OT, Need advice. (kinda long)

[Denise~*]

OK, this is another "mom problem" post, but this time I actually wrote a
letter & would like it critiqued. (letter below)

Basically, what happened is we had planned on having DS stay at my moms
the entire day while we went to a wedding on Sat, and we were also going
to go to a few places in the city before the wedding since I rarely get
a chance to do that sort of thing, but maybe once a month or less. I
just found out she had a baby shower she was going to go to where she
was taking my sisters 6YO twins.

First, the family who's throwing this b-shower is an OK family, but it
would not be your typical "ladies luncheon" type b-shower. It would be
liken to a "party". Since my Mom is, well, who she is, instead of
trying to explain my feelings to her about it all, I just changed my
plans & told her we would be bringing DS over at 5:00, because taking
him over early on Saturday would be a PITA. Essentially, she wouldn't
have to take him to the b-shower & she would have him in the evening
only. Even though she persisted a little in wanting to bring DS with, I
did too and I thought that was the end of it after that conversation.

Yesterday I called to tell her I was going to bring a gift over (for the
Mother) on Friday so she could bring it with her on Saturday. She
informed me that she was thinking of picking up DS early on Saturday so
she could 'bring him along'. I was then stuck, I tried to blow it off,
but it didn't work, so I ended up having to tell her the we didn't want
DS going. It turned into a really bad argument, with accusations
flying. Basically, her normal ****y self. The letter explains it
pretty well, but now I have an angry mom & I want to smooth things over
without "buckling" in how we feel.

Ohh, and I blamed our decision to not let DS go on DH first, thats why
there is the particular accusation of 'hatred', but she always thought
that anyway, but never really came out & said it out-right. She doesn't
'get' that DH is fairly reserved & if you don't talk about computers or
cars, he has nothing much to say to you.

Maybe we are too protective, but really I don't care. Better to be that
way than not IMO.

Ohh, and this also goes into our Potty training issues with DS. (bleah)
We had to start him on a mineral oil diet because of him 'holding it' &
causing constipation. Ohh, the joys of motherhood!

*Letter to mom*

I know you think [DH] is a horrible person, and he is not. His
reasoning for not wanting you to take [DS] to the party has nothing to
do with YOU. It has to do with [DS] and how we feel about the type of
situation [DS] would presumably be in.

I wanted to explain this earlier on the phone, but you wouldn't give me
the chance. You kept making accusations that were just not true and
that were making me flustered, ****ed & really upset. I cried for at
least 2 hours after getting off the phone because I was so upset. Even
[DS] got upset & cried because I was pretty much uncontrollable & I
couldn't leave the room ([DH] was not home yet) I tried to stop, but I
couldn't.

First of all, [DH] does not hate you. That's ridiculous.
He doesn't have anything in common with you & he is just a quiet person.
You continually think [DH] hates everybody & it's just not true.

Second, we don't think anybody is a "Heathen". Also ridiculous. [DH]
barely knows the [moms extended family], so how can he make a judgment
on them? That is not even a factor in this whole situation & it is way
off-base as to why he doesn't feel comfortable with [DS] going to the
party.

Right now, [DS] can disappear in a flash. He may be almost 4, but he
doesn't always "run with the crowd" of kids. He is very curious & will
easily just meander off by himself.

I know there will be lots of people at the party & that's the way
parties are. When it comes to parties where adults are socializing &
kids are playing, and a kid goes missing, there is always the chance of
"I thought you were watching him" happening. This just happened to a
little girl last summer & she had drowned in the lake nearby. On the
news they said the family all though somebody else was watching her &
she just disappeared. That freaks us out.

Basically, this could be any party at anybodies house & he would still
be uncomfortable with it unless he was there to watch [DS] himself (or
me of course).

Second, he is still in active potty training & having accidents if he is
not asked every couple hours to sit, and also sit for several minutes in
order to try to go #2. I thought it would be easier if you only had him
for a few hours in a more controlled situation instead of the entire
day, just because you will be busy at the party socializing & watching
[R & R] also. Plus, if he has an accident with #2, they are very,
VERY, messy right now since we are feeding him mineral oil every day.
Were talking, poopie down the legs and all over if he doesn't do it in
the toilet first. The last few times he has had a #2 accident
(including today), I had to shower or bath him just to get it all off
because it's just SOO messy.

The mineral oil taints everything, including his skin, an orange color.
His undies have to be scraped out & put in a bleach water bath along
with any wash towels that you clean him up with. Today I had him
sitting for over 15 minutes on the potty & he went #1. Five minutes
after finishing, he poopied himself.

He is still very often refusing to sit unless you get a little mean with
him (such as threatening to take away a toy if he doesn't sit) He knows
"Mommy & Daddy" are serious when we say that & it's often the only way
we can get him to sit.

I didn't want to go into explaining all of this, because I didn't think
you would understand & when you don't understand something directly, you
tend to argue and fly off the handle with accusations which does not
give me the chance to me explain things properly and makes it hard for
me to talk because I get so flustered having to defend myself, [DH], etc...

Lastly, I will admit, I don't feel comfortable with it either, but [DH]
was the one that brought it up, and I had agreed with him that at this
time it is not the best thing to do, for [DS]'s sake.

Overall, I can only hope that you can respect our decisions as Parents &
what we decide is best for our children.

P.S. Last night when I told [DH] you though he hated you, he gave me a
funny look & said something along the lines of "you're kidding!?"

*end letter*

Well?

[Jamie Clark]

Denise~* wrote:
> OK, this is another "mom problem" post, but this time I actually
> wrote a letter & would like it critiqued. (letter below)
>
> Basically, what happened is we had planned on having DS stay at my
> moms the entire day while we went to a wedding on Sat, and we were
> also going to go to a few places in the city before the wedding since
> I rarely get a chance to do that sort of thing, but maybe once a month or
> less. I
> just found out she had a baby shower she was going to go to where she
> was taking my sisters 6YO twins.
>
> First, the family who's throwing this b-shower is an OK family, but it
> would not be your typical "ladies luncheon" type b-shower. It would
> be liken to a "party". Since my Mom is, well, who she is, instead of
> trying to explain my feelings to her about it all, I just changed my
> plans & told her we would be bringing DS over at 5:00, because taking
> him over early on Saturday would be a PITA. Essentially, she wouldn't
> have to take him to the b-shower & she would have him in the evening
> only. Even though she persisted a little in wanting to bring DS
> with, I did too and I thought that was the end of it after that
> conversation.
> Yesterday I called to tell her I was going to bring a gift over (for
> the Mother) on Friday so she could bring it with her on Saturday. She
> informed me that she was thinking of picking up DS early on Saturday
> so she could 'bring him along'. I was then stuck, I tried to blow it
> off, but it didn't work, so I ended up having to tell her the we
> didn't want DS going. It turned into a really bad argument, with
> accusations
> flying. Basically, her normal ****y self. The letter explains it
> pretty well, but now I have an angry mom & I want to smooth things
> over without "buckling" in how we feel.
>
> Ohh, and I blamed our decision to not let DS go on DH first, thats why
> there is the particular accusation of 'hatred', but she always thought
> that anyway, but never really came out & said it out-right. She
> doesn't 'get' that DH is fairly reserved & if you don't talk about
> computers or cars, he has nothing much to say to you.
>
> Maybe we are too protective, but really I don't care. Better to be
> that way than not IMO.
>
> Ohh, and this also goes into our Potty training issues with DS.
> (bleah) We had to start him on a mineral oil diet because of him 'holding
> it'
> & causing constipation. Ohh, the joys of motherhood!
>
> *Letter to mom*
>
> I know you think [DH] is a horrible person, and he is not. His
> reasoning for not wanting you to take [DS] to the party has nothing to
> do with YOU. It has to do with [DS] and how we feel about the type of
> situation [DS] would presumably be in.
>
> I wanted to explain this earlier on the phone, but you wouldn't give
> me the chance. You kept making accusations that were just not true
> and that were making me flustered, ****ed & really upset. I cried for at
> least 2 hours after getting off the phone because I was so upset. Even
> [DS] got upset & cried because I was pretty much uncontrollable
> & I couldn't leave the room ([DH] was not home yet) I tried to stop,
> but I couldn't.
>
> First of all, [DH] does not hate you. That's ridiculous.
> He doesn't have anything in common with you & he is just a quiet
> person. You continually think [DH] hates everybody & it's just not
> true.
> Second, we don't think anybody is a "Heathen". Also ridiculous. [DH]
> barely knows the [moms extended family], so how can he make a judgment
> on them? That is not even a factor in this whole situation & it is
> way off-base as to why he doesn't feel comfortable with [DS] going to
> the party.
>
> Right now, [DS] can disappear in a flash. He may be almost 4, but he
> doesn't always "run with the crowd" of kids. He is very curious &
> will easily just meander off by himself.
>
> I know there will be lots of people at the party & that's the way
> parties are. When it comes to parties where adults are socializing &
> kids are playing, and a kid goes missing, there is always the chance
> of "I thought you were watching him" happening. This just happened
> to a little girl last summer & she had drowned in the lake nearby. On the
> news they said the family all though somebody else was watching her &
> she just disappeared. That freaks us out.
>
> Basically, this could be any party at anybodies house & he would still
> be uncomfortable with it unless he was there to watch [DS] himself (or
> me of course).
>
> Second, he is still in active potty training & having accidents if he
> is not asked every couple hours to sit, and also sit for several
> minutes in order to try to go #2. I thought it would be easier if
> you only had him for a few hours in a more controlled situation
> instead of the entire day, just because you will be busy at the party
> socializing & watching
> [R & R] also. Plus, if he has an accident with #2, they are very,
> VERY, messy right now since we are feeding him mineral oil every day.
> Were talking, poopie down the legs and all over if he doesn't do it in
> the toilet first. The last few times he has had a #2 accident
> (including today), I had to shower or bath him just to get it all off
> because it's just SOO messy.
>
> The mineral oil taints everything, including his skin, an orange
> color. His undies have to be scraped out & put in a bleach water
> bath along with any wash towels that you clean him up with. Today I had
> him
> sitting for over 15 minutes on the potty & he went #1. Five minutes
> after finishing, he poopied himself.
>
> He is still very often refusing to sit unless you get a little mean
> with him (such as threatening to take away a toy if he doesn't sit)
> He knows "Mommy & Daddy" are serious when we say that & it's often
> the only way we can get him to sit.
>
> I didn't want to go into explaining all of this, because I didn't
> think you would understand & when you don't understand something
> directly, you tend to argue and fly off the handle with accusations
> which does not give me the chance to me explain things properly and makes
> it hard for
> me to talk because I get so flustered having to defend myself, [DH],
> etc...
> Lastly, I will admit, I don't feel comfortable with it either, but
> [DH] was the one that brought it up, and I had agreed with him that
> at this time it is not the best thing to do, for [DS]'s sake.
>
> Overall, I can only hope that you can respect our decisions as
> Parents & what we decide is best for our children.
>
> P.S. Last night when I told [DH] you though he hated you, he gave me
> a funny look & said something along the lines of "you're kidding!?"
>
> *end letter*
>
> Well?

I think it's a good vent and purge letter, but not one that I would send.
It's not going to help matters any. First of all, you can't say or do
anything that is going is going to make it all better with your mom. She is
not going to respect your decision, regardless of what reasons you have.
And stating your reasons will only give her ammunition to try to solve each
and every issue. Also, these types of letters are best kept in the "I feel,
I think, I reacted" rather than accusitory. In several different places you
say, "You kept making accusations that weren't true" which means you are
calling her a liar, something that usually makes people defensive. You also
wrote, "you tend to argue and fly off the handle," again, something that
most people might take offense at, regardless of how accurate it is. Also,
in regards to the party, you are basically accusing her of being potentially
neglectful and allowing harm to come to your child, which again, even if
true, would offend and upset most grandparents.

Also, you say that you hardly know these people so aren't judging them, but
of course you are judging them. You say it's less a "baby shower luncheon"
and more of a "party," and you don't want to have your kid around them.

With all that in mind, I don't think you should send this letter.
Unfortunately, to me, your choices are the following -- have one of you stay
home with DS while the other goes to the wedding, or, see if you can bring
DS to the wedding and leave early, or, don't go to the wedding, or, scramble
and see if there is someone else you can leave DS with for the time of the
wedding, or, finally, stand your ground and drop DS off at your mom's after
5pm.

If you still want your mom to watch him (either because you have no choice,
or because you don't want to lose the convenience factor of grandma as
babysitter), then you need to be breif and to the point, whether it's via
telephone, e-mail, or what not. "DS will be at a playdate with a friend
until late afternoon, so I'll be dropping him off at your house around 5pm.
See you on Saturday." She's doing you a favor in babysitting him, and you
can't really ask her to change her plans. You either trust her with your
kid, or you don't. If you don't, then don't have her babysit at all. If
you do, then explain all the various potty training issues, what needs to be
done, and let her deal with it, even if it ends in an ugly explosive mess.

If you opt for an option that does not involve your mother babysitting, I'd
expand the letter a bit (but just a bit):

"Mom,
We've made other arrangements for Saturday for DS. Thanks again for
offering to take him to the party, and watch him while we were at the
wedding. I'm sorry that we got into a big argument yesterday. Have a good
time at the baby shower. Say hello to X for me."

Finally, you know that your mom and dh don't get along, so stop "blaming"
him for decisions that you know that your mom won't like. Even if it is ALL
his decision, you have to present it to your mom as a united front -- "WE
have decided..." rather than "DH doesn't want to do such and such." Because
to do anything else makes it sound like you wanted to do one thing, but dh
is the bad guy, the heavy, and won't let you. It pits you and your mother
against the common bad buy, dh. But if you and dh stand together, you are a
united front.
--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03
Addison Grace, 9/30/04

Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
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your own User ID and Password

[Denise~*]

Jamie Clark wrote:

I don't feel right just letting her think DH hates her, etc... We have
no choice but have her watch DS Saturday eve. There is nobody else,
children are not invited to the wedding & we are both going. I feel
like I need to do something.

[Jamie Clark]

Denise~* wrote:
> Jamie Clark wrote:
>
> I don't feel right just letting her think DH hates her, etc... We
> have no choice but have her watch DS Saturday eve. There is nobody
> else, children are not invited to the wedding & we are both going. I
> feel like I need to do something.

Do you really think that she honestly believes that dh hates her, or is this
a red herring that she throws out to distract you when she wants to get her
way? Either which way, I'd deal with this issue in person at some point,
rather than in e-mail.

"You know mom, I've really been thinking about what you said about dh not
liking you (downplay the hate word/concept). I'm not sure where you got
that idea. You know dh, he's shy and quiet and doesn't talk much, even to
his own family. He probably feels like he doesn't have much in common with
you and just doesn't know what to say. You know he's never been much into
small talk. He's like this with everyone, including his own family, unless
they are into cars or computers. He's always been this way, and I promise,
he does not dislike you."

Then, I'd ask dh to make a little bit more of an effort with your mom --
learn to make sure to say hello and goodbye to her each time he sees her,
and ask specific small talk questions or comments, and rotate them when he
sees your mom. Again, unless you think she's just a manipulative drama
queen, in which case I wouldn't ask dh to change his behavior.
--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03
Addison Grace, 9/30/04

Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up
your own User ID and Password

[V.]

"Jamie Clark" > wrote in message
...
> Denise~* wrote:
> > Jamie Clark wrote:
> >
> > I don't feel right just letting her think DH hates her, etc... We
> > have no choice but have her watch DS Saturday eve. There is nobody
> > else, children are not invited to the wedding & we are both going. I
> > feel like I need to do something.
>
> Do you really think that she honestly believes that dh hates her, or is
this
> a red herring that she throws out to distract you when she wants to get
her
> way? Either which way, I'd deal with this issue in person at some point,
> rather than in e-mail.
>
> "You know mom, I've really been thinking about what you said about dh not
> liking you (downplay the hate word/concept). I'm not sure where you got
> that idea. You know dh, he's shy and quiet and doesn't talk much, even to
> his own family. He probably feels like he doesn't have much in common
with
> you and just doesn't know what to say. You know he's never been much into
> small talk. He's like this with everyone, including his own family,
unless
> they are into cars or computers. He's always been this way, and I
promise,
> he does not dislike you."
>
> Then, I'd ask dh to make a little bit more of an effort with your mom --
> learn to make sure to say hello and goodbye to her each time he sees her,
> and ask specific small talk questions or comments, and rotate them when he
> sees your mom. Again, unless you think she's just a manipulative drama
> queen, in which case I wouldn't ask dh to change his behavior.
> --
>
> Jamie
> Earth Angels:
> Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03
> Addison Grace, 9/30/04
>
>

Just wanted to add my $0.02; I agree with everything Jamie said. Your
letter was good for you to write, but not to send. You put things off on DH
way too much, which allows mom to "split" the two of you and blame DH. Even
if you don't agree with him (but you do!), you need to present a united
front. Never, ever, ever say "when I told DH you said..." she'd get really
defensive that you told DH even though most people could assume you would
share with DH...it's just not something you point out.
I think you could just put it off onto the potty training issue. "sorry we
had a misunderstanding about Sat....DS just can't go to a party right now
because of the potty training...he'd get too nervous to go #2 in a strange
house with people around" (probably true anyway, and a convenient fiction
even if not true).

HTH,
amy

[Nina Pretty Ballerina]

"Jamie Clark" > wrote in message
...
> Denise~* wrote:
>> Jamie Clark wrote:
>>
>> I don't feel right just letting her think DH hates her, etc... We
>> have no choice but have her watch DS Saturday eve. There is nobody
>> else, children are not invited to the wedding & we are both going. I
>> feel like I need to do something.
>
> Do you really think that she honestly believes that dh hates her, or is
> this a red herring that she throws out to distract you when she wants to
> get her way? Either which way, I'd deal with this issue in person at some
> point, rather than in e-mail.
>
> "You know mom, I've really been thinking about what you said about dh not
> liking you (downplay the hate word/concept). I'm not sure where you got
> that idea. You know dh, he's shy and quiet and doesn't talk much, even to
> his own family. He probably feels like he doesn't have much in common
> with you and just doesn't know what to say. You know he's never been much
> into small talk. He's like this with everyone, including his own family,
> unless they are into cars or computers. He's always been this way, and I
> promise, he does not dislike you."
>
> Then, I'd ask dh to make a little bit more of an effort with your mom --
> learn to make sure to say hello and goodbye to her each time he sees her,
> and ask specific small talk questions or comments, and rotate them when he
> sees your mom. Again, unless you think she's just a manipulative drama
> queen, in which case I wouldn't ask dh to change his behavior.
> --
>
> Jamie
> Earth Angels:
> Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03
> Addison Grace, 9/30/04
>
> Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
> Password: Guest Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up
> your own User ID and Password
>
>

ooo, that jamie is a wise woman!! do everything she says!! (genuine, not
sarcastic, just in case you were worried)

i wouldnt send the letter quite as is either.

if you do decide to send it, put some priase of her in it, like 'DH & i
really appreciate that you look after DS, he loves you so much and has
agreat time with you' or whatever. start with something nice.

i'd also trim it right down to um, exactly what jamie wrote

chris

[Denise~*]

Thanks everybody for your advice. I did not send the letter & decided
to call her tonight. It really did need to be a phone conversation,
because 'in person' I don't believe would have worked well & this needed
to be resolved before I showed up on Saturday.

The discussion in the beginning was pretty bad. She was still angry &
is not a person who hides her anger (or can control it very well). I was
just trying to talk out our issues & she was making it difficult by
doing her usual verbal attacks about how horrible of a person I am
because of all of this, etc... I was determined & was trying to tame
the conversation (well, trying to get her to calm down & listen to me,
that is), but it wasn't working at first & it wasn't until I started
heavily crying (not on purpose mind you, it was real & to the point of
hyperventilation) that she finally calmed down & listened. Hopefully
she understands now that I am being honest about my feelings & not just
saying stuff to get her to calm down or change her mind about the whole
mess. I think she also felt guilty for making me cry & maybe, just
maybe she now understands that I wasn't 'personally attacking her' for
not wanting DS to go to the party with her.

It wrapped up OK in the end. We both agreed to work on our issues.

[Jamie Clark]

Denise~* wrote:
> Thanks everybody for your advice. I did not send the letter & decided
> to call her tonight. It really did need to be a phone conversation,
> because 'in person' I don't believe would have worked well & this
> needed to be resolved before I showed up on Saturday.
>
> The discussion in the beginning was pretty bad. She was still angry &
> is not a person who hides her anger (or can control it very well). I
> was just trying to talk out our issues & she was making it difficult
> by doing her usual verbal attacks about how horrible of a person I am
> because of all of this, etc... I was determined & was trying to tame
> the conversation (well, trying to get her to calm down & listen to me,
> that is), but it wasn't working at first & it wasn't until I started
> heavily crying (not on purpose mind you, it was real & to the point of
> hyperventilation) that she finally calmed down & listened. Hopefully
> she understands now that I am being honest about my feelings & not
> just saying stuff to get her to calm down or change her mind about
> the whole mess. I think she also felt guilty for making me cry &
> maybe, just maybe she now understands that I wasn't 'personally
> attacking her' for not wanting DS to go to the party with her.
>
> It wrapped up OK in the end. We both agreed to work on our issues.

I'm glad you worked it out.
--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03
Addison Grace, 9/30/04

Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up
your own User ID and Password

[[email protected]]

Denise~* wrote:
> OK, this is another "mom problem" post, but this time I actually wrote a
> letter & would like it critiqued. (letter below)
>
<SNIP>
>
> *end letter*
>
> Well?

Easy,

1. Take responsibility for your own actions. It was wrong to put the
blame of your decisions on your husband. You should correct that right
away. Your mother can't phantom that her own daughter is such a bitch,
thus her accusations supporting your husband.

2. You got to understand her position. You basically stated that you
don't trust her parenting capabilities and decision making. Don't
forget, this is the same woman that raised you.

You should have just let her have your son for the day. I believe
parents today are way over protective of their children which will
probably hinder them later on. I mean how many times have we seen the
wet wipes come out just because the child touched the floor?

I grew up without seatbelts, helmets, wet wipes, child seats, plastic
outlet covers, door latches, etc. and I survived.

Regards...