Re: Fosties Murder Another Baby

[Greegor]

LaVonne: Was Tyler DeLeon better off dead than with his parents?
What is going on when these foster contractor ""superior parents""
withhold water and food from a child in their care?

Death by dehydration is particularly cruel isn't it?

Are the bureaucracies again trying to provide
ROLE MODELS for parents? (sic)

What was Tyler DeLeon removed from his home for?
PLEASE try to say that it doesn't matter!


Allison Wunderlund wrote:
> Murder charge sought against foster mother in Stevens County
>
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003140552_webfoster20.html
>
> The Associated Press
>
> COLVILLE, Stevens County - More than a year and a half after the dehydration
> death of a 7-year-old foster child, a judge is being asked to allow a
> second-degree murder charge against the foster mother.
>
> Carole Ann DeLeon, 51, a former paralegal with the U.S. attorney's office in
> Spokane, was charged in April with criminal mistreatment of an 8-year-old
> foster child identified only as S.M.M.
>
> Now, Stevens County Prosecutor John G. "Jerry" Wetle is seeking permission
> to add the murder charge involving Tyler DeLeon, 7, who weighed 28 pounds at
> his autopsy after he died of dehydration at DeLeon's home on Jan. 13, 2005 -
> his seventh birthday. A hearing is scheduled July 25 before Superior Court
> Judge Allen C. Nielson.
>
> According to court filings by Wetle, DeLeon withheld food and water from
> both boys at her rural home in the southern part of the county, kept the
> younger one from drinking fluids and told people he had a medical condition
> that caused him to drink until he became sick.
>
> In the case of the boy who died, "deliberate cruelty was manifested," Wetle
> wrote.
>
> The older boy has recovered and is developing normally in a second home,
> according to court records.
>
> Defense lawyer Carl J. Oreskovich said prosecutors lacked proof for their
> accusations.
>
> "Obviously, we disagree with the nature of the allegations, but they are
> only allegations at this point," Oreskovich said. "It is our position that
> these charges should never have been filed."
>
> State law allows prosecutors to file amended charges without receiving
> permission from a judge, but Wetle said he wanted to have the two cases
> tried together, so he filed the case in a way that allows the judge to rule
> on whether to allow the murder charge.
>
> Wetle has not filed charges against DeLeon's adult daughter, Christina
> Burns-DeLeon, 29, who was mentioned prominently in a sheriff's office report
> on the death of the younger boy last spring.
>
> The boy's biological relatives said the prosecutor's move was a relief.
>
> "I'm still in shock," said Pamela Reed, the boy's grandmother. "Being this
> long and actually hearing the word 'murder,' I don't know what to think. I'm
> happy."
>
> Kenda Bradford, the biological mother, said the wait might prove worthwhile
> if it means a stronger case in court.
>
> "Murder cases have to be handled with precision," Bradford said. "It's
> better to make sure you have enough to charge."
>
> Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> LaVonne: Was Tyler DeLeon better off dead than with his parents?

One, we don't know he wouldn't be dead in his parents care. The details
aren't available yet.

> What is going on when these foster contractor ""superior parents""
> withhold water and food from a child in their care?

What is going on is that there are bad people in the world. A few are
foster parents. Bad people tend to hide their badness, that's the ONLY
reason I admire YOU. You don't.
>
> Death by dehydration is particularly cruel isn't it?

Yes. What's your point?

> Are the bureaucracies again trying to provide
> ROLE MODELS for parents? (sic)

Yes, they go out and recruit people to become foster parents that are
specially trained to kill foster children. Isn't that right?

> What was Tyler DeLeon removed from his home for?

We don't know as yet.

> PLEASE try to say that it doesn't matter!

I'll do that for you. A child is dead. YOU looking for ways to dance in
his blood makes WHY he was removed less than primary in this story.

There is no, 'removed for insufficient cause kills child' story here.

He could have been, as children have been, with a babysitter. Even a
relative. YOU don't speak up when THOSE happen, do you, Greg?

And you immediately try to blame CPS even if the killer is their own bio
parent or a relative.

You haven't figured out your problem yet, have you, boy?

>
>
> Allison Wunderlund wrote:
>> Murder charge sought against foster mother in Stevens County
>>
>> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003140552_webfoster20.html
>>
>> The Associated Press
>>
>> COLVILLE, Stevens County - More than a year and a half after the dehydration
>> death of a 7-year-old foster child, a judge is being asked to allow a
>> second-degree murder charge against the foster mother.
>>
>> Carole Ann DeLeon, 51, a former paralegal with the U.S. attorney's office in
>> Spokane, was charged in April with criminal mistreatment of an 8-year-old
>> foster child identified only as S.M.M.
>>
>> Now, Stevens County Prosecutor John G. "Jerry" Wetle is seeking permission
>> to add the murder charge involving Tyler DeLeon, 7, who weighed 28 pounds at
>> his autopsy after he died of dehydration at DeLeon's home on Jan. 13, 2005 -
>> his seventh birthday. A hearing is scheduled July 25 before Superior Court
>> Judge Allen C. Nielson.
>>
>> According to court filings by Wetle, DeLeon withheld food and water from
>> both boys at her rural home in the southern part of the county, kept the
>> younger one from drinking fluids and told people he had a medical condition
>> that caused him to drink until he became sick.
>>
>> In the case of the boy who died, "deliberate cruelty was manifested," Wetle
>> wrote.
>>
>> The older boy has recovered and is developing normally in a second home,
>> according to court records.
>>
>> Defense lawyer Carl J. Oreskovich said prosecutors lacked proof for their
>> accusations.
>>
>> "Obviously, we disagree with the nature of the allegations, but they are
>> only allegations at this point," Oreskovich said. "It is our position that
>> these charges should never have been filed."
>>
>> State law allows prosecutors to file amended charges without receiving
>> permission from a judge, but Wetle said he wanted to have the two cases
>> tried together, so he filed the case in a way that allows the judge to rule
>> on whether to allow the murder charge.
>>
>> Wetle has not filed charges against DeLeon's adult daughter, Christina
>> Burns-DeLeon, 29, who was mentioned prominently in a sheriff's office report
>> on the death of the younger boy last spring.
>>
>> The boy's biological relatives said the prosecutor's move was a relief.
>>
>> "I'm still in shock," said Pamela Reed, the boy's grandmother. "Being this
>> long and actually hearing the word 'murder,' I don't know what to think. I'm
>> happy."
>>
>> Kenda Bradford, the biological mother, said the wait might prove worthwhile
>> if it means a stronger case in court.
>>
>> "Murder cases have to be handled with precision," Bradford said. "It's
>> better to make sure you have enough to charge."
>>
>> Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Carlson LaVonne]

Greegor wrote:
> LaVonne: Was Tyler DeLeon better off dead than with his parents?
> What is going on when these foster contractor ""superior parents""
> withhold water and food from a child in their care?

We don't know why he was removed from his parents, nor has the case
against the foster mother been settled at this point. We do not know
that the child would not have died if left in the care of his biological
mother.

If the foster parent is found guilty of murder, this doesn't
automatically mean the child should not have been removed from his
biological mother. It simply means that there needs to be better
screening and training for foster parents.
>
> Death by dehydration is particularly cruel isn't it?

Of course. So is death by scalding, as Jordan received at the hands of
her biological father, with whom she was placed after removal from her
mother's care.
>
> Are the bureaucracies again trying to provide
> ROLE MODELS for parents? (sic)

What a ridiculous statement.
>
> What was Tyler DeLeon removed from his home for?
> PLEASE try to say that it doesn't matter!

Of course it matters, but I don't know why Tyler was removed and I doubt
you do either. So therefore, this is a moot point.

A child is dead, and you exploit his death to further your rant against
foster care. Not all foster parents are good parents, but that does not
automatically mean that children should not be placed in foster care.
Jordan's father scalded her to death! What this means is that we need
even more stringent screening and training of foster parents, and the
money to provide the best foster placements possible for children.

Want to dig out the checkbook, Greegor?

LaVonne
>
>
> Allison Wunderlund wrote:
>
>>Murder charge sought against foster mother in Stevens County
>>
>>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003140552_webfoster20.html
>>
>>The Associated Press
>>
>>COLVILLE, Stevens County - More than a year and a half after the dehydration
>>death of a 7-year-old foster child, a judge is being asked to allow a
>>second-degree murder charge against the foster mother.
>>
>>Carole Ann DeLeon, 51, a former paralegal with the U.S. attorney's office in
>>Spokane, was charged in April with criminal mistreatment of an 8-year-old
>>foster child identified only as S.M.M.
>>
>>Now, Stevens County Prosecutor John G. "Jerry" Wetle is seeking permission
>>to add the murder charge involving Tyler DeLeon, 7, who weighed 28 pounds at
>>his autopsy after he died of dehydration at DeLeon's home on Jan. 13, 2005 -
>>his seventh birthday. A hearing is scheduled July 25 before Superior Court
>>Judge Allen C. Nielson.
>>
>>According to court filings by Wetle, DeLeon withheld food and water from
>>both boys at her rural home in the southern part of the county, kept the
>>younger one from drinking fluids and told people he had a medical condition
>>that caused him to drink until he became sick.
>>
>>In the case of the boy who died, "deliberate cruelty was manifested," Wetle
>>wrote.
>>
>>The older boy has recovered and is developing normally in a second home,
>>according to court records.
>>
>>Defense lawyer Carl J. Oreskovich said prosecutors lacked proof for their
>>accusations.
>>
>>"Obviously, we disagree with the nature of the allegations, but they are
>>only allegations at this point," Oreskovich said. "It is our position that
>>these charges should never have been filed."
>>
>>State law allows prosecutors to file amended charges without receiving
>>permission from a judge, but Wetle said he wanted to have the two cases
>>tried together, so he filed the case in a way that allows the judge to rule
>>on whether to allow the murder charge.
>>
>>Wetle has not filed charges against DeLeon's adult daughter, Christina
>>Burns-DeLeon, 29, who was mentioned prominently in a sheriff's office report
>>on the death of the younger boy last spring.
>>
>>The boy's biological relatives said the prosecutor's move was a relief.
>>
>>"I'm still in shock," said Pamela Reed, the boy's grandmother. "Being this
>>long and actually hearing the word 'murder,' I don't know what to think. I'm
>>happy."
>>
>>Kenda Bradford, the biological mother, said the wait might prove worthwhile
>>if it means a stronger case in court.
>>
>>"Murder cases have to be handled with precision," Bradford said. "It's
>>better to make sure you have enough to charge."
>>
>>Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company
>
>
>

[Greegor]

LaVonne wrote
> scalding, as Jordan received at the hands of
> her biological father, with whom she was
> placed after removal from her mother's care.

Who did this "removal" and why?
Does the agency bear any responsibility for this placement?

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> LaVonne wrote
>> scalding, as Jordan received at the hands of
>> her biological father, with whom she was
>> placed after removal from her mother's care.
>
> Who did this "removal" and why?
> Does the agency bear any responsibility for this placement?

LaVonne already POSTED everything we know to this point. Don't you ever
look anything up yourself?

What a self important little ****ant you are to go ordering people to do
YOUR work to support YOUR argument.

"The following was printed in the StarTribune, Tuesday, July 18:

"Jordan Amber Gonsiorski, 10, had burns on 70 percent of her body, and
acute bruising when she was found at her father's Blaine home....On
Monday, Jordan's father, Jason G. Gonsioroski, 26, and his live-in
girlfriend, Julie Ann Meier, 24, were charged with abetting
second-degree murder while committing child neglect and
endangerment...He (Jordan's father) said Jordan lied and was a
challenging child whom Meier disciplined by spanking, putting soap in
her mouth and making her do jumping jacks."

In March 2005, this little girl's mother relinquished parental rights
after a CPS investigation, admitting that due to her own severe
depression, chemical abuse, and bipolar disorder, she could no longer
care for Jordan. Her mother's boyfriend was also charged at the time
with one count of first-degree criminal sexual conduct against Jordan.

Rather than being placed in foster care, her father, who expressed an
interest, was awarded custody. Having experienced a tragic childhood,
Jordan is now dead at the hands of her father and his girlfriend, who
felt the need to scald her to death when those spankings and
soap-in-the-mouth discipline strategies didn't "work!"

Obviously she was removed because of a mother that could not parent and
knew it, and because that mother's boyfriend was using the child for a
sex toy.

It WAS FIRST DEGREE CRIMINAL SEXUAL CONDUCT.

That's not just running around the house naked, stupid.

And it would be the courts that placed the child, stupid.

So this IS a case where the child would have been far more likely alive
had she been placed with strangers than her dad.

Whose fault?

Well, Greg, just like I blame child abusing and child killing foster
parents when they do such things, I think blaming the father and the
girlfriend "caretaker" would seem appropriate in this case. Wouldn't you?

Doesn't a father have RIGHTS to his own child, Greg?

What evidence do YOU have (I have searched and found nothing more on
this case to date....last search was about 24 hours ago...do YOUR OWN
NOW) that anyone BUT the father and girlfriend made any "mistakes?"

Why don't you just go ahead and lie and pin it on CPS, as you so often
frantically struggle to do?

0:->





--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Carlson LaVonne]

Greegor wrote:

> LaVonne wrote
>
>>scalding, as Jordan received at the hands of
>>her biological father, with whom she was
>>placed after removal from her mother's care.
>
>
> Who did this "removal" and why?

If you remember my original post, I stated that her mother suffered from
bi-polar disorder, depression, and chemical dependency. After being
investigated and learning that Jordan would be removed from her care,
she relinquished her parental rights, realizing that she could not care
for her child.

> Does the agency bear any responsibility for this placement?

Of course, and so does society. There is strange believe in this
country that children belong with biological parents or at least
familial foster care rather than stranger care. This belief has
resulted in tremendous pressure on the foster care system in my state to
place children with biological parents or relatives, even when this is
not the best choice. Many things are overlooked if the placement is
familial.

Ring any personal bells, Greegor?

LaVonne
>

[Carlson LaVonne]

I did not include web sites for searching the story, because I wanted to
see if Greegor would take the initiative.

He didn't, but you did. Was it all that difficult? I suspect he was
afraid to read the story.

What I though was a hoot was that he not only looked up the source, but
that he didn't even remember what I had posted.

What do you think, Greegor? Time to read?

LaVonne



0:-> wrote:

> Greegor wrote:
>
>> LaVonne wrote
>>
>>> scalding, as Jordan received at the hands of
>>> her biological father, with whom she was
>>> placed after removal from her mother's care.
>>
>>
>> Who did this "removal" and why?
>> Does the agency bear any responsibility for this placement?
>
>
> LaVonne already POSTED everything we know to this point. Don't you ever
> look anything up yourself?
>
> What a self important little ****ant you are to go ordering people to do
> YOUR work to support YOUR argument.
>
> "The following was printed in the StarTribune, Tuesday, July 18:
>
> "Jordan Amber Gonsiorski, 10, had burns on 70 percent of her body, and
> acute bruising when she was found at her father's Blaine home....On
> Monday, Jordan's father, Jason G. Gonsioroski, 26, and his live-in
> girlfriend, Julie Ann Meier, 24, were charged with abetting
> second-degree murder while committing child neglect and
> endangerment...He (Jordan's father) said Jordan lied and was a
> challenging child whom Meier disciplined by spanking, putting soap in
> her mouth and making her do jumping jacks."
>
> In March 2005, this little girl's mother relinquished parental rights
> after a CPS investigation, admitting that due to her own severe
> depression, chemical abuse, and bipolar disorder, she could no longer
> care for Jordan. Her mother's boyfriend was also charged at the time
> with one count of first-degree criminal sexual conduct against Jordan.
>
> Rather than being placed in foster care, her father, who expressed an
> interest, was awarded custody. Having experienced a tragic childhood,
> Jordan is now dead at the hands of her father and his girlfriend, who
> felt the need to scald her to death when those spankings and
> soap-in-the-mouth discipline strategies didn't "work!"
>
> Obviously she was removed because of a mother that could not parent and
> knew it, and because that mother's boyfriend was using the child for a
> sex toy.
>
> It WAS FIRST DEGREE CRIMINAL SEXUAL CONDUCT.
>
> That's not just running around the house naked, stupid.
>
> And it would be the courts that placed the child, stupid.
>
> So this IS a case where the child would have been far more likely alive
> had she been placed with strangers than her dad.
>
> Whose fault?
>
> Well, Greg, just like I blame child abusing and child killing foster
> parents when they do such things, I think blaming the father and the
> girlfriend "caretaker" would seem appropriate in this case. Wouldn't you?
>
> Doesn't a father have RIGHTS to his own child, Greg?
>
> What evidence do YOU have (I have searched and found nothing more on
> this case to date....last search was about 24 hours ago...do YOUR OWN
> NOW) that anyone BUT the father and girlfriend made any "mistakes?"
>
> Why don't you just go ahead and lie and pin it on CPS, as you so often
> frantically struggle to do?
>
> 0:->
>
>
>
>
>

[0:->]

Carlson LaVonne wrote:
>
>
> Greegor wrote:
>
>> LaVonne wrote
>>
>>> scalding, as Jordan received at the hands of
>>> her biological father, with whom she was
>>> placed after removal from her mother's care.
>>
>>
>> Who did this "removal" and why?
>
> If you remember my original post, I stated that her mother suffered from
> bi-polar disorder, depression, and chemical dependency. After being
> investigated and learning that Jordan would be removed from her care,
> she relinquished her parental rights, realizing that she could not care
> for her child.

Nor protect the child from being raped by the mother's "boyfriend." I
suppose we could call him her fiance?

>> Does the agency bear any responsibility for this placement?
>
> Of course, and so does society. There is strange believe in this
> country that children belong with biological parents or at least
> familial foster care rather than stranger care. This belief has
> resulted in tremendous pressure on the foster care system in my state to
> place children with biological parents or relatives, even when this is
> not the best choice. Many things are overlooked if the placement is
> familial.
>
> Ring any personal bells, Greegor?
>
> LaVonne

He can disassociate at the drop of a "Send" key, LaVonne.

0:->




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> LaVonne: You injected the girls story here in a thread
> about the death of Tyler Deon.
>
> I asked if she was removed for good reason.

How is that relevant to the death in foster care?

> Then you drop the girl's past like a bomb and blame
> me for not researching your ASIDE comment?

So THAT'S why you don't do your own look ups?

Fear of explosive potential of truth.

Yes, I can see you need to be shielded from that. I'll try to remember
not to ask you to do any.

> Did I fail in my "due diligience" when I asked the question?

No, you failed to do your own homework BEFORE ASKING INSINUATING QUESTIONS.

But then, what would you have left to post?

0:->




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Greegor]

Greg wrote
> Did I fail in my "due diligience" when I asked the question?

Kane wrote
> No, you failed to do your own homework BEFORE ASKING INSINUATING QUESTIONS.
> But then, what would you have left to post?

I could always post Dan Sullivan's legal records.

[Greegor]

Greegor wrote:
> Greg wrote
> > Did I fail in my "due diligience" when I asked the question?
>
> Kane wrote
> > No, you failed to do your own homework BEFORE ASKING INSINUATING QUESTIONS.
> > But then, what would you have left to post?
>
> I could always post Dan Sullivan's legal records.

Badoom Boom!

Does LaVonne believe she was abused as a child?

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> Greegor wrote:
>> Greg wrote
>>> Did I fail in my "due diligience" when I asked the question?
>> Kane wrote
>>> No, you failed to do your own homework BEFORE ASKING INSINUATING QUESTIONS.
>>> But then, what would you have left to post?
>> I could always post Dan Sullivan's legal records.
>
> Badoom Boom!
>
> Does LaVonne believe she was abused as a child?

So we now go from Greegor's mindless blather to an increasingly downward
spiral.

Vague threats, stupid aimless questions.

I am beginning to think my question is very much to the point: Is this a
cry for help?




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)