Stephanie S
July 8th 03, 09:05 PM
"Stephanie and Tim" > wrote in message
...
>
> "chiam margalit" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Stephanie and Tim" > wrote in
message
> >...
> > > "Cheryl S." > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Stephanie and Tim > wrote in
> message
> > > > .. .
> > > > >
> > > > > "WW" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > I didn't let them do it to my kid... a few centuries ago
> > > > > > out of survival and medical needs, I could understand
> > > > > > that... but TODAY? You have to be an idiot to cut
> > > > > > your baby that way!
> > > > >
> > > > > Was it *really* about survival? How so? I thought it
> > > > > always stemmed from religious... something.
> > > >
> > > > I have read that it first became routine about 150 years ago. I
don't
> > > > believe it was ever about survival or medical needs, or else how
would
> > > > humans have ever evolved to the point we'd even think about doing
it?
> I
> > > > read that the doctors 150 years ago recommended it on grounds that
it
> > > > would reduce or eliminate the boy's desire to masturbate, which I
> guess
> > > > was considered an evil thing to do, so it probably was due to
> religious
> > > > influence. (Note that these would be the same doctors that treated
> > > > people with leeches, and we don't do that anymore...)
> > > >
> > > > It is required for Jews, and I believe, Muslims, so of course that
is
> a
> > > > religious reason. I think it's inappropriate to say "you have to be
> an
> > > > idiot to cut your baby that way", since that's basically calling all
> > > > members of these religions "idiots". I consider a religious
> requirement
> > > > reason enough, I just don't believe there is any other reason where
> the
> > > > benefit warrants this being done routinely.
> > > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > Is it OK to think it? OK, OK actually I am just kidding, beleive it or
> not.
> > > I never called anyone an idiot. But I could not help myself with this
> one.
> >
> > Well, thank you so much. From all the Jews and Muslims in the world,
> > who practice brit milah as we are required to from our biblical (Torah
> > and Koran) laws, we want to thank you, Cheryl for passing judgement on
> > a totally uninformed basis and acting like a complete idiot yourself.
> > Oh, shall I mention bigot as well? No WONDER the Muslims hate
> > Americans. You're a prime example of the small thinking, ethnocentric
> > asses that dominate the American landscape. Shame on you.
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> I was actually just making a joke about the wording of the poster to whom
I
> replied. I do not think that people who circ their kids are idiots. My
> sister had her son circed for a lot less reason that religious observance.
> Several other of my nephews are circed, though I cannot remember which
ones
> now. For the record, my son is not circed.
>
> That said, as a Catholic and understanding some small amount of Catholic
> history, I am cogniscent that all sorts of horrid things can be done in
the
> name of religious law and observance. If relegion cannot be dynamic enough
> to adapt to growing understanding, then it runs the risk of being immoral
> and cruel. That something is based in religious tradition does not make it
> right. And, in my opinion, ALL religions have there practices which are
> somewhere between impractical and terribly terribly immoral. People who
> blindly follow a religious doctrine without applying their brain to it,
are
> at fault for failure to try to work *within* their religion to advance
> understanding, either their own or of the religious "establishment."
>
> You are very reactionary and get in a twist very easily. It is absolutely
> true that Jews have been mistreated, misunderstood and discriminated
against
> for thousands of years. And I wonder if that hasn't made you seek it where
> it is not intended. If your desire is to educate us when we say things
that
> are wrong, allow me to suggest that you will catch more flies with honey
> than with vinegar. For myself, I maintain
>
> 1. I think circing is wrong. I love my sisters and brothers dearly who did
> it. If asked, I would explain to them why I think it is wrong.
>
> 2. I do not consider myself anti-semitic for thinking circing is wrong. If
I
> hated Jews out of fear and lack of understanding, I would be anti-semitic.
I
> find fault with the doctrine of my own religion. Well, I find fault with
the
> doctrine of Judiasm too in this case.
>
> 3. In the big scheme of things, circing is a lesser wrong to so many that
I
> tend not to get upset or super vocal about it. It tends to do no good.
Good
> people circ their kids. Then every one forgets it. And life goes on with
> good people being good people and raising nice kids.
>
> Incidentally, I have had sex with a turtleneck. They are neither dirty nor
> smelly. Well I have never had sex with someone whose hygene was poor. But
> there it is.
>
>
> MY 2 cents.
>
> S
>
>
>
>
>
Sorry for all this. My isp is giving me headaches.
S
...
>
> "chiam margalit" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Stephanie and Tim" > wrote in
message
> >...
> > > "Cheryl S." > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Stephanie and Tim > wrote in
> message
> > > > .. .
> > > > >
> > > > > "WW" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > I didn't let them do it to my kid... a few centuries ago
> > > > > > out of survival and medical needs, I could understand
> > > > > > that... but TODAY? You have to be an idiot to cut
> > > > > > your baby that way!
> > > > >
> > > > > Was it *really* about survival? How so? I thought it
> > > > > always stemmed from religious... something.
> > > >
> > > > I have read that it first became routine about 150 years ago. I
don't
> > > > believe it was ever about survival or medical needs, or else how
would
> > > > humans have ever evolved to the point we'd even think about doing
it?
> I
> > > > read that the doctors 150 years ago recommended it on grounds that
it
> > > > would reduce or eliminate the boy's desire to masturbate, which I
> guess
> > > > was considered an evil thing to do, so it probably was due to
> religious
> > > > influence. (Note that these would be the same doctors that treated
> > > > people with leeches, and we don't do that anymore...)
> > > >
> > > > It is required for Jews, and I believe, Muslims, so of course that
is
> a
> > > > religious reason. I think it's inappropriate to say "you have to be
> an
> > > > idiot to cut your baby that way", since that's basically calling all
> > > > members of these religions "idiots". I consider a religious
> requirement
> > > > reason enough, I just don't believe there is any other reason where
> the
> > > > benefit warrants this being done routinely.
> > > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > Is it OK to think it? OK, OK actually I am just kidding, beleive it or
> not.
> > > I never called anyone an idiot. But I could not help myself with this
> one.
> >
> > Well, thank you so much. From all the Jews and Muslims in the world,
> > who practice brit milah as we are required to from our biblical (Torah
> > and Koran) laws, we want to thank you, Cheryl for passing judgement on
> > a totally uninformed basis and acting like a complete idiot yourself.
> > Oh, shall I mention bigot as well? No WONDER the Muslims hate
> > Americans. You're a prime example of the small thinking, ethnocentric
> > asses that dominate the American landscape. Shame on you.
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> I was actually just making a joke about the wording of the poster to whom
I
> replied. I do not think that people who circ their kids are idiots. My
> sister had her son circed for a lot less reason that religious observance.
> Several other of my nephews are circed, though I cannot remember which
ones
> now. For the record, my son is not circed.
>
> That said, as a Catholic and understanding some small amount of Catholic
> history, I am cogniscent that all sorts of horrid things can be done in
the
> name of religious law and observance. If relegion cannot be dynamic enough
> to adapt to growing understanding, then it runs the risk of being immoral
> and cruel. That something is based in religious tradition does not make it
> right. And, in my opinion, ALL religions have there practices which are
> somewhere between impractical and terribly terribly immoral. People who
> blindly follow a religious doctrine without applying their brain to it,
are
> at fault for failure to try to work *within* their religion to advance
> understanding, either their own or of the religious "establishment."
>
> You are very reactionary and get in a twist very easily. It is absolutely
> true that Jews have been mistreated, misunderstood and discriminated
against
> for thousands of years. And I wonder if that hasn't made you seek it where
> it is not intended. If your desire is to educate us when we say things
that
> are wrong, allow me to suggest that you will catch more flies with honey
> than with vinegar. For myself, I maintain
>
> 1. I think circing is wrong. I love my sisters and brothers dearly who did
> it. If asked, I would explain to them why I think it is wrong.
>
> 2. I do not consider myself anti-semitic for thinking circing is wrong. If
I
> hated Jews out of fear and lack of understanding, I would be anti-semitic.
I
> find fault with the doctrine of my own religion. Well, I find fault with
the
> doctrine of Judiasm too in this case.
>
> 3. In the big scheme of things, circing is a lesser wrong to so many that
I
> tend not to get upset or super vocal about it. It tends to do no good.
Good
> people circ their kids. Then every one forgets it. And life goes on with
> good people being good people and raising nice kids.
>
> Incidentally, I have had sex with a turtleneck. They are neither dirty nor
> smelly. Well I have never had sex with someone whose hygene was poor. But
> there it is.
>
>
> MY 2 cents.
>
> S
>
>
>
>
>
Sorry for all this. My isp is giving me headaches.
S