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john
April 18th 06, 04:30 PM
The Age of Autism: Pox -- Part 1

By Dan Olmsted for UPI
http://tinyurl.com/qhcet

Children in families with problematic reactions to chickenpox virus
may be at risk for developing autism if they get that live-virus
immunization too close to other live-virus vaccines, a three-month United
Press International investigation of cases in one northwest U.S. city
suggests.
Several such families in the Washington state capital of Olympia
watched their children regress into full-syndrome autism -- losing language
and social skills and adopting repetitive behaviors -- in the months
following the shots. Two children had participated in small clinical trials
in Olympia of investigational Merck & Co. chickenpox vaccines in combination
with the live-virus mumps-measles-rubella vaccine -- the MMR.
Federal health authorities consistently have rejected concerns about a
link between immunizations and autism. But a family background of problems
coping with viruses used in live-virus vaccines has not been considered a
possible risk factor, experts said.
One of the children in the clinical trials, Jimmy Flinton, now 4, got
about 10 times the standard dose of chickenpox vaccine in a shot that also
contained the standard MMR.
Called ProQuad, that combined immunization was approved by the U.S.
Food and Drug Administration last September -- the first time four
"attenuated" or weakened live viruses have been mixed together in a single
shot.
The second child, Timothy Baltzley, now 6, got an investigational
"process upgrade" chickenpox shot and a separate MMR shot at the same office
visit.
Both children have a parent who had unusual reactions to chickenpox
virus.

Four days after the MMR and chickenpox injections he became ill with a
fever and lay limp in his mother's arms for the first time in his life.


Timothy's Baltzley's mother, Kimberly, had chickenpox three times, the
last at age 16, just three years before he was born. Jimmy Flinton's father,
Paul, had shingles as a teenager. Shingles is reactivated chickenpox virus
that painfully inflames nerves and mostly affects older people or those with
weakened immune systems.
Both children got the vaccines at 12 months, the age at which
chickenpox and MMR immunizations are first recommended by the Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention. They were among a total of 101 subjects in
the two trials in Olympia, according to the Western Institutional Review
Board, which approved the trial protocols.
Half-a-dozen other parents of preschool-age autistic children from the
same neighborhood in Olympia recognized a common thread: unusual chickenpox
histories in their families and simultaneous or closely timed chickenpox and
MMR shots in their children.
"It's the proximity of the chickenpox and MMR vaccinations" and the
family histories that stand out, said Denise Rohrbeck, mother of 3-year-old
Grant.
Rohrbeck has not been able to develop immunity to chickenpox despite
being twice vaccinated as an adult, the last time just two years before her
son was born. A couple of months before he got the standard chickenpox and
MMR shots at the same office visit at age 1, Grant had a stubborn and severe
case of roseola, which like chickenpox is a herpesvirus.
Four days after the MMR and chickenpox injections he became ill with a
fever and lay limp in his mother's arms for the first time in his life.
"He began having chronic diarrhea, and by his 15-month checkup he had
regressed so drastically that his pediatrician suggested he could be
autistic," Rohrback recalled. The doctor agreed to the parents' request for
an immediate neurodevelopmental evaluation, which resulted in a diagnosis of
full-syndrome autism.
Rohbeck said she began looking for a possible connection between
vaccines and autism among neighborhood children after the Thurston County
Health Department did not follow up on parents' concerns raised at a meeting
last October. With the parents' continued involvement, she has now compiled
vaccination records of 14 Olympia children diagnosed with autism, as well as
16 who are not.
The admittedly unscientific chickenpox-MMR association continues to be
striking, and the two cases following the clinical trials seemed to
underscore it, she said.
A Merck spokeswoman said the company reported those two cases to the
FDA this March -- the same month UPI asked Merck about them.
"We just received these reports in March 2006, six months after
ProQuad was approved in the U.S., and they were sent to the FDA after we
received them," Merck's Christine Fanelle said in a statement. She said
Merck received "the two reports of autism AEs from Olympia -- one from the
parent of a child in the ProQuad trial and one from the parent of a child in
(the 'process upgrade' chickenpox) study."
Parents Jennifer Flinton and Kimberly Baltzley say they never called
Merck and wouldn't know who to contact there; last summer, Jennifer Flinton
reported Jimmy's autism to the federal government's Vaccine Adverse Events
Reporting System, attributing it to the cumulative effects of vaccination.
The federal health employee she spoke to on the phone said she would follow
up by gathering lot numbers and other information on the vaccines.
The parents said their pediatrician, who conducted both of the
Merck-funded trials in Olympia, knew about their children's autism diagnoses
within months of their participation in January 2001 and October 2002.
The Olympia trials were part of wider Merck studies conducted at
several sites in the United States and abroad. Fanelle said Merck would not
disclose information about any other reports of autism.
"We have confirmed your original inquiry on whether we received the
two reports out of Olympia," she said. "We are not going to comment on
reports beyond this.
"There were more than 7,000 children in our ProQuad trials, 5,800 of
whom received ProQuad vaccine," she added.
Diana Sparby of the Western Institutional Review Board in Olympia said
it had not received reports of autism from the local ProQuad study, but she
noted the protocol "was not designed to assess long-term safety, as it
called for follow-up for only 42 days following vaccine administration."
The FDA, which approves drugs after determining they are safe and
effective and monitors reports of side effects after they come on the
market, did not respond to repeated inquiries from UPI about the Olympia
cases or parents' concerns about family chickenpox histories.
Other unusual histories in neighborhood families with autistic
children 6 and under:
-- Another child had roseola 12 weeks before getting his chickenpox
and MMR shots;
-- Another father had shingles as a teenager;
-- Another mother had chickenpox as an adult two years before her
pregnancy; -- A mother had chronic cold sores, also a herpesvirus, as
a child that were so severe they had to be treated medically;
In addition, another mother had a case of measles as an adult.
Merck, which manufactures the standard MMR shot and the standalone
Varivax chickenpox shot as well as the experimental vaccines used in the
clinical trials, said repeated studies show no relation between vaccines and
autism.
"We don't see an association," spokeswoman Fanelle said, citing as
confirmation a 2004 report by the widely respected Institute of Medicine,
part of the National Academies. That report rejected a link between autism
and either the MMR vaccine or the mercury-based preservative thimerosal. The
report also urged that research dollars be spent on "more promising" autism
research.
"There will always be some people who say vaccines cause autism
despite the lack of scientific evidence," Fanelle said.
In the United States, controversy over a possible link has centered on
thimerosal. Beginning in the late 1980s children were exposed to increasing
amounts of thimerosal, which is half ethyl mercury, as more vaccines were
mandated.
Thimerosal was phased out of routine childhood immunizations -- but
not all flu shots given to children and pregnant women -- beginning in 1999.
Although the Olympia children with autism were born after the phase-out was
recommended, their vaccine records show more than half of them got at least
one shot containing thimerosal during the first year of life. It is possible
all of them did, but incomplete information from manufacturers makes that
uncertain.
Chickenpox and MMR immunizations don't contain thimerosal because the
mercury would inactivate the viruses, but some proponents of a
vaccine-autism link suspect thimerosal exposure from other immunizations
could have a potentiating effect, damaging a child's defenses and paving the
way for live viruses to wreck havoc.

"I'll defend doctors to the end on this point. They are a convenient
front line for those agencies to hide behind -- it's just shameful."

All live-virus vaccines are attenuated -- significantly weakened based
on the theory that this creates immunity without causing the actual disease
or other adverse health consequences. Other vaccines on the U.S. childhood
immunization schedule, including hepatitis B and the polio shot, contain
killed or so-called inactivated viruses. Live polio virus was dropped in
2000 after health authorities determined it was actually causing polio in a
small number of cases.
Despite the Olympia parents' concern, none points an accusing finger
at doctors.
"I worry about pediatricians being vilified," said Rohrbeck. "We
vaccinated our son because we shared their faith that vaccines were safe.
"If it turns out that some vaccines are not safe for all children and
that these hazards could have been found with more rigorous testing -- or
worse, that the dangers were already known -- that's the fault of the CDC,
the FDA and the manufacturers," she said.
"I'll defend doctors to the end on this point. They are a convenient
front line for those agencies to hide behind -- it's just shameful."
The theory that live virus immunizations could trigger autism first
arose in 1998 in Britain, when gastroenterologist Dr. Andrew Wakefield
published a paper suggesting a possible association between childhood MMR
immunization, bowel disease and regressive autism.

"It's actually heartbreaking, listening to these parents, because
you're staring into an abyss," Wakefield said.

The premise: Interaction between viruses -- a well-known phenomenon
scientifically known as immune interference -- could depress a susceptible
child's immune system, lead to persistent infection by the measles virus in
the GI tract and possibly the nervous system itself, and trigger
autism-inducing brain damage. While the case has not been proven, it gains
plausibility from the fact that naturally occurring measles infection is
known to cause delayed brain damage in a small percentage of children,
proponents of the theory say.
Wakefield's study, and his plea in Britain to separate the component
measles, mumps and rubella (German measles) vaccines and administer them a
year apart to reduce possible risk, caused an uproar. Co-authors
subsequently repudiated part of the paper, conflict-of-interest allegations
emerged, and the prestigious Lancet, which originally published the study,
issued a statement calling it "fatally flawed."
Wakefield was asked to leave his medical job in Britain and is now
doing research in Austin, Texas.
After the Olympia cases were described to him by UPI in March,
Wakefield met with several of those parents at an autism conference in
Portland, Ore. He also read studies Merck cites as central to the FDA
approval of ProQuad.
"It's actually heartbreaking, listening to these parents, because
you're staring into an abyss," Wakefield said afterwards. "You're listening
to stories which reflect the fundamental misconception of vaccine
manufacturers of what viruses are and what they do. The whole perception of
these people is dangerously na?ve."
In contrast to the United States, British health authorities have not
recommended chickenpox immunization. But an MMR-chickenpox shot was under
discussion there at one point, and Wakefield said he warned its developers
that putting four live viruses in one shot was a bad idea.
He says the Olympia cases show why.
"As far as I'm concerned, you are further increasing the likelihood of
persistent infection and delayed disease, which they are never looking for
and therefore they will never find if it does occur, as it did clearly in a
relatively short space of time with some of these children, and it's never
ascribed to an adverse reaction to the vaccine."
On its Web site, the CDC says such concerns -- and Wakefield's studies
in particular -- are not based on good science.
"Current scientific evidence does not support the hypothesis that MMR
vaccine, or any combination of vaccines, causes the development of autism,
including regressive forms of autism," the CDC says.
"The existing studies that suggest a causal relationship between MMR
vaccine and autism have generated media attention. However, these studies
have significant weaknesses and are far outweighed by epidemiological
studies ... that have consistently failed to show a causal relationship
between MMR vaccine and autism."
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/autism/autism-mmr.htm

Dr. Jeff Bradstreet, a family practitioner in Florida who treats
3,000 autistic children and has worked with Wakefield, said he believes the
risk of autism rises the earlier and closertogether that live-virus vaccines
are administered. He warned the Institute of Medicine in 2004 that it was
ignoring the possibility that younger children are more vulnerable because
their immune and neurological systems are immature.
"There's definitely been an association of kids getting MMR at 12
months and crashing (becoming autistic)," Bradstreet said.
He said adding 10 times the standard dose of chickenpox virus, called
varicella-zoster, to the MMR shot and administering it to 1-year-olds is
playing with fire.
"We think putting varicella with MMR is just nuts."
British researcher Paul Shattock sees another reason to be concerned
with combining the four viruses: He suspects that children who get wild --
or naturally occurring -- chickenpox too close in time to the MMR shot face
a higher risk for autism. That's scenario parallels the one Olympia parents
noticed with the chickenpox vaccination.
Shattock, director of the Autism Research Unit in the School of
Sciences at the University of Sunderland, said he noticed that autistic
British children whose parents blame the MMR for triggering the disorder had
a pattern of "undisclosed viral illness" around the time of the shot.
He studied the records of 100 of those children, compared to 100
children whose parents did not cite the MMR as the trigger, to see if there
was a higher incidence of chickenpox cases three months before or after the
MMR immunization.
"Now, there was," Shattock said in an interview while attending an
autism conference this month in Washington, D.C. "It wasn't statistically
significant at the 95 percent level -- but enough to make you think that if
it was a huge study, it might be."

"There's no doubt the immune response to viruses is determined by our
genetic constitution," Wakefield said. "It may well be there is a
genetically determined predisposition to abnormal handling of chickenpox
virus, at least in children.

His concern about adding chickenpox to the MMR shot: "I'm worried
about it because of the interference of the vaccines, mainly because it
depresses the immune system by yet another mechanism."
A Merck scientist discussed that issue at a CDC meeting in 2004, the
year before ProQuad was approved, according to agency minutes. Dr. Florian
Schodel "confirmed the possibility" that the chickenpox virus component of
ProQuad was "causing a local immune suppression and an increase in measles
virus replication. ...
"The current hypothesis is that the varicella and measles virus are
co-infecting the same or proximate areas of the body and engaging in a
specific interaction, but how that works is as yet unknown."
He said the interference appeared to involve only the chickenpox and
measles viruses -- "there is no such effect for the mumps or rubella
vaccines administered locally at the same time."
At the same meeting, Merck's Dr. Barbara Keller said the amount of
chickenpox virus in ProQuad is "about a log" -- or 10 times -- higher than
Merck's standalone chickenpox vaccine, Varivax, in order to overcome immune
interference.
Both Wakefield and Shattock said the Olympia families' unusual
histories with chickenpox are worrisome because their children might have
inherited problems coping with the vaccine.
"There's no doubt the immune response to viruses is determined by our
genetic constitution," Wakefield said. "It may well be there is a
genetically determined predisposition to abnormal handling of chickenpox
virus, at least in children.
"This kind of phenomenon has been shown to (play a role in) measles.
The immune response to measles is determined by your genetic profile. It's
certainly consistent with what is known about the immune response to
viruses."
ProQuad is likely to be widely adopted by healthcare professionals who
previously administered separate MMR and Varivax shots.
"Use of licensed combination vaccines, such as (ProQuad), is preferred
to separate injection of their equivalent component vaccines," says the new
edition of the CDC's authoritative "Pink Book" on vaccine-preventable
diseases.
"When used, (the immunization) should be administered on or after the
first birthday, preferably as soon as the child becomes eligible for
vaccination."
This series of articles, based on reporting in Olympia in February and
March, tells the families' stories, looks at the scientific controversy and
examines implications for the autism-vaccine debate.
-- Next: "He has gone backward mentally ..."
-- E-mail:

David Wright
April 21st 06, 03:03 AM
In article >, john > wrote:
>The Age of Autism: Pox -- Part 1
>
>By Dan Olmsted for UPI
>http://tinyurl.com/qhcet
>
> Children in families with problematic reactions to chickenpox virus
>may be at risk for developing autism if they get that live-virus
>immunization too close to other live-virus vaccines, a three-month United
>Press International investigation of cases in one northwest U.S. city
>suggests.

Well, this just figures, doesn't it? They're getting their next
target warmed up, now that the mercury-autism theory is fading, and
the MMR-autism link isn't looking too good either.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

Peter Bowditch
April 21st 06, 05:13 AM
(David Wright) wrote:

>In article >, john > wrote:
>>The Age of Autism: Pox -- Part 1
>>
>>By Dan Olmsted for UPI
>>http://tinyurl.com/qhcet
>>
>> Children in families with problematic reactions to chickenpox virus
>>may be at risk for developing autism if they get that live-virus
>>immunization too close to other live-virus vaccines, a three-month United
>>Press International investigation of cases in one northwest U.S. city
>>suggests.
>
>Well, this just figures, doesn't it? They're getting their next
>target warmed up, now that the mercury-autism theory is fading, and
>the MMR-autism link isn't looking too good either.

So far it's been:

1. The first "M" in MMR.
2. The "R" in MMR.
3. The "mercury" in DTP.
4. Something in polio vaccine (but only transmitted to those who don't
die of cancer because of the SV40 virus).
5. Pasteurised milk. (My favourite - you can see why I trust Mercola)
6. Chicken pox vaccine (if given to a child).
7. The "mercury" in vaccines given to the FATHER (!), passed on
through sperm cells.
8. Other people taking drugs and transmitting it by shared
consciousness. (vide Gail of the Newsgroups)
9. Aluminium in vaccine adjuvants.
10. Fluoride in the water (Mercola again - I love his consistency)
11. Aspartame (must be true - I read in on whale.to)
12. MSG (keep the kids away from pizza!)
13. Dioxin (It's in Revelation 13 -
http://www.revelation13.net/KingJames10a.html)

et cetera and et seq



--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

john
April 21st 06, 07:11 AM
"Peter Bowditch" > wrote in message
...

>
> So far it's been:
>
> 1. The first "M" in MMR.
> 2. The "R" in MMR.
> 3. The "mercury" in DTP.
> 4. Something in polio vaccine (but only transmitted to those who don't
> die of cancer because of the SV40 virus).
> 5. Pasteurised milk. (My favourite - you can see why I trust Mercola)
> 6. Chicken pox vaccine (if given to a child).
> 7. The "mercury" in vaccines given to the FATHER (!), passed on
> through sperm cells.
> 8. Other people taking drugs and transmitting it by shared
> consciousness. (vide Gail of the Newsgroups)
> 9. Aluminium in vaccine adjuvants.
> 10. Fluoride in the water (Mercola again - I love his consistency)
> 11. Aspartame (must be true - I read in on whale.to)
> 12. MSG (keep the kids away from pizza!)
> 13. Dioxin (It's in Revelation 13 -
> http://www.revelation13.net/KingJames10a.html)
>
> et cetera and et seq

Brain damage isn't restricted to one agent

Max C.
April 21st 06, 05:26 PM
john wrote:
> "Peter Bowditch" > wrote in message
> ...

> Brain damage isn't restricted to one agent

Don't waste your time, John. There's not a single reader in this group
that considers that guy credible. As I proved a couple of weeks ago,
you can give the group 100% proof that he doesn't know what he's
talking about, then he'll change his position and act like his new
position was his meaning all along. I've plopped him into my ignore
list.

I'm happy to debate anyone with half a brain and that can follow a few
simple rules of debate. He doesn't qualify for either. He isn't worth
your time... and since no one here listens to him anyway, giving him
even a second of your time is more than he deserves.

Max.

vernon
April 21st 06, 06:39 PM
"Max C." > wrote in message
oups.com...
> john wrote:
>> "Peter Bowditch" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>> Brain damage isn't restricted to one agent
>
> Don't waste your time, John. There's not a single reader in this group
> that considers that guy credible. As I proved a couple of weeks ago,
> you can give the group 100% proof that he doesn't know what he's
> talking about, then he'll change his position and act like his new
> position was his meaning all along. I've plopped him into my ignore
> list.
>
> I'm happy to debate anyone with half a brain and that can follow a few
> simple rules of debate. He doesn't qualify for either. He isn't worth
> your time... and since no one here listens to him anyway, giving him
> even a second of your time is more than he deserves.
>
> Max.
>

For sure, For sure.

Peter Bowditch
April 22nd 06, 02:02 AM
"Max C." > wrote:

>john wrote:
>> "Peter Bowditch" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>> Brain damage isn't restricted to one agent
>
>Don't waste your time, John. There's not a single reader in this group
>that considers that guy credible. As I proved a couple of weeks ago,
>you can give the group 100% proof that he doesn't know what he's
>talking about, then he'll change his position and act like his new
>position was his meaning all along. I've plopped him into my ignore
>list.

I knew that Max had run away when he stopped replying to me. He hasn't
talked to me since he said that it "didn't make sense" that Nobel
Laureates gave lectures and challenged me to give an example of one
that had done so. He even told me to find some evidence on the Nobel
web site. Apparently
http://nobelprize.org/nobel/nobel-foundation/publications/lectures/index.html
was too much of a strain on his brain.

>I'm happy to debate anyone with half a brain and that can follow a few
>simple rules of debate. He doesn't qualify for either. He isn't worth
>your time... and since no one here listens to him anyway, giving him
>even a second of your time is more than he deserves.

Here's an example of debate with Max:

Max: "Show us all here how giving a 15 page lecture to those giving a
Nobel Prize is customary. I'm not just going to take your word for it,
especially since it doesn't even make sense. The web site is right
there. Find some other Nobel Laureates that gave lectures to the
audience upon receiving an award. If it's customary, it should be easy
to prove your point".

PB:
http://nobelprize.org/nobel/nobel-foundation/publications/lectures/index.html

Game, set, match to PB. Max runs and hides.

In the words of the philosopher Bugs Bunny, "Watta maroon. What an
ignoranamus".

--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

john
April 22nd 06, 11:23 AM
"Max C." > wrote in message
oups.com...
> john wrote:
>> "Peter Bowditch" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>> Brain damage isn't restricted to one agent
>
> Don't waste your time, John. There's not a single reader in this group
> that considers that guy credible. As I proved a couple of weeks ago,
> you can give the group 100% proof that he doesn't know what he's
> talking about, then he'll change his position and act like his new
> position was his meaning all along. I've plopped him into my ignore
> list.
>
> I'm happy to debate anyone with half a brain and that can follow a few
> simple rules of debate. He doesn't qualify for either. He isn't worth
> your time... and since no one here listens to him anyway, giving him
> even a second of your time is more than he deserves.
>
> Max.
>

I agree, it would be interesting to find out how many people read newgroups.
I did find it once.

I use pharma boys to find out if I have any areas I don't have an answer
for, but I reached that place a few years back

I use Wikidpedia now, as the pharma boys there are a bit higher up the food
chain in pharma land

vernon
April 22nd 06, 01:34 PM
"john" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Max C." > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> john wrote:
>>> "Peter Bowditch" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>> Brain damage isn't restricted to one agent
>>
>> Don't waste your time, John. There's not a single reader in this group
>> that considers that guy credible. As I proved a couple of weeks ago,
>> you can give the group 100% proof that he doesn't know what he's
>> talking about, then he'll change his position and act like his new
>> position was his meaning all along. I've plopped him into my ignore
>> list.
>>
>> I'm happy to debate anyone with half a brain and that can follow a few
>> simple rules of debate. He doesn't qualify for either. He isn't worth
>> your time... and since no one here listens to him anyway, giving him
>> even a second of your time is more than he deserves.
>>
>> Max.
>>
>
> I agree, it would be interesting to find out how many people read
> newgroups. I did find it once.
>
> I use pharma boys to find out if I have any areas I don't have an answer
> for, but I reached that place a few years back
>
> I use Wikidpedia now, as the pharma boys there are a bit higher up the
> food chain in pharma land

The problem with Wikipedia is that it uses p.c. language and commonly "used"
and mundane terminology and thus can be misleading.

David Wright
April 22nd 06, 07:53 PM
In article >, john > wrote:
>
>"Peter Bowditch" > wrote in message
...
>
>> So far it's been:
>>
>> 1. The first "M" in MMR.
>> 2. The "R" in MMR.
>> 3. The "mercury" in DTP.
>> 4. Something in polio vaccine (but only transmitted to those who don't
>> die of cancer because of the SV40 virus).
>> 5. Pasteurised milk. (My favourite - you can see why I trust Mercola)
>> 6. Chicken pox vaccine (if given to a child).
>> 7. The "mercury" in vaccines given to the FATHER (!), passed on
>> through sperm cells.
>> 8. Other people taking drugs and transmitting it by shared
>> consciousness. (vide Gail of the Newsgroups)
>> 9. Aluminium in vaccine adjuvants.
>> 10. Fluoride in the water (Mercola again - I love his consistency)
>> 11. Aspartame (must be true - I read in on whale.to)
>> 12. MSG (keep the kids away from pizza!)
>> 13. Dioxin (It's in Revelation 13 -
>> http://www.revelation13.net/KingJames10a.html)
>>
>> et cetera and et seq
>
>Brain damage isn't restricted to one agent

I blame yours on the supposedly harmless case of measles you had as a
schoolboy. But I admit it's a guess.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

David Wright
April 22nd 06, 07:54 PM
In article . com>,
Max C. > wrote:
>john wrote:
>> "Peter Bowditch" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>> Brain damage isn't restricted to one agent
>
>Don't waste your time, John. There's not a single reader in this group
>that considers that guy credible.

Peter Bowditch, not credible? Ha ha ha. You, on the other hand, have
lost major credibility with your fawning admiration of the ghastly
whale.to site.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

fultonx2@msn.com
April 23rd 06, 09:48 PM
Hello,
I am the parent of one of the children in the Olympia cluster. I
completely understand skepticism and doubt surrounding this issue, but
I wanted to state that the association we are describing relates to the
ongoing theory that the doctors treating kids medically have held for
years. I just wanted to state that Olmsted is only reporting what we
shared with him based on months of collecting records, interviewing
families, observing children, etc. The associations we found were
striking -- all the kids had several common denominators surrounding
viral illness, mercury in their old batches of vaccines, and a toxic
neighborhood.

I am not a vaccine zealot -- I still believe in vaccination. I just
don't think I'd let anyone vaccinate my newborn again - I'd delay. And
I certainly wouldn't vaccinate my child while he had a cold (I did at 2
and 4 months).

Most people miss this: the credible MDs who are skilled in using
medical interventions for Autistic kids shake their heads when people
walk in their offices and say -- "Let's chelate! Once the mercury is
out we'll be all set" -- they know it's a combination of genes, toxic
exposure and chronic illness.

My own child has seen one of the best doctors in the US, and at our
first appointment he clearly told me to get over that whole idea that
chelation was a cure in itself. The theory, for which there is evidence
from both past and current academic sources (I can forward - the list
is lengthy), is that high-levels of mercury damage the immune system
and the CNS and that as a result, the weakened infant crashes when the
live viruses are introduced. The gut gets damaged (most parents I know
with autistic children know what chronic diarrhea looks like) and the
child doesn't get nutrients - often for many months before anyone
recognizes it.

I have watched my son, who was diagnosed with full-syndrome autism by a
clinical psychologist at the University of Washington Autism Center
lose his diagnosis. They have admitted to me that he is not the first
such child they have seen. The common thread: these kids were treated
by skilled doctors who knew how to recognize chronic viral illness
combined with poisoning (lead and mercury in our son's case).

That said, I understand the fury over these theories. I wouldn't
believe it if I hadn't lived it, and I'd be sick of hearing it if I
were the parent of an older child with Autism.

Olmsted is a good man - he's just asking questions. Glad you guys took
interest.

D




David Wright wrote:
> In article . com>,
> Max C. > wrote:
> >john wrote:
> >> "Peter Bowditch" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >
> >> Brain damage isn't restricted to one agent
> >
> >Don't waste your time, John. There's not a single reader in this group
> >that considers that guy credible.
>
> Peter Bowditch, not credible? Ha ha ha. You, on the other hand, have
> lost major credibility with your fawning admiration of the ghastly
> whale.to site.
>
> -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
> These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
> "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
> -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

Max C.
April 24th 06, 03:01 PM
David Wright wrote:

> I blame yours on the supposedly harmless case of measles you had as a
> schoolboy. But I admit it's a guess.

Personal attacks = inability to debate using verifiable data. And you
concern yourself with *my* credibility?

Max.

David Wright
April 25th 06, 02:34 AM
In article om>,
Max C. > wrote:
>David Wright wrote:
>
>> I blame yours on the supposedly harmless case of measles you had as a
>> schoolboy. But I admit it's a guess.
>
>Personal attacks = inability to debate using verifiable data. And you
>concern yourself with *my* credibility?

Certainly. But john-boy wasn't engaging in a debate. He never really
does; he just throws up a smokescreen of quotations.

And I'll take to heart your chastising me for "personal attacks" when
I see you being equally severe with john and with PeterB, big guy.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

David Wright
May 3rd 06, 03:54 AM
In article . com>,
> wrote:
>Hello,
>I am the parent of one of the children in the Olympia cluster. I
>completely understand skepticism and doubt surrounding this issue, but
>I wanted to state that the association we are describing relates to the
>ongoing theory that the doctors treating kids medically have held for
>years. I just wanted to state that Olmsted is only reporting what we
>shared with him based on months of collecting records, interviewing
>families, observing children, etc. The associations we found were
>striking -- all the kids had several common denominators surrounding
>viral illness, mercury in their old batches of vaccines, and a toxic
>neighborhood.
>
>I am not a vaccine zealot -- I still believe in vaccination. I just
>don't think I'd let anyone vaccinate my newborn again - I'd delay. And
>I certainly wouldn't vaccinate my child while he had a cold (I did at 2
>and 4 months).
>
>Most people miss this: the credible MDs who are skilled in using
>medical interventions for Autistic kids shake their heads when people
>walk in their offices and say -- "Let's chelate! Once the mercury is
>out we'll be all set" -- they know it's a combination of genes, toxic
>exposure and chronic illness.
>
>My own child has seen one of the best doctors in the US, and at our
>first appointment he clearly told me to get over that whole idea that
>chelation was a cure in itself. The theory, for which there is evidence
>from both past and current academic sources (I can forward - the list
>is lengthy), is that high-levels of mercury damage the immune system
>and the CNS and that as a result, the weakened infant crashes when the
>live viruses are introduced. The gut gets damaged (most parents I know
>with autistic children know what chronic diarrhea looks like) and the
>child doesn't get nutrients - often for many months before anyone
>recognizes it.
>
>I have watched my son, who was diagnosed with full-syndrome autism by a
>clinical psychologist at the University of Washington Autism Center
>lose his diagnosis. They have admitted to me that he is not the first
>such child they have seen. The common thread: these kids were treated
>by skilled doctors who knew how to recognize chronic viral illness
>combined with poisoning (lead and mercury in our son's case).
>
>That said, I understand the fury over these theories. I wouldn't
>believe it if I hadn't lived it, and I'd be sick of hearing it if I
>were the parent of an older child with Autism.
>
>Olmsted is a good man - he's just asking questions. Glad you guys took
>interest.

Olmstead has a major-league agenda, though.

Don't get me wrong, and I think it's great that your son is doing much
better. But your posting raises many questions, like where did your
son encounter all this lead and mercury? And what viral diseases was
he suffering from? (I was also wondering about treatment, since there
frequently isn't much to be done in treating viral diseases, which is
why we vaccinate in the first place!)

You said something about a "toxic neighborhood," which suggests
industrial wastes or something of the sort. Is that the case here?

I'm also OK with the idea of not vaccinating kids when they are sick,
and perhaps doing it a bit later than the recommended schedule (I
still don't understand the need to vaccinate newborns, for example).

Anyway, I'd be very interested if you'd amplify on your posting
above. This is much more specific than people usually get; mostly,
it's just someone fulminating about "mercury in the MMR vaccine" (and
that vaccine contains no mercury and never has.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth



>David Wright wrote:
>> In article . com>,
>> Max C. > wrote:
>> >john wrote:
>> >> "Peter Bowditch" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >
>> >> Brain damage isn't restricted to one agent
>> >
>> >Don't waste your time, John. There's not a single reader in this group
>> >that considers that guy credible.
>>
>> Peter Bowditch, not credible? Ha ha ha. You, on the other hand, have
>> lost major credibility with your fawning admiration of the ghastly
>> whale.to site.
>>
>> -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
>> These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
>> "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
>> -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
>