Why do so many parents spank?

[Amanda]

Well, an obvious anser to this question is to discipline their kids, to
make them behave well. But my point is, why do they need to use
corporal punishment? Do they feel it's a kind of moral obligation to
spank their kids? Is it a religious obligation?

Is it possible to spank out of love? I'm sure it's possible to punish
out of love, but is it possible to spank out of love? I'm almost sure
most parents spank out of anger

Is it possible that some parents spank their kids to discharge a
frustration, an anger? For example, the father can't spank or hit his
boss, than he spanks his kids.

When a parent spanks, does he or she just want to show authority or is
the parent really thinking about the kid's best?

Though I have 2 kids, a boy, 14, and a girl, 12, I have no experience
withg spanks. I've never spanked my kids and I' wasn't spanked when I
was a girl I don't know if my parents would have spanked me, they died
when I was 2 years old. But according to my family tradition, at least
my father probably would.

When do spankers parents think they should spanks (or admnister a
spanking, to use the they terms they like)? When kids lie? disobey?

In another post, I talked about what happened some weeks ago when my
daughter eneded up drinking some wine and told me? I didnt spank her.
In such situation, would a spanking parent make her feel harsh lashes,
like a parent said I should do?

These are just some questions.

Thank you.

Amanda

[Doan]

The obvious answer is because non-cp alternatives didn't work. As Straus
put it:

"CP is typically a response to misbehavior, particularly after one or more
other intervention have been tried repeatedly and the misbehavior they are
meant to correct recurs."

Straus, Murray A. & Vera E. Mouradian. 1998 "Impulsive Corporal Punishment by
Mothers and Antisocial Behavior and Impulsiveness of children." Behavioral
Sciences and the Law. 16: 353-374.

Doan


On 24 Jul 2006, Amanda wrote:

> Well, an obvious anser to this question is to discipline their kids, to
> make them behave well. But my point is, why do they need to use
> corporal punishment? Do they feel it's a kind of moral obligation to
> spank their kids? Is it a religious obligation?
>
> Is it possible to spank out of love? I'm sure it's possible to punish
> out of love, but is it possible to spank out of love? I'm almost sure
> most parents spank out of anger
>
> Is it possible that some parents spank their kids to discharge a
> frustration, an anger? For example, the father can't spank or hit his
> boss, than he spanks his kids.
>
> When a parent spanks, does he or she just want to show authority or is
> the parent really thinking about the kid's best?
>
> Though I have 2 kids, a boy, 14, and a girl, 12, I have no experience
> withg spanks. I've never spanked my kids and I' wasn't spanked when I
> was a girl I don't know if my parents would have spanked me, they died
> when I was 2 years old. But according to my family tradition, at least
> my father probably would.
>
> When do spankers parents think they should spanks (or admnister a
> spanking, to use the they terms they like)? When kids lie? disobey?
>
> In another post, I talked about what happened some weeks ago when my
> daughter eneded up drinking some wine and told me? I didnt spank her.
> In such situation, would a spanking parent make her feel harsh lashes,
> like a parent said I should do?
>
> These are just some questions.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Amanda
>
>

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
>
> The obvious answer is because non-cp alternatives didn't work.

That's not what Straus said. Do you wish to claim all possible "other
interventions" were used?

> As Straus
> put it:
>
> "CP is typically a response to misbehavior, particularly after one or more
> other intervention have been tried repeatedly and the misbehavior they are
> meant to correct recurs."

You have taken this out of context. A shoddy trick usual for those with
poor ethics.

He is addressing the limited REPERTOIRES OF spankers, and had not
actually found any "non-spankers" to observe or review. As you well know.
>
> Straus, Murray A. & Vera E. Mouradian. 1998 "Impulsive Corporal Punishment by
> Mothers and Antisocial Behavior and Impulsiveness of children." Behavioral
> Sciences and the Law. 16: 353-374.
>
> Doan

You continue to misuse the research. How 'Spanked' is THAT?

R R R R R R


>
>
> On 24 Jul 2006, Amanda wrote:
>
>> Well, an obvious anser to this question is to discipline their kids, to
>> make them behave well. But my point is, why do they need to use
>> corporal punishment? Do they feel it's a kind of moral obligation to
>> spank their kids? Is it a religious obligation?
>>
>> Is it possible to spank out of love? I'm sure it's possible to punish
>> out of love, but is it possible to spank out of love? I'm almost sure
>> most parents spank out of anger
>>
>> Is it possible that some parents spank their kids to discharge a
>> frustration, an anger? For example, the father can't spank or hit his
>> boss, than he spanks his kids.
>>
>> When a parent spanks, does he or she just want to show authority or is
>> the parent really thinking about the kid's best?
>>
>> Though I have 2 kids, a boy, 14, and a girl, 12, I have no experience
>> withg spanks. I've never spanked my kids and I' wasn't spanked when I
>> was a girl I don't know if my parents would have spanked me, they died
>> when I was 2 years old. But according to my family tradition, at least
>> my father probably would.
>>
>> When do spankers parents think they should spanks (or admnister a
>> spanking, to use the they terms they like)? When kids lie? disobey?
>>
>> In another post, I talked about what happened some weeks ago when my
>> daughter eneded up drinking some wine and told me? I didnt spank her.
>> In such situation, would a spanking parent make her feel harsh lashes,
>> like a parent said I should do?
>>
>> These are just some questions.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Amanda
>>
>>
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Carlson LaVonne]

Amanda,

These are very thought provoking questions.

Amanda wrote:
> Well, an obvious anser to this question is to discipline their kids, to
> make them behave well. But my point is, why do they need to use
> corporal punishment? Do they feel it's a kind of moral obligation to
> spank their kids? Is it a religious obligation?

I know parents that truly believe it is a moral obligation in order to
raise "good" children. I also know that for some parents, Old Testament
Proverbs 13-15 is often used to justify hitting children in the name of
discipline. This is often misquoted as "spare the rod, spoil the child"
which appears nowhere in the the Bible. Honest followers of the Bible
realize that invoking Proverbs as a justification for spanking is
dishonest and selective interpretation. No one today follows all
teachings of the Old Testament.
>
> Is it possible to spank out of love? I'm sure it's possible to punish
> out of love, but is it possible to spank out of love? I'm almost sure
> most parents spank out of anger

I think it is possible to love your child and still spank. I think
there are parents that truly believe spanking is an act of love. And
yes, I think most parents do spank out of anger, even though for some
the anger may not be apparent at the time. And the cold, calm, and
deliberate hitting is far more chilling to me.
>
> Is it possible that some parents spank their kids to discharge a
> frustration, an anger? For example, the father can't spank or hit his
> boss, than he spanks his kids.

Absolutely! We all know what it's like to have a bad day at work and
take it out on our spouse, significant other, or children. While we may
not hit them, we react in ways we normally wouldn't react. And it's
human nature to pick on the safest and most vulnerable person in our
lives. Those of us who are honest with our feelings and motivations try
to curb this reaction, and apologize when we fail.
>
> When a parent spanks, does he or she just want to show authority or is
> the parent really thinking about the kid's best?

I believe that parents who spank believe that show of power and
authority is about the kid's best. Sad, isn't it?
>
> Though I have 2 kids, a boy, 14, and a girl, 12, I have no experience
> withg spanks. I've never spanked my kids and I' wasn't spanked when I
> was a girl I don't know if my parents would have spanked me, they died
> when I was 2 years old. But according to my family tradition, at least
> my father probably would.
>
> When do spankers parents think they should spanks (or admnister a
> spanking, to use the they terms they like)? When kids lie? disobey?

This depends on the spanker, Amanda. I suspect the spanking generally
results from the behavior that most angers the parent.
>
> In another post, I talked about what happened some weeks ago when my
> daughter eneded up drinking some wine and told me? I didnt spank her.
> In such situation, would a spanking parent make her feel harsh lashes,
> like a parent said I should do?

Obviously, your daughter told you about the wine incident because she
trusted you and wanted your guidance. You can rest assured that if she
had thought for even one minute that your response to her honesty would
have been hitting and hurting her, she would have not felt she could
come to you and share what she had done. Spanking teaches children to
be sneaky, to lie, to avoid getting caught. It also damages that
precious trust children need for their parents.

Hope this helps. Let me know what you think.

LaVonne
>
> These are just some questions.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Amanda
>

[0:->]

Carlson LaVonne wrote:
> Amanda,
>
> These are very thought provoking questions.
>
> Amanda wrote:
>> Well, an obvious anser to this question is to discipline their kids, to
>> make them behave well. But my point is, why do they need to use
>> corporal punishment? Do they feel it's a kind of moral obligation to
>> spank their kids? Is it a religious obligation?
>
> I know parents that truly believe it is a moral obligation in order to
> raise "good" children. I also know that for some parents, Old Testament
> Proverbs 13-15 is often used to justify hitting children in the name of
> discipline. This is often misquoted as "spare the rod, spoil the child"
> which appears nowhere in the the Bible. Honest followers of the Bible
> realize that invoking Proverbs as a justification for spanking is
> dishonest and selective interpretation. No one today follows all
> teachings of the Old Testament.
>>
>> Is it possible to spank out of love? I'm sure it's possible to punish
>> out of love, but is it possible to spank out of love? I'm almost sure
>> most parents spank out of anger
>
> I think it is possible to love your child and still spank. I think
> there are parents that truly believe spanking is an act of love. And
> yes, I think most parents do spank out of anger, even though for some
> the anger may not be apparent at the time. And the cold, calm, and
> deliberate hitting is far more chilling to me.
>>
>> Is it possible that some parents spank their kids to discharge a
>> frustration, an anger? For example, the father can't spank or hit his
>> boss, than he spanks his kids.
>
> Absolutely! We all know what it's like to have a bad day at work and
> take it out on our spouse, significant other, or children. While we may
> not hit them, we react in ways we normally wouldn't react. And it's
> human nature to pick on the safest and most vulnerable person in our
> lives. Those of us who are honest with our feelings and motivations try
> to curb this reaction, and apologize when we fail.
>>
>> When a parent spanks, does he or she just want to show authority or is
>> the parent really thinking about the kid's best?
>
> I believe that parents who spank believe that show of power and
> authority is about the kid's best. Sad, isn't it?
>>
>> Though I have 2 kids, a boy, 14, and a girl, 12, I have no experience
>> withg spanks. I've never spanked my kids and I' wasn't spanked when I
>> was a girl I don't know if my parents would have spanked me, they died
>> when I was 2 years old. But according to my family tradition, at least
>> my father probably would.
>>
>> When do spankers parents think they should spanks (or admnister a
>> spanking, to use the they terms they like)? When kids lie? disobey?
>
> This depends on the spanker, Amanda. I suspect the spanking generally
> results from the behavior that most angers the parent.
>>
>> In another post, I talked about what happened some weeks ago when my
>> daughter eneded up drinking some wine and told me? I didnt spank her.
>> In such situation, would a spanking parent make her feel harsh lashes,
>> like a parent said I should do?
>
> Obviously, your daughter told you about the wine incident because she
> trusted you and wanted your guidance. You can rest assured that if she
> had thought for even one minute that your response to her honesty would
> have been hitting and hurting her, she would have not felt she could
> come to you and share what she had done. Spanking teaches children to
> be sneaky, to lie, to avoid getting caught. It also damages that
> precious trust children need for their parents.
>
> Hope this helps. Let me know what you think.
>
> LaVonne
>>
>> These are just some questions.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Amanda

When I was active professionally with treating emotionally disturbed
children it often came up for me, what is the difference between these
children and those raised by loving parents.

(I had never had a child on my caseload that had not been spanked).

So I tended to ask some of the same questions of those children not in
treatment as those I questioned to set a baseline and to establish
treatment goals and actions.

One of the things that struck me was my question that went, "when you
are about to do something you know you shouldn't, does your parent come
to mind?"

Both pretty consistently (the normal kids always) answered yes.

As I questioned further the ill children all said they thought of their
parent for a moment and defiantly went on anyway and did the bad thing.

The other kids admitted that they, when thinking of their parent in
these moments of temptation, felt deep guilt and worry of how their
parent would see them if they knew they had done this bad thing, and
they decided not to in most instances.

This included the traditional, "sex, drugs, and rock and roll."

The latter being a code phrase among teens of that time as "criminal"
activity like shoplifting or vandalizing.

When I asked each if they had been spanked, the former..the ill children
all answered, yes, and the latter, rarely said they were ever spanked.

Nothing quite like trust to set up the need to keep trust.

0:->





--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Greegor]

Kane wrote
"Nothing quite like trust to set up the need to keep trust."

Geoffrey Rantz called it "grooming".

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> Kane wrote
> "Nothing quite like trust to set up the need to keep trust."
>
> Geoffrey Rantz called it "grooming".

Yes, I too call it grooming when it's done to manipulate a child into
being sexually abused.

When it's a parent or other caregiver it's rarely done as grooming. It's
done to create a trust for providing a way for children to learn in a
safe environment.

Children learn better in such circumstances.

Molesters of children aren't ignorant of the skills of trust building.

It's sort of like guns.

If we are to have access to them ourself, as law abiding citizens there
is always the risk of criminals also having them.

Tell us Greg, do you think that parents, on the off chance they might
suddenly convert to sexual abusers of children, should not create a
climate of trust in their family and household between the members?

I assure you, though incest is certainly a problem it does not involve
the vast majority of parents and families.

Is this something you'd like to discuss further, and lack sufficient
information about?

I'd be happy to oblige. I worked with incest victims years ago and
building trust so that healing and therapeutic work could begin tended
to take more time than the actual healing and therapeutic interventions.

Though I tended to think that trust building was in fact therapeutic and
healing in itself.

My first task was to teach the child how to deal with people that were
attempting to build trust and uncover their motives.

That in itself tended to build great trust.

Could I have betrayed it? Of course. Did I? Of course not.

Interestingly, where YOU fail, I could produce, Greg. I asked you to
create a list of this GROUP of sexual perverts you claim are in CPS.

I know about every single case of a CPS worker sexual abuse of a client,
and every single case of a child therapist sexually abusing a client in
three states over a 15 year period.

There were two. One from each profession.

I was very angry as were all others in the field.

Is two, a "group?"

0:->

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Greegor]

Kane wrote
> "Nothing quite like trust to set up the need to keep trust."

Greg wrote
> Geoffrey Rantz called it "grooming".

Kane wrote
> Yes, I too call it grooming when it's done to
> manipulate a child into being sexually abused.
> When it's a parent or other caregiver it's rarely
> done as grooming. It's done to create a trust
> for providing a way for children to learn in a
> safe environment.

What about when it's done by a brain sucking CPS robot
deperate to justify their paycheck by trying desperately
to get the child to tell them stories of child abuse
even when there WAS NONE?

What about when the Child Protection
caseworker IS A CHILD MOLESTOR?

(As Geoffrey Rantz was?)

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> Kane wrote
>> "Nothing quite like trust to set up the need to keep trust."
>
> Greg wrote
>> Geoffrey Rantz called it "grooming".
>
> Kane wrote
>> Yes, I too call it grooming when it's done to
>> manipulate a child into being sexually abused.
>> When it's a parent or other caregiver it's rarely
>> done as grooming. It's done to create a trust
>> for providing a way for children to learn in a
>> safe environment.
>
> What about when it's done by a brain sucking CPS robot
> deperate to justify their paycheck by trying desperately
> to get the child to tell them stories of child abuse
> even when there WAS NONE?

Unethical. Got any?

Link us to the story. I'd like to examine it.

> What about when the Child Protection
> caseworker IS A CHILD MOLESTOR?
>
> (As Geoffrey Rantz was?)

Criminal. Any person in a place of trust such as that, or those in my
past profession, should be, if convicted, imprisoned for a long time.

Guess what? When caught and there is sufficient evidence to charge,
prosecute, and convict, they go where, Greg?

I had one of the victims on my caseload of the director of a highly
trusted director of a children's treatment center. Since THAT was my
area of work you can imagine my feelings about what had been done to the
boy by someone in my field.

It was a long difficult road for him, but he came to trust again, and he
had the unique knowledge, as most victims of sexual abuse do, to take
much better care of himself in the future.

No, he didn't run around paranoid. Despite the lies of you pricks, he
was taught to assertive, personally responsible for himself, and not
afraid. He went on eventually to college and to become an engineer.

Nice man.

Good built in **** detector too. You wouldn't last ten seconds before he
picked up the stench of a liar and fool.

Lesson for this subject done.

0:->



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Greegor]

Kane wrote
> Lesson for this subject done.

Ego trip?