As I have reported...

[0:->]

....the actual rate of child abuse is of far greater magnitude than is
official reported.

That child abuse of all kinds is under reported and when reported under
investigated is a fact.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/104/1/S1/168

" Comparison of Estimates of Child Maltreatment, 1993-1995

Enumerating reported cases of child abuse and neglect is merely one way
to assess the magnitude of the problem. Compared with other medical
conditions during childhood, the data indicate that more children are
affected by maltreatment than all other serious illnesses combined.
There also are many cases of abused and neglected children that do not
come to the attention of social service agencies. For example, in
studies of child abuse homicide, only 13% to 35% of the victims have
physical evidence or documented history of maltreatment.9,10 Waiting for
children to be identified by child protective services presumes that
"all abused children are detected, and second, that abuse is repetitive".10

In 1995, the Gallup Organization conducted a nationwide survey of
parents, exploring the means and range of "discipline" experienced by
children throughout the United States.11 Parents' self-reported
behaviors of apparent physical abuse occurred at a rate sixteen times
the official rate of abuse (Table 1). Levels of sexual abuse perpetrated
by an adult or older child known to the parent were greater than 10
times the official rate.

These statistics should serve notice that reported cases represent the
lower end of the confidence interval for abuse and neglect. Errors of
false-negative assessment are far more likely to be occurring than are
errors of false-positive reports."

(chart for above narrative at:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content-nw/full/104/1/S1/168/T1 )

As this information covers only the years of 93-95 it is unlikely the
numbers have decreased, but more likely, given the population increase,
these have gone up as well in the ensuing years.

For those of you that think "spanking" is not involved, have a look at
what Gallup was surveying: [from the above quote]

"... the Gallup Organization conducted a nationwide survey of parents,
exploring the means and range of "discipline" experienced by children
throughout the United States.11 Parents' self-reported behaviors of
apparent physical abuse occurred at a rate sixteen times the official
rate of abuse (Table 1)."

Sixteen times? Now try to figure out if there were actually a 1,000, to
2,000 fatalities AND hundreds of thousands of injuries.

Then, of course, there is the often voiced claim that parents do not
abuse their children in secret and cause medical conditions:

"The underlying assumption is that the parent is the practitioner's ally
in concern for the welfare of the child.25 This belief has been sorely
questioned by the study published recently involving the use of covert
video surveillance.

Two hospitals in the United Kingdom with technology for covert video
surveillance admitted 39 children with a history of an apparent
life-threatening event. There were concerns on the part of the
practitioners that the illnesses may have been induced. Southall and
colleagues reports that in 33 of the 39 cases initially presenting as an
apparent life-threatening event by parental history, there was shocking
video documentation of child physical abuse.25 This included attempts at
suffocation and poisoning; one child suffered a fracture of the upper
extremity. At baseline, it would be interesting to know how often do
parents lie or fabricate stories to doctors about their children, and
under what circumstances?"

I have viewed videos from those sources, by the way, and they were used
in a documentary some years back on national TV in the US. Obviously
hundreds of thousands of people saw those same images.

That ALL the liars in these newsgroups did NOT is beyond belief.

You people are lying or seriously mentally compromised.

Or, finally, seriously morally compromised if you saw them, remember
them, and continue with your lies for your personal reasons.

More children are abused, by far, than are reported, and if reported,
actually investigated. More are killed, obviously, because it is so very
difficult to track a small child's life. They can be killed and the
event covered up easily by a parent determined to do so.

Continue to be socially irresponsible, if you wish, but don't presume
you aren't obvious in your moral decay.

0:->


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

[[email protected]]

weren't you the one demanding a precise definition of
abuse...................weeeeeeeell, bitch, the university of north
carolina article not only fails to specifically define abuse, it offers
no concrete solutions...................still, the article does confirm
my may 15 words in the "better a child be eaten alive than become a
ward of the state!" thread when i posted, "the real killer is something
called structural violence".............structural violence includes
things such as designated poverty...............back on may 15, you
threw one of your little tantrums because i provided no
reference.............why should i when you provide them for
me..............i told you that you weren't smart enough to play this
game............thank you for proving me right..............

[Greegor]

The Child Protection Services INDUSTRY thrives
on manufactured hysteria and imprecise definitions.

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> The Child Protection Services INDUSTRY thrives
> on manufactured hysteria and imprecise definitions.
>
The child abuse apologists thrive on this lie.



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> The Child Protection Services INDUSTRY thrives
> on manufactured hysteria and imprecise definitions.

Oh, does it?

Remember my predictions about meth you and others here, most especially
Doug, tried to minimize? Remember claims by you and them that meth is
not an epidemic. That OTHER substance abuse is more prevalent? That the
"hysteria" is all about getting larger budgets to support bloated
bureaucracies?

This is just ONE area of the country. Stories similar to this are being
played out in more and more places in the country.

The director of planning for substance abuse control and services in my
state is a personal friend. I asked him just a week ago at a conference
what the story was nationally. His reply amounted to "it's coming to
your town soon" kind of answer.

Now remember, he is NOT the "meth" planner, but the SUBSTANCE ABUSE
planner. So he has no particular investment in one drug or the other.
And I asked him that. He said unequivocally that Meth HAS surpassed all
other substances being abused by people, in all areas.


"Tyner notes, "Theoretically, children under 6 should move out of here
within 24 hours."

But they don't. Foster homes are backed up and children now stay at the
shelter for weeks or sometime months. Staff members say it feels more
like an orphanage than a shelter.

In 14 years, Tyner says he never thought he would see anything like
this. This new generation of helpless victims is an unforeseen problem
in the meth epidemic. The drug increases sexual drive. The result is
more babies, many of whom are neglected and sometimes even sexually
abused. As packed as the shelter is, it's better than home.

Tyner says, "Well at least no one here is trying to have sex with them;
no one is beating them, and they get fed on a regular basis."

Holding a baby from the shelter, Alfonsi points out the little girl is
less than a week old. A nurse says the girl is there because she tested
positive for drugs.

Workers usually have two children on their laps at any given time. It's
a struggle sometimes just to remember names. Cues cards tell their
stories. One reads: "Jacob 17 mo. can't walk."

Tyner says, "We're looking at a lot of formula, a lot of diapers we
hadn't planned on." "

The extent you abuse apologists with go to cover up for yourselves and
the child abusers is gross and sickening.

But keep it up.

You are becoming even MORE obvious as we proceed.

0:->




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> The Child Protection Services INDUSTRY thrives
> on manufactured hysteria and imprecise definitions.

Though Sherman had already posted the URL of the article that I took the
quote from in my previous post, I neglected to include it in my post.

Something YOU NEVER PROVIDE, by the way.

Here it is, again.

Enjoy your stupidity and your evil sick child and family hating life,
sicko..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/18/earlyshow/living/main709677.shtml




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

[0:->]

wrote:
> weren't you the one demanding a precise definition of
> abuse...................weeeeeeeell, bitch, the university of north
> carolina article not only fails to specifically define abuse,

Oh, then you have one you've used as a model in determining theirs fails
in specificity? Please post it. It would be a contribution to humankind
you so obviously love and support.

> it offers
> no concrete solutions...................

Okay, how about yours then?

> still, the article does confirm
> my may 15 words in the "better a child be eaten alive than become a
> ward of the state!" thread when i posted, "the real killer is something
> called structural violence".............

Your babbling does not constitute anything, lil 'o' but babbling.

> structural violence includes
> things such as designated poverty...............

One is not impoverished unless it "designated poverty?"

The assumption that children are taken because the family is poor
ignores the problem and comes from the wrong end. All poor families, by
you claim then, would be targets of CPS.

Such is not the case.

What are the targets of CPS investigation does happen to occur more
often in low income families though.

> back on may 15, you
> threw one of your little tantrums because i provided no
> reference.............

Nope. Just pointed out you don't provide them. Like now.

> why should i when you provide them for
> me..............

Nope. You have not successfully used my source to prove your point.

> i told you that you weren't smart enough to play this
> game............

You did? Why, I've forgotten that. I wonder why?

> thank you for proving me right..............

You are entirely welcome, and I'm sure the observers of your claims are
enjoying the humor of the situation.

0:-> I know I certainly am.


>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

[[email protected]]

ooooooooooooh, no.......................gregory doesn't have to prove
anything about cps................all he has to do is point out that
cps has a less than savory reputation and does not enjoy widespread
public support.....................there will be enough former cps
associates around with consciences to do the
rest......................just ask the irs how much damage former
employees can do to a pathological
bureaucracy..........................

]:^< runs around her dog lot barking you can't prove a
thing................you can't prove a thing................you can't
prove a thing................you can't prove a thing................you
can't prove a thing................you can't prove a
thing................you can't prove a thing.................

[0:->]

wrote:
> ooooooooooooh, no.......................gregory doesn't have to prove
> anything about cps................all he has to do is point out that
> cps has a less than savory reputation and does not enjoy widespread
> public support.....................there will be enough former cps
> associates around with consciences to do the
> rest......................

Seems like CPS in its present incarnation has been around since the 60's.

I can assume that there are more than enough ex employees to create
quite a large pool of whistle blowers.

Where are they please?

0:->





just ask the irs how much damage former
> employees can do to a pathological
> bureaucracy..........................
>
> ]:^< runs around her dog lot barking you can't prove a
> thing................you can't prove a thing................you can't
> prove a thing................you can't prove a thing................you
> can't prove a thing................you can't prove a
> thing................you can't prove a thing.................
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

[0:->]

wrote:
> ooooooooooooh, no.......................gregory doesn't have to prove
> anything about cps................all he has to do is point out that
> cps has a less than savory reputation and does not enjoy widespread
> public support.....................there will be enough former cps
> associates around with consciences to do the
> rest......................just ask the irs how much damage former
> employees can do to a pathological
> bureaucracy..........................

Funny you should mention them. When did they go out of business? I've
forgotten.

0:->

>
> ]:^< runs around her dog lot barking you can't prove a
> thing................you can't prove a thing................you can't
> prove a thing................you can't prove a thing................you
> can't prove a thing................you can't prove a
> thing................you can't prove a thing.................
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

[0:->]

wrote:
> ooooooooooooh, no.......................gregory doesn't have to prove
> anything about cps................

Of course not. He's a liar and that's known.

> all he has to do is point out that
> cps has a less than savory reputation and does not enjoy widespread
> public support.....................

Nor do garbage men. So what?

CPS has no mandate to field a rooting section. And the public does NOT
want to REALLY know what they do and who they work with and what they
see. Media that prints too much truth about child abuse get little calls
from advertisers about depressing the readership numbers.

And of course, their customers are themselves, a lot of them, child
abusers. Business men know that.

> there will be enough former cps
> associates around with consciences to do the
> rest......................

What, to break confidentiality and REALLY say what parents do to their
children? That they **** their own children, beat them, sell them to
others for drug money, lock them in closets, and sometimes torture them
to death?

No, you won't find many workers talking about that. Some of what they
have seen and dealt with, if told, would make people call them liars,
when they aren't.

The public doesn't know the half of it...as they say, nor the tenth of
the truth.

> just ask the irs how much damage former
> employees can do to a pathological
> bureaucracy..........................

Oh, I see. That makes the need for operational funding of our government
go away, just like CPS should go away so there won't be any child abuse.

Your logic hasn't improved in all the years you've posted her, has it
observer?

0:->

>
> ]:^< runs around her dog lot barking you can't prove a
> thing................you can't prove a thing................you can't
> prove a thing................you can't prove a thing................you
> can't prove a thing................you can't prove a
> thing................you can't prove a thing.................
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

[Greegor]

The racketeering at CPS agencies is underinvestigated and under
prosecuted.

Got any information on how to apply civil RICO to them?

[[email protected]]

ooooooooooooh, my..................cps has been around for 40
years..............in case you haven't noticed, the world has
changed.................there isn't the money their once was for
funding fat make-work socialist bureaucracies.......................but
if you want to talk about longevity, tell us long has parenting been
around.......................

]:^< runs around her dog lot barking cps has been around for 40
years................cps has been around for 40
years................cps has been around for 40
years................cps has been around for 40
years................cps has been around for 40
years................cps has been around for 40 years.................

[[email protected]]

now, you little brainless slimeball, would you like to prove that i am,
was, or ever will be observer...............you like
proofs......................now's your time to put up or shut
up............ooooooooooooh, by the way, the fact that no one in their
right mind likes you very much is not a proof.................

]:^< runs around her dog lot barking................she's
observer.......................she's
observer.......................she's
observer.......................she's
observer.......................she's
observer.......................she's observer.......................

[[email protected]]

rico is based on conspiracy in selective areas.....................but,
no matter how corrupt, gov'ments exempt themselves from most
prosecutions...............the generic name of this protection is
sovereign immunity.................that is one reason why gov'ment
survive as long as they do................it is also why all gov'ments
fail after people have had enough.....................the easiest way
to defeat cps is through application of the sixth and fourteenth
amendments to the process...............get rid of all the closed
proceedings, inquisitions, and tribunals................make the whole
process public and transparent..................enforce equal
protection and due process.....................an informed public gets
rid of gov'ment corruption faster than anything...................that
is why gov'ments protect their secrets so carefully..................

gregory asks about applying anti-racketeering statutes to
cps.................

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> The racketeering at CPS agencies

I've seen a few cases, well prosecuted.

You know of others?

> is underinvestigated and under
> prosecuted.

Just how much "investigation" do you feel would be justified?

Please show a cost/benefit ratio for the benefit and cost to the public,
the taxpayers. Thanks.

> Got any information on how to apply civil RICO to them?

Sure, give it up unless you have some evidence of racketeering.

Got any that has not been investigated yet? Take action, or you are not
a good citizen.

0:->

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Doan]

As ypu have reported???? What you claimed was:

"1,000 CHILDREN OR MORE DEAD EVERY YEAR AT THE HANDS OF THEY PARENT
PRACTICING CP THAT ESCALATED?"

Now you are trying to deceive us again by changing it to something else?
YOU ARE DESPICABLE, "never-spanked" boy!

Doan


On Fri, 19 May 2006, 0:-> wrote:

> ...the actual rate of child abuse is of far greater magnitude than is
> official reported.
>
> That child abuse of all kinds is under reported and when reported under
> investigated is a fact.
>
> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/104/1/S1/168
>
> " Comparison of Estimates of Child Maltreatment, 1993-1995
>
> Enumerating reported cases of child abuse and neglect is merely one way
> to assess the magnitude of the problem. Compared with other medical
> conditions during childhood, the data indicate that more children are
> affected by maltreatment than all other serious illnesses combined.
> There also are many cases of abused and neglected children that do not
> come to the attention of social service agencies. For example, in
> studies of child abuse homicide, only 13% to 35% of the victims have
> physical evidence or documented history of maltreatment.9,10 Waiting for
> children to be identified by child protective services presumes that
> "all abused children are detected, and second, that abuse is repetitive".10
>
> In 1995, the Gallup Organization conducted a nationwide survey of
> parents, exploring the means and range of "discipline" experienced by
> children throughout the United States.11 Parents' self-reported
> behaviors of apparent physical abuse occurred at a rate sixteen times
> the official rate of abuse (Table 1). Levels of sexual abuse perpetrated
> by an adult or older child known to the parent were greater than 10
> times the official rate.
>
> These statistics should serve notice that reported cases represent the
> lower end of the confidence interval for abuse and neglect. Errors of
> false-negative assessment are far more likely to be occurring than are
> errors of false-positive reports."
>
> (chart for above narrative at:
> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content-nw/full/104/1/S1/168/T1 )
>
> As this information covers only the years of 93-95 it is unlikely the
> numbers have decreased, but more likely, given the population increase,
> these have gone up as well in the ensuing years.
>
> For those of you that think "spanking" is not involved, have a look at
> what Gallup was surveying: [from the above quote]
>
> "... the Gallup Organization conducted a nationwide survey of parents,
> exploring the means and range of "discipline" experienced by children
> throughout the United States.11 Parents' self-reported behaviors of
> apparent physical abuse occurred at a rate sixteen times the official
> rate of abuse (Table 1)."
>
> Sixteen times? Now try to figure out if there were actually a 1,000, to
> 2,000 fatalities AND hundreds of thousands of injuries.
>
> Then, of course, there is the often voiced claim that parents do not
> abuse their children in secret and cause medical conditions:
>
> "The underlying assumption is that the parent is the practitioner's ally
> in concern for the welfare of the child.25 This belief has been sorely
> questioned by the study published recently involving the use of covert
> video surveillance.
>
> Two hospitals in the United Kingdom with technology for covert video
> surveillance admitted 39 children with a history of an apparent
> life-threatening event. There were concerns on the part of the
> practitioners that the illnesses may have been induced. Southall and
> colleagues reports that in 33 of the 39 cases initially presenting as an
> apparent life-threatening event by parental history, there was shocking
> video documentation of child physical abuse.25 This included attempts at
> suffocation and poisoning; one child suffered a fracture of the upper
> extremity. At baseline, it would be interesting to know how often do
> parents lie or fabricate stories to doctors about their children, and
> under what circumstances?"
>
> I have viewed videos from those sources, by the way, and they were used
> in a documentary some years back on national TV in the US. Obviously
> hundreds of thousands of people saw those same images.
>
> That ALL the liars in these newsgroups did NOT is beyond belief.
>
> You people are lying or seriously mentally compromised.
>
> Or, finally, seriously morally compromised if you saw them, remember
> them, and continue with your lies for your personal reasons.
>
> More children are abused, by far, than are reported, and if reported,
> actually investigated. More are killed, obviously, because it is so very
> difficult to track a small child's life. They can be killed and the
> event covered up easily by a parent determined to do so.
>
> Continue to be socially irresponsible, if you wish, but don't presume
> you aren't obvious in your moral decay.
>
> 0:->
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
>

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
> As ypu have reported???? What you claimed was:
>
> "1,000 CHILDREN OR MORE DEAD EVERY YEAR AT THE HANDS OF THEY PARENT
> PRACTICING CP THAT ESCALATED?"
>
> Now you are trying to deceive us again by changing it to something else?

Posting additional information on a subject is "deceiving?"

Is that why you offer so LITTLE supporting evidence for your wild
claims? Afraid you might deceive someone? Hell, you are all about
deception, Doan.

> YOU ARE DESPICABLE, "never-spanked" boy!

Coming from you a rare compliment. Imagine, I give you more information
corroborating the subjects I bring up and you claim it's to 'deceive.'

Would you say the same is true of professors, researchers, doctors, even
you plumber, expanding your knowledge with more information?
>
> Doan

Now you are down to simple desperation, but then you were with the Alina
incident, weren't you, Droany?

A life of lies and deceptions. Most likely as reaction to finding as a
little child your parents really did NOT love you, or they wouldn't have
assaulted you then insulted your intelligence by telling you it was
because they loved you.

0:->


>
>
> On Fri, 19 May 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> ...the actual rate of child abuse is of far greater magnitude than is
>> official reported.
>>
>> That child abuse of all kinds is under reported and when reported under
>> investigated is a fact.
>>
>> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/104/1/S1/168
>>
>> " Comparison of Estimates of Child Maltreatment, 1993-1995
>>
>> Enumerating reported cases of child abuse and neglect is merely one way
>> to assess the magnitude of the problem. Compared with other medical
>> conditions during childhood, the data indicate that more children are
>> affected by maltreatment than all other serious illnesses combined.
>> There also are many cases of abused and neglected children that do not
>> come to the attention of social service agencies. For example, in
>> studies of child abuse homicide, only 13% to 35% of the victims have
>> physical evidence or documented history of maltreatment.9,10 Waiting for
>> children to be identified by child protective services presumes that
>> "all abused children are detected, and second, that abuse is repetitive".10
>>
>> In 1995, the Gallup Organization conducted a nationwide survey of
>> parents, exploring the means and range of "discipline" experienced by
>> children throughout the United States.11 Parents' self-reported
>> behaviors of apparent physical abuse occurred at a rate sixteen times
>> the official rate of abuse (Table 1). Levels of sexual abuse perpetrated
>> by an adult or older child known to the parent were greater than 10
>> times the official rate.
>>
>> These statistics should serve notice that reported cases represent the
>> lower end of the confidence interval for abuse and neglect. Errors of
>> false-negative assessment are far more likely to be occurring than are
>> errors of false-positive reports."
>>
>> (chart for above narrative at:
>> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content-nw/full/104/1/S1/168/T1 )
>>
>> As this information covers only the years of 93-95 it is unlikely the
>> numbers have decreased, but more likely, given the population increase,
>> these have gone up as well in the ensuing years.
>>
>> For those of you that think "spanking" is not involved, have a look at
>> what Gallup was surveying: [from the above quote]
>>
>> "... the Gallup Organization conducted a nationwide survey of parents,
>> exploring the means and range of "discipline" experienced by children
>> throughout the United States.11 Parents' self-reported behaviors of
>> apparent physical abuse occurred at a rate sixteen times the official
>> rate of abuse (Table 1)."
>>
>> Sixteen times? Now try to figure out if there were actually a 1,000, to
>> 2,000 fatalities AND hundreds of thousands of injuries.
>>
>> Then, of course, there is the often voiced claim that parents do not
>> abuse their children in secret and cause medical conditions:
>>
>> "The underlying assumption is that the parent is the practitioner's ally
>> in concern for the welfare of the child.25 This belief has been sorely
>> questioned by the study published recently involving the use of covert
>> video surveillance.
>>
>> Two hospitals in the United Kingdom with technology for covert video
>> surveillance admitted 39 children with a history of an apparent
>> life-threatening event. There were concerns on the part of the
>> practitioners that the illnesses may have been induced. Southall and
>> colleagues reports that in 33 of the 39 cases initially presenting as an
>> apparent life-threatening event by parental history, there was shocking
>> video documentation of child physical abuse.25 This included attempts at
>> suffocation and poisoning; one child suffered a fracture of the upper
>> extremity. At baseline, it would be interesting to know how often do
>> parents lie or fabricate stories to doctors about their children, and
>> under what circumstances?"
>>
>> I have viewed videos from those sources, by the way, and they were used
>> in a documentary some years back on national TV in the US. Obviously
>> hundreds of thousands of people saw those same images.
>>
>> That ALL the liars in these newsgroups did NOT is beyond belief.
>>
>> You people are lying or seriously mentally compromised.
>>
>> Or, finally, seriously morally compromised if you saw them, remember
>> them, and continue with your lies for your personal reasons.
>>
>> More children are abused, by far, than are reported, and if reported,
>> actually investigated. More are killed, obviously, because it is so very
>> difficult to track a small child's life. They can be killed and the
>> event covered up easily by a parent determined to do so.
>>
>> Continue to be socially irresponsible, if you wish, but don't presume
>> you aren't obvious in your moral decay.
>>
>> 0:->
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
>>
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Doan]

On Mon, 22 May 2006, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> > As ypu have reported???? What you claimed was:
> >
> > "1,000 CHILDREN OR MORE DEAD EVERY YEAR AT THE HANDS OF THEY PARENT
> > PRACTICING CP THAT ESCALATED?"
> >
> > Now you are trying to deceive us again by changing it to something else?
>
> Posting additional information on a subject is "deceiving?"
>
Misrepresentation is "deceiving"! In other words, you are a LIAR!

> Is that why you offer so LITTLE supporting evidence for your wild
> claims? Afraid you might deceive someone? Hell, you are all about
> deception, Doan.
>
Hihihi! That's you, STUPID!

> > YOU ARE DESPICABLE, "never-spanked" boy!
>
> Coming from you a rare compliment. Imagine, I give you more information
> corroborating the subjects I bring up and you claim it's to 'deceive.'
>
I wasn't meant to be a compliment, STUPID! ;-)

> Would you say the same is true of professors, researchers, doctors, even
> you plumber, expanding your knowledge with more information?

Hihihi! You are them. You are ignoranus kanus!

> >
> > Doan
>
> Now you are down to simple desperation, but then you were with the Alina
> incident, weren't you, Droany?
>
Hihihi! You meant yours Alina incident, where you accused her, just like
you accused beccafromlalaland?

> A life of lies and deceptions. Most likely as reaction to finding as a
> little child your parents really did NOT love you, or they wouldn't have
> assaulted you then insulted your intelligence by telling you it was
> because they loved you.
>
Hihihi! Just like your mom teaching you to say "smelly-****" because she
loved you?

;-)

> 0:->
>
>
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 19 May 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> ...the actual rate of child abuse is of far greater magnitude than is
> >> official reported.
> >>
> >> That child abuse of all kinds is under reported and when reported under
> >> investigated is a fact.
> >>
> >> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/104/1/S1/168
> >>
> >> " Comparison of Estimates of Child Maltreatment, 1993-1995
> >>
> >> Enumerating reported cases of child abuse and neglect is merely one way
> >> to assess the magnitude of the problem. Compared with other medical
> >> conditions during childhood, the data indicate that more children are
> >> affected by maltreatment than all other serious illnesses combined.
> >> There also are many cases of abused and neglected children that do not
> >> come to the attention of social service agencies. For example, in
> >> studies of child abuse homicide, only 13% to 35% of the victims have
> >> physical evidence or documented history of maltreatment.9,10 Waiting for
> >> children to be identified by child protective services presumes that
> >> "all abused children are detected, and second, that abuse is repetitive".10
> >>
> >> In 1995, the Gallup Organization conducted a nationwide survey of
> >> parents, exploring the means and range of "discipline" experienced by
> >> children throughout the United States.11 Parents' self-reported
> >> behaviors of apparent physical abuse occurred at a rate sixteen times
> >> the official rate of abuse (Table 1). Levels of sexual abuse perpetrated
> >> by an adult or older child known to the parent were greater than 10
> >> times the official rate.
> >>
> >> These statistics should serve notice that reported cases represent the
> >> lower end of the confidence interval for abuse and neglect. Errors of
> >> false-negative assessment are far more likely to be occurring than are
> >> errors of false-positive reports."
> >>
> >> (chart for above narrative at:
> >> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content-nw/full/104/1/S1/168/T1 )
> >>
> >> As this information covers only the years of 93-95 it is unlikely the
> >> numbers have decreased, but more likely, given the population increase,
> >> these have gone up as well in the ensuing years.
> >>
> >> For those of you that think "spanking" is not involved, have a look at
> >> what Gallup was surveying: [from the above quote]
> >>
> >> "... the Gallup Organization conducted a nationwide survey of parents,
> >> exploring the means and range of "discipline" experienced by children
> >> throughout the United States.11 Parents' self-reported behaviors of
> >> apparent physical abuse occurred at a rate sixteen times the official
> >> rate of abuse (Table 1)."
> >>
> >> Sixteen times? Now try to figure out if there were actually a 1,000, to
> >> 2,000 fatalities AND hundreds of thousands of injuries.
> >>
> >> Then, of course, there is the often voiced claim that parents do not
> >> abuse their children in secret and cause medical conditions:
> >>
> >> "The underlying assumption is that the parent is the practitioner's ally
> >> in concern for the welfare of the child.25 This belief has been sorely
> >> questioned by the study published recently involving the use of covert
> >> video surveillance.
> >>
> >> Two hospitals in the United Kingdom with technology for covert video
> >> surveillance admitted 39 children with a history of an apparent
> >> life-threatening event. There were concerns on the part of the
> >> practitioners that the illnesses may have been induced. Southall and
> >> colleagues reports that in 33 of the 39 cases initially presenting as an
> >> apparent life-threatening event by parental history, there was shocking
> >> video documentation of child physical abuse.25 This included attempts at
> >> suffocation and poisoning; one child suffered a fracture of the upper
> >> extremity. At baseline, it would be interesting to know how often do
> >> parents lie or fabricate stories to doctors about their children, and
> >> under what circumstances?"
> >>
> >> I have viewed videos from those sources, by the way, and they were used
> >> in a documentary some years back on national TV in the US. Obviously
> >> hundreds of thousands of people saw those same images.
> >>
> >> That ALL the liars in these newsgroups did NOT is beyond belief.
> >>
> >> You people are lying or seriously mentally compromised.
> >>
> >> Or, finally, seriously morally compromised if you saw them, remember
> >> them, and continue with your lies for your personal reasons.
> >>
> >> More children are abused, by far, than are reported, and if reported,
> >> actually investigated. More are killed, obviously, because it is so very
> >> difficult to track a small child's life. They can be killed and the
> >> event covered up easily by a parent determined to do so.
> >>
> >> Continue to be socially irresponsible, if you wish, but don't presume
> >> you aren't obvious in your moral decay.
> >>
> >> 0:->
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
> On Mon, 22 May 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> Doan wrote:
>>> As ypu have reported???? What you claimed was:
>>>
>>> "1,000 CHILDREN OR MORE DEAD EVERY YEAR AT THE HANDS OF THEY PARENT
>>> PRACTICING CP THAT ESCALATED?"
>>>
>>> Now you are trying to deceive us again by changing it to something else?
>> Posting additional information on a subject is "deceiving?"
>>
> Misrepresentation is "deceiving"!

And I misrepresented what?

> In other words, you are a LIAR!

You haven't shown that.

>> Is that why you offer so LITTLE supporting evidence for your wild
>> claims? Afraid you might deceive someone? Hell, you are all about
>> deception, Doan.
>>
> Hihihi! That's you, STUPID!

Nope. It's you.

>>> YOU ARE DESPICABLE, "never-spanked" boy!
>> Coming from you a rare compliment. Imagine, I give you more information
>> corroborating the subjects I bring up and you claim it's to 'deceive.'
>>
> I wasn't meant to be a compliment, STUPID! ;-)

You thought I believed it was, Stupid?

>> Would you say the same is true of professors, researchers, doctors, even
>> you plumber, expanding your knowledge with more information?
>
> Hihihi! You are them. You are ignoranus kanus!

You are desperate. And that's all you are.

>>> Doan
>> Now you are down to simple desperation, but then you were with the Alina
>> incident, weren't you, Droany?
>>
> Hihihi! You meant yours Alina incident, where you accused her, just like
> you accused beccafromlalaland?
>
>> A life of lies and deceptions. Most likely as reaction to finding as a
>> little child your parents really did NOT love you, or they wouldn't have
>> assaulted you then insulted your intelligence by telling you it was
>> because they loved you.
>>
> Hihihi! Just like your mom teaching you to say "smelly-****" because she
> loved you?

I can't recall her ever doing that. On the other hand she had no problem
with exposing ****heels such as you.

You are a supporter of child abuse.

That simple enough for you?

You likely, if any women is stupid enough to mate with you, will abuse
your own children and call it love, and you'll make them as sick as you
are.

0:->




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Greegor]

How is Bend, Don?

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> How is Bend, Don?

You are having your little delusions again. Willing to risk Don and his
family? Or aren't you threatening?

I hope not.

0:->

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Doan]

On Tue, 23 May 2006, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 May 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> Doan wrote:
> >>> As ypu have reported???? What you claimed was:
> >>>
> >>> "1,000 CHILDREN OR MORE DEAD EVERY YEAR AT THE HANDS OF THEY PARENT
> >>> PRACTICING CP THAT ESCALATED?"
> >>>
> >>> Now you are trying to deceive us again by changing it to something else?
> >> Posting additional information on a subject is "deceiving?"
> >>
> > Misrepresentation is "deceiving"!
>
> And I misrepresented what?
>
The Embry Study, for one, and just recently, the claim that 1000 children
died every year from discipline started as spanking.

> > In other words, you are a LIAR!
>
> You haven't shown that.
>
I have PROVEN it beyond any reasonable doubt!

> >> Is that why you offer so LITTLE supporting evidence for your wild
> >> claims? Afraid you might deceive someone? Hell, you are all about
> >> deception, Doan.
> >>
> > Hihihi! That's you, STUPID!
>
> Nope. It's you.
>
Look in the mirror, STUPID! ;-)

> >>> YOU ARE DESPICABLE, "never-spanked" boy!
> >> Coming from you a rare compliment. Imagine, I give you more information
> >> corroborating the subjects I bring up and you claim it's to 'deceive.'
> >>
> > I wasn't meant to be a compliment, STUPID! ;-)
>
> You thought I believed it was, Stupid?
>
That was you said, STUPID!

> >> Would you say the same is true of professors, researchers, doctors, even
> >> you plumber, expanding your knowledge with more information?
> >
> > Hihihi! You are them. You are ignoranus kanus!
>
> You are desperate. And that's all you are.
>
And you are STUPID liar! That's all you are! ;-0

> >>> Doan
> >> Now you are down to simple desperation, but then you were with the Alina
> >> incident, weren't you, Droany?
> >>
> > Hihihi! You meant yours Alina incident, where you accused her, just like
> > you accused beccafromlalaland?
> >
> >> A life of lies and deceptions. Most likely as reaction to finding as a
> >> little child your parents really did NOT love you, or they wouldn't have
> >> assaulted you then insulted your intelligence by telling you it was
> >> because they loved you.
> >>
> > Hihihi! Just like your mom teaching you to say "smelly-****" because she
> > loved you?
>
> I can't recall her ever doing that. On the other hand she had no problem
> with exposing ****heels such as you.
>
She must be turning in her grave!

> You are a supporter of child abuse.
>
Another lie!

> That simple enough for you?
>
> You likely, if any women is stupid enough to mate with you, will abuse
> your own children and call it love, and you'll make them as sick as you
> are.
>
Hihihi! Stupidity is in your genes!

Doan

> 0:->
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>

[Greegor]

Are you divorced or just separated, Don?

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> Are you divorced or just separated, Don?

It will be interesting to see what he answers, if he does.

He probably doesn't have the stomach for the sick ****s like you that
post here.

On the other hand, he's probably far more concerned for his family than
in responding to your nonsense.

0:->

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Greegor]

Yeah, that'll work. Keep up the facade. Shhh!
Denial would never be expected.