Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests --Jon Rappaport talks to retired vaccine researcher

[carole]

Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests
04/18/2008
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=87&Itemid=71
By Jon Rappoport.
A retired vaccine researcher goes public on what the pharmaceutical industry and the health authorities don't want us to know: that
vaccines are unsafe, untested and one of the greatest frauds of our time.

"...no proper long-term studies are done on any vaccines using a control group. Part of what I mean is, no correct and deep
follow-up is done, taking into account the fact that vaccins can induce, over time, various symptoms and serious problems which fall
outside the range of the disease for which the person was vaccinated. Again, the assumption is made that vaccines do not cause
problems. So why should anyone check? On top of that, a vaccine reaction is defined so that all bad reactions are said to occur very
soon after the shot is given. But that does not make sense."

"...the burden of proof in establishing the safety and efficacy of vaccines is on the people who manufacture and license them for
public use. Just that. The burden of proof is not on you or me. And for proof you need well-designed, long-term studies. You need
extensive follow-up. You need to interview mothers and pay attention to what mothers say about their babies and what happens to them
after vaccination. You need all these things --the things that are not there."

"...If I had a child now, the last thing I would allow is vaccintion. I would move out of the state if I had to. I would change the
family name. I would disappear. With my family. I'm not saying it would come to that. There are ways to sidestep the system with
grace, if you know how to act. There are exemptions you can declare, in every State, basedon religious and/or philosophic views. But
if push came to shove, I would go on the move."

"In America there are groups of mothers who are testifying about autism and childhood vaccines. They are coming forward and standing
up at meetings. They are essentially trying to fill the gap that has been created by the researchers and doctors who turn their
backs on the whole thing."

--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"There are known knowns - there are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns - that is to say, there are things that we know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns - there are things we don't know we don't know." -- Donald Rumsfeld

[dr_jeff]

On 10/26/10 10:15 PM, carole wrote:
> Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests
> 04/18/2008
> http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=87&Itemid=71
> By Jon Rappoport.
> A retired vaccine researcher goes public on what the pharmaceutical industry and the health authorities don't want us to know: that
> vaccines are unsafe, untested and one of the greatest frauds of our time.

Tell that to all those people who died of small pox last year. What?
Thanks to vaccines, there are none. THere are far fewer cases of
mealses, mumps, rubella-related birth defects, chicken pox, polio, Hib
invasive disease and other diseases thanks to vaccines, as well.

Please keep your anti-vaccine, anti-children crap off the news groups.

Jeff

<rest of garbage deleted>

[carole]

"dr_jeff" > wrote in message ...
> On 10/26/10 10:15 PM, carole wrote:
>> Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests
>> 04/18/2008
>> http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=87&Itemid=71
>> By Jon Rappoport.
>> A retired vaccine researcher goes public on what the pharmaceutical industry and the health authorities don't want us to know:
>> that
>> vaccines are unsafe, untested and one of the greatest frauds of our time.
>
> Tell that to all those people who died of small pox last year. What? Thanks to vaccines, there are none. THere are far fewer cases
> of mealses, mumps, rubella-related birth defects, chicken pox, polio, Hib invasive disease and other diseases thanks to vaccines,
> as well.
>
> Please keep your anti-vaccine, anti-children crap off the news groups.

Excuse me Jeff, but important little facts like vaccinations never having been scientifically tested to show they are safe, are
important.
You would be the first to say that alternative medicine was crap and that it had never been tested.
Well here we have an allopathic modality that has never been scientifically tested.
You lot can't take what you dish out.


--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer finally admits it -"I am a tool"
http://groups.google.com.au/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/22282720e7d41e35?hl=en&&q=%22America%27s+mental+illness+epidemic%22

[carole]

"dr_jeff" > wrote in message ...
> On 10/26/10 10:15 PM, carole wrote:
>> Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests
>> 04/18/2008
>> http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=87&Itemid=71
>> By Jon Rappoport.
>> A retired vaccine researcher goes public on what the pharmaceutical industry and the health authorities don't want us to know:
>> that
>> vaccines are unsafe, untested and one of the greatest frauds of our time.
>
> Tell that to all those people who died of small pox last year. What? Thanks to vaccines, there are none. THere are far fewer cases
> of mealses, mumps, rubella-related birth defects, chicken pox, polio, Hib invasive disease and other diseases thanks to vaccines,
> as well.
>
> Please keep your anti-vaccine, anti-children crap off the news groups.

You put your anti-alternative medicine crap on the alternative health newsgroup.


--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
Most people have built in "slides" that short circuit the mind's critical examination process when it comes to certain sensitive
topics. "Slides" is a CIA term for a conditioned type of response which dead-ends a person's thinking, and terminates debate or
examination of the topic. For example, the mention of the word "conspiracy" usually solicits a slide response with many
eople. -Fritz Springmeier (author)

[Martin[_4_]]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:19:08 +1100, "carole" >
wrote:

>
>"dr_jeff" > wrote in message ...
>> On 10/26/10 10:15 PM, carole wrote:
>>> Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests
>>> 04/18/2008
>>> http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=87&Itemid=71
>>> By Jon Rappoport.
>>> A retired vaccine researcher goes public on what the pharmaceutical industry and the health authorities don't want us to know:
>>> that
>>> vaccines are unsafe, untested and one of the greatest frauds of our time.
>>
>> Tell that to all those people who died of small pox last year. What? Thanks to vaccines, there are none. THere are far fewer cases
>> of mealses, mumps, rubella-related birth defects, chicken pox, polio, Hib invasive disease and other diseases thanks to vaccines,
>> as well.
>>
>> Please keep your anti-vaccine, anti-children crap off the news groups.
>
>Excuse me Jeff, but important little facts like vaccinations never having been scientifically tested to show they are safe, are
>important.

Why? I though science could not prove anything? Or is science suddenly
important when it is convenient to you?

>You would be the first to say that alternative medicine was crap and that it had never been tested.
>Well here we have an allopathic modality that has never been scientifically tested.
>You lot can't take what you dish out.

[carole]

"Bob Officer" <-*-*.@.*-*-> wrote in message ...
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:32:45 -0400, in misc.health.alternative,
> dr_jeff > wrote:
>
>>On 10/26/10 10:15 PM, carole wrote:
>>> Vaccine Dangers and Vested Interests
>>> 04/18/2008
>>> http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=87&Itemid=71
>>> By Jon Rappoport.
>>> A retired vaccine researcher goes public on what the pharmaceutical industry and the health authorities don't want us to know:
>>> that
>>> vaccines are unsafe, untested and one of the greatest frauds of our time.
>>
>>Tell that to all those people who died of small pox last year. What?
>>Thanks to vaccines, there are none. THere are far fewer cases of
>>mealses, mumps, rubella-related birth defects, chicken pox, polio, Hib
>>invasive disease and other diseases thanks to vaccines, as well.
>
> Points to Tetanus death rates last year. compares to pre-vaccine era.
>
>
>
>>Please keep your anti-vaccine, anti-children crap off the news groups.
>><rest of garbage deleted>

What about the correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations?

>
> Thank you.

For being a moron?

>
>
> --
> Bob Officer
>
> "One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
> out of ...but you go right ahead"
> Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
> om>

--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer finally admits it -"I am a tool"
http://groups.google.com.au/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/22282720e7d41e35?hl=en&&q=%22America%27s+mental+illness+epidemic%22

[Steelclaws]

"carole" > wrote in
d.com:

> What about the correlation between autism and increase in
> vaccinations?

There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations. You
might just as well claim that there is a correlation between increased rate
of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the Scandinavian countries.

--
The trouble with the World is that the stupid are so confident
while the intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand Russell

[carole]

"Steelclaws" > wrote in message 4.39...
> "carole" > wrote in
> d.com:
>
>> What about the correlation between autism and increase in
>> vaccinations?
>
> There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations. You
> might just as well claim that there is a correlation between increased rate
> of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the Scandinavian countries.

There is an increase in autism.
There is an increase in vaccination.
Therefore a correlation.


--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"Nothing would be what it is, Because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise: what it is, it wouldn't be. And what it
wouldn't be, it would. You see?"
-Alice's Adventures In Wonderland, 1865, Lewis Carroll, English writer and mathematician.

[Steelclaws]

"carole" > wrote in
d.com:

>> There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations.
>> You might just as well claim that there is a correlation between
>> increased rate of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the
>> Scandinavian countries.
>
> There is an increase in autism.
> There is an increase in vaccination.
> Therefore a correlation.

Your logic is faulty.

There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
countries.
No correlation.

You see, during winter it's cold in those countries, people don't buy
much ice-cream and the waters are frozen. Ice-cream sales increase
during summer months when the weather is warm. As the waters are no
longer frozen, people drown more often, as they go swimming and boating,
than during the winter months. So there is no correlation between the
two: increased ice-cream sales do not cause more deaths by drowning.

You're simply seeing a correlation where there is none.


Besides all that, your resistance to learning is really something else.
Could you finally try to understand where the increase in autism
spectrum disorders comes from? It comes from the increased criteria in
diagnosing autism spectrum disorders.

--
The trouble with the World is that the stupid are so confident
while the intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand Russell

[carole]

"Steelclaws" > wrote in message 4.39...
> "carole" > wrote in
> d.com:
>
>>> There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations.
>>> You might just as well claim that there is a correlation between
>>> increased rate of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the
>>> Scandinavian countries.
>>
>> There is an increase in autism.
>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>> Therefore a correlation.
>
> Your logic is faulty.
>
> There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
> There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
> countries.
> No correlation.

My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen in tandem or simultaneously.
They don't have to prove that they are connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.

If two things happen at the same rate they are said to show a correlation.
Then it is up to the researchers to work out if there is a causal connection.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/correlation
Statistics . the degree to which two or more attributes or measurements on the same group of elements show a tendency to vary
together.
statistics the extent of correspondence between the ordering of two variables. Correlation is positive or direct when two variables
move in the same direction and negative or inverse when they move in opposite directions

>
> You see, during winter it's cold in those countries, people don't buy
> much ice-cream and the waters are frozen. Ice-cream sales increase
> during summer months when the weather is warm. As the waters are no
> longer frozen, people drown more often, as they go swimming and boating,
> than during the winter months. So there is no correlation between the
> two: increased ice-cream sales do not cause more deaths by drowning.
>
> You're simply seeing a correlation where there is none.

You're confusing correlation with direct relationship.

> Besides all that, your resistance to learning is really something else.
> Could you finally try to understand where the increase in autism
> spectrum disorders comes from? It comes from the increased criteria in
> diagnosing autism spectrum disorders.

The following website has a good coverage of vaccination topics.
In this article they try to find adults with autism, which would show that the numbers have always been there just differently
diagnosed. However, they didn't find them.

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/uksurveyautismlink/
Survey Authors Couldn't Find Enough Adult Autistics
"There were early rumours in 2008 the authors could not find numbers of adult ASC cases matching numbers in children."

It seems there is a massive coverup on vaccination dangers.
The government won't admit anything, the files have to be prised open, nobody is admitting anything. Yet there does seem to be a lot
of damming data.

--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"There are known knowns - there are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns - that is to say, there are things that we know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns - there are things we don't know we don't know." -- Donald Rumsfeld

[dr_jeff]

On 10/29/10 3:37 AM, carole wrote:
> > wrote in message 4.39...
>> > wrote in
>> d.com:
>>
>>> What about the correlation between autism and increase in
>>> vaccinations?
>>
>> There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations. You
>> might just as well claim that there is a correlation between increased rate
>> of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the Scandinavian countries.
>
> There is an increase in autism.
> There is an increase in vaccination.
> Therefore a correlation.

More accurately, there is no causal correlation. The two have nothing to
do with each other.

[Steelclaws]

"carole" > wrote in
d.com:

>>> There is an increase in autism.
>>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>>> Therefore a correlation.
>>
>> Your logic is faulty.
>>
>> There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
>> There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
>> countries.
>> No correlation.
>
> My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen
> in tandem or simultaneously. They don't have to prove that they are
> connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.

So selling more ice-cream causes more deaths by drowning, according to
your logic... Not in real life.

If you use random things that happen in tandem as correlation, you'll
end up with false results.

> If two things happen at the same rate they are said to show a
> correlation. Then it is up to the researchers to work out if there is
> a causal connection.

Quite a few things happen at the same rate, but linking random things
together is absolutely useless. Or do you seriously think that increased
use of mobile phones correlates with dropping rate of vaccine-
preventable diseases since 2000?

>> Besides all that, your resistance to learning is really something
>> else. Could you finally try to understand where the increase in
>> autism spectrum disorders comes from? It comes from the increased
>> criteria in diagnosing autism spectrum disorders.
>
> The following website has a good coverage of vaccination topics.
> In this article they try to find adults with autism, which would show
> that the numbers have always been there just differently diagnosed.
> However, they didn't find them.
>
> http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/uksurveyautismlink/
> Survey Authors Couldn't Find Enough Adult Autistics
> "There were early rumours in 2008 the authors could not find numbers
> of adult ASC cases matching numbers in children."

"The overall prevalence of ASD, using the threshold of a score of 10 on
the ADOS to indicate a positive case, was 1.0% of the adult population
in England (equivalent to a rate of 10 per thousand). A total of 19
cases was identified, because only a sub-sample of respondents was
selected for a phase two interview. This small base means that great
caution is required in interpreting the population distribution of ASD
(particularly among women). Had all respondents gone through to a phase
two interview, we estimate that about 72 cases would have been
identified in the sample as a whole."
http://tinyurl.com/me9h6r (This is the NHS article the childhealthsafety
liars used in that article)

UK rate of childhood autism is 1 per 1000, so there were in reality the
same rate of adults with autism spectrum disorders. Either the
childhealthsafety (if that isn't a misleading name, then I don't know
what is...) morons cannot read or they lie. I suspect it's the latter.
http://www.treehouse.org.uk/tell-autism/autism-uk (for childhood rate of
autism in the UK)

> It seems there is a massive coverup on vaccination dangers.
> The government won't admit anything, the files have to be prised open,
> nobody is admitting anything. Yet there does seem to be a lot of
> damming data.

It seems that there are unscrupulous anti-vaxxer liars who won't think
twice about lying and obviously hope nobody checks their references. Too
bad for the liars, but I will check those - and know enough to
understand what the articles say.

--
The trouble with the World is that the stupid are so confident
while the intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand Russell

[dr_jeff]

On 10/29/10 7:17 PM, Steelclaws wrote:
> > wrote in
> d.com:
>
>>>> There is an increase in autism.
>>>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>>>> Therefore a correlation.
>>>
>>> Your logic is faulty.
>>>
>>> There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
>>> There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
>>> countries.
>>> No correlation.
>>
>> My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen
>> in tandem or simultaneously. They don't have to prove that they are
>> connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.
>
> So selling more ice-cream causes more deaths by drowning, according to
> your logic... Not in real life.

Or, drowning causes more ice cream sales.

There has to be a mechanism for causation to work.

Jeff

[Steelclaws]

dr_jeff > wrote in
:

> On 10/29/10 7:17 PM, Steelclaws wrote:
>> > wrote in
>> d.com:
>>
>>>>> There is an increase in autism.
>>>>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>>>>> Therefore a correlation.
>>>>
>>>> Your logic is faulty.
>>>>
>>>> There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
>>>> There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
>>>> countries.
>>>> No correlation.
>>>
>>> My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen
>>> in tandem or simultaneously. They don't have to prove that they are
>>> connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.
>>
>> So selling more ice-cream causes more deaths by drowning, according
to
>> your logic... Not in real life.
>
> Or, drowning causes more ice cream sales.
>
> There has to be a mechanism for causation to work.

That's what I'm trying to explain to carole, but she's not getting it.

--
The trouble with the World is that the stupid are so confident
while the intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand Russell

[dr_jeff]

On 10/29/10 9:26 PM, Steelclaws wrote:
> > wrote in
> :
>
>> On 10/29/10 7:17 PM, Steelclaws wrote:
>>> > wrote in
>>> d.com:
>>>
>>>>>> There is an increase in autism.
>>>>>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>>>>>> Therefore a correlation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your logic is faulty.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
>>>>> There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
>>>>> countries.
>>>>> No correlation.
>>>>
>>>> My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen
>>>> in tandem or simultaneously. They don't have to prove that they are
>>>> connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.
>>>
>>> So selling more ice-cream causes more deaths by drowning, according
> to
>>> your logic... Not in real life.
>>
>> Or, drowning causes more ice cream sales.
>>
>> There has to be a mechanism for causation to work.
>
> That's what I'm trying to explain to carole, but she's not getting it.

You're not going to convince Carole or Jan Drew of anything. Both lack
have the ability to do any independent thinking. They're both true
believers.

The people to whom I really am speaking are thinking people who have
heard misinformation about vaccines and still have an open mind.

Jeff

[Steelclaws]

dr_jeff > wrote in
:

> On 10/29/10 9:26 PM, Steelclaws wrote:
>> > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> On 10/29/10 7:17 PM, Steelclaws wrote:
>>>> > wrote in
>>>> d.com:
>>>>
>>>>>>> There is an increase in autism.
>>>>>>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>>>>>>> Therefore a correlation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your logic is faulty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian
countries.
>>>>>> There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
>>>>>> countries.
>>>>>> No correlation.
>>>>>
>>>>> My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that
happen
>>>>> in tandem or simultaneously. They don't have to prove that they
are
>>>>> connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.
>>>>
>>>> So selling more ice-cream causes more deaths by drowning, according
>> to
>>>> your logic... Not in real life.
>>>
>>> Or, drowning causes more ice cream sales.
>>>
>>> There has to be a mechanism for causation to work.
>>
>> That's what I'm trying to explain to carole, but she's not getting
it.
>
> You're not going to convince Carole or Jan Drew of anything. Both lack
> have the ability to do any independent thinking. They're both true
> believers.

I know. Most of my posts are really aimed at the onlookers.

I killfiled Jan ages ago, as there is to point even to talking to her,
and she did not ever post anything of interest while I was still reading
them.

> The people to whom I really am speaking are thinking people who have
> heard misinformation about vaccines and still have an open mind.

About the same here, though I deal with pseudoscience, SCAM and nonsense
in general as well.

--
The trouble with the World is that the stupid are so confident
while the intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand Russell

[carole]

"Bob Officer" <-*-*.@.*-*-> wrote in message ...
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:44:53 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
> "carole" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Steelclaws" > wrote in message 4.39...
>>> "carole" > wrote in
>>> d.com:
>>>
>>>>> There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations.
>>>>> You might just as well claim that there is a correlation between
>>>>> increased rate of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the
>>>>> Scandinavian countries.
>>>>
>>>> There is an increase in autism.
>>>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>>>> Therefore a correlation.
>>>
>>> Your logic is faulty.
>>>
>>> There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
>>> There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
>>> countries.
>>> No correlation.
>>
>>My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen in tandem or simultaneously.
>>They don't have to prove that they are connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.
>
> Close. They must have correspondence and show cause and effect and
> they have to somehow be coupled to show causality. which it doesn't.

Not necessarily show cause and effect, only that they move in the same direction together.
If somebody says there is a correlation between the amount of something and the incidence of another thing, it is said to show a
correlation.
Doesn't prove there is causal effect necessarily, but you'd look for one.

>
> The actual causality for the increase in numbers is the increased
> criteria of inclusion. Plain, simple and in tandem and completely
> coupled. Causality which is far more important than correlation.
>
> Statistics 1, college level math. What you have is a type one error,
> a false pattern. Correlation means nothing, causality and coupling is
> everything in this case.
>
> As the use of gel pens increased so did the reported incidence of
> autism. That is false. no causality or coupling of case and effect.
>
>
>
>
>>If two things happen at the same rate they are said to show a correlation.
>>Then it is up to the researchers to work out if there is a causal connection.
>>
>>http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/correlation
>>Statistics . the degree to which two or more attributes or measurements on the same group of elements show a tendency to vary
>>together.
>>statistics the extent of correspondence between the ordering of two variables. Correlation is positive or direct when two
>>variables
>>move in the same direction and negative or inverse when they move in opposite directions
>>
>>>
>>> You see, during winter it's cold in those countries, people don't buy
>>> much ice-cream and the waters are frozen. Ice-cream sales increase
>>> during summer months when the weather is warm. As the waters are no
>>> longer frozen, people drown more often, as they go swimming and boating,
>>> than during the winter months. So there is no correlation between the
>>> two: increased ice-cream sales do not cause more deaths by drowning.
>>>
>>> You're simply seeing a correlation where there is none.
>>
>>You're confusing correlation with direct relationship.
>>
>>> Besides all that, your resistance to learning is really something else.
>>> Could you finally try to understand where the increase in autism
>>> spectrum disorders comes from? It comes from the increased criteria in
>>> diagnosing autism spectrum disorders.
>>
>>The following website has a good coverage of vaccination topics.
>>In this article they try to find adults with autism, which would show that the numbers have always been there just differently
>>diagnosed. However, they didn't find them.
>>
>>http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/uksurveyautismlink/
>>Survey Authors Couldn't Find Enough Adult Autistics
>>"There were early rumours in 2008 the authors could not find numbers of adult ASC cases matching numbers in children."
>>
>>It seems there is a massive coverup on vaccination dangers.
>>The government won't admit anything, the files have to be prised open, nobody is admitting anything. Yet there does seem to be a
>>lot
>>of damming data.
>
> --
> Bob Officer
>
> "One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
> out of ...but you go right ahead"
> Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
> om>


--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer finally admits it -"I am a tool"
http://groups.google.com.au/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/22282720e7d41e35?hl=en&&q=%22America%27s+mental+illness+epidemic%22

[carole]

"Bob Officer" <-*-*.@.*-*-> wrote in message ...
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:37:23 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
> "carole" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Steelclaws" > wrote in message 4.39...
>>> "carole" > wrote in
>>> d.com:
>>>
>>>> What about the correlation between autism and increase in
>>>> vaccinations?
>>>
>>> There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations. You
>>> might just as well claim that there is a correlation between increased rate
>>> of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the Scandinavian countries.
>
> This is false logic.
>
>>There is an increase in autism.
>>There is an increase in vaccination.
>>Therefore a correlation.
>
> So is this false:
>
> there is an increase in automobiles
> there is an increase in autism
> therefore a correlation

Oh, I see where you're going wrong bob. You don't understand the meaning of the word "correlation".
You should look it up for yourself ...I looked it up once but you didn't seem to pay attention.
Maybe you'll appreciate it more if you do the work yourself.

Once a correlation, meaning a possible connection, established, it is then up to science to do the testing to see if it is true.
However, the testing isn't being done.

Vaccine dangers and vested interests
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=24&Itemid=71&limitstart=10

"A retired vaccine researcher goes public on what the pharmaceutical industry and the health authorities don't want us to know: that
vaccines are unsafe, untested and one of the greatest frauds of our time."




<smartarse crap snipped> --

You are a true moron bob, and I doubt there is any hope for you because you are too arrogant to admit the error of your ways.
You rant and rail against others using ad hominem attacks ie attacking the person, yet you resort to this tactic over and over.
You are a true ****wit.


--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer finally admits it -"I am a tool"
http://groups.google.com.au/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/22282720e7d41e35?hl=en&&q=%22America%27s+mental+illness+epidemic%22

[dr_jeff]

On 10/30/10 8:27 AM, carole wrote:
> "Bob Officer"<-*-*.@.*-*-> wrote in message ...
>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:44:53 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > wrote in message 4.39...
>>>> > wrote in
>>>> d.com:
>>>>
>>>>>> There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations.
>>>>>> You might just as well claim that there is a correlation between
>>>>>> increased rate of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the
>>>>>> Scandinavian countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is an increase in autism.
>>>>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>>>>> Therefore a correlation.
>>>>
>>>> Your logic is faulty.
>>>>
>>>> There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
>>>> There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
>>>> countries.
>>>> No correlation.
>>>
>>> My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen in tandem or simultaneously.
>>> They don't have to prove that they are connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.
>>
>> Close. They must have correspondence and show cause and effect and
>> they have to somehow be coupled to show causality. which it doesn't.
>
> Not necessarily show cause and effect, only that they move in the same direction together.

Yeah, so what? The amount of oil burned for energy moves in the same
direction, with the rates of diagnosed autism, too.

> If somebody says there is a correlation between the amount of something and the incidence of another thing, it is said to show a
> correlation.

Yeah, so what? It doesn't mean causation.

> Doesn't prove there is causal effect necessarily, but you'd look for one.

Yeah, and a causal role for vaccines in autism has been looked for. And
one has not been found. Another way to show that vaccines cause autism
would be a mechanism. Not one viable mechanism has been found. There is
also evidence that indicates that autism is caused by other things, like
genetics and development.

<...>

[dr_jeff]

On 10/30/10 8:44 AM, carole wrote:
> "Bob Officer"<-*-*.@.*-*-> wrote in message ...
>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:37:23 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > wrote in message 4.39...
>>>> > wrote in
>>>> d.com:
>>>>
>>>>> What about the correlation between autism and increase in
>>>>> vaccinations?
>>>>
>>>> There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations. You
>>>> might just as well claim that there is a correlation between increased rate
>>>> of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the Scandinavian countries.
>>
>> This is false logic.
>>
>>> There is an increase in autism.
>>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>>> Therefore a correlation.
>>
>> So is this false:
>>
>> there is an increase in automobiles
>> there is an increase in autism
>> therefore a correlation
>
> Oh, I see where you're going wrong bob. You don't understand the meaning of the word "correlation".

One meaning of correlation is that if you know one value something, you
can use that value to predict the value of something else. So, if you
know the number of cars sold in one year, you can predict the number of
cases of autism or vice versa. In this case, the correlation has a
common cause - both the sales of cars and the number of cases of autism
is going up over time. One is not causing the other.

> You should look it up for yourself ...I looked it up once but you didn't seem to pay attention.
> Maybe you'll appreciate it more if you do the work yourself.
>
> Once a correlation, meaning a possible connection, established, it is then up to science to do the testing to see if it is true.
> However, the testing isn't being done.

Again, you're wrong about the testing not being done.

Here is an article in the Wall Street Journal about how scientists are
looking for the cause of autism.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703422904575039351632663996.html

Here are some studies being done to examine autism:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703422904575039351632663996.html

Here is one look at MMR combined vaccine vs. measles vaccine as a cause
of autism.

http://journals.lww.com/pidj/Abstract/2010/05000/Lack_of_Association_Between_Measles_Mumps_Rubella. 3.aspx

And this is a review article: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/588033

> Vaccine dangers and vested interests
> http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=24&Itemid=71&limitstart=10
>
> "A retired vaccine researcher goes public on what the pharmaceutical industry and the health authorities don't want us to know: that
> vaccines are unsafe, untested and one of the greatest frauds of our time."

Who is the retired vaccine researcher?

> <smartarse crap snipped> --
>
> You are a true moron bob, and I doubt there is any hope for you because you are too arrogant to admit the error of your ways.
> You rant and rail against others using ad hominem attacks ie attacking the person, yet you resort to this tactic over and over.
> You are a true ****wit.

Pot, meet kettle.

[carole]

"dr_jeff" > wrote in message ...
> On 10/30/10 8:27 AM, carole wrote:
>> "Bob Officer"<-*-*.@.*-*-> wrote in message ...
>>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:44:53 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> > wrote in message 4.39...
>>>>> > wrote in
>>>>> d.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations.
>>>>>>> You might just as well claim that there is a correlation between
>>>>>>> increased rate of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the
>>>>>>> Scandinavian countries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is an increase in autism.
>>>>>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>>>>>> Therefore a correlation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your logic is faulty.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
>>>>> There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
>>>>> countries.
>>>>> No correlation.
>>>>
>>>> My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen in tandem or simultaneously.
>>>> They don't have to prove that they are connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.
>>>
>>> Close. They must have correspondence and show cause and effect and
>>> they have to somehow be coupled to show causality. which it doesn't.
>>
>> Not necessarily show cause and effect, only that they move in the same direction together.
>
> Yeah, so what? The amount of oil burned for energy moves in the same direction, with the rates of diagnosed autism, too.

So do you think its a likely cause of autism?
If not, why not?

Do you think its possible that vaccines cause autism?
If not why not?

>
>> If somebody says there is a correlation between the amount of something and the incidence of another thing, it is said to show a
>> correlation.
>
> Yeah, so what? It doesn't mean causation.
>
>> Doesn't prove there is causal effect necessarily, but you'd look for one.
>
> Yeah, and a causal role for vaccines in autism has been looked for. And one has not been found. Another way to show that vaccines
> cause autism would be a mechanism. Not one viable mechanism has been found. There is also evidence that indicates that autism is
> caused by other things, like genetics and development.
>

So what it the reason for the increase in autism?

[carole]

"dr_jeff" > wrote in message ...
> On 10/30/10 8:44 AM, carole wrote:
>> "Bob Officer"<-*-*.@.*-*-> wrote in message ...
>>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:37:23 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> > wrote in message 4.39...
>>>>> > wrote in
>>>>> d.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What about the correlation between autism and increase in
>>>>>> vaccinations?
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations. You
>>>>> might just as well claim that there is a correlation between increased rate
>>>>> of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the Scandinavian countries.
>>>
>>> This is false logic.
>>>
>>>> There is an increase in autism.
>>>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>>>> Therefore a correlation.
>>>
>>> So is this false:
>>>
>>> there is an increase in automobiles
>>> there is an increase in autism
>>> therefore a correlation
>>
>> Oh, I see where you're going wrong bob. You don't understand the meaning of the word "correlation".
>
> One meaning of correlation is that if you know one value something, you can use that value to predict the value of something else.
> So, if you know the number of cars sold in one year, you can predict the number of cases of autism or vice versa. In this case,
> the correlation has a common cause - both the sales of cars and the number of cases of autism is going up over time. One is not
> causing the other.

Yes, I know what correlation means.

If something shows a correlation, it can be looked at as a likely cause and studies done.
Correlation doesn't mean there is a cause and effect, merely that as one moves one way, so does the other.
It is then said to show a correlation.

>
>> You should look it up for yourself ...I looked it up once but you didn't seem to pay attention.
>> Maybe you'll appreciate it more if you do the work yourself.
>>
>> Once a correlation, meaning a possible connection, established, it is then up to science to do the testing to see if it is true.
>> However, the testing isn't being done.
>
> Again, you're wrong about the testing not being done.

There hasn't been adequate testing.
The whole thing is being covered up.



>
> Here is an article in the Wall Street Journal about how scientists are looking for the cause of autism.
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703422904575039351632663996.html
>
> Here are some studies being done to examine autism:
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703422904575039351632663996.html

These two above is the same article.

Here is a better link http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/ .

>
> Here is one look at MMR combined vaccine vs. measles vaccine as a cause of autism.
>
> http://journals.lww.com/pidj/Abstract/2010/05000/Lack_of_Association_Between_Measles_Mumps_Rubella. 3.aspx
>
> And this is a review article: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/588033
>
>> Vaccine dangers and vested interests
>> http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=24&Itemid=71&limitstart=10
>>
>> "A retired vaccine researcher goes public on what the pharmaceutical industry and the health authorities don't want us to know:
>> that
>> vaccines are unsafe, untested and one of the greatest frauds of our time."
>
> Who is the retired vaccine researcher?

You can read.

>
>> <smartarse crap snipped> --
>>
>> You are a true moron bob, and I doubt there is any hope for you because you are too arrogant to admit the error of your ways.
>> You rant and rail against others using ad hominem attacks ie attacking the person, yet you resort to this tactic over and over.
>> You are a true ****wit.
>

And don't accuse me of personal attacks unless you are prepared to do the same for the quaker prick.

--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"There are known knowns - there are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns - that is to say, there are things that we know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns - there are things we don't know we don't know." -- Donald Rumsfeld

[dr_jeff]

On 10/30/10 12:12 PM, carole wrote:
> > wrote in message ...
>> On 10/30/10 8:27 AM, carole wrote:
>>> "Bob Officer"<-*-*.@.*-*-> wrote in message ...
>>>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:44:53 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > wrote in message 4.39...
>>>>>> > wrote in
>>>>>> d.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations.
>>>>>>>> You might just as well claim that there is a correlation between
>>>>>>>> increased rate of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the
>>>>>>>> Scandinavian countries.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is an increase in autism.
>>>>>>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>>>>>>> Therefore a correlation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your logic is faulty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
>>>>>> There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
>>>>>> countries.
>>>>>> No correlation.
>>>>>
>>>>> My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen in tandem or simultaneously.
>>>>> They don't have to prove that they are connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.
>>>>
>>>> Close. They must have correspondence and show cause and effect and
>>>> they have to somehow be coupled to show causality. which it doesn't.
>>>
>>> Not necessarily show cause and effect, only that they move in the same direction together.
>>
>> Yeah, so what? The amount of oil burned for energy moves in the same direction, with the rates of diagnosed autism, too.
>
> So do you think its a likely cause of autism?
> If not, why not?
>
> Do you think its possible that vaccines cause autism?
> If not why not?

There is no plausible mechanism that would explain how autism might be
caused by vaccines. And all the good research done to day indicates that
autism is not caused by any vaccine.

>>> If somebody says there is a correlation between the amount of something and the incidence of another thing, it is said to show a
>>> correlation.
>>
>> Yeah, so what? It doesn't mean causation.
>>
>>> Doesn't prove there is causal effect necessarily, but you'd look for one.
>>
>> Yeah, and a causal role for vaccines in autism has been looked for. And one has not been found. Another way to show that vaccines
>> cause autism would be a mechanism. Not one viable mechanism has been found. There is also evidence that indicates that autism is
>> caused by other things, like genetics and development.
>>
>
> So what it the reason for the increase in autism?

Better diagnosis is the main reason why so many more kids are diagnosed
with autism. For example, in the LA area, a study found that the higher
the education level of the parents, the more likely they were to have
their kids diagnosed with autism. Most likely, with their better
education, they were able to get an accurate diagnosis for the problems
their kids were having. In addition, the diagnostic criteria for autism
spectrum diseases changed, resulting in more people diagnosed.

Jeff

[dr_jeff]

On 10/30/10 12:24 PM, carole wrote:
> > wrote in message ...
>> On 10/30/10 8:44 AM, carole wrote:
>>> "Bob Officer"<-*-*.@.*-*-> wrote in message ...
>>>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:37:23 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > wrote in message 4.39...
>>>>>> > wrote in
>>>>>> d.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What about the correlation between autism and increase in
>>>>>>> vaccinations?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations. You
>>>>>> might just as well claim that there is a correlation between increased rate
>>>>>> of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the Scandinavian countries.
>>>>
>>>> This is false logic.
>>>>
>>>>> There is an increase in autism.
>>>>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>>>>> Therefore a correlation.
>>>>
>>>> So is this false:
>>>>
>>>> there is an increase in automobiles
>>>> there is an increase in autism
>>>> therefore a correlation
>>>
>>> Oh, I see where you're going wrong bob. You don't understand the meaning of the word "correlation".
>>
>> One meaning of correlation is that if you know one value something, you can use that value to predict the value of something else.
>> So, if you know the number of cars sold in one year, you can predict the number of cases of autism or vice versa. In this case,
>> the correlation has a common cause - both the sales of cars and the number of cases of autism is going up over time. One is not
>> causing the other.
>
> Yes, I know what correlation means.
>
> If something shows a correlation, it can be looked at as a likely cause and studies done.

No, why would a correlation mean that something is a likely cause? The
vast majority of correlations are either coincidence (like autism and
vaccines) or have a common cause, but one doesn't cause the other (like
ice cream sales and rape - both go up with increased temperatures).

> Correlation doesn't mean there is a cause and effect, merely that as one moves one way, so does the other.
> It is then said to show a correlation.

Exactly.

>>> You should look it up for yourself ...I looked it up once but you didn't seem to pay attention.
>>> Maybe you'll appreciate it more if you do the work yourself.
>>>
>>> Once a correlation, meaning a possible connection, established, it is then up to science to do the testing to see if it is true.
>>> However, the testing isn't being done.
>>
>> Again, you're wrong about the testing not being done.
>
> There hasn't been adequate testing.
> The whole thing is being covered up.
>
>
>
>>
>> Here is an article in the Wall Street Journal about how scientists are looking for the cause of autism.
>>
>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703422904575039351632663996.html
>>
>> Here are some studies being done to examine autism:
>>
>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703422904575039351632663996.html
>
> These two above is the same article.
>
> Here is a better link http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/ .

Why would this be a better link? It has nothing to do with science. It
has to do with politics.

>> Here is one look at MMR combined vaccine vs. measles vaccine as a cause of autism.
>>
>> http://journals.lww.com/pidj/Abstract/2010/05000/Lack_of_Association_Between_Measles_Mumps_Rubella. 3.aspx
>>
>> And this is a review article: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/588033
>>
>>> Vaccine dangers and vested interests
>>> http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=24&Itemid=71&limitstart=10
>>>
>>> "A retired vaccine researcher goes public on what the pharmaceutical industry and the health authorities don't want us to know:
>>> that
>>> vaccines are unsafe, untested and one of the greatest frauds of our time."
>>
>> Who is the retired vaccine researcher?
>
> You can read.
>
>>
>>> <smartarse crap snipped> --
>>>
>>> You are a true moron bob, and I doubt there is any hope for you because you are too arrogant to admit the error of your ways.
>>> You rant and rail against others using ad hominem attacks ie attacking the person, yet you resort to this tactic over and over.
>>> You are a true ****wit.
>>
>
> And don't accuse me of personal attacks unless you are prepared to do the same for the quaker prick.
>

[carole]

"Bob Officer" <-*-*.@.*-*-> wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 23:27:24 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
> "carole" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Bob Officer" <-*-*.@.*-*-> wrote in message ...
>>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:44:53 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
>>> "carole" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Steelclaws" > wrote in message 4.39...
>>>>> "carole" > wrote in
>>>>> d.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no correlation between autism and increase in vaccinations.
>>>>>>> You might just as well claim that there is a correlation between
>>>>>>> increased rate of ice-cream sales and deaths by drowning in the
>>>>>>> Scandinavian countries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is an increase in autism.
>>>>>> There is an increase in vaccination.
>>>>>> Therefore a correlation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your logic is faulty.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is an increase of ice-cream sales in Scandinavian countries.
>>>>> There is an increase of deaths by drowning deaths in Scandinavian
>>>>> countries.
>>>>> No correlation.
>>>>
>>>>My understanding of the word "correlation" is two things that happen in tandem or simultaneously.
>>>>They don't have to prove that they are connected, merely that they happen at the same rate.
>>>
>>> Close. They must have correspondence and show cause and effect and
>>> they have to somehow be coupled to show causality. which it doesn't.
>>
>>Not necessarily show cause and effect, only that they move in the same direction together.
>
> No they don't Carole.
>
> They can be opposites also. See how incomplete you knowledge base is?

Well yes, I thought opposite too ...which goes without saying, but you thought fit to jump in and say it anyway.
As per the master of the bleeding obvious.

>
>>If somebody says there is a correlation between the amount of something
>>and the incidence of another thing, it is said to show a
>>correlation.
>
> The base of the great pyramid of giza (146.5 meters) and the common
> Bic Crystal Pen is 14.65mm in length. Some people would say (infer)
> there is some sort of correlation on the face of comparison of the
> two figures, but there is none at all. They are considered unrelated.
>
> Again you general lack of a working knowledge base shows you do not
> understand the correct usage of the word "correlation".

To show a correlation doesn't means to observe they work in tandem which is grounds for a likely cause and effect and further study,
dickhead.

>
>>Doesn't prove there is causal effect necessarily, but you'd look for one.
>
> I would. I would have to explore 1st if there is any actual
> relationship between the two.

Well really?
And what did I just finish saying numb-nuts?

Bob officer is a legend in his own mind.

--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer finally admits it -"I am a tool"
http://groups.google.com.au/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/22282720e7d41e35?hl=en&&q=%22America%27s+mental+illness+epidemic%22

[carole]

"Bob Officer" <-*-*.@.*-*-> wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 13:53:02 -0400, in misc.health.alternative,
> dr_jeff > wrote:
>

>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, I see where you're going wrong bob. You don't understand the meaning of the word "correlation".
>>>>
>>>> One meaning of correlation is that if you know one value something, you can use that value to predict the value of something
>>>> else.
>>>> So, if you know the number of cars sold in one year, you can predict the number of cases of autism or vice versa. In this case,
>>>> the correlation has a common cause - both the sales of cars and the number of cases of autism is going up over time. One is not
>>>> causing the other.

That would be a "proven correlation", whereas something can show a correlation without understanding any cause or effect.

>>>
>>> Yes, I know what correlation means.
>>>
>>> If something shows a correlation, it can be looked at as a likely cause and studies done.
>>
>>No, why would a correlation mean that something is a likely cause? The
>>vast majority of correlations are either coincidence (like autism and
>>vaccines) or have a common cause, but one doesn't cause the other (like
>>ice cream sales and rape - both go up with increased temperatures).
>>
>>> Correlation doesn't mean there is a cause and effect, merely that as one moves one way, so does the other.
>>> It is then said to show a correlation.
>>
>>Exactly.
>
> Not always.
>
> the Great Pyramid of Giza's base is 1460mters
> the length of a Bic's (crustal) pen is 1460mm

No, not always brother bob, but a valid definition all the same.

Spare us the illustration.
We all know how you like to baffle with bull**** and that you are a moron. <grin>


--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"The members of skeptical societies often operate from a faith, a faith known today as scientism, which is the worship of science,
believing its methods to be the only valid path to knowledge." --Wade Frazier, The Medical Racket.
http://www.ahealedplanet.net/medicine.htm