Kane and Dan Sullivan are Saboteurs [Archive]

0:->

January 15th 07, 12:18 AM

Greegor wrote:
> alt.support.child-protective-services
>
> Kane (Donald L. Fisher former Oregon caseworker) wrote
>> And how many times have you stomped your foot and
>> simply repeated this without any proof offered?
>
> It was a combination of a LOT of circumstantial evidence

Yes, that old "a lot," of something. We know.

> and a you painted yourself into a logical corner.

Really?

Why would I do that?

> Donald L. Fisher posted the same kind of Megalomaniac crap you do.

He did? Where?

> Strikingly similar comments and various interests.
> A LOT of self-aggrandizement.
> You said you used Don's agency computer workstation.

Yes I did. A the time I did not know it was his, though I knew him from
sitting at the table with him in kinship placement conferences. I've
pointed this out before.

> You made comments about your "moral or ethical"
> justifications for telling lies about your ID.

Yes, that is correct, and I said that, not Don Fisher.

> You said you had set up Donald Fisher as a "false trail".

Not really.

> But you claimed you are friendly with Donald Fisher.

Well, yes and no. After all, he is or was a CPS or state worker of some
kind.

> Why would you "set up" one of your friends to catch
> blowback from people you deliberately anger?

Didn't call him a friend. Lots of people I have acquaintance with are
out there in the world.

> The simple answer is you would not "set up" a friend.

Well, you have to prove I considered him a friend. I might, or I might
not, depending on the circumstances.

> The capper was when you claimed that Michael had
> physically walked into your neighborhood and was photographed.

Oh?

> The same Michael who was absolutely certain you are Donald Fisher.

Why would my certainty and my taking pics of him have anything to do
with each other?

He could come to MY neighborhood and not Don Fisher's, isn't that correct?

I have one.

> If Michael had you all wrong he couldn't have been in your
> neighborhood.

He wouldn't have me ALL wrong, just the Don Fisher part.

> You publicly told a story of how you live in a high security
> neighborhood for security VIP's.

I don't recall it's VIP. Just retired and active LE, former military.

> If true you were revealing
> the special security

What security did I reveal? That we watch out for each other. Biiiig
secret, eh?

> for a whole COMMUNITY of "at risk" people.
> How smart would THAT be?

Gosh, you tell me, given the death threats.

> Certainly this had to be one of those "ethical or moral" lies you
> justified.

Might be, might not.

You have yet, I notice, to answer the simple question, would you tell
the truth about someone, if asked, and you knew it would put that person
at risk of their physical safety and life?

Care to answer it now?

Please do.

> Let's face it Don, you got CARRIED AWAY with your duck blind of
> anonymity.

That remains to be seen. And the name is Kane, thanks.

> You posted gratuitous public profanity for over a year and bragged
> about it!

And that proves I'm Don Fisher how again?

> You attempted to publicly abuse various opponents you decided were
> opportune targets.

"Abuse?" You feel abused?

How about the kids, Greg? The ones beaten and then the perp defended in
these newsgroups with concern over his 'constitutional rights."

Especially considering he confessed and was proud of the bloody beating
he gave to a girl. And was on probation for that beating when he was
charged for the next set of beatings...where again he and his
congregation admitted to them and defending them on biblical grounds.

Not "spankings" Greg. BEATINGS with objects. Calling the children filthy
names, even prostitute ... a 12 year old little girl, while he beat her.

You defend the person that defended such going on as protected by the
Constitution. I didn't. Thus I swore. And likely will again at such
sickness.

Do you think the defender of that man should get an award for morals?

> You and your buddy Dan Sullivan tried to POSE as Family Rights
> advocates

Pose? Chuck, Betty, lostintranslation, firemonkey, and many more that
Dan helped ( and I provided a bit of consultation on tactical issues )
that got their children back likely wouldn't agree with you.

How many families have you helped get out from under CPS, Greg?

I've seen you bill yourself as a family rights advocate.

Go ahead, line them up, have them post here.

> and tried to float ""advice"" to parents that they should submit to
> groundless
> violations of their Constitutional rights.

You are now simply blatantly lying.

Should the need to use violation of their Constitutional rights as a
defense arise I'd be quicker than YOU to recognize it and recommend it.

I simply don't recommend that it be the ONLY defense.

It's appropriate at Trial, not at investigation.

You know what a cop will tell you if you complain he's unfairly
ticketing you, right? "You'll have your day in court."

That's why, Greg, rather than ranting and screaming at the worker and or
the cop at your door about your "rights" I suggest you follow the advice
of many besides Dan and I. Make a simple quiet declarative statement of
your unwillingness to volunteer to entry, step aside, keep track, and
hopefully have your attorney on the phone.

Problem is, as I have stated, all this blather about stopping them at
the door is lost in this newsgroup, and on support sites, because by the
time someone find this place, they have already long past the point of
entry. They are deeply in the system.

> This is a rotten way for
> you to help out the Child Protection agencies you actively LOBBY for.

It's rotten of you to lie about it. And you are now equating me with
Doug on this issue. He and I agree essentially on some of the issues of
what is wrong with CPS. I point them our, or admit to them when they are
accurate appraisals of CPS, Greg.

I don't lobby for CPS. Or any other government agency. If you think I
do, you can look up lobbyists for any state you think I might be doing
it for, and get the listing back to me right here.

Possibly you want to drop the stupid sounding appeal to emotions bound
up in the word choice of 'lobby.'

Do I argue in favor of understanding the facts concerning their
operations and practices, rather than wild ranting hyperbole that will
get parents the loss of their children? Yes, that is what I argue.

Learn the facts. KNOW how CPS actually operates in your state at ground
level. Know the court system.

We can rant 24/7 about what is "wrong" with any system. It does NOT lend
much to understanding and defeating it however. And most certainly gets
in the way of well considered study and thought on how to use the facts
as tactical tools for freeing families and children.

In fact I'm going to tell you a little "system" secret right now.

Every antiCPS group is very likely to have started with at least ONE
family in the mix being mistreated in some way by CPS. I've never denied
that or I wouldn't be here helping people, and helping Dan to help
people, free themselves of CPS.

What happens all to quickly is in the wonderful excitement of agreeing
with each other on what is 'wrong' with CPS, they get arrested at that
level, just as a child's development can be arrested in the early years,
as you seem to have suffered.

They get so caught up that they focus on it, they open their website
index page with a long litany of "wrongs" about CPS, forgetting that
everyone already KNOWS most of it, and unless it has within it the
factual information about day to day operational practices that lend
themselves to tactical intelligence for fighting CPS, it's a useless and
distracting exercise.

Whenever I helped Kin with their campaign to foster or adopt their
relatives to keep them in the family, I KNEW they came to me with a
nasty litany of "bad CPS" actions they needed to rant about.

I'd even get a few of them together in a single group, and I'd tell them
that we would meet again, and we would never again do what we were going
to for that ONE meeting.

We were going to beat the **** out of CPS, workers, supervisors, the
governor, whoever and whatever they thought contributed to their
concerned, pains, sense of loss, etc. Even their own relatives that lost
their children, if they wished.

Let me tell you it was a rousing hour or three now and then.

They had to agree with me that ANY such criticism in the future would be
kept OUT of their planning and actions, because we had REAL work to do,
not bull**** whining and complaining that de-focuses from the task at hand.

And family after family that stuck to their promise did as I suggested.
They LEARNED casework practice as it's actually DONE. In their state.

IN the district they lived in.

My 30 years of experience studying CPS from the time I was a work study
student employee to the time these folks met me paid off for them. Their
delusions about CPS, coming out of their confusion and pain, and simple
understandable ignorance were washed away.

The kicked ass, and got the kids. And the funding. And the family stayed
together.

> THESE are the reasons you are so terrified of being identified.

I am not 'terrified.' I'm rational and businesslike just as I am with
beating CPS, and helping others to do so.

I know my options. I've studied you assholes just as I did CPS for 30
years.

My concerns have everything to do with my family, as I've stated
repeatedly, and you have attempted to defy, and I thus hold you as one
that would put me and mine at physical risk.

You need to actually SHOW where my advice has harmed families, or a
family, Greg, to credibly carry on in such an argument.

You cannot. Because it hasn't happened.

And there are posters here that have posted their thanks to me for my
help...and that I seemed to be able to predict the actions of
caseworkers before they even showed up.

You've read that, and instead of getting the point, you have simply lied
and attacked the person, claiming they were a sock.....after YOU carried
on months and months of attacks, and even when so far as to
geographically locate them.

You're a case, kiddo. A real case.

And stupid to boot.

0:-]

0:->

January 15th 07, 04:37 AM

.... when in fact Greg and crew have given the most dangerous kinds of
advice to families, have NEVER helped a single family recover their
children or escape CPS clutches.

Their envy, their personally motivated, because of their own failures,
deep hatred of Kane and Dan, is obvious in this and many other posts
from them.

Rather than learn, rather than accept success, they claim it either
didn't happen, or isn't 'really' success.

Yet, those families that come here discussing their own use of tactics
typical to Kane and Dan's advice seem quite happy indeed to have their
children back.

You the reader, decide for yourself which is more credible, these
envious failures, or the positive winning attitude and strategies that
Dan, Kane, and others here who have won against CPS offer.

Greegor, you can't win with lying. These folks and newcomers are not
going to be defrauded by you and your cronies.

It's obvious that you and they do everything you can to steer people
away from help here, and to scare them into doing dangerous things, or
away from this newsgroup. You even did it to Linda's FightCPS, now she
has the unenviable task of trying to clean up a mess YOU helped create
there.

For all the criticisms I have of FightCPS and it's format, I value that
it is there as a forum for discussion and support. Now it's a damn mess
because of you and your cronies. And people like you ...

.... loser focused failures that wish to pull everyone down with them.

How sad for her, and how sad for those that counted on support from there.

I hope she kicks butt and cleans it up soon. The sooner the more
credible the forum will be. It can recover if she kicks your stupid butt
out along with those that betrayed her trust.

0:->

Greegor wrote:
> alt.support.child-protective-services
>
> Kane (Donald L. Fisher former Oregon caseworker) wrote
>> And how many times have you stomped your foot and
>> simply repeated this without any proof offered?
>
> It was a combination of a LOT of circumstantial evidence
> and a you painted yourself into a logical corner.
>
> Donald L. Fisher posted the same kind of Megalomaniac crap you do.
> Strikingly similar comments and various interests.
> A LOT of self-aggrandizement.
> You said you used Don's agency computer workstation.
> You made comments about your "moral or ethical"
> justifications for telling lies about your ID.
> You said you had set up Donald Fisher as a "false trail".
> But you claimed you are friendly with Donald Fisher.
> Why would you "set up" one of your friends to catch
> blowback from people you deliberately anger?
> The simple answer is you would not "set up" a friend.
>
> The capper was when you claimed that Michael had
> physically walked into your neighborhood and was photographed.
> The same Michael who was absolutely certain you are Donald Fisher.
> If Michael had you all wrong he couldn't have been in your
> neighborhood.
>
> You publicly told a story of how you live in a high security
> neighborhood for security VIP's. If true you were revealing
> the special security for a whole COMMUNITY of "at risk" people.
> How smart would THAT be?
>
> Certainly this had to be one of those "ethical or moral" lies you
> justified.
>
> Let's face it Don, you got CARRIED AWAY with your duck blind of
> anonymity.
> You posted gratuitous public profanity for over a year and bragged
> about it!
> You attempted to publicly abuse various opponents you decided were
> opportune targets.
> You and your buddy Dan Sullivan tried to POSE as Family Rights
> advocates
> and tried to float ""advice"" to parents that they should submit to
> groundless
> violations of their Constitutional rights. This is a rotten way for
> you to
> help out the Child Protection agencies you actively LOBBY for.
>
> THESE are the reasons you are so terrified of being identified.
>

Doan

January 15th 07, 05:25 AM

What does this have to do with aps?

Doan

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007, 0:-> wrote:

> ... when in fact Greg and crew have given the most dangerous kinds of
> advice to families, have NEVER helped a single family recover their
> children or escape CPS clutches.
>
> Their envy, their personally motivated, because of their own failures,
> deep hatred of Kane and Dan, is obvious in this and many other posts
> from them.
>
> Rather than learn, rather than accept success, they claim it either
> didn't happen, or isn't 'really' success.
>
> Yet, those families that come here discussing their own use of tactics
> typical to Kane and Dan's advice seem quite happy indeed to have their
> children back.
>
> You the reader, decide for yourself which is more credible, these
> envious failures, or the positive winning attitude and strategies that
> Dan, Kane, and others here who have won against CPS offer.
>
> Greegor, you can't win with lying. These folks and newcomers are not
> going to be defrauded by you and your cronies.
>
> It's obvious that you and they do everything you can to steer people
> away from help here, and to scare them into doing dangerous things, or
> away from this newsgroup. You even did it to Linda's FightCPS, now she
> has the unenviable task of trying to clean up a mess YOU helped create
> there.
>
> For all the criticisms I have of FightCPS and it's format, I value that
> it is there as a forum for discussion and support. Now it's a damn mess
> because of you and your cronies. And people like you ...
>
> ... loser focused failures that wish to pull everyone down with them.
>
> How sad for her, and how sad for those that counted on support from there.
>
> I hope she kicks butt and cleans it up soon. The sooner the more
> credible the forum will be. It can recover if she kicks your stupid butt
> out along with those that betrayed her trust.
>
> 0:->
>
>
>
>
> Greegor wrote:
> > alt.support.child-protective-services
> >
> > Kane (Donald L. Fisher former Oregon caseworker) wrote
> >> And how many times have you stomped your foot and
> >> simply repeated this without any proof offered?
> >
> > It was a combination of a LOT of circumstantial evidence
> > and a you painted yourself into a logical corner.
> >
> > Donald L. Fisher posted the same kind of Megalomaniac crap you do.
> > Strikingly similar comments and various interests.
> > A LOT of self-aggrandizement.
> > You said you used Don's agency computer workstation.
> > You made comments about your "moral or ethical"
> > justifications for telling lies about your ID.
> > You said you had set up Donald Fisher as a "false trail".
> > But you claimed you are friendly with Donald Fisher.
> > Why would you "set up" one of your friends to catch
> > blowback from people you deliberately anger?
> > The simple answer is you would not "set up" a friend.
> >
> > The capper was when you claimed that Michael had
> > physically walked into your neighborhood and was photographed.
> > The same Michael who was absolutely certain you are Donald Fisher.
> > If Michael had you all wrong he couldn't have been in your
> > neighborhood.
> >
> > You publicly told a story of how you live in a high security
> > neighborhood for security VIP's. If true you were revealing
> > the special security for a whole COMMUNITY of "at risk" people.
> > How smart would THAT be?
> >
> > Certainly this had to be one of those "ethical or moral" lies you
> > justified.
> >
> > Let's face it Don, you got CARRIED AWAY with your duck blind of
> > anonymity.
> > You posted gratuitous public profanity for over a year and bragged
> > about it!
> > You attempted to publicly abuse various opponents you decided were
> > opportune targets.
> > You and your buddy Dan Sullivan tried to POSE as Family Rights
> > advocates
> > and tried to float ""advice"" to parents that they should submit to
> > groundless
> > violations of their Constitutional rights. This is a rotten way for
> > you to
> > help out the Child Protection agencies you actively LOBBY for.
> >
> > THESE are the reasons you are so terrified of being identified.
> >
>

krp

January 15th 07, 01:29 PM

"Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
ups.com...

>> You and your buddy Dan Sullivan tried to POSE as Family Rightsadvocates
>> and tried to float ""advice"" to parents that they should submit to
>> groundless
>> violations of their Constitutional rights.

> Which groundless violations of their Constitutional rights?

Intrusion into the family. Of basic rights provided in the 4th 5th, 6th
amendments to the Consitution and sometimes the 1st Amendment. Of siezing
the children of the people without compelling cause. The right of a parent
to the sancitity of their home and family (children) which has been
repeatedly been found to be the LOST fundamental liberty interest the
Constitution protects.

> A parenting class to demonstrate cooperation and good intentions to give
> the Judge some reason for returning the family's children from
> foster care?

Sure if this were Naxi Germany or Stalin's Russia, or Castro's Cuba.

> A urine analysis to disprove an allegation of drug use?

Absent any proof of such drug use? Do we live in a nation where we must
pee in a cup on command? Is that what you want to suggest Dan? That we give
license to little Gestapo agents over EVERY aspect of our lives? That we
give free reign over people with almost NO training or experience to come in
and dictate how we live and what we believe? Even religion? What do they do
if they are Mormons or JW's and they encounter a case worker who rigidly
believes that those religions are Cults and they should NOT be allowed to
have children? One who doesn't like Jews, especially Hasidic Jews? What of
a case worker who doesn't like somebody in Wicca? (Witchcraft) One who feels
the solstice ritual of a naked dance in the woods is "CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE?"

Dan - WHO gets to determine what appropriate parenting is? Some 22 year
old childless case worker? How abut a die hard lesbian activist who feels
that ALL heterosexual relations are by nature "RAPE?"

Who decides what and on what basis? So we should all SUBMIT to a
tyranical system and "cooperate" to show OUR good faith to the SYSTEM? Our
"GOOD INTENTIONS" with respect to OUR children? Accept 100% of the burden
of proof being ours? What the hell kind of country do you want to live in
Dan? Dan you are talking about something that even North Korea doesn't
demand of their people. You are speaking of something that goes so far
BEYOND what they did in Nazi Germany as to be unfathomable to even a former
Gestapo agent. Who have said; "We never had that much authority."

If you don't get a shiver down your back after you read what you
suggest..... you're missing the import of your words.

krp

January 15th 07, 01:34 PM

"0:->" > wrote in message
news:PrmdnftuOdK6mDbYnZ2dnUVZ_tSunZ2d@scnresearch. com...
> ... when in fact Greg and crew have given the most dangerous kinds of
> advice to families, have NEVER helped a single family recover their
> children or escape CPS clutches.
>
> Their envy, their personally motivated, because of their own failures,
> deep hatred of Kane and Dan, is obvious in this and many other posts from
> them.
>
> Rather than learn, rather than accept success, they claim it either didn't
> happen, or isn't 'really' success.
>

Success by knuckling under to a police state prison? If being "allowed"
(albeit temporarily) to have your children back is "success" then I suppose
so. If kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever and NEVER having to answer
to those assholes again isn't "success" then I don't know what is. It is
standing up and fighting when you are innocent. Regardless of the cost.
Getting the *******s out of dictating your life and having CONTROL over your
children. Having to live a life in FEAR and kissing stupid case workers'
asses for the rest of your bloody life. Maybe YOU like living on your knees
Kane. I DO NOT!

If you are eager to drop to your knees and perform oral sex on CPS then the
A-Team isn't for you. You can whine about how expensive we are. If you have
some YANKEE BACKBONE and want to kick their asses ALL THE WAY OUT of your
life - then we're worth our hire.

Dan Sullivan

January 15th 07, 02:49 PM

krp wrote:
> "Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
> >> You and your buddy Dan Sullivan tried to POSE as Family Rightsadvocates
> >> and tried to float ""advice"" to parents that they should submit to
> >> groundless
> >> violations of their Constitutional rights.
>
> > Which groundless violations of their Constitutional rights?
>
> Intrusion into the family. Of basic rights provided in the 4th 5th, 6th
> amendments to the Consitution and sometimes the 1st Amendment. Of siezing
> the children of the people without compelling cause. The right of a parent
> to the sancitity of their home and family (children) which has been
> repeatedly been found to be the LOST fundamental liberty interest the
> Constitution protects.

Greg was speaking of what I suggest the parents do after CPS has
removed the children to help get them back.

> > A parenting class to demonstrate cooperation and good intentions to give
> > the Judge some reason for returning the family's children from
> > foster care?
>
> Sure if this were Naxi Germany or Stalin's Russia, or Castro's Cuba.

Well, this being the USA, what do you advise the parents do after CPS
removes their kids... for a false allegation of drug use, for example?

> > A urine analysis to disprove an allegation of drug use?
>
> Absent any proof of such drug use? Do we live in a nation where we must
> pee in a cup on command?

If we're speaking of an allegation of drug use I would suggest the
parents get their own UAs asap.

Why wait for CPS to get around to asking?

If it takes CPS three or four days, they can claim the drugs were no
longer in the parent's bodies.

> Is that what you want to suggest Dan? That we give
> license to little Gestapo agents over EVERY aspect of our lives? That we
> give free reign over people with almost NO training or experience to come in
> and dictate how we live and what we believe? Even religion?

Where'd this come from?

> What do they do
> if they are Mormons or JW's and they encounter a case worker who rigidly
> believes that those religions are Cults and they should NOT be allowed to
> have children? One who doesn't like Jews, especially Hasidic Jews? What of
> a case worker who doesn't like somebody in Wicca? (Witchcraft) One who feels
> the solstice ritual of a naked dance in the woods is "CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE?"
>
> Dan - WHO gets to determine what appropriate parenting is?

A certificate from a parenting class only means the parents have
completed (usually) a ten hour parenting course.

All it demonstrates is the mildest cooperation of the parents.

> Some 22 year
> old childless case worker? How abut a die hard lesbian activist who feels
> that ALL heterosexual relations are by nature "RAPE?"
>
> Who decides what and on what basis? So we should all SUBMIT to a
> tyranical system and "cooperate" to show OUR good faith to the SYSTEM? Our
> "GOOD INTENTIONS" with respect to OUR children? Accept 100% of the burden
> of proof being ours? What the hell kind of country do you want to live in
> Dan? Dan you are talking about something that even North Korea doesn't
> demand of their people. You are speaking of something that goes so far
> BEYOND what they did in Nazi Germany as to be unfathomable to even a former
> Gestapo agent. Who have said; "We never had that much authority."
>
> If you don't get a shiver down your back after you read what you
> suggest..... you're missing the import of your words.

I don't get a shiver down my back when I suggest a parenting course and
possibly UAs because of a drug use allegation.

I get a shiver down my back when I read,
=========================
florida999
Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:25 pm
WE GOT THE KIDS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE FINALLY GOT TO COURT TODAY AND WE GOT THE KIDS BACK!!!!!! DAN, YOU
WERE RIGHT WHEN YOU SUGGESTED TO BE PROACTIVE, THE FACT THAT WE HAD
STARTED COUNCILING ON OUR OWN, AS WELL AS MY HUSBAND HAS BEEN TAKING
WEEKLY DRUG SCREENS

(IT) MADE ALL THE DIFFERENCE.
==========================

krp

January 15th 07, 03:27 PM

"Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
ps.com...

>> >> You and your buddy Dan Sullivan tried to POSE as Family
>> >> Rightsadvocates
>> >> and tried to float ""advice"" to parents that they should submit to
>> >> groundless violations of their Constitutional rights.

>> > Which groundless violations of their Constitutional rights?
>>
>> Intrusion into the family. Of basic rights provided in the 4th 5th,
>> 6th
>> amendments to the Consitution and sometimes the 1st Amendment. Of siezing
>> the children of the people without compelling cause. The right of a
>> parent
>> to the sancitity of their home and family (children) which has been
>> repeatedly been found to be the LOST fundamental liberty interest the
>> Constitution protects.

> Greg was speaking of what I suggest the parents do after CPS has
> removed the children to help get them back.

I wasn't responding to Greg - I was responding to what YOU said. Greg is
irrelevant to my response to you.

>> > A parenting class to demonstrate cooperation and good intentions to
>> > give
>> > the Judge some reason for returning the family's children from
>> > foster care?

>> Sure if this were Naxi Germany or Stalin's Russia, or Castro's Cuba.

> Well, this being the USA, what do you advise the parents do after CPS
> removes their kids... for a false allegation of drug use, for example?

One is to not allow them to do so. The other is to have a good lawyer
and take their asses to court. If need be file a civil lawsuit under Title
28 of the US Code sections 1983 and 1985 for violation of civil rights under
color of state law. Perhaps in some situations seek out the U.S. Attorney
and have them file a criminal action under the federal criminal law for
civil rights violations, possibly a RICO (Racketeering Influenced Corrupt
Organizations) action against them. Not a great deal of effort involved.
Just organize a few people to also bring charges. VOCAL (Victims of Child
Abuse Laws) did that quite successfully. Organize a chapter in your state
and get them spanked.

>> > A urine analysis to disprove an allegation of drug use?

>> Absent any proof of such drug use? Do we live in a nation where we
>> must
>> pee in a cup on command?

> If we're speaking of an allegation of drug use I would suggest the parents
> get their own UAs asap.

Perhaps. SUbmit to the state? NO!

> Why wait for CPS to get around to asking?

Oh I agree. The A-Team is VERY proactive. An ounce of prevention is
worth a pound of cure. That's why we take the approaches we do to cases. On
this we agree.

> If it takes CPS three or four days, they can claim the drugs were no
> longer in the parent's bodies.

Generally in our program we do hair strand analysis for a 6 month
period.

>> Is that what you want to suggest Dan? That we give license to little
>> Gestapo agents over EVERY aspect of our lives? That we
>> give free reign over people with almost NO training or experience to come
>> in and dictate how we live and what we believe? Even religion?

> Where'd this come from?

It comes in from rather then being pre-emptive as the A-Team is to
SUBMITTING to their demands. Allowing THEIR experts to be used. Why because
their experts are whores. As a general rule you'll get railroaded.

>> What do they do if they are Mormons or JW's and they encounter a case
>> worker who rigidly
>> believes that those religions are Cults and they should NOT be allowed to
>> have children? One who doesn't like Jews, especially Hasidic Jews? What
>> of
>> a case worker who doesn't like somebody in Wicca? (Witchcraft) One who
>> feels
>> the solstice ritual of a naked dance in the woods is "CHILD SEXUAL
>> ABUSE?"

>> Dan - WHO gets to determine what appropriate parenting is?

> A certificate from a parenting class only means the parents have completed
> (usually) a ten hour parenting course.

Well we require clients to get them in custody cases. But submit to the
state that they are necessary MUCH LESS than they actually prove anything
beyond attendance.

> All it demonstrates is the mildest cooperation of the parents.

Never submit to Satan ANY authority or he'll take it and abuse you.

>> Some 22 year old childless case worker? How abut a die hard lesbian
>> activist who feels
>> that ALL heterosexual relations are by nature "RAPE?"

>> Who decides what and on what basis? So we should all SUBMIT to a
>> tyranical system and "cooperate" to show OUR good faith to the SYSTEM?
>> Our
>> "GOOD INTENTIONS" with respect to OUR children? Accept 100% of the
>> burden
>> of proof being ours? What the hell kind of country do you want to live
>> in
>> Dan? Dan you are talking about something that even North Korea doesn't
>> demand of their people. You are speaking of something that goes so far
>> BEYOND what they did in Nazi Germany as to be unfathomable to even a
>> former
>> Gestapo agent. Who have said; "We never had that much authority."

>> If you don't get a shiver down your back after you read what you
>> suggest..... you're missing the import of your words.

> I don't get a shiver down my back when I suggest a parenting course and
> possibly UAs because of a drug use allegation.

It should when you take it past preempting the state to SUBMITTING to
their authority over you.

Dan Sullivan

January 15th 07, 04:04 PM

krp wrote:
> "Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
>
> >> >> You and your buddy Dan Sullivan tried to POSE as Family
> >> >> Rightsadvocates
> >> >> and tried to float ""advice"" to parents that they should submit to
> >> >> groundless violations of their Constitutional rights.
>
> >> > Which groundless violations of their Constitutional rights?
> >>
> >> Intrusion into the family. Of basic rights provided in the 4th 5th,
> >> 6th
> >> amendments to the Consitution and sometimes the 1st Amendment. Of siezing
> >> the children of the people without compelling cause. The right of a
> >> parent
> >> to the sancitity of their home and family (children) which has been
> >> repeatedly been found to be the LOST fundamental liberty interest the
> >> Constitution protects.
>
> > Greg was speaking of what I suggest the parents do after CPS has
> > removed the children to help get them back.
>
> I wasn't responding to Greg - I was responding to what YOU said. Greg is
> irrelevant to my response to you.

My response was to Greg's claim that I advise "parents that they should
submit to groundless violations of their Constitutional rights.

And I responded with "Which groundless violations of their
Constitutional rights?" did I advise the parents to submit to.

You seem to have missed the premise.

> >> > A parenting class to demonstrate cooperation and good intentions to
> >> > give
> >> > the Judge some reason for returning the family's children from
> >> > foster care?
>
> >> Sure if this were Naxi Germany or Stalin's Russia, or Castro's Cuba.
>
> > Well, this being the USA, what do you advise the parents do after CPS
> > removes their kids... for a false allegation of drug use, for example?
>
> One is to not allow them to do so.

And then what would you advise the parents to do?

> The other is to have a good lawyer
> and take their asses to court. If need be file a civil lawsuit under Title
> 28 of the US Code sections 1983 and 1985 for violation of civil rights under
> color of state law. Perhaps in some situations seek out the U.S. Attorney
> and have them file a criminal action under the federal criminal law for
> civil rights violations, possibly a RICO (Racketeering Influenced Corrupt
> Organizations) action against them. Not a great deal of effort involved.
> Just organize a few people to also bring charges. VOCAL (Victims of Child
> Abuse Laws) did that quite successfully.

When and where>

> Organize a chapter in your state and get them spanked.

I did start a chapter of Vocal.

They thought I was too much of an activist.

That it was too dificult to beat CPS.

They wanted the meetings to be discussions of how bad being founded for
maltreatment made the parents feel.

Pity parties.

In a few months three findings of SA were reversed with my help.

> >> > A urine analysis to disprove an allegation of drug use?
>
> >> Absent any proof of such drug use? Do we live in a nation where we
> >> must
> >> pee in a cup on command?
>
> > If we're speaking of an allegation of drug use I would suggest the parents
> > get their own UAs asap.
>
> Perhaps. SUbmit to the state? NO!

You would advise the parents to violate a Court order for UAs?

> > Why wait for CPS to get around to asking?
>
> Oh I agree. The A-Team is VERY proactive.

Just curious.

Who else is a full time member (not consultants) of the A-Team besides
yourself?

> An ounce of prevention is
> worth a pound of cure. That's why we take the approaches we do to cases. On
> this we agree.
>
> > If it takes CPS three or four days, they can claim the drugs were no
> > longer in the parent's bodies.
>
> Generally in our program we do hair strand analysis for a 6 month
> period.

I believe UA analyses can be done considerably faster than a hair
strand analysis.

> >> Is that what you want to suggest Dan? That we give license to little
> >> Gestapo agents over EVERY aspect of our lives? That we
> >> give free reign over people with almost NO training or experience to come
> >> in and dictate how we live and what we believe? Even religion?
>
> > Where'd this come from?
>
> It comes in from rather then being pre-emptive as the A-Team is to
> SUBMITTING to their demands. Allowing THEIR experts to be used. Why because
> their experts are whores. As a general rule you'll get railroaded.
>
> >> What do they do if they are Mormons or JW's and they encounter a case
> >> worker who rigidly
> >> believes that those religions are Cults and they should NOT be allowed to
> >> have children? One who doesn't like Jews, especially Hasidic Jews? What
> >> of
> >> a case worker who doesn't like somebody in Wicca? (Witchcraft) One who
> >> feels
> >> the solstice ritual of a naked dance in the woods is "CHILD SEXUAL
> >> ABUSE?"
>
> >> Dan - WHO gets to determine what appropriate parenting is?
>
> > A certificate from a parenting class only means the parents have completed
> > (usually) a ten hour parenting course.
>
> Well we require clients to get them in custody cases. But submit to the
> state that they are necessary MUCH LESS than they actually prove anything
> beyond attendance.
>
> > All it demonstrates is the mildest cooperation of the parents.
>
> Never submit to Satan ANY authority or he'll take it and abuse you.
>
> >> Some 22 year old childless case worker? How abut a die hard lesbian
> >> activist who feels
> >> that ALL heterosexual relations are by nature "RAPE?"
>
> >> Who decides what and on what basis? So we should all SUBMIT to a
> >> tyranical system and "cooperate" to show OUR good faith to the SYSTEM?
> >> Our
> >> "GOOD INTENTIONS" with respect to OUR children? Accept 100% of the
> >> burden
> >> of proof being ours? What the hell kind of country do you want to live
> >> in
> >> Dan? Dan you are talking about something that even North Korea doesn't
> >> demand of their people. You are speaking of something that goes so far
> >> BEYOND what they did in Nazi Germany as to be unfathomable to even a
> >> former
> >> Gestapo agent. Who have said; "We never had that much authority."
>
> >> If you don't get a shiver down your back after you read what you
> >> suggest..... you're missing the import of your words.
>
> > I don't get a shiver down my back when I suggest a parenting course and
> > possibly UAs because of a drug use allegation.

Here, I'll paste back in what you deleted,
==================
florida999
Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:25 pm
WE GOT THE KIDS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE FINALLY GOT TO COURT TODAY AND WE GOT THE KIDS BACK!!!!!! DAN, YOU
WERE RIGHT WHEN YOU SUGGESTED TO BE PROACTIVE, THE FACT THAT WE HAD
STARTED COUNCILING ON OUR OWN, AS WELL AS MY HUSBAND HAS BEEN TAKING
WEEKLY DRUG SCREENS

(IT) MADE ALL THE DIFFERENCE.
===================

> It should when you take it past preempting the state to SUBMITTING to
> their authority over you.

krp

January 15th 07, 05:31 PM

"Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>> >> >> You and your buddy Dan Sullivan tried to POSE as Family Rights
>> >> >> advocates
>> >> >> and tried to float ""advice"" to parents that they should submit to
>> >> >> groundless violations of their Constitutional rights.
>>
>> >> > Which groundless violations of their Constitutional rights?
>> >>
>> >> Intrusion into the family. Of basic rights provided in the 4th
>> >> 5th,
>> >> 6th
>> >> amendments to the Consitution and sometimes the 1st Amendment. Of
>> >> siezing
>> >> the children of the people without compelling cause. The right of a
>> >> parent
>> >> to the sancitity of their home and family (children) which has been
>> >> repeatedly been found to be the LOST fundamental liberty interest the
>> >> Constitution protects.
>>
>> > Greg was speaking of what I suggest the parents do after CPS has
>> > removed the children to help get them back.
>>
>> I wasn't responding to Greg - I was responding to what YOU said. Greg
>> is
>> irrelevant to my response to you.

> My response was to Greg's claim that I advise "parents that they should
> submit to groundless violations of their Constitutional rights.

And I responded to your statement NOT to Greg.

> And I responded with "Which groundless violations of their
> Constitutional rights?" did I advise the parents to submit to.

> You seem to have missed the premise.

Did I?

>> >> > A parenting class to demonstrate cooperation and good intentions to
>> >> > give
>> >> > the Judge some reason for returning the family's children from
>> >> > foster care?
>>
>> >> Sure if this were Naxi Germany or Stalin's Russia, or Castro's
>> >> Cuba.
>>
>> > Well, this being the USA, what do you advise the parents do after CPS
>> > removes their kids... for a false allegation of drug use, for example?
>>
>> One is to not allow them to do so.

> And then what would you advise the parents to do?

I allready answered that several times. But feel free to keep asking.

>> The other is to have a good lawyer
>> and take their asses to court. If need be file a civil lawsuit under
>> Title
>> 28 of the US Code sections 1983 and 1985 for violation of civil rights
>> under
>> color of state law. Perhaps in some situations seek out the U.S. Attorney
>> and have them file a criminal action under the federal criminal law for
>> civil rights violations, possibly a RICO (Racketeering Influenced Corrupt
>> Organizations) action against them. Not a great deal of effort involved.
>> Just organize a few people to also bring charges. VOCAL (Victims of Child
>> Abuse Laws) did that quite successfully.

> When and where>

Ask VOCAL.

>> Organize a chapter in your state and get them spanked.

> I did start a chapter of Vocal.

Where and when?

> They thought I was too much of an activist.
> That it was too dificult to beat CPS.

> They wanted the meetings to be discussions of how bad being founded for
> maltreatment made the parents feel.

> Pity parties.
>
> In a few months three findings of SA were reversed with my help.
>
>> >> > A urine analysis to disprove an allegation of drug use?
>>
>> >> Absent any proof of such drug use? Do we live in a nation where we
>> >> must
>> >> pee in a cup on command?
>>
>> > If we're speaking of an allegation of drug use I would suggest the
>> > parents
>> > get their own UAs asap.
>>
>> Perhaps. SUbmit to the state? NO!
>
> You would advise the parents to violate a Court order for UAs?
>
>> > Why wait for CPS to get around to asking?
>>
>> Oh I agree. The A-Team is VERY proactive.
>
> Just curious.

> Who else is a full time member (not consultants) of the A-Team besides
> yourself?

Look at the website.

>> An ounce of prevention is
>> worth a pound of cure. That's why we take the approaches we do to cases.
>> On
>> this we agree.
>>
>> > If it takes CPS three or four days, they can claim the drugs were no
>> > longer in the parent's bodies.
>>
>> Generally in our program we do hair strand analysis for a 6 month
>> period.

> I believe UA analyses can be done considerably faster than a hair strand
> analysis.

Faster yed, more accurate and definiative? NO!

>> >> Is that what you want to suggest Dan? That we give license to little
>> >> Gestapo agents over EVERY aspect of our lives? That we
>> >> give free reign over people with almost NO training or experience to
>> >> come
>> >> in and dictate how we live and what we believe? Even religion?
>>
>> > Where'd this come from?
>>
>> It comes in from rather then being pre-emptive as the A-Team is to
>> SUBMITTING to their demands. Allowing THEIR experts to be used. Why
>> because
>> their experts are whores. As a general rule you'll get railroaded.
>>
>> >> What do they do if they are Mormons or JW's and they encounter a case
>> >> worker who rigidly
>> >> believes that those religions are Cults and they should NOT be allowed
>> >> to
>> >> have children? One who doesn't like Jews, especially Hasidic Jews?
>> >> What
>> >> of
>> >> a case worker who doesn't like somebody in Wicca? (Witchcraft) One who
>> >> feels
>> >> the solstice ritual of a naked dance in the woods is "CHILD SEXUAL
>> >> ABUSE?"
>>
>> >> Dan - WHO gets to determine what appropriate parenting is?
>>
>> > A certificate from a parenting class only means the parents have
>> > completed
>> > (usually) a ten hour parenting course.
>>
>> Well we require clients to get them in custody cases. But submit to
>> the
>> state that they are necessary MUCH LESS than they actually prove anything
>> beyond attendance.
>>
>> > All it demonstrates is the mildest cooperation of the parents.
>>
>> Never submit to Satan ANY authority or he'll take it and abuse you.
>>
>> >> Some 22 year old childless case worker? How abut a die hard lesbian
>> >> activist who feels
>> >> that ALL heterosexual relations are by nature "RAPE?"
>>
>> >> Who decides what and on what basis? So we should all SUBMIT to a
>> >> tyranical system and "cooperate" to show OUR good faith to the SYSTEM?
>> >> Our
>> >> "GOOD INTENTIONS" with respect to OUR children? Accept 100% of the
>> >> burden
>> >> of proof being ours? What the hell kind of country do you want to
>> >> live
>> >> in
>> >> Dan? Dan you are talking about something that even North Korea doesn't
>> >> demand of their people. You are speaking of something that goes so
>> >> far
>> >> BEYOND what they did in Nazi Germany as to be unfathomable to even a
>> >> former
>> >> Gestapo agent. Who have said; "We never had that much authority."
>>
>> >> If you don't get a shiver down your back after you read what you
>> >> suggest..... you're missing the import of your words.
>>
>> > I don't get a shiver down my back when I suggest a parenting course and
>> > possibly UAs because of a drug use allegation.
>
> Here, I'll paste back in what you deleted,

WHAT relevance does it have to what *I* said??

0:->

January 15th 07, 05:37 PM

krp wrote:
> "0:->" > wrote in message
> news:PrmdnftuOdK6mDbYnZ2dnUVZ_tSunZ2d@scnresearch. com...
>> ... when in fact Greg and crew have given the most dangerous kinds of
>> advice to families, have NEVER helped a single family recover their
>> children or escape CPS clutches.
>>
>> Their envy, their personally motivated, because of their own failures,
>> deep hatred of Kane and Dan, is obvious in this and many other posts from
>> them.
>>
>> Rather than learn, rather than accept success, they claim it either didn't
>> happen, or isn't 'really' success.
>>
>
> Success by knuckling under to a police state prison?

What knuckling under are you referring to, specifically?

> If being "allowed"
> (albeit temporarily) to have your children back is "success" then I suppose
> so.

"Albeit temporarily?"

> If kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever and NEVER having to answer
> to those assholes again isn't "success" then I don't know what is.

List those cases where you have succeeded by your methods.

> It is
> standing up and fighting when you are innocent.

You bet. What makes you think the families that Dan or I help don't
stand up and fight?

> Regardless of the cost.

Whoops! You got to be kidding. What if the cost is your kids?

> Getting the *******s out of dictating your life and having CONTROL over your
> children.

This society insists on just that. Few don't.

> Having to live a life in FEAR and kissing stupid case workers'
> asses for the rest of your bloody life.

What makes you think that's the case with the folks Dan and I have helped?

Have any of them told you that?

What different status ensues when they get their children back your way,
if they have. Which I doubt.

> Maybe YOU like living on your knees
> Kane. I DO NOT!

Then you should stop doing so. Ranters are, whether they know it or not,
always on their knees. Screaming threats at people, or agencies ensures
that you will continue to make yourself a target of them.

> If you are eager to drop to your knees and perform oral sex on CPS then the
> A-Team isn't for you.

Fixated, aren't you?

> You can whine about how expensive we are.

It's all accusations, isn't it Ken. No proof.

What have you actually produced for your pay.

> If you have
> some YANKEE BACKBONE and want to kick their asses ALL THE WAY OUT of your
> life - then we're worth our hire.

What's your score so far?

0:->

krp

January 15th 07, 05:53 PM

"0:->" > wrote in message
news:bJidnVa3rLlfJjbYnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@scnresearch. com...

>>> ... when in fact Greg and crew have given the most dangerous kinds of
>>> advice to families, have NEVER helped a single family recover their
>>> children or escape CPS clutches.

>>> Their envy, their personally motivated, because of their own failures,
>>> deep hatred of Kane and Dan, is obvious in this and many other posts
>>> from them.

>>> Rather than learn, rather than accept success, they claim it either
>>> didn't happen, or isn't 'really' success.

>> Success by knuckling under to a police state prison?

> What knuckling under are you referring to, specifically?

Allowing them to run your life. Kissing their ass.

>> If being "allowed" (albeit temporarily) to have your children back is
>> "success" then I suppose so.

> "Albeit temporarily?"

Yeah - temporarily. Another allegation and you have them back swarming
you.

>> If kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever and NEVER having to answer
>> to those assholes again isn't "success" then I don't know what is.

> List those cases where you have succeeded by your methods.

Go to the website a few of them are listed. Since you are so HIGH in
VOCAL, ask Leslie.

> > It is standing up and fighting when you are innocent.

> You bet. What makes you think the families that Dan or I help don't stand
> up and fight?

By what you say about cooperating.

> > Regardless of the cost.

> Whoops! You got to be kidding. What if the cost is your kids?

That wasn't a cost I was referring to. $$$

>> Getting the *******s out of dictating your life and having CONTROL over
>> your children.

> This society insists on just that. Few don't.

When you sign up, to COOPERATE- to a "performance plan" you live the
rest of your life under their direction. You have acceeeded to their
"JURISDICTION."

> > Having to live a life in FEAR and kissing stupid case workers' asses for
> > the rest of your bloody life.

> What makes you think that's the case with the folks Dan and I have helped?

By what yopu advocate Dan.

> Have any of them told you that?

Nope, would they?

> What different status ensues when they get their children back your way,
> if they have. Which I doubt.

Our clients have never submitted to the CPS "jurisdiction" what you
suggest would be having them do that. And I don't thgink you understand why
the difference is important.

>> Maybe YOU like living on your knees Kane. I DO NOT!

> Then you should stop doing so. Ranters are, whether they know it or not,
> always on their knees. Screaming threats at people, or agencies ensures
> that you will continue to make yourself a target of them.
>
>> If you are eager to drop to your knees and perform oral sex on CPS then
>> the A-Team isn't for you.
>
> Fixated, aren't you?
>
>> You can whine about how expensive we are.
>
> It's all accusations, isn't it Ken. No proof.
>
> What have you actually produced for your pay.
>
> > If you have
>> some YANKEE BACKBONE and want to kick their asses ALL THE WAY OUT of your
>> life - then we're worth our hire.
>
> What's your score so far?

Somewhere in the 90th Percentile.

Firemonkey

January 15th 07, 06:41 PM

I was helped by Dan, I got the kids back and kissed no ass at all, in
fact I took a fine scalp, got the disturbed cw kicked off the case for
lying, harrassing and abuse of power.
I signed no service plan, ever.

You haters miss the point completely.

krp wrote:
> "0:->" > wrote in message
> news:bJidnVa3rLlfJjbYnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@scnresearch. com...
>
> >>> ... when in fact Greg and crew have given the most dangerous kinds of
> >>> advice to families, have NEVER helped a single family recover their
> >>> children or escape CPS clutches.
>
> >>> Their envy, their personally motivated, because of their own failures,
> >>> deep hatred of Kane and Dan, is obvious in this and many other posts
> >>> from them.
>
> >>> Rather than learn, rather than accept success, they claim it either
> >>> didn't happen, or isn't 'really' success.
>
> >> Success by knuckling under to a police state prison?
>
> > What knuckling under are you referring to, specifically?
>
> Allowing them to run your life. Kissing their ass.
>
> >> If being "allowed" (albeit temporarily) to have your children back is
> >> "success" then I suppose so.
>
> > "Albeit temporarily?"
>
> Yeah - temporarily. Another allegation and you have them back swarming
> you.
>
> >> If kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever and NEVER having to answer
> >> to those assholes again isn't "success" then I don't know what is.
>
> > List those cases where you have succeeded by your methods.
>
> Go to the website a few of them are listed. Since you are so HIGH in
> VOCAL, ask Leslie.
>
> > > It is standing up and fighting when you are innocent.
>
> > You bet. What makes you think the families that Dan or I help don't stand
> > up and fight?
>
> By what you say about cooperating.
>
> > > Regardless of the cost.
>
> > Whoops! You got to be kidding. What if the cost is your kids?
>
> That wasn't a cost I was referring to. $$$
>
> >> Getting the *******s out of dictating your life and having CONTROL over
> >> your children.
>
> > This society insists on just that. Few don't.
>
> When you sign up, to COOPERATE- to a "performance plan" you live the
> rest of your life under their direction. You have acceeeded to their
> "JURISDICTION."
>
> > > Having to live a life in FEAR and kissing stupid case workers' asses for
> > > the rest of your bloody life.
>
> > What makes you think that's the case with the folks Dan and I have helped?
>
> By what yopu advocate Dan.
>
> > Have any of them told you that?
>
> Nope, would they?
>
> > What different status ensues when they get their children back your way,
> > if they have. Which I doubt.
>
> Our clients have never submitted to the CPS "jurisdiction" what you
> suggest would be having them do that. And I don't thgink you understand why
> the difference is important.
>
> >> Maybe YOU like living on your knees Kane. I DO NOT!
>
> > Then you should stop doing so. Ranters are, whether they know it or not,
> > always on their knees. Screaming threats at people, or agencies ensures
> > that you will continue to make yourself a target of them.
> >
> >> If you are eager to drop to your knees and perform oral sex on CPS then
> >> the A-Team isn't for you.
> >
> > Fixated, aren't you?
> >
> >> You can whine about how expensive we are.
> >
> > It's all accusations, isn't it Ken. No proof.
> >
> > What have you actually produced for your pay.
> >
> > > If you have
> >> some YANKEE BACKBONE and want to kick their asses ALL THE WAY OUT of your
> >> life - then we're worth our hire.
> >
> > What's your score so far?
>
> Somewhere in the 90th Percentile.

0:->

January 15th 07, 07:17 PM

krp wrote:
> "0:->" > wrote in message
> news:bJidnVa3rLlfJjbYnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@scnresearch. com...
>
>>>> ... when in fact Greg and crew have given the most dangerous kinds of
>>>> advice to families, have NEVER helped a single family recover their
>>>> children or escape CPS clutches.
>
>>>> Their envy, their personally motivated, because of their own failures,
>>>> deep hatred of Kane and Dan, is obvious in this and many other posts
>>>> from them.
>
>>>> Rather than learn, rather than accept success, they claim it either
>>>> didn't happen, or isn't 'really' success.
>
>>> Success by knuckling under to a police state prison?
>
>> What knuckling under are you referring to, specifically?
>
> Allowing them to run your life. Kissing their ass.

Which them are you referring to, CPS?

Would you suggest violating a court order? And those things that are
backed by statute that they require of the person?

I'm still not clear about this "knuckling under" thing.

It so general that we could say that when my wife is tired and wants me
to cook dinner I'm knuckling under.

>>> If being "allowed" (albeit temporarily) to have your children back is
>>> "success" then I suppose so.
>
>> "Albeit temporarily?"
>
> Yeah - temporarily. Another allegation and you have them back swarming
> you.

Are you suggesting that once cleared of allegations, by any means, yours
as you claim to do them, and mine as I claim, that yours would result in
no possibility of another allegation?

Do you know, clinically, what "Magical thinking" means?

You appear to be indulging in it.

But I could be wrong. Happens. 1974, August. The 17th. About 3:15 pm...
that's the closest I can remember the last time.

So, you are going to show me how your method will stop another
allegation being made.

I await with baited breath.

This is one not even Dan can do, as far as I know.

And YOU can?

Oh goody. Complete freedom for families.

Can I borrow this tactic of yours, or must I pay for it?

>>> If kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever and NEVER having to answer
>>> to those assholes again isn't "success" then I don't know what is.
>
>> List those cases where you have succeeded by your methods.
>
> Go to the website a few of them are listed.

No. You made the claim here "kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever
and NEVER having to answer to those assholes again ... " is what you
call success.

Prove it. Prove you can do that.

> Since you are so HIGH in
> VOCAL, ask Leslie.

The last poster, and current attributions show you are addressing:

"> "0:->" > wrote in message"

I have never been a member of VOCAL. I don't know Leslie to ask. Be so
kind then as to post them here yourself.

Thanks.

>>> It is standing up and fighting when you are innocent.
>
>> You bet. What makes you think the families that Dan or I help don't stand
>> up and fight?
>
> By what you say about cooperating.

What am I saying about "cooperating?"

Are you cooperating when you pay your bills?

Are you cooperating when the judge sends you to driving school and you go?

>>> Regardless of the cost.
>
>> Whoops! You got to be kidding. What if the cost is your kids?
>
> That wasn't a cost I was referring to. $$$

What do you do for that up front fee, if I may ask?

>>> Getting the *******s out of dictating your life and having CONTROL over
>>> your children.
>
>> This society insists on just that. Few don't.
>
> When you sign up, to COOPERATE- to a "performance plan" you live the
> rest of your life under their direction. You have acceeeded to their
> "JURISDICTION."

"Rest of your life? Really?

For a consultant you are remarkably stupid, Ken. Or uninformed.

Wherever you LIVE is the government's executive branch jurisdiction in
your location...be it city, county, or state. Or for that matter, federal.

There is no escaping "jurisdiction." Well, death will do it.

You run to China and you simply have a new jurisdiction.

If you have come to the government's attention, and action is taken
against you you have options of how to handle it.

An all out war seems a bit extreme at the front end, don't you think?

You appear to be someone that comes in later in the game...because you
are about court, trial, jury, etc.

Most of what we discuss here is how to avoid ever getting there.

I'm as enthusiastic about a vigorous defense AT TRIAL as you are.
Possibly in some cases moreso.

The events leading up to trial is were we differ.

I do not wish to drive to the state TO trial, so it would seem logical
to me to manage the pretrial period in ways that would tend to avoid trial.

Of course that wouldn't make me any money if I were a TRIAL consultant
of some kind.

So I don't make any. And since I'm not paid anyway, I don't make any
anyway.

If the agent or agents of the state I'm dealing with are acting within
the confines of statute and stated policy then it would be foolish of me
to challenge them on all issues.

I suggest challenge only as lostintranslation mentioned...on those
issues that are not relevant.

The ones that are neutral or relevant I suggest you do and do well.

Now if you wish to challenge the statute at some point, I'm all for
that, but I won't ask parents to risk their children doing a crusade.

Those can take years, and that can amount to the child's childhood.

After the trial, if one wishes to risk it and wants to invest the time
and effort, I'm all for reforming child protection practice based on
statute.

Now we come to the good part.

If the agents of the state are operating OUTSIDE the law ... violating
statute, policy, and acceptable social work practice, then THEN, I've
got them.

But do I want to telegraph my punches?

Do I want a confrontation that warns them I'm going to be coming for them?

Nope.

I will let them do what they do, make reasonable protests, and go along
with them. I will record their actions and my protests, and in court
that will be where I draw my power from.

If they stop when I make reasonably voiced protests, all well and good.
If they do not, and they are in violation of my rights, breaking the
law, they are mine.

Dan has done this repeatedly.

I less so because most of my work was with relatives attempting to get
their kin away from CPS.

Our work together had more to do with changing policy so the tack was
different.

If you wish to make war with CPS early on, then your way is great.

And it will get people in deep enough, with CPS girding it's loins for
battle sufficiently to ensure large large fees for long drawn out legal
fights.

We have a difference of opinion here.

On your part, a failure to communicate.

0:->

>
>>> Having to live a life in FEAR and kissing stupid case workers' asses for
>>> the rest of your bloody life.
>
>> What makes you think that's the case with the folks Dan and I have helped?
>
> By what yopu advocate Dan.
>
>> Have any of them told you that?
>
> Nope, would they?
>
>> What different status ensues when they get their children back your way,
>> if they have. Which I doubt.
>
> Our clients have never submitted to the CPS "jurisdiction" what you
> suggest would be having them do that. And I don't thgink you understand why
> the difference is important.
>
>>> Maybe YOU like living on your knees Kane. I DO NOT!
>
>> Then you should stop doing so. Ranters are, whether they know it or not,
>> always on their knees. Screaming threats at people, or agencies ensures
>> that you will continue to make yourself a target of them.
>>
>>> If you are eager to drop to your knees and perform oral sex on CPS then
>>> the A-Team isn't for you.
>> Fixated, aren't you?
>>
>>> You can whine about how expensive we are.
>> It's all accusations, isn't it Ken. No proof.
>>
>> What have you actually produced for your pay.
>>
>>> If you have
>>> some YANKEE BACKBONE and want to kick their asses ALL THE WAY OUT of your
>>> life - then we're worth our hire.
>> What's your score so far?
>
> Somewhere in the 90th Percentile.
>
>

0:->

January 15th 07, 07:23 PM

Firemonkey wrote:
> I was helped by Dan, I got the kids back and kissed no ass at all, in
> fact I took a fine scalp, got the disturbed cw kicked off the case for
> lying, harrassing and abuse of power.
> I signed no service plan, ever.
>
> You haters miss the point completely.

I can't know, and don't want to publicly, precisely how firemonkey
managed this tactically, but my guess is she did much as I've suggested
in a recent post...just sent minutes ago.

You do what you have to do after making protest in a reasonable
assertive way.

And if THEY are violating policy, you will have your turn and they will
end up like the lying harassing power abuser ended up.

And all without a long lengthy expensive, consultant enriching 0:->
legal battle.

Neat, eh?

And apparently something that Dan suggested to her she thinks was
instrumental in her winning.

Ken, what do you find a problem with this?

I'll let you in on something you probably don't want to know, and avoid
at all costs.

Judges LOVE it when a CPS client does a good job at beating CPS without
making a dangerous fool of themselves, and battling the JUDGE.

Not going to make YOU a dime, of course, but it gets a lot of kids
sprung and cases closed.

And you get a judge that likes you and doesn't want to see CPS bothering
you again.

Beat the judge down though, and you can be fairly certain that if there
is another allegation against you, he or she will be quite happy to see
you beat up again.

Darn those judges. How dare they be 'human,' eh?

Kane

>
>
> krp wrote:
>> "0:->" > wrote in message
>> news:bJidnVa3rLlfJjbYnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@scnresearch. com...
>>
>>>>> ... when in fact Greg and crew have given the most dangerous kinds of
>>>>> advice to families, have NEVER helped a single family recover their
>>>>> children or escape CPS clutches.
>>>>> Their envy, their personally motivated, because of their own failures,
>>>>> deep hatred of Kane and Dan, is obvious in this and many other posts
>>>>> from them.
>>>>> Rather than learn, rather than accept success, they claim it either
>>>>> didn't happen, or isn't 'really' success.
>>>> Success by knuckling under to a police state prison?
>>> What knuckling under are you referring to, specifically?
>> Allowing them to run your life. Kissing their ass.
>>
>>>> If being "allowed" (albeit temporarily) to have your children back is
>>>> "success" then I suppose so.
>>> "Albeit temporarily?"
>> Yeah - temporarily. Another allegation and you have them back swarming
>> you.
>>
>>>> If kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever and NEVER having to answer
>>>> to those assholes again isn't "success" then I don't know what is.
>>> List those cases where you have succeeded by your methods.
>> Go to the website a few of them are listed. Since you are so HIGH in
>> VOCAL, ask Leslie.
>>
>>>> It is standing up and fighting when you are innocent.
>>> You bet. What makes you think the families that Dan or I help don't stand
>>> up and fight?
>> By what you say about cooperating.
>>
>>>> Regardless of the cost.
>>> Whoops! You got to be kidding. What if the cost is your kids?
>> That wasn't a cost I was referring to. $$$
>>
>>>> Getting the *******s out of dictating your life and having CONTROL over
>>>> your children.
>>> This society insists on just that. Few don't.
>> When you sign up, to COOPERATE- to a "performance plan" you live the
>> rest of your life under their direction. You have acceeeded to their
>> "JURISDICTION."
>>
>>>> Having to live a life in FEAR and kissing stupid case workers' asses for
>>>> the rest of your bloody life.
>>> What makes you think that's the case with the folks Dan and I have helped?
>> By what yopu advocate Dan.
>>
>>> Have any of them told you that?
>> Nope, would they?
>>
>>> What different status ensues when they get their children back your way,
>>> if they have. Which I doubt.
>> Our clients have never submitted to the CPS "jurisdiction" what you
>> suggest would be having them do that. And I don't thgink you understand why
>> the difference is important.
>>
>>>> Maybe YOU like living on your knees Kane. I DO NOT!
>>> Then you should stop doing so. Ranters are, whether they know it or not,
>>> always on their knees. Screaming threats at people, or agencies ensures
>>> that you will continue to make yourself a target of them.
>>>
>>>> If you are eager to drop to your knees and perform oral sex on CPS then
>>>> the A-Team isn't for you.
>>> Fixated, aren't you?
>>>
>>>> You can whine about how expensive we are.
>>> It's all accusations, isn't it Ken. No proof.
>>>
>>> What have you actually produced for your pay.
>>>
>>>> If you have
>>>> some YANKEE BACKBONE and want to kick their asses ALL THE WAY OUT of your
>>>> life - then we're worth our hire.
>>> What's your score so far?
>> Somewhere in the 90th Percentile.
>

0:->

January 15th 07, 07:28 PM

correction at ***. Should read "Dan ***CAN'T do" not
"Dan can do."

Thank you for your indulgence of my error and correction.

0:-> wrote:
> krp wrote:
>> "0:->" > wrote in message
>> news:bJidnVa3rLlfJjbYnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@scnresearch. com...
>>
>>>>> ... when in fact Greg and crew have given the most dangerous kinds
>>>>> of advice to families, have NEVER helped a single family recover
>>>>> their children or escape CPS clutches.
>>
>>>>> Their envy, their personally motivated, because of their own
>>>>> failures, deep hatred of Kane and Dan, is obvious in this and many
>>>>> other posts from them.
>>
>>>>> Rather than learn, rather than accept success, they claim it either
>>>>> didn't happen, or isn't 'really' success.
>>
>>>> Success by knuckling under to a police state prison?
>>
>>> What knuckling under are you referring to, specifically?
>>
>> Allowing them to run your life. Kissing their ass.
>
> Which them are you referring to, CPS?
>
> Would you suggest violating a court order? And those things that are
> backed by statute that they require of the person?
>
> I'm still not clear about this "knuckling under" thing.
>
> It so general that we could say that when my wife is tired and wants me
> to cook dinner I'm knuckling under.
>
>>>> If being "allowed" (albeit temporarily) to have your children back
>>>> is "success" then I suppose so.
>>
>>> "Albeit temporarily?"
>>
>> Yeah - temporarily. Another allegation and you have them back
>> swarming you.
>
> Are you suggesting that once cleared of allegations, by any means, yours
> as you claim to do them, and mine as I claim, that yours would result in
> no possibility of another allegation?
>
> Do you know, clinically, what "Magical thinking" means?
>
> You appear to be indulging in it.
>
> But I could be wrong. Happens. 1974, August. The 17th. About 3:15 pm...
> that's the closest I can remember the last time.
>
> So, you are going to show me how your method will stop another
> allegation being made.
>
> I await with baited breath.
>
> This is one not even Dan ***CAN'T do, as far as I know.
>
> And YOU can?
>
> Oh goody. Complete freedom for families.
>
> Can I borrow this tactic of yours, or must I pay for it?
>
>>>> If kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever and NEVER having to
>>>> answer to those assholes again isn't "success" then I don't know
>>>> what is.
>>
>>> List those cases where you have succeeded by your methods.
>>
>> Go to the website a few of them are listed.
>
> No. You made the claim here "kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever
> and NEVER having to answer to those assholes again ... " is what you
> call success.
>
> Prove it. Prove you can do that.
>
>> Since you are so HIGH in VOCAL, ask Leslie.
>
> The last poster, and current attributions show you are addressing:
>
> "> "0:->" > wrote in message"
>
> I have never been a member of VOCAL. I don't know Leslie to ask. Be so
> kind then as to post them here yourself.
>
> Thanks.
>
>>>> It is standing up and fighting when you are innocent.
>>
>>> You bet. What makes you think the families that Dan or I help don't
>>> stand up and fight?
>>
>> By what you say about cooperating.
>
> What am I saying about "cooperating?"
>
> Are you cooperating when you pay your bills?
>
> Are you cooperating when the judge sends you to driving school and you go?
>
>>>> Regardless of the cost.
>>
>>> Whoops! You got to be kidding. What if the cost is your kids?
>>
>> That wasn't a cost I was referring to. $$$
>
> What do you do for that up front fee, if I may ask?
>
>>>> Getting the *******s out of dictating your life and having CONTROL
>>>> over your children.
>>
>>> This society insists on just that. Few don't.
>>
>> When you sign up, to COOPERATE- to a "performance plan" you live
>> the rest of your life under their direction. You have acceeeded to
>> their "JURISDICTION."
>
> "Rest of your life? Really?
>
> For a consultant you are remarkably stupid, Ken. Or uninformed.
>
> Wherever you LIVE is the government's executive branch jurisdiction in
> your location...be it city, county, or state. Or for that matter, federal.
>
> There is no escaping "jurisdiction." Well, death will do it.
>
> You run to China and you simply have a new jurisdiction.
>
> If you have come to the government's attention, and action is taken
> against you you have options of how to handle it.
>
> An all out war seems a bit extreme at the front end, don't you think?
>
> You appear to be someone that comes in later in the game...because you
> are about court, trial, jury, etc.
>
> Most of what we discuss here is how to avoid ever getting there.
>
> I'm as enthusiastic about a vigorous defense AT TRIAL as you are.
> Possibly in some cases moreso.
>
> The events leading up to trial is were we differ.
>
> I do not wish to drive to the state TO trial, so it would seem logical
> to me to manage the pretrial period in ways that would tend to avoid trial.
>
> Of course that wouldn't make me any money if I were a TRIAL consultant
> of some kind.
>
> So I don't make any. And since I'm not paid anyway, I don't make any
> anyway.
>
> If the agent or agents of the state I'm dealing with are acting within
> the confines of statute and stated policy then it would be foolish of me
> to challenge them on all issues.
>
> I suggest challenge only as lostintranslation mentioned...on those
> issues that are not relevant.
>
> The ones that are neutral or relevant I suggest you do and do well.
>
> Now if you wish to challenge the statute at some point, I'm all for
> that, but I won't ask parents to risk their children doing a crusade.
>
> Those can take years, and that can amount to the child's childhood.
>
> After the trial, if one wishes to risk it and wants to invest the time
> and effort, I'm all for reforming child protection practice based on
> statute.
>
> Now we come to the good part.
>
> If the agents of the state are operating OUTSIDE the law ... violating
> statute, policy, and acceptable social work practice, then THEN, I've
> got them.
>
> But do I want to telegraph my punches?
>
> Do I want a confrontation that warns them I'm going to be coming for them?
>
> Nope.
>
> I will let them do what they do, make reasonable protests, and go along
> with them. I will record their actions and my protests, and in court
> that will be where I draw my power from.
>
> If they stop when I make reasonably voiced protests, all well and good.
> If they do not, and they are in violation of my rights, breaking the
> law, they are mine.
>
> Dan has done this repeatedly.
>
> I less so because most of my work was with relatives attempting to get
> their kin away from CPS.
>
> Our work together had more to do with changing policy so the tack was
> different.
>
> If you wish to make war with CPS early on, then your way is great.
>
> And it will get people in deep enough, with CPS girding it's loins for
> battle sufficiently to ensure large large fees for long drawn out legal
> fights.
>
> We have a difference of opinion here.
>
> On your part, a failure to communicate.
>
> 0:->
>
>
>>
>>>> Having to live a life in FEAR and kissing stupid case workers' asses
>>>> for the rest of your bloody life.
>>
>>> What makes you think that's the case with the folks Dan and I have
>>> helped?
>>
>> By what yopu advocate Dan.
>>
>>> Have any of them told you that?
>>
>> Nope, would they?
>>
>>> What different status ensues when they get their children back your
>>> way, if they have. Which I doubt.
>>
>> Our clients have never submitted to the CPS "jurisdiction" what
>> you suggest would be having them do that. And I don't thgink you
>> understand why the difference is important.
>>
>>>> Maybe YOU like living on your knees Kane. I DO NOT!
>>
>>> Then you should stop doing so. Ranters are, whether they know it or
>>> not, always on their knees. Screaming threats at people, or agencies
>>> ensures that you will continue to make yourself a target of them.
>>>
>>>> If you are eager to drop to your knees and perform oral sex on CPS
>>>> then the A-Team isn't for you.
>>> Fixated, aren't you?
>>>
>>>> You can whine about how expensive we are.
>>> It's all accusations, isn't it Ken. No proof.
>>>
>>> What have you actually produced for your pay.
>>>
>>>> If you have
>>>> some YANKEE BACKBONE and want to kick their asses ALL THE WAY OUT of
>>>> your life - then we're worth our hire.
>>> What's your score so far?
>>
>> Somewhere in the 90th Percentile.
>>
>>

0:->

January 15th 07, 07:32 PM

0:-> wrote:
> correction at ***. Should read "Dan ***CAN'T do" not
> "Dan can do."

Looks like I need another cup of tea and a break.

My original was correct, and I misread it as a mistake. Retract my
correction back to "not even Dan can do"

Thanks again. Let's see if I puckered this one up, shall we....R R R R R R

kANE THE CofFEE DEPriveD. <twitch twitch>

>
> Thank you for your indulgence of my error and correction.
>
>
> 0:-> wrote:
>> krp wrote:
>>> "0:->" > wrote in message
>>> news:bJidnVa3rLlfJjbYnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@scnresearch. com...
>>>
>>>>>> ... when in fact Greg and crew have given the most dangerous kinds
>>>>>> of advice to families, have NEVER helped a single family recover
>>>>>> their children or escape CPS clutches.
>>>
>>>>>> Their envy, their personally motivated, because of their own
>>>>>> failures, deep hatred of Kane and Dan, is obvious in this and many
>>>>>> other posts from them.
>>>
>>>>>> Rather than learn, rather than accept success, they claim it
>>>>>> either didn't happen, or isn't 'really' success.
>>>
>>>>> Success by knuckling under to a police state prison?
>>>
>>>> What knuckling under are you referring to, specifically?
>>>
>>> Allowing them to run your life. Kissing their ass.
>>
>> Which them are you referring to, CPS?
>>
>> Would you suggest violating a court order? And those things that are
>> backed by statute that they require of the person?
>>
>> I'm still not clear about this "knuckling under" thing.
>>
>> It so general that we could say that when my wife is tired and wants
>> me to cook dinner I'm knuckling under.
>>
>>>>> If being "allowed" (albeit temporarily) to have your children back
>>>>> is "success" then I suppose so.
>>>
>>>> "Albeit temporarily?"
>>>
>>> Yeah - temporarily. Another allegation and you have them back
>>> swarming you.
>>
>> Are you suggesting that once cleared of allegations, by any means,
>> yours as you claim to do them, and mine as I claim, that yours would
>> result in no possibility of another allegation?
>>
>> Do you know, clinically, what "Magical thinking" means?
>>
>> You appear to be indulging in it.
>>
>> But I could be wrong. Happens. 1974, August. The 17th. About 3:15
>> pm... that's the closest I can remember the last time.
>>
>> So, you are going to show me how your method will stop another
>> allegation being made.
>>
>> I await with baited breath.
>>
>> This is one not even Dan can do, as far as I know.
>>
>> And YOU can?
>>
>> Oh goody. Complete freedom for families.
>>
>> Can I borrow this tactic of yours, or must I pay for it?
>>
>>>>> If kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever and NEVER having to
>>>>> answer to those assholes again isn't "success" then I don't know
>>>>> what is.
>>>
>>>> List those cases where you have succeeded by your methods.
>>>
>>> Go to the website a few of them are listed.
>>
>> No. You made the claim here "kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever
>> and NEVER having to answer to those assholes again ... " is what you
>> call success.
>>
>> Prove it. Prove you can do that.
>>
>>> Since you are so HIGH in VOCAL, ask Leslie.
>>
>> The last poster, and current attributions show you are addressing:
>>
>> "> "0:->" > wrote in message"
>>
>> I have never been a member of VOCAL. I don't know Leslie to ask. Be so
>> kind then as to post them here yourself.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>>>> It is standing up and fighting when you are innocent.
>>>
>>>> You bet. What makes you think the families that Dan or I help don't
>>>> stand up and fight?
>>>
>>> By what you say about cooperating.
>>
>> What am I saying about "cooperating?"
>>
>> Are you cooperating when you pay your bills?
>>
>> Are you cooperating when the judge sends you to driving school and you
>> go?
>>
>>>>> Regardless of the cost.
>>>
>>>> Whoops! You got to be kidding. What if the cost is your kids?
>>>
>>> That wasn't a cost I was referring to. $$$
>>
>> What do you do for that up front fee, if I may ask?
>>
>>>>> Getting the *******s out of dictating your life and having CONTROL
>>>>> over your children.
>>>
>>>> This society insists on just that. Few don't.
>>>
>>> When you sign up, to COOPERATE- to a "performance plan" you live
>>> the rest of your life under their direction. You have acceeeded to
>>> their "JURISDICTION."
>>
>> "Rest of your life? Really?
>>
>> For a consultant you are remarkably stupid, Ken. Or uninformed.
>>
>> Wherever you LIVE is the government's executive branch jurisdiction in
>> your location...be it city, county, or state. Or for that matter,
>> federal.
>>
>> There is no escaping "jurisdiction." Well, death will do it.
>>
>> You run to China and you simply have a new jurisdiction.
>>
>> If you have come to the government's attention, and action is taken
>> against you you have options of how to handle it.
>>
>> An all out war seems a bit extreme at the front end, don't you think?
>>
>> You appear to be someone that comes in later in the game...because you
>> are about court, trial, jury, etc.
>>
>> Most of what we discuss here is how to avoid ever getting there.
>>
>> I'm as enthusiastic about a vigorous defense AT TRIAL as you are.
>> Possibly in some cases moreso.
>>
>> The events leading up to trial is were we differ.
>>
>> I do not wish to drive to the state TO trial, so it would seem logical
>> to me to manage the pretrial period in ways that would tend to avoid
>> trial.
>>
>> Of course that wouldn't make me any money if I were a TRIAL consultant
>> of some kind.
>>
>> So I don't make any. And since I'm not paid anyway, I don't make any
>> anyway.
>>
>> If the agent or agents of the state I'm dealing with are acting within
>> the confines of statute and stated policy then it would be foolish of
>> me to challenge them on all issues.
>>
>> I suggest challenge only as lostintranslation mentioned...on those
>> issues that are not relevant.
>>
>> The ones that are neutral or relevant I suggest you do and do well.
>>
>> Now if you wish to challenge the statute at some point, I'm all for
>> that, but I won't ask parents to risk their children doing a crusade.
>>
>> Those can take years, and that can amount to the child's childhood.
>>
>> After the trial, if one wishes to risk it and wants to invest the time
>> and effort, I'm all for reforming child protection practice based on
>> statute.
>>
>> Now we come to the good part.
>>
>> If the agents of the state are operating OUTSIDE the law ... violating
>> statute, policy, and acceptable social work practice, then THEN, I've
>> got them.
>>
>> But do I want to telegraph my punches?
>>
>> Do I want a confrontation that warns them I'm going to be coming for
>> them?
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> I will let them do what they do, make reasonable protests, and go
>> along with them. I will record their actions and my protests, and in
>> court that will be where I draw my power from.
>>
>> If they stop when I make reasonably voiced protests, all well and
>> good. If they do not, and they are in violation of my rights, breaking
>> the law, they are mine.
>>
>> Dan has done this repeatedly.
>>
>> I less so because most of my work was with relatives attempting to get
>> their kin away from CPS.
>>
>> Our work together had more to do with changing policy so the tack was
>> different.
>>
>> If you wish to make war with CPS early on, then your way is great.
>>
>> And it will get people in deep enough, with CPS girding it's loins for
>> battle sufficiently to ensure large large fees for long drawn out
>> legal fights.
>>
>> We have a difference of opinion here.
>>
>> On your part, a failure to communicate.
>>
>> 0:->
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>> Having to live a life in FEAR and kissing stupid case workers'
>>>>> asses for the rest of your bloody life.
>>>
>>>> What makes you think that's the case with the folks Dan and I have
>>>> helped?
>>>
>>> By what yopu advocate Dan.
>>>
>>>> Have any of them told you that?
>>>
>>> Nope, would they?
>>>
>>>> What different status ensues when they get their children back your
>>>> way, if they have. Which I doubt.
>>>
>>> Our clients have never submitted to the CPS "jurisdiction" what
>>> you suggest would be having them do that. And I don't thgink you
>>> understand why the difference is important.
>>>
>>>>> Maybe YOU like living on your knees Kane. I DO NOT!
>>>
>>>> Then you should stop doing so. Ranters are, whether they know it or
>>>> not, always on their knees. Screaming threats at people, or agencies
>>>> ensures that you will continue to make yourself a target of them.
>>>>
>>>>> If you are eager to drop to your knees and perform oral sex on CPS
>>>>> then the A-Team isn't for you.
>>>> Fixated, aren't you?
>>>>
>>>>> You can whine about how expensive we are.
>>>> It's all accusations, isn't it Ken. No proof.
>>>>
>>>> What have you actually produced for your pay.
>>>>
>>>>> If you have
>>>>> some YANKEE BACKBONE and want to kick their asses ALL THE WAY OUT
>>>>> of your life - then we're worth our hire.
>>>> What's your score so far?
>>>
>>> Somewhere in the 90th Percentile.
>>>
>>>

Firemonkey

January 15th 07, 10:27 PM

Kane said
" I can't know, and don't want to publicly, precisely how firemonkey
managed this tactically, but my guess is she did much as I've suggested

in a recent post...just sent minutes ago."

I did it just as Dan recommended at fight cps,
You can go there and read his old posts, thats what I did and it
worked.
firemonkey

0:->

January 15th 07, 10:34 PM

Come on Greg, what are you waiting for. Attack another successful
parent, as you have always done in this newsgroup.

Don't let Firemonkey get away with saying that Dan's methods worked for
her.

If you don't speak up, call her a liar, a sock, a CPS suck shill, why
what will happen to your credibility with your rescuers here, eh?

Ken will disown you. For you see, Dan didn't make a penny, and Ken is in
it for the money.

Come on Greg, where arrrrrrrrrre you?

0:-]

Firemonkey wrote:
> Kane said
> " I can't know, and don't want to publicly, precisely how firemonkey
> managed this tactically, but my guess is she did much as I've suggested
>
> in a recent post...just sent minutes ago."
>
> I did it just as Dan recommended at fight cps,
> You can go there and read his old posts, thats what I did and it
> worked.
> firemonkey
>

inkspot

January 15th 07, 10:41 PM

0:-> wrote:
> Come on Greg, what are you waiting for. Attack another successful
> parent, as you have always done in this newsgroup.
>
> Don't let Firemonkey get away with saying that Dan's methods worked for
> her.
>
> If you don't speak up, call her a liar, a sock, a CPS suck shill, why
> what will happen to your credibility with your rescuers here, eh?
>
> Ken will disown you. For you see, Dan didn't make a penny, and Ken is in
> it for the money.
>
> Come on Greg, where arrrrrrrrrre you?

How does it feel to be consumed by another. To be controlled - your
thoughts hijacked so that all you can do time after time, day after day,
week after week, year after year - wake up and spend the day on the end
of Gregs leash.

When he had you do tricks for krp - I almost peed myself.

Dance monkeyboy, dance.

>
> 0:-]
>
>
> Firemonkey wrote:
>> Kane said
>> " I can't know, and don't want to publicly, precisely how firemonkey
>> managed this tactically, but my guess is she did much as I've suggested
>>
>> in a recent post...just sent minutes ago."
>>
>> I did it just as Dan recommended at fight cps,
>> You can go there and read his old posts, thats what I did and it
>> worked.
>> firemonkey
>>

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0:->

January 15th 07, 10:50 PM

inkspot wrote:
> 0:-> wrote:
>> Come on Greg, what are you waiting for. Attack another successful
>> parent, as you have always done in this newsgroup.
>>
>> Don't let Firemonkey get away with saying that Dan's methods worked
>> for her.
>>
>> If you don't speak up, call her a liar, a sock, a CPS suck shill, why
>> what will happen to your credibility with your rescuers here, eh?
>>
>> Ken will disown you. For you see, Dan didn't make a penny, and Ken is
>> in it for the money.
>>
>> Come on Greg, where arrrrrrrrrre you?
>
> How does it feel to be consumed by another. To be controlled - your
> thoughts hijacked so that all you can do time after time, day after day,
> week after week, year after year - wake up and spend the day on the end
> of Gregs leash.
>
> When he had you do tricks for krp - I almost peed myself.

Greg can help with that.

>
> Dance monkeyboy, dance.
>
>>
>> 0:-]
>>
>>
>> Firemonkey wrote:
>>> Kane said
>>> " I can't know, and don't want to publicly, precisely how firemonkey
>>> managed this tactically, but my guess is she did much as I've suggested
>>>
>>> in a recent post...just sent minutes ago."
>>>
>>> I did it just as Dan recommended at fight cps,
>>> You can go there and read his old posts, thats what I did and it
>>> worked.
>>> firemonkey
>>>
>

Greegor

January 15th 07, 10:59 PM

Is Firemonkey a sock?

0:->

January 15th 07, 11:01 PM

Greegor wrote:
> Is Firemonkey a sock?

No.

Is Michael here wearing a sock?

Leon Jives

January 15th 07, 11:04 PM

Greegor wrote:
> Is Firemonkey a sock?
>

Maybe not. Dan might be cloning these nit-wits in his basement.

Firemonkeys entire internet existance has been to suck Dan off in
public. His crotchmate so to speak. Nothing else seem to matter to the
monkey - it just sucks and sucks and sucks.

Maybe it's a coincidence. But...

Bwhahahahahahahahahahahh

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Firemonkey

January 15th 07, 11:14 PM

Greegor wrote:
> Is Firemonkey a sock?

I am not.
I am the woman who has kicked your ass and is not afraid to do it
again.
How did it feel to be bitched slapped by a girl? or the old man
grandfather?

I am a mother who holds her child everyday.
You are not a parent greg, you will never understand that bond, you
are too selfish.
I thank God you have never been allowed to breed.

Ignorant men like you disgust me.

Greegor

January 15th 07, 11:19 PM

Firemonkey wrote:
> Greegor wrote:
> > Is Firemonkey a sock?
>
> I am not.
> I am the woman who has kicked your ass and is not afraid to do it
> again.
> How did it feel to be bitched slapped by a girl? or the old man
> grandfather?
>
> I am a mother who holds her child everyday.
> You are not a parent greg, you will never understand that bond, you
> are too selfish.
> I thank God you have never been allowed to breed.
>
> Ignorant men like you disgust me.

Give it up Donald.

Leon Jives

January 15th 07, 11:23 PM

Leon Jives wrote:
> Greegor wrote:
>> Is Firemonkey a sock?
>>
>
> Maybe not. Dan might be cloning these nit-wits in his basement.
>
> Firemonkeys entire internet existance has been to suck Dan off in
> public. His crotchmate so to speak. Nothing else seem to matter to the
> monkey - it just sucks and sucks and sucks.
>
> Maybe it's a coincidence. But...
>
> Bwhahahahahahahahahahahh
>

Also - homosexuality seems to play a large part. Betty - Firemonkey -
LIT - all are men hating koo-koo's.

Don Fishers hyper-masculinity and the fact they all run to agressively
defend homosexuals using the latest arguments used by homosexual
propagandists across the net. Strange bunch these Fishers.

Go figure.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0:->

January 15th 07, 11:32 PM

Greegor wrote:
> Firemonkey wrote:
>> Greegor wrote:
>>> Is Firemonkey a sock?
>> I am not.
>> I am the woman who has kicked your ass and is not afraid to do it
>> again.
>> How did it feel to be bitched slapped by a girl? or the old man
>> grandfather?
>>
>> I am a mother who holds her child everyday.
>> You are not a parent greg, you will never understand that bond, you
>> are too selfish.
>> I thank God you have never been allowed to breed.
>>
>> Ignorant men like you disgust me.
>
> Give it up Donald.

That's the best you can do?

You seem obsessed with the Donald Fisher person.

And you can't deal with an assertive woman, obviously. Not even a little
six year old one.

0:->

Firemonkey

January 15th 07, 11:34 PM

Isn't it time for your haldol?

Leon Jives wrote:
> Leon Jives wrote:
> > Greegor wrote:
> >> Is Firemonkey a sock?
> >>
> >
> > Maybe not. Dan might be cloning these nit-wits in his basement.
> >
> > Firemonkeys entire internet existance has been to suck Dan off in
> > public. His crotchmate so to speak. Nothing else seem to matter to the
> > monkey - it just sucks and sucks and sucks.
> >
> > Maybe it's a coincidence. But...
> >
> > Bwhahahahahahahahahahahh
> >
>
> Also - homosexuality seems to play a large part. Betty - Firemonkey -
> LIT - all are men hating koo-koo's.
>
> Don Fishers hyper-masculinity and the fact they all run to agressively
> defend homosexuals using the latest arguments used by homosexual
> propagandists across the net. Strange bunch these Fishers.
>
> Go figure.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Leon Jives

January 15th 07, 11:43 PM

Firemonkey wrote:
> Isn't it time for your haldol?

Oh, and the assholes are top-posters too.

>
>
> Leon Jives wrote:
>> Leon Jives wrote:
>>> Greegor wrote:
>>>> Is Firemonkey a sock?
>>>>
>>> Maybe not. Dan might be cloning these nit-wits in his basement.
>>>
>>> Firemonkeys entire internet existance has been to suck Dan off in
>>> public. His crotchmate so to speak. Nothing else seem to matter to the
>>> monkey - it just sucks and sucks and sucks.
>>>
>>> Maybe it's a coincidence. But...
>>>
>>> Bwhahahahahahahahahahahh
>>>
>> Also - homosexuality seems to play a large part. Betty - Firemonkey -
>> LIT - all are men hating koo-koo's.
>>
>> Don Fishers hyper-masculinity and the fact they all run to agressively
>> defend homosexuals using the latest arguments used by homosexual
>> propagandists across the net. Strange bunch these Fishers.
>>
>> Go figure.
>>
>> --
>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Greegor

January 16th 07, 02:34 AM

Kane wrote > And you can't deal with an assertive woman, obviously.

Dressing in drag doesn't make you a woman Donald!

0:->

January 16th 07, 04:20 AM

Greegor wrote:

....yet another series of prattling nonsense posts that are fodder for
comic relief.

krp

January 16th 07, 11:50 AM

"Firemonkey" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I was helped by Dan, I got the kids back and kissed no ass at all, in
> fact I took a fine scalp, got the disturbed cw kicked off the case for
> lying, harrassing and abuse of power.
> I signed no service plan, ever.

Good for you!

Leon Jives

January 16th 07, 12:03 PM

Firemonkey wrote:
> I was helped by Dan, I got the kids back and kissed no ass at all, in
> fact I took a fine scalp, got the disturbed cw kicked off the case
> for lying, harrassing and abuse of power. I signed no service plan,
> ever.

Dan has been at it for many years - the spattering of sock puppets
and/or parents he may have talked to/helped tell us little. We've
witnessed Dans agressiveness in seeking folks to 'help' - so - he has
advised hundreds.

Where are all the folk Dan has advised that didn't get the happy ending?

What about the children that have been lost to foster care forever
because of Dans instability and ignorance?

All these years - Dan can't document one win

How 'bout all those folks Dan 'advised'? - how 'bout the mountains of
misery his narcissism has caused these innocent parents?

Dan's a real wiener all right - a real big wiener.

>
> You haters miss the point completely.
>
>
> krp wrote:
>> "0:->" > wrote in message
>> news:bJidnVa3rLlfJjbYnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@scnresearch. com...
>>
>>>>> ... when in fact Greg and crew have given the most dangerous
>>>>> kinds of advice to families, have NEVER helped a single
>>>>> family recover their children or escape CPS clutches. Their
>>>>> envy, their personally motivated, because of their own
>>>>> failures, deep hatred of Kane and Dan, is obvious in this and
>>>>> many other posts from them. Rather than learn, rather than
>>>>> accept success, they claim it either didn't happen, or isn't
>>>>> 'really' success.
>>>> Success by knuckling under to a police state prison?
>>> What knuckling under are you referring to, specifically?
>> Allowing them to run your life. Kissing their ass.
>>
>>>> If being "allowed" (albeit temporarily) to have your children
>>>> back is "success" then I suppose so.
>>> "Albeit temporarily?"
>> Yeah - temporarily. Another allegation and you have them back
>> swarming you.
>>
>>>> If kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever and NEVER having
>>>> to answer to those assholes again isn't "success" then I don't
>>>> know what is.
>>> List those cases where you have succeeded by your methods.
>> Go to the website a few of them are listed. Since you are so HIGH
>> in VOCAL, ask Leslie.
>>
>>>> It is standing up and fighting when you are innocent.
>>> You bet. What makes you think the families that Dan or I help
>>> don't stand up and fight?
>> By what you say about cooperating.
>>
>>>> Regardless of the cost.
>>> Whoops! You got to be kidding. What if the cost is your kids?
>> That wasn't a cost I was referring to. $$$
>>
>>>> Getting the *******s out of dictating your life and having
>>>> CONTROL over your children.
>>> This society insists on just that. Few don't.
>> When you sign up, to COOPERATE- to a "performance plan" you live
>> the rest of your life under their direction. You have acceeeded to
>> their "JURISDICTION."
>>
>>>> Having to live a life in FEAR and kissing stupid case workers'
>>>> asses for the rest of your bloody life.
>>> What makes you think that's the case with the folks Dan and I
>>> have helped?
>> By what yopu advocate Dan.
>>
>>> Have any of them told you that?
>> Nope, would they?
>>
>>> What different status ensues when they get their children back
>>> your way, if they have. Which I doubt.
>> Our clients have never submitted to the CPS "jurisdiction" what you
>> suggest would be having them do that. And I don't thgink you
>> understand why the difference is important.
>>
>>>> Maybe YOU like living on your knees Kane. I DO NOT!
>>> Then you should stop doing so. Ranters are, whether they know it
>>> or not, always on their knees. Screaming threats at people, or
>>> agencies ensures that you will continue to make yourself a target
>>> of them.
>>>
>>>> If you are eager to drop to your knees and perform oral sex on
>>>> CPS then the A-Team isn't for you.
>>> Fixated, aren't you?
>>>
>>>> You can whine about how expensive we are.
>>> It's all accusations, isn't it Ken. No proof.
>>>
>>> What have you actually produced for your pay.
>>>
>>>> If you have some YANKEE BACKBONE and want to kick their asses
>>>> ALL THE WAY OUT of your life - then we're worth our hire.
>>> What's your score so far?
>> Somewhere in the 90th Percentile.
>

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

krp

January 16th 07, 12:07 PM

"0:->" > wrote in message
news:deKdnasUQ7TdTjbYnZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@scnresearch. com...
>>>>> ... when in fact Greg and crew have given the most dangerous kinds of
>>>>> advice to families, have NEVER helped a single family recover their
>>>>> children or escape CPS clutches.
>>
>>>>> Their envy, their personally motivated, because of their own failures,
>>>>> deep hatred of Kane and Dan, is obvious in this and many other posts
>>>>> from them.
>>
>>>>> Rather than learn, rather than accept success, they claim it either
>>>>> didn't happen, or isn't 'really' success.
>>
>>>> Success by knuckling under to a police state prison?
>>
>>> What knuckling under are you referring to, specifically?
>>
>> Allowing them to run your life. Kissing their ass.

> Which them are you referring to, CPS?

Yes.

> Would you suggest violating a court order? And those things that are
> backed by statute that they require of the person?

I suggest opposing such orders in the first place. Appearing without a
lawyer and agreeing to CPS running your life has many risks.

> I'm still not clear about this "knuckling under" thing.

Any time you sign a "performance plan" you are submitting to CPS'
juridiction over you. Look up the term "Parens Patriae" and see what it
means. And then "In Loco Parentis"

What it means warms the hear of any good Gestapo agent - "THE STATE IS
THE PARENT!"

> It so general that we could say that when my wife is tired and wants me
> to cook dinner I'm knuckling under.

Is that the way you feel? If you don't cook will she leave and take your
children from you?

>>>> If being "allowed" (albeit temporarily) to have your children back is
>>>> "success" then I suppose so.

>>> "Albeit temporarily?"

>> Yeah - temporarily. Another allegation and you have them back
>> swarming you.

> Are you suggesting that once cleared of allegations, by any means, yours
> as you claim to do them, and mine as I claim, that yours would result in
> no possibility of another allegation?

Cleared? Or just that they couldn't prove it? When your clients are
"cleared" by your marvelous work, does CPS purge their files of the family
data?

> Do you know, clinically, what "Magical thinking" means?

Yep it's what you do lots.

> You appear to be indulging in it.

Nope - I indulge in hard work.

> But I could be wrong. Happens. 1974, August. The 17th. About 3:15 pm...
> that's the closest I can remember the last time.

Yeah I know, a legend in your own mind.

> So, you are going to show me how your method will stop another allegation
> being made.

Typically our clients don't face repeat investigations.

> I await with baited breath.

See if this hard for you to understand. Let's take sexual abuse
allegations. Incest or pedophilia. Sexual orientation isn't subject to
fluctuation. I am going to use terms and if you can't understand them and
can't look them up to understand them then it's your problem. Human beings
along the developmental plane achieve at some point sexual differentiation.
They become what they will be with sexual identity. Despite the claims of
fanatic Christian fundamentalists, you can't pray away being homosexual. Are
you "born" that way? Nobody knows for sure. But we do know that at some
point in your life (usually before age 14) your sexual identity becomes
fixed. It's not subject to change. In extreme circumstanes (prison) your
behavior might change. But your basic sexual nature doesn't.

You may not understand this part. But when you fully document a person's
sexual basis it remains fixed. You don't wake up on Monday and tell yourself
that you'll be gay that day. Then Tuesday you'll be a peophile. And on
Wednesday into bestiality. So you exhaustively test with the best science
has to detect that sexual identity. In most people it can be ascertained
with a sufficient degree of scientific certainty. The point is that it
doesn't change. So if you adequately document that fact in an overwhelmingly
conclusive way, new allegations 3 years down the road are not going to have
the same reactions as the first one. It becomes a much simplet investigation
to see if any external forces have changed.

> This is one not even Dan can do, as far as I know.

> And YOU can?

Me alone? No. The TEAM - - - YES!

> Oh goody. Complete freedom for families.

Sadly there are no total gurantees in life except death and taxes. The
world is filled with morons just like usenet.

> Can I borrow this tactic of yours, or must I pay for it?

It's a bit more than a "tactic" its a process. Others have tried to copy
it. They have problems with the "almost" bug.

>>>> If kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever and NEVER having to answer
>>>> to those assholes again isn't "success" then I don't know what is.

>>> List those cases where you have succeeded by your methods.

>> Go to the website a few of them are listed.

> No. You made the claim here "kicking CPS' ass OUT of your live forever and
> NEVER having to answer to those assholes again ... " is what you call
> success.

> Prove it. Prove you can do that.

Again look at the website. One agency had to shell out $25 million.

Dan Sullivan

January 16th 07, 02:09 PM

Leon Jives wrote:
> Firemonkey wrote:
> > I was helped by Dan, I got the kids back and kissed no ass at all, in
> > fact I took a fine scalp, got the disturbed cw kicked off the case
> > for lying, harrassing and abuse of power. I signed no service plan,
> > ever.
>
> Dan has been at it for many years - the spattering of sock puppets
> and/or parents he may have talked to/helped tell us little.

What did they tell you?

> We've
> witnessed Dans agressiveness in seeking folks to 'help' - so - he has
> advised hundreds.

What aggressiveness?

> Where are all the folk Dan has advised that didn't get the happy ending?

You tell me.

> What about the children that have been lost to foster care forever
> because of Dans instability and ignorance?

No lost children, no instability, no ignorance.

> All these years - Dan can't document one win

The families document the wins for me.

> How 'bout all those folks Dan 'advised'? - how 'bout the mountains of
> misery his narcissism has caused these innocent parents?

The only misery I've caused is in the hearts and minds of the people
who refuse to accept the fact that many families have posted their
thanks to me for my help in getting their children back from CPS.

Leon Jives

January 16th 07, 02:33 PM

Dan Sullivan wrote:
> Leon Jives wrote:
>> Firemonkey wrote:
>>> I was helped by Dan, I got the kids back and kissed no ass at all, in
>>> fact I took a fine scalp, got the disturbed cw kicked off the case
>>> for lying, harrassing and abuse of power. I signed no service plan,
>>> ever.
>> Dan has been at it for many years - the spattering of sock puppets
>> and/or parents he may have talked to/helped tell us little.
>
> What did they tell you?
>
>> We've
>> witnessed Dans agressiveness in seeking folks to 'help' - so - he has
>> advised hundreds.
>
> What aggressiveness?
>
>> Where are all the folk Dan has advised that didn't get the happy ending?
>
> You tell me.
>
>> What about the children that have been lost to foster care forever
>> because of Dans instability and ignorance?
>
> No lost children, no instability, no ignorance.
>
>> All these years - Dan can't document one win
>
> The families document the wins for me.
>
>> How 'bout all those folks Dan 'advised'? - how 'bout the mountains of
>> misery his narcissism has caused these innocent parents?
>
> The only misery I've caused is in the hearts and minds of the people
> who refuse to accept the fact that many families have posted their
> thanks to me for my help in getting their children back from CPS.
>

That's not true. I have heard from many folks who say you are a
nin-come-poop. One person said you advised them to be 'proactive' and
take a drug test BEFORE it was court ordered. That ****ty advice cost
them their kids. You are mentally unstable and ignorant of CPS 'facts on
the ground'.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0:->

January 16th 07, 05:32 PM

Leon Jives wrote:
> Dan Sullivan wrote:
>> Leon Jives wrote:
>>> Firemonkey wrote:
>>>> I was helped by Dan, I got the kids back and kissed no ass at all, in
>>>> fact I took a fine scalp, got the disturbed cw kicked off the case
>>>> for lying, harrassing and abuse of power. I signed no service plan,
>>>> ever.
>>> Dan has been at it for many years - the spattering of sock puppets
>>> and/or parents he may have talked to/helped tell us little.
>>
>> What did they tell you?
>>
>>> We've
>>> witnessed Dans agressiveness in seeking folks to 'help' - so - he has
>>> advised hundreds.
>>
>> What aggressiveness?
>>
>>> Where are all the folk Dan has advised that didn't get the happy ending?
>>
>> You tell me.
>>
>>> What about the children that have been lost to foster care forever
>>> because of Dans instability and ignorance?
>>
>> No lost children, no instability, no ignorance.
>>
>>> All these years - Dan can't document one win
>>
>> The families document the wins for me.
>>
>>> How 'bout all those folks Dan 'advised'? - how 'bout the mountains of
>>> misery his narcissism has caused these innocent parents?
>>
>> The only misery I've caused is in the hearts and minds of the people
>> who refuse to accept the fact that many families have posted their
>> thanks to me for my help in getting their children back from CPS.
>>
>
> That's not true. I have heard from many folks who say you are a
> nin-come-poop.

Could WE hear from them too? 0:-}

> One person said you advised them to be 'proactive' and
> take a drug test BEFORE it was court ordered.

Well, if the accusation is IN, then the court order is surely coming.

If it's coming, imagine how it looks to the judge to see a UA dated
BEFORE he issued the order. Damn, now that's HOT.

What it would say to me, where I da'judge is this: "What the **** is CPS
doing here claiming this isn't a fit parent. It looks to ME like he so
loves his kid that he'd submit to a test BEFORE it's asked for."

> That ****ty advice cost
> them their kids.

Noooo...really? Who was it. I want to send them my condolences and ask
them to explain how they are going to give Dan some payback.

Feel free to send their name to me privately, or better, ask them to get
in touch with me. I'd love to chat with them.

I've been looking for holes in Sullivan's methods.

You seem to have found one. 0:->

> You are mentally unstable and ignorant of CPS 'facts on
> the ground'.

Dan?

Hmmmm....I wonder who all those folks are that post their thanks here
and I've exchanged E-mails with. Dan's a duffer when it comes to things
like nyms and anonymous remailers.

But, but, do you suppose all of them could be HIM?

I'd love to catch him at being all those folks as him wearing a sock.

You'll note how I treat cheats, frauds, and liars here.

And when I've been fooled I'm even tougher on the perps.

So, give me some proof.

I'M OUT TO GET DAN SULLIVAN.

Kane The Enforcer

krp

January 16th 07, 10:13 PM

"0:->" > wrote in message
news:a5SdnXqoBoXUkTDYnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@scnresearch. com...
>
>> That's not true. I have heard from many folks who say you are a
>> nin-come-poop.
>
> Could WE hear from them too? 0:-}

How long have you been hearing these voices in your head?

When did you start to feel so many people were out to get you?

When was the last time the Aliens visited you?

Please advise the Aliens that I said they are putting the probe in too
deeply.

0:->

January 16th 07, 11:06 PM

krp wrote:
> "0:->" > wrote in message
> news:a5SdnXqoBoXUkTDYnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@scnresearch. com...
>>> That's not true. I have heard from many folks who say you are a
>>> nin-come-poop.
>> Could WE hear from them too? 0:-}
>
>
> How long have you been hearing these voices in your head?

Ah, then you understood my question of the poster.
>
> When did you start to feel so many people were out to get you?
>
Never have. I get ignored a whole lot. I kind of like the quiet life
myself.

No need to be in control, or get much attention. My dog is devoted, my
wife appears by her actions to love me, and the only one I really feel
is out to get me is my wife's little arrogant cat.

And it's not fair, because I like HER, and feed and water her.

She will not sit on my lap. And has been known to **** next to my shoes.

What an insult, coming from a cat, of course.

> When was the last time the Aliens visited you?

I just watched a magnificent video on the Throatsingers of Tuva. I'd
love it if they visited. The sound of them alone is glorious, and in
chorus indescribable. It gives me goosebumps just to tell you about it.

What a wonderful people and such a glorious country.

Could you arrange for these aliens to visit me, or even locally?

I'd be forever indebted.

> Please advise the Aliens that I said they are putting the probe in too
> deeply.

Tuvans don't do that. They just sing that remarkable earth shaking music
out of their throats, more than one tone at a time from one person.

You wouldn't believe the sound comes from a human at all...like some
orchestral instrument.

I hope, before you die, that you too will get a chance to hear them.

Look for the video, Ghengis Blues. There's an American blind Bluesman
involved who learned to sing the same way.

Best wishes.

Kane

Leon Jives

January 16th 07, 11:49 PM

0:-> wrote:
> Leon Jives wrote:
>> Dan Sullivan wrote:
>>> Leon Jives wrote:
>>>> Firemonkey wrote:
>>>>> I was helped by Dan, I got the kids back and kissed no ass at all, in
>>>>> fact I took a fine scalp, got the disturbed cw kicked off the case
>>>>> for lying, harrassing and abuse of power. I signed no service plan,
>>>>> ever.
>>>> Dan has been at it for many years - the spattering of sock puppets
>>>> and/or parents he may have talked to/helped tell us little.
>>>
>>> What did they tell you?
>>>
>>>> We've
>>>> witnessed Dans agressiveness in seeking folks to 'help' - so - he has
>>>> advised hundreds.
>>>
>>> What aggressiveness?
>>>
>>>> Where are all the folk Dan has advised that didn't get the happy
>>>> ending?
>>>
>>> You tell me.
>>>
>>>> What about the children that have been lost to foster care forever
>>>> because of Dans instability and ignorance?
>>>
>>> No lost children, no instability, no ignorance.
>>>
>>>> All these years - Dan can't document one win
>>>
>>> The families document the wins for me.
>>>
>>>> How 'bout all those folks Dan 'advised'? - how 'bout the mountains of
>>>> misery his narcissism has caused these innocent parents?
>>>
>>> The only misery I've caused is in the hearts and minds of the people
>>> who refuse to accept the fact that many families have posted their
>>> thanks to me for my help in getting their children back from CPS.
>>>
>>
>> That's not true. I have heard from many folks who say you are a
>> nin-come-poop.
>
> Could WE hear from them too? 0:-}

No. They have all ask to remain anonymous. Dan has posted the personal
details of parents who 'disagree' with his advice.

ie: Mr. Hanson

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0:->

January 17th 07, 12:05 AM

Leon Jives wrote:
> 0:-> wrote:
>> Leon Jives wrote:
>>> Dan Sullivan wrote:
>>>> Leon Jives wrote:
>>>>> Firemonkey wrote:
>>>>>> I was helped by Dan, I got the kids back and kissed no ass at all, in
>>>>>> fact I took a fine scalp, got the disturbed cw kicked off the case
>>>>>> for lying, harrassing and abuse of power. I signed no service plan,
>>>>>> ever.
>>>>> Dan has been at it for many years - the spattering of sock puppets
>>>>> and/or parents he may have talked to/helped tell us little.
>>>>
>>>> What did they tell you?
>>>>
>>>>> We've
>>>>> witnessed Dans agressiveness in seeking folks to 'help' - so - he has
>>>>> advised hundreds.
>>>>
>>>> What aggressiveness?
>>>>
>>>>> Where are all the folk Dan has advised that didn't get the happy
>>>>> ending?
>>>>
>>>> You tell me.
>>>>
>>>>> What about the children that have been lost to foster care forever
>>>>> because of Dans instability and ignorance?
>>>>
>>>> No lost children, no instability, no ignorance.
>>>>
>>>>> All these years - Dan can't document one win
>>>>
>>>> The families document the wins for me.
>>>>
>>>>> How 'bout all those folks Dan 'advised'? - how 'bout the mountains of
>>>>> misery his narcissism has caused these innocent parents?
>>>>
>>>> The only misery I've caused is in the hearts and minds of the people
>>>> who refuse to accept the fact that many families have posted their
>>>> thanks to me for my help in getting their children back from CPS.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's not true. I have heard from many folks who say you are a
>>> nin-come-poop.
>>
>> Could WE hear from them too? 0:-}
>
> No. They have all ask to remain anonymous.

I recommend it. <grin>

> Dan has posted the personal
> details of parents who 'disagree' with his advice.

What personal details?

> ie: Mr. Hanson

What personal details?

Everything Dan has posted is public knowledge.

And it's posted by Greg himself.

Can you be more specific, Dennis?

Dan Sullivan

January 17th 07, 12:14 AM

Leon Jives wrote:
> 0:-> wrote:
> > Leon Jives wrote:
> >> Dan Sullivan wrote:
> >>> Leon Jives wrote:
> >>>> Firemonkey wrote:
> >>>>> I was helped by Dan, I got the kids back and kissed no ass at all, in
> >>>>> fact I took a fine scalp, got the disturbed cw kicked off the case
> >>>>> for lying, harrassing and abuse of power. I signed no service plan,
> >>>>> ever.
> >>>> Dan has been at it for many years - the spattering of sock puppets
> >>>> and/or parents he may have talked to/helped tell us little.
> >>>
> >>> What did they tell you?
> >>>
> >>>> We've
> >>>> witnessed Dans agressiveness in seeking folks to 'help' - so - he has
> >>>> advised hundreds.
> >>>
> >>> What aggressiveness?
> >>>
> >>>> Where are all the folk Dan has advised that didn't get the happy
> >>>> ending?
> >>>
> >>> You tell me.
> >>>
> >>>> What about the children that have been lost to foster care forever
> >>>> because of Dans instability and ignorance?
> >>>
> >>> No lost children, no instability, no ignorance.
> >>>
> >>>> All these years - Dan can't document one win
> >>>
> >>> The families document the wins for me.
> >>>
> >>>> How 'bout all those folks Dan 'advised'? - how 'bout the mountains of
> >>>> misery his narcissism has caused these innocent parents?
> >>>
> >>> The only misery I've caused is in the hearts and minds of the people
> >>> who refuse to accept the fact that many families have posted their
> >>> thanks to me for my help in getting their children back from CPS.
> >>>
> >>
> >> That's not true. I have heard from many folks who say you are a
> >> nin-come-poop.
> >
> > Could WE hear from them too? 0:-}
>
> No. They have all ask to remain anonymous. Dan has posted the personal
> details of parents who 'disagree' with his advice.
>
> ie: Mr. Hanson

F him and F you.

Since his girlfriend's daughter was removed Greg could have spent a
year each on SIX of the methods recommended by various Family Rights
groups advice on how to beat CPS.

And I say it again, F him and F you.

Greg is, by choice, the posterboy for losing to CPS when the child
removed wasn't their's.

krp

January 17th 07, 01:07 PM

"0:->" > wrote in message
...
> krp wrote:
>> "0:->" > wrote in message
>> news:a5SdnXqoBoXUkTDYnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@scnresearch. com...
>>>> That's not true. I have heard from many folks who say you are a
>>>> nin-come-poop.
>>> Could WE hear from them too? 0:-}
>>
>>
>> How long have you been hearing these voices in your head?
>
> Ah, then you understood my question of the poster.
>>
>> When did you start to feel so many people were out to get you?
>>
> Never have. I get ignored a whole lot. I kind of like the quiet life
> myself.
>
> No need to be in control, or get much attention. My dog is devoted, my
> wife appears by her actions to love me, and the only one I really feel is
> out to get me is my wife's little arrogant cat.

Kane you are a CONTROL FREAK!

0:->

January 17th 07, 05:32 PM

krp wrote:
> "0:->" > wrote in message
> ...
>> krp wrote:
>>> "0:->" > wrote in message
>>> news:a5SdnXqoBoXUkTDYnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@scnresearch. com...
>>>>> That's not true. I have heard from many folks who say you are a
>>>>> nin-come-poop.
>>>> Could WE hear from them too? 0:-}
>>>
>>> How long have you been hearing these voices in your head?
>> Ah, then you understood my question of the poster.
>>> When did you start to feel so many people were out to get you?
>>>
>> Never have. I get ignored a whole lot. I kind of like the quiet life
>> myself.
>>
>> No need to be in control, or get much attention. My dog is devoted, my
>> wife appears by her actions to love me, and the only one I really feel is
>> out to get me is my wife's little arrogant cat.
>
> Kane you are a CONTROL FREAK!

I am not the originator of the lies by others I ask them to support with
proof.

As far as I know, and I DO know, that is not a common characteristic of
people with control issues.

I notice that you keep snipping my posts without any acknowledgment you
are doing so.

It seems you wish them to appear to mean something that could only be so
by the removal of the full context of my post.

I think that might have a little something to do with control issues,
don't you?

I notice also that you have, and I think I've seen you do it before,
removed the indicator of who I'm actually addressing that your respond
to....another poster is missing from the "SoandSo wrote:" line.

Why would you do that I wonder?

Failure to attribute fully, or to acknowledge that you have removed
parts of the original post, would appear to me to BE a control issue, Ken.

I believe I've caught you cutting addies of formerly included newsgroups
as well, Ken. Why would you not want them to see your words..or your lies?

(Naturally, out of courtesy to any there following this exchange, I've
returned the addy to the address list....you are welcome 0:-]...let's
see if you cut it from your reply to this post.)

You want this thread to go a certain way it will not if you left all
commentary, so you simply remove them, give out of context retorts, and
change the thread's direction...or attempt to.

Ken, I've a real surprise for you.

You, indeed, ARE a "control freak."

You've run into someone that can argue better than you (and it's not
difficult at all) and so you have to crank up what you DO know how to
do, lie, to the point it becomes obvious even to a casual observer.

My ability to recall and repost your lying is your undoing.

You are outed as a liar, Ken.

I'm not even proud of it. It was far too easy.

You are a piker.

0:->

Greegor

January 17th 07, 07:13 PM

Kane wrote
> You are outed as a liar, Ken.

Coming from Kane it is like getting HATE MAIL from Hitler.

I once had a work reference that was derogatory.
I had blatantly MADE the guy's operation
and he didn't want me working for a competitor.
The guy was so notorious that his bad reference
was actually a good sign.
I was immediately hired and within 6 months the
second operation became larger than the first guy's.

Congratulations on the great reference Ken!

krp

January 17th 07, 07:37 PM

"0:->" > wrote in message
news:NeCdnff2KoA5wDPYnZ2dnUVZ_rCsnZ2d@scnresearch. com...
> krp wrote:

>>>>>> That's not true. I have heard from many folks who say you are a
>>>>>> nin-come-poop.
>>>>> Could WE hear from them too? 0:-}

>>>> How long have you been hearing these voices in your head?
>>> Ah, then you understood my question of the poster.
>>>> When did you start to feel so many people were out to get you?
>>>>
>>> Never have. I get ignored a whole lot. I kind of like the quiet life
>>> myself.
>>>
>>> No need to be in control, or get much attention. My dog is devoted, my
>>> wife appears by her actions to love me, and the only one I really feel
>>> is out to get me is my wife's little arrogant cat.
>>
>> Kane you are a CONTROL FREAK!

> I am not the originator of the lies by others I ask them to support with
> proof.

But you NEVER really do yourself. Thus far NONE of your sources has
panned out. NONE of them on ANY subject you and I have locked horns on.
You made a fool of yourself on the SAC dolls. You're not intelligent enough
to realize it. You gave 3 LINKS, you DO so love LINKS, don't you? Two of
them are to the same MANUFACTURER, their material would be self-serving AT
BEST, IF they supported your claims of "scientific valifity" and offeres
studies to back it up, BUT - it didn't. Tehn you TRIED to use a cas elaw
decision fdrom Ohio - Ohio v. Boston to FALSELY CLAIM (That's be a LIE Kane)
that the decision proved that the SAC Dolls HAD, in fact, been accepted into
evidence. In FACT the opinion says the OPPOSITE. BUT you LIE away and make
DUST.

> As far as I know, and I DO know, that is not a common characteristic of
> people with control issues.

But you DO originate the bull**** and demand others submit to it no
matter how grandly your claims ate proven FALSE. (See above)

> I notice that you keep snipping my posts without any acknowledgment you
> are doing so.

I don't need to. You snipped mine without acknowledgement. I quote only
what I am responding to not IRRELEVANT bull**** not related to your most
recent BULL**** claim. People het sick of 4 gb ranting flames.

> I think that might have a little something to do with control issues,
> don't you?

No I think DEMANDING people believe BULL**** is a control issue.

> I believe I've caught you cutting addies of formerly included newsgroups
> as well, Ken. Why would you not want them to see your words..or your lies?

1 `Desperately appealing to the reserves are you Kane? Feeling a bit
alone and defenseless as ferwer and fewer people support your ****? Of what
relavence is the Dads group other than calling up your HERO Moore????
"Please David Moore SAVE me say something bad aboutm ken! HELP ME!"

> (Naturally, out of courtesy to any there following this exchange, I've
> returned the addy to the address list....you are welcome 0:-]...let's see
> if you cut it from your reply to this post.)

And I took it right back off dickhead. There is NO reason for it to be
there.

> You are outed as a liar, Ken. I'm not even proud of it. It was far too
> easy.

Kane spare me your self congratulatory delusions. You're the one who has
been repeatedly shown to be the liar here.