toxoplasmosis

[Rob]

I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She
insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of
toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not pregnant).
I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the
house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero
risk.

I've scoured the net and found sites that try to scare the crap out of
pregnant women, others that say even outdoor cats are a tiny risk, but
nothing that really discusses house cats. I'd like to find a good
documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving
me wrong. Thanks!

[jacquel]

The book Think Like a Cat by Pam Johnson-Bennett supports your argument.

Toxoplasmosis comes from the car's prey. If you have an indoor cat, then
presumably, they are not catching their own food and not consuming uncooked
meat. The parasite can also be caught from not preparing meat properly in
the kitchen, completely unrelated to the activity of a a cat.

The book suggests that if pregnant women wear gloves and/or wash their hands
while scooping they can remain safe.

jacquel

"Rob" > wrote in message
...
> I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She
> insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of
> toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not
pregnant).
> I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the
> house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero
> risk.
>
> I've scoured the net and found sites that try to scare the crap out of
> pregnant women, others that say even outdoor cats are a tiny risk, but
> nothing that really discusses house cats. I'd like to find a good
> documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something
proving
> me wrong. Thanks!
>
>

[She's A Goddess]

"Rob" > wrote in message
...
> I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She
> insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of
> toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not
pregnant).
> I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the
> house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero
> risk.

My recollection is that there is still a slight risk. I recollect this
because I turned over all duties of litter box cleaning to my DH when we had
a 100% indoor cat. Google "Hillary" and "toxoplasmosis". You should find a
wonderful sheet that she has written up and posted here many times that is
more informative than any lay person ever really needs :)


--
Rhiannon
Mom to M. Girl (2 3/4 years) and O. Boy (11 months)

[Vicky Bilaniuk]

[not cross posted, as usual for me]

Rob wrote:
> I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She
> insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of
> toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not pregnant).
> I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the
> house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero
> risk.
>
> I've scoured the net and found sites that try to scare the crap out of
> pregnant women, others that say even outdoor cats are a tiny risk, but
> nothing that really discusses house cats. I'd like to find a good
> documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving
> me wrong. Thanks!
>
>

Well if she ever becomes pregnant, she can have herself tested for
immunity. This is not what you're looking for, but I thought I would
mention it anyway.

I wish I could give you an actual answer to your question, but I've
never looked this up myself. I tend to not really listen to all the
hoopla about stuff like this - I find that people tend to go nuts when
it comes to pregnant women, and they don't necessarily think rationally.
I'm sure you've learned by now to ignore 99.9% of the websites out
there. ;-) Anyway, have you tried the literature? If you haven't
already done so, try looking around here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Entrez/

A couple of things I found:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14526331
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11876570

I have not done a thorough search, but I'm suspecting that no real study
has been done to determine just what the risk is with toxoplasmosis
(possibly because they can't really do one, as was mentioned in the
second article). Possibly all we know is that it's a potential cause,
but that's all. (oh, and it's not guaranteed to cause stillbirth - I
think a lot of people forget that) For some people, just knowing that
it's a cause is enough to make them worry.

[libbymom04]

In my opinion it is better to be safe than sorry when it comes to your
unborn children. I personally put my cat outside when I found out I was
pregnant. The research I did when I was pregnant I found that any cat
could put you at risk even if it is a small percent.

[Tori M.]

Well, it depends, I HAVE to change my cats litter because my husband said
"It is your cat, not mine." and since I dont want to get rid of the cat I
asked thedr if changing the cat box really put me at a high risk considering
these things.

1.) Toxoplasmosis is a 1 time only thing.
2.) I have had cats since I was born so the odds of me not already coming in
contact with it are slim.
3.) You can wear gloves while changing litter cutting your contact down even
more.

My dr. just said to be sure that I was my hands after I handle the litter
and I should be fine. And since really you should wash your hands ANYWAY I
guess that is good advice.

About the indoor/outdoor cat thing I would think that if the kittens mother
had the disease then the kittens would have it as well... so I dont think it
matters one way or the other. I would not say that any cat has a zero risk
of having it since at one point all cats are in the company of anouther cat.

Tori

--
Bonnie 3/20/02
Anna or Xavier due 10/17/04
"Rob" > wrote in message
...
> I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She
> insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of
> toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not
pregnant).
> I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the
> house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero
> risk.
>
> I've scoured the net and found sites that try to scare the crap out of
> pregnant women, others that say even outdoor cats are a tiny risk, but
> nothing that really discusses house cats. I'd like to find a good
> documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something
proving
> me wrong. Thanks!
>
>

[Ericka Kammerer]

Rob wrote:

> I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She
> insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of
> toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not pregnant).
> I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the
> house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero
> risk.
>
> I've scoured the net and found sites that try to scare the crap out of
> pregnant women, others that say even outdoor cats are a tiny risk, but
> nothing that really discusses house cats. I'd like to find a good
> documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving
> me wrong. Thanks!

*If* the cat has been completely and totally indoors for
more than 35 days, has eating *nothing* but commercially
prepared food (no hunting), and uses only its own litter
box, then the odds of the cat having toxoplasmosis are
extremely small. However, because the consequences to
the unborn child can be so devastating, it is recommended
that pregnant women err on the side of caution either by
not changing cat litter at all, or by wearing gloves and
cleaning the litter box twice a day and washing thoroughly
afterwards. If the cat does not meet all the above
conditions, there is a chance that the cat could have
toxoplasmosis. Roughly a third of all women have had
toxoplasmosis, and they mostly got it from their pet
cats, so it's hardly rare.
Of course, in addition, pregnancy women should
take caution with outdoor gardening and raw or undercooked
meats as well.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[Hillary Israeli]

In >,
Rob > wrote:

*I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She
*insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of
*toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not pregnant).
*I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the
*house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero
*risk.

It's not a bacteria, it is a parasite. Housecats absolutely can shed
oocysts which become infectious - but the oocysts have to sporulate 24 hrs
to do so.

You are both wrong.

http://www.hillary.net/school/toxo.txt

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Rob]

great article, thanks very much.

"Hillary Israeli" > wrote in message
...
> In >,
> Rob > wrote:
>
> *I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She
> *insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of
> *toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not
pregnant).
> *I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the
> *house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero
> *risk.
>
> It's not a bacteria, it is a parasite. Housecats absolutely can shed
> oocysts which become infectious - but the oocysts have to sporulate 24 hrs
> to do so.
>
> You are both wrong.
>
> http://www.hillary.net/school/toxo.txt
>
> --
> hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
> "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
> not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Jamie Clark]

Just offer to change the cat litter for her once she is pregnant. Don't
bother trying to WIN this argument. Just go for the bonus points. : )
--

Jamie & Taylor
Earth Angel, 1/3/03

Check out Taylor Marlys -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

Check out our Adoption Page at http://home.earthlink.net/~jamielee6


"Rob" > wrote in message
...
> I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She
> insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of
> toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not
pregnant).
> I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the
> house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero
> risk.
>
> I've scoured the net and found sites that try to scare the crap out of
> pregnant women, others that say even outdoor cats are a tiny risk, but
> nothing that really discusses house cats. I'd like to find a good
> documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something
proving
> me wrong. Thanks!
>
>

[Rob]

like i said, its an academic argument. she works in the childcare field and
is often involved with expectant mothers. she told me about her friend's
husband who has been changing the cat litter for 4 years now (her friend
told her husband that she's not supposed to change the litter while breast
feeding either, and has had three children right in a row).

"Jamie Clark" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Just offer to change the cat litter for her once she is pregnant. Don't
> bother trying to WIN this argument. Just go for the bonus points. : )
> --
>
> Jamie & Taylor
> Earth Angel, 1/3/03
>

[zolw]

Hi Rob;

I am not 100% sure of the info I am about to give you, but this is how I
understand this whole toxoplasmosis isssue.

An animal (not just cats) can be a carrier of toxoplasmosis, even if it
stays at home (it could have caught it from the mother)

Most (if not all) pregnant women have a blood test at the beginning of
their pregnancy to check for toxoplasmosis (cause it can cause defects).
What many women don't realize is that it is safer to test even before
conception. Also, when I had my dog, I had him checked for toxoplasmosis
at the vet. (it is somewhat expensive, but better safe than sorry)

A pregnant woman can clean whatever she wants to, but most pregnant
women opt not to (just precautions). Besides, usually you wash your
hands with soap after cleaning litter etc. The one thing that pregnant
women are advised to avoid is contact with rodents (such as mice,
hamsters etc) because they may carry a virus (don't remember the name of
it though) that is even transferred via the air. BUT I read that it is a
minute percentage of rodents (especially pet rodents) that carry that virus.

Just remember that this is Info that I gathered & unfortunately, I do
not have anything to support it at the time being. I found it all online
though.

Mona
due 07-31-04

Rob wrote:
> I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She
> insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of
> toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not pregnant).
> I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the
> house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero
> risk.
>
> I've scoured the net and found sites that try to scare the crap out of
> pregnant women, others that say even outdoor cats are a tiny risk, but
> nothing that really discusses house cats. I'd like to find a good
> documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving
> me wrong. Thanks!
>
>

[zolw]

Hey Rob,

me again, I found this article about toxoplasmosis & cats

http://www.womens-health.co.uk/toxo.htm

Rob wrote:

> I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She
> insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of
> toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not pregnant).
> I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the
> house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero
> risk.
>
> I've scoured the net and found sites that try to scare the crap out of
> pregnant women, others that say even outdoor cats are a tiny risk, but
> nothing that really discusses house cats. I'd like to find a good
> documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving
> me wrong. Thanks!
>
>

[Joe Canuck]

Rob wrote:

> I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She
> insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of
> toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not pregnant).
> I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the
> house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero
> risk.
>
> I've scoured the net and found sites that try to scare the crap out of
> pregnant women, others that say even outdoor cats are a tiny risk, but
> nothing that really discusses house cats. I'd like to find a good
> documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving
> me wrong. Thanks!
>
>

Cleaning the litter box is a man's job.

Get busy and do it! ;)

--
"Its the bugs that keep it running."
-Joe Canuck

[Cathy Weeks]

"Rob" > wrote in message >...
> I'm just having a little argument with my wife about toxoplasmosis. She
> insists pregnant women should not clean a cat litter box because of
> toxoplasmosis (note: this is just an academic debate, she is not pregnant).
> I think that if the cats are house cats and are not allowed out of the
> house, then there is no way they can carry the bacteria, thus pose zero
> risk.
>
> I've scoured the net and found sites that try to scare the crap out of
> pregnant women, others that say even outdoor cats are a tiny risk, but
> nothing that really discusses house cats. I'd like to find a good
> documented source to show that house cats pose no risk, or something proving
> me wrong. Thanks!

There is always some risk, but it's low. If mice ever come into your
house, then your house cat can contract the virus by eating the mice.
However, the cat is only contagious during the active infection, which
lasts around 2 weeks. After that, they are immune from the disease,
and don't shed the stuff in their poop. If a human is exposed to
Toxo, they too will become immune, and immunity can be measured with a
blood test. When I had my pre-pregnancy physical, I had the blood
titre, where it was discovered that I was not immune from Toxo. When
I was pregnant, I took two precautions - I wore rubber gloves when
scooping, and I made sure the boxes were scooped, either by me or my
husband EVERY day. Evidently, the eggs or whatever it is, hatches
after a few days and gets more contagious. After scooping, I washed
my hands while wearing the gloves, then I took the gloves off and hung
them up to dry. I then washed my hands again without the gloves.

My midwives told me to wear gloves and to wash up carefully, but told
me that the risk of toxo was very, very low. Evidently you are more
likely to get toxo from raw meat than from cats, but YMMV.

Search for posts by Mary S. that contain the word toxoplasmosis. Her
husband got it while she was pregnant. Their cat contracted it from
eating raw chicken that had been left on the counter.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

[Bóliath]

libbymom04 wrote:
> In my opinion it is better to be safe than sorry when it comes to your
> unborn children. I personally put my cat outside when I found out I was
> pregnant. The research I did when I was pregnant I found that any cat
> could put you at risk even if it is a small percent.

You put your cat outside to fend for itself?

[V.]

lol...I think this lady might be putting one over on her hubby! That said,
I'm ttcing and you better believe I don't do the litterbox even though we
have indoor cats...I'll take any excuse!
Actually, the childcare workplace is probably far more dangerous relatively
speaking(check out info on Fifth Disease for example if you want a good
scare for the day)
That said, change the darn litter box....she's going to be carrying a human
being around in her...it's a decent trade!
:)

"Rob" > wrote in message
...
> like i said, its an academic argument. she works in the childcare field
and
> is often involved with expectant mothers. she told me about her friend's
> husband who has been changing the cat litter for 4 years now (her friend
> told her husband that she's not supposed to change the litter while breast
> feeding either, and has had three children right in a row).
>
> "Jamie Clark" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > Just offer to change the cat litter for her once she is pregnant. Don't
> > bother trying to WIN this argument. Just go for the bonus points. : )
> > --
> >
> > Jamie & Taylor
> > Earth Angel, 1/3/03
> >
>
>

[Sophie]

"V." > wrote in message
...
> lol...I think this lady might be putting one over on her hubby! That
said,
> I'm ttcing and you better believe I don't do the litterbox even though we
> have indoor cats...I'll take any excuse!
> Actually, the childcare workplace is probably far more dangerous
relatively
> speaking(check out info on Fifth Disease for example if you want a good
> scare for the day)
> That said, change the darn litter box....she's going to be carrying a
human
> being around in her...it's a decent trade!
> :)


Oh don't even mention Fifth Disease to me - my daughter came home from
school exposed - by me! Lol. Long story and what a pain.



>
> "Rob" > wrote in message
> ...
> > like i said, its an academic argument. she works in the childcare field
> and
> > is often involved with expectant mothers. she told me about her
friend's
> > husband who has been changing the cat litter for 4 years now (her friend
> > told her husband that she's not supposed to change the litter while
breast
> > feeding either, and has had three children right in a row).
> >
> > "Jamie Clark" > wrote in message
> > link.net...
> > > Just offer to change the cat litter for her once she is pregnant.
Don't
> > > bother trying to WIN this argument. Just go for the bonus points.
: )
> > > --
> > >
> > > Jamie & Taylor
> > > Earth Angel, 1/3/03
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[libbymom04]

Yes I put the cat outside. I wasn't about to put my child in any danger!
Not to mention I didn't want to have a cat in the house with my baby in it
also. Don't get me wrong, I love my cat, and took good care of it outside.
She is fine, I think she likes it better.

[Ericka Kammerer]

libbymom04 wrote:
> Yes I put the cat outside. I wasn't about to put my child in any danger!

And with appropriate precautions, you wouldn't have,
even with the cat inside. Now the cat, on the other hand,
is in much more danger outside. Outdoor cats have an
average lifespan of only five years.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[Hillary Israeli]

In >,
Rob > wrote:

*like i said, its an academic argument. she works in the childcare field and
*is often involved with expectant mothers. she told me about her friend's
*husband who has been changing the cat litter for 4 years now (her friend
*told her husband that she's not supposed to change the litter while breast
*feeding either, and has had three children right in a row).

Academics aside, my husband has been changing the cat litter for five
years in a row merely because he knows I HATE CHANGING CAT LITTER.
Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. :)

That being said, I'd like to point out that I've been working with cats
since I was in the sixth grade, including several years as a professional
veterinary technician and more as a student and then as a graduate
veterinarian. I have worked with many cats in intensive care settings with
documented, active cases of toxoplasmosis. My last toxo titers were drawn
when I got pregnant with my now-19 month old, and they were NEGATIVE for
exposure, recent or historical. I will be having titers drawn again next
week at my first prenatal visit for this pregnancy, and I have no reason
to believe they will not still be negative.

-h.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Bóliath]

libbymom04 wrote:
> Yes I put the cat outside. I wasn't about to put my child in any danger!
> Not to mention I didn't want to have a cat in the house with my baby in it
> also. Don't get me wrong, I love my cat, and took good care of it outside.
> She is fine, I think she likes it better.

That's pretty extreme, your child wouldn't have been in any danger from
having a cat in the house, whereas your cat is definitely in danger
living outside. I'm not a fan of totally indoor cats, cats that come and
go have the best deal imo, but a cat that lives outside is definitely in
danger, from predators, the elements, traffic, neglect etc.. Maybe you
should see if someone can adopt your cat?

[Jamie Clark]

"Ericka Kammerer" > wrote in message
...
> libbymom04 wrote:
> > Yes I put the cat outside. I wasn't about to put my child in any danger!
>
> And with appropriate precautions, you wouldn't have,
> even with the cat inside. Now the cat, on the other hand,
> is in much more danger outside. Outdoor cats have an
> average lifespan of only five years.
>
> Best wishes,
> Ericka

While the average lifespan of an indoor cat is 15-20. Hmm, let's see, 5
years for an outdoor cat, or 15-20 for an indoor cat?

I'm sorry for your cat, that you kicked him to the curb. Of course you want
your baby to be safe, but cats aren't automatically dangerous to babies or
small children.
--

Jamie & Taylor
Earth Angel, 1/3/03

Check out Taylor Marlys -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

Check out our Adoption Page at http://home.earthlink.net/~jamielee6

[Hillary Israeli]

In <oMJvc.40539$eY2.25666@attbi_s02>,
zolw > wrote:

*Most (if not all) pregnant women have a blood test at the beginning of
*their pregnancy to check for toxoplasmosis (cause it can cause defects).

Of course, a positive IgG is comforting in early pregnancy, whereas a
positive IgM is greatly concerning, and believe it or not, there are
obstetricians who do not understand that.

*What many women don't realize is that it is safer to test even before
*conception. Also, when I had my dog, I had him checked for toxoplasmosis
*at the vet. (it is somewhat expensive, but better safe than sorry)

Why on earth would you do that? Dogs do not shed toxoplasma oocysts.
Unless you were planning on EATING your dog (and eating him undercooked at
that), I do not understand how you would contract toxoplasma from your
dog. The cat is the definitive host for toxoplasma, and the parasite can
not form the oocyst stage outside of the definitive host. Can you
elaborate on why exactly you spent money on a toxo test for your dog? I
hope your vet didn't recommend you do this...

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[jacquel]

"Ericka Kammerer" > wrote in message
...
> libbymom04 wrote:
> > Yes I put the cat outside. I wasn't about to put my child in any danger!
>
> And with appropriate precautions, you wouldn't have,
> even with the cat inside. Now the cat, on the other hand,
> is in much more danger outside. Outdoor cats have an
> average lifespan of only five years.
>
> Best wishes,
> Ericka

This really is quite sad. Not to mention the message this sends to the kids
about pet responsibility. When I look at my dear cats who love me and trust
me to look after them, the idea of putting them outside to fend for
themselves in the face of traffic, other people and disease breaks my heart.
When I agreed to have them in my life it certainly was not a short term
thing until they became inconvenient or incompatible with my lifestyle. I am
going to go and hug them now.

jacquel

[Nan]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 08:47:09 -0400, "libbymom04"
> wrote:

>Yes I put the cat outside. I wasn't about to put my child in any danger!

What danger?

>Not to mention I didn't want to have a cat in the house with my baby in it
>also.

Why not?

Nan

[libbymom04]

Wow! I feel like I am being attached. Someone said they wouldn't get rid of
their cat unless it intervened with their lifestyle, well I wasn't being
cruel to our cat it was just my life changed and that happens! I did try
to find someone to adopt our cat, nobody would take on the responsibilty.
Is there anyone from the US in here? It seems everyone talks and thinks
differently then me.

[Nan]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 13:43:09 -0400, "libbymom04"
> wrote:

>Is there anyone from the US in here? It seems everyone talks and thinks
>differently then me.

I'm in the US, and I cannot imagine getting rid of my furbaby, or
banishing her outdoors just because we have an infant.
There has been no danger to the baby at all.
In fact, the cat seems to regard the baby as terribly un-interesting.

Nan

[Jamie Clark]

Ditto. I'm in the US, and we had one cat when we brought out daughter home
from the hospital. That cat, unfortunately, died when Taylor was a month
old. We had a semi-feral cat living outside, who came in that day, and has
been with us ever since. We took her to the vet to have her fixed, but it
turned out she already was. We had her declawed, but that was more for the
furniture than the safety of the baby. Cat has little or no interest in the
child, although the child now has a lot of interest in the cat.

You aren't being attacked, just disagreed with. You could probably bring
your cat back inside the house, now that you know that your child isn't in
any danger, and the cat is.
--

Jamie & Taylor
Earth Angel, 1/3/03

Check out Taylor Marlys -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

Check out our Adoption Page at http://home.earthlink.net/~jamielee6


"Nan" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 13:43:09 -0400, "libbymom04"
> > wrote:
>
> >Is there anyone from the US in here? It seems everyone talks and thinks
> >differently then me.
>
> I'm in the US, and I cannot imagine getting rid of my furbaby, or
> banishing her outdoors just because we have an infant.
> There has been no danger to the baby at all.
> In fact, the cat seems to regard the baby as terribly un-interesting.
>
> Nan
>

[Jamie Clark]

You know, an indoor cat, lives on average for 15-20 years. That's a long
time -- hell, that's a lifetime commitment. Having kids, or moving, to me,
aren't reason enough to ditch the cat. You have kids, and unless the cat is
really terrible and threatens the safety of the child, you don't get rid of
the cat. Most cats are not a threat to babies or children.

My biggest pet peeve, no pun intended, was friends of mine, when I was in my
early 20's, who got a cat, then later had to move to a new apartment.
Rather than take the time and effort to search for a pet okay apartments,
which do exist, they just took the first/best apartment they could find, and
ditched the cat, either with friends, relatives, or worst case scenario, in
vacant lots.

Your life changes when you decide to have a pet, and it's often inconvenient
and annoying, but that is the commitment that you made. Cats are not place
holders for children, to be discarded when the real thing comes along. If
you didn't think a cat and a baby was a good mix, you shouldn't have gotten
the cat, or shouldn't have gotten pregnant, or should have found a good home
for the cat once you knew you were pregnant.
--

Jamie & Taylor
Earth Angel, 1/3/03

Check out Taylor Marlys -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

Check out our Adoption Page at http://home.earthlink.net/~jamielee6


"libbymom04" > wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
> Wow! I feel like I am being attached. Someone said they wouldn't get rid
of
> their cat unless it intervened with their lifestyle, well I wasn't being
> cruel to our cat it was just my life changed and that happens! I did try
> to find someone to adopt our cat, nobody would take on the responsibilty.
> Is there anyone from the US in here? It seems everyone talks and thinks
> differently then me.
>

[libbymom04]

Well, everyone has their on opinion, I don't feel mine is being respected.
My reasoning being one, she wasn't declawed, so she is able to survive
outdoors, two she was nutured which means she would spray in the house,
leaving an aweful smell, three cats leave hair everywhere, I wouldn't want
my DD to be laying on top of cat hair in her crib.

[Tori M.]

I am from the US and I definatly do not agree with just putting a cat
outside. I have concidered sending ours to a farm now and then but even
that seems extreme. I did have a cat that we gave away when Bonnie was born
but it was agressive and we knew that it would be a problem. The cat we
have now will be just fine when the next baby is born.

The only real reasons I can think of to get rid of a cat is if we move to a
location that cats are not allowed or if one of my children develope an
allergy... also not being able to afford food and care for the cat is a good
reason to get rid of it.

Tori

--
Bonnie 3/20/02
Anna or Xavier due 10/17/04
"libbymom04" > wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
> Wow! I feel like I am being attached. Someone said they wouldn't get rid
of
> their cat unless it intervened with their lifestyle, well I wasn't being
> cruel to our cat it was just my life changed and that happens! I did try
> to find someone to adopt our cat, nobody would take on the responsibilty.
> Is there anyone from the US in here? It seems everyone talks and thinks
> differently then me.
>

[Tori M.]

"Nan" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 13:43:09 -0400, "libbymom04"
> > wrote:
>
> >Is there anyone from the US in here? It seems everyone talks and thinks
> >differently then me.
>
> I'm in the US, and I cannot imagine getting rid of my furbaby, or
> banishing her outdoors just because we have an infant.
> There has been no danger to the baby at all.
> In fact, the cat seems to regard the baby as terribly un-interesting.
>
> Nan


Exactly!! I just spent 2 weeks with a 2 year old and a 20 lb cat.. keep in
mind my 2 year old is oly 23 lbs... the cat barely looked in her dirrection.
If you want to think of real risk imagine the first time I spent a night at
my moms house with a 5lb 8 oz baby and a 20 lb ball of cuddler :-0

Tori
--
Bonnie 3/20/02
Anna or Xavier due 10/17/04

[Bóliath]

Jamie Clark wrote:
> We had her declawed, but that was more for the
> furniture than the safety of the baby.

http://www.declawing.com/htmls/declawing.htm

I feel very strongly about this but don't wish to argue with anyone,
this newsgroup is about pregnancy so I think it's best to leave the
subject here. I do hope those of you who would consider declawing your
animal would please learn the truth about it, if your furniture is more
valuable, please don't get the cat.

[jacquel]

"libbymom04" > wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
> Well, everyone has their on opinion, I don't feel mine is being respected.
> My reasoning being one, she wasn't declawed, so she is able to survive
> outdoors, two she was nutured which means she would spray in the house,
> leaving an aweful smell, three cats leave hair everywhere, I wouldn't want
> my DD to be laying on top of cat hair in her crib.

Well it seems you are not suited to owning a cat. Why should the cat suffer?
Please find her a loving home. What is going to happen when your child
starts doing things you don't like such as drawing on the walls? Are you
going to take the time to train her and teach her not to do it or are you
going to put her outside too?

jacquel

[jacquel]

"Bóliath" > wrote in message
...
> Jamie Clark wrote:
> > We had her declawed, but that was more for the
> > furniture than the safety of the baby.
>
> http://www.declawing.com/htmls/declawing.htm
>
> I feel very strongly about this but don't wish to argue with anyone,
> this newsgroup is about pregnancy so I think it's best to leave the
> subject here. I do hope those of you who would consider declawing your
> animal would please learn the truth about it, if your furniture is more
> valuable, please don't get the cat.

Thank you for posting this article. It was very difficult for me, as a cat
lover, to read - but valuable never the less.

jacquel

[Jamie Clark]

Bo,
Great site, thanks for posting it. Yes, I know what it entails, and I
understood what we did. I agree, I don't want to argue about this or start
any flame wars.

I do have to say that Cricket is as happy as a clam without her front claws,
and has never had any problems since the surgery. If was the right
decision for our family, including Cricket.
--

Jamie & Taylor
Earth Angel, 1/3/03

Check out Taylor Marlys -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

Check out our Adoption Page at http://home.earthlink.net/~jamielee6


"Bóliath" > wrote in message
...
> Jamie Clark wrote:
> > We had her declawed, but that was more for the
> > furniture than the safety of the baby.
>
> http://www.declawing.com/htmls/declawing.htm
>
> I feel very strongly about this but don't wish to argue with anyone,
> this newsgroup is about pregnancy so I think it's best to leave the
> subject here. I do hope those of you who would consider declawing your
> animal would please learn the truth about it, if your furniture is more
> valuable, please don't get the cat.
>

[Bóliath]

jacquel wrote:

> Thank you for posting this article. It was very difficult for me, as a cat
> lover, to read - but valuable never the less.

You're welcome, I'm glad you found it useful

[Bóliath]

Jamie Clark wrote:

> Bo,
> Great site, thanks for posting it. Yes, I know what it entails, and I
> understood what we did. I agree, I don't want to argue about this or start
> any flame wars.

now, step into the cat ngs and see what happens when declawing is
mentioned phewee :c)

[Nan]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 20:03:59 GMT, "jacquel" >
wrote:

>Well it seems you are not suited to owning a cat.

I have to disagree. She seems mis-informed about integrating pets and
babies, but not "not suited."

> Why should the cat suffer?

Agreed.

>Please find her a loving home.

It may not be necessary. She can easily integrate the cat into the
household if she chooses to. If not, then yes, she should try to
adopt it out.

> What is going to happen when your child
>starts doing things you don't like such as drawing on the walls? Are you
>going to take the time to train her and teach her not to do it or are you
>going to put her outside too?

With all due respect, I think this is a ridiculous comparison. It
always ruins a person's credible argument when this is pulled out of
the air, IMO.

Nan

[Jamie Clark]

I'll pass, thanks. : )
--

Jamie & Taylor
Earth Angel, 1/3/03

Check out Taylor Marlys -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

Check out our Adoption Page at http://home.earthlink.net/~jamielee6


"Bóliath" > wrote in message
...
> Jamie Clark wrote:
>
> > Bo,
> > Great site, thanks for posting it. Yes, I know what it entails, and I
> > understood what we did. I agree, I don't want to argue about this or
start
> > any flame wars.
>
> now, step into the cat ngs and see what happens when declawing is
> mentioned phewee :c)
>

[jacquel]

"Nan" > wrote in message
...
> > What is going to happen when your child
> >starts doing things you don't like such as drawing on the walls? Are you
> >going to take the time to train her and teach her not to do it or are you
> >going to put her outside too?
>
> With all due respect, I think this is a ridiculous comparison. It
> always ruins a person's credible argument when this is pulled out of
> the air, IMO.

The same patience, love and responsibility that is required to train a pet
is required to bring up a child - gosh, much, much more in fact! I think it
is a very useful analogy. I am sorry you are not familiar with the use of
analogy in helping to explain a point of view.

jacquel

[Nan]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 21:39:36 GMT, "jacquel" >
wrote:

>The same patience, love and responsibility that is required to train a pet
>is required to bring up a child - gosh, much, much more in fact!

Uhm, I have both pets and children. I'm well aware of what is
required.

> I think it
>is a very useful analogy. I am sorry you are not familiar with the use of
>analogy in helping to explain a point of view.

I'm perfectly aware, but such a ridiculous comparison never lends
credibility to the argument.

Nan

[Uffin]

"libbymom04" > wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
> In my opinion it is better to be safe than sorry when it comes to your
> unborn children. I personally put my cat outside when I found out I was
> pregnant. The research I did when I was pregnant I found that any cat
> could put you at risk even if it is a small percent.
>

I think you did the right thing for you. I don't understand why so many
people are attacking you. My cat is an outdoor kitty who came with the house
when we bought it. He is perfectly fine outdoors and he will never be an
indoor cat because both my DH and I are allergic even though he is as sweet
as he can be. I don't understand why people are making such a big deal about
it anyway.. cats are cats not people and if you feel your baby was in danger
then you did the right thing. I think the baby is just a *little* more
important than the kitty.

-Meagan

[Hillary Israeli]

In utparenting.com>,
libbymom04 > wrote:

*Wow! I feel like I am being attached. Someone said they wouldn't get rid of
*their cat unless it intervened with their lifestyle, well I wasn't being
*cruel to our cat it was just my life changed and that happens! I did try
*to find someone to adopt our cat, nobody would take on the responsibilty.
*Is there anyone from the US in here? It seems everyone talks and thinks
*differently then me.

I'm in the US. I'm a small animal veterinarian. I think you made a
mistake. Your cat is statistically at very high risk of death due to
feline leukemia, feline immunodeficiency, feline infectious peritonitis,
other infectious disease, fight wounds, or motor vehicle trauma. Not to
mention deliberate cruelty although that is luckily less common around
here.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Hillary Israeli]

In utparenting.com>,
libbymom04 > wrote:

*Well, everyone has their on opinion, I don't feel mine is being respected.
*My reasoning being one, she wasn't declawed, so she is able to survive
*outdoors, two she was nutured which means she would spray in the house,
*leaving an aweful smell, three cats leave hair everywhere, I wouldn't want
*my DD to be laying on top of cat hair in her crib.

Being neutered has nothing to do with spraying. Spraying can be treated
medically many times, did you see your veterinarian or a veterinary
behavioral medicine specialist about this? Regarding the hair, exposure
to animals in infancy seems to have a protective effect when it comes to
allergies later in life, apparently!

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Tori M.]

I think it is differant if a cat has ALWAYS lived outside. The cat we have
was headed for a life as a barn cat but I found out that only 2 kittens a
year on average live the entire winter in my neighbors barn. They keep it
planty warm but the kittens just die off. I decided that I was taking in
the little guy so he did not become an ice popcicle. Now the dumb thing is
20 zillion times more annoying then any other cat on the planet so I only
threaten to send it over to the barn.. At this point I think it would be
cruel to throw him outside for good.

Tori

--
Bonnie 3/20/02
Anna or Xavier due 10/17/04
"Uffin" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "libbymom04" > wrote in message
> lkaboutparenting.com...
> > In my opinion it is better to be safe than sorry when it comes to your
> > unborn children. I personally put my cat outside when I found out I was
> > pregnant. The research I did when I was pregnant I found that any cat
> > could put you at risk even if it is a small percent.
> >
>
> I think you did the right thing for you. I don't understand why so many
> people are attacking you. My cat is an outdoor kitty who came with the
house
> when we bought it. He is perfectly fine outdoors and he will never be an
> indoor cat because both my DH and I are allergic even though he is as
sweet
> as he can be. I don't understand why people are making such a big deal
about
> it anyway.. cats are cats not people and if you feel your baby was in
danger
> then you did the right thing. I think the baby is just a *little* more
> important than the kitty.
>
> -Meagan
>
>

[ModernMiko]

"libbymom04" > wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
> Well, everyone has their on opinion, I don't feel mine is being respected.
> My reasoning being one, she wasn't declawed, so she is able to survive
> outdoors, two she was nutured which means she would spray in the house,
> leaving an aweful smell, three cats leave hair everywhere, I wouldn't want
> my DD to be laying on top of cat hair in her crib.
>

Everyone does have their own opinion indeed. I guess it's just inconceivable
to some of us who have cats and children that we would suddenly put the
cat(s) out because we had children. To give you some food for thought: 1)
claws help cats outside but not against cars or very large animals or
animals carrying rabies or feline leukemia or feline HIV (I hope the cat is
current on her shots), 2) I'm a little unclear here - male or female and
neutered or spayed or unaltered? If the animal has been fixed, it wouldn't
be as likely to spray. If it isn't, you should have it fixed ESPECIALLY if
it goes outside as you are going to add to the population of cats pretty
quickly 3) Combing your cat regularly will go a long way to stop unwanted
hair. In addition, you can try some behavioral techniques to train the cat
to stay out of the crib (this has been discussed fairly recently on this
ng). Or you can shut the door to the baby's room when the crib is empty. In
my experience, when my DS was in the crib, neither cat went anywhere near
it. One of the two jumped in a couple of times when it was empty but a sound
"no" and a small squirt with plain water from the little mister bottle
solved it very quickly. In addition, if the cat comes in from time to time
or your child plays with it outside when she is older, if the animal is
still alive, there's a good chance it will have fleas or possibly ticks
depending on where you live. I really don't want to sound judgmental and
hope that I have given you some ideas without making you feel attacked. I
just cannot imagine putting out my "girls." Really the only alteration has
been that DH does the litter. I've had cats all my life and probably am
immune but we decided why not be safer when it's not that big of a deal for
him to do.

--
JennL
DS 06/26/98
1 tiny angel 11/03
EDD December 4 2004

aka CatnipSlayer @ livin-it-up.net
--
Leader of the Cult of Worshippers of BiPolar Long-Haired Sexy Anime Guys
with Swords

[Leslie]

Meagan said:

> I think you did the right thing for you. I don't understand why so many
>people are attacking you.

I'd like to think people are upset because the car was used to living inside
until she put it out.

My cat is an outdoor kitty who came with the house
>when we bought it. He is perfectly fine outdoors and he will never be an
>indoor cat because both my DH and I are allergic even though he is as sweet
>as he can be.

We also have two outdoor cats, who cannot come inside because my husband is
allergic. We did not seek them out; they were both strays and it seems to me
they are better off living outside and sleeping on the front porch, being fed,
and taken to the doctor when necesssary than they were being strays!


And they are both 10 years old, BTW, so apparently we have beaten the odds. :-)

Leslie

[Ericka Kammerer]

libbymom04 wrote:

> Wow! I feel like I am being attached. Someone said they wouldn't get rid of
> their cat unless it intervened with their lifestyle, well I wasn't being
> cruel to our cat it was just my life changed and that happens! I did try
> to find someone to adopt our cat, nobody would take on the responsibilty.
> Is there anyone from the US in here? It seems everyone talks and thinks
> differently then me.
>

I'm from the US. I've had cats for years (just had to
have my lovely elder statesman of a cat put down after sixteen
wonderful years of companionship). If you take appropriate
precautions, you are no more likely to get get toxoplasmosis
from your cat than you are from gardening or handling raw
meat. Actually, you're much *more* likely to get it from
gardening or handling raw meat. Seriously, did you ban all
raw meat from your house and refuse to come into contact
with any outside dirt? That would have reduced your risk
of getting toxoplasmosis more than turning your cat out.
I just think that many people are given bad information
about the real risks involved, which is a shame.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[Ericka Kammerer]

Uffin wrote:

> I think you did the right thing for you. I don't understand why so many
> people are attacking you. My cat is an outdoor kitty who came with the house
> when we bought it. He is perfectly fine outdoors and he will never be an
> indoor cat because both my DH and I are allergic even though he is as sweet
> as he can be. I don't understand why people are making such a big deal about
> it anyway.. cats are cats not people and if you feel your baby was in danger
> then you did the right thing. I think the baby is just a *little* more
> important than the kitty.

But it's a red herring to cast this as a choice
between the cat and the baby. There's no need to make a
choice. There is no danger to the baby in having the cat
around under normal circumstances. The issue is about
getting accurate information before putting the cat at
risk, not about whether cats or babies are more important.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[Uffin]

Good point.. it also depends where you live. I live in a warm climate with a
good amount of land. So my kitty won't become an ice popsicle and the one
time that it reached -18C we put him in the garage.

-Meagan



"Tori M." > wrote in message
...
> I think it is differant if a cat has ALWAYS lived outside. The cat we
have
> was headed for a life as a barn cat but I found out that only 2 kittens a
> year on average live the entire winter in my neighbors barn. They keep it
> planty warm but the kittens just die off. I decided that I was taking in
> the little guy so he did not become an ice popcicle. Now the dumb thing
is
> 20 zillion times more annoying then any other cat on the planet so I only
> threaten to send it over to the barn.. At this point I think it would be
> cruel to throw him outside for good.
>
> Tori
>
> --
> Bonnie 3/20/02
> Anna or Xavier due 10/17/04
> "Uffin" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > "libbymom04" > wrote in message
> >
lkaboutparenting.com...
> > > In my opinion it is better to be safe than sorry when it comes to your
> > > unborn children. I personally put my cat outside when I found out I
was
> > > pregnant. The research I did when I was pregnant I found that any cat
> > > could put you at risk even if it is a small percent.
> > >
> >
> > I think you did the right thing for you. I don't understand why so many
> > people are attacking you. My cat is an outdoor kitty who came with the
> house
> > when we bought it. He is perfectly fine outdoors and he will never be an
> > indoor cat because both my DH and I are allergic even though he is as
> sweet
> > as he can be. I don't understand why people are making such a big deal
> about
> > it anyway.. cats are cats not people and if you feel your baby was in
> danger
> > then you did the right thing. I think the baby is just a *little* more
> > important than the kitty.
> >
> > -Meagan
> >
> >
>
>

[zolw]

http://www.avma.org/careforanimals/animatedjourneys/pethealth/pethealth.asp

"Since its discovery, toxoplasmosis has been found in virtually all
warm-blooded animals including most pets, livestock, and human beings."

read the article in full

Hillary Israeli wrote:
> In <oMJvc.40539$eY2.25666@attbi_s02>,
> zolw > wrote:
>
> *Most (if not all) pregnant women have a blood test at the beginning of
> *their pregnancy to check for toxoplasmosis (cause it can cause defects).
>
> Of course, a positive IgG is comforting in early pregnancy, whereas a
> positive IgM is greatly concerning, and believe it or not, there are
> obstetricians who do not understand that.
>
> *What many women don't realize is that it is safer to test even before
> *conception. Also, when I had my dog, I had him checked for toxoplasmosis
> *at the vet. (it is somewhat expensive, but better safe than sorry)
>
> Why on earth would you do that? Dogs do not shed toxoplasma oocysts.
> Unless you were planning on EATING your dog (and eating him undercooked at
> that), I do not understand how you would contract toxoplasma from your
> dog. The cat is the definitive host for toxoplasma, and the parasite can
> not form the oocyst stage outside of the definitive host. Can you
> elaborate on why exactly you spent money on a toxo test for your dog? I
> hope your vet didn't recommend you do this...
>

[zolw]

http://www.avma.org/careforanimals/animatedjourneys/pethealth/pethealth.asp

"Since its discovery, toxoplasmosis has been found in virtually all
warm-blooded animals including most pets, livestock, and human beings."

read the article in full

Hillary Israeli wrote:

> In <oMJvc.40539$eY2.25666@attbi_s02>,
> zolw > wrote:
>
> *Most (if not all) pregnant women have a blood test at the beginning of
> *their pregnancy to check for toxoplasmosis (cause it can cause defects).
>
> Of course, a positive IgG is comforting in early pregnancy, whereas a
> positive IgM is greatly concerning, and believe it or not, there are
> obstetricians who do not understand that.
>
> *What many women don't realize is that it is safer to test even before
> *conception. Also, when I had my dog, I had him checked for toxoplasmosis
> *at the vet. (it is somewhat expensive, but better safe than sorry)
>
> Why on earth would you do that? Dogs do not shed toxoplasma oocysts.
> Unless you were planning on EATING your dog (and eating him undercooked at
> that), I do not understand how you would contract toxoplasma from your
> dog. The cat is the definitive host for toxoplasma, and the parasite can
> not form the oocyst stage outside of the definitive host. Can you
> elaborate on why exactly you spent money on a toxo test for your dog? I
> hope your vet didn't recommend you do this...
>

[Vicky Bilaniuk]

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
> I just think that many people are given bad information
> about the real risks involved, which is a shame.

You said it!!!! Also, a lot of people don't understand what the
statistical risk of getting some disease really means. It's very
unfortunate. Leads to way too much worry.

[Vicky Bilaniuk]

Hillary Israeli wrote:

> Academics aside, my husband has been changing the cat litter for five
> years in a row merely because he knows I HATE CHANGING CAT LITTER.
> Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. :)

Mine has been changing it for years as well, but because he likes it. I
don't know why, but he just... does. I think it's because he always
wanted a pet as a kid and his parents never allowed it. Now that he
finally has pets, he basically monopolizes everything about them.

>
> That being said, I'd like to point out that I've been working with cats
> since I was in the sixth grade, including several years as a professional
> veterinary technician and more as a student and then as a graduate
> veterinarian. I have worked with many cats in intensive care settings with
> documented, active cases of toxoplasmosis. My last toxo titers were drawn
> when I got pregnant with my now-19 month old, and they were NEGATIVE for
> exposure, recent or historical. I will be having titers drawn again next

That happened to me, too. I've had cats forever and I've done plenty of
gardening, yet I'm negative.

[Kathy Cole]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 13:43:09 -0400, "libbymom04"
> wrote:

> Wow! I feel like I am being attached. Someone said they wouldn't get rid of
> their cat unless it intervened with their lifestyle, well I wasn't being
> cruel to our cat it was just my life changed and that happens!

Your actions are being criticized because they were poorly informed, and
cruel to a cat who had been a part of the family. Pets are not supposed
to be conveniently disposable.

[Amy Todhunter]

Toxoplasma gondii is a protozoan parasite so it doesn't act in the same way
as worms or bacteria might. From my understanding, nearly any animal can
act as an intermediate host for the parasite, but only cats are the
definitive host, and therefore only cats shed oocysts. The parasite forms
bradyzoites and tachyzoites in the tissues, and oocysts are shed.
Bradyzoites remain in the tissues for the entire life of the cat, but they
are usually held in check by the animal's immune system, and remain
inactive. In the intermediate host there is brady/tachyzoite formation but
there is no oocyst production.

To be infected (as an intermediate host) you must either ingest an oocyst
(from the environment, eg. by not washing veg or hands) or ingest
bradyzoites or tachyzoites, (from eating meat from intermediate host that
isn't cooked thoroughly). In humans infection usually results in a flu-like
illness which resolves quickly and is only dangerous if the person is
immunocompromised, however bradyzoites remain in body tissues for the rest
of a person's life. Infection *during* pregnancy can result in tachyzoites
crossing the placenta resulting in congenital toxoplasmosis.

I wouldn't rely on a cat not carrying the disease because of it being a
house cat. It can be exposed to oocysts in the environment in the same way
a person can, and is less likely to wash its hands! Oocysts can be spread
by flies, carried in on shoes, food etc. Another possible route of
infection that is probably irrelevant to most people is transmission from
sheep during assisted lambings.

An important thing to remember is that it takes 24 hours for oocysts to
become sporolated, ie. to be activated and capable of causing an infection
if ingested, so ideally if you have to clean the litter tray, you should be
doing it thoroughly *at least* once a day.

Hope that helps clear things up a bit
Sorry its a bit long!

Amy


"zolw" > wrote in message
news:mZawc.45380$3x.8731@attbi_s54...
>
http://www.avma.org/careforanimals/animatedjourneys/pethealth/pethealth.asp
>
> "Since its discovery, toxoplasmosis has been found in virtually all
> warm-blooded animals including most pets, livestock, and human beings."
>
> read the article in full
>
> Hillary Israeli wrote:
>
> > In <oMJvc.40539$eY2.25666@attbi_s02>,
> > zolw > wrote:
> >
> > *Most (if not all) pregnant women have a blood test at the beginning of
> > *their pregnancy to check for toxoplasmosis (cause it can cause
defects).
> >
> > Of course, a positive IgG is comforting in early pregnancy, whereas a
> > positive IgM is greatly concerning, and believe it or not, there are
> > obstetricians who do not understand that.
> >
> > *What many women don't realize is that it is safer to test even before
> > *conception. Also, when I had my dog, I had him checked for
toxoplasmosis
> > *at the vet. (it is somewhat expensive, but better safe than sorry)
> >
> > Why on earth would you do that? Dogs do not shed toxoplasma oocysts.
> > Unless you were planning on EATING your dog (and eating him undercooked
at
> > that), I do not understand how you would contract toxoplasma from your
> > dog. The cat is the definitive host for toxoplasma, and the parasite can
> > not form the oocyst stage outside of the definitive host. Can you
> > elaborate on why exactly you spent money on a toxo test for your dog? I
> > hope your vet didn't recommend you do this...
> >
>

[Hillary Israeli]

*"zolw" > wrote in message
*news:mZawc.45380$3x.8731@attbi_s54...
*>
*http://www.avma.org/careforanimals/animatedjourneys/pethealth/pethealth.asp
*>
*> "Since its discovery, toxoplasmosis has been found in virtually all
*> warm-blooded animals including most pets, livestock, and human beings."

Yes, I know that. However, just because toxoplasma has been found in most
mammals, there is no reason to believe most mammals can PASS ON
toxoplasma. Did you read what I wrote?? Here, I will quote myself again:

*> Hillary Israeli wrote:
*> >
*> > *What many women don't realize is that it is safer to test even before
*> > *conception. Also, when I had my dog, I had him checked for
*> >
*> > Why on earth would you do that? Dogs do not shed toxoplasma oocysts.
*> > Unless you were planning on EATING your dog (and eating him undercooked
*at
*> > that), I do not understand how you would contract toxoplasma from your
*> > dog. The cat is the definitive host for toxoplasma, and the parasite can
*> > not form the oocyst stage outside of the definitive host. Can you
*> > elaborate on why exactly you spent money on a toxo test for your dog? I
*> > hope your vet didn't recommend you do this...

ONLY CATS are the definitive host. ONLY CATS can shed the infectious part
of the life cycle. This is not in dispute by the AVMA. The article you
suggest I read confirms this when it says "Of all the infected animals
tested, only cats are the perfect hosts for the production of the
infectious and resistant Toxoplasma oocysts. The oocyst, released from the
intestine of cats in their feces, is very hardy and can survive sleet,
freezing, and even several months of extreme heat and dehydration."

Note there is nothing about the oocyst being released from anyone else's
intestine. ONLY CATS. What exactly was it you thought I would get from
this article that would support testing of a dog owned by a pregnant
woman?? Believe me, if I thought there were ANY chance a woman could get
toxo from her dog without eating the dog, I'd be telling my pregnant
clients about it.

So, why again did you waste your money testing your dog? Was it your OB or
your vet who suggested it? I would ask for my money back if it was one of
them. If it was you, well, live and learn and now you know :)

-h.
--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[jacquel]

"libbymom04" > wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
> I am so offened. I will no londer be posting here because of this comment!
> I am very ticked off! How dare you say that to me! You don't even know
> me!! I am a great mother to my child and you have some nerve.

It was simply food for thought - I was simply juxtaposing two important jobs
that require patience and training, to show that perhaps putting the cats
outside was an inappropriate decision to make. Again, how many of us would
put our kids outside for drawing on the walls? I would suggest none of us
would. I am merely suggesting that a little bit of love and understanding -
and patience, will insure a happy co-existence with your kitty just as it
does our children. I love my kitties with all my heart, and I presumed it
was not a stretch to make an analogy with those others we love with all our
heart.

That said, I am really impressed with the amazing power I wield in
newsgroups! With just the flourish of my keyboard I can make posters decide
to self-banish! Why I'm a regular Harry Potter. If only this happened to me
in real life!

jacquel
-trying the Jedi Knight hand movement next