Kirby in Huffington Post

[Vaccine-man]

Nice read.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html

There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence of
Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist that
mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."

I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my critics
are 100 percent correct.
This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
epidemic.

Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
"neurodiversity" community.

These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
autism.

>From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
"cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise is
to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability, which
is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
achievements.

It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years ago.

So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that yields
atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
others for their survival.

If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some steady,
but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better diagnostics
have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
decade ago.

But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am not
talking about curing the "neurodiverse."

I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never say
another word.

I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
shoes or fall in love.

I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
they can't say what or where it is.

I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea or
swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
kind of "autism" was pretty).

I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of alarms,
only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
Interstate.

I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.

I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their
sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
even realize it when their dad comes home from work.

These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they have
"autism."

Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently diagnosed
with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with the
most severe or even moderate cases.

My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do not
have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
something else.

American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to "better
diagnostics" or "greater awareness."

It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things in
our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.

Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune dysfunction,
social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
behaviors.

So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.

Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
"Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).

Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more likely
to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association between
autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).

So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to communicate.
Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
use the term "Native American."

Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and there
is no autism epidemic.

[Mark Probert]

Vaccine-man wrote:
> Nice read.
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>
> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence of
> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist that
> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
>
> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my critics
> are 100 percent correct.
> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
> epidemic.
>
> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
> "neurodiversity" community.
>
> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
> autism.
>
>>From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise is
> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability, which
> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
> achievements.
>
> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years ago.
>
> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that yields
> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
> others for their survival.
>
> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some steady,
> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better diagnostics
> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
> decade ago.
>
> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am not
> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
>
> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never say
> another word.
>
> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
> shoes or fall in love.
>
> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
> they can't say what or where it is.
>
> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea or
> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
> kind of "autism" was pretty).
>
> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of alarms,
> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
> Interstate.
>
> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
>
> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their
> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
>
> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they have
> "autism."
>
> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently diagnosed
> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with the
> most severe or even moderate cases.
>
> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do not
> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
> something else.
>
> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to "better
> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
>
> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things in
> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
>
> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune dysfunction,
> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
> behaviors.
>
> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
>
> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
>
> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more likely
> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association between
> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
>
> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to communicate.
> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
> use the term "Native American."
>
> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and there
> is no autism epidemic.
>
---------------

Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with him.

[Sdores]

"Mark Probert" > wrote in message
news:Iw8nh.4325$Uf.1028@trndny07...
> Vaccine-man wrote:
>> Nice read.
>>
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>>
>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence of
>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist that
>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
>>
>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my critics
>> are 100 percent correct.
>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
>> epidemic.
>>
>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
>> "neurodiversity" community.
>>
>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
>> autism.
>>
>>>From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise is
>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability, which
>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
>> achievements.
>>
>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years ago.
>>
>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that yields
>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
>> others for their survival.
>>
>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some steady,
>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better diagnostics
>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
>> decade ago.
>>
>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am not
>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
>>
>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never say
>> another word.
>>
>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
>> shoes or fall in love.
>>
>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
>> they can't say what or where it is.
>>
>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea or
>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
>>
>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of alarms,
>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
>> Interstate.
>>
>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
>>
>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their
>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
>>
>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they have
>> "autism."
>>
>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently diagnosed
>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with the
>> most severe or even moderate cases.
>>
>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do not
>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
>> something else.
>>
>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to "better
>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
>>
>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things in
>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
>>
>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune dysfunction,
>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
>> behaviors.
>>
>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
>>
>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
>>
>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more likely
>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association between
>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
>>
>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to communicate.
>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
>> use the term "Native American."
>>
>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and there
>> is no autism epidemic.
>>
> ---------------
>
> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with him.
>
Mark CNN had an excellent series on Autism a couple of weeks ago. It showed
the highs and the lows of Autism for the child and the parents. But what
was really fascinating is they followed and talked to a family who lives in
Miami, they had to move here because where they lived Autism isn't covered
by medical because it's not diagnosed as a disease and there wasn't any
government or community help there. Since they moved down here, a child who
didn't speak a word or wouldn't allow to be touched is now going to school
with his peers and is having special help from specialist in autism. He has
come so far it was amazing to watch the difference in this beautiful shining
child. His father still commutes to where he works out of state though
which is a total shame but apparently he has time in and needs for personal
reasons to stay with them, didn't understand all of this. But anyways, I
cried through a lot of this. They talked to adults with autism too and they
were great and you could tell they were independent and yes, they did NOT
want to be considered diseases or disabled and I don't blame them. You
might be able to find it on CNN News under the Dr's name on their list, I
forget his name. Absolutely excellent info. UM MO Susan

[Mike]

Mark Probert wrote:
> Vaccine-man wrote:
>> Nice read.
>>
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>>
>>
>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence of
>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist that
>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
>>
>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my critics
>> are 100 percent correct.
>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
>> epidemic.
>>
>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
>> "neurodiversity" community.
>>
>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
>> autism.
>>
>>> From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise is
>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability, which
>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
>> achievements.
>>
>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years ago.
>>
>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that yields
>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
>> others for their survival.
>>
>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some steady,
>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better diagnostics
>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
>> decade ago.
>>
>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am not
>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
>>
>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never say
>> another word.
>>
>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
>> shoes or fall in love.
>>
>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
>> they can't say what or where it is.
>>
>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea or
>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
>>
>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of alarms,
>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
>> Interstate.
>>
>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
>>
>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their
>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
>>
>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they have
>> "autism."
>>
>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently diagnosed
>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with the
>> most severe or even moderate cases.
>>
>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do not
>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
>> something else.
>>
>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to "better
>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
>>
>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things in
>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
>>
>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune dysfunction,
>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
>> behaviors.
>>
>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
>>
>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
>>
>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more likely
>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association between
>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
>>
>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to communicate.
>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
>> use the term "Native American."
>>
>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and there
>> is no autism epidemic.
>>
> ---------------
>
> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with him.
>

Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does not
say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether they
agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.

[justme]

Sdores wrote:
> "Mark Probert" > wrote in message
> news:Iw8nh.4325$Uf.1028@trndny07...
>> Vaccine-man wrote:
>>> Nice read.
>>>
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>>>

<snip>

>>
> Mark CNN had an excellent series on Autism a couple of weeks ago.

The transcript is available at
http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0612/28/ltm.02.html (aired Dec 28)

The same tape was played before. See
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/12/hcsg.01.html
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/17/i_ins.01.html
http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0611/25/hcsg.01.html

> It showed
> the highs and the lows of Autism for the child and the parents. But what
> was really fascinating is they followed and talked to a family who lives in
> Miami, they had to move here because where they lived Autism isn't covered
> by medical because it's not diagnosed as a disease

"Not diagnosed as a disease" is a serious distortion, the transcript
says nothing like that. In fact, it is not covered by insurance because
the insurers do not want to cover it and the laws do not mandate
covering it. A couple of quotes from the transcript:

****** If it's a developmental issue, it's not covered. ******

*** Only eight states mandate health insurance coverage for autism. ***

> and there wasn't any
> government or community help there. Since they moved down here, a child who
> didn't speak a word or wouldn't allow to be touched is now going to school
> with his peers and is having special help from specialist in autism. He has
> come so far it was amazing to watch the difference in this beautiful shining
> child. His father still commutes to where he works out of state though
> which is a total shame but apparently he has time in and needs for personal
> reasons to stay with them, didn't understand all of this. But anyways, I
> cried through a lot of this. They talked to adults with autism too and they
> were great and you could tell they were independent and yes, they did NOT
> want to be considered diseases or disabled and I don't blame them.

Got a link? Seems it was not in that broadcast.

By the way, many people that are disabled by conventional standards
(e.g. deaf) do not want to be considered disabled. As for these adults,
they apparently have Asperger's. They do not represent the majority of
autistics who are not independent.

> You
> might be able to find it on CNN News under the Dr's name on their list, I
> forget his name. Absolutely excellent info. UM MO Susan
>
The name is Dr. Gupta.

[Mark Probert]

Sdores wrote:
> "Mark Probert" > wrote in message
> news:Iw8nh.4325$Uf.1028@trndny07...
>> Vaccine-man wrote:
>>> Nice read.
>>>
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>>>
>>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
>>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence of
>>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
>>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist that
>>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
>>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
>>>
>>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my critics
>>> are 100 percent correct.
>>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
>>> epidemic.
>>>
>>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
>>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
>>> "neurodiversity" community.
>>>
>>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
>>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
>>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
>>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
>>> autism.
>>>
>>> >From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
>>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise is
>>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability, which
>>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
>>> achievements.
>>>
>>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
>>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years ago.
>>>
>>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that yields
>>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
>>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
>>> others for their survival.
>>>
>>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some steady,
>>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better diagnostics
>>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
>>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
>>> decade ago.
>>>
>>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
>>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am not
>>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
>>>
>>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never say
>>> another word.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
>>> shoes or fall in love.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
>>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
>>> they can't say what or where it is.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
>>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea or
>>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
>>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
>>>
>>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of alarms,
>>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
>>> Interstate.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
>>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
>>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their
>>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
>>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
>>>
>>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they have
>>> "autism."
>>>
>>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently diagnosed
>>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
>>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with the
>>> most severe or even moderate cases.
>>>
>>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do not
>>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
>>> something else.
>>>
>>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
>>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
>>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to "better
>>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
>>>
>>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
>>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things in
>>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
>>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
>>>
>>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
>>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
>>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
>>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune dysfunction,
>>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
>>> behaviors.
>>>
>>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
>>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
>>>
>>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
>>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
>>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
>>>
>>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
>>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more likely
>>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
>>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
>>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
>>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association between
>>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
>>>
>>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to communicate.
>>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
>>> use the term "Native American."
>>>
>>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and there
>>> is no autism epidemic.
>>>
>> ---------------
>>
>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with him.
>>
> Mark CNN had an excellent series on Autism a couple of weeks ago. It showed
> the highs and the lows of Autism for the child and the parents.

What was portrayed is the typical life of parents who have special needs
kids, regardless of the nature of the disability.

But what
> was really fascinating is they followed and talked to a family who lives in
> Miami, they had to move here because where they lived Autism isn't covered
> by medical because it's not diagnosed as a disease and there wasn't any
> government or community help there.

They must have lived in an incredibly rural area, since Autism is
specifically covered under IDEA for early intervention. Even then, the
school district is responsible for finding and providing appropriate
services.

However, considering how stupid some district administrators are, they
were better off moving.

Since they moved down here, a child who
> didn't speak a word or wouldn't allow to be touched is now going to school
> with his peers and is having special help from specialist in autism. He has
> come so far it was amazing to watch the difference in this beautiful shining
> child. His father still commutes to where he works out of state though
> which is a total shame but apparently he has time in and needs for personal
> reasons to stay with them, didn't understand all of this. But anyways, I
> cried through a lot of this.

I understood it at the time. Without the facts as reported, I won't
comment. I have seen similar situations before.

They talked to adults with autism too and they
> were great and you could tell they were independent and yes, they did NOT
> want to be considered diseases or disabled and I don't blame them. You
> might be able to find it on CNN News under the Dr's name on their list, I
> forget his name. Absolutely excellent info. UM MO Susan

There is a lot of good information out there. Just stay away from anyone
who claims that mercury causes autism.

[Mark Probert]

justme wrote:
> Sdores wrote:
>> "Mark Probert" > wrote in message
>> news:Iw8nh.4325$Uf.1028@trndny07...
>>> Vaccine-man wrote:
>>>> Nice read.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>>>>
>>>>
>
> <snip>
>
>>>
>> Mark CNN had an excellent series on Autism a couple of weeks ago.
>
> The transcript is available at
> http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0612/28/ltm.02.html (aired Dec 28)
>
> The same tape was played before. See
> http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/12/hcsg.01.html
> http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/17/i_ins.01.html
> http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0611/25/hcsg.01.html
>
>> It showed the highs and the lows of Autism for the child and the
>> parents. But what was really fascinating is they followed and talked
>> to a family who lives in Miami, they had to move here because where
>> they lived Autism isn't covered by medical because it's not diagnosed
>> as a disease
>
> "Not diagnosed as a disease" is a serious distortion, the transcript
> says nothing like that. In fact, it is not covered by insurance because
> the insurers do not want to cover it and the laws do not mandate
> covering it. A couple of quotes from the transcript:
>
> ****** If it's a developmental issue, it's not covered. ******
>
> *** Only eight states mandate health insurance coverage for autism. ***
>
>> and there wasn't any government or community help there. Since they
>> moved down here, a child who didn't speak a word or wouldn't allow to
>> be touched is now going to school with his peers and is having special
>> help from specialist in autism. He has come so far it was amazing to
>> watch the difference in this beautiful shining child. His father
>> still commutes to where he works out of state though which is a total
>> shame but apparently he has time in and needs for personal reasons to
>> stay with them, didn't understand all of this. But anyways, I cried
>> through a lot of this. They talked to adults with autism too and they
>> were great and you could tell they were independent and yes, they did
>> NOT want to be considered diseases or disabled and I don't blame them.
>
> Got a link? Seems it was not in that broadcast.
>
> By the way, many people that are disabled by conventional standards
> (e.g. deaf) do not want to be considered disabled. As for these adults,
> they apparently have Asperger's. They do not represent the majority of
> autistics who are not independent.

Do you have any verifiable stats on that?

>
>> You might be able to find it on CNN News under the Dr's name on their
>> list, I forget his name. Absolutely excellent info. UM MO Susan
> The name is Dr. Gupta.

[Mark Probert]

Mike wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
>> Vaccine-man wrote:
>>> Nice read.
>>>
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>>>
>>>
>>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
>>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence of
>>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
>>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist that
>>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
>>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
>>>
>>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my critics
>>> are 100 percent correct.
>>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
>>> epidemic.
>>>
>>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
>>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
>>> "neurodiversity" community.
>>>
>>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
>>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
>>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
>>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
>>> autism.
>>>
>>>> From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
>>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise is
>>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability, which
>>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
>>> achievements.
>>>
>>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
>>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years ago.
>>>
>>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that yields
>>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
>>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
>>> others for their survival.
>>>
>>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some steady,
>>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better diagnostics
>>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
>>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
>>> decade ago.
>>>
>>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
>>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am not
>>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
>>>
>>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never say
>>> another word.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
>>> shoes or fall in love.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
>>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
>>> they can't say what or where it is.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
>>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea or
>>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
>>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
>>>
>>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of alarms,
>>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
>>> Interstate.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
>>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
>>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their
>>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
>>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
>>>
>>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they have
>>> "autism."
>>>
>>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently diagnosed
>>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
>>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with the
>>> most severe or even moderate cases.
>>>
>>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do not
>>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
>>> something else.
>>>
>>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
>>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
>>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to "better
>>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
>>>
>>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
>>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things in
>>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
>>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
>>>
>>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
>>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
>>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
>>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune dysfunction,
>>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
>>> behaviors.
>>>
>>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
>>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
>>>
>>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
>>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
>>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
>>>
>>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
>>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more likely
>>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
>>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
>>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
>>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association between
>>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
>>>
>>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to communicate.
>>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
>>> use the term "Native American."
>>>
>>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and there
>>> is no autism epidemic.
>>>
>> ---------------
>>
>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with him.
>>
>
> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does not
> say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether they
> agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.

Mikey, you do not know the politics of Neurodiversity. There are several
bloggers who are parents of Autistics, and have taken Kirby to task for
his bull****. And, he is mocking Neurodiversity, which is an attack.

Of course, being you, you are incapable of distinguishing a lie from my
expression of my opinion.

Get a clue.

[PeterB]

Mike wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
> > Vaccine-man wrote:
> >> Nice read.
> >>
> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
> >>
> >>
> >> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
> >> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence of
> >> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
> >> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist that
> >> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
> >> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
> >>
> >> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my critics
> >> are 100 percent correct.
> >> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
> >> epidemic.
> >>
> >> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
> >> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
> >> "neurodiversity" community.
> >>
> >> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
> >> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
> >> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
> >> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
> >> autism.
> >>
> >>> From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
> >> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise is
> >> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability, which
> >> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
> >> achievements.
> >>
> >> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
> >> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years ago.
> >>
> >> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that yields
> >> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
> >> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
> >> others for their survival.
> >>
> >> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some steady,
> >> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better diagnostics
> >> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
> >> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
> >> decade ago.
> >>
> >> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
> >> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am not
> >> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
> >>
> >> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never say
> >> another word.
> >>
> >> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
> >> shoes or fall in love.
> >>
> >> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
> >> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
> >> they can't say what or where it is.
> >>
> >> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
> >> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea or
> >> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
> >> kind of "autism" was pretty).
> >>
> >> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of alarms,
> >> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
> >> Interstate.
> >>
> >> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
> >> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
> >>
> >> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
> >> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their
> >> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
> >> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
> >>
> >> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they have
> >> "autism."
> >>
> >> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently diagnosed
> >> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
> >> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with the
> >> most severe or even moderate cases.
> >>
> >> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do not
> >> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
> >> something else.
> >>
> >> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
> >> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
> >> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to "better
> >> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
> >>
> >> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
> >> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things in
> >> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
> >> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
> >>
> >> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
> >> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
> >> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
> >> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune dysfunction,
> >> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
> >> behaviors.
> >>
> >> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
> >> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
> >>
> >> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
> >> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
> >> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
> >>
> >> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
> >> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more likely
> >> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
> >> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
> >> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
> >> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association between
> >> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
> >>
> >> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to communicate.
> >> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
> >> use the term "Native American."
> >>
> >> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and there
> >> is no autism epidemic.
> >>
> > ---------------
> >
> > Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with him.
> >
>
> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does not
> say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether they
> agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.

You're right, but PR grunts like Markey aren't here to "get it," they
are here to "spin it."

[Mark Probert]

PeterB wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>> Vaccine-man wrote:
>>>> Nice read.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
>>>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence of
>>>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
>>>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist that
>>>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
>>>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
>>>>
>>>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my critics
>>>> are 100 percent correct.
>>>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
>>>> epidemic.
>>>>
>>>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
>>>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
>>>> "neurodiversity" community.
>>>>
>>>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
>>>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
>>>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
>>>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
>>>> autism.
>>>>
>>>>> From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
>>>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise is
>>>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability, which
>>>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
>>>> achievements.
>>>>
>>>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
>>>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years ago.
>>>>
>>>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that yields
>>>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
>>>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
>>>> others for their survival.
>>>>
>>>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some steady,
>>>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better diagnostics
>>>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
>>>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
>>>> decade ago.
>>>>
>>>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
>>>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am not
>>>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
>>>>
>>>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never say
>>>> another word.
>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
>>>> shoes or fall in love.
>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
>>>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
>>>> they can't say what or where it is.
>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
>>>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea or
>>>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
>>>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of alarms,
>>>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
>>>> Interstate.
>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
>>>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
>>>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their
>>>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
>>>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
>>>>
>>>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they have
>>>> "autism."
>>>>
>>>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently diagnosed
>>>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
>>>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with the
>>>> most severe or even moderate cases.
>>>>
>>>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do not
>>>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
>>>> something else.
>>>>
>>>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
>>>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
>>>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to "better
>>>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
>>>>
>>>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
>>>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things in
>>>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
>>>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
>>>>
>>>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
>>>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
>>>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
>>>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune dysfunction,
>>>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
>>>> behaviors.
>>>>
>>>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
>>>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
>>>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
>>>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
>>>>
>>>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
>>>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more likely
>>>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
>>>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
>>>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
>>>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association between
>>>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
>>>>
>>>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to communicate.
>>>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
>>>> use the term "Native American."
>>>>
>>>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and there
>>>> is no autism epidemic.
>>>>
>>> ---------------
>>>
>>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with him.
>>>
>> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does not
>> say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether they
>> agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.
>
> You're right, but PR grunts like Markey aren't here to "get it," they
> are here to "spin it."

The only spin is the clue black hole replacing your gray matter.

I am fully aware of the article in the overall context of Kirby's feeble
attempt to avoid having to change his position since California autism
has not decreased.

[PeterB]

Mark Probert wrote:
> PeterB wrote:
> > Mike wrote:
> >> Mark Probert wrote:
> >>> Vaccine-man wrote:
> >>>> Nice read.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
> >>>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence of
> >>>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
> >>>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist that
> >>>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
> >>>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
> >>>>
> >>>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my critics
> >>>> are 100 percent correct.
> >>>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
> >>>> epidemic.
> >>>>
> >>>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
> >>>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
> >>>> "neurodiversity" community.
> >>>>
> >>>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
> >>>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
> >>>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
> >>>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
> >>>> autism.
> >>>>
> >>>>> From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
> >>>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise is
> >>>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability, which
> >>>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
> >>>> achievements.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
> >>>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years ago.
> >>>>
> >>>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that yields
> >>>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
> >>>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
> >>>> others for their survival.
> >>>>
> >>>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some steady,
> >>>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better diagnostics
> >>>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
> >>>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
> >>>> decade ago.
> >>>>
> >>>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
> >>>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am not
> >>>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
> >>>>
> >>>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never say
> >>>> another word.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
> >>>> shoes or fall in love.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
> >>>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
> >>>> they can't say what or where it is.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
> >>>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea or
> >>>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
> >>>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of alarms,
> >>>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
> >>>> Interstate.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
> >>>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
> >>>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their
> >>>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
> >>>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
> >>>>
> >>>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they have
> >>>> "autism."
> >>>>
> >>>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently diagnosed
> >>>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
> >>>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with the
> >>>> most severe or even moderate cases.
> >>>>
> >>>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do not
> >>>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
> >>>> something else.
> >>>>
> >>>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
> >>>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
> >>>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to "better
> >>>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
> >>>>
> >>>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
> >>>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things in
> >>>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
> >>>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
> >>>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
> >>>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
> >>>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune dysfunction,
> >>>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
> >>>> behaviors.
> >>>>
> >>>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
> >>>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
> >>>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
> >>>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
> >>>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more likely
> >>>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
> >>>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
> >>>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
> >>>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association between
> >>>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
> >>>>
> >>>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to communicate.
> >>>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
> >>>> use the term "Native American."
> >>>>
> >>>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and there
> >>>> is no autism epidemic.
> >>>>
> >>> ---------------
> >>>
> >>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with him.
> >>>
> >> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does not
> >> say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether they
> >> agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.
> >
> > You're right, but PR grunts like Markey aren't here to "get it," they
> > are here to "spin it."
>
> The only spin is the clue black hole replacing your gray matter.

The "clue black hole?" Markey, what you are smoking?

> I am fully aware of the article in the overall context of Kirby's feeble
> attempt to avoid having to change his position since California autism
> has not decreased.

Irrelevant to the other poster's observations. But if you keep banging
your keyboard for kibble, maybe one day you'll see a bit of
Shakespeare. Look for the words "My words fly up, my thoughts remain
below: Words without thoughts never to heaven go."

[Sdores]

In line
"PeterB" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Mark Probert wrote:
>> PeterB wrote:
>> > Mike wrote:
>> >> Mark Probert wrote:
>> >>> Vaccine-man wrote:
>> >>>> Nice read.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
>> >>>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
>> >>>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist
>> >>>> that
>> >>>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
>> >>>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my
>> >>>> critics
>> >>>> are 100 percent correct.
>> >>>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
>> >>>> epidemic.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of
>> >>>> adults
>> >>>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
>> >>>> "neurodiversity" community.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
>> >>>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe,
>> >>>> have
>> >>>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
>> >>>> autism.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
>> >>>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise
>> >>>> is
>> >>>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability,
>> >>>> which
>> >>>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
>> >>>> achievements.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
>> >>>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years
>> >>>> ago.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that
>> >>>> yields
>> >>>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
>> >>>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
>> >>>> others for their survival.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some
>> >>>> steady,
>> >>>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better
>> >>>> diagnostics
>> >>>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
>> >>>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
>> >>>> decade ago.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
>> >>>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am
>> >>>> not
>> >>>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never
>> >>>> say
>> >>>> another word.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
>> >>>> shoes or fall in love.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
>> >>>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
>> >>>> they can't say what or where it is.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
>> >>>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea
>> >>>> or
>> >>>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
>> >>>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of
>> >>>> alarms,
>> >>>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
>> >>>> Interstate.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
>> >>>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
>> >>>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with
>> >>>> their
>> >>>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
>> >>>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they
>> >>>> have
>> >>>> "autism."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently
>> >>>> diagnosed
>> >>>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
>> >>>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> most severe or even moderate cases.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do
>> >>>> not
>> >>>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
>> >>>> something else.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
>> >>>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
>> >>>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to
>> >>>> "better
>> >>>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
>> >>>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things
>> >>>> in
>> >>>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
>> >>>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
>> >>>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
>> >>>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
>> >>>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune
>> >>>> dysfunction,
>> >>>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
>> >>>> behaviors.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
>> >>>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
>> >>>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
>> >>>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
>> >>>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more
>> >>>> likely
>> >>>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
>> >>>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
>> >>>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
>> >>>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association
>> >>>> between
>> >>>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to
>> >>>> communicate.
>> >>>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
>> >>>> use the term "Native American."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and
>> >>>> there
>> >>>> is no autism epidemic.
>> >>>>
>> >>> ---------------
>> >>>
>> >>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with
>> >>> him.
>> >>>
>> >> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does
>> >> not
>> >> say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether they
>> >> agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.
>> >
>> > You're right, but PR grunts like Markey aren't here to "get it," they
>> > are here to "spin it."
>>
>> The only spin is the clue black hole replacing your gray matter.
>
> The "clue black hole?" Markey, what you are smoking?

You don't get this? Even my feeble mind does.

>> I am fully aware of the article in the overall context of Kirby's feeble
>> attempt to avoid having to change his position since California autism
>> has not decreased.
>
> Irrelevant to the other poster's observations. But if you keep banging
> your keyboard for kibble, maybe one day you'll see a bit of
> Shakespeare. Look for the words "My words fly up, my thoughts remain
> below: Words without thoughts never to heaven go."
>

[PeterB]

Sdores wrote:
> In line
> "PeterB" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Mark Probert wrote:
> >> PeterB wrote:
> >> > Mike wrote:
> >> >> Mark Probert wrote:
> >> >>> Vaccine-man wrote:
> >> >>>> Nice read.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
> >> >>>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence
> >> >>>> of
> >> >>>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
> >> >>>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist
> >> >>>> that
> >> >>>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
> >> >>>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my
> >> >>>> critics
> >> >>>> are 100 percent correct.
> >> >>>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
> >> >>>> epidemic.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of
> >> >>>> adults
> >> >>>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
> >> >>>> "neurodiversity" community.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor
> >> >>>> a
> >> >>>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
> >> >>>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe,
> >> >>>> have
> >> >>>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
> >> >>>> autism.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
> >> >>>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise
> >> >>>> is
> >> >>>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability,
> >> >>>> which
> >> >>>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
> >> >>>> achievements.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
> >> >>>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years
> >> >>>> ago.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that
> >> >>>> yields
> >> >>>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
> >> >>>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
> >> >>>> others for their survival.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some
> >> >>>> steady,
> >> >>>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better
> >> >>>> diagnostics
> >> >>>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
> >> >>>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
> >> >>>> decade ago.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
> >> >>>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am
> >> >>>> not
> >> >>>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never
> >> >>>> say
> >> >>>> another word.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
> >> >>>> shoes or fall in love.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
> >> >>>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
> >> >>>> they can't say what or where it is.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
> >> >>>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea
> >> >>>> or
> >> >>>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
> >> >>>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of
> >> >>>> alarms,
> >> >>>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
> >> >>>> Interstate.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
> >> >>>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
> >> >>>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with
> >> >>>> their
> >> >>>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
> >> >>>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they
> >> >>>> have
> >> >>>> "autism."
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently
> >> >>>> diagnosed
> >> >>>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
> >> >>>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> most severe or even moderate cases.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do
> >> >>>> not
> >> >>>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
> >> >>>> something else.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
> >> >>>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
> >> >>>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to
> >> >>>> "better
> >> >>>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
> >> >>>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things
> >> >>>> in
> >> >>>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
> >> >>>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
> >> >>>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
> >> >>>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
> >> >>>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune
> >> >>>> dysfunction,
> >> >>>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
> >> >>>> behaviors.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
> >> >>>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
> >> >>>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
> >> >>>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
> >> >>>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more
> >> >>>> likely
> >> >>>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
> >> >>>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
> >> >>>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
> >> >>>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association
> >> >>>> between
> >> >>>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to
> >> >>>> communicate.
> >> >>>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
> >> >>>> use the term "Native American."
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and
> >> >>>> there
> >> >>>> is no autism epidemic.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> ---------------
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with
> >> >>> him.
> >> >>>
> >> >> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does
> >> >> not
> >> >> say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether they
> >> >> agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.
> >> >
> >> > You're right, but PR grunts like Markey aren't here to "get it," they
> >> > are here to "spin it."
> >>
> >> The only spin is the clue black hole replacing your gray matter.
> >
> > The "clue black hole?" Markey, what you are smoking?
>
> You don't get this? Even my feeble mind does.

Don't get what, "susan?"

[Sdores]

Not worth responding to answer. Everyone should be able to see. UM MOM
Susan, PS, Following me?
"PeterB" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Sdores wrote:
>> In line
>> "PeterB" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > Mark Probert wrote:
>> >> PeterB wrote:
>> >> > Mike wrote:
>> >> >> Mark Probert wrote:
>> >> >>> Vaccine-man wrote:
>> >> >>>> Nice read.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
>> >> >>>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book,
>> >> >>>> "Evidence
>> >> >>>> of
>> >> >>>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
>> >> >>>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist
>> >> >>>> that
>> >> >>>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
>> >> >>>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my
>> >> >>>> critics
>> >> >>>> are 100 percent correct.
>> >> >>>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no
>> >> >>>> autism
>> >> >>>> epidemic.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of
>> >> >>>> adults
>> >> >>>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
>> >> >>>> "neurodiversity" community.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease
>> >> >>>> nor
>> >> >>>> a
>> >> >>>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the
>> >> >>>> chance
>> >> >>>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I
>> >> >>>> believe,
>> >> >>>> have
>> >> >>>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high
>> >> >>>> functioning
>> >> >>>> autism.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has
>> >> >>>>> no
>> >> >>>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest
>> >> >>>> otherwise
>> >> >>>> is
>> >> >>>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability,
>> >> >>>> which
>> >> >>>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
>> >> >>>> achievements.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
>> >> >>>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years
>> >> >>>> ago.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that
>> >> >>>> yields
>> >> >>>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
>> >> >>>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence
>> >> >>>> on
>> >> >>>> others for their survival.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some
>> >> >>>> steady,
>> >> >>>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better
>> >> >>>> diagnostics
>> >> >>>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
>> >> >>>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy"
>> >> >>>> a
>> >> >>>> decade ago.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from
>> >> >>>> some
>> >> >>>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am
>> >> >>>> not
>> >> >>>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly,
>> >> >>>> never
>> >> >>>> say
>> >> >>>> another word.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie
>> >> >>>> their
>> >> >>>> shoes or fall in love.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in
>> >> >>>> the
>> >> >>>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal,
>> >> >>>> but
>> >> >>>> they can't say what or where it is.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their
>> >> >>>> inflamed,
>> >> >>>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of
>> >> >>>> diarrhea
>> >> >>>> or
>> >> >>>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said
>> >> >>>> this
>> >> >>>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of
>> >> >>>> alarms,
>> >> >>>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
>> >> >>>> Interstate.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and
>> >> >>>> so
>> >> >>>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall
>> >> >>>> and
>> >> >>>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with
>> >> >>>> their
>> >> >>>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and
>> >> >>>> don't
>> >> >>>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they
>> >> >>>> have
>> >> >>>> "autism."
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently
>> >> >>>> diagnosed
>> >> >>>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest,
>> >> >>>> "high
>> >> >>>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with
>> >> >>>> the
>> >> >>>> most severe or even moderate cases.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids
>> >> >>>> do
>> >> >>>> not
>> >> >>>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling
>> >> >>>> it
>> >> >>>> something else.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
>> >> >>>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are
>> >> >>>> ravaging
>> >> >>>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to
>> >> >>>> "better
>> >> >>>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment
>> >> >>>> over
>> >> >>>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some
>> >> >>>> things
>> >> >>>> in
>> >> >>>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
>> >> >>>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
>> >> >>>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
>> >> >>>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It
>> >> >>>> can
>> >> >>>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune
>> >> >>>> dysfunction,
>> >> >>>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
>> >> >>>> behaviors.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on
>> >> >>>> these
>> >> >>>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like,
>> >> >>>> say,
>> >> >>>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could
>> >> >>>> call
>> >> >>>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
>> >> >>>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more
>> >> >>>> likely
>> >> >>>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
>> >> >>>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore
>> >> >>>> yields
>> >> >>>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
>> >> >>>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association
>> >> >>>> between
>> >> >>>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to
>> >> >>>> communicate.
>> >> >>>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began
>> >> >>>> to
>> >> >>>> use the term "Native American."
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and
>> >> >>>> there
>> >> >>>> is no autism epidemic.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>> ---------------
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree
>> >> >>> with
>> >> >>> him.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does
>> >> >> not
>> >> >> say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether
>> >> >> they
>> >> >> agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.
>> >> >
>> >> > You're right, but PR grunts like Markey aren't here to "get it,"
>> >> > they
>> >> > are here to "spin it."
>> >>
>> >> The only spin is the clue black hole replacing your gray matter.
>> >
>> > The "clue black hole?" Markey, what you are smoking?
>>
>> You don't get this? Even my feeble mind does.
>
> Don't get what, "susan?"
>

[Jan Drew]

"Mark Probert" > wrote in message
news:9itnh.4$2D.0@trndny07...
> Sdores wrote:
>> "Mark Probert" > wrote in message
>> news:Iw8nh.4325$Uf.1028@trndny07...
>>> Vaccine-man wrote:
>>>> Nice read.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>>>>
>>>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
>>>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence of
>>>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
>>>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist that
>>>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
>>>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
>>>>
>>>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my critics
>>>> are 100 percent correct.
>>>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
>>>> epidemic.
>>>>
>>>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
>>>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
>>>> "neurodiversity" community.
>>>>
>>>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
>>>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
>>>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
>>>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
>>>> autism.
>>>>
>>>> >From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
>>>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise is
>>>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability, which
>>>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
>>>> achievements.
>>>>
>>>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
>>>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years ago.
>>>>
>>>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that yields
>>>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
>>>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
>>>> others for their survival.
>>>>
>>>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some steady,
>>>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better diagnostics
>>>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
>>>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
>>>> decade ago.
>>>>
>>>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
>>>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am not
>>>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
>>>>
>>>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never say
>>>> another word.
>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
>>>> shoes or fall in love.
>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
>>>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
>>>> they can't say what or where it is.
>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
>>>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea or
>>>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
>>>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of alarms,
>>>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
>>>> Interstate.
>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
>>>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
>>>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their
>>>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
>>>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
>>>>
>>>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they have
>>>> "autism."
>>>>
>>>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently diagnosed
>>>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
>>>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with the
>>>> most severe or even moderate cases.
>>>>
>>>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do not
>>>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
>>>> something else.
>>>>
>>>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
>>>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
>>>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to "better
>>>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
>>>>
>>>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
>>>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things in
>>>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
>>>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
>>>>
>>>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
>>>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
>>>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
>>>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune dysfunction,
>>>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
>>>> behaviors.
>>>>
>>>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
>>>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
>>>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
>>>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
>>>>
>>>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
>>>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more likely
>>>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
>>>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
>>>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
>>>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association between
>>>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
>>>>
>>>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to communicate.
>>>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
>>>> use the term "Native American."
>>>>
>>>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and there
>>>> is no autism epidemic.
>>>>
>>> ---------------
>>>
>>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with
>>> him.
>>>
>> Mark CNN had an excellent series on Autism a couple of weeks ago. It
>> showed the highs and the lows of Autism for the child and the parents.
>
> What was portrayed is the typical life of parents who have special needs
> kids, regardless of the nature of the disability.
>
> But what
>> was really fascinating is they followed and talked to a family who lives
>> in Miami, they had to move here because where they lived Autism isn't
>> covered by medical because it's not diagnosed as a disease and there
>> wasn't any government or community help there.
>
> They must have lived in an incredibly rural area, since Autism is
> specifically covered under IDEA for early intervention. Even then, the
> school district is responsible for finding and providing appropriate
> services.
>
> However, considering how stupid some district administrators are, they
> were better off moving.
>
> Since they moved down here, a child who
>> didn't speak a word or wouldn't allow to be touched is now going to
>> school with his peers and is having special help from specialist in
>> autism. He has come so far it was amazing to watch the difference in
>> this beautiful shining child. His father still commutes to where he
>> works out of state though which is a total shame but apparently he has
>> time in and needs for personal reasons to stay with them, didn't
>> understand all of this. But anyways, I cried through a lot of this.
>
> I understood it at the time. Without the facts as reported, I won't
> comment. I have seen similar situations before.
>
> They talked to adults with autism too and they
>> were great and you could tell they were independent and yes, they did NOT
>> want to be considered diseases or disabled and I don't blame them. You
>> might be able to find it on CNN News under the Dr's name on their list, I
>> forget his name. Absolutely excellent info. UM MO Susan
>
> There is a lot of good information out there. Just stay away from anyone
> who claims that mercury causes autism.

Like the Environmental Working Group, or the National Autism Association.

http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/thimerosal.php

Like the former FDA senior research scientist Dr. Jill James, now of the
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences

http://www.ewg.org/reports/autism/execsumm.php?gclid=CIaR0PTayokCFQEHGgodmyDMjw

http://www.geocities.com/autism_mercury/faq.htm

http://www.a-champ.org/documents/geier%20Early%20Downward%20Trends%20JAPS%203-1-06.pdf

http://www.laleva.org/eng/2005/02/1991_memo_warned_of_mercury_in_shots.html

http://www.laleva.org/eng/2004/06/study_vaccines_mercury_causes_autismlike_signs_in_ mice.htm

http://www.laleva.org/eng/2004/06/thimerosal_autism_symptoms_in_mice_linked_to_vacci ne_ingredient_study.html

http://www.laleva.org/eng/2004/04/thimerosal_mercury_and_autism_vaccine_inaction_a_s ore_point.html

http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/online/research/index.html

[Mike]

Mark Probert wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>>.............................
>>>
>>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with
>>> him.
>>>
>>
>> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does
>> not say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether
>> they agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.
>
> Mikey, you do not know the politics of Neurodiversity. There are several
> bloggers who are parents of Autistics, and have taken Kirby to task for
> his bull****. And, he is mocking Neurodiversity, which is an attack.
>

A quote:
-----------------------------
Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
"neurodiversity" community.

These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
autism.
-----------------------------

Ok, and what does it have to do with parents, bloggers etc. Nothing.
And where is mocking? You want it to be mocking, that's it.

> Of course, being you, you are incapable of distinguishing a lie from my
> expression of my opinion.
>
> Get a clue.

The clue is that it is very convenient to call one's lies an expression
of an opinion. Liars know this technique, Holocaust deniers being a good
example.

[justme]

Mark Probert wrote:
> justme wrote:

>> By the way, many people that are disabled by conventional standards
>> (e.g. deaf) do not want to be considered disabled. As for these
>> adults, they apparently have Asperger's. They do not represent the
>> majority of autistics who are not independent.
>
> Do you have any verifiable stats on that?

Here is a tidbit from California Dept of Developmental Services
(http://www.dds.ca.gov/FactsStats/pdf/Sept06_QRTTBLS.pdf, p.34)

The number of autistics 18 years and older: 7015.
Of those: 22 years and older: 4994.
Of those: 32 years and older: 1729.
Of those: 32-61 years: 1662.
The number of autistics living independently (all ages): 723.

Apparently most do not live independently.

[Peter Bowditch]

"Jan Drew" > wrote:

>> There is a lot of good information out there. Just stay away from anyone
>> who claims that mercury causes autism.
>
>Like the Environmental Working Group, or the National Autism Association.

Yes, Jan, that's the very sort of organisation that people wanting
good advice should stay away from. Thanks for the heads-up.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

[Mark Probert]

Mike wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
>> Mike wrote:
>>> Mark Probert wrote:
> >>>.............................
>>>>
>>>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with
>>>> him.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does
>>> not say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether
>>> they agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.
>>
>> Mikey, you do not know the politics of Neurodiversity. There are
>> several bloggers who are parents of Autistics, and have taken Kirby to
>> task for his bull****. And, he is mocking Neurodiversity, which is an
>> attack.
>>
>
> A quote:
> -----------------------------
> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
> "neurodiversity" community.
>
> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
> autism.
> -----------------------------
>
> Ok, and what does it have to do with parents, bloggers etc. Nothing.

Mikey, you did not read the words I typed about the politics of
neurodiversity. I have read his writings and the writings of those who
are his target audience, i.e., the Mercury Militia. Sorry if you cannot
read between his lines.

Kirby is at a major crossroads of his writing career, He told people
that if the incidence of Autism did not begin going down by 2007
(originally 2005, but he is a goal post mover), then the alleged link
between thimerosal and Autism is in BIG trouble. Well, the time is now,
and he is preparing for what appears to be the inevitable, i.e., another
moving of the goal posts.

> And where is mocking? You want it to be mocking, that's it.

Actually, No. I would prefer to see the Mercury Militia accept the fact
that there are those parents who accept their autistic children for who
they are and do not subject them to the abuses of cheatlation therapy,
Lupron, and all the other wackiness. AFAIAC, they should get on with
parenting of their child and get the services that they need, e.g.,
special education, respite, etc. for them.

>
>> Of course, being you, you are incapable of distinguishing a lie from
>> my expression of my opinion.
>>
>> Get a clue.
>
> The clue is that it is very convenient to call one's lies an expression
> of an opinion. Liars know this technique, Holocaust deniers being a good
> example.

Holocaust deniers are correctly called Holocaust *Revisionists* because
they are trying to revise history with their "facts" which are nothing
more than lies.

[Mark Probert]

justme wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
>> justme wrote:
>
>>> By the way, many people that are disabled by conventional standards
>>> (e.g. deaf) do not want to be considered disabled. As for these
>>> adults, they apparently have Asperger's. They do not represent the
>>> majority of autistics who are not independent.
>>
>> Do you have any verifiable stats on that?
>
> Here is a tidbit from California Dept of Developmental Services
> (http://www.dds.ca.gov/FactsStats/pdf/Sept06_QRTTBLS.pdf, p.34)
>
> The number of autistics 18 years and older: 7015.
> Of those: 22 years and older: 4994.
> Of those: 32 years and older: 1729.
> Of those: 32-61 years: 1662.
> The number of autistics living independently (all ages): 723.
>
> Apparently most do not live independently.

If one uses those stats without thought, a reasonable conclusion.
However, I think.

Note the age groupings...

The oldest group would correspond to the period of time when Asperger's
etc. was not well diagnosed. Many higher functioning autistics were
incorrectly classified under various systems as "retarded"
"schizophrenic", etc.

I do not believe that what you posted proves your claims.

[Mark Probert]

PeterB wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
>> PeterB wrote:
>>> Mike wrote:
>>>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>>>> Vaccine-man wrote:
>>>>>> Nice read.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
>>>>>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence of
>>>>>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
>>>>>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist that
>>>>>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
>>>>>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my critics
>>>>>> are 100 percent correct.
>>>>>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
>>>>>> epidemic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
>>>>>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
>>>>>> "neurodiversity" community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
>>>>>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
>>>>>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
>>>>>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
>>>>>> autism.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
>>>>>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise is
>>>>>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability, which
>>>>>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
>>>>>> achievements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
>>>>>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that yields
>>>>>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
>>>>>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
>>>>>> others for their survival.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some steady,
>>>>>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better diagnostics
>>>>>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
>>>>>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
>>>>>> decade ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
>>>>>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am not
>>>>>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never say
>>>>>> another word.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
>>>>>> shoes or fall in love.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
>>>>>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
>>>>>> they can't say what or where it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
>>>>>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea or
>>>>>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
>>>>>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of alarms,
>>>>>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
>>>>>> Interstate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
>>>>>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
>>>>>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their
>>>>>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
>>>>>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they have
>>>>>> "autism."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently diagnosed
>>>>>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
>>>>>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with the
>>>>>> most severe or even moderate cases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do not
>>>>>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
>>>>>> something else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
>>>>>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
>>>>>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to "better
>>>>>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
>>>>>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things in
>>>>>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
>>>>>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
>>>>>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
>>>>>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
>>>>>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune dysfunction,
>>>>>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
>>>>>> behaviors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
>>>>>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
>>>>>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
>>>>>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
>>>>>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more likely
>>>>>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
>>>>>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
>>>>>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
>>>>>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association between
>>>>>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to communicate.
>>>>>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
>>>>>> use the term "Native American."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and there
>>>>>> is no autism epidemic.
>>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with him.
>>>>>
>>>> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does not
>>>> say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether they
>>>> agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.
>>> You're right, but PR grunts like Markey aren't here to "get it," they
>>> are here to "spin it."
>> The only spin is the clue black hole replacing your gray matter.
>
> The "clue black hole?" Markey, what you are smoking?

Nope, dope. Whenever someone gives you a clue, it is destroyed just as
matter is destroyed when absorbed by a black hole.

Perfect analogy.

>> I am fully aware of the article in the overall context of Kirby's feeble
>> attempt to avoid having to change his position since California autism
>> has not decreased.
>
> Irrelevant to the other poster's observations. But if you keep banging
> your keyboard for kibble, maybe one day you'll see a bit of
> Shakespeare. Look for the words "My words fly up, my thoughts remain
> below: Words without thoughts never to heaven go."

So, you got an automatic quote machine for Christmas because someone
wanted you help you sound smart. How nice.

[Mark Probert]

Sdores wrote:
> In line
> "PeterB" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>> PeterB wrote:
>>>> Mike wrote:
>>>>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>>>>> Vaccine-man wrote:
>>>>>>> Nice read.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
>>>>>>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
>>>>>>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
>>>>>>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my
>>>>>>> critics
>>>>>>> are 100 percent correct.
>>>>>>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
>>>>>>> epidemic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of
>>>>>>> adults
>>>>>>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
>>>>>>> "neurodiversity" community.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
>>>>>>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe,
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
>>>>>>> autism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
>>>>>>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability,
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
>>>>>>> achievements.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
>>>>>>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years
>>>>>>> ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that
>>>>>>> yields
>>>>>>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
>>>>>>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
>>>>>>> others for their survival.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some
>>>>>>> steady,
>>>>>>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better
>>>>>>> diagnostics
>>>>>>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
>>>>>>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
>>>>>>> decade ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
>>>>>>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never
>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>> another word.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
>>>>>>> shoes or fall in love.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
>>>>>>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
>>>>>>> they can't say what or where it is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
>>>>>>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
>>>>>>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of
>>>>>>> alarms,
>>>>>>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
>>>>>>> Interstate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
>>>>>>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
>>>>>>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
>>>>>>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> "autism."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently
>>>>>>> diagnosed
>>>>>>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
>>>>>>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> most severe or even moderate cases.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
>>>>>>> something else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
>>>>>>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
>>>>>>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to
>>>>>>> "better
>>>>>>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
>>>>>>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
>>>>>>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
>>>>>>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
>>>>>>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
>>>>>>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune
>>>>>>> dysfunction,
>>>>>>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
>>>>>>> behaviors.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
>>>>>>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
>>>>>>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
>>>>>>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
>>>>>>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more
>>>>>>> likely
>>>>>>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
>>>>>>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
>>>>>>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
>>>>>>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association
>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to
>>>>>>> communicate.
>>>>>>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
>>>>>>> use the term "Native American."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> is no autism epidemic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with
>>>>>> him.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does
>>>>> not
>>>>> say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether they
>>>>> agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.
>>>> You're right, but PR grunts like Markey aren't here to "get it," they
>>>> are here to "spin it."
>>> The only spin is the clue black hole replacing your gray matter.
>> The "clue black hole?" Markey, what you are smoking?
>
> You don't get this? Even my feeble mind does.

The analogy was logical and perfect. Two things Petey does not understand.

>>> I am fully aware of the article in the overall context of Kirby's feeble
>>> attempt to avoid having to change his position since California autism
>>> has not decreased.
>> Irrelevant to the other poster's observations. But if you keep banging
>> your keyboard for kibble, maybe one day you'll see a bit of
>> Shakespeare. Look for the words "My words fly up, my thoughts remain
>> below: Words without thoughts never to heaven go."
>>
>
>

[Jan Drew]

"Mark Probert" > wrote in message
news:uURnh.515$3L1.64@trndny03...
> Sdores wrote:
>> In line
>> "PeterB" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>>> PeterB wrote:
>>>>> Mike wrote:
>>>>>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>>>>>> Vaccine-man wrote:
>>>>>>>> Nice read.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
>>>>>>>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
>>>>>>>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
>>>>>>>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my
>>>>>>>> critics
>>>>>>>> are 100 percent correct.
>>>>>>>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
>>>>>>>> epidemic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of
>>>>>>>> adults
>>>>>>>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
>>>>>>>> "neurodiversity" community.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease
>>>>>>>> nor a
>>>>>>>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
>>>>>>>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe,
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
>>>>>>>> autism.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
>>>>>>>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability,
>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
>>>>>>>> achievements.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
>>>>>>>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years
>>>>>>>> ago.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that
>>>>>>>> yields
>>>>>>>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
>>>>>>>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> others for their survival.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some
>>>>>>>> steady,
>>>>>>>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better
>>>>>>>> diagnostics
>>>>>>>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
>>>>>>>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
>>>>>>>> decade ago.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never
>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>> another word.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> shoes or fall in love.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> they can't say what or where it is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
>>>>>>>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of
>>>>>>>> diarrhea or
>>>>>>>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of
>>>>>>>> alarms,
>>>>>>>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
>>>>>>>> Interstate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
>>>>>>>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
>>>>>>>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> "autism."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently
>>>>>>>> diagnosed
>>>>>>>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
>>>>>>>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> most severe or even moderate cases.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
>>>>>>>> something else.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
>>>>>>>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
>>>>>>>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to
>>>>>>>> "better
>>>>>>>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some
>>>>>>>> things in
>>>>>>>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
>>>>>>>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
>>>>>>>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
>>>>>>>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune
>>>>>>>> dysfunction,
>>>>>>>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
>>>>>>>> behaviors.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
>>>>>>>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
>>>>>>>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could
>>>>>>>> call
>>>>>>>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
>>>>>>>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more
>>>>>>>> likely
>>>>>>>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
>>>>>>>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
>>>>>>>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
>>>>>>>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association
>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to
>>>>>>>> communicate.
>>>>>>>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> use the term "Native American."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> is no autism epidemic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with
>>>>>>> him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether they
>>>>>> agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.
>>>>> You're right, but PR grunts like Markey aren't here to "get it," they
>>>>> are here to "spin it."
>>>> The only spin is the clue black hole replacing your gray matter.
>>> The "clue black hole?" Markey, what you are smoking?
>>
>> You don't get this? Even my feeble mind does.
>
> The analogy was logical and perfect. Two things Petey does not understand.

Searched all groups Results 1 - 38 of 38 for " does not understand"
(0.23 seconds)


Searched all groups Results 1 - 73 of 73 for "do not understand"
(0.29 seconds)


>
>>>> I am fully aware of the article in the overall context of Kirby's
>>>> feeble
>>>> attempt to avoid having to change his position since California autism
>>>> has not decreased.
>>> Irrelevant to the other poster's observations. But if you keep banging
>>> your keyboard for kibble, maybe one day you'll see a bit of
>>> Shakespeare. Look for the words "My words fly up, my thoughts remain
>>> below: Words without thoughts never to heaven go."
>>>
>>

[justme]

Mark Probert wrote:
> justme wrote:
>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>> justme wrote:
>>
>>>> By the way, many people that are disabled by conventional standards
>>>> (e.g. deaf) do not want to be considered disabled. As for these
>>>> adults, they apparently have Asperger's. They do not represent the
>>>> majority of autistics who are not independent.
>>>
>>> Do you have any verifiable stats on that?
>>
>> Here is a tidbit from California Dept of Developmental Services
>> (http://www.dds.ca.gov/FactsStats/pdf/Sept06_QRTTBLS.pdf, p.34)
>>
>> The number of autistics 18 years and older: 7015.
>> Of those: 22 years and older: 4994.
>> Of those: 32 years and older: 1729.
>> Of those: 32-61 years: 1662.
>> The number of autistics living independently (all ages): 723.
>>
>> Apparently most do not live independently.
>
> If one uses those stats without thought, a reasonable conclusion.
> However, I think.
>
> Note the age groupings...
>
> The oldest group would correspond to the period of time when Asperger's
> etc. was not well diagnosed. Many higher functioning autistics were
> incorrectly classified under various systems as "retarded"
> "schizophrenic", etc.
>
> I do not believe that what you posted proves your claims.

You are free to believe whatever you prefer.

Your point is unclear. If these numbers indeed do not account for
misclassified autistics in the oldest groups then it bolsters these
claims. These additional autistics classified as retarded are very
unlikely to live independently. If they really exist, that is. So the
percentage of independently living adult autistics is even smaller.

[Mark Probert]

justme wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
>> justme wrote:
>>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>>> justme wrote:
>>>
>>>>> By the way, many people that are disabled by conventional standards
>>>>> (e.g. deaf) do not want to be considered disabled. As for these
>>>>> adults, they apparently have Asperger's. They do not represent the
>>>>> majority of autistics who are not independent.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have any verifiable stats on that?
>>>
>>> Here is a tidbit from California Dept of Developmental Services
>>> (http://www.dds.ca.gov/FactsStats/pdf/Sept06_QRTTBLS.pdf, p.34)
>>>
>>> The number of autistics 18 years and older: 7015.
>>> Of those: 22 years and older: 4994.
>>> Of those: 32 years and older: 1729.
>>> Of those: 32-61 years: 1662.
>>> The number of autistics living independently (all ages): 723.
>>>
>>> Apparently most do not live independently.
>>
>> If one uses those stats without thought, a reasonable conclusion.
>> However, I think.
>>
>> Note the age groupings...
>>
>> The oldest group would correspond to the period of time when
>> Asperger's etc. was not well diagnosed. Many higher functioning
>> autistics were incorrectly classified under various systems as
>> "retarded" "schizophrenic", etc.
>>
>> I do not believe that what you posted proves your claims.
>
> You are free to believe whatever you prefer.
>
> Your point is unclear. If these numbers indeed do not account for
> misclassified autistics in the oldest groups then it bolsters these
> claims.

No it doesn't. It means simply that the use of the numbers as you have
done is worthless.

These additional autistics classified as retarded are very
> unlikely to live independently.

Conjecture.

If they really exist, that is. So the
> percentage of independently living adult autistics is even smaller.

Totally unproven.

[PeterB]

Mark Probert wrote:
> PeterB wrote:
> > Mark Probert wrote:
> >> PeterB wrote:
> >>> Mike wrote:
> >>>> Mark Probert wrote:
> >>>>> Vaccine-man wrote:
> >>>>>> Nice read.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
> >>>>>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence of
> >>>>>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
> >>>>>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist that
> >>>>>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
> >>>>>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my critics
> >>>>>> are 100 percent correct.
> >>>>>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
> >>>>>> epidemic.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
> >>>>>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
> >>>>>> "neurodiversity" community.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
> >>>>>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
> >>>>>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
> >>>>>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
> >>>>>> autism.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
> >>>>>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise is
> >>>>>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability, which
> >>>>>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
> >>>>>> achievements.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
> >>>>>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years ago.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that yields
> >>>>>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
> >>>>>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
> >>>>>> others for their survival.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some steady,
> >>>>>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better diagnostics
> >>>>>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
> >>>>>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
> >>>>>> decade ago.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
> >>>>>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am not
> >>>>>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never say
> >>>>>> another word.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
> >>>>>> shoes or fall in love.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
> >>>>>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
> >>>>>> they can't say what or where it is.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
> >>>>>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea or
> >>>>>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
> >>>>>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of alarms,
> >>>>>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
> >>>>>> Interstate.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
> >>>>>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
> >>>>>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their
> >>>>>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
> >>>>>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they have
> >>>>>> "autism."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently diagnosed
> >>>>>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
> >>>>>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with the
> >>>>>> most severe or even moderate cases.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do not
> >>>>>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
> >>>>>> something else.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
> >>>>>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
> >>>>>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to "better
> >>>>>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
> >>>>>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things in
> >>>>>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
> >>>>>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
> >>>>>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
> >>>>>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
> >>>>>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune dysfunction,
> >>>>>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
> >>>>>> behaviors.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
> >>>>>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
> >>>>>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
> >>>>>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
> >>>>>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more likely
> >>>>>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
> >>>>>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
> >>>>>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
> >>>>>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association between
> >>>>>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to communicate.
> >>>>>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
> >>>>>> use the term "Native American."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and there
> >>>>>> is no autism epidemic.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with him.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does not
> >>>> say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether they
> >>>> agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.
> >>> You're right, but PR grunts like Markey aren't here to "get it," they
> >>> are here to "spin it."
> >> The only spin is the clue black hole replacing your gray matter.
> >
> > The "clue black hole?" Markey, what you are smoking?
>
> Nope, dope. Whenever someone gives you a clue, it is destroyed just as
> matter is destroyed when absorbed by a black hole.

You and Susan are clues falling into my black hole? Ouch.

> Perfect analogy.
>
> >> I am fully aware of the article in the overall context of Kirby's feeble
> >> attempt to avoid having to change his position since California autism
> >> has not decreased.
> >
> > Irrelevant to the other poster's observations. But if you keep banging
> > your keyboard for kibble, maybe one day you'll see a bit of
> > Shakespeare. Look for the words "My words fly up, my thoughts remain
> > below: Words without thoughts never to heaven go."
>
> So, you got an automatic quote machine for Christmas because someone
> wanted you help you sound smart. How nice.

Markey, you screwed up your insult. What have I told you about that?
Go to your room.

[justme]

Mark Probert wrote:
> justme wrote:
>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>> justme wrote:
>>>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>>>> justme wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> By the way, many people that are disabled by conventional
>>>>>> standards (e.g. deaf) do not want to be considered disabled. As
>>>>>> for these adults, they apparently have Asperger's. They do not
>>>>>> represent the majority of autistics who are not independent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have any verifiable stats on that?
>>>>
>>>> Here is a tidbit from California Dept of Developmental Services
>>>> (http://www.dds.ca.gov/FactsStats/pdf/Sept06_QRTTBLS.pdf, p.34)
>>>>
>>>> The number of autistics 18 years and older: 7015.
>>>> Of those: 22 years and older: 4994.
>>>> Of those: 32 years and older: 1729.
>>>> Of those: 32-61 years: 1662.
>>>> The number of autistics living independently (all ages): 723.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently most do not live independently.
>>>
>>> If one uses those stats without thought, a reasonable conclusion.
>>> However, I think.
>>>
>>> Note the age groupings...
>>>
>>> The oldest group would correspond to the period of time when
>>> Asperger's etc. was not well diagnosed. Many higher functioning
>>> autistics were incorrectly classified under various systems as
>>> "retarded" "schizophrenic", etc.
>>>
>>> I do not believe that what you posted proves your claims.
>>
>> You are free to believe whatever you prefer.
>>
>> Your point is unclear. If these numbers indeed do not account for
>> misclassified autistics in the oldest groups then it bolsters these
>> claims.
>
> No it doesn't. It means simply that the use of the numbers as you have
> done is worthless.

Obviously you type before you finish reading.

>
> These additional autistics classified as retarded are very
>> unlikely to live independently.
>
> Conjecture.

Where are you from, the Moon?

By the way it seems there is no statistics you would accept. Why bother
asking for it? And can you present some data yourself instead of
speculating? Probably not.

>
> If they really exist, that is. So the
>> percentage of independently living adult autistics is even smaller.
>
> Totally unproven.

Let's see. According to California DDS adult autistics living
independently are a small minority among all adult autistics, 723 or
less out of about 5000. Now it is alleged that it is not 5000, it is
more. And most of them live independently. And there are so many of them
that the independently living are not in fact a minority. That is, at
least 3600, otherwise they would still be a minority (3600+700=4300,
this is 50% of 5000+3600=8600). And they are missing from these numbers
because, you see, in the old days autism was not well understood, so
they were misclassified as retarded. And it was mostly high-functioning
autistics who were misdiagnosed (as retarded etc), those who could live
independently. The low functioning were properly diagnosed, only high
functioning autism was not well understood. There are no or very few
missing low-functional autistics.

This is obvious nonsense. And if you do not understand it then it is
your problem.

Before I rest my case for the readers, one more thing. These high
functioning autistic adults from CNN program (or alleged CNN program
because I cannot find transcript) were classified as autistic. So much
for erroneous classification in the old days.

[PeterB]

justme wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
> > justme wrote:
> >> Mark Probert wrote:
> >>> justme wrote:
> >>>> Mark Probert wrote:
> >>>>> justme wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> By the way, many people that are disabled by conventional
> >>>>>> standards (e.g. deaf) do not want to be considered disabled. As
> >>>>>> for these adults, they apparently have Asperger's. They do not
> >>>>>> represent the majority of autistics who are not independent.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you have any verifiable stats on that?
> >>>>
> >>>> Here is a tidbit from California Dept of Developmental Services
> >>>> (http://www.dds.ca.gov/FactsStats/pdf/Sept06_QRTTBLS.pdf, p.34)
> >>>>
> >>>> The number of autistics 18 years and older: 7015.
> >>>> Of those: 22 years and older: 4994.
> >>>> Of those: 32 years and older: 1729.
> >>>> Of those: 32-61 years: 1662.
> >>>> The number of autistics living independently (all ages): 723.
> >>>>
> >>>> Apparently most do not live independently.
> >>>
> >>> If one uses those stats without thought, a reasonable conclusion.
> >>> However, I think.
> >>>
> >>> Note the age groupings...
> >>>
> >>> The oldest group would correspond to the period of time when
> >>> Asperger's etc. was not well diagnosed. Many higher functioning
> >>> autistics were incorrectly classified under various systems as
> >>> "retarded" "schizophrenic", etc.
> >>>
> >>> I do not believe that what you posted proves your claims.
> >>
> >> You are free to believe whatever you prefer.
> >>
> >> Your point is unclear. If these numbers indeed do not account for
> >> misclassified autistics in the oldest groups then it bolsters these
> >> claims.
> >
> > No it doesn't. It means simply that the use of the numbers as you have
> > done is worthless.
>
> Obviously you type before you finish reading.
>
> >
> > These additional autistics classified as retarded are very
> >> unlikely to live independently.
> >
> > Conjecture.
>
> Where are you from, the Moon?
>
> By the way it seems there is no statistics you would accept. Why bother
> asking for it? And can you present some data yourself instead of
> speculating? Probably not.
>
> >
> > If they really exist, that is. So the
> >> percentage of independently living adult autistics is even smaller.
> >
> > Totally unproven.
>
> Let's see. According to California DDS adult autistics living
> independently are a small minority among all adult autistics, 723 or
> less out of about 5000. Now it is alleged that it is not 5000, it is
> more. And most of them live independently. And there are so many of them
> that the independently living are not in fact a minority. That is, at
> least 3600, otherwise they would still be a minority (3600+700=4300,
> this is 50% of 5000+3600=8600). And they are missing from these numbers
> because, you see, in the old days autism was not well understood, so
> they were misclassified as retarded. And it was mostly high-functioning
> autistics who were misdiagnosed (as retarded etc), those who could live
> independently. The low functioning were properly diagnosed, only high
> functioning autism was not well understood. There are no or very few
> missing low-functional autistics.
>
> This is obvious nonsense. And if you do not understand it then it is
> your problem.
>
> Before I rest my case for the readers, one more thing. These high
> functioning autistic adults from CNN program (or alleged CNN program
> because I cannot find transcript) were classified as autistic. So much
> for erroneous classification in the old days.

Good analysis. Misdiagnosis was never much of an issue with regard to
this phenomenon, despite the progressive diagnostic later. And no,
Markey's not from the moon. He's a PR grunt whose tree-slapping on
behalf of the drug makers is an effort at damage control. What you may
or may not know is that they are here distorting the facts every day of
the year. If you really want to help the public, consider becoming a
"fact broadcaster" on mha and related newsgroups, maybe a couple of
days a week. If you're doing this already, my apologies (I'm terrible
when it comes to screen names.)

PeterB

[Mark Probert]

PeterB wrote:
> justme wrote:
>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>> justme wrote:
>>>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>>>> justme wrote:
>>>>>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>>>>>> justme wrote:
>>>>>>>> By the way, many people that are disabled by conventional
>>>>>>>> standards (e.g. deaf) do not want to be considered disabled. As
>>>>>>>> for these adults, they apparently have Asperger's. They do not
>>>>>>>> represent the majority of autistics who are not independent.
>>>>>>> Do you have any verifiable stats on that?
>>>>>> Here is a tidbit from California Dept of Developmental Services
>>>>>> (http://www.dds.ca.gov/FactsStats/pdf/Sept06_QRTTBLS.pdf, p.34)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The number of autistics 18 years and older: 7015.
>>>>>> Of those: 22 years and older: 4994.
>>>>>> Of those: 32 years and older: 1729.
>>>>>> Of those: 32-61 years: 1662.
>>>>>> The number of autistics living independently (all ages): 723.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently most do not live independently.
>>>>> If one uses those stats without thought, a reasonable conclusion.
>>>>> However, I think.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note the age groupings...
>>>>>
>>>>> The oldest group would correspond to the period of time when
>>>>> Asperger's etc. was not well diagnosed. Many higher functioning
>>>>> autistics were incorrectly classified under various systems as
>>>>> "retarded" "schizophrenic", etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not believe that what you posted proves your claims.
>>>> You are free to believe whatever you prefer.
>>>>
>>>> Your point is unclear. If these numbers indeed do not account for
>>>> misclassified autistics in the oldest groups then it bolsters these
>>>> claims.
>>> No it doesn't. It means simply that the use of the numbers as you have
>>> done is worthless.
>> Obviously you type before you finish reading.
>>
>>> These additional autistics classified as retarded are very
>>>> unlikely to live independently.
>>> Conjecture.
>> Where are you from, the Moon?
>>
>> By the way it seems there is no statistics you would accept. Why bother
>> asking for it? And can you present some data yourself instead of
>> speculating? Probably not.
>>
>>> If they really exist, that is. So the
>>>> percentage of independently living adult autistics is even smaller.
>>> Totally unproven.
>> Let's see. According to California DDS adult autistics living
>> independently are a small minority among all adult autistics, 723 or
>> less out of about 5000. Now it is alleged that it is not 5000, it is
>> more. And most of them live independently. And there are so many of them
>> that the independently living are not in fact a minority. That is, at
>> least 3600, otherwise they would still be a minority (3600+700=4300,
>> this is 50% of 5000+3600=8600). And they are missing from these numbers
>> because, you see, in the old days autism was not well understood, so
>> they were misclassified as retarded. And it was mostly high-functioning
>> autistics who were misdiagnosed (as retarded etc), those who could live
>> independently. The low functioning were properly diagnosed, only high
>> functioning autism was not well understood. There are no or very few
>> missing low-functional autistics.
>>
>> This is obvious nonsense. And if you do not understand it then it is
>> your problem.
>>
>> Before I rest my case for the readers, one more thing. These high
>> functioning autistic adults from CNN program (or alleged CNN program
>> because I cannot find transcript) were classified as autistic. So much
>> for erroneous classification in the old days.
>
> Good analysis. Misdiagnosis was never much of an issue with regard to
> this phenomenon, despite the progressive diagnostic later. And no,
> Markey's not from the moon. He's a PR grunt whose tree-slapping on
> behalf of the drug makers is an effort at damage control. What you may
> or may not know is that they are here distorting the facts every day of
> the year. If you really want to help the public, consider becoming a
> "fact broadcaster" on mha and related newsgroups, maybe a couple of
> days a week. If you're doing this already, my apologies (I'm terrible
> when it comes to screen names.)

Petey, you never miss a chance to prove you are an asshole.

[Mark Probert]

PeterB wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
>> PeterB wrote:
>>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>>> PeterB wrote:
>>>>> Mike wrote:
>>>>>> Mark Probert wrote:
>>>>>>> Vaccine-man wrote:
>>>>>>>> Nice read.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/there-is-no-autism-epidem_b_37647.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is No Autism Epidemic (68 comments )
>>>>>>>> It's been nearly two years since the release of my book, "Evidence of
>>>>>>>> Harm, Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic - A Medical
>>>>>>>> Controversy," and I continue to be vilified by critics who insist that
>>>>>>>> mercury does not cause autism, that autism is a stable genetic
>>>>>>>> condition, and that it cannot be an "epidemic."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am going to declare a New Year's truce, and announce that my critics
>>>>>>>> are 100 percent correct.
>>>>>>>> This year, I hope we can ALL agree on one thing: There is no autism
>>>>>>>> epidemic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Among my most spirited and articulate detractors is a group of adults
>>>>>>>> with autism who belong to a movement that refers to itself as the
>>>>>>>> "neurodiversity" community.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These adults argue passionately that autism is neither a disease nor a
>>>>>>>> disorder, but rather a natural and special variation of the chance
>>>>>>>> genetic imprint left upon human behavior. Most of them, I believe, have
>>>>>>>> what science calls "Asperger's Syndrome," or very high functioning
>>>>>>>> autism.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From their eloquent and well reasoned point of view, autism has no
>>>>>>>> "cause," and it certainly requires no "cure." To suggest otherwise is
>>>>>>>> to brand these adults with the stigma of disease and disability, which
>>>>>>>> is patently absurd given their educational and intellectual
>>>>>>>> achievements.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's like saying that left-handers or gays are deviant and need
>>>>>>>> treatment - something that reasonable people stopped doing years ago.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So maybe autism really is just an odd genetic peculiarity that yields
>>>>>>>> atypical people whose own set of talents and gifts can lead to
>>>>>>>> perfectly happy and fulfilled lives, with little or no dependence on
>>>>>>>> others for their survival.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If that's the case, then autism has always been with us at some steady,
>>>>>>>> but largely overlooked rate. Growing awareness and better diagnostics
>>>>>>>> have certainly helped us identify and count more people with the
>>>>>>>> condition, who might have been mislabeled as "quirky" or "nerdy" a
>>>>>>>> decade ago.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But if that's autism, then the kids that I have met suffer from some
>>>>>>>> other condition entirely. When I talk about "curing" autism, I am not
>>>>>>>> talking about curing the "neurodiverse."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am talking about kids who begin talking and then, suddenly, never say
>>>>>>>> another word.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who may never learn to read, write, tie their
>>>>>>>> shoes or fall in love.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who sometimes wail in torture at three in the
>>>>>>>> morning because something inside them hurts like a burning coal, but
>>>>>>>> they can't say what or where it is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who can barely keep food in their inflamed,
>>>>>>>> distressed guts, and when they do, it winds up in rivers of diarrhea or
>>>>>>>> swirls of feces spread on a favorite carpet or pet (no one said this
>>>>>>>> kind of "autism" was pretty).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who escape from their home in a blaze of alarms,
>>>>>>>> only to be found hours later, freezing, alone and wandering the
>>>>>>>> Interstate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who have bitten their mother so hard and so
>>>>>>>> often, they are on a first name basis at the emergency room.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about kids who spin like fireworks until they fall and
>>>>>>>> crack their heads, kids who will play with a pencil but not with their
>>>>>>>> sister, kids who stare at nothing and scream at everything and don't
>>>>>>>> even realize it when their dad comes home from work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These are the kids I want to see cured. And I don't believe they have
>>>>>>>> "autism."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scientists tell us that 1-in-104 American boys are currently diagnosed
>>>>>>>> with some form of autism spectrum disorder. But the mildest, "high
>>>>>>>> functioning" forms of autism have seemingly little in common with the
>>>>>>>> most severe or even moderate cases.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My hunch (and yes, that is all it is) is that most of these kids do not
>>>>>>>> have "autism" at all, and it's probably time we started calling it
>>>>>>>> something else.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> American kids are in huge trouble. One in six has a learning
>>>>>>>> disability. Asthma, diabetes, allergies and arthritis are ravaging
>>>>>>>> their bodies in growing numbers. And little of this is due to "better
>>>>>>>> diagnostics" or "greater awareness."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It can only be attributed to radical changes in our environment over
>>>>>>>> the last 10-20 years. There is something, or more likely some things in
>>>>>>>> our modern air, water, food and drugs that are making genetically
>>>>>>>> susceptible children sick, and we need to find out what they are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mercury remains a logical candidate for contributing to "autism
>>>>>>>> spectrum disorders," either alone or in combination with other
>>>>>>>> environmental insults. Mercury exposure can kill brain cells. It can
>>>>>>>> cause loss of speech and eye contact, digestive and immune dysfunction,
>>>>>>>> social withdrawal and anxiety, and repetitive and self-injurious
>>>>>>>> behaviors.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So maybe we should leave the autistics in peace and focus on these
>>>>>>>> environmentally toxic kids and what it is that ails them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe what these kids have is not autism, but something like, say,
>>>>>>>> "Environmentally-acquired Neuroimmune Disorder," which we could call
>>>>>>>> E.N.D. (Great slogan: "Let's End E.N.D.).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe that would explain why a recent CDC-funded study of the San
>>>>>>>> Francisco Bay Area showed that kids with "autism" were 50% more likely
>>>>>>>> to be born in neighborhoods with high levels of airborne toxins,
>>>>>>>> especially mercury. If a second study underway in Baltimore yields
>>>>>>>> similar data, it will be that much harder to defend the "better
>>>>>>>> diagnosis" argument, (other studies have shown an association between
>>>>>>>> autism rates and proximity to coal-fired power plants).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So maybe what we have here is just a semantic failure to communicate.
>>>>>>>> Columbus thought he had met "Indians," and we only recently began to
>>>>>>>> use the term "Native American."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Columbus was not in the Indies, mercury doesn't cause autism, and there
>>>>>>>> is no autism epidemic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine that, he is attacking parents of Autistics who disagree with him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another lie from Mark P. Actually, even two lies. First, Kirby does not
>>>>>> say anything about parents of autistics in the article (whether they
>>>>>> agree with him or not). Second, he is not attacking anybody.
>>>>> You're right, but PR grunts like Markey aren't here to "get it," they
>>>>> are here to "spin it."
>>>> The only spin is the clue black hole replacing your gray matter.
>>> The "clue black hole?" Markey, what you are smoking?
>> Nope, dope. Whenever someone gives you a clue, it is destroyed just as
>> matter is destroyed when absorbed by a black hole.
>
> You and Susan are clues falling into my black hole? Ouch.
>
>> Perfect analogy.
>>
>>>> I am fully aware of the article in the overall context of Kirby's feeble
>>>> attempt to avoid having to change his position since California autism
>>>> has not decreased.
>>> Irrelevant to the other poster's observations. But if you keep banging
>>> your keyboard for kibble, maybe one day you'll see a bit of
>>> Shakespeare. Look for the words "My words fly up, my thoughts remain
>>> below: Words without thoughts never to heaven go."
>> So, you got an automatic quote machine for Christmas because someone
>> wanted you help you sound smart. How nice.
>
> Markey, you screwed up your insult. What have I told you about that?

Not much.

> Go to your room.

I like lots of room. Perhaps your cranial cavity will do since I am not
in Arizona.