milk,
cheese, ice cream, yogurt, etc. so maybe she's having problems with
the breastmilk because of the dairy products I eat? I guess it's worth
cutting out dairy for a few weeks to see if that's why she's so fussy.

DH has been great about food. He makes stuff for us on his days off
and brings something home other times (KFC, Chinese, etc.) so I'm
definitely getting enough to eat most of the time. It's just sometimes
when I'm alone with her from 2pm until 11pm that I resort to toast and
ovaltine because it's fast to make so I don't have to listen to her
cry for too long.

But I realize that I have to stop doing that if I'm ever going to lose
my baby weight so I've started keeping clean lettuce in bags in the
fridge and Tupperware containers with chopped cooked chicken, baby
tomatoes, etc. so I can throw a quick salad together with some avocado
slices and grated cheese. I think I'll make up some big containers of
tuna salad and egg salad tomorrow and I can just grab bites of it from
time to time. I really need to focus on getting enough protein. I've
always been a bread/cookies/cake kind of person, which isn't that
healthy.

[Vijay]

Phoebe & Allyson > wrote in message >...
> Vijay wrote:
>
> > Because right now her
> > cry sounds like someone is pulling off her toenails one by one, not
> > simply that she woke up hungry in the middle of the night.
>
>
> Caterpillar used to wake up like that, no matter how well we
> burped her, and gas drops helped. I got tired of listening
> to her scream for the few seconds until the drops kicked in,
> so I started drinking a cup of fennel tea at night and one
> in the morning, and the nighttime screaming stopped. She is
> an otherwise unfussy baby, so this might not help you at
> all, but it's worth a try.
>
>
> > as I made myself a salad I just kept calling
> > out to her that I would be right back, that she was okay, in the hopes
> > that it would comfort her on some level.
>
>
> That's what I do, too. I also find that sitting in a bouncy
> seat where she can see me as well as hearing me helps somewhat.
>
> Phoebe :)

Thanks Phoebe, I'll give your suggestions a try. I am going to go to
the drugstore tomorrow with my MIL and get some gas drops. I never
thought that it was gas causing ALL of her fussiness, but I just went
in to feed her and when I picked her up from the cradle she let out a
bunch of farts. So maybe it's partly gas, or sometimes gas. I've
started drinking Fennel tea and plan to try Gripe Water first and if
that doesn't work, Mylicon.

As for offering the breast again, it's not much use until I get my
supply back up. I can only pump an ounce or two every 3-4 hours, so
for now it's bottles of formula. I've ordered Domperidone and it
should be here in a few days. I've read and heard that it really helps
boost supply.

I've tried the bouncy seat thing, but it doesn't really work. She
wants to be in my arms. I've ordered two new slings to see which one I
like more (Ultimate Baby Wrap and Maya) and I plan to try to wear her
most of the time and see if that helps her moods. The OTSBH is too
uncomfortable. DH just bought a Baby Bjorn and loves it but I prefer a
sling. So between the two of us we'll wear her as much as possible and
see if that helps.

-V.

[Phoebe & Allyson]

Vijay wrote:

> As for offering the breast again, it's not much use until I get my
> supply back up. I can only pump an ounce or two every 3-4 hours, so
> for now it's bottles of formula.


FWIW, I can't pump much more than that (particularly in
addition to nursing), and my supply is fine - it just likes
to be inside a warm body better than in a cold bottle. ;)

Any chance it's the formula making her fussy? Cow's milk
allergy isn't uncommon, and a baby allergic to milk-based
formula has a 40% chance of being allergic to soy formula as
well.

Good luck with the Domperidone.

Phoebe :)

[HollyLewis]

>As for offering the breast again, it's not much use until I get my
>supply back up. I can only pump an ounce or two every 3-4 hours, so
>for now it's bottles of formula.

I hate to be, um, blunt, but several people have now told you in more tactful
ways that you are flat out wrong about this, and either you don't understand --
so I'll try one more time -- or you're just ignoring it for reasons you don't
wish to disclose -- which is fine, but I have to respond just in case someone
else in a similar situation is reading.

The BEST way to increase your milk supply, if in fact your milk supply is low,
which is not entirely evident, is to nurse your baby as often as you can
possibly get her to latch on, for at least several days. Pumping will not
increase your supply very effectively, and pumping an ounce or two every 3-4
hours is not good evidence of low supply.

When she fusses, offer her a breast. When she falls asleep and unlatches after
nursing only a few minutes, offer her the other breast. (If she falls asleep
but doesn't unlatch, leave her where she is as long as you can stand it.) Any
time you think she might want or need a bottle, offer her a breast first.
Spend a weekend in bed, topless, and with your baby snuggled close to you.

This will increase your supply and quite likely lead to a happier baby.

Yes, domperidone, gripe water and a new sling will probably all help you too.
But the main thing that would likely make a big difference to you and your
daughter would be to get her to breastfeed and get rid of the pump, bottles and
formula. Which you can do best by breastfeeding, not by continuing to pump and
bottle feed.

Holly
Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs

[Vijay]

(HollyLewis) wrote in message >...
> >As for offering the breast again, it's not much use until I get my
> >supply back up. I can only pump an ounce or two every 3-4 hours, so
> >for now it's bottles of formula.
>
> I hate to be, um, blunt, but several people have now told you in more tactful
> ways that you are flat out wrong about this, and either you don't understand --
> so I'll try one more time -- or you're just ignoring it for reasons you don't
> wish to disclose -- which is fine, but I have to respond just in case someone
> else in a similar situation is reading.

Omigod, you are so rude. My baby does not nurse properly unless I use
an SNS. What does that tell you? I'll tell you what my lactation
consultant told me: that the flow of milk is not enough to sustain her
interest. She either goes into a trance that is not actual sleep, or
she removes herself from the breast in frustration. So until I
increase my supply, nursing her frequently is not an option, something
that I thought I had made abundantly clear in my many posts on the
subject.
>
> The BEST way to increase your milk supply, if in fact your milk supply is low,
> which is not entirely evident, is to nurse your baby as often as you can
> possibly get her to latch on, for at least several days. Pumping will not
> increase your supply very effectively, and pumping an ounce or two every 3-4
> hours is not good evidence of low supply.

I tried this for TWO WEEKS. My pediatrician suggested that I
supplement with formula when Charlotte had gone down to the 5th
percentile by six weeks postpartum. I told her I wanted to give one
more last ditch effort to keep breastfeeding exclusively. I did
nothing but sit with her on the couch for two weeks and nurse her and
let her sleep on my chest. My husband brought me all my meals and I
never left the house once. I lost major muscle tone and gained 10
pounds. She gained a total of ONE OUNCE during that entire time
because she couldn't stay awake. I tried everything, wet washcloth on
her face, tickling her feet, skin to skin, bright lights, loud music,
whatever people suggested I tried and nothing worked. She was just a
drowsy nurser, and since we were at week six postpartum when I started
trying this, my supply had already dipped. We were in a spiral that we
only broke out of by meeting with a lactation consultant.
>
> When she fusses, offer her a breast. When she falls asleep and unlatches after
> nursing only a few minutes, offer her the other breast. (If she falls asleep
> but doesn't unlatch, leave her where she is as long as you can stand it.) Any
> time you think she might want or need a bottle, offer her a breast first.
> Spend a weekend in bed, topless, and with your baby snuggled close to you.
>
> This will increase your supply and quite likely lead to a happier baby.

Yeah, it would have been great if this did it, but my baby was only 7
ounces heavier than her birthweight at 8 weeks, so I guess you are
wrong.
>
> Yes, domperidone, gripe water and a new sling will probably all help you too.
> But the main thing that would likely make a big difference to you and your
> daughter would be to get her to breastfeed and get rid of the pump, bottles and
> formula. Which you can do best by breastfeeding, not by continuing to pump and
> bottle feed.

Sorry to be "blunt" as you put it, but you are wrong. I know that I
need Domperidone because I've tried everything else. I am going back
to using the SNS tomorrow because I don't know when the Domperidone is
going to arrive and although I was fed up with the SNS after using it
for a few weeks, I am worried that my supply is going to dip even
lower or that she is going to "forget" how to nurse. I guess I
shouldn't be too worried because she has a cute signal when she wants
to nurse: she licks my arm. So when we try it and she goes for maximum
5 minutes on each side I get a bit discouraged, but I'm glad that she
still WANTS to nurse.

I want more than anything to throw away the bottles and formula,
believe me. It is very insensitive of you to take the tone you took
with me in your post. I hope you will think twice before you act that
insensitively toward someone else in this group. Please don't tell me
I'm copping out by using formula, it was a last resort that has gotten
my precious baby girl up from the bottom of the growth chart to the
25th percentile.

-V.

>
> Holly
> Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs

[Lizajane]

I can sympathize with you, since I went through something similar. The
only difference is that Gabriel was not a drowsy nurser, which makes
your situation sound even harder. I have been wracked with guilt,
despite the fact that he is a very happy alert non-spitting up
non-colicky 4 month old. I am always thinking, what could I have done
differently? I look at my friend with exclusively breastfed twins with
sheer envy. I have never given up nursing, but I eventually had to
supplement, and I have worked all along with a lactation consultant(s)
in addition to posting on the MKB board. I tried everything you have
tried (except Domperidone), but to no avail. I took that damn breast
pump everywhere and pumped between feedings. I nursed him at the
slightest peep. I tried the SNS. NOTHING. How much weight was I
supposed to let him lose? So now I am back at work, my husband is a
SAHD whose only job is Gabriel, and my milk supply is even worse than
before since pumping at work doesn't give me that much milk. I am not
sure I want to take Domperidone, but I haven't decided.

But, what I really want to say is, please don't let people beat you up
even more. We are hard enough on ourselves. And remember,
breastfeeding does not make you a good mom, just as bottlefeeding does
not make you a bad mom. Most parents do the absolute very best they
can. And it sounds like you have gone above and beyond the call of
duty. Kudos to you for trying SOOO hard. -Liza


(Vijay) wrote in message >...
> (HollyLewis) wrote in message >...
> > >As for offering the breast again, it's not much use until I get my
> > >supply back up. I can only pump an ounce or two every 3-4 hours, so
> > >for now it's bottles of formula.
> >
> > I hate to be, um, blunt, but several people have now told you in more tactful
> > ways that you are flat out wrong about this, and either you don't understand --
> > so I'll try one more time -- or you're just ignoring it for reasons you don't
> > wish to disclose -- which is fine, but I have to respond just in case someone
> > else in a similar situation is reading.
>
> Omigod, you are so rude. My baby does not nurse properly unless I use
> an SNS. What does that tell you? I'll tell you what my lactation
> consultant told me: that the flow of milk is not enough to sustain her
> interest. She either goes into a trance that is not actual sleep, or
> she removes herself from the breast in frustration. So until I
> increase my supply, nursing her frequently is not an option, something
> that I thought I had made abundantly clear in my many posts on the
> subject.
> >
> > The BEST way to increase your milk supply, if in fact your milk supply is low,
> > which is not entirely evident, is to nurse your baby as often as you can
> > possibly get her to latch on, for at least several days. Pumping will not
> > increase your supply very effectively, and pumping an ounce or two every 3-4
> > hours is not good evidence of low supply.
>
> I tried this for TWO WEEKS. My pediatrician suggested that I
> supplement with formula when Charlotte had gone down to the 5th
> percentile by six weeks postpartum. I told her I wanted to give one
> more last ditch effort to keep breastfeeding exclusively. I did
> nothing but sit with her on the couch for two weeks and nurse her and
> let her sleep on my chest. My husband brought me all my meals and I
> never left the house once. I lost major muscle tone and gained 10
> pounds. She gained a total of ONE OUNCE during that entire time
> because she couldn't stay awake. I tried everything, wet washcloth on
> her face, tickling her feet, skin to skin, bright lights, loud music,
> whatever people suggested I tried and nothing worked. She was just a
> drowsy nurser, and since we were at week six postpartum when I started
> trying this, my supply had already dipped. We were in a spiral that we
> only broke out of by meeting with a lactation consultant.
> >
> > When she fusses, offer her a breast. When she falls asleep and unlatches after
> > nursing only a few minutes, offer her the other breast. (If she falls asleep
> > but doesn't unlatch, leave her where she is as long as you can stand it.) Any
> > time you think she might want or need a bottle, offer her a breast first.
> > Spend a weekend in bed, topless, and with your baby snuggled close to you.
> >
> > This will increase your supply and quite likely lead to a happier baby.
>
> Yeah, it would have been great if this did it, but my baby was only 7
> ounces heavier than her birthweight at 8 weeks, so I guess you are
> wrong.
> >
> > Yes, domperidone, gripe water and a new sling will probably all help you too.
> > But the main thing that would likely make a big difference to you and your
> > daughter would be to get her to breastfeed and get rid of the pump, bottles and
> > formula. Which you can do best by breastfeeding, not by continuing to pump and
> > bottle feed.
>
> Sorry to be "blunt" as you put it, but you are wrong. I know that I
> need Domperidone because I've tried everything else. I am going back
> to using the SNS tomorrow because I don't know when the Domperidone is
> going to arrive and although I was fed up with the SNS after using it
> for a few weeks, I am worried that my supply is going to dip even
> lower or that she is going to "forget" how to nurse. I guess I
> shouldn't be too worried because she has a cute signal when she wants
> to nurse: she licks my arm. So when we try it and she goes for maximum
> 5 minutes on each side I get a bit discouraged, but I'm glad that she
> still WANTS to nurse.
>
> I want more than anything to throw away the bottles and formula,
> believe me. It is very insensitive of you to take the tone you took
> with me in your post. I hope you will think twice before you act that
> insensitively toward someone else in this group. Please don't tell me
> I'm copping out by using formula, it was a last resort that has gotten
> my precious baby girl up from the bottom of the growth chart to the
> 25th percentile.
>
> -V.
>
> >
> > Holly
> > Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs

[HollyLewis]

>I tried this for TWO WEEKS. My pediatrician suggested that I
>supplement with formula when Charlotte had gone down to the 5th
>percentile by six weeks postpartum. I told her I wanted to give one
>more last ditch effort to keep breastfeeding exclusively. I did
>nothing but sit with her on the couch for two weeks and nurse her and
>let her sleep on my chest.

Well, I apologize then. If you had previously described this, I missed it. I
kept seeing messages about how you thought you had low supply because you
couldn't pump very much.

> Please don't tell me
>I'm copping out by using formula, it was a last resort that has gotten
>my precious baby girl up from the bottom of the growth chart to the
>25th percentile.

I didn't say you were copping out, just that what you've been doing did not
seem to match your stated goal. I can totally understand having already tried
everything that's been suggested to you and just getting worn out with it not
working, and I don't think there's anything wrong with using formula at need!
But you said you wanted to stop using formula but couldn't until your supply
increases, and that is kind of backwards -- you have to reduce the formula in
order for your supply to go up. Obviously you have to do it gradually and
carefully if your baby is taking a lot of it, but you still have to do it.

Also, be suspicious of all that emphasis on those growth charts. Sure, giving
a baby formula will cause the baby to gain weight. But in general it doesn't
solve whatever underlying problem caused the baby not to gain weight in the
first place! IOW, formula can relieve a symptom, but it isn't a cure -- and in
fact can exacerbate the "disease" in many cases.

I don't mean to be insensitive. I am sorry you have had such a tough time and
I recognize that you are doing the best you can. But you posted asking for
advice, and tons of people gave you advice about breastfeeding that you
appeared to ignore. Again, I apologize if the problem is that I simply missed
your responses to that advice, but I hope you can see why it is so frustrating
to some of us to see so many common misconceptions about feeding be taken for
granted over and over again, and to see so many moms fail at breastfeeding
their babies only because they refuse to consider the advice of moms who've
BTDT.

Holly
Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs

[Vijay]

(Lizajane) wrote in message >...
> I can sympathize with you, since I went through something similar. The
> only difference is that Gabriel was not a drowsy nurser, which makes
> your situation sound even harder. I have been wracked with guilt,
> despite the fact that he is a very happy alert non-spitting up
> non-colicky 4 month old. I am always thinking, what could I have done
> differently? I look at my friend with exclusively breastfed twins with
> sheer envy.

I know! I feel like "How could this have happened to me?" I was so
committed to BF! I have friends who had no trouble with BF and I
wonder, "What is wrong with me? They aren't smarter or a better mom
than me, and they are doing it?" But you have to just let these
negative thoughts go and concentrate on keeping your baby healthy.
Congrats on your happy healthy boy! And what a great name.

I have never given up nursing, but I eventually had to
> supplement, and I have worked all along with a lactation consultant(s)
> in addition to posting on the MKB board. I tried everything you have
> tried (except Domperidone), but to no avail. I took that damn breast
> pump everywhere and pumped between feedings. I nursed him at the
> slightest peep. I tried the SNS. NOTHING. How much weight was I
> supposed to let him lose? So now I am back at work, my husband is a
> SAHD whose only job is Gabriel, and my milk supply is even worse than
> before since pumping at work doesn't give me that much milk. I am not
> sure I want to take Domperidone, but I haven't decided.

This may help you make up your mind:
http://www.parentingweb.com/lounge/newman/nm_domperi.htm
>
> But, what I really want to say is, please don't let people beat you up
> even more. We are hard enough on ourselves. And remember,
> breastfeeding does not make you a good mom, just as bottlefeeding does
> not make you a bad mom. Most parents do the absolute very best they
> can. And it sounds like you have gone above and beyond the call of
> duty. Kudos to you for trying SOOO hard. -Liza
>
>
Thanks Liza! I have been trying VERY hard, and you're so right, I am
(and always have been) my own worst critic. I beat myself up all the
time and have to remind myself that I'm only human, and that I have to
do whatever is best for me and my baby -- even if it wasn't part of
the original plan. On the other hand, I have gotten much better
(finally, at 31) at not letting people put me down or walk all over
me. So although I still tend to be way too hard on myself, I am better
about not taking crap from others. So anyone who thinks I am a bad mom
for giving my baby formula can kiss my tushie!

-V.

[Jenrose]

"Vijay" > wrote in message
om...
> Thanks Liza! I have been trying VERY hard, and you're so right, I am
> (and always have been) my own worst critic. I beat myself up all the
> time and have to remind myself that I'm only human, and that I have to
> do whatever is best for me and my baby -- even if it wasn't part of
> the original plan. On the other hand, I have gotten much better
> (finally, at 31) at not letting people put me down or walk all over
> me. So although I still tend to be way too hard on myself, I am better
> about not taking crap from others. So anyone who thinks I am a bad mom
> for giving my baby formula can kiss my tushie!


The first rule is always, "Feed the baby".

Whatever that takes!

Jenrose