Argument to the Black community on ...

[0:->]

.... spanking, of course.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/

Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
Corporal Punishment’s Hidden Costs
By Salim Muwakkil

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
separate incidents in the city’s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
Chicago’s inner-city neighborhoods.

In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
violence.

Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.

If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.

Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment—the infliction of
physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
controlling behavior—as the culprit in a wide variety of social
dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
punishment of children.

International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
“counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.”

In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
for a society that called itself civilized.

Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
corporal punishment.

His major argument is simple: “the use of corporal punishment teaches
children that violence is the way to solve problems.” Poussaint, who was
an adviser to the popular program “The Cosby Show,” says corporal
punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
black community.

At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.

“There’s an overuse of beating kids,” he said, breaking a major taboo
among black leadership by raising this issue. “So that you have 80
percent of black parents believing you should beat them—beat the devil
out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
get.”

High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice’s Bureau of
Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.

In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
ten times the white rate.

Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
responsibility and cultural standards.

There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint’s
anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is
that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.

One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
spare the rod and for far too many, the case is closed. Also, many
African-American parents argue they must discipline their children
harshly to prepare them better for the racist treatment they’re sure to
receive in the Untied States.

But Poussaint said his research found that 80 to 90 percent of black
prison inmates were severely punished or neglected as children. It
doesn’t work.

There’s also the sheer injustice of imposing an act of physical violence
on someone smaller and weaker: As we’ve learned from U.S. foreign
policy, that never leads to positive outcomes.

Salim Muwakkil is a senior editor of In These Times, where he has worked
since 1983, and an op-ed columnist for the Chicago Tribune. He is
currently a Crime and Communities Media Fellow of the Open Society
Institute, examining the impact of ex-inmates and gang leaders in
leadership positions in the black community.

More information about Salim Muwakkil
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/about/author/13




--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Doan]

Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community.

References:
Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
32, 1065-1072.

Doan


On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:

> ... spanking, of course.
>
> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>
> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> Corporal Punishment’s Hidden Costs
> By Salim Muwakkil
>
> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>
> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> separate incidents in the city’s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> Chicago’s inner-city neighborhoods.
>
> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> violence.
>
> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>
> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>
> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment—the infliction of
> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> controlling behavior—as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> punishment of children.
>
> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> “counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.”
>
> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> for a society that called itself civilized.
>
> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> corporal punishment.
>
> His major argument is simple: “the use of corporal punishment teaches
> children that violence is the way to solve problems.” Poussaint, who was
> an adviser to the popular program “The Cosby Show,” says corporal
> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> black community.
>
> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>
> “There’s an overuse of beating kids,” he said, breaking a major taboo
> among black leadership by raising this issue. “So that you have 80
> percent of black parents believing you should beat them—beat the devil
> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> get.”
>
> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice’s Bureau of
> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>
> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> ten times the white rate.
>
> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> responsibility and cultural standards.
>
> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint’s
> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is
> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>
> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
> spare the rod and for far too many, the case is closed. Also, many
> African-American parents argue they must discipline their children
> harshly to prepare them better for the racist treatment they’re sure to
> receive in the Untied States.
>
> But Poussaint said his research found that 80 to 90 percent of black
> prison inmates were severely punished or neglected as children. It
> doesn’t work.
>
> There’s also the sheer injustice of imposing an act of physical violence
> on someone smaller and weaker: As we’ve learned from U.S. foreign
> policy, that never leads to positive outcomes.
>
> Salim Muwakkil is a senior editor of In These Times, where he has worked
> since 1983, and an op-ed columnist for the Chicago Tribune. He is
> currently a Crime and Communities Media Fellow of the Open Society
> Institute, examining the impact of ex-inmates and gang leaders in
> leadership positions in the black community.
>
> More information about Salim Muwakkil
> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/about/author/13
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> agression in the Black community.

Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.

>
> References:
> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> 32, 1065-1072.

R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
other significant portions of their research report...not even an
abstract. Tsk.

Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?

Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
provided the link:

http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961

"1996

* Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
(1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.

The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "

Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?

You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.

We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
Am families to the count of 466.

They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.

You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.

Try again, stupid monkeyboy.


I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.

And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
again.

The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"

Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.

Neither of the words related to research.

As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.

I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.

I note this is from a 1996 study.

I quote an opinion from 2006.

He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
cited.

Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."

I presume he's tenured and a researcher.

Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
making:

http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php

The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
obviously willing to stand up and be counted.

And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
Christian churches included.

Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.

There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
control a child. None.

And these Black leaders know it too.

Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.

Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.

0:->

"No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
.. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT



>
> Doan
>
>
> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> ... spanking, of course.
>>
>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>
>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>
>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>
>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>
>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>> violence.
>>
>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>
>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>
>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>> punishment of children.
>>
>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
>>
>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>
>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>> corporal punishment.
>>
>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>> black community.
>>
>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>
>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>> get.�
>>
>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>
>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>> ten times the white rate.
>>
>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>
>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>
>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Doan]

Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!

Doan


On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> > Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> > the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> > that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> > lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> > been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> > agression in the Black community.
>
> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>
> >
> > References:
> > Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> > Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> > Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> > 32, 1065-1072.
>
> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
> abstract. Tsk.
>
> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
>
> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
> provided the link:
>
> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
>
> "1996
>
> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>
> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
>
> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
>
> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
>
> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
> Am families to the count of 466.
>
> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
>
> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
>
> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
>
>
> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
>
> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
> again.
>
> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
>
> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
>
> Neither of the words related to research.
>
> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
>
> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
>
> I note this is from a 1996 study.
>
> I quote an opinion from 2006.
>
> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
> cited.
>
> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
>
> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
>
> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
> making:
>
> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
>
> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
>
> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
> Christian churches included.
>
> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
>
> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
> control a child. None.
>
> And these Black leaders know it too.
>
> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
>
> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
>
> 0:->
>
> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
>
>
>
> >
> > Doan
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> ... spanking, of course.
> >>
> >> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> >>
> >> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> >> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
> >> By Salim Muwakkil
> >>
> >> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> >> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> >> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>
> >> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> >> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> >> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> >> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> >> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
> >>
> >> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> >> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> >> violence.
> >>
> >> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> >> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> >>
> >> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> >> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> >> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>
> >> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
> >> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> >> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> >> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> >> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> >> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> >> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> >> punishment of children.
> >>
> >> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> >> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> >> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> >> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> >> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> >> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
> >>
> >> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> >> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> >> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> >> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> >> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> >> for a society that called itself civilized.
> >>
> >> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> >> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> >> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> >> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> >> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> >> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> >> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> >> corporal punishment.
> >>
> >> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
> >> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
> >> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
> >> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> >> black community.
> >>
> >> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> >> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> >> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> >> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> >> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> >>
> >> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
> >> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
> >> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
> >> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> >> get.�
> >>
> >> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> >> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
> >> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> >> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> >>
> >> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> >> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> >> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> >> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> >> ten times the white rate.
> >>
> >> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> >> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> >> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> >> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> >> responsibility and cultural standards.
> >>
> >> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
> >> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
> >> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> >> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> >>
> >> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> >> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
> Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
> and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
>
> Doan

Hey there, Monkeyboy. Fabulous debating skill. Your argument is so
unique to you.

R R R R R

Apparently there is some disagreement what the "research" you claim
says, and what it really says. AND, apparently some disagreement in the
Black community with the results of a 1996 study.

http://nospank.net/poussaint-release.pdf

That's the truth, boy.

0:->





>
>
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> Doan wrote:
>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
>>> agression in the Black community.
>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>>
>>> References:
>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
>>> 32, 1065-1072.
>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
>> abstract. Tsk.
>>
>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
>>
>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
>> provided the link:
>>
>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
>>
>> "1996
>>
>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>>
>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
>>
>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
>>
>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
>>
>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
>> Am families to the count of 466.
>>
>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
>>
>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
>>
>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
>>
>>
>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
>>
>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
>> again.
>>
>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
>>
>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
>>
>> Neither of the words related to research.
>>
>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
>>
>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
>>
>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
>>
>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
>>
>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
>> cited.
>>
>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
>>
>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
>>
>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
>> making:
>>
>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
>>
>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
>>
>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
>> Christian churches included.
>>
>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
>>
>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
>> control a child. None.
>>
>> And these Black leaders know it too.
>>
>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
>>
>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
>>
>> 0:->
>>
>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
>>
>>
>>
>>> Doan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... spanking, of course.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>>>
>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>>>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>>>
>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>
>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>>>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>>>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>>>
>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>>>> violence.
>>>>
>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>>>
>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>
>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>>>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>>>> punishment of children.
>>>>
>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>>>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
>>>>
>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>>>
>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>>>> corporal punishment.
>>>>
>>>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
>>>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>>>> black community.
>>>>
>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>>>
>>>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>>>> get.�
>>>>
>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>>>
>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>>>> ten times the white rate.
>>>>
>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>>>
>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>>>
>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>>
>> --
>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Doan]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> > Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
> > and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
> >
> > Doan
>
> Hey there, Monkeyboy. Fabulous debating skill. Your argument is so
> unique to you.
>
Hihihi! And tore you apart every time!

> R R R R R
>
> Apparently there is some disagreement what the "research" you claim
> says, and what it really says. AND, apparently some disagreement in the
> Black community with the results of a 1996 study.
>
> http://nospank.net/poussaint-release.pdf
>
It didn't say anything about the particular research I cited, STUPID!

> That's the truth, boy.
>
You can't handle the truth! ;-)

AF

> 0:->
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> Doan wrote:
> >>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> >>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> >>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> >>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> >>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> >>> agression in the Black community.
> >> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
> >>
> >>> References:
> >>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> >>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> >>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> >>> 32, 1065-1072.
> >> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
> >> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
> >> abstract. Tsk.
> >>
> >> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
> >>
> >> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
> >> provided the link:
> >>
> >> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
> >>
> >> "1996
> >>
> >> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
> >> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> >> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> >> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
> >>
> >> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
> >> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
> >> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
> >> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
> >> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
> >> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
> >> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
> >> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
> >> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
> >> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> >> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> >> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
> >>
> >> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
> >> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
> >>
> >> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
> >> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
> >>
> >> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
> >> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
> >> Am families to the count of 466.
> >>
> >> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
> >> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
> >>
> >> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
> >>
> >> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
> >>
> >>
> >> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
> >>
> >> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
> >> again.
> >>
> >> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
> >>
> >> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
> >> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
> >>
> >> Neither of the words related to research.
> >>
> >> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
> >> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
> >>
> >> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
> >> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
> >>
> >> I note this is from a 1996 study.
> >>
> >> I quote an opinion from 2006.
> >>
> >> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
> >> cited.
> >>
> >> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
> >> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
> >> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
> >> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
> >>
> >> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
> >>
> >> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
> >> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
> >> making:
> >>
> >> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
> >>
> >> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
> >> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
> >>
> >> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
> >> Christian churches included.
> >>
> >> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
> >> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
> >> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
> >>
> >> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
> >> control a child. None.
> >>
> >> And these Black leaders know it too.
> >>
> >> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
> >>
> >> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
> >>
> >> 0:->
> >>
> >> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
> >> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
> >> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Doan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> ... spanking, of course.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> >>>>
> >>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> >>>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
> >>>> By Salim Muwakkil
> >>>>
> >>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> >>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> >>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>
> >>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> >>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> >>>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> >>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> >>>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
> >>>>
> >>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> >>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> >>>> violence.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> >>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> >>>>
> >>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> >>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> >>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
> >>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> >>>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> >>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> >>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> >>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> >>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> >>>> punishment of children.
> >>>>
> >>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> >>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> >>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> >>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> >>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> >>>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
> >>>>
> >>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> >>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> >>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> >>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> >>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> >>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
> >>>>
> >>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> >>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> >>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> >>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> >>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> >>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> >>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> >>>> corporal punishment.
> >>>>
> >>>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
> >>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
> >>>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
> >>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> >>>> black community.
> >>>>
> >>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> >>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> >>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> >>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> >>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> >>>>
> >>>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
> >>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
> >>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
> >>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> >>>> get.�
> >>>>
> >>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> >>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
> >>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> >>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> >>>>
> >>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> >>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> >>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> >>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> >>>> ten times the white rate.
> >>>>
> >>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> >>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> >>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> >>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> >>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
> >>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
> >>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> >>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> >>>>
> >>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> >>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
> >>
> >> --
> >> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> Doan wrote:
>>> Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
>>> and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
>>>
>>> Doan
>> Hey there, Monkeyboy. Fabulous debating skill. Your argument is so
>> unique to you.
>>
> Hihihi! And tore you apart every time!

You are delusional.

>
>> R R R R R
>>
>> Apparently there is some disagreement what the "research" you claim
>> says, and what it really says. AND, apparently some disagreement in the
>> Black community with the results of a 1996 study.
>>
>> http://nospank.net/poussaint-release.pdf
>>
> It didn't say anything about the particular research I cited, STUPID!

Why not, monkeyboy? Afraid to have it read in full?

>> That's the truth, boy.
>>
> You can't handle the truth! ;-)

Just did, stupid.

You can't even handle what you post, unless you butcher it by context
abortion.

> AF

0:->




>> 0:->
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doan wrote:
>>>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
>>>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
>>>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
>>>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
>>>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
>>>>> agression in the Black community.
>>>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>>>>
>>>>> References:
>>>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
>>>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
>>>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
>>>>> 32, 1065-1072.
>>>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
>>>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
>>>> abstract. Tsk.
>>>>
>>>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
>>>>
>>>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
>>>> provided the link:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
>>>>
>>>> "1996
>>>>
>>>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
>>>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
>>>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
>>>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>>>>
>>>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
>>>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
>>>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
>>>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
>>>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
>>>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
>>>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
>>>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
>>>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
>>>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
>>>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
>>>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
>>>>
>>>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
>>>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
>>>>
>>>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
>>>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
>>>>
>>>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
>>>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
>>>> Am families to the count of 466.
>>>>
>>>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
>>>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
>>>>
>>>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
>>>>
>>>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
>>>>
>>>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
>>>> again.
>>>>
>>>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
>>>>
>>>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
>>>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
>>>>
>>>> Neither of the words related to research.
>>>>
>>>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
>>>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
>>>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
>>>>
>>>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
>>>>
>>>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
>>>>
>>>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
>>>> cited.
>>>>
>>>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
>>>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
>>>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
>>>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
>>>>
>>>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
>>>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
>>>> making:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
>>>>
>>>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
>>>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
>>>>
>>>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
>>>> Christian churches included.
>>>>
>>>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
>>>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
>>>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
>>>>
>>>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
>>>> control a child. None.
>>>>
>>>> And these Black leaders know it too.
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
>>>>
>>>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
>>>>
>>>> 0:->
>>>>
>>>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
>>>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
>>>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Doan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... spanking, of course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>>>>>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
>>>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>>>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>>>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>>>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>>>>>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>>>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>>>>>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>>>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>>>>>> violence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>>>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>>>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>>>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
>>>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>>>>>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>>>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>>>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>>>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>>>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>>>>>> punishment of children.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>>>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>>>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>>>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>>>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>>>>>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>>>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>>>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>>>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>>>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>>>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>>>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>>>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>>>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>>>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>>>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>>>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>>>>>> corporal punishment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
>>>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
>>>>>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
>>>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>>>>>> black community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>>>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>>>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>>>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>>>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
>>>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
>>>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
>>>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>>>>>> get.�
>>>>>>
>>>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>>>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
>>>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>>>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>>>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>>>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>>>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>>>>>> ten times the white rate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>>>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>>>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>>>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>>>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
>>>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
>>>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>>>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>>>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>>>> --
>>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
> Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
> and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!

Let's see now. It was YOU, stupid monkeyboy that did not provide a link,
while it was I that did, to the material you claimed supported your
stupid "It is the lack of spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to
be associates with higher misbehavior and agression in the Black
community." [sic] It showed nothing of the sort.

Try again, liar. 0:->

>
> Doan
>
>
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> Doan wrote:
>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
>>> agression in the Black community.
>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>>
>>> References:
>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
>>> 32, 1065-1072.
>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
>> abstract. Tsk.
>>
>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
>>
>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
>> provided the link:
>>
>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
>>
>> "1996
>>
>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>>
>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
>>
>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
>>
>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
>>
>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
>> Am families to the count of 466.
>>
>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
>>
>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
>>
>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
>>
>>
>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
>>
>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
>> again.
>>
>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
>>
>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
>>
>> Neither of the words related to research.
>>
>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
>>
>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
>>
>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
>>
>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
>>
>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
>> cited.
>>
>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
>>
>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
>>
>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
>> making:
>>
>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
>>
>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
>>
>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
>> Christian churches included.
>>
>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
>>
>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
>> control a child. None.
>>
>> And these Black leaders know it too.
>>
>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
>>
>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
>>
>> 0:->
>>
>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
>>
>>
>>
>>> Doan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... spanking, of course.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>>>
>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>>>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>>>
>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>
>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>>>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>>>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>>>
>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>>>> violence.
>>>>
>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>>>
>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>
>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>>>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>>>> punishment of children.
>>>>
>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>>>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
>>>>
>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>>>
>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>>>> corporal punishment.
>>>>
>>>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
>>>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>>>> black community.
>>>>
>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>>>
>>>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>>>> get.�
>>>>
>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>>>
>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>>>> ten times the white rate.
>>>>
>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>>>
>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>>>
>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>>
>> --
>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Doan]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> > On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> Doan wrote:
> >>> Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
> >>> and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
> >>>
> >>> Doan
> >> Hey there, Monkeyboy. Fabulous debating skill. Your argument is so
> >> unique to you.
> >>
> > Hihihi! And tore you apart every time!
>
> You are delusional.
>
Nope! You are!
> >
> >> R R R R R
> >>
> >> Apparently there is some disagreement what the "research" you claim
> >> says, and what it really says. AND, apparently some disagreement in the
> >> Black community with the results of a 1996 study.
> >>
> >> http://nospank.net/poussaint-release.pdf
> >>
> > It didn't say anything about the particular research I cited, STUPID!
>
> Why not, monkeyboy? Afraid to have it read in full?
>
Huh? I already have, STUPID. What does it say anything about the
research I cited, STUPID?

> >> That's the truth, boy.
> >>
> > You can't handle the truth! ;-)
>
> Just did, stupid.
>
NOpe, STUPID!

> You can't even handle what you post, unless you butcher it by context
> abortion.
>
Hahaha! Is that another "abreaction"?

AF
> > AF
>
> 0:->
>
>
>
>
> >> 0:->
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Doan wrote:
> >>>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> >>>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> >>>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> >>>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> >>>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> >>>>> agression in the Black community.
> >>>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
> >>>>
> >>>>> References:
> >>>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> >>>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> >>>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> >>>>> 32, 1065-1072.
> >>>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
> >>>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
> >>>> abstract. Tsk.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
> >>>>
> >>>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
> >>>> provided the link:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
> >>>>
> >>>> "1996
> >>>>
> >>>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
> >>>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> >>>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> >>>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
> >>>>
> >>>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
> >>>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
> >>>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
> >>>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
> >>>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
> >>>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
> >>>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
> >>>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
> >>>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
> >>>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> >>>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> >>>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
> >>>>
> >>>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
> >>>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
> >>>>
> >>>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
> >>>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
> >>>>
> >>>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
> >>>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
> >>>> Am families to the count of 466.
> >>>>
> >>>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
> >>>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
> >>>>
> >>>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
> >>>>
> >>>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
> >>>>
> >>>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
> >>>> again.
> >>>>
> >>>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
> >>>>
> >>>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
> >>>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
> >>>>
> >>>> Neither of the words related to research.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
> >>>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
> >>>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
> >>>>
> >>>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
> >>>>
> >>>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
> >>>>
> >>>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
> >>>> cited.
> >>>>
> >>>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
> >>>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
> >>>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
> >>>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
> >>>>
> >>>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
> >>>>
> >>>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
> >>>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
> >>>> making:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
> >>>>
> >>>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
> >>>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
> >>>>
> >>>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
> >>>> Christian churches included.
> >>>>
> >>>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
> >>>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
> >>>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
> >>>> control a child. None.
> >>>>
> >>>> And these Black leaders know it too.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
> >>>>
> >>>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
> >>>>
> >>>> 0:->
> >>>>
> >>>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
> >>>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
> >>>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Doan
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ... spanking, of course.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> >>>>>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
> >>>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> >>>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> >>>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> >>>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> >>>>>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> >>>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> >>>>>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> >>>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> >>>>>> violence.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> >>>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> >>>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> >>>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
> >>>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> >>>>>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> >>>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> >>>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> >>>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> >>>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> >>>>>> punishment of children.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> >>>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> >>>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> >>>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> >>>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> >>>>>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> >>>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> >>>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> >>>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> >>>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> >>>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> >>>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> >>>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> >>>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> >>>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> >>>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> >>>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> >>>>>> corporal punishment.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
> >>>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
> >>>>>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
> >>>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> >>>>>> black community.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> >>>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> >>>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> >>>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> >>>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
> >>>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
> >>>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
> >>>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> >>>>>> get.�
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> >>>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
> >>>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> >>>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> >>>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> >>>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> >>>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> >>>>>> ten times the white rate.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> >>>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> >>>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> >>>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> >>>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
> >>>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
> >>>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> >>>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> >>>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
> >>>> --
> >>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >>>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>

[Doan]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> > Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
> > and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
>
> Let's see now. It was YOU, stupid monkeyboy that did not provide a link,
> while it was I that did, to the material you claimed supported your
> stupid "It is the lack of spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to
> be associates with higher misbehavior and agression in the Black
> community." [sic] It showed nothing of the sort.
>
Hahaha! Showing your STUPIDITY, again. Can even understand what the
research say. YOU ARE STUPID!

> Try again, liar. 0:->
>
The only liar here is you! ;-)

AF

> >
> > Doan
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> Doan wrote:
> >>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> >>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> >>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> >>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> >>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> >>> agression in the Black community.
> >> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
> >>
> >>> References:
> >>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> >>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> >>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> >>> 32, 1065-1072.
> >> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
> >> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
> >> abstract. Tsk.
> >>
> >> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
> >>
> >> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
> >> provided the link:
> >>
> >> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
> >>
> >> "1996
> >>
> >> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
> >> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> >> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> >> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
> >>
> >> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
> >> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
> >> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
> >> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
> >> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
> >> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
> >> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
> >> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
> >> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
> >> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> >> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> >> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
> >>
> >> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
> >> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
> >>
> >> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
> >> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
> >>
> >> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
> >> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
> >> Am families to the count of 466.
> >>
> >> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
> >> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
> >>
> >> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
> >>
> >> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
> >>
> >>
> >> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
> >>
> >> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
> >> again.
> >>
> >> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
> >>
> >> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
> >> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
> >>
> >> Neither of the words related to research.
> >>
> >> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
> >> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
> >>
> >> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
> >> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
> >>
> >> I note this is from a 1996 study.
> >>
> >> I quote an opinion from 2006.
> >>
> >> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
> >> cited.
> >>
> >> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
> >> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
> >> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
> >> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
> >>
> >> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
> >>
> >> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
> >> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
> >> making:
> >>
> >> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
> >>
> >> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
> >> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
> >>
> >> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
> >> Christian churches included.
> >>
> >> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
> >> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
> >> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
> >>
> >> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
> >> control a child. None.
> >>
> >> And these Black leaders know it too.
> >>
> >> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
> >>
> >> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
> >>
> >> 0:->
> >>
> >> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
> >> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
> >> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Doan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> ... spanking, of course.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> >>>>
> >>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> >>>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
> >>>> By Salim Muwakkil
> >>>>
> >>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> >>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> >>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>
> >>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> >>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> >>>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> >>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> >>>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
> >>>>
> >>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> >>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> >>>> violence.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> >>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> >>>>
> >>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> >>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> >>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
> >>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> >>>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> >>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> >>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> >>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> >>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> >>>> punishment of children.
> >>>>
> >>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> >>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> >>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> >>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> >>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> >>>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
> >>>>
> >>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> >>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> >>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> >>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> >>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> >>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
> >>>>
> >>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> >>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> >>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> >>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> >>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> >>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> >>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> >>>> corporal punishment.
> >>>>
> >>>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
> >>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
> >>>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
> >>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> >>>> black community.
> >>>>
> >>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> >>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> >>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> >>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> >>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> >>>>
> >>>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
> >>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
> >>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
> >>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> >>>> get.�
> >>>>
> >>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> >>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
> >>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> >>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> >>>>
> >>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> >>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> >>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> >>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> >>>> ten times the white rate.
> >>>>
> >>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> >>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> >>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> >>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> >>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
> >>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
> >>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> >>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> >>>>
> >>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> >>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
> >>
> >> --
> >> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>

[Doan]

More study on the benefit of spanking on Black community.
"Regression slops showed that the experience of physical discipline
at each time point was related to higher level of externalizing behaviors
for European American adlolescents but lower level of externalizing
behaviors for African American adolescents."

Sources:
Ethnic differences in the link between physical discipline and later
adolescent externalizing behaviors, Jennifer E. Lansford, Kirby
Deater-Deckard, Kenneth A. Dodge, John E. Bates, and Gregory S. Pettit
Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).

Doan

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, Doan wrote:

>
> Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
> and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
>
> Doan
>
>
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>
> > Doan wrote:
> > > Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> > > the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> > > that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> > > lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> > > been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> > > agression in the Black community.
> >
> > Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
> >
> > >
> > > References:
> > > Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> > > Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> > > Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> > > 32, 1065-1072.
> >
> > R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
> > other significant portions of their research report...not even an
> > abstract. Tsk.
> >
> > Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
> >
> > Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
> > provided the link:
> >
> > http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
> >
> > "1996
> >
> > * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
> > (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> > mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> > Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
> >
> > The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
> > physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
> > status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
> > children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
> > kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
> > discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
> > peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
> > between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
> > peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
> > higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> > These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> > punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
> >
> > Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
> > to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
> >
> > You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
> > study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
> >
> > We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
> > socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
> > Am families to the count of 466.
> >
> > They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
> > exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
> >
> > You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
> >
> > Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
> >
> >
> > I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
> >
> > And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
> > again.
> >
> > The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
> >
> > Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
> > it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
> >
> > Neither of the words related to research.
> >
> > As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
> > see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
> >
> > I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
> > for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
> >
> > I note this is from a 1996 study.
> >
> > I quote an opinion from 2006.
> >
> > He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
> > cited.
> >
> > Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
> > society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
> > psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
> > African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
> >
> > I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
> >
> > Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
> > agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
> > making:
> >
> > http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
> >
> > The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
> > obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
> >
> > And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
> > Christian churches included.
> >
> > Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
> > scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
> > and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
> >
> > There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
> > control a child. None.
> >
> > And these Black leaders know it too.
> >
> > Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
> >
> > Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
> >
> > 0:->
> >
> > "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
> > psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
> > .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Doan
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> > >
> > >> ... spanking, of course.
> > >>
> > >> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> > >>
> > >> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> > >> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
> > >> By Salim Muwakkil
> > >>
> > >> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> > >> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> > >> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> > >>
> > >> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> > >> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> > >> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> > >> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> > >> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
> > >>
> > >> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> > >> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> > >> violence.
> > >>
> > >> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> > >> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> > >>
> > >> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> > >> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> > >> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> > >>
> > >> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
> > >> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> > >> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> > >> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> > >> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> > >> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> > >> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> > >> punishment of children.
> > >>
> > >> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> > >> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> > >> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> > >> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> > >> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> > >> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
> > >>
> > >> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> > >> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> > >> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> > >> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> > >> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> > >> for a society that called itself civilized.
> > >>
> > >> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> > >> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> > >> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> > >> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> > >> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> > >> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> > >> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> > >> corporal punishment.
> > >>
> > >> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
> > >> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
> > >> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
> > >> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> > >> black community.
> > >>
> > >> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> > >> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> > >> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> > >> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> > >> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> > >>
> > >> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
> > >> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
> > >> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
> > >> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> > >> get.�
> > >>
> > >> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> > >> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
> > >> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> > >> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> > >>
> > >> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> > >> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> > >> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> > >> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> > >> ten times the white rate.
> > >>
> > >> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> > >> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> > >> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> > >> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> > >> responsibility and cultural standards.
> > >>
> > >> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
> > >> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
> > >> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> > >> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> > >>
> > >> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> > >> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> > to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> > contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >
>
>

[0:->]

Doan wrote:

.... another mindless spewing babble....

> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> Doan wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doan wrote:
>>>>> Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
>>>>> and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
>>>>>
>>>>> Doan
>>>> Hey there, Monkeyboy. Fabulous debating skill. Your argument is so
>>>> unique to you.
>>>>
>>> Hihihi! And tore you apart every time!
>> You are delusional.
>>
> Nope! You are!
>>>> R R R R R
>>>>
>>>> Apparently there is some disagreement what the "research" you claim
>>>> says, and what it really says. AND, apparently some disagreement in the
>>>> Black community with the results of a 1996 study.
>>>>
>>>> http://nospank.net/poussaint-release.pdf
>>>>
>>> It didn't say anything about the particular research I cited, STUPID!
>> Why not, monkeyboy? Afraid to have it read in full?
>>
> Huh? I already have, STUPID. What does it say anything about the
> research I cited, STUPID?
>
>>>> That's the truth, boy.
>>>>
>>> You can't handle the truth! ;-)
>> Just did, stupid.
>>
> NOpe, STUPID!
>
>> You can't even handle what you post, unless you butcher it by context
>> abortion.
>>
> Hahaha! Is that another "abreaction"?
>
> AF
>>> AF
>> 0:->
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> 0:->
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Doan wrote:
>>>>>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
>>>>>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
>>>>>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
>>>>>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
>>>>>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
>>>>>>> agression in the Black community.
>>>>>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> References:
>>>>>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
>>>>>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
>>>>>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
>>>>>>> 32, 1065-1072.
>>>>>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
>>>>>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
>>>>>> abstract. Tsk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
>>>>>> provided the link:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "1996
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
>>>>>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
>>>>>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
>>>>>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
>>>>>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
>>>>>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
>>>>>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
>>>>>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
>>>>>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
>>>>>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
>>>>>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
>>>>>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
>>>>>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
>>>>>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
>>>>>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
>>>>>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
>>>>>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
>>>>>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
>>>>>> Am families to the count of 466.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
>>>>>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
>>>>>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neither of the words related to research.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
>>>>>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
>>>>>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
>>>>>> cited.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
>>>>>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
>>>>>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
>>>>>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
>>>>>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
>>>>>> making:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
>>>>>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
>>>>>> Christian churches included.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
>>>>>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
>>>>>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
>>>>>> control a child. None.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And these Black leaders know it too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 0:->
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
>>>>>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
>>>>>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ... spanking, of course.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>>>>>>>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
>>>>>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>>>>>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>>>>>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>>>>>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>>>>>>>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>>>>>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>>>>>>>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>>>>>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>>>>>>>> violence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>>>>>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>>>>>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>>>>>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
>>>>>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>>>>>>>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>>>>>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>>>>>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>>>>>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>>>>>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>>>>>>>> punishment of children.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>>>>>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>>>>>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>>>>>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>>>>>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>>>>>>>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>>>>>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>>>>>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>>>>>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>>>>>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>>>>>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>>>>>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>>>>>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>>>>>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>>>>>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>>>>>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>>>>>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>>>>>>>> corporal punishment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
>>>>>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
>>>>>>>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
>>>>>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>>>>>>>> black community.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>>>>>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>>>>>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>>>>>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>>>>>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
>>>>>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
>>>>>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
>>>>>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>>>>>>>> get.�
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>>>>>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
>>>>>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>>>>>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>>>>>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>>>>>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>>>>>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>>>>>>>> ten times the white rate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>>>>>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>>>>>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>>>>>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>>>>>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
>>>>>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
>>>>>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>>>>>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>>>>>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>>>>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>>>>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[0:->]

Doan wrote:

....yet more incoherent babbling spew from the Ranting, Screeching,
Hysterical, Dancing, Monkeyboy. ....


> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> Doan wrote:
>>> Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
>>> and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
>> Let's see now. It was YOU, stupid monkeyboy that did not provide a link,
>> while it was I that did, to the material you claimed supported your
>> stupid "It is the lack of spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to
>> be associates with higher misbehavior and agression in the Black
>> community." [sic] It showed nothing of the sort.
>>
> Hahaha! Showing your STUPIDITY, again. Can even understand what the
> research say. YOU ARE STUPID!
>
>> Try again, liar. 0:->
>>
> The only liar here is you! ;-)
>
> AF
>
>>> Doan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doan wrote:
>>>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
>>>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
>>>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
>>>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
>>>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
>>>>> agression in the Black community.
>>>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>>>>
>>>>> References:
>>>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
>>>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
>>>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
>>>>> 32, 1065-1072.
>>>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
>>>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
>>>> abstract. Tsk.
>>>>
>>>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
>>>>
>>>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
>>>> provided the link:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
>>>>
>>>> "1996
>>>>
>>>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
>>>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
>>>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
>>>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>>>>
>>>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
>>>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
>>>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
>>>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
>>>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
>>>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
>>>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
>>>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
>>>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
>>>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
>>>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
>>>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
>>>>
>>>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
>>>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
>>>>
>>>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
>>>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
>>>>
>>>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
>>>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
>>>> Am families to the count of 466.
>>>>
>>>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
>>>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
>>>>
>>>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
>>>>
>>>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
>>>>
>>>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
>>>> again.
>>>>
>>>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
>>>>
>>>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
>>>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
>>>>
>>>> Neither of the words related to research.
>>>>
>>>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
>>>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
>>>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
>>>>
>>>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
>>>>
>>>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
>>>>
>>>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
>>>> cited.
>>>>
>>>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
>>>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
>>>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
>>>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
>>>>
>>>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
>>>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
>>>> making:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
>>>>
>>>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
>>>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
>>>>
>>>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
>>>> Christian churches included.
>>>>
>>>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
>>>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
>>>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
>>>>
>>>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
>>>> control a child. None.
>>>>
>>>> And these Black leaders know it too.
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
>>>>
>>>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
>>>>
>>>> 0:->
>>>>
>>>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
>>>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
>>>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Doan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... spanking, of course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>>>>>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
>>>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>>>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>>>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>>>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>>>>>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>>>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>>>>>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>>>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>>>>>> violence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>>>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>>>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>>>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
>>>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>>>>>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>>>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>>>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>>>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>>>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>>>>>> punishment of children.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>>>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>>>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>>>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>>>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>>>>>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>>>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>>>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>>>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>>>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>>>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>>>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>>>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>>>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>>>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>>>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>>>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>>>>>> corporal punishment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
>>>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
>>>>>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
>>>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>>>>>> black community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>>>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>>>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>>>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>>>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
>>>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
>>>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
>>>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>>>>>> get.�
>>>>>>
>>>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>>>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
>>>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>>>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>>>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>>>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>>>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>>>>>> ten times the white rate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>>>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>>>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>>>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>>>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
>>>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
>>>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>>>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>>>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>>>> --
>>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
> More study on the benefit of spanking on Black community.
> "Regression slops showed that the experience of physical discipline
> at each time point was related to higher level of externalizing behaviors
> for European American adlolescents but lower level of externalizing
> behaviors for African American adolescents."

Doesn't support your claim of "It is the lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community,"[sic] now does it, dummy?

Buy the way, what is a "regression slops?"

> Sources:
> Ethnic differences in the link between physical discipline and later
> adolescent externalizing behaviors, Jennifer E. Lansford, Kirby
> Deater-Deckard, Kenneth A. Dodge, John E. Bates, and Gregory S. Pettit
> Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).

We weren't arguing ethnic differences. The article I posted did not
mention Caucasians, and neither did I.

The question is, and still unproven by you, "It is the lack of spanking
that has been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher
misbehavior and agression in the Black community."

Try again, stupid little monkeyboy.

0:->


>
> Doan
>
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, Doan wrote:
>
>> Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
>> and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
>>
>> Doan
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>
>>> Doan wrote:
>>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
>>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
>>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
>>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
>>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
>>>> agression in the Black community.
>>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>>>
>>>> References:
>>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
>>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
>>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
>>>> 32, 1065-1072.
>>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
>>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
>>> abstract. Tsk.
>>>
>>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
>>>
>>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
>>> provided the link:
>>>
>>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
>>>
>>> "1996
>>>
>>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
>>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
>>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
>>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>>>
>>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
>>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
>>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
>>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
>>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
>>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
>>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
>>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
>>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
>>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
>>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
>>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
>>>
>>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
>>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
>>>
>>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
>>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
>>>
>>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
>>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
>>> Am families to the count of 466.
>>>
>>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
>>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
>>>
>>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
>>>
>>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
>>>
>>>
>>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
>>>
>>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
>>> again.
>>>
>>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
>>>
>>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
>>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
>>>
>>> Neither of the words related to research.
>>>
>>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
>>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
>>>
>>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
>>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
>>>
>>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
>>>
>>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
>>>
>>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
>>> cited.
>>>
>>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
>>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
>>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
>>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
>>>
>>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
>>>
>>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
>>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
>>> making:
>>>
>>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
>>>
>>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
>>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
>>>
>>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
>>> Christian churches included.
>>>
>>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
>>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
>>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
>>>
>>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
>>> control a child. None.
>>>
>>> And these Black leaders know it too.
>>>
>>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
>>>
>>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
>>>
>>> 0:->
>>>
>>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
>>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
>>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Doan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ... spanking, of course.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>>>>
>>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>>>>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
>>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>>>>
>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>
>>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>>>>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>>>>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>>>>
>>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>>>>> violence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
>>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>>>>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>>>>> punishment of children.
>>>>>
>>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>>>>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
>>>>>
>>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>>>>
>>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>>>>> corporal punishment.
>>>>>
>>>>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
>>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
>>>>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
>>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>>>>> black community.
>>>>>
>>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>>>>
>>>>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
>>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
>>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
>>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>>>>> get.�
>>>>>
>>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
>>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>>>>> ten times the white rate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
>>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
>>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>>>>
>>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>>
>>
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Doan]

A another stupid post from a STUPID person known as Kane0. That's nine
less than a Kane9. ;-)

Doan


On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
>
> ... another mindless spewing babble....
>
> > On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> Doan wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Doan wrote:
> >>>>> Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
> >>>>> and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Doan
> >>>> Hey there, Monkeyboy. Fabulous debating skill. Your argument is so
> >>>> unique to you.
> >>>>
> >>> Hihihi! And tore you apart every time!
> >> You are delusional.
> >>
> > Nope! You are!
> >>>> R R R R R
> >>>>
> >>>> Apparently there is some disagreement what the "research" you claim
> >>>> says, and what it really says. AND, apparently some disagreement in the
> >>>> Black community with the results of a 1996 study.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://nospank.net/poussaint-release.pdf
> >>>>
> >>> It didn't say anything about the particular research I cited, STUPID!
> >> Why not, monkeyboy? Afraid to have it read in full?
> >>
> > Huh? I already have, STUPID. What does it say anything about the
> > research I cited, STUPID?
> >
> >>>> That's the truth, boy.
> >>>>
> >>> You can't handle the truth! ;-)
> >> Just did, stupid.
> >>
> > NOpe, STUPID!
> >
> >> You can't even handle what you post, unless you butcher it by context
> >> abortion.
> >>
> > Hahaha! Is that another "abreaction"?
> >
> > AF
> >>> AF
> >> 0:->
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>> 0:->
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Doan wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> >>>>>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> >>>>>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> >>>>>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> >>>>>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> >>>>>>> agression in the Black community.
> >>>>>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> References:
> >>>>>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> >>>>>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> >>>>>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> >>>>>>> 32, 1065-1072.
> >>>>>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
> >>>>>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
> >>>>>> abstract. Tsk.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
> >>>>>> provided the link:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "1996
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
> >>>>>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> >>>>>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> >>>>>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
> >>>>>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
> >>>>>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
> >>>>>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
> >>>>>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
> >>>>>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
> >>>>>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
> >>>>>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
> >>>>>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
> >>>>>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> >>>>>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> >>>>>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
> >>>>>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
> >>>>>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
> >>>>>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
> >>>>>> Am families to the count of 466.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
> >>>>>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
> >>>>>> again.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
> >>>>>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Neither of the words related to research.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
> >>>>>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
> >>>>>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
> >>>>>> cited.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
> >>>>>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
> >>>>>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
> >>>>>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
> >>>>>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
> >>>>>> making:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
> >>>>>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
> >>>>>> Christian churches included.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
> >>>>>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
> >>>>>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
> >>>>>> control a child. None.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And these Black leaders know it too.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 0:->
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
> >>>>>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
> >>>>>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Doan
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ... spanking, of course.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> >>>>>>>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
> >>>>>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> >>>>>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> >>>>>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> >>>>>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> >>>>>>>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> >>>>>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> >>>>>>>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> >>>>>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> >>>>>>>> violence.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> >>>>>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> >>>>>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> >>>>>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
> >>>>>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> >>>>>>>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> >>>>>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> >>>>>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> >>>>>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> >>>>>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> >>>>>>>> punishment of children.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> >>>>>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> >>>>>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> >>>>>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> >>>>>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> >>>>>>>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> >>>>>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> >>>>>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> >>>>>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> >>>>>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> >>>>>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> >>>>>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> >>>>>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> >>>>>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> >>>>>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> >>>>>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> >>>>>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> >>>>>>>> corporal punishment.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
> >>>>>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
> >>>>>>>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
> >>>>>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> >>>>>>>> black community.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> >>>>>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> >>>>>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> >>>>>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> >>>>>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
> >>>>>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
> >>>>>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
> >>>>>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> >>>>>>>> get.�
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> >>>>>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
> >>>>>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> >>>>>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> >>>>>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> >>>>>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> >>>>>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> >>>>>>>> ten times the white rate.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> >>>>>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> >>>>>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> >>>>>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> >>>>>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
> >>>>>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
> >>>>>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> >>>>>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> >>>>>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >>>>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >>>>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >>>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >>>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>

[Doan]

Yet more STUPIDITY from anti-spanking zealotS, whose mother taught that it
is ok to call other women a "smelly-****"! What a testament to the
anti-spanking agenda! ;-)

Doan


On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
>
> ...yet more incoherent babbling spew from the Ranting, Screeching,
> Hysterical, Dancing, Monkeyboy. ....
>
>
> > On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> Doan wrote:
> >>> Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
> >>> and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
> >> Let's see now. It was YOU, stupid monkeyboy that did not provide a link,
> >> while it was I that did, to the material you claimed supported your
> >> stupid "It is the lack of spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to
> >> be associates with higher misbehavior and agression in the Black
> >> community." [sic] It showed nothing of the sort.
> >>
> > Hahaha! Showing your STUPIDITY, again. Can even understand what the
> > research say. YOU ARE STUPID!
> >
> >> Try again, liar. 0:->
> >>
> > The only liar here is you! ;-)
> >
> > AF
> >
> >>> Doan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Doan wrote:
> >>>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> >>>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> >>>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> >>>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> >>>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> >>>>> agression in the Black community.
> >>>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
> >>>>
> >>>>> References:
> >>>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> >>>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> >>>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> >>>>> 32, 1065-1072.
> >>>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
> >>>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
> >>>> abstract. Tsk.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
> >>>>
> >>>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
> >>>> provided the link:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
> >>>>
> >>>> "1996
> >>>>
> >>>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
> >>>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> >>>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> >>>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
> >>>>
> >>>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
> >>>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
> >>>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
> >>>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
> >>>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
> >>>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
> >>>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
> >>>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
> >>>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
> >>>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> >>>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> >>>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
> >>>>
> >>>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
> >>>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
> >>>>
> >>>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
> >>>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
> >>>>
> >>>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
> >>>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
> >>>> Am families to the count of 466.
> >>>>
> >>>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
> >>>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
> >>>>
> >>>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
> >>>>
> >>>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
> >>>>
> >>>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
> >>>> again.
> >>>>
> >>>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
> >>>>
> >>>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
> >>>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
> >>>>
> >>>> Neither of the words related to research.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
> >>>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
> >>>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
> >>>>
> >>>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
> >>>>
> >>>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
> >>>>
> >>>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
> >>>> cited.
> >>>>
> >>>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
> >>>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
> >>>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
> >>>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
> >>>>
> >>>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
> >>>>
> >>>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
> >>>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
> >>>> making:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
> >>>>
> >>>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
> >>>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
> >>>>
> >>>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
> >>>> Christian churches included.
> >>>>
> >>>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
> >>>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
> >>>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
> >>>> control a child. None.
> >>>>
> >>>> And these Black leaders know it too.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
> >>>>
> >>>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
> >>>>
> >>>> 0:->
> >>>>
> >>>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
> >>>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
> >>>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Doan
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ... spanking, of course.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> >>>>>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
> >>>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> >>>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> >>>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> >>>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> >>>>>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> >>>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> >>>>>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> >>>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> >>>>>> violence.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> >>>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> >>>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> >>>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
> >>>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> >>>>>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> >>>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> >>>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> >>>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> >>>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> >>>>>> punishment of children.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> >>>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> >>>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> >>>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> >>>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> >>>>>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> >>>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> >>>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> >>>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> >>>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> >>>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> >>>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> >>>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> >>>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> >>>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> >>>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> >>>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> >>>>>> corporal punishment.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
> >>>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
> >>>>>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
> >>>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> >>>>>> black community.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> >>>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> >>>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> >>>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> >>>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
> >>>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
> >>>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
> >>>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> >>>>>> get.�
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> >>>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
> >>>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> >>>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> >>>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> >>>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> >>>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> >>>>>> ten times the white rate.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> >>>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> >>>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> >>>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> >>>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
> >>>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
> >>>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> >>>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> >>>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
> >>>> --
> >>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >>>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>

[Doan]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> > Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
> > and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
>
> Let's see now. It was YOU, stupid monkeyboy that did not provide a link,
> while it was I that did, to the material you claimed supported your
> stupid "It is the lack of spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to
> be associates with higher misbehavior and agression in the Black
> community." [sic] It showed nothing of the sort.
>
I provided the reference, STUPID. For $11.95 you can get a copy here:
http://content.apa.org/journals/dev/32/6/1065.html

> Try again, liar. 0:->
>
Hihihi! The prove liar here is YOU!

Doan

> >
> > Doan
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> Doan wrote:
> >>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> >>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> >>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> >>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> >>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> >>> agression in the Black community.
> >> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
> >>
> >>> References:
> >>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> >>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> >>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> >>> 32, 1065-1072.
> >> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
> >> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
> >> abstract. Tsk.
> >>
> >> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
> >>
> >> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
> >> provided the link:
> >>
> >> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
> >>
> >> "1996
> >>
> >> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
> >> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> >> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> >> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
> >>
> >> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
> >> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
> >> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
> >> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
> >> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
> >> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
> >> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
> >> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
> >> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
> >> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> >> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> >> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
> >>
> >> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
> >> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
> >>
> >> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
> >> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
> >>
> >> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
> >> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
> >> Am families to the count of 466.
> >>
> >> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
> >> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
> >>
> >> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
> >>
> >> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
> >>
> >>
> >> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
> >>
> >> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
> >> again.
> >>
> >> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
> >>
> >> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
> >> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
> >>
> >> Neither of the words related to research.
> >>
> >> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
> >> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
> >>
> >> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
> >> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
> >>
> >> I note this is from a 1996 study.
> >>
> >> I quote an opinion from 2006.
> >>
> >> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
> >> cited.
> >>
> >> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
> >> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
> >> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
> >> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
> >>
> >> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
> >>
> >> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
> >> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
> >> making:
> >>
> >> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
> >>
> >> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
> >> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
> >>
> >> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
> >> Christian churches included.
> >>
> >> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
> >> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
> >> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
> >>
> >> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
> >> control a child. None.
> >>
> >> And these Black leaders know it too.
> >>
> >> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
> >>
> >> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
> >>
> >> 0:->
> >>
> >> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
> >> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
> >> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Doan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> ... spanking, of course.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> >>>>
> >>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> >>>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
> >>>> By Salim Muwakkil
> >>>>
> >>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> >>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> >>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>
> >>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> >>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> >>>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> >>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> >>>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
> >>>>
> >>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> >>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> >>>> violence.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> >>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> >>>>
> >>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> >>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> >>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
> >>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> >>>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> >>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> >>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> >>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> >>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> >>>> punishment of children.
> >>>>
> >>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> >>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> >>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> >>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> >>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> >>>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
> >>>>
> >>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> >>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> >>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> >>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> >>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> >>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
> >>>>
> >>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> >>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> >>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> >>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> >>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> >>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> >>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> >>>> corporal punishment.
> >>>>
> >>>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
> >>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
> >>>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
> >>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> >>>> black community.
> >>>>
> >>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> >>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> >>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> >>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> >>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> >>>>
> >>>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
> >>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
> >>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
> >>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> >>>> get.�
> >>>>
> >>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> >>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
> >>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> >>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> >>>>
> >>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> >>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> >>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> >>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> >>>> ten times the white rate.
> >>>>
> >>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> >>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> >>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> >>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> >>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
> >>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
> >>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> >>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> >>>>
> >>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> >>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
> >>
> >> --
> >> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>

[Doan]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> > Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> > the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> > that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> > lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> > been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> > agression in the Black community.
>
> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>
Hihihi! Here is a more recent study:

More study on the benefit of spanking on Black community.
"Regression slopes showed that the experience of physical discipline
at each time point was related to higher level of externalizing behaviors
for European American adlolescents but lower level of externalizing
behaviors for African American adolescents."

Sources:
Ethnic differences in the link between physical discipline and later
adolescent externalizing behaviors, Jennifer E. Lansford, Kirby
Deater-Deckard, Kenneth A. Dodge, John E. Bates, and Gregory S. Pettit
Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).

> >
> > References:
> > Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> > Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> > Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> > 32, 1065-1072.
>
> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
> abstract. Tsk.
>
> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
>
> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
> provided the link:
>
Hihihi! The "never-spanked" boy tried his "formidable research skill"
again.

> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
>
> "1996
>
> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>
> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
>
> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
>
Which part of "but only among European American children" don't you
understand?

> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
>
Hihihi! Do you even understand what you are saying? Why don't you ask
your master LaVonne for a lesson in research methodology? STOP making
a fool of yourself, STUPID!

> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
> Am families to the count of 466.
>
Hihihi! What a fool!

> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
>
That you describing yourself! ;-)

> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
>
Hihihi! Which part of "but only among European American children" don't
you understand?

> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
>
Hihihi! Back to adhom again. How predictable you are!
>
> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
>
I'll do better than that. I'll even provide the original source:

http://content.apa.org/journals/dev/32/6/1065

> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
> again.
>
Hihihi! Which par of "but only among European American children" don't
you understand, "never-spanked" boy?

> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
>
Hahaha! That's a laugh! So you don't even have a research to back it up.

> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
>
Yup! "Opininion" is like an asshole; everybody got one! ;-)

> Neither of the words related to research.
>
Hihihi! So you want provide "opinion" instead of facts!

> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
>
Look it up with your "formidable research skill"! ;-)

> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
>
Hihihi!

> I note this is from a 1996 study.
>
Facts.

> I quote an opinion from 2006.
>
vs. opinion.

> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
> cited.
>
Hahaha! Do you even read what you wrote?

> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
>
What research has he authored?

> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
>
Appealing to Authority. A logical flaw! ;-)

> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
> making:
>
Opinion vs. facts! QED!

Doan

> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
>
> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
>
> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
> Christian churches included.
>
> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
>
> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
> control a child. None.
>
> And these Black leaders know it too.
>
> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
>
> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
>
> 0:->
>
> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
>
>
>
> >
> > Doan
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> ... spanking, of course.
> >>
> >> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> >>
> >> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> >> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
> >> By Salim Muwakkil
> >>
> >> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> >> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> >> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>
> >> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> >> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> >> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> >> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> >> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
> >>
> >> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> >> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> >> violence.
> >>
> >> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> >> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> >>
> >> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> >> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> >> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>
> >> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
> >> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> >> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> >> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> >> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> >> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> >> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> >> punishment of children.
> >>
> >> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> >> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> >> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> >> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> >> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> >> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
> >>
> >> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> >> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> >> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> >> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> >> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> >> for a society that called itself civilized.
> >>
> >> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> >> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> >> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> >> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> >> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> >> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> >> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> >> corporal punishment.
> >>
> >> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
> >> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
> >> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
> >> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> >> black community.
> >>
> >> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> >> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> >> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> >> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> >> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> >>
> >> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
> >> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
> >> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
> >> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> >> get.�
> >>
> >> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> >> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
> >> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> >> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> >>
> >> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> >> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> >> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> >> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> >> ten times the white rate.
> >>
> >> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> >> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> >> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> >> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> >> responsibility and cultural standards.
> >>
> >> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
> >> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
> >> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> >> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> >>
> >> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> >> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
> Yet more STUPIDITY from anti-spanking zealotS, whose mother taught that it
> is ok to call other women a "smelly-****"! What a testament to the
> anti-spanking agenda! ;-)

Note the title of thread opening post by Fern
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/9331fca29e98a1c5/8236fe075dd87035?tvc=1&q=(church)&hl=en#8236fe075dd87035

" Cocksucker Cardinal George refuses to talk to the victims of pedophile
priests (Why transgendered Cathol

Fixed font - Proportional font

From: Fern5827 - view profile
Date: Wed, Oct 30 2002 7:53 am
Email: (Fern5827)
Groups: alt.support.child-protective-services"

Yep, those pro spankers are certainly polite and obscenity free.






>
> Doan
>
>
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> Doan wrote:
>>
>> ...yet more incoherent babbling spew from the Ranting, Screeching,
>> Hysterical, Dancing, Monkeyboy. ....
>>
>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doan wrote:
>>>>> Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
>>>>> and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
>>>> Let's see now. It was YOU, stupid monkeyboy that did not provide a link,
>>>> while it was I that did, to the material you claimed supported your
>>>> stupid "It is the lack of spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to
>>>> be associates with higher misbehavior and agression in the Black
>>>> community." [sic] It showed nothing of the sort.
>>>>
>>> Hahaha! Showing your STUPIDITY, again. Can even understand what the
>>> research say. YOU ARE STUPID!
>>>
>>>> Try again, liar. 0:->
>>>>
>>> The only liar here is you! ;-)
>>>
>>> AF
>>>
>>>>> Doan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Doan wrote:
>>>>>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
>>>>>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
>>>>>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
>>>>>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
>>>>>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
>>>>>>> agression in the Black community.
>>>>>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> References:
>>>>>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
>>>>>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
>>>>>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
>>>>>>> 32, 1065-1072.
>>>>>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
>>>>>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
>>>>>> abstract. Tsk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
>>>>>> provided the link:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "1996
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
>>>>>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
>>>>>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
>>>>>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
>>>>>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
>>>>>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
>>>>>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
>>>>>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
>>>>>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
>>>>>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
>>>>>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
>>>>>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
>>>>>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
>>>>>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
>>>>>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
>>>>>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
>>>>>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
>>>>>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
>>>>>> Am families to the count of 466.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
>>>>>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
>>>>>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neither of the words related to research.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
>>>>>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
>>>>>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
>>>>>> cited.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
>>>>>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
>>>>>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
>>>>>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
>>>>>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
>>>>>> making:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
>>>>>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
>>>>>> Christian churches included.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
>>>>>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
>>>>>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
>>>>>> control a child. None.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And these Black leaders know it too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 0:->
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
>>>>>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
>>>>>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ... spanking, of course.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>>>>>>>> Corporal Punishment�s Hidden Costs
>>>>>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>>>>>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>>>>>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>>>>>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>>>>>>>> separate incidents in the city�s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>>>>>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>>>>>>>> Chicago�s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>>>>>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>>>>>>>> violence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>>>>>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>>>>>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>>>>>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment�the infliction of
>>>>>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>>>>>>>> controlling behavior�as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>>>>>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>>>>>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>>>>>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>>>>>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>>>>>>>> punishment of children.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>>>>>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>>>>>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>>>>>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>>>>>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>>>>>>>> �counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.�
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>>>>>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>>>>>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>>>>>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>>>>>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>>>>>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>>>>>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>>>>>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>>>>>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>>>>>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>>>>>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>>>>>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>>>>>>>> corporal punishment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> His major argument is simple: �the use of corporal punishment teaches
>>>>>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.� Poussaint, who was
>>>>>>>> an adviser to the popular program �The Cosby Show,� says corporal
>>>>>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>>>>>>>> black community.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>>>>>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>>>>>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>>>>>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>>>>>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> �There�s an overuse of beating kids,� he said, breaking a major taboo
>>>>>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. �So that you have 80
>>>>>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them�beat the devil
>>>>>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>>>>>>>> get.�
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>>>>>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice�s Bureau of
>>>>>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>>>>>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>>>>>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>>>>>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>>>>>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>>>>>>>> ten times the white rate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>>>>>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>>>>>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>>>>>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>>>>>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint�s
>>>>>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn�t make sense is
>>>>>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>>>>>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>>>>>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>>>>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>>>>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Greegor]

Way to go Doan!

Watch him try DENIAL, attack the sources, anything
to try to weasel out of acceptance!

He's like a CATHARTIC kid with oppositional defiant
disorder who just can't understand WHY you had the
nerve to SPANK him.



Doan wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>
> > Doan wrote:
> > > Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> > > the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> > > that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> > > lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> > > been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> > > agression in the Black community.
> >
> > Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
> >
> Hihihi! Here is a more recent study:
>
> More study on the benefit of spanking on Black community.
> "Regression slopes showed that the experience of physical discipline
> at each time point was related to higher level of externalizing behaviors
> for European American adlolescents but lower level of externalizing
> behaviors for African American adolescents."
>
> Sources:
> Ethnic differences in the link between physical discipline and later
> adolescent externalizing behaviors, Jennifer E. Lansford, Kirby
> Deater-Deckard, Kenneth A. Dodge, John E. Bates, and Gregory S. Pettit
> Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).
>
> > >
> > > References:
> > > Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> > > Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> > > Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> > > 32, 1065-1072.
> >
> > R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
> > other significant portions of their research report...not even an
> > abstract. Tsk.
> >
> > Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
> >
> > Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
> > provided the link:
> >
> Hihihi! The "never-spanked" boy tried his "formidable research skill"
> again.
>
> > http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
> >
> > "1996
> >
> > * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
> > (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> > mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> > Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
> >
> > The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
> > physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
> > status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
> > children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
> > kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
> > discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
> > peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
> > between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
> > peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
> > higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> > These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> > punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
> >
> > Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
> > to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
> >
> Which part of "but only among European American children" don't you
> understand?
>
> > You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
> > study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
> >
> Hihihi! Do you even understand what you are saying? Why don't you ask
> your master LaVonne for a lesson in research methodology? STOP making
> a fool of yourself, STUPID!
>
> > We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
> > socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
> > Am families to the count of 466.
> >
> Hihihi! What a fool!
>
> > They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
> > exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
> >
> That you describing yourself! ;-)
>
> > You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
> >
> Hihihi! Which part of "but only among European American children" don't
> you understand?
>
> > Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
> >
> Hihihi! Back to adhom again. How predictable you are!
> >
> > I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
> >
> I'll do better than that. I'll even provide the original source:
>
> http://content.apa.org/journals/dev/32/6/1065
>
> > And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
> > again.
> >
> Hihihi! Which par of "but only among European American children" don't
> you understand, "never-spanked" boy?
>
> > The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
> >
> Hahaha! That's a laugh! So you don't even have a research to back it up.
>
> > Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
> > it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
> >
> Yup! "Opininion" is like an asshole; everybody got one! ;-)
>
> > Neither of the words related to research.
> >
> Hihihi! So you want provide "opinion" instead of facts!
>
> > As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
> > see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
> >
> Look it up with your "formidable research skill"! ;-)
>
> > I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
> > for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
> >
> Hihihi!
>
> > I note this is from a 1996 study.
> >
> Facts.
>
> > I quote an opinion from 2006.
> >
> vs. opinion.
>
> > He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
> > cited.
> >
> Hahaha! Do you even read what you wrote?
>
> > Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
> > society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
> > psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
> > African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
> >
> What research has he authored?
>
> > I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
> >
> Appealing to Authority. A logical flaw! ;-)
>
> > Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
> > agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
> > making:
> >
> Opinion vs. facts! QED!
>
> Doan
>
> > http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
> >
> > The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
> > obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
> >
> > And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
> > Christian churches included.
> >
> > Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
> > scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
> > and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
> >
> > There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
> > control a child. None.
> >
> > And these Black leaders know it too.
> >
> > Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
> >
> > Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
> >
> > 0:->
> >
> > "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
> > psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
> > .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Doan
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> > >
> > >> ... spanking, of course.
> > >>
> > >> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> > >>
> > >> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> > >> Corporal Punishment?s Hidden Costs
> > >> By Salim Muwakkil
> > >>
> > >> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> > >> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> > >> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> > >>
> > >> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> > >> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> > >> separate incidents in the city?s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> > >> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> > >> Chicago?s inner-city neighborhoods.
> > >>
> > >> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> > >> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> > >> violence.
> > >>
> > >> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> > >> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> > >>
> > >> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> > >> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> > >> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> > >>
> > >> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment?the infliction of
> > >> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> > >> controlling behavior?as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> > >> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> > >> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> > >> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> > >> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> > >> punishment of children.
> > >>
> > >> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> > >> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> > >> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> > >> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> > >> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> > >> ?counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.?
> > >>
> > >> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> > >> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> > >> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> > >> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> > >> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> > >> for a society that called itself civilized.
> > >>
> > >> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> > >> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> > >> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> > >> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> > >> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> > >> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> > >> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> > >> corporal punishment.
> > >>
> > >> His major argument is simple: ?the use of corporal punishment teaches
> > >> children that violence is the way to solve problems.? Poussaint, who was
> > >> an adviser to the popular program ?The Cosby Show,? says corporal
> > >> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> > >> black community.
> > >>
> > >> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> > >> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> > >> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> > >> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> > >> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> > >>
> > >> ?There?s an overuse of beating kids,? he said, breaking a major taboo
> > >> among black leadership by raising this issue. ?So that you have 80
> > >> percent of black parents believing you should beat them?beat the devil
> > >> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> > >> get.?
> > >>
> > >> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> > >> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice?s Bureau of
> > >> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> > >> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> > >>
> > >> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> > >> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> > >> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> > >> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> > >> ten times the white rate.
> > >>
> > >> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> > >> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> > >> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> > >> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> > >> responsibility and cultural standards.
> > >>
> > >> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint?s
> > >> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn?t make sense is
> > >> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> > >> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> > >>
> > >> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> > >> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> > to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> > contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> Way to go Doan!
>
> Watch him try DENIAL, attack the sources, anything
> to try to weasel out of acceptance!

Well, I certainly am not going to attack the source, since they prove my
point. And they are respected researchers.

What I pointed out was that monkeyboy drew conclusions not present in
the report. They used very circumspect language and I asked him why they
did. Instead of answering honestly, he simply pointed to another
statement that did NOT apply.

He has been doing this for years. He thinks it's clever, but he knows,
as I do, only those with the limited comprehension that you have will
fall for it.

> He's like a CATHARTIC kid with oppositional defiant
> disorder who just can't understand WHY you had the
> nerve to SPANK him.

You are describing Dancing, Screeching, Hysterical Lying Monkeyboy to a
tee.

I simply have more colorful language to describe his behavior.

He posted a study that clearly states that it's finding are NOT
conclusive and causally precise. That is why they say, "may be" related.

One has to read research reports with an eye to just that kind of wording.

It is a useful report.

The even MORE recent report of an international study on various
societies came to a somewhat different conclusion. LaVonne posted it, as
I recall, and I've commented on it, and Doan dodged out of it with
precisely what you accuse ME of.

It showed that despite the acceptance of a society for high levels of
severe CP the outcomes where NOT what other researchers have claimed to
have found.

You recall that exchange, do you not?

If not, look it up.

Here is the article referencing the study:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051114110820.htm

"Source: Society for Research in Child Development
Date: November 14, 2005
Post to:
del.icio.us, Digg, Furl,
Netscape, Newsvine,
reddit, Yahoo! MyWeb
Spanking Leads To Child Aggression And Anxiety, Regardless Of Cultural Norm

No matter what the cultural norm, children who are physically
disciplined with spanking and other such approaches are more likely to
be anxious and aggressive than children who are disciplined in other
ways. This finding, published in the November/December journal Child
Development, comes from surveys of parents and children in six different
countries. "

[[[ I'd say six countries is a fairly large sample, demographically,
wouldn't you, Greegor?

By the way, are you a masochist? ]]]

"To find out if the latter theory was valid, researchers from Duke
University in North Carolina, Chinese University of Hong Kong, Göteborg
University in Sweden, the University of Naples, the University of Rome
and the Istituto Universitario di Scienze Motorie in Italy, Chiang Mai
University in Thailand, the University of Delhi in India, the University
of Oregon and California State University-Long Beach questioned 336
mothers and their children in China, India, Italy, Kenya, the
Philippines, and Thailand about cultural norms surrounding the use of
physical discipline and how it affects children's aggression and anxiety."

[[[ So would you pretend to claim (I do so LOVE that bit, thanks) that
all these researchers were simply anti-spanking zealots? ]]]

" Summarized from Child Development, Vol. 76, Issue 6, Physical
Discipline and Children's Adjustment: Cultural Normativeness as a
Moderator by Lansford JE. Dodge KA Malone PS and Quinn N. (Duke
University), Chang L (Chinese University of Hong Kong), Oburu P and
Palmérus K (Göteborg University), Bacchini D (University of Naples),
Pastorelli C and Bombi AS (Rome University), Zelli A (Istituto
Universitario di Scienze Motorie), Tapanya S(Chiang Mai University),
Chaudhary N (University of Delhi), Deater-Deckard K (University of
Oregon), and Manke B (California State University, Long Beach).
Copyright 2005 The Society for Research in Child Development, Inc. All
rights reserved."

The research study abstract is at, and reads:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=16274437&dopt=Abstract

1: Child Dev. 2005 Nov-Dec;76(6):1234-46. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Physical discipline and children's adjustment: cultural
normativeness as a moderator.

Lansford JE, Chang L, Dodge KA, Malone PS, Oburu P, Palmerus K,
Bacchini D, Pastorelli C, Bombi AS, Zelli A, Tapanya S, Chaudhary N,
Deater-Deckard K, Manke B, Quinn N.

Center for Child and Family Policy, Duke University, Durham, NC
27708-0545, USA.

Interviews were conducted with 336 mother-child dyads (children's
ages ranged from 6 to 17 years; mothers' ages ranged from 20 to 59
years) in China, India, Italy, Kenya, the Philippines, and Thailand to
examine whether normativeness of physical discipline moderates the link
between mothers' use of physical discipline and children's adjustment.
Multilevel regression analyses revealed that physical discipline was
less strongly associated with adverse child outcomes in conditions of
greater perceived normativeness, but physical discipline was also
associated with more adverse outcomes regardless of its perceived
normativeness. Countries with the lowest use of physical discipline
showed the strongest association between mothers' use and children's
behavior problems, but in all countries higher use of physical
discipline was associated with more aggression and anxiety.

PMID: 16274437 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

One may obtain the full text of the study report at:

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-8624.2005.00847.x

and;

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bpl/cdev/2005/00000076/00000006/art00008;jsessionid=qg63q5j986ml.alice

I believe there is a fee involved.

You might wish to search further for more information. I found this
interesting:

http://www.aseba.org/research/discipline.htm
" In other words, children who viewed parents in their culture as using
the most physical discipline also rated themselves as most aggressive.
As with many associations between parent and child characteristics, the
relations between mothers' use of physical discipline and children's
problems are complex and vary with the cultural context. However, across
six very different cultures, children whose mothers reported the most
physical discipline rated their children highest on the CBCL Aggressive
Behavior and Anxious/Depressed syndromes. Equally important, children
who reported the highest levels of physical discipline by parents in
their culture rated themselves highest on the YSR Aggressive Behavior
syndrome.

Reference:
Landsford, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Malone, P.S., Bacchini, D., Zelli, A.,
Chaudhary, N. et al. (2005). Physical discipline and children's
adjustment: Cultural normativeness as a moderator. Child Development,
76, 1234-1246. "

Care to comment on how Doan "spanked" me, Greg? And who might be in denial?

0:->






>
>
> Doan wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>
>>> Doan wrote:
>>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
>>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
>>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
>>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
>>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
>>>> agression in the Black community.
>>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>>>
>> Hihihi! Here is a more recent study:
>>
>> More study on the benefit of spanking on Black community.
>> "Regression slopes showed that the experience of physical discipline
>> at each time point was related to higher level of externalizing behaviors
>> for European American adlolescents but lower level of externalizing
>> behaviors for African American adolescents."
>>
>> Sources:
>> Ethnic differences in the link between physical discipline and later
>> adolescent externalizing behaviors, Jennifer E. Lansford, Kirby
>> Deater-Deckard, Kenneth A. Dodge, John E. Bates, and Gregory S. Pettit
>> Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).
>>
>>>> References:
>>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
>>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
>>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
>>>> 32, 1065-1072.
>>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
>>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
>>> abstract. Tsk.
>>>
>>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
>>>
>>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
>>> provided the link:
>>>
>> Hihihi! The "never-spanked" boy tried his "formidable research skill"
>> again.
>>
>>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
>>>
>>> "1996
>>>
>>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
>>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
>>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
>>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>>>
>>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
>>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
>>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
>>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
>>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
>>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
>>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
>>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
>>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
>>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
>>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
>>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
>>>
>>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
>>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
>>>
>> Which part of "but only among European American children" don't you
>> understand?
>>
>>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
>>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
>>>
>> Hihihi! Do you even understand what you are saying? Why don't you ask
>> your master LaVonne for a lesson in research methodology? STOP making
>> a fool of yourself, STUPID!
>>
>>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
>>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
>>> Am families to the count of 466.
>>>
>> Hihihi! What a fool!
>>
>>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
>>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
>>>
>> That you describing yourself! ;-)
>>
>>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
>>>
>> Hihihi! Which part of "but only among European American children" don't
>> you understand?
>>
>>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
>>>
>> Hihihi! Back to adhom again. How predictable you are!
>>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
>>>
>> I'll do better than that. I'll even provide the original source:
>>
>> http://content.apa.org/journals/dev/32/6/1065
>>
>>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
>>> again.
>>>
>> Hihihi! Which par of "but only among European American children" don't
>> you understand, "never-spanked" boy?
>>
>>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
>>>
>> Hahaha! That's a laugh! So you don't even have a research to back it up.
>>
>>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
>>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
>>>
>> Yup! "Opininion" is like an asshole; everybody got one! ;-)
>>
>>> Neither of the words related to research.
>>>
>> Hihihi! So you want provide "opinion" instead of facts!
>>
>>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
>>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
>>>
>> Look it up with your "formidable research skill"! ;-)
>>
>>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
>>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
>>>
>> Hihihi!
>>
>>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
>>>
>> Facts.
>>
>>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
>>>
>> vs. opinion.
>>
>>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
>>> cited.
>>>
>> Hahaha! Do you even read what you wrote?
>>
>>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
>>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
>>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
>>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
>>>
>> What research has he authored?
>>
>>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
>>>
>> Appealing to Authority. A logical flaw! ;-)
>>
>>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
>>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
>>> making:
>>>
>> Opinion vs. facts! QED!
>>
>> Doan
>>
>>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
>>>
>>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
>>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
>>>
>>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
>>> Christian churches included.
>>>
>>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
>>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
>>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
>>>
>>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
>>> control a child. None.
>>>
>>> And these Black leaders know it too.
>>>
>>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
>>>
>>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
>>>
>>> 0:->
>>>
>>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
>>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
>>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Doan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ... spanking, of course.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>>>>
>>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>>>>> Corporal Punishment?s Hidden Costs
>>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>>>>
>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>
>>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>>>>> separate incidents in the city?s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>>>>> Chicago?s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>>>>
>>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>>>>> violence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment?the infliction of
>>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>>>>> controlling behavior?as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>>>>> punishment of children.
>>>>>
>>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>>>>> ?counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.?
>>>>>
>>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>>>>
>>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>>>>> corporal punishment.
>>>>>
>>>>> His major argument is simple: ?the use of corporal punishment teaches
>>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.? Poussaint, who was
>>>>> an adviser to the popular program ?The Cosby Show,? says corporal
>>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>>>>> black community.
>>>>>
>>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>>>>
>>>>> ?There?s an overuse of beating kids,? he said, breaking a major taboo
>>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. ?So that you have 80
>>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them?beat the devil
>>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>>>>> get.?
>>>>>
>>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice?s Bureau of
>>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>>>>> ten times the white rate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint?s
>>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn?t make sense is
>>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>>>>
>>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>>
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Doan]

It's obvious! Is anyone on this newsgroup actually believe him? I doubt
it.

Doan


On 19 Sep 2006, Greegor wrote:

> Way to go Doan!
>
> Watch him try DENIAL, attack the sources, anything
> to try to weasel out of acceptance!
>
> He's like a CATHARTIC kid with oppositional defiant
> disorder who just can't understand WHY you had the
> nerve to SPANK him.
>
>
>
> Doan wrote:
> > On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> > > Doan wrote:
> > > > Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> > > > the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> > > > that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> > > > lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> > > > been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> > > > agression in the Black community.
> > >
> > > Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
> > >
> > Hihihi! Here is a more recent study:
> >
> > More study on the benefit of spanking on Black community.
> > "Regression slopes showed that the experience of physical discipline
> > at each time point was related to higher level of externalizing behaviors
> > for European American adlolescents but lower level of externalizing
> > behaviors for African American adolescents."
> >
> > Sources:
> > Ethnic differences in the link between physical discipline and later
> > adolescent externalizing behaviors, Jennifer E. Lansford, Kirby
> > Deater-Deckard, Kenneth A. Dodge, John E. Bates, and Gregory S. Pettit
> > Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).
> >
> > > >
> > > > References:
> > > > Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> > > > Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> > > > Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> > > > 32, 1065-1072.
> > >
> > > R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
> > > other significant portions of their research report...not even an
> > > abstract. Tsk.
> > >
> > > Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
> > >
> > > Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
> > > provided the link:
> > >
> > Hihihi! The "never-spanked" boy tried his "formidable research skill"
> > again.
> >
> > > http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
> > >
> > > "1996
> > >
> > > * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
> > > (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> > > mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> > > Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
> > >
> > > The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
> > > physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
> > > status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
> > > children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
> > > kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
> > > discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
> > > peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
> > > between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
> > > peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
> > > higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> > > These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> > > punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
> > >
> > > Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
> > > to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
> > >
> > Which part of "but only among European American children" don't you
> > understand?
> >
> > > You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
> > > study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
> > >
> > Hihihi! Do you even understand what you are saying? Why don't you ask
> > your master LaVonne for a lesson in research methodology? STOP making
> > a fool of yourself, STUPID!
> >
> > > We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
> > > socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
> > > Am families to the count of 466.
> > >
> > Hihihi! What a fool!
> >
> > > They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
> > > exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
> > >
> > That you describing yourself! ;-)
> >
> > > You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
> > >
> > Hihihi! Which part of "but only among European American children" don't
> > you understand?
> >
> > > Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
> > >
> > Hihihi! Back to adhom again. How predictable you are!
> > >
> > > I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
> > >
> > I'll do better than that. I'll even provide the original source:
> >
> > http://content.apa.org/journals/dev/32/6/1065
> >
> > > And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
> > > again.
> > >
> > Hihihi! Which par of "but only among European American children" don't
> > you understand, "never-spanked" boy?
> >
> > > The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
> > >
> > Hahaha! That's a laugh! So you don't even have a research to back it up.
> >
> > > Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
> > > it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
> > >
> > Yup! "Opininion" is like an asshole; everybody got one! ;-)
> >
> > > Neither of the words related to research.
> > >
> > Hihihi! So you want provide "opinion" instead of facts!
> >
> > > As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
> > > see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
> > >
> > Look it up with your "formidable research skill"! ;-)
> >
> > > I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
> > > for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
> > >
> > Hihihi!
> >
> > > I note this is from a 1996 study.
> > >
> > Facts.
> >
> > > I quote an opinion from 2006.
> > >
> > vs. opinion.
> >
> > > He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
> > > cited.
> > >
> > Hahaha! Do you even read what you wrote?
> >
> > > Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
> > > society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
> > > psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
> > > African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
> > >
> > What research has he authored?
> >
> > > I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
> > >
> > Appealing to Authority. A logical flaw! ;-)
> >
> > > Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
> > > agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
> > > making:
> > >
> > Opinion vs. facts! QED!
> >
> > Doan
> >
> > > http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
> > >
> > > The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
> > > obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
> > >
> > > And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
> > > Christian churches included.
> > >
> > > Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
> > > scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
> > > and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
> > >
> > > There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
> > > control a child. None.
> > >
> > > And these Black leaders know it too.
> > >
> > > Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
> > >
> > > Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
> > >
> > > 0:->
> > >
> > > "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
> > > psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
> > > .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Doan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> ... spanking, of course.
> > > >>
> > > >> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> > > >>
> > > >> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> > > >> Corporal Punishment?s Hidden Costs
> > > >> By Salim Muwakkil
> > > >>
> > > >> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> > > >> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> > > >> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> > > >>
> > > >> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> > > >> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> > > >> separate incidents in the city?s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> > > >> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> > > >> Chicago?s inner-city neighborhoods.
> > > >>
> > > >> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> > > >> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> > > >> violence.
> > > >>
> > > >> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> > > >> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> > > >>
> > > >> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> > > >> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> > > >> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> > > >>
> > > >> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment?the infliction of
> > > >> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> > > >> controlling behavior?as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> > > >> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> > > >> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> > > >> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> > > >> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> > > >> punishment of children.
> > > >>
> > > >> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> > > >> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> > > >> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> > > >> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> > > >> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> > > >> ?counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.?
> > > >>
> > > >> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> > > >> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> > > >> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> > > >> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> > > >> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> > > >> for a society that called itself civilized.
> > > >>
> > > >> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> > > >> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> > > >> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> > > >> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> > > >> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> > > >> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> > > >> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> > > >> corporal punishment.
> > > >>
> > > >> His major argument is simple: ?the use of corporal punishment teaches
> > > >> children that violence is the way to solve problems.? Poussaint, who was
> > > >> an adviser to the popular program ?The Cosby Show,? says corporal
> > > >> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> > > >> black community.
> > > >>
> > > >> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> > > >> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> > > >> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> > > >> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> > > >> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> > > >>
> > > >> ?There?s an overuse of beating kids,? he said, breaking a major taboo
> > > >> among black leadership by raising this issue. ?So that you have 80
> > > >> percent of black parents believing you should beat them?beat the devil
> > > >> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> > > >> get.?
> > > >>
> > > >> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> > > >> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice?s Bureau of
> > > >> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> > > >> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> > > >>
> > > >> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> > > >> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> > > >> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> > > >> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> > > >> ten times the white rate.
> > > >>
> > > >> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> > > >> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> > > >> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> > > >> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> > > >> responsibility and cultural standards.
> > > >>
> > > >> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint?s
> > > >> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn?t make sense is
> > > >> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> > > >> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> > > >>
> > > >> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> > > >> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> > > to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> > > contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> > >
>
>

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
>
> It's obvious!

What "it's" are you claiming?

> Is anyone on this newsgroup actually believe him?

They don't have to "believe," they only have to read and comprehend.

> I doubt
> it.

Well of course -- the never ending dilemma of the self deluding.

You will believe what you want to believe, facts be damned.

What is 'obvious' is that the research report you cite says "may be" not
"conclusively."

Yet you are unable to respond to the International study LaVonne posted
a reference to, and I have again, and again, and again, that finds in
fact from a MUCH larger and more (six times more) diverse demographic
sample something to the contrary...that the more CP and the more severe
CP the more likelihood of negative outcomes. This sample also includes
black Africans. Though I don't hold with racial components being more
important than ethnicities or societies that differ. "Culture is the
Culprit" is a favorite saying of my old Anthro prof. You'd be surprised
to know who he or she was. I was in university in both the late 60's and
late 80's into the 90's. Guess where.

What is also obvious, is that outside of the dim and nearly lifeless
poster or three no one is responding to your question.

That would suggest either or both of the following to be true: they know
I'm right; also they know it is pointless to argue it with someone so
dishonorable and lying in your argument methods as you are.

When you have lost you become more and more erratic and more and more
likely to point away from the facts of the issue, sometimes even the
issue itself, and not just divert, but divert with conclusions that do
not follow the evidence provided by you, or even by your opponent.

You are one strange duck.

0:->

>
> Doan
>
>
> On 19 Sep 2006, Greegor wrote:
>
>> Way to go Doan!
>>
>> Watch him try DENIAL, attack the sources, anything
>> to try to weasel out of acceptance!
>>
>> He's like a CATHARTIC kid with oppositional defiant
>> disorder who just can't understand WHY you had the
>> nerve to SPANK him.
>>
>>
>>
>> Doan wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doan wrote:
>>>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
>>>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
>>>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
>>>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
>>>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
>>>>> agression in the Black community.
>>>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>>>>
>>> Hihihi! Here is a more recent study:
>>>
>>> More study on the benefit of spanking on Black community.
>>> "Regression slopes showed that the experience of physical discipline
>>> at each time point was related to higher level of externalizing behaviors
>>> for European American adlolescents but lower level of externalizing
>>> behaviors for African American adolescents."
>>>
>>> Sources:
>>> Ethnic differences in the link between physical discipline and later
>>> adolescent externalizing behaviors, Jennifer E. Lansford, Kirby
>>> Deater-Deckard, Kenneth A. Dodge, John E. Bates, and Gregory S. Pettit
>>> Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).
>>>
>>>>> References:
>>>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
>>>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
>>>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
>>>>> 32, 1065-1072.
>>>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
>>>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
>>>> abstract. Tsk.
>>>>
>>>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
>>>>
>>>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
>>>> provided the link:
>>>>
>>> Hihihi! The "never-spanked" boy tried his "formidable research skill"
>>> again.
>>>
>>>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
>>>>
>>>> "1996
>>>>
>>>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
>>>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
>>>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
>>>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>>>>
>>>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
>>>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
>>>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
>>>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
>>>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
>>>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
>>>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
>>>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
>>>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
>>>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
>>>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
>>>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
>>>>
>>>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
>>>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
>>>>
>>> Which part of "but only among European American children" don't you
>>> understand?
>>>
>>>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
>>>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
>>>>
>>> Hihihi! Do you even understand what you are saying? Why don't you ask
>>> your master LaVonne for a lesson in research methodology? STOP making
>>> a fool of yourself, STUPID!
>>>
>>>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
>>>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
>>>> Am families to the count of 466.
>>>>
>>> Hihihi! What a fool!
>>>
>>>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
>>>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
>>>>
>>> That you describing yourself! ;-)
>>>
>>>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
>>>>
>>> Hihihi! Which part of "but only among European American children" don't
>>> you understand?
>>>
>>>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
>>>>
>>> Hihihi! Back to adhom again. How predictable you are!
>>>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
>>>>
>>> I'll do better than that. I'll even provide the original source:
>>>
>>> http://content.apa.org/journals/dev/32/6/1065
>>>
>>>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
>>>> again.
>>>>
>>> Hihihi! Which par of "but only among European American children" don't
>>> you understand, "never-spanked" boy?
>>>
>>>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
>>>>
>>> Hahaha! That's a laugh! So you don't even have a research to back it up.
>>>
>>>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
>>>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
>>>>
>>> Yup! "Opininion" is like an asshole; everybody got one! ;-)
>>>
>>>> Neither of the words related to research.
>>>>
>>> Hihihi! So you want provide "opinion" instead of facts!
>>>
>>>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
>>>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
>>>>
>>> Look it up with your "formidable research skill"! ;-)
>>>
>>>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
>>>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
>>>>
>>> Hihihi!
>>>
>>>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
>>>>
>>> Facts.
>>>
>>>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
>>>>
>>> vs. opinion.
>>>
>>>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
>>>> cited.
>>>>
>>> Hahaha! Do you even read what you wrote?
>>>
>>>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
>>>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
>>>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
>>>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
>>>>
>>> What research has he authored?
>>>
>>>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
>>>>
>>> Appealing to Authority. A logical flaw! ;-)
>>>
>>>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
>>>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
>>>> making:
>>>>
>>> Opinion vs. facts! QED!
>>>
>>> Doan
>>>
>>>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
>>>>
>>>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
>>>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
>>>>
>>>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
>>>> Christian churches included.
>>>>
>>>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
>>>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
>>>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
>>>>
>>>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
>>>> control a child. None.
>>>>
>>>> And these Black leaders know it too.
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
>>>>
>>>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
>>>>
>>>> 0:->
>>>>
>>>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
>>>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
>>>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Doan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ... spanking, of course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>>>>>> Corporal Punishment?s Hidden Costs
>>>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>>>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>>>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>>>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>>>>>> separate incidents in the city?s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>>>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>>>>>> Chicago?s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>>>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>>>>>> violence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>>>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>>>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>>>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment?the infliction of
>>>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>>>>>> controlling behavior?as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>>>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>>>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>>>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>>>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>>>>>> punishment of children.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>>>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>>>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>>>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>>>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>>>>>> ?counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>>>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>>>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>>>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>>>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>>>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>>>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>>>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>>>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>>>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>>>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>>>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>>>>>> corporal punishment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His major argument is simple: ?the use of corporal punishment teaches
>>>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.? Poussaint, who was
>>>>>> an adviser to the popular program ?The Cosby Show,? says corporal
>>>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>>>>>> black community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>>>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>>>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>>>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>>>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?There?s an overuse of beating kids,? he said, breaking a major taboo
>>>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. ?So that you have 80
>>>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them?beat the devil
>>>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>>>>>> get.?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>>>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice?s Bureau of
>>>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>>>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>>>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>>>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>>>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>>>>>> ten times the white rate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>>>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>>>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>>>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>>>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint?s
>>>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn?t make sense is
>>>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>>>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>>>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>>>
>>
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Greegor]

Kane wrote
> When you have lost you become more and more erratic and more and more
> likely to point away from the facts of the issue, sometimes even the
> issue itself, and not just divert, but divert with conclusions that do
> not follow the evidence provided by you, or even by your opponent.

That summarizes how CPS agencies operate.

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> Kane wrote
> > When you have lost you become more and more erratic and more and more
> > likely to point away from the facts of the issue, sometimes even the
> > issue itself, and not just divert, but divert with conclusions that do
> > not follow the evidence provided by you, or even by your opponent.
>
> That summarizes how CPS agencies operate.

Your admission and confession are duly noted. <chuckle>

[Doan]

On 19 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:

>
> Greegor wrote:
> > Kane wrote
> > > When you have lost you become more and more erratic and more and more
> > > likely to point away from the facts of the issue, sometimes even the
> > > issue itself, and not just divert, but divert with conclusions that do
> > > not follow the evidence provided by you, or even by your opponent.
> >
> > That summarizes how CPS agencies operate.
>
> Your admission and confession are duly noted. <chuckle>
>
Your lies are duly notes. <grin>

AF

[Doan]

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> >
> > It's obvious!
>
> What "it's" are you claiming?
>
Your lies! ;-)

> > Is anyone on this newsgroup actually believe him?
>
> They don't have to "believe," they only have to read and comprehend.
>
Hihihi! Yup! Anyone here read and agree with Kane?

> > I doubt
> > it.
>
> Well of course -- the never ending dilemma of the self deluding.
>
That would be yours! ;-)

> You will believe what you want to believe, facts be damned.
>
That's you!

> What is 'obvious' is that the research report you cite says "may be" not
> "conclusively."
>
Hahaha! Find me one that is conclusive, Kane. Are you always this
STUPID?

> Yet you are unable to respond to the International study LaVonne posted
> a reference to, and I have again, and again, and again, that finds in
> fact from a MUCH larger and more (six times more) diverse demographic
> sample something to the contrary...that the more CP and the more severe
> CP the more likelihood of negative outcomes. This sample also includes
> black Africans. Though I don't hold with racial components being more
> important than ethnicities or societies that differ. "Culture is the
> Culprit" is a favorite saying of my old Anthro prof. You'd be surprised
> to know who he or she was. I was in university in both the late 60's and
> late 80's into the 90's. Guess where.
>
More lies!

> What is also obvious, is that outside of the dim and nearly lifeless
> poster or three no one is responding to your question.
>
But you are! Hihihi!

> That would suggest either or both of the following to be true: they know
> I'm right; also they know it is pointless to argue it with someone so
> dishonorable and lying in your argument methods as you are.
>
Hahaha! Who here think that Kane is right? Please speak up!

> When you have lost you become more and more erratic and more and more
> likely to point away from the facts of the issue, sometimes even the
> issue itself, and not just divert, but divert with conclusions that do
> not follow the evidence provided by you, or even by your opponent.
>
Hihihi! An you are just STUPID!

> You are one strange duck.
>
And you are just one plain STUPID LIAR! ;-)

AF

> 0:->
>
> >
> > Doan
> >
> >
> > On 19 Sep 2006, Greegor wrote:
> >
> >> Way to go Doan!
> >>
> >> Watch him try DENIAL, attack the sources, anything
> >> to try to weasel out of acceptance!
> >>
> >> He's like a CATHARTIC kid with oppositional defiant
> >> disorder who just can't understand WHY you had the
> >> nerve to SPANK him.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Doan wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Doan wrote:
> >>>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> >>>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> >>>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> >>>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> >>>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> >>>>> agression in the Black community.
> >>>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
> >>>>
> >>> Hihihi! Here is a more recent study:
> >>>
> >>> More study on the benefit of spanking on Black community.
> >>> "Regression slopes showed that the experience of physical discipline
> >>> at each time point was related to higher level of externalizing behaviors
> >>> for European American adlolescents but lower level of externalizing
> >>> behaviors for African American adolescents."
> >>>
> >>> Sources:
> >>> Ethnic differences in the link between physical discipline and later
> >>> adolescent externalizing behaviors, Jennifer E. Lansford, Kirby
> >>> Deater-Deckard, Kenneth A. Dodge, John E. Bates, and Gregory S. Pettit
> >>> Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).
> >>>
> >>>>> References:
> >>>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> >>>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> >>>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> >>>>> 32, 1065-1072.
> >>>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
> >>>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
> >>>> abstract. Tsk.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
> >>>>
> >>>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
> >>>> provided the link:
> >>>>
> >>> Hihihi! The "never-spanked" boy tried his "formidable research skill"
> >>> again.
> >>>
> >>>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
> >>>>
> >>>> "1996
> >>>>
> >>>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
> >>>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> >>>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> >>>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
> >>>>
> >>>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
> >>>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
> >>>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
> >>>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
> >>>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
> >>>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
> >>>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
> >>>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
> >>>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
> >>>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> >>>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> >>>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
> >>>>
> >>>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
> >>>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
> >>>>
> >>> Which part of "but only among European American children" don't you
> >>> understand?
> >>>
> >>>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
> >>>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
> >>>>
> >>> Hihihi! Do you even understand what you are saying? Why don't you ask
> >>> your master LaVonne for a lesson in research methodology? STOP making
> >>> a fool of yourself, STUPID!
> >>>
> >>>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
> >>>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
> >>>> Am families to the count of 466.
> >>>>
> >>> Hihihi! What a fool!
> >>>
> >>>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
> >>>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
> >>>>
> >>> That you describing yourself! ;-)
> >>>
> >>>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
> >>>>
> >>> Hihihi! Which part of "but only among European American children" don't
> >>> you understand?
> >>>
> >>>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
> >>>>
> >>> Hihihi! Back to adhom again. How predictable you are!
> >>>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
> >>>>
> >>> I'll do better than that. I'll even provide the original source:
> >>>
> >>> http://content.apa.org/journals/dev/32/6/1065
> >>>
> >>>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
> >>>> again.
> >>>>
> >>> Hihihi! Which par of "but only among European American children" don't
> >>> you understand, "never-spanked" boy?
> >>>
> >>>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
> >>>>
> >>> Hahaha! That's a laugh! So you don't even have a research to back it up.
> >>>
> >>>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
> >>>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
> >>>>
> >>> Yup! "Opininion" is like an asshole; everybody got one! ;-)
> >>>
> >>>> Neither of the words related to research.
> >>>>
> >>> Hihihi! So you want provide "opinion" instead of facts!
> >>>
> >>>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
> >>>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
> >>>>
> >>> Look it up with your "formidable research skill"! ;-)
> >>>
> >>>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
> >>>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
> >>>>
> >>> Hihihi!
> >>>
> >>>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
> >>>>
> >>> Facts.
> >>>
> >>>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
> >>>>
> >>> vs. opinion.
> >>>
> >>>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
> >>>> cited.
> >>>>
> >>> Hahaha! Do you even read what you wrote?
> >>>
> >>>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
> >>>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
> >>>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
> >>>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
> >>>>
> >>> What research has he authored?
> >>>
> >>>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
> >>>>
> >>> Appealing to Authority. A logical flaw! ;-)
> >>>
> >>>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
> >>>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
> >>>> making:
> >>>>
> >>> Opinion vs. facts! QED!
> >>>
> >>> Doan
> >>>
> >>>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
> >>>>
> >>>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
> >>>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
> >>>>
> >>>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
> >>>> Christian churches included.
> >>>>
> >>>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
> >>>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
> >>>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
> >>>> control a child. None.
> >>>>
> >>>> And these Black leaders know it too.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
> >>>>
> >>>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
> >>>>
> >>>> 0:->
> >>>>
> >>>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
> >>>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
> >>>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Doan
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ... spanking, of course.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> >>>>>> Corporal Punishment?s Hidden Costs
> >>>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> >>>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> >>>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> >>>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> >>>>>> separate incidents in the city?s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> >>>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> >>>>>> Chicago?s inner-city neighborhoods.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> >>>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> >>>>>> violence.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> >>>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> >>>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> >>>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment?the infliction of
> >>>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> >>>>>> controlling behavior?as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> >>>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> >>>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> >>>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> >>>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> >>>>>> punishment of children.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> >>>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> >>>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> >>>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> >>>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> >>>>>> ?counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> >>>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> >>>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> >>>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> >>>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> >>>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> >>>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> >>>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> >>>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> >>>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> >>>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> >>>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> >>>>>> corporal punishment.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> His major argument is simple: ?the use of corporal punishment teaches
> >>>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.? Poussaint, who was
> >>>>>> an adviser to the popular program ?The Cosby Show,? says corporal
> >>>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> >>>>>> black community.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> >>>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> >>>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> >>>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> >>>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ?There?s an overuse of beating kids,? he said, breaking a major taboo
> >>>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. ?So that you have 80
> >>>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them?beat the devil
> >>>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> >>>>>> get.?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> >>>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice?s Bureau of
> >>>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> >>>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> >>>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> >>>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> >>>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> >>>>>> ten times the white rate.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> >>>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> >>>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> >>>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> >>>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint?s
> >>>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn?t make sense is
> >>>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> >>>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> >>>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >>>>
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> Doan wrote:
>>> It's obvious!
>> What "it's" are you claiming?
>>
> Your lies! ;-)

Non sequitur

>>> Is anyone on this newsgroup actually believe him?
>> They don't have to "believe," they only have to read and comprehend.
>>
> Hihihi! Yup! Anyone here read and agree with Kane?

Why must they agree with me, or not?

I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Perfectly honest, intelligent,
rational, and did I mention honest people, disagree with me, and they
can read.

Disagreeing isn't lying. Deliberate attempts to mislead, DOAN, are what
constitute lying.

>>> I doubt
>>> it.
>> Well of course -- the never ending dilemma of the self deluding.
>>
> That would be yours! ;-)

What's this, a "so's your Mother." ploy, yet again?

>
>> You will believe what you want to believe, facts be damned.
>>
> That's you!

What's this, a "so's your Mother." ploy, yet again?

>> What is 'obvious' is that the research report you cite says "may be" not
>> "conclusively."
>>
> Hahaha! Find me one that is conclusive, Kane. Are you always this
> STUPID?

Ah, then you admit there is NO final answer to this question, as YOU
would like people to believe.

Thanks.

And no, I'm not stupid. YOU just walked into it though, stupid.

>> Yet you are unable to respond to the International study LaVonne posted
>> a reference to, and I have again, and again, and again, that finds in
>> fact from a MUCH larger and more (six times more) diverse demographic
>> sample something to the contrary...that the more CP and the more severe
>> CP the more likelihood of negative outcomes. This sample also includes
>> black Africans. Though I don't hold with racial components being more
>> important than ethnicities or societies that differ. "Culture is the
>> Culprit" is a favorite saying of my old Anthro prof. You'd be surprised
>> to know who he or she was. I was in university in both the late 60's and
>> late 80's into the 90's. Guess where.
>>
> More lies!

Hope. Not a single thing, including your inability to respond with any
kind of intelligent rebuttal to the international study stands as
fact...not lies or a lie.

That means YOU are lying, and attempting to mislead the reader, or you
are deluding yourself...a self directed lie.

>> What is also obvious, is that outside of the dim and nearly lifeless
>> poster or three no one is responding to your question.
>>
> But you are! Hihihi!

Nope. I'm not claim to have read and agree with myself. That would be
stupid. Obviously you are to think I have to do that.

>> That would suggest either or both of the following to be true: they know
>> I'm right; also they know it is pointless to argue it with someone so
>> dishonorable and lying in your argument methods as you are.
>>
> Hahaha! Who here think that Kane is right? Please speak up!

See what I mean. YOU didn't ask me. I'm not "anyone here" as I am the
subject of your question.

>> When you have lost you become more and more erratic and more and more
>> likely to point away from the facts of the issue, sometimes even the
>> issue itself, and not just divert, but divert with conclusions that do
>> not follow the evidence provided by you, or even by your opponent.
>>
> Hihihi! An you are just STUPID!

Nope. Do you really think anyone can't see how stupid you are?

>> You are one strange duck.
>>
> And you are just one plain STUPID LIAR! ;-)

I am a liar. Everyone is a liar. But I am not stupid.

I lie about certain specific and morally and ethically acceptable
things, just as other people do, and in my case for self and family
protection. Outside of that there is no motive for me to lie, nor do I
in this argument.

Claim you never lie. I want to see you lie again.

> AF

0:->


>
>> 0:->
>>
>>> Doan
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 Sep 2006, Greegor wrote:
>>>
>>>> Way to go Doan!
>>>>
>>>> Watch him try DENIAL, attack the sources, anything
>>>> to try to weasel out of acceptance!
>>>>
>>>> He's like a CATHARTIC kid with oppositional defiant
>>>> disorder who just can't understand WHY you had the
>>>> nerve to SPANK him.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Doan wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Doan wrote:
>>>>>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
>>>>>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
>>>>>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
>>>>>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
>>>>>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
>>>>>>> agression in the Black community.
>>>>>> Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hihihi! Here is a more recent study:
>>>>>
>>>>> More study on the benefit of spanking on Black community.
>>>>> "Regression slopes showed that the experience of physical discipline
>>>>> at each time point was related to higher level of externalizing behaviors
>>>>> for European American adlolescents but lower level of externalizing
>>>>> behaviors for African American adolescents."
>>>>>
>>>>> Sources:
>>>>> Ethnic differences in the link between physical discipline and later
>>>>> adolescent externalizing behaviors, Jennifer E. Lansford, Kirby
>>>>> Deater-Deckard, Kenneth A. Dodge, John E. Bates, and Gregory S. Pettit
>>>>> Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry (2004).
>>>>>
>>>>>>> References:
>>>>>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
>>>>>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
>>>>>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
>>>>>>> 32, 1065-1072.
>>>>>> R R R ....I notice you included NOTHING of their actual conclusions or
>>>>>> other significant portions of their research report...not even an
>>>>>> abstract. Tsk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's see what it actually says, in the abstract, shall we eh?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unlike you, who appear to be trying to conceal, as in LIE, I've even
>>>>>> provided the link:
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hihihi! The "never-spanked" boy tried his "formidable research skill"
>>>>> again.
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.indiana.edu/~batessdl/cdp_abstracts.html#961
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "1996
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S.
>>>>>> (1996). Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
>>>>>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
>>>>>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between
>>>>>> physical discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group
>>>>>> status. A sample of 466 European American and 100 African American
>>>>>> children from a broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from
>>>>>> kindergarten through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical
>>>>>> discipline in interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and
>>>>>> peers rated children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction
>>>>>> between ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and
>>>>>> peer-rated externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with
>>>>>> higher externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
>>>>>> These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
>>>>>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, Doan, The Monkeyboy, if they were as sure of YOUR claim as you seem
>>>>>> to be, why did they use the term, "may be" as in culturally specific?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Which part of "but only among European American children" don't you
>>>>> understand?
>>>>>
>>>>>> You will notice, <chuckle> this was NOT an observational longitudinal
>>>>>> study, but a series of INTERVIEWS. The answered were scored.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hihihi! Do you even understand what you are saying? Why don't you ask
>>>>> your master LaVonne for a lesson in research methodology? STOP making
>>>>> a fool of yourself, STUPID!
>>>>>
>>>>>> We can guess pretty well, given other studies of theirs, what that
>>>>>> socioeconomic levels were in the 100 AA families as compared to the Euro
>>>>>> Am families to the count of 466.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hihihi! What a fool!
>>>>>
>>>>>> They didn't lie, but YOU most certainly did, or more likely are just
>>>>>> exhibiting your continuing stupidity and determined ignorance.
>>>>>>
>>>>> That you describing yourself! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>> You draw conclusions that to not follow from the source provided.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hihihi! Which part of "but only among European American children" don't
>>>>> you understand?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Try again, stupid monkeyboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hihihi! Back to adhom again. How predictable you are!
>>>>>> I provided a link. I expect you to meet the same level of response.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'll do better than that. I'll even provide the original source:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://content.apa.org/journals/dev/32/6/1065
>>>>>
>>>>>> And you seem to be falling behind in your english comprehension classes
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hihihi! Which par of "but only among European American children" don't
>>>>> you understand, "never-spanked" boy?
>>>>>
>>>>>> The title of this article I provided isn't "research shows," it's, "Views"
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hahaha! That's a laugh! So you don't even have a research to back it up.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Native English speakers usually recognize that quickly as "Opinion" and
>>>>>> it was not offered under any other claim than "Argument" from my title.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yup! "Opininion" is like an asshole; everybody got one! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Neither of the words related to research.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hihihi! So you want provide "opinion" instead of facts!
>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the research you cite, but carefully don't link to, I'd like to
>>>>>> see the protocols for research, the methodology, if you will.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Look it up with your "formidable research skill"! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to see what YOU are calling "a lack of spanking." Lots of room
>>>>>> for abuse of the language and logic in that little phrase, monkeyboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hihihi!
>>>>>
>>>>>> I note this is from a 1996 study.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Facts.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I quote an opinion from 2006.
>>>>>>
>>>>> vs. opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>>> He seems to disagree, as Black man, with the findings you have poorly
>>>>>> cited.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hahaha! Do you even read what you wrote?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Many do, some very highly respected in the Black community and the
>>>>>> society at large, such as "Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a professor of
>>>>>> psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written extensively on
>>>>>> African-American issues, has long opposed the use of corporal punishment."
>>>>>>
>>>>> What research has he authored?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I presume he's tenured and a researcher.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Appealing to Authority. A logical flaw! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently he and these other leading Black community members don't
>>>>>> agree with the claim YOU are claiming the study YOU have poorly cited is
>>>>>> making:
>>>>>>
>>>>> Opinion vs. facts! QED!
>>>>>
>>>>> Doan
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/aaLeadsBanCP.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The signed this statement and it's publicly posted, so they are
>>>>>> obviously willing to stand up and be counted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you will see people from many professions and followings such as
>>>>>> Christian churches included.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your cause is corrupt, Doan. Worn out old ignorant superstition, not
>>>>>> scientifically supported, nor is it morally supported, even by those YOU
>>>>>> and a few other sycophants would like to claim spanking is good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no justifiable reason for using corporal punishment to teach or
>>>>>> control a child. None.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And these Black leaders know it too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mr. Muwakkil is expressing a new sentiment that is rapidly taking hold.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read it an weep, little apologist for the compulsives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 0:->
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "No one knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's
>>>>>> psyche. You should avoid using physical force on your child."
>>>>>> .. DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ... spanking, of course.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>>>>>>>> Corporal Punishment?s Hidden Costs
>>>>>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>>>>>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>>>>>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>>>>>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>>>>>>>> separate incidents in the city?s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>>>>>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>>>>>>>> Chicago?s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>>>>>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>>>>>>>> violence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>>>>>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>>>>>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>>>>>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment?the infliction of
>>>>>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>>>>>>>> controlling behavior?as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>>>>>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>>>>>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>>>>>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>>>>>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>>>>>>>> punishment of children.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>>>>>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>>>>>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>>>>>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>>>>>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>>>>>>>> ?counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>>>>>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>>>>>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>>>>>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>>>>>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>>>>>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>>>>>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>>>>>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>>>>>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>>>>>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>>>>>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>>>>>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>>>>>>>> corporal punishment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> His major argument is simple: ?the use of corporal punishment teaches
>>>>>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.? Poussaint, who was
>>>>>>>> an adviser to the popular program ?The Cosby Show,? says corporal
>>>>>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>>>>>>>> black community.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>>>>>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>>>>>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>>>>>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>>>>>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ?There?s an overuse of beating kids,? he said, breaking a major taboo
>>>>>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. ?So that you have 80
>>>>>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them?beat the devil
>>>>>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>>>>>>>> get.?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>>>>>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice?s Bureau of
>>>>>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>>>>>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>>>>>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>>>>>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>>>>>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>>>>>>>> ten times the white rate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>>>>>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>>>>>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>>>>>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>>>>>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint?s
>>>>>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn?t make sense is
>>>>>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>>>>>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>>>>>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>>>>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>>>>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>>>>>
>>
>> --
>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>
>


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Greegor]

Kane wrote
> I am a liar. Everyone is a liar. But I am not stupid.
> I lie about certain specific and morally and ethically acceptable
> things, just as other people do, and in my case for self and family
> protection. Outside of that there is no motive for me to lie, nor do I
> in this argument.
> Claim you never lie. I want to see you lie again.
----------------------------------


Kane wrote
> I lie about certain specific and morally and ethically acceptable things

Your intended ends justify any means, right?

I am greatly amused seeing you bend and twist ethics
to suit your agendas.

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> Kane wrote
>> I am a liar. Everyone is a liar. But I am not stupid.
>> I lie about certain specific and morally and ethically acceptable
>> things, just as other people do, and in my case for self and family
>> protection. Outside of that there is no motive for me to lie, nor do I
>> in this argument.
>> Claim you never lie. I want to see you lie again.
> ----------------------------------
>
>
> Kane wrote
>> I lie about certain specific and morally and ethically acceptable things
>
> Your intended ends justify any means, right?

Oh, absolutely NOT. I would never lie about someone abusing a child, for
instance.

I would misinform, technically a lie, to protect that child if there
were no other way to do so, though. Wouldn't you?

If the child were threatened and the one threatening asked me for the
location of the child, or even if they didn't ask, I would never reveal
that child's location and I'd lie about it if I felt the need.

> I am greatly amused seeing you bend and twist ethics
> to suit your agendas.

You should be. You do it unethically, Greg. Not to protect anyone, but
to go for your goal of suing the people of the state of Iowa.

Are you amused at yourself?

I do not bend and twist ethics to suit my agendas, Greg.

If my agendas can't stand scrutiny as factual then I'll give them up
rather than lie.

You, on the other hand, and a few of your cronies seem to have a real
problem with this moral dilemma, but solve it easily by lying to
yourselves.

Where adequate proofs were provided, from authoritative sources, Greg,
you have never seen me defend CPS where it was wrong, or a worker that
was wrong.

Even in court case YOU have provided, often mistaking the findings for
being general when they were specific, have you seen me defend the LEs
and Workers involved and claim they were right?

But I've seen YOU defend criminals, Greg. Convicted ones.

Without adequate argument, Greg. Just your wild and fanciful imagination
and it's service to YOUR agenda.

0:->

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[Greegor]

Kane wrote
> I am a liar. Everyone is a liar. But I am not stupid.
> I lie about certain specific and morally and ethically acceptable
> things, just as other people do, and in my case for self and family
> protection. Outside of that there is no motive for me to lie, nor do I
> in this argument.
> Claim you never lie. I want to see you lie again.

Kane wrote
> I lie about certain specific and morally and ethically acceptable things

Greg wrote
> Your intended ends justify any means, right?

Kane wrote
> Oh, absolutely NOT. I would never lie about
> someone abusing a child, for instance.
> I would misinform, technically a lie, to protect that child if there
> were no other way to do so, though. Wouldn't you?

EVEN to a Judge or a COURT!

> If the child were threatened and the one threatening asked me for the
> location of the child, or even if they didn't ask, I would never reveal
> that child's location and I'd lie about it if I felt the need.
>
Greg wrote
> I am greatly amused seeing you bend and twist ethics
> to suit your agendas.

Kane wrote
> You should be. You do it unethically, Greg. Not to protect anyone, but
> to go for your goal of suing the people of the state of Iowa.

Um, You think that suing caseworkers for PERJURY is not
to protect anyone? Not even the people of the state?

And isn't that the very REASON for Qui Tam?

My goal is to personally sue the corrupt workers so that they
are bankrupt and living in a barrel, unable to harm any other
families. If their malpractice rates go up, that is GOOD!

Of course, you forget that a Jury of CITIZENS from this
state would be REALLY angry if they heard about the
crap these government workers did!

> Are you amused at yourself?

Constantly!

> I do not bend and twist ethics to suit my agendas, Greg.

OH SURE, I BELIEVE YOU, cause you're such a NICE GUY!

> If my agendas can't stand scrutiny as factual then I'll give them up
> rather than lie.
>
> You, on the other hand, and a few of your cronies seem to have a real
> problem with this moral dilemma, but solve it easily by lying to
> yourselves.

As opposed to caseworker PERJURY in court, no doubt.

> Where adequate proofs were provided, from authoritative sources, Greg,
> you have never seen me defend CPS where it was wrong, or a worker that
> was wrong.

I am a litigant.

> Even in court case YOU have provided, often mistaking the findings for
> being general when they were specific, have you seen me defend the LEs
> and Workers involved and claim they were right?
>
> But I've seen YOU defend criminals, Greg. Convicted ones.

Citations please!

> Without adequate argument, Greg. Just your wild and fanciful imagination
> and it's service to YOUR agenda.

The real crime (in your mind) is that it's not YOUR agenda!

[0:->]

Greegor wrote:
> Kane wrote
>> I am a liar. Everyone is a liar. But I am not stupid.
>> I lie about certain specific and morally and ethically acceptable
>> things, just as other people do, and in my case for self and family
>> protection. Outside of that there is no motive for me to lie, nor do I
>> in this argument.
>> Claim you never lie. I want to see you lie again.
>
> Kane wrote
>> I lie about certain specific and morally and ethically acceptable things
>
> Greg wrote
>> Your intended ends justify any means, right?
>
> Kane wrote
>> Oh, absolutely NOT. I would never lie about
>> someone abusing a child, for instance.
>> I would misinform, technically a lie, to protect that child if there
>> were no other way to do so, though. Wouldn't you?
>
> EVEN to a Judge or a COURT!

Nope. Presuming the judge or court were acting in the child's best
interests. If they were going to place a child with you.....now THAT
would cause me to give deep consideration as to how I might answer.

R R R R R R R

>> If the child were threatened and the one threatening asked me for the
>> location of the child, or even if they didn't ask, I would never reveal
>> that child's location and I'd lie about it if I felt the need.
>>
> Greg wrote
>> I am greatly amused seeing you bend and twist ethics
>> to suit your agendas.
>
> Kane wrote
>> You should be. You do it unethically, Greg. Not to protect anyone, but
>> to go for your goal of suing the people of the state of Iowa.
>
> Um, You think that suing caseworkers for PERJURY is not
> to protect anyone? Not even the people of the state?

Nope. You don't care about "anyone" but Greg, Greg, and you sure as hell
don't care about the people of the state, or the country for that
matter, since you lied into the congressional record about the state of
Iowa's compliance (you claiming non-compliance) with a federal mandate
to support CRBs in districts throughout the state.

You have dodged when I pointed out to you, with linked citations, that
indeed Iowa had MET the mandate based on the criteria the feds set...a
certain number of sites with a funding amount provided.

YOU simply can't read and comprehend so you babbled your bull**** to the
entire country through a federal committee hearing. Brilliant.

>
> And isn't that the very REASON for Qui Tam?
>

Your motives and that of others are guaranteed by you to be identical?

Is that what your lawyer told you he or she was using as a reason to
sue? Damn, now there are two fools in the courtrooms in Iowa.

You don't even know what the term really means do you, stupid? You have
fallen in with, as I pointed out months ago, the nutso anti government
crackpots that love to throw Latin legal terms around but don't really
know what they mean, or they do so to obscure their real intent. AND
THEIR IGNORANCE.

You are a classic anti government wacko, Greg. Your number ONE attribute
being self delusion to the point of being fair prey for the other anti
gov wackos.

You pick up your bull**** from their websites and hanging out with them,
and ignore what they have been exposed doing.

Qui tam is rightly used in CASES OF FINANCIAL FRAUD ON THE PART OF
GOVERNMENT ENTITIES, STUPID.

"qui tam pro domino rege quam pro seipse,” meaning “he who [sues] for
the king as well as for himself."

Which king are you suing for?

How much of the money, if you win.....R R R RR... are you going to turn
over to The King, boy?

And in fact, stupid boy, "litigant" is NOT the correct term for you in a
Qui Tam suit. You would be called the "Relator." And no, it's not about
land and houses.

To successfully pursue to conclusion a Qui tam based suit one must find
a monetary loss to the people by virtue of the "fraud" allegedly
committed by the government agent.

For **** sake, aren't you EVER going to look something up for yourself
before you stick your stupid face out in public?


> My goal is to personally sue the corrupt workers

First you have to prove corruption. What monetary loss has occurred and
incurred by "the people" from the actions you claim they took in your case?

> so that they
> are bankrupt and living in a barrel, unable to harm any other
> families. If their malpractice rates go up, that is GOOD!

Good in what way?

Make it harder to hire better qualified people?

> Of course, you forget that a Jury of CITIZENS from this
> state would be REALLY angry if they heard about the
> crap these government workers did!

I trust the court to allow them to hear everything. 0:->
>
>> Are you amused at yourself?
>
> Constantly!

You should be.

>> I do not bend and twist ethics to suit my agendas, Greg.
>
> OH SURE, I BELIEVE YOU, cause you're such a NICE GUY!

I don't depend on your credulity, Greg. Nor am I campaigning for High
School class president.

>> If my agendas can't stand scrutiny as factual then I'll give them up
>> rather than lie.
>>
>> You, on the other hand, and a few of your cronies seem to have a real
>> problem with this moral dilemma, but solve it easily by lying to
>> yourselves.
>
> As opposed to caseworker PERJURY in court, no doubt.

Have they been so charged by the court? As I recall, unless Iowa has
different laws, perjury is charged by the court, not a "litigant."

>> Where adequate proofs were provided, from authoritative sources, Greg,
>> you have never seen me defend CPS where it was wrong, or a worker that
>> was wrong.
>
> I am a litigant.

Then you aren't involved in a Qui tam suit. You just want to use that
term to pretend you are something you are not....knowledgeable about the
law.

Or is it "hope to pretend?" R R R R R RR R R R

>> Even in court case YOU have provided, often mistaking the findings for
>> being general when they were specific, have you seen me defend the LEs
>> and Workers involved and claim they were right?
>>
>> But I've seen YOU defend criminals, Greg. Convicted ones.
>
> Citations please!

Greg, we had a two year long discussion about the Christines. Do you
wish to review all your posts from that time before we proceed?

>> Without adequate argument, Greg. Just your wild and fanciful imagination
>> and it's service to YOUR agenda.
>
> The real crime (in your mind) is that it's not YOUR agenda!

I didn't mention a "crime." Why did that pop into your head, Greg?

I mentioned "service to your agenda."

I've not seen your argument beyond what you've posted for three years,
up to this time. I do not see anything in your posts that warrant a
charge of perjury, since YOU are not the judge.

Perjury is a form of obstruction of justice such as lying to or hiding
information from investigators. It can also be lying to the court.

"Perjury is among several charges that can be filed for lying during
official proceedings. Others include making false statements to a
government investigator, even when not under oath, and obstruction of
justice, or intentionally interfering with a trial or investigation."

Note this is not a definition of perjury, but simply mentions it with
other charges.

What IS perjury?

"Perjury is the act of lying or making verifiably false statements on a
material matter under oath or affirmation in a court of law or in any of
various sworn statements in writing. Perjury is a crime because the
witness has sworn to tell the truth and, for the credibility of the
court, witness testimony must be relied on as being truthful. Perjury is
considered a very serious crime as it could be used to usurp the power
of the courts, resulting in miscarriages of justice. In the United
States, for example, the general perjury statute under Federal law
provides for a prison sentence of up to five years, and is found at 18
U.S.C. § 1621. See also 28 U.S.C. § 1746."

In other words, unless they are sworn giving testimony it's not perjury.

You claim they did. They will claim they did not.

Who is the more credible in the eyes of the judge and jury?

We shall see, won't we now.

Here YOU are the identified liar, and best of lucky breaks, here you are
not sworn to tell the truth. And of course you don't.

I sometimes wonder if you told me the truth about your beliefs
concerning the pointing of a gun at the workers transporting the
Christine's children (who were legally in the custody of the state).

But then who knows what lies in the hearts of men?

<insane cackle>


Greg, you are a joke.

0:->








--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> agression in the Black community.
>
> References:
> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> 32, 1065-1072.
>
> Doan

Actually what was said, just as he lied using this method about Straus'
comments on Baumrind's Berkeley presentation, turns out to be
considerably more and considerably different in this example.

From the source...and you might notice no active link was provided so
we could check the veracity of the poster...you will find the following:

Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S. (1996).
Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.

[[[ This is were the poster stopped, after making a claim that "Any one
who has read the research on the effects of spanking on African American
should know that that, unlike white European American, spankings were
associates with lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of
spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher
misbehavior and agression[sic] in the Black community." I draw your
attention to the *** marked passage. ]]]

The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between physical
discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group status. A
sample of 466 European American and 100 African American children from a
broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from kindergarten
through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical discipline in
interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and peers rated
children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction between
ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and peer-rated
externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with higher
externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
***These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific.


"May be" is a long way from "the lack of spanking that has been shown,
repeatedly."

Once again the poster lies by manipulating context. And has done so for
years.

Not only does he do it, but when it's pointed out he asks, "what don't
you understand about [the snipped passage out of context," thus
compounding the lie.

A lie is any attempt to mislead.

Would you say the above was not a blatant attempt to mislead, making
claims NOT even referenced in his source?

No study proving the lack of spanking resulted in more aggression among
African American children was offered in support of his claim..though he
claims there is evidence "repeatedly" offered..........somewhere.

Not unlike krp recently, this poster simply dodged after making the claim.

"Who here believe" the poster?

Kane



>
>
> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> ... spanking, of course.
>>
>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>
>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>> Corporal Punishment?s Hidden Costs
>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>
>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>
>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>> separate incidents in the city?s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>> Chicago?s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>
>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>> violence.
>>
>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>
>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>
>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment?the infliction of
>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>> controlling behavior?as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>> punishment of children.
>>
>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>> ?counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.?
>>
>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>
>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>> corporal punishment.
>>
>> His major argument is simple: ?the use of corporal punishment teaches
>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.? Poussaint, who was
>> an adviser to the popular program ?The Cosby Show,? says corporal
>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>> black community.
>>
>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>
>> ?There?s an overuse of beating kids,? he said, breaking a major taboo
>> among black leadership by raising this issue. ?So that you have 80
>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them?beat the devil
>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>> get.?
>>
>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice?s Bureau of
>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>
>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>> ten times the white rate.
>>
>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>
>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint?s
>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn?t make sense is
>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>
>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>> spare the rod and for far too many, the case is closed. Also, many
>> African-American parents argue they must discipline their children
>> harshly to prepare them better for the racist treatment they?re sure to
>> receive in the Untied States.
>>
>> But Poussaint said his research found that 80 to 90 percent of black
>> prison inmates were severely punished or neglected as children. It
>> doesn?t work.
>>
>> There?s also the sheer injustice of imposing an act of physical violence
>> on someone smaller and weaker: As we?ve learned from U.S. foreign
>> policy, that never leads to positive outcomes.
>>
>> Salim Muwakkil is a senior editor of In These Times, where he has worked
>> since 1983, and an op-ed columnist for the Chicago Tribune. He is
>> currently a Crime and Communities Media Fellow of the Open Society
>> Institute, examining the impact of ex-inmates and gang leaders in
>> leadership positions in the black community.
>>
>> More information about Salim Muwakkil
>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/about/author/13
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>
>

[0:->]

When challenged to show proof for his claim, this is what he replied,
thus showing just who was actually doing what the challenger, myself,
was accused of doing;

Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!

Doan

Answered to my challenge below:

> > Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.

This is what has made Usenet a pointless exercise in fact finding and
reasoned discussion. This kind of blatant lying.

The poster made a claim, was asked to prove his claim, and danced away
with ad hom rather than do so.

One cannot debate a liar, who simply claims, by lying, the other person
lies.

No doubt he'll have some other clever lie to attempt, impotently, to
refute the truth about him.





0:-> wrote:
> Doan wrote:
>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
>> agression in the Black community.
>>
>> References:
>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
>> 32, 1065-1072.
>>
>> Doan
>
> Actually what was said, just as he lied using this method about Straus'
> comments on Baumrind's Berkeley presentation, turns out to be
> considerably more and considerably different in this example.
>
> From the source...and you might notice no active link was provided so
> we could check the veracity of the poster...you will find the following:
>
> Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>
> [[[ This is were the poster stopped, after making a claim that "Any one
> who has read the research on the effects of spanking on African American
> should know that that, unlike white European American, spankings were
> associates with lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of
> spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher
> misbehavior and agression[sic] in the Black community." I draw your
> attention to the *** marked passage. ]]]
>
> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between physical
> discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group status. A
> sample of 466 European American and 100 African American children from a
> broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from kindergarten
> through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical discipline in
> interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and peers rated
> children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction between
> ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and peer-rated
> externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with higher
> externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> ***These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific.
>
>
> "May be" is a long way from "the lack of spanking that has been shown,
> repeatedly."
>
> Once again the poster lies by manipulating context. And has done so for
> years.
>
> Not only does he do it, but when it's pointed out he asks, "what don't
> you understand about [the snipped passage out of context," thus
> compounding the lie.
>
> A lie is any attempt to mislead.
>
> Would you say the above was not a blatant attempt to mislead, making
> claims NOT even referenced in his source?
>
> No study proving the lack of spanking resulted in more aggression among
> African American children was offered in support of his claim..though he
> claims there is evidence "repeatedly" offered..........somewhere.
>
> Not unlike krp recently, this poster simply dodged after making the claim.
>
> "Who here believe" the poster?
>
> Kane
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>
>>> ... spanking, of course.
>>>
>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>>
>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>>> Corporal Punishment?s Hidden Costs
>>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>>
>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>
>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>>> separate incidents in the city?s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>>> Chicago?s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>>
>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>>> violence.
>>>
>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>>
>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>
>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment?the infliction of
>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>>> controlling behavior?as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>>> punishment of children.
>>>
>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>>> ?counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.?
>>>
>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>>
>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>>> corporal punishment.
>>>
>>> His major argument is simple: ?the use of corporal punishment teaches
>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.? Poussaint, who was
>>> an adviser to the popular program ?The Cosby Show,? says corporal
>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>>> black community.
>>>
>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>>
>>> ?There?s an overuse of beating kids,? he said, breaking a major taboo
>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. ?So that you have 80
>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them?beat the devil
>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>>> get.?
>>>
>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice?s Bureau of
>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>>
>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>>> ten times the white rate.
>>>
>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>>
>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint?s
>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn?t make sense is
>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>>
>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>>> spare the rod and for far too many, the case is closed. Also, many
>>> African-American parents argue they must discipline their children
>>> harshly to prepare them better for the racist treatment they?re sure to
>>> receive in the Untied States.
>>>
>>> But Poussaint said his research found that 80 to 90 percent of black
>>> prison inmates were severely punished or neglected as children. It
>>> doesn?t work.
>>>
>>> There?s also the sheer injustice of imposing an act of physical violence
>>> on someone smaller and weaker: As we?ve learned from U.S. foreign
>>> policy, that never leads to positive outcomes.
>>>
>>> Salim Muwakkil is a senior editor of In These Times, where he has worked
>>> since 1983, and an op-ed columnist for the Chicago Tribune. He is
>>> currently a Crime and Communities Media Fellow of the Open Society
>>> Institute, examining the impact of ex-inmates and gang leaders in
>>> leadership positions in the black community.
>>>
>>> More information about Salim Muwakkil
>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/about/author/13
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>>
>>

[Doan]

So much for the claim he is on my "do-not-reply" list and "I don't read
hist post". Can you believe how STUPID this liar, Kane is? ;-)

Doan


On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> > Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> > the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> > that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> > lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> > been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> > agression in the Black community.
> >
> > References:
> > Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> > Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> > Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> > 32, 1065-1072.
> >
> > Doan
>
> Actually what was said, just as he lied using this method about Straus'
> comments on Baumrind's Berkeley presentation, turns out to be
> considerably more and considerably different in this example.
>
> From the source...and you might notice no active link was provided so
> we could check the veracity of the poster...you will find the following:
>
> Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>
> [[[ This is were the poster stopped, after making a claim that "Any one
> who has read the research on the effects of spanking on African American
> should know that that, unlike white European American, spankings were
> associates with lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of
> spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher
> misbehavior and agression[sic] in the Black community." I draw your
> attention to the *** marked passage. ]]]
>
> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between physical
> discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group status. A
> sample of 466 European American and 100 African American children from a
> broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from kindergarten
> through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical discipline in
> interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and peers rated
> children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction between
> ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and peer-rated
> externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with higher
> externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> ***These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific.
>
>
> "May be" is a long way from "the lack of spanking that has been shown,
> repeatedly."
>
> Once again the poster lies by manipulating context. And has done so for
> years.
>
> Not only does he do it, but when it's pointed out he asks, "what don't
> you understand about [the snipped passage out of context," thus
> compounding the lie.
>
> A lie is any attempt to mislead.
>
> Would you say the above was not a blatant attempt to mislead, making
> claims NOT even referenced in his source?
>
> No study proving the lack of spanking resulted in more aggression among
> African American children was offered in support of his claim..though he
> claims there is evidence "repeatedly" offered..........somewhere.
>
> Not unlike krp recently, this poster simply dodged after making the claim.
>
> "Who here believe" the poster?
>
> Kane
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> ... spanking, of course.
> >>
> >> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> >>
> >> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> >> Corporal Punishment?s Hidden Costs
> >> By Salim Muwakkil
> >>
> >> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> >> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> >> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>
> >> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> >> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> >> separate incidents in the city?s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> >> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> >> Chicago?s inner-city neighborhoods.
> >>
> >> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> >> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> >> violence.
> >>
> >> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> >> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> >>
> >> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> >> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> >> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>
> >> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment?the infliction of
> >> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> >> controlling behavior?as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> >> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> >> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> >> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> >> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> >> punishment of children.
> >>
> >> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> >> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> >> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> >> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> >> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> >> ?counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.?
> >>
> >> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> >> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> >> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> >> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> >> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> >> for a society that called itself civilized.
> >>
> >> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> >> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> >> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> >> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> >> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> >> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> >> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> >> corporal punishment.
> >>
> >> His major argument is simple: ?the use of corporal punishment teaches
> >> children that violence is the way to solve problems.? Poussaint, who was
> >> an adviser to the popular program ?The Cosby Show,? says corporal
> >> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> >> black community.
> >>
> >> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> >> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> >> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> >> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> >> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> >>
> >> ?There?s an overuse of beating kids,? he said, breaking a major taboo
> >> among black leadership by raising this issue. ?So that you have 80
> >> percent of black parents believing you should beat them?beat the devil
> >> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> >> get.?
> >>
> >> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> >> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice?s Bureau of
> >> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> >> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> >>
> >> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> >> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> >> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> >> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> >> ten times the white rate.
> >>
> >> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> >> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> >> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> >> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> >> responsibility and cultural standards.
> >>
> >> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint?s
> >> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn?t make sense is
> >> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> >> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> >>
> >> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> >> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
> >> spare the rod and for far too many, the case is closed. Also, many
> >> African-American parents argue they must discipline their children
> >> harshly to prepare them better for the racist treatment they?re sure to
> >> receive in the Untied States.
> >>
> >> But Poussaint said his research found that 80 to 90 percent of black
> >> prison inmates were severely punished or neglected as children. It
> >> doesn?t work.
> >>
> >> There?s also the sheer injustice of imposing an act of physical violence
> >> on someone smaller and weaker: As we?ve learned from U.S. foreign
> >> policy, that never leads to positive outcomes.
> >>
> >> Salim Muwakkil is a senior editor of In These Times, where he has worked
> >> since 1983, and an op-ed columnist for the Chicago Tribune. He is
> >> currently a Crime and Communities Media Fellow of the Open Society
> >> Institute, examining the impact of ex-inmates and gang leaders in
> >> leadership positions in the black community.
> >>
> >> More information about Salim Muwakkil
> >> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/about/author/13
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >>
> >
>

[Doan]

So much for the claim that I am on Kane's "do-not-reply" list and he
doesn't read my posts! How STUPID can this Kane be?

Doan


On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:

> When challenged to show proof for his claim, this is what he replied,
> thus showing just who was actually doing what the challenger, myself,
> was accused of doing;
>
> Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
> and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
>
> Doan
>
> Answered to my challenge below:
>
> > > Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>
> This is what has made Usenet a pointless exercise in fact finding and
> reasoned discussion. This kind of blatant lying.
>
> The poster made a claim, was asked to prove his claim, and danced away
> with ad hom rather than do so.
>
> One cannot debate a liar, who simply claims, by lying, the other person
> lies.
>
> No doubt he'll have some other clever lie to attempt, impotently, to
> refute the truth about him.
>
>
>
>
>
> 0:-> wrote:
> > Doan wrote:
> >> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
> >> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
> >> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
> >> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
> >> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> >> agression in the Black community.
> >>
> >> References:
> >> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> >> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
> >> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
> >> 32, 1065-1072.
> >>
> >> Doan
> >
> > Actually what was said, just as he lied using this method about Straus'
> > comments on Baumrind's Berkeley presentation, turns out to be
> > considerably more and considerably different in this example.
> >
> > From the source...and you might notice no active link was provided so
> > we could check the veracity of the poster...you will find the following:
> >
> > Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S. (1996).
> > Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
> > mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
> > Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
> >
> > [[[ This is were the poster stopped, after making a claim that "Any one
> > who has read the research on the effects of spanking on African American
> > should know that that, unlike white European American, spankings were
> > associates with lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of
> > spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher
> > misbehavior and agression[sic] in the Black community." I draw your
> > attention to the *** marked passage. ]]]
> >
> > The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between physical
> > discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group status. A
> > sample of 466 European American and 100 African American children from a
> > broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from kindergarten
> > through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical discipline in
> > interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and peers rated
> > children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction between
> > ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and peer-rated
> > externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with higher
> > externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
> > ***These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
> > punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific.
> >
> >
> > "May be" is a long way from "the lack of spanking that has been shown,
> > repeatedly."
> >
> > Once again the poster lies by manipulating context. And has done so for
> > years.
> >
> > Not only does he do it, but when it's pointed out he asks, "what don't
> > you understand about [the snipped passage out of context," thus
> > compounding the lie.
> >
> > A lie is any attempt to mislead.
> >
> > Would you say the above was not a blatant attempt to mislead, making
> > claims NOT even referenced in his source?
> >
> > No study proving the lack of spanking resulted in more aggression among
> > African American children was offered in support of his claim..though he
> > claims there is evidence "repeatedly" offered..........somewhere.
> >
> > Not unlike krp recently, this poster simply dodged after making the claim.
> >
> > "Who here believe" the poster?
> >
> > Kane
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
> >>
> >>> ... spanking, of course.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
> >>>
> >>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
> >>> Corporal Punishment?s Hidden Costs
> >>> By Salim Muwakkil
> >>>
> >>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
> >>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
> >>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>
> >>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
> >>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
> >>> separate incidents in the city?s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
> >>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
> >>> Chicago?s inner-city neighborhoods.
> >>>
> >>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
> >>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
> >>> violence.
> >>>
> >>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
> >>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
> >>>
> >>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
> >>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
> >>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
> >>>
> >>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment?the infliction of
> >>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
> >>> controlling behavior?as the culprit in a wide variety of social
> >>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
> >>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
> >>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
> >>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
> >>> punishment of children.
> >>>
> >>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
> >>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
> >>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
> >>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
> >>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
> >>> ?counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.?
> >>>
> >>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
> >>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
> >>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
> >>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
> >>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
> >>> for a society that called itself civilized.
> >>>
> >>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
> >>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
> >>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
> >>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
> >>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
> >>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
> >>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
> >>> corporal punishment.
> >>>
> >>> His major argument is simple: ?the use of corporal punishment teaches
> >>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.? Poussaint, who was
> >>> an adviser to the popular program ?The Cosby Show,? says corporal
> >>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
> >>> black community.
> >>>
> >>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
> >>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
> >>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
> >>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
> >>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
> >>>
> >>> ?There?s an overuse of beating kids,? he said, breaking a major taboo
> >>> among black leadership by raising this issue. ?So that you have 80
> >>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them?beat the devil
> >>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
> >>> get.?
> >>>
> >>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
> >>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice?s Bureau of
> >>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
> >>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
> >>>
> >>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
> >>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
> >>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
> >>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
> >>> ten times the white rate.
> >>>
> >>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
> >>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
> >>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
> >>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
> >>> responsibility and cultural standards.
> >>>
> >>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint?s
> >>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn?t make sense is
> >>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
> >>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
> >>>
> >>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
> >>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
> >>> spare the rod and for far too many, the case is closed. Also, many
> >>> African-American parents argue they must discipline their children
> >>> harshly to prepare them better for the racist treatment they?re sure to
> >>> receive in the Untied States.
> >>>
> >>> But Poussaint said his research found that 80 to 90 percent of black
> >>> prison inmates were severely punished or neglected as children. It
> >>> doesn?t work.
> >>>
> >>> There?s also the sheer injustice of imposing an act of physical violence
> >>> on someone smaller and weaker: As we?ve learned from U.S. foreign
> >>> policy, that never leads to positive outcomes.
> >>>
> >>> Salim Muwakkil is a senior editor of In These Times, where he has worked
> >>> since 1983, and an op-ed columnist for the Chicago Tribune. He is
> >>> currently a Crime and Communities Media Fellow of the Open Society
> >>> Institute, examining the impact of ex-inmates and gang leaders in
> >>> leadership positions in the black community.
> >>>
> >>> More information about Salim Muwakkil
> >>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/about/author/13
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
> >>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
> >>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
> >>>
> >>
>

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
> So much for the claim that I am on Kane's "do-not-reply" list and he
> doesn't read my posts! How STUPID can this Kane be?

Can't handle the challenge of the actual issue, I see, as usual, you
cock sucking little asshole ****er and mother's **** sucker.
>
> Doan

R E EE E RR R RR R....

What a ****ing nutcase you are Doan.

The public sector won't have you so you have to hide out in academia for
years so your family won't be embarassed at at how dishonest and sick
you've turned out.

R R R R R R R


>
>
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> When challenged to show proof for his claim, this is what he replied,
>> thus showing just who was actually doing what the challenger, myself,
>> was accused of doing;
>>
>> Hahaha! Once again, Kane demonstrated his stupidity in public! He twisted
>> and he turned; anything he can to avoid the truth!
>>
>> Doan
>>
>> Answered to my challenge below:
>>
>> > > Not so, monkeyboy. Prove your claim.
>>
>> This is what has made Usenet a pointless exercise in fact finding and
>> reasoned discussion. This kind of blatant lying.
>>
>> The poster made a claim, was asked to prove his claim, and danced away
>> with ad hom rather than do so.
>>
>> One cannot debate a liar, who simply claims, by lying, the other person
>> lies.
>>
>> No doubt he'll have some other clever lie to attempt, impotently, to
>> refute the truth about him.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 0:-> wrote:
>>> Doan wrote:
>>>> Hahaha! Kane is showing hist stupidity again. Any one who has read
>>>> the research on the effects of spanking on African American should know
>>>> that that, unlike white European American, spankings were associates with
>>>> lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of spanking that has
>>>> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
>>>> agression in the Black community.
>>>>
>>>> References:
>>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Bates, J.E., Dodge, K.A., Pettit, G.S. (1996).
>>>> Physical discipline among African American and European American mothers:
>>>> Links to children?s externalizing behaviors. Developmental Psychology,
>>>> 32, 1065-1072.
>>>>
>>>> Doan
>>> Actually what was said, just as he lied using this method about Straus'
>>> comments on Baumrind's Berkeley presentation, turns out to be
>>> considerably more and considerably different in this example.
>>>
>>> From the source...and you might notice no active link was provided so
>>> we could check the veracity of the poster...you will find the following:
>>>
>>> Deater-Deckard, K., Dodge, K.A., Bates, J.E., & Pettit, G.S. (1996).
>>> Physical discipline among African-American and European-American
>>> mothers: Links to children's externalizing behaviors. Developmental
>>> Psychology, 32, 1065-1072.
>>>
>>> [[[ This is were the poster stopped, after making a claim that "Any one
>>> who has read the research on the effects of spanking on African American
>>> should know that that, unlike white European American, spankings were
>>> associates with lesser misbehavior and aggression. It is the lack of
>>> spanking that has been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher
>>> misbehavior and agression[sic] in the Black community." I draw your
>>> attention to the *** marked passage. ]]]
>>>
>>> The aim of this study was to test whether the relation between physical
>>> discipline and child aggression was moderated by ethnic-group status. A
>>> sample of 466 European American and 100 African American children from a
>>> broad range of socioeconomic levels were followed from kindergarten
>>> through 3rd grade. Mothers reported their use of physical discipline in
>>> interviews and questionnaires, and mothers, teachers, and peers rated
>>> children's externalizing problems annually. The interaction between
>>> ethnic status and discipline was significant for teacher- and peer-rated
>>> externalizing scores; physical discipline was associated with higher
>>> externalizing scores, but only among European American children.
>>> ***These findings provide evidence that the link between physical
>>> punishment and child aggression may be culturally specific.
>>>
>>>
>>> "May be" is a long way from "the lack of spanking that has been shown,
>>> repeatedly."
>>>
>>> Once again the poster lies by manipulating context. And has done so for
>>> years.
>>>
>>> Not only does he do it, but when it's pointed out he asks, "what don't
>>> you understand about [the snipped passage out of context," thus
>>> compounding the lie.
>>>
>>> A lie is any attempt to mislead.
>>>
>>> Would you say the above was not a blatant attempt to mislead, making
>>> claims NOT even referenced in his source?
>>>
>>> No study proving the lack of spanking resulted in more aggression among
>>> African American children was offered in support of his claim..though he
>>> claims there is evidence "repeatedly" offered..........somewhere.
>>>
>>> Not unlike krp recently, this poster simply dodged after making the claim.
>>>
>>> "Who here believe" the poster?
>>>
>>> Kane
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006, 0:-> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ... spanking, of course.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2812/
>>>>>
>>>>> Views > September 8, 2006 > Web Only
>>>>> Corporal Punishment?s Hidden Costs
>>>>> By Salim Muwakkil
>>>>>
>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage
>>>>> corporal punishment among African Americans, I believe it would do more
>>>>> to stem the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>
>>>>> An errant bullet hit the eye of a 12-year-old Chicago girl on August 27
>>>>> but she survived. Earlier this year, stray bullets killed two girls in
>>>>> separate incidents in the city?s Englewood neighborhood and triggered a
>>>>> flurry of activity designed to address the chronic violence hammering
>>>>> Chicago?s inner-city neighborhoods.
>>>>>
>>>>> In black communities across the United States, concerned people are
>>>>> gathering with increasing urgency, seeking solutions to rising rates of
>>>>> violence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me add one suggestion that is not likely to be raised at any of
>>>>> these gatherings: Stop spanking your children.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the civil rights community began a movement to discourage corporal
>>>>> punishment among African-Americans, I believe it would do more to stem
>>>>> the tide of interpersonal violence than any other strategy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Experts are increasingly fingering corporal punishment?the infliction of
>>>>> physical pain on the body of a child for purposes of punishment or
>>>>> controlling behavior?as the culprit in a wide variety of social
>>>>> dysfunctions. A host of relevant professional organizations, including
>>>>> the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological
>>>>> Association and the National Association of Social Workers have
>>>>> published position papers opposing or strongly discouraging corporal
>>>>> punishment of children.
>>>>>
>>>>> International research on the deleterious effects of physical punishment
>>>>> is so compelling that the United Nations has initiated a global program
>>>>> to eliminate it. Not only is corporal punishment of children a violation
>>>>> of human rights, the United Nations argued in a 2005 UNESCO publication,
>>>>> that according to a preponderance of research, it is also
>>>>> ?counterproductive, relatively ineffective, dangerous and harmful.?
>>>>>
>>>>> In 1979, Sweden became the first country in the world to ban all
>>>>> corporal punishment of children. Twelve more European countries have
>>>>> followed: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Croatia,
>>>>> Latvia, Germany, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Iceland. Leaders in these
>>>>> countries concluded that the costs of corporal punishment were too high
>>>>> for a society that called itself civilized.
>>>>>
>>>>> Despite this wide consensus on the ills of corporal punishment, there is
>>>>> scant sentiment for an anti-spanking movement among African Americans.
>>>>> But that may be changing. Growing numbers of experts who focus on the
>>>>> black community, are also raising questions about the high costs of
>>>>> using physical violence to punish children. Dr. Alvin Poussaint, a
>>>>> professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who has written
>>>>> extensively on African-American issues, has long opposed the use of
>>>>> corporal punishment.
>>>>>
>>>>> His major argument is simple: ?the use of corporal punishment teaches
>>>>> children that violence is the way to solve problems.? Poussaint, who was
>>>>> an adviser to the popular program ?The Cosby Show,? says corporal
>>>>> punishment also has other harmful effects on the social life of the
>>>>> black community.
>>>>>
>>>>> At a recent forum on young black men, sponsored by the Washington Post
>>>>> and the Kaiser Family Foundation, Poussaint fingered corporal punishment
>>>>> as a factor in the disproportionate expulsions of black children from
>>>>> pre-school programs, especially males. He said his research has found
>>>>> that even preschool black males harbor a lot of anger.
>>>>>
>>>>> ?There?s an overuse of beating kids,? he said, breaking a major taboo
>>>>> among black leadership by raising this issue. ?So that you have 80
>>>>> percent of black parents believing you should beat them?beat the devil
>>>>> out of them. And research shows the more you beat them, the angrier they
>>>>> get.?
>>>>>
>>>>> High levels of violent crime in black communities certainly reflect that
>>>>> anger. According to figures from the Department of Justice?s Bureau of
>>>>> Justice Statistics, African Americans were more likely than other
>>>>> Americans to be both victims and perpetrators of violent crime.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 2000, blacks were six times more likely than whites to be victims of
>>>>> murder. They also were seven times more likely to be perpetrators. In
>>>>> fact, for the last half-century blacks were homicide victims at least
>>>>> five times more than whites were. Sometimes that rate reached more than
>>>>> ten times the white rate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Among the major reasons cited for this disparity are poverty,
>>>>> segregation, media violence and the self-hatred inculcated by a white
>>>>> supremacist culture. Some argue the problem is simply one of bad
>>>>> behavior, abetted by black communities that deemphasize personal
>>>>> responsibility and cultural standards.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a bit of truth in those explanations, but Poussaint?s
>>>>> anti-spanking reasoning also makes sense. What doesn?t make sense is
>>>>> that black leaders have yet to make the connection between high rates of
>>>>> corporal punishment and high rates of interpersonal violence.
>>>>>
>>>>> One reason for this reticence is the influence of the church. All
>>>>> spanking advocates need to do is cite a biblical justification not to
>>>>> spare the rod and for far too many, the case is closed. Also, many
>>>>> African-American parents argue they must discipline their children
>>>>> harshly to prepare them better for the racist treatment they?re sure to
>>>>> receive in the Untied States.
>>>>>
>>>>> But Poussaint said his research found that 80 to 90 percent of black
>>>>> prison inmates were severely punished or neglected as children. It
>>>>> doesn?t work.
>>>>>
>>>>> There?s also the sheer injustice of imposing an act of physical violence
>>>>> on someone smaller and weaker: As we?ve learned from U.S. foreign
>>>>> policy, that never leads to positive outcomes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Salim Muwakkil is a senior editor of In These Times, where he has worked
>>>>> since 1983, and an op-ed columnist for the Chicago Tribune. He is
>>>>> currently a Crime and Communities Media Fellow of the Open Society
>>>>> Institute, examining the impact of ex-inmates and gang leaders in
>>>>> leadership positions in the black community.
>>>>>
>>>>> More information about Salim Muwakkil
>>>>> http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/about/author/13
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
>>>>> to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
>>>>> contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
>>>>>
>

[Doan]

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:

> Can't handle the challenge of the actual issue, I see, as usual, you
> cock sucking little asshole ****er and mother's **** sucker.

Hihihi! Am I still on you "do-not-reply" list, Kane? Your mom taught
you well! You just exposed yourself, again, as a STUPID liar! Is that
an example of how a "never-spanked" kid turned out, Kane?

Doan

[Doan]

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> > So much for the claim that I am on Kane's "do-not-reply" list and he
> > doesn't read my posts! How STUPID can this Kane be?
>
> Can't handle the challenge of the actual issue, I see, as usual, you
> cock sucking little asshole ****er and mother's **** sucker.
> >
> > Doan
>
> R E EE E RR R RR R....
>
> What a ****ing nutcase you are Doan.
>
> The public sector won't have you so you have to hide out in academia for
> years so your family won't be embarassed at at how dishonest and sick
> you've turned out.
>
> R R R R R R R
>
With post like this, no wonder Ron has so much RESPECT for you! ;-)

Doan

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
>
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> Doan wrote:
>>> So much for the claim that I am on Kane's "do-not-reply" list and he
>>> doesn't read my posts! How STUPID can this Kane be?
>> Can't handle the challenge of the actual issue, I see, as usual, you
>> cock sucking little asshole ****er and mother's **** sucker.
>>> Doan
>> R E EE E RR R RR R....
>>
>> What a ****ing nutcase you are Doan.
>>
>> The public sector won't have you so you have to hide out in academia for
>> years so your family won't be embarassed at at how dishonest and sick
>> you've turned out.
>>
>> R R R R R R R
>>
> With post like this, no wonder Ron has so much RESPECT for you! ;-)

Your problem is that you think that everything is a lie, but what YOU post.

That's your sickness, little boy.

>
> Doan
>

With posts like this YOUR nutty bull**** is highlighted.

You lie right into the truth in front of you. Have you any idea how
certifiable that is?

You quoted, and have done so for years, out of context...ignoring the
meaning of the entire narrative to make a claim that does NOT fly if one
does read it all.

Straus didn't say Baumrind's study was excellent. Read IT ALL.

You are claiming that because you are wearing a shirt, but don't mention
you have no pants on, you are wearing a shirt, and that's all that
matters.

And you talk about the Emperors new clothes.

And you don't GET how ****ing insane a claim that is.

Doan, that is a symptom of mental illness, I **** you NOT.

Get thee to the psychology department and ask for a clinician. You NEED
help, boy.

You think it's clever and cute. It isn't.

It's dangerous and if continued you could find yourself confined to a
rubber room. I mean this most seriously.

Kane

[Doan]

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> Doan wrote:
> >>> So much for the claim that I am on Kane's "do-not-reply" list and he
> >>> doesn't read my posts! How STUPID can this Kane be?
> >> Can't handle the challenge of the actual issue, I see, as usual, you
> >> cock sucking little asshole ****er and mother's **** sucker.
> >>> Doan
> >> R E EE E RR R RR R....
> >>
> >> What a ****ing nutcase you are Doan.
> >>
> >> The public sector won't have you so you have to hide out in academia for
> >> years so your family won't be embarassed at at how dishonest and sick
> >> you've turned out.
> >>
> >> R R R R R R R
> >>
> > With post like this, no wonder Ron has so much RESPECT for you! ;-)
>
> Your problem is that you think that everything is a lie, but what YOU post.
>
> That's your sickness, little boy.
>
So if someone, like you Kane, claimed that he does not read my posts, has
me on his "do-not-reply" list, and yet, still replied to my posts, what
would you call such a person, Kane? I think a STUPID LIAR is very
appropriate! Don't you think so, Kane? ;-)

Doan

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> Doan wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doan wrote:
>>>>> So much for the claim that I am on Kane's "do-not-reply" list and he
>>>>> doesn't read my posts! How STUPID can this Kane be?
>>>> Can't handle the challenge of the actual issue, I see, as usual, you
>>>> cock sucking little asshole ****er and mother's **** sucker.
>>>>> Doan
>>>> R E EE E RR R RR R....
>>>>
>>>> What a ****ing nutcase you are Doan.
>>>>
>>>> The public sector won't have you so you have to hide out in academia for
>>>> years so your family won't be embarassed at at how dishonest and sick
>>>> you've turned out.
>>>>
>>>> R R R R R R R
>>>>
>>> With post like this, no wonder Ron has so much RESPECT for you! ;-)
>> Your problem is that you think that everything is a lie, but what YOU post.
>>
>> That's your sickness, little boy.
>>
> So if someone, like you Kane, claimed that he does not read my posts, has
> me on his "do-not-reply" list, and yet, still replied to my posts, what
> would you call such a person, Kane?

Some one so alarmed at how ****ing sick you are that he changed his
mind, Doan.

As simple as that.

Silly assed debate between us is NOT the issue, nutcase.

It's that you ****ing lie lie lie and call others liars, when the
evidence of your lie is on the monitor right in front of your face and
you deny it, or run, like this, from it.

It's not about my reading or not reading your posts you ****ing insance
**** spewer.

It's that you'd continue to defend a blantant lie by omission with it
staring you in the face that you lied.

Straus didn't ONLY say that Baumrind's study was excellent. HE SAID
"BUT" Doan, which means that 'excellent" it was NOT.

You ahve done the same thing for years, getting wilder and more obvious
as time passes with your shrinking away from the facts when presented
back to your from your own posts, and from the sources you pull pieces
from to LIE, to MISLEAD.

This isn't about "spanking," you ****ing fool. It's about YOU throwing
your life away by cultivating your delusional thinking until it's become
out of your control.

Go on, Doan.

Tell us, right here and now, publicly that, "lack of spanking that has
been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
agression in the Black community."

In the face of your own source that said something very very different,
with the qualifiers 'may be.'

You don't SEE what that kind of delusional thinking means, Doan? They
did NOT support you. Nor did you come back with PROOF when I asked you
to support that claim.

Man, your mind is ****ED.

Do YOU, a little self absorbed babbling ****ant sitting for hours in a
tech center at USC every day, dreaming up elaborate lies about corporal
punishment research, really want to put yourself up against a giant like
that ALVIN POUSSAINT, and make YOUR claim of the lack of spanking
resulting in More aggression in black children when he says, "No one
knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's psyche. You
should avoid using physical force on your child?"

When I say you are out of your ****ign mind, Doan I REALLY MEAN IT.

Do you really want to put a lie in the mouth of Dr. Straus, someone
you aren't fit to walk in the shadow of, let alone defy the research of,
by claiming he fully believed that Baumrinds presentation represented
ONLY excellent research, and as YOU claim, "the best study by far " when
Straus actually said and more fully qualified the small part of his
statement you quoted:

Straus:
" I said that her study is excellent, but despite that there are clear
reasons for not accepting her conclusions:"


Does THAT look to you like he's saying it's the best study by FAR?

One that has clear reason it's conclusions cannot be accepted?

Any reason I would NOT think you insane, Doan?

You are out of your ****ing mind if you think he conclusively considered
her study the best by far.

These little hedging dodges you use to make claims PROVES you are either
terminally immoral, or just out of your ****ing mind.

I'd like to think it just mental illness, Doan. That often can be fixed.

Those with moral dysfunctions are the most difficult and recalcirant to
work with.

Which is it, stupid?

> I think a STUPID LIAR is very
> appropriate! Don't you think so, Kane? ;-)

The problem, Doan is that you are so lost in that kind of thinking I
just exposed that your judgment is by default INCORRECT. A self delusion.

WE aren't buying into YOUR delusions.

>
> Doan
>

Seriously. Go talk to a shrink. You could tip over the edge at any time.
I think you are too isolated and have no one to live, real, close up, to
clue you in that you are losing it and have been for years.

You'd be the last to know, if you don't wake up NOW and do something
proactive to stop your delusional thinking.


Best wishes.



>

[0:->]

Doan wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:
>
>> Doan wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doan wrote:
>>>>> So much for the claim that I am on Kane's "do-not-reply" list and he
>>>>> doesn't read my posts! How STUPID can this Kane be?
>>>> Can't handle the challenge of the actual issue, I see, as usual, you
>>>> cock sucking little asshole ****er and mother's **** sucker.
>>>>> Doan
>>>> R E EE E RR R RR R....
>>>>
>>>> What a ****ing nutcase you are Doan.
>>>>
>>>> The public sector won't have you so you have to hide out in academia for
>>>> years so your family won't be embarassed at at how dishonest and sick
>>>> you've turned out.
>>>>
>>>> R R R R R R R
>>>>
>>> With post like this, no wonder Ron has so much RESPECT for you! ;-)
>> Your problem is that you think that everything is a lie, but what YOU post.
>>
>> That's your sickness, little boy.
>>
> So if someone, like you Kane, claimed that he does not read my posts, has
> me on his "do-not-reply" list, and yet, still replied to my posts, what
> would you call such a person, Kane? I think a STUPID LIAR is very
> appropriate! Don't you think so, Kane? ;-)
>
> Doan

Every response to me so far, Doan, has turned away from facing that your
thinking was full of error. That neither Straus or the other reseachers
actually said, in full context, what you claim they said and meant.

Doan, that's dangerous thinking in the mental health context.

It's akin to claiming that a car coming down the street is of no danger,
when in fact there's ****ING BUS DOING 50 AND ONLY 20 FEET AWAY.

JUMP, boy, jump.

Straus didn't say that, and the researchers on the black community and
spanking didn't say what you claimed.

And many more fantastic delusional pontifications from on high that you
have spewed are not more true that your babbling about these.

Get HELP.



>
>

[Doan]

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> Doan wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Doan wrote:
> >>>>> So much for the claim that I am on Kane's "do-not-reply" list and he
> >>>>> doesn't read my posts! How STUPID can this Kane be?
> >>>> Can't handle the challenge of the actual issue, I see, as usual, you
> >>>> cock sucking little asshole ****er and mother's **** sucker.
> >>>>> Doan
> >>>> R E EE E RR R RR R....
> >>>>
> >>>> What a ****ing nutcase you are Doan.
> >>>>
> >>>> The public sector won't have you so you have to hide out in academia for
> >>>> years so your family won't be embarassed at at how dishonest and sick
> >>>> you've turned out.
> >>>>
> >>>> R R R R R R R
> >>>>
> >>> With post like this, no wonder Ron has so much RESPECT for you! ;-)
> >> Your problem is that you think that everything is a lie, but what YOU post.
> >>
> >> That's your sickness, little boy.
> >>
> > So if someone, like you Kane, claimed that he does not read my posts, has
> > me on his "do-not-reply" list, and yet, still replied to my posts, what
> > would you call such a person, Kane?
>
> Some one so alarmed at how ****ing sick you are that he changed his
> mind, Doan.
>
Hahaha! No, Kane. You are a PROVEN LIAR!

> As simple as that.
>
> Silly assed debate between us is NOT the issue, nutcase.
>
There is no debate between us, Kane. It just your exposing your STUPIDITY
and me having fun at your expense! ;-)

> It's that you ****ing lie lie lie and call others liars, when the
> evidence of your lie is on the monitor right in front of your face and
> you deny it, or run, like this, from it.
>
Calling other people liars without proof is your M.O. I don't call
other people liar withou proof. I just PROVED that you are a LIAR, again!

> It's not about my reading or not reading your posts you ****ing insance
> **** spewer.
>
Ooops! More "****" coming out of your mouth! ;-)

> It's that you'd continue to defend a blantant lie by omission with it
> staring you in the face that you lied.
>
> Straus didn't ONLY say that Baumrind's study was excellent. HE SAID
> "BUT" Doan, which means that 'excellent" it was NOT.
>
Hahaha! You are such a STUPID LIAR! He said "BUT DESPIT THAT" which
means it was "excellent", STUPID!

Straus:
" I said that her study is excellent, but despite that there are clear
reasons for not accepting her conclusions:"

> You ahve done the same thing for years, getting wilder and more obvious
> as time passes with your shrinking away from the facts when presented
> back to your from your own posts, and from the sources you pull pieces
> from to LIE, to MISLEAD.
>
Hihihi! I just PROVED again, the LIAR is you!

> This isn't about "spanking," you ****ing fool. It's about YOU throwing
> your life away by cultivating your delusional thinking until it's become
> out of your control.
>
Hihihi! It's about me having fun at your expense, Kane. BECAUSE YOU ARE
JUST TOO STUPID!

> Go on, Doan.
>
Hihihi! Hahaha!

> Tell us, right here and now, publicly that, "lack of spanking that has
> been shown, repeatedly, to be associates with higher misbehavior and
> agression in the Black community."
>
Yup! Read the studies, STUPID! Even email Chris Dunga and asked him!
I DARE YOU! I DOUBLE DARE YOU! Hihihi!

> In the face of your own source that said something very very different,
> with the qualifiers 'may be.'
>
Hihihi! ARE YOU THIS STUPID?

> You don't SEE what that kind of delusional thinking means, Doan? They
> did NOT support you. Nor did you come back with PROOF when I asked you
> to support that claim.
>
Hihihi! YOU ARE THIS STUPID!

> Man, your mind is ****ED.
>
> Do YOU, a little self absorbed babbling ****ant sitting for hours in a
> tech center at USC every day, dreaming up elaborate lies about corporal
> punishment research, really want to put yourself up against a giant like
> that ALVIN POUSSAINT, and make YOUR claim of the lack of spanking
> resulting in More aggression in black children when he says, "No one
> knew 30 years ago how traumatic spanking was to a child's psyche. You
> should avoid using physical force on your child?"
>
Hihihi! You know ALVIN POUSSANT? Or is this another one of your STUPID
attempt of harassing me?

> When I say you are out of your ****ign mind, Doan I REALLY MEAN IT.
>
Hihihi! When I say that YOU ARE STUPID, Kane I REALLY MEAN IT. First
I thought Chris Dunga was only mad when he called you STUPID. You proved
him right days after days!

> Do you really want to put a lie in the mouth of Dr. Straus, someone
> you aren't fit to walk in the shadow of, let alone defy the research of,
> by claiming he fully believed that Baumrinds presentation represented
> ONLY excellent research, and as YOU claim, "the best study by far " when
> Straus actually said and more fully qualified the small part of his
> statement you quoted:
>
> Straus:
> " I said that her study is excellent, but despite that there are clear
> reasons for not accepting her conclusions:"
>
Which part of that sentence don't you understand, Kane?

>
> Does THAT look to you like he's saying it's the best study by FAR?
>
Yes! Which part of "excellent" don't you understand?

> One that has clear reason it's conclusions cannot be accepted?
>
> Any reason I would NOT think you insane, Doan?
>
Any reason I would NOT think you are STUPID, Kane? ;-)

> You are out of your ****ing mind if you think he conclusively considered
> her study the best by far.
>
And you STUPID if you think it was not "excellent"!

> These little hedging dodges you use to make claims PROVES you are either
> terminally immoral, or just out of your ****ing mind.
>
And it PROVED that you are just STUPID, Kane. Now you know why I laughed
at you when you claimed you are a published researcher?

> I'd like to think it just mental illness, Doan. That often can be fixed.
>
> Those with moral dysfunctions are the most difficult and recalcirant to
> work with.
>
> Which is it, stupid?
>
You have proven yourself to be STUPID! ;-)

> > I think a STUPID LIAR is very
> > appropriate! Don't you think so, Kane? ;-)
>
> The problem, Doan is that you are so lost in that kind of thinking I
> just exposed that your judgment is by default INCORRECT. A self delusion.
>
> WE aren't buying into YOUR delusions.
>
Anyone here believes Kane? ;-)

> >
> > Doan
> >
>
> Seriously. Go talk to a shrink. You could tip over the edge at any time.
> I think you are too isolated and have no one to live, real, close up, to
> clue you in that you are losing it and have been for years.
>
Hihihi!

> You'd be the last to know, if you don't wake up NOW and do something
> proactive to stop your delusional thinking.
>
I cannot fix your STUPIDITY! ;-)
>
> Best wishes.

Same to you, Kane! ;-)

[Doan]

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:

> Doan wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:
> >
> >> Doan wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Doan wrote:
> >>>>> So much for the claim that I am on Kane's "do-not-reply" list and he
> >>>>> doesn't read my posts! How STUPID can this Kane be?
> >>>> Can't handle the challenge of the actual issue, I see, as usual, you
> >>>> cock sucking little asshole ****er and mother's **** sucker.
> >>>>> Doan
> >>>> R E EE E RR R RR R....
> >>>>
> >>>> What a ****ing nutcase you are Doan.
> >>>>
> >>>> The public sector won't have you so you have to hide out in academia for
> >>>> years so your family won't be embarassed at at how dishonest and sick
> >>>> you've turned out.
> >>>>
> >>>> R R R R R R R
> >>>>
> >>> With post like this, no wonder Ron has so much RESPECT for you! ;-)
> >> Your problem is that you think that everything is a lie, but what YOU post.
> >>
> >> That's your sickness, little boy.
> >>
> > So if someone, like you Kane, claimed that he does not read my posts, has
> > me on his "do-not-reply" list, and yet, still replied to my posts, what
> > would you call such a person, Kane? I think a STUPID LIAR is very
> > appropriate! Don't you think so, Kane? ;-)
> >
> > Doan
>
> Every response to me so far, Doan, has turned away from facing that your
> thinking was full of error. That neither Straus or the other reseachers
> actually said, in full context, what you claim they said and meant.
>
> Doan, that's dangerous thinking in the mental health context.
>
> It's akin to claiming that a car coming down the street is of no danger,
> when in fact there's ****ING BUS DOING 50 AND ONLY 20 FEET AWAY.
>
> JUMP, boy, jump.
>
> Straus didn't say that, and the researchers on the black community and
> spanking didn't say what you claimed.
>
> And many more fantastic delusional pontifications from on high that you
> have spewed are not more true that your babbling about these.
>
> Get HELP.
>
You are exposing your STUPIDITY again, Kane. Just as STUPID as you
claiming that using dummies in an automobile safety study makes it
a CORRELATION study! I laugh so hard on that one asking myself how
can anyone be SO STUPID!

Doan

[anti-everything-bad]

No redeeming qualities whatsoever in any of
these fascist pigs.