Will's Birth Story (REALLY long and late)

[Kat]

Labor started for me around 2am Monday, Feb 9th. I went for a walk that
morning with my parents to see if it was real. The contractions didn't go
away, so I started to feel optimistic that it was actually labor.
I took a nap with my daughter and around 2pm my water broke. It wasn't a
gush, just a distinctive pop. Around 4:30 or 5pm my parents brought us
dinner (pizza, strawberries and dip). Around 6pm I had to ask them to leave
because I started feeling like I needed to hide from them during
contractions. I felt like I only wanted my DD and DH to see me during
contractions. By this time the only thing that made me feel comfortable
during the contractions was teh birth ball. I even sat on it during dinner.
After my parents left I called my doula and best friend to tell them to
leisurely make their way to my house. They arrived no more than 2 hours
later if not earlier. My contractions stalled out for about 30 minutes
until I got used to everyone being there.
Things really started getting good once my DD was put to bed and my BF's DH
put their DS to bed (she's bf'ing so she needed to bring her DH to help
watch her DS). My doula even mentioned that I just waited until everything
settled down and got quiet. I felt the most comfortable when it was just
her, me and my BF. It was the camaderie of women who had BTDT. I knew they
would know what I would need from them. When the contractions got the point
where I couldn't talk through them they would stop talking so I could have
absolute quiet during the contractions would help me feel like they
appreciated and respected what I was doing. At one point my doula even
said that I made it look easy, but it took all my concentration to relax
every muscle so it would hurt less.
Around 5am or so, after I tried to take another nap, my doula suggested that
maybe we should leave before my DD woke up. So I called my parents to come
over around 6:30am to beat DD waking up and we headed to the hospital. Right
before we left though I went to the bathroom one last time (which by the way
the toilet was the most hated thing for me, it seemed to make everything
much more painful and intense for me) and had to throw up, which told me
that things were truly getting serious and was probably in transition. I
felt bad since everyone heard me do it and it was very violent sounding.
So we got to the hospital around 6:45am or so and immediately I started to
feel out of my element. I immediately started to resent every single person
that I didn't know who saw me in labor. I felt like it was a sacred event
and people were intruding. My doula even said later that I even looked like
I my disposition even changed and lost my zone.
I went to L&D triage and was directed to the bathroom for a urine sample and
to change in the hospital gown. I was then told that I would have to lay
down for the entire time I was being monitored (which I didn't agree with)
and was also checked. I can't describe it well enough but even the memory
of this part gives me incredible anxiety. Anyway, I was forced to lay down
even though I really stressed that I didn't want to. When the nurse
examined me I totally freaked out. I started to have a huge anxiety attack.
She was not gentle with me nor talked me through it. I felt intensely
violated. I started to really feel like my voice wasn't being heard and I
was losing control. It all made me feel like a little kid all over again,
from when I was sexually abused. When the nurse was finally done (it didn't
really take that long) she told us that I was 7cm. My people all tried to
cheer me up with that good news but I couldn't view being where I was as
good at all. Around this time (with the nurse close by) I said that I wish
I had had a home birth, this didn't go over very well with her and she got
even more rude and unkind, it seemed.
I was then walked down to a labor and delivery because OMG I was actually in
labor:-). The room was one of the larger rooms so that was happy thing for
all of us. The nurse then set up my IV and then hooked me up to saline
without asking me, I only wanted the hep-lock and they knew that. Then they
called in my doctor who just got done with another delivery. He checked me
and once again (not his fault, just left over feelings from before and
anxiety) I freaked out. I couldn't handle anyone touching me in or around
my vagina, it felt horrible.
Once that was all done I was told that I could finally try out the birth
ball, but as soon as I did I was told to get back on teh bed because the
baby wasn't responding well at all to that. They tried to have me on my
sides, but the whole laying down thing really was freaking me out. My doula
finally asked me what I wanted to do and I decided to give all fours a try.
That was finally something that felt remotely good and the baby was reacting
fairly well to.
During all of this I couldn't calm myself down, I was majorly freaking out
(later we all decided that it was a bunch of factors including transition
that was doing it to me).
About 15-30 minutes after the doctor checked me the first time (about 1 hour
after I got there?) I had the undeniable urge to push. I couldn't resist
it. The nurse tried to get me to stop, but my doula talked me into doing
small grunting pushes and that helped. When the doctor came back I was 9
1/2 cm, I just had a lip left (same thing happened with DD). I don't know
when I started to really freak out but at some point I decided I had enough
and I was going to try to leave, but of course I didn't:-) And later on I
decided I needed to have a c-section, I was freaking out, it didn't feel
right, I was done. The baby through the whole thing kept on having low
heart rates
during contractions and this was making everyone nervous, even my doula (who
at
home births normally does the heartrate checks) said they would be concerned
if they
saw these rates at a home birth. Now I realize there were alot of things
going on at this
point, anxiety, transission, exhaustion, among other things. I really
wonder if I had had a
homebirth things might have been more relaxed, but I will never know.
Anyway...They were getting everything ready for a c-section and the doctor
wanted
to check me one more time. So I moved from my squatting position back onto
my back
which of course I still hated, and he checked and the baby had moved down
and he wanted me
to try to push him out after all. This was after they had already given me
the medicine to
relax the uterus.
During the whole time I was pushing the Dr kept his hands in my vagina
pushing really hard
which I detested and was freaking me out. I kept on asking him to stop but
he kept on. He
asked if I would be okay with him using a vacuum to get the baby out and I
refused (since
I have heard many bad things about it). In less than 30 minutes of pushing
Will arrived. This
was the most primal triumph I have ever felt, more than I felt with my DD.
I caught Will myself
and brought him up to my chest. Will had had his cord wrapped around his
shoulder and chest
(they called it a knapsack wrap or something), so they immediately cut his
cord.
Will was grunting with his breathing so they took him away from practically
immediately and
I didn't see him again for over an hour. That was so incredibly traumatic
for me, I didn't feel
like I had a baby. So it took me awhile to bond with him once he was
brought back, it took
practically til we got home that we relaxed with each other.

Sorry this was so long, Thanks for reading!!!
Kat
Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
and Will 02/10/04 (almost 4 months old!!!)

[Kat]

I wanted just for my last 2 cents:-) that I will never have a hospital birth
ever again. I felt like my power and opinions where ignored and stripped
from me. I have sense realized I need to feel safe and secure where I am
and I didn't feel that this time at the hospital. Home birth it is next
time, which might be in 5 years or so.
I will put up an update on Will and Maggie later. THanks!!

Kat
Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
and Will 02/10/04
"Kat" > wrote in message
...
> Labor started for me around 2am Monday, Feb 9th. I went for a walk that
> morning with my parents to see if it was real. The contractions didn't go
> away, so I started to feel optimistic that it was actually labor.
> I took a nap with my daughter and around 2pm my water broke. It wasn't a
> gush, just a distinctive pop. Around 4:30 or 5pm my parents brought us
> dinner (pizza, strawberries and dip). Around 6pm I had to ask them to
leave
> because I started feeling like I needed to hide from them during
> contractions. I felt like I only wanted my DD and DH to see me during
> contractions. By this time the only thing that made me feel comfortable
> during the contractions was teh birth ball. I even sat on it during
dinner.
> After my parents left I called my doula and best friend to tell them to
> leisurely make their way to my house. They arrived no more than 2 hours
> later if not earlier. My contractions stalled out for about 30 minutes
> until I got used to everyone being there.
> Things really started getting good once my DD was put to bed and my BF's
DH
> put their DS to bed (she's bf'ing so she needed to bring her DH to help
> watch her DS). My doula even mentioned that I just waited until
everything
> settled down and got quiet. I felt the most comfortable when it was just
> her, me and my BF. It was the camaderie of women who had BTDT. I knew
they
> would know what I would need from them. When the contractions got the
point
> where I couldn't talk through them they would stop talking so I could have
> absolute quiet during the contractions would help me feel like they
> appreciated and respected what I was doing. At one point my doula even
> said that I made it look easy, but it took all my concentration to relax
> every muscle so it would hurt less.
> Around 5am or so, after I tried to take another nap, my doula suggested
that
> maybe we should leave before my DD woke up. So I called my parents to
come
> over around 6:30am to beat DD waking up and we headed to the hospital.
Right
> before we left though I went to the bathroom one last time (which by the
way
> the toilet was the most hated thing for me, it seemed to make everything
> much more painful and intense for me) and had to throw up, which told me
> that things were truly getting serious and was probably in transition. I
> felt bad since everyone heard me do it and it was very violent sounding.
> So we got to the hospital around 6:45am or so and immediately I started to
> feel out of my element. I immediately started to resent every single
person
> that I didn't know who saw me in labor. I felt like it was a sacred event
> and people were intruding. My doula even said later that I even looked
like
> I my disposition even changed and lost my zone.
> I went to L&D triage and was directed to the bathroom for a urine sample
and
> to change in the hospital gown. I was then told that I would have to lay
> down for the entire time I was being monitored (which I didn't agree with)
> and was also checked. I can't describe it well enough but even the memory
> of this part gives me incredible anxiety. Anyway, I was forced to lay
down
> even though I really stressed that I didn't want to. When the nurse
> examined me I totally freaked out. I started to have a huge anxiety
attack.
> She was not gentle with me nor talked me through it. I felt intensely
> violated. I started to really feel like my voice wasn't being heard and I
> was losing control. It all made me feel like a little kid all over again,
> from when I was sexually abused. When the nurse was finally done (it
didn't
> really take that long) she told us that I was 7cm. My people all tried to
> cheer me up with that good news but I couldn't view being where I was as
> good at all. Around this time (with the nurse close by) I said that I
wish
> I had had a home birth, this didn't go over very well with her and she got
> even more rude and unkind, it seemed.
> I was then walked down to a labor and delivery because OMG I was actually
in
> labor:-). The room was one of the larger rooms so that was happy thing
for
> all of us. The nurse then set up my IV and then hooked me up to saline
> without asking me, I only wanted the hep-lock and they knew that. Then
they
> called in my doctor who just got done with another delivery. He checked
me
> and once again (not his fault, just left over feelings from before and
> anxiety) I freaked out. I couldn't handle anyone touching me in or around
> my vagina, it felt horrible.
> Once that was all done I was told that I could finally try out the birth
> ball, but as soon as I did I was told to get back on teh bed because the
> baby wasn't responding well at all to that. They tried to have me on my
> sides, but the whole laying down thing really was freaking me out. My
doula
> finally asked me what I wanted to do and I decided to give all fours a
try.
> That was finally something that felt remotely good and the baby was
reacting
> fairly well to.
> During all of this I couldn't calm myself down, I was majorly freaking out
> (later we all decided that it was a bunch of factors including transition
> that was doing it to me).
> About 15-30 minutes after the doctor checked me the first time (about 1
hour
> after I got there?) I had the undeniable urge to push. I couldn't resist
> it. The nurse tried to get me to stop, but my doula talked me into doing
> small grunting pushes and that helped. When the doctor came back I was 9
> 1/2 cm, I just had a lip left (same thing happened with DD). I don't know
> when I started to really freak out but at some point I decided I had
enough
> and I was going to try to leave, but of course I didn't:-) And later on I
> decided I needed to have a c-section, I was freaking out, it didn't feel
> right, I was done. The baby through the whole thing kept on having low
> heart rates
> during contractions and this was making everyone nervous, even my doula
(who
> at
> home births normally does the heartrate checks) said they would be
concerned
> if they
> saw these rates at a home birth. Now I realize there were alot of things
> going on at this
> point, anxiety, transission, exhaustion, among other things. I really
> wonder if I had had a
> homebirth things might have been more relaxed, but I will never know.
> Anyway...They were getting everything ready for a c-section and the doctor
> wanted
> to check me one more time. So I moved from my squatting position back
onto
> my back
> which of course I still hated, and he checked and the baby had moved down
> and he wanted me
> to try to push him out after all. This was after they had already given
me
> the medicine to
> relax the uterus.
> During the whole time I was pushing the Dr kept his hands in my vagina
> pushing really hard
> which I detested and was freaking me out. I kept on asking him to stop
but
> he kept on. He
> asked if I would be okay with him using a vacuum to get the baby out and I
> refused (since
> I have heard many bad things about it). In less than 30 minutes of
pushing
> Will arrived. This
> was the most primal triumph I have ever felt, more than I felt with my DD.
> I caught Will myself
> and brought him up to my chest. Will had had his cord wrapped around his
> shoulder and chest
> (they called it a knapsack wrap or something), so they immediately cut his
> cord.
> Will was grunting with his breathing so they took him away from
practically
> immediately and
> I didn't see him again for over an hour. That was so incredibly traumatic
> for me, I didn't feel
> like I had a baby. So it took me awhile to bond with him once he was
> brought back, it took
> practically til we got home that we relaxed with each other.
>
> Sorry this was so long, Thanks for reading!!!
> Kat
> Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
> and Will 02/10/04 (almost 4 months old!!!)
>
>
>
>
>

[Larry McMahan]

I was going to say that after the way you felt violated in
the hospital, why didn't you have a homebirth, but then
I read your follow-up. I am glad the baby came without
really serious interventions like augmentation or worse
c-section and was healthy.

I am glad that you have a healty happy baby, and
I am sure that if you have another at home, that it will
be a wonderful experience for you,

Larry

[Kat]

"Larry McMahan" > wrote in message
...
> I was going to say that after the way you felt violated in
> the hospital, why didn't you have a homebirth, but then
> I read your follow-up. I am glad the baby came without
> really serious interventions like augmentation or worse
> c-section and was healthy.
>
> I am glad that you have a healty happy baby, and
> I am sure that if you have another at home, that it will
> be a wonderful experience for you,
>
> Larry

When we first arrived at the hospital I made a comment that I should have
had a homebirth. We just didn't have the foresight that I wouldn't be happy
at the hospital and save up money for a home birth. That won't be an issue
next time. Thank you Larry, I am glad Will is a happy baby and all in all I
had the birth I wanted (I just wasn't happy where I was:-)).
Kat
Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
and Will 02/10/04

[Ericka Kammerer]

Kat wrote:

> I wanted just for my last 2 cents:-) that I will never have a hospital birth
> ever again. I felt like my power and opinions where ignored and stripped
> from me. I have sense realized I need to feel safe and secure where I am
> and I didn't feel that this time at the hospital. Home birth it is next
> time, which might be in 5 years or so.

Sounds like you're the sort who would have a really
great time with a homebirth. Congratulations on your new
addition to the family, and I'm so glad to hear everyone
is happy and healthy.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[Dagny]

"Kat" > wrote in message
...
> I wanted just for my last 2 cents:-) that I will never have a hospital
birth
> ever again. I felt like my power and opinions where ignored and stripped
> from me. I have sense realized I need to feel safe and secure where I am
> and I didn't feel that this time at the hospital. Home birth it is next
> time, which might be in 5 years or so.
> I will put up an update on Will and Maggie later. THanks!!
>
> Kat
> Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
> and Will 02/10/04
>
>

Oh Kat I am so sorry for what you went through. No one deserves this, why
do they do it? You did such a good job in such an environment.

Your story was really hard to read as so much of it reminded me of the
trauma I had with my homebirth. Particularly about the hands being in you
so much and how it made you feel. So you might want to think about
unassisted homebirth too. Ericka and Richard have such positive homebirth
midwife experiences, and we tend to be rah rah about midwives on this board,
and I was, too, until ...

I feel sometimes that I was stripped of everything I was and everything I
wanted to be. And I cannot say it is worse than what you went through, but
it happened in my bedroom and defiled my sanctuary, and I don't want to sell
the house just yet.

-- Dagny
Mom to Meg, 10/03
EDD 1/19/04

[Kat]

"Dagny" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kat" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I wanted just for my last 2 cents:-) that I will never have a hospital
> birth
> > ever again. I felt like my power and opinions where ignored and
stripped
> > from me. I have sense realized I need to feel safe and secure where I
am
> > and I didn't feel that this time at the hospital. Home birth it is next
> > time, which might be in 5 years or so.
> > I will put up an update on Will and Maggie later. THanks!!
> >
> > Kat
> > Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
> > and Will 02/10/04
> >
> >
>
> Oh Kat I am so sorry for what you went through. No one deserves this, why
> do they do it? You did such a good job in such an environment.
>
> Your story was really hard to read as so much of it reminded me of the
> trauma I had with my homebirth. Particularly about the hands being in you
> so much and how it made you feel. So you might want to think about
> unassisted homebirth too. Ericka and Richard have such positive homebirth
> midwife experiences, and we tend to be rah rah about midwives on this
board,
> and I was, too, until ...
>
> I feel sometimes that I was stripped of everything I was and everything I
> wanted to be. And I cannot say it is worse than what you went through,
but
> it happened in my bedroom and defiled my sanctuary, and I don't want to
sell
> the house just yet.
>
> -- Dagny
> Mom to Meg, 10/03
> EDD 1/19/04
>
>
I felt so violated and disappointed in myself and with the hospital. Alot
of the interventions they did do were totally unnecessary and for their
convenience only. They could have kept watch on Will in our room but for
their convienence they wanted him in the nursery. I don't think they
realize how important it is to keep babies with their moms. I felt so
unhappy and depressed for awhile about it all but my Best Friend, doula and
DH reminded me that I labored in peace and was very happy at home, it just
got sucked away at the hospital, no happy feelings there expect when he was
born and that was cut short.
Alot of things in the birth story still upset me and make me cry, ie him
being taken away, how the initial nurse treated me and the dr keeping his
hands on me when it wasn't necessary.
Sorry about your bad experience too, it really sucks, hopefully you will
have a better experience with your next, I'll be waiting in hopes for you.

Kat
Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
and Will 02/10/04

[Kat]

"Ericka Kammerer" > wrote in message
...
> Kat wrote:
>
> > I wanted just for my last 2 cents:-) that I will never have a hospital
birth
> > ever again. I felt like my power and opinions where ignored and
stripped
> > from me. I have sense realized I need to feel safe and secure where I
am
> > and I didn't feel that this time at the hospital. Home birth it is next
> > time, which might be in 5 years or so.
>
> Sounds like you're the sort who would have a really
> great time with a homebirth. Congratulations on your new
> addition to the family, and I'm so glad to hear everyone
> is happy and healthy.
>
> Best wishes,
> Ericka
>
I'm excited about the possibility of having a third child and having a
homebirth. We'll see what happens...I have a few years to talk my DH into
it:-)
Kat
mama to Maggie 11/03/01
and Will 02/10/04

[Dagny]

"Kat" > wrote in message
...
>
> I felt so violated and disappointed in myself and with the hospital. Alot
> of the interventions they did do were totally unnecessary and for their
> convenience only. They could have kept watch on Will in our room but for
> their convienence they wanted him in the nursery. I don't think they
> realize how important it is to keep babies with their moms.

Unbelievably, my baby was taken away from me too. And she didn't have any
health problems at all. It's just that I didn't reach for her because I was
too traumatized, so my husband asked if he could hold her, and the midwife
picked her up off me and handed her to him and away she went to who knows
where. Probably the den. Nobody told DH about bonding or mentioned that he
should be sitting by me, loving me and showing me the baby and calling me
back. Since everyone else was ignoring that I was completely traumatized,
and paying attention only to my crotch, and DH knows nothing about birth ...
how could the midwife do that to me.

How could everyone we trusted do this to us and allow this to be done to us.
We were supposed to be safe, no matter where we were. You had a doula, a
friend, your husband ...

Dagny

[Kat]

"Dagny" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kat" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I felt so violated and disappointed in myself and with the hospital.
Alot
> > of the interventions they did do were totally unnecessary and for their
> > convenience only. They could have kept watch on Will in our room but
for
> > their convienence they wanted him in the nursery. I don't think they
> > realize how important it is to keep babies with their moms.
>
> Unbelievably, my baby was taken away from me too. And she didn't have any
> health problems at all. It's just that I didn't reach for her because I
was
> too traumatized, so my husband asked if he could hold her, and the midwife
> picked her up off me and handed her to him and away she went to who knows
> where. Probably the den. Nobody told DH about bonding or mentioned that
he
> should be sitting by me, loving me and showing me the baby and calling me
> back. Since everyone else was ignoring that I was completely traumatized,
> and paying attention only to my crotch, and DH knows nothing about birth
....
> how could the midwife do that to me.
>
> How could everyone we trusted do this to us and allow this to be done to
us.
> We were supposed to be safe, no matter where we were. You had a doula, a
> friend, your husband ...
>
> Dagny
>
>
My friend, doula and husband were all taken by surprise by how freaked out I
was. We were all not prepared for what happpened, if we had been I think we
would have been able to compensate and hopefully have calmed me down. We
never expected such a incredible difference in my attitudes with my
children's births. With Maggie I was relaxed, calm, and easily encouraged.
This time I anxious practically the whole entire time, major anxiety attack,
and felt betrayed that I was even there (even though that was my choice).
What made me upset later after I had time to think about it and talk about
it, they could have observed Will while I held him. Ultimately there was
nothing wrong with him and they could have monitored him with him on me.
It's so frustrating, but I am trying to look at the bad parts as something
to learn from and also that I trusted the people with me enough to show that
side of myself.
Can I ask you what happened in your birth? It sounds like you and I are
having the same feelings from the births. You are going to have an
unassisted birth this time? How else are you preparing yourself and your
husband mentally?
Kat
Mama tO Maggie 11/03/01
and Will 02/10/04

[Jill]

"Dagny" > wrote >
> How could everyone we trusted do this to us and allow this to be done to
us.
> We were supposed to be safe, no matter where we were. You had a doula, a
> friend, your husband ...
>
> Dagny
>


((((((((Dagny))))))))
A traumatic birth experience sucks! Let's hear it for our NEXT birth
experience which I trust will be much better!! (I haven't even thought of
trying for the next, lol, after all that trauma....but I will soon.)

Jill

[Larry McMahan]

Kat > writes:

: When we first arrived at the hospital I made a comment that I should have
: had a homebirth. We just didn't have the foresight that I wouldn't be happy
: at the hospital and save up money for a home birth. That won't be an issue
: next time. Thank you Larry, I am glad Will is a happy baby and all in all I
: had the birth I wanted (I just wasn't happy where I was:-)).

Well, all I can say at this point is that I hope this story is an
educational experience for those hospital advocates who can't
understand why anyone would homebirth!

Larry

[Dagny]

"Kat" > wrote in message
...

> Can I ask you what happened in your birth?

I can't do a birth story for usenet publication now/yet/?ever. I am not in
a good place.

>It sounds like you and I are
> having the same feelings from the births. You are going to have an
> unassisted birth this time? How else are you preparing yourself and your
> husband mentally?
>

Preparing myself isn't too hard because the idea of having another person,
any person, other than Meg, in the room with me when I birth again makes me
physically ill. Husband does not like, he will accept. -- Dagny

[Kat]

"Dagny" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kat" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Can I ask you what happened in your birth?
>
> I can't do a birth story for usenet publication now/yet/?ever. I am not
in
> a good place.

I can understand that, it took me awhile to post this, even write it. I
really condensed it, some of it feels too close to disclose.

>
> >It sounds like you and I are
> > having the same feelings from the births. You are going to have an
> > unassisted birth this time? How else are you preparing yourself and
your
> > husband mentally?
> >
>
> Preparing myself isn't too hard because the idea of having another person,
> any person, other than Meg, in the room with me when I birth again makes
me
> physically ill. Husband does not like, he will accept. -- Dagny
>
>
I wish you well. I hope you have the birth experience you want/need.

Kat
Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
and Will 02/10/04

[JoFromOz]

Dagny and Kat.

Both of your stories make me so very sad for you and for your babies.

I really, really want to be your Midwife for your next births to show you
that we aren't all like that!!!

The story made me cry, made me want to be there for you. I don't even know
either of you, but for some reason I got this protective feeling coming over
me to want to stand up for you and tell the other midwives/doctor off for
abusing you like that.

*sigh*

All I can say is I am terribly sorry, on behalf of the Midwifery profession!

Jo (RM)

[JoFromOz]

Larry McMahan wrote:

> Well, all I can say at this point is that I hope this story is an
> educational experience for those hospital advocates who can't
> understand why anyone would homebirth!
>
> Larry

Here, Here!

Women are abused every day in the hospital system, most of the time without
their knowledge. It makes me very sad.

Jo (RM)

[pologirl]

Kat ) posted her birth story, relating echoes to
being the victim of sexual abuse in her childhood. I gather that
in her previous, first birth, there were no such echoes.

Perhaps not due to any such echoes, but nonetheless in a similar
vein of emotional anguish, Dagny > wrote:
> I can't do a birth story for usenet publication now/yet/?ever. I
> am not in a good place.

I hear you both saying you would prefer unassisted births next time,
but does that really fix the problem, or just avoid stirring things
up?

Kat and Dagny, have you ever heard of critical stress debriefing?
This is something that first responders (EMTs, firemen, search and
rescue volunteers) sometimes use to help them let go of bad memories
or feelings. Sometimes, they need to do this not so much because
of a recent event, but because a recent event causes an old, almost
forgotten event or some other unresolved personal issues to come to
the surface. It is amazing how stuff you thought never bothered
you can emerge years later, and you discover in fact it bothers you.
A CS debriefing is confidential (no one takes any notes, and they
don't even need to know your name) and mediated by highly skilled
people who themselves have first hand experience dealing with their
own emotional/psychological trauma from their own work as first
responders. Typically a CS debriefing is also free; this is part
of the volunteer emergency services culture. A CS debriefing is
*not* counseling! It may last only an hour or two, there is no
followup, and its purpose is only to allow you / help you to vent.
Which by itself is often very therapeutic. Both of you sound like
you could benefit from such a debriefing, along with your DHs and
the other key players who appear in your birth stories (published
or not). Kat, you might even include the OB and/or nurse who made
your experience so unpleasant; including them might help them too,
but mainly it could help you to see that perhaps a large part of
your issues with them are really more to do with issues left over
from your childhood experiences. In my own birth story, I said my
greatest fear was bleeding to death, and that I was taking a risk
by delivering at the hospital I chose, which had a bad record WRT
delivery-related maternal deaths. What I didn't say was that when
I screwed up the courage to *talk* about this fear openly with my
midwife, reminding her of those deaths made her break down and cry.
My point here is that your birth experiences are causing you grief
but has it occurred to you that perhaps they are also causing your
caregivers grief? People who choose such careers are on the whole
very empathetic, although their behavior may not always reveal it.

Pologirl

[Joybelle]

"Kat" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> Sorry this was so long, Thanks for reading!!!
> Kat
> Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
> and Will 02/10/04 (almost 4 months old!!!)

Kat,
I am so glad you decided to share your birth story. I remember when you
first posted after Will was born about how traumatized you were. This was a
big step!! It took me a similar amount of time to share my son's
experience, and I literally bawled while I wrote the story. I know how
difficult, but therapeutic, it was to share.

I had a successful homebirth, but I was very upset with how some things
went. My midwife wasn't terrible to me, but I ended up feeling like my
birth experience was taken from me. I, like Dagny, am considering going
unassisted if I have another child. I had actually entertained the thought
with my last pregnancy, but I don't think I was ready for that step. That
being said, my first homebirth with the midwife was wonderful. I wish you
the best for you future homebirth! :)

I'm sorry you went through what you did.
--
Joy

Rose 1-30-99
Iris 2-28-01
Spencer 3-12-03

[Dagny]

"pologirl" > wrote in message
om...
> Kat ) posted her birth story, relating echoes to
> being the victim of sexual abuse in her childhood. I gather that
> in her previous, first birth, there were no such echoes.
>
> Perhaps not due to any such echoes, but nonetheless in a similar
> vein of emotional anguish, Dagny > wrote:
> > I can't do a birth story for usenet publication now/yet/?ever. I
> > am not in a good place.
>
> I hear you both saying you would prefer unassisted births next time,
> but does that really fix the problem, or just avoid stirring things
> up?

Define "problem." Does it fix the problem that I cannot possibly expect to
birth with someone in the room after what terrorism I experienced last time?
Abso****inglutely. Birth is a physiological process tied to psychology, and
becomes riskier if you do not have a safe zone to birth.

>
> Kat and Dagny, have you ever heard of critical stress debriefing?
>

<snip>
I thank you greatly for your concern.

There have been trials of critical stress debriefing and IIRC it has not
been effective with post traumatic stress disorder. I don't know if Kat has
PTSD. I do.

There are no reliable treatments for PTSD short of drugs. I am tapped out
of resources to gamble away on the chance that some nondrug behavioral
health treatment might do more good than harm.

> My point here is that your birth experiences are causing you grief
> but has it occurred to you that perhaps they are also causing your
> caregivers grief? People who choose such careers are on the whole
> very empathetic, although their behavior may not always reveal it.

Yes my caregiver is devastated, as well she should be. Women should not be
disrespected, violated, raped and permanently spiritually, mentally, and
physically damaged during a healthy normal birth, by their "caregiver"
intervening in such healthy normal birth, and causing grave problems, and
scaring the **** out of her, against the woman's wishes.


Dagny

[Kat]

"pologirl" > wrote in message
om...
> Kat ) posted her birth story, relating echoes to
> being the victim of sexual abuse in her childhood. I gather that
> in her previous, first birth, there were no such echoes.
>
> Perhaps not due to any such echoes, but nonetheless in a similar
> vein of emotional anguish, Dagny > wrote:
> > I can't do a birth story for usenet publication now/yet/?ever. I
> > am not in a good place.
>
> I hear you both saying you would prefer unassisted births next time,
> but does that really fix the problem, or just avoid stirring things
> up?
>
> Kat and Dagny, have you ever heard of critical stress debriefing?
> This is something that first responders (EMTs, firemen, search and
> rescue volunteers) sometimes use to help them let go of bad memories
> or feelings. Sometimes, they need to do this not so much because
> of a recent event, but because a recent event causes an old, almost
> forgotten event or some other unresolved personal issues to come to
> the surface. It is amazing how stuff you thought never bothered
> you can emerge years later, and you discover in fact it bothers you.
> A CS debriefing is confidential (no one takes any notes, and they
> don't even need to know your name) and mediated by highly skilled
> people who themselves have first hand experience dealing with their
> own emotional/psychological trauma from their own work as first
> responders. Typically a CS debriefing is also free; this is part
> of the volunteer emergency services culture. A CS debriefing is
> *not* counseling! It may last only an hour or two, there is no
> followup, and its purpose is only to allow you / help you to vent.
> Which by itself is often very therapeutic. Both of you sound like
> you could benefit from such a debriefing, along with your DHs and
> the other key players who appear in your birth stories (published
> or not). Kat, you might even include the OB and/or nurse who made
> your experience so unpleasant; including them might help them too,
> but mainly it could help you to see that perhaps a large part of
> your issues with them are really more to do with issues left over
> from your childhood experiences. In my own birth story, I said my
> greatest fear was bleeding to death, and that I was taking a risk
> by delivering at the hospital I chose, which had a bad record WRT
> delivery-related maternal deaths. What I didn't say was that when
> I screwed up the courage to *talk* about this fear openly with my
> midwife, reminding her of those deaths made her break down and cry.
> My point here is that your birth experiences are causing you grief
> but has it occurred to you that perhaps they are also causing your
> caregivers grief? People who choose such careers are on the whole
> very empathetic, although their behavior may not always reveal it.
>
> Pologirl

Thank you for your suggestion, and yes I was alluding to a sexual abuse
past. I have been seeing a counselor since before my DD was born and we had
no idea I would react like I did with DS's birth. I am thinking I might
have been feeling like I was wrenched from where I felt the safest and most
cared for, and most private sanctuary to the hosptial where I didn't feel
safe and felt that I was just a "patient" to the people, and I felt very out
of sync among other things there. THe thing is, my triage nurse was the one
who started the rollercoaster and noone knew how to help come down. In all
honesty I think my OB did his best for me but I think I would do better with
a midwife assisted homebirth (I never said I wanted unassisted), and I would
feel more comfortable discussing this things with her. Thank you again for
your suggestions and insight.
Kat
mama to Maggie 11/03/01
and Will 02/10/04

[Joybelle]

"Dagny" > wrote in message
...
> Oh Kat I am so sorry for what you went through. No one deserves this, why
> do they do it? You did such a good job in such an environment.
>
> Your story was really hard to read as so much of it reminded me of the
> trauma I had with my homebirth. Particularly about the hands being in you
> so much and how it made you feel. So you might want to think about
> unassisted homebirth too. Ericka and Richard have such positive homebirth
> midwife experiences, and we tend to be rah rah about midwives on this
board,
> and I was, too, until ...
>
> I feel sometimes that I was stripped of everything I was and everything I
> wanted to be. And I cannot say it is worse than what you went through,
but
> it happened in my bedroom and defiled my sanctuary, and I don't want to
sell
> the house just yet.

Oh, Dagny, I'm sorry. If I do have a fourth child I am considering an
unassisted birth. My last birth with the midwife left me feeling very
resentful and upset. She wasn't mean or disrespectful, but she didn't
"trust" me, I guess. If that makes any sense! I feel much of it is on my
shoulders... if only I'd stood up for myself, etc., but in labor one is very
vulnerable, and I'm not much of an advocate in the first place. Some things
we'd gone over prior to the birth didn't stand when we were actually
experiencing. At the time, I was so tired I couldn't find my voice, but
after I was so upset that I didn't say, "no" or something. I do remember at
one point wanting to say something, feeling irritated and thinking, "I
already talked about this with her! Why is she suggesting this?! Why is
she telling me this" and pretty much ended up saying, "whatever" because I
was just too tired to "argue".

I still do think the option of a midwife is a wonderful thing to have. I'm
always excited to read the homebirth/midwife stories. :)

Joy

[Kat]

"JoFromOz" > wrote in message
...
> Dagny and Kat.
>
> Both of your stories make me so very sad for you and for your babies.
>
> I really, really want to be your Midwife for your next births to show you
> that we aren't all like that!!!
>
> The story made me cry, made me want to be there for you. I don't even
know
> either of you, but for some reason I got this protective feeling coming
over
> me to want to stand up for you and tell the other midwives/doctor off for
> abusing you like that.
>
> *sigh*
>
> All I can say is I am terribly sorry, on behalf of the Midwifery
profession!
>
> Jo (RM)
>
>
Thank you Jo! You really validated my feelings!! I wanted to tell you that
I don't have bad feelings toward Midwives, with my DD's birth we had a CNM
and it was a wonderful birth considering I was induced (first time
impatience:-) and severely regretted). It was just so disappointing to go
from a good experience where I had such positive feelings about to a birth
that left me depressed and otherwise feeling horrible. I hope to either
help other women or have another baby (not just for the birth experience of
course or solve the emotional problems) to help me resove these issues and
help other women in need during labor,etc.
Kat
Maggie 11/03/01
and Will 02/10/04

[Kat]

"Joybelle" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kat" > wrote in message
> ...
> <snip>
> > Sorry this was so long, Thanks for reading!!!
> > Kat
> > Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
> > and Will 02/10/04 (almost 4 months old!!!)
>
> Kat,
> I am so glad you decided to share your birth story. I remember when you
> first posted after Will was born about how traumatized you were. This was
a
> big step!! It took me a similar amount of time to share my son's
> experience, and I literally bawled while I wrote the story. I know how
> difficult, but therapeutic, it was to share.
>
> I had a successful homebirth, but I was very upset with how some things
> went. My midwife wasn't terrible to me, but I ended up feeling like my
> birth experience was taken from me. I, like Dagny, am considering going
> unassisted if I have another child. I had actually entertained the
thought
> with my last pregnancy, but I don't think I was ready for that step. That
> being said, my first homebirth with the midwife was wonderful. I wish you
> the best for you future homebirth! :)
>
> I'm sorry you went through what you did.
> --
> Joy
>
> Rose 1-30-99
> Iris 2-28-01
> Spencer 3-12-03
>
>
Thank you Joy! I am sorry any woman ever had to have their experience
ruined by insensitivity/ignorance. It's so frustrating. It was majorly
therapeutic for me to post it, I'm a little closer to just letting go.
Kat
Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
and Will 02/10/04

[Kat]

"Joybelle" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dagny" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Oh Kat I am so sorry for what you went through. No one deserves this,
why
> > do they do it? You did such a good job in such an environment.
> >
> > Your story was really hard to read as so much of it reminded me of the
> > trauma I had with my homebirth. Particularly about the hands being in
you
> > so much and how it made you feel. So you might want to think about
> > unassisted homebirth too. Ericka and Richard have such positive
homebirth
> > midwife experiences, and we tend to be rah rah about midwives on this
> board,
> > and I was, too, until ...
> >
> > I feel sometimes that I was stripped of everything I was and everything
I
> > wanted to be. And I cannot say it is worse than what you went through,
> but
> > it happened in my bedroom and defiled my sanctuary, and I don't want to
> sell
> > the house just yet.
>
> Oh, Dagny, I'm sorry. If I do have a fourth child I am considering an
> unassisted birth. My last birth with the midwife left me feeling very
> resentful and upset. She wasn't mean or disrespectful, but she didn't
> "trust" me, I guess. If that makes any sense! I feel much of it is on my
> shoulders... if only I'd stood up for myself, etc., but in labor one is
very
> vulnerable, and I'm not much of an advocate in the first place. Some
things
> we'd gone over prior to the birth didn't stand when we were actually
> experiencing. At the time, I was so tired I couldn't find my voice, but
> after I was so upset that I didn't say, "no" or something. I do remember
at
> one point wanting to say something, feeling irritated and thinking, "I
> already talked about this with her! Why is she suggesting this?! Why is
> she telling me this" and pretty much ended up saying, "whatever" because
I
> was just too tired to "argue".
>
> I still do think the option of a midwife is a wonderful thing to have.
I'm
> always excited to read the homebirth/midwife stories. :)
>
> Joy
>
>
I am really relating to what you are saying Joy...I told the OB, and gave
him a birth plan that told him what I wanted and didn't want and some of the
things still happened. I told him I didn't want to feel exposed (I didn't
feel exposed when I was squatting and practically naked but did when they
had me lay down on my back with my legs spread and him staring at me and
keeping his hand on me) and told him that touching me on my bottom makes me
uncomfortable and that it was due to a sexual abuse past, and he said he
understood and would do his best. But when it came to the actual birth it
all went out the window, some of it necessarily but some not so much. I
lost my trust for the man, even though I know he's a good man and he did
what he thought was best. If I tried to talk to him I am afraid he wouldn't
understand, but I know he would be sad and I guess I am more worried about
his feelings than my own. And I really don't want to feel stupid and
uncomfortable talking about it. Silly hmm?
I will definitely try a midwife assisted homebirth if there is a third
child. I too like to hear about other sucessful stories.
Kat
Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
and Will 02/10/04

[Cheryl S.]

"Kat" > wrote in message
...
> I am really relating to what you are saying Joy...I told
> the OB, and gave him a birth plan that told him what I
> wanted and didn't want and some of the things still
> happened. I told him I didn't want to feel exposed (I
> didn't feel exposed when I was squatting and practically
> naked but did when they had me lay down on my back
> with my legs spread and him staring at me and keeping
> his hand on me) and told him that touching me on my
> bottom makes me uncomfortable and that it was due to
> a sexual abuse past, and he said he understood and
> would do his best. But when it came to the actual birth it
> all went out the window, some of it necessarily but some
> not so much. I lost my trust for the man, even though I
> know he's a good man and he did what he thought was
> best. If I tried to talk to him I am afraid he wouldn't
> understand, but I know he would be sad and I guess I am
> more worried about his feelings than my own. And I really
> don't want to feel stupid and uncomfortable talking about it.
> Silly hmm? I will definitely try a midwife assisted homebirth
> if there is a third child. I too like to hear about other sucessful
> stories.

I am so sorry that you felt such a loss of control and had caregivers
that didn't understand what you needed. I can somewhat relate, though
certainly not to the extent you are feeling. I too had a birth plan
that was agreed to and was mostly followed, but when it came to pushing
and immediately after my first child's birth, the plan went out the
window and it seemed all the staff went on auto-pilot. I was made to
stay on my back, even though I clearly stated my objection to it twice.
Julie was taken from me before I even got to touch her, for no medical
reason, just expediency in getting all their 'chores' done so they could
move on to the next room. Etc. Even though I chose a completely
different setting and caregivers the next time - midwives and a birth
center rather than OB and hospital - I found I never could fully relax
and trust them. My second birth did go exactly as I wanted, but the
realization of that fact didn't come to me until two hours after he was
born. Suddenly I thought, "I'm done. It's over, and nobody messed with
me!" It bothers me that the negatives of my first birth cast a shadow
over what would otherwise have been a perfect birth experience. It was
like I got robbed twice.

I strongly encourage you to share your feelings with your OB. If you
can't do it in person, please write a letter. It is important for your
own process in dealing with it, and also so that he has some idea that
what he did is not OK. Hopefully it will cause him to take it more
seriously next time he attends a birth where a woman has a history of
sexual abuse. If you have another child, I'd suggest that you discuss
Will's birth with them at length until *you* are sure they understand
what the problems were and you have complete confidence that those
problems will not recur. I did not do that, and wish I had, so that I
might have felt more at peace during my second birth.

Healing vibes to you, and congratulations on your wonderful baby boy!
--
Cheryl S.
Mom to Julie, 3, and Jaden, 9 months

[Dagny]

"JoFromOz" > wrote in message
...
> Dagny and Kat.
>
> Both of your stories make me so very sad for you and for your babies.
>
> I really, really want to be your Midwife for your next births to show you
> that we aren't all like that!!!
>
> The story made me cry, made me want to be there for you. I don't even
know
> either of you, but for some reason I got this protective feeling coming
over
> me to want to stand up for you and tell the other midwives/doctor off for
> abusing you like that.
>
> *sigh*
>
> All I can say is I am terribly sorry, on behalf of the Midwifery
profession!
>
> Jo (RM)
>

It took me a while to respond but thank you Jo. Yes I was raped, I did not
have midwifery care despite hiring a CPM who gave all the right answers.
Had she not forgotten she was a midwife, my life would be very different.
But it is too late, no one will ever see me naked in birth again, no one
will ever see me birth again, no one will ever do any type of pelvic "exam"
on me for the rest of my life unless I am on extreme drugs. Sincerely,
Dagny

[Kat]

"Cheryl S." > wrote in message
...
> "Kat" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I am really relating to what you are saying Joy...I told
> > the OB, and gave him a birth plan that told him what I
> > wanted and didn't want and some of the things still
> > happened. I told him I didn't want to feel exposed (I
> > didn't feel exposed when I was squatting and practically
> > naked but did when they had me lay down on my back
> > with my legs spread and him staring at me and keeping
> > his hand on me) and told him that touching me on my
> > bottom makes me uncomfortable and that it was due to
> > a sexual abuse past, and he said he understood and
> > would do his best. But when it came to the actual birth it
> > all went out the window, some of it necessarily but some
> > not so much. I lost my trust for the man, even though I
> > know he's a good man and he did what he thought was
> > best. If I tried to talk to him I am afraid he wouldn't
> > understand, but I know he would be sad and I guess I am
> > more worried about his feelings than my own. And I really
> > don't want to feel stupid and uncomfortable talking about it.
> > Silly hmm? I will definitely try a midwife assisted homebirth
> > if there is a third child. I too like to hear about other sucessful
> > stories.
>
> I am so sorry that you felt such a loss of control and had caregivers
> that didn't understand what you needed. I can somewhat relate, though
> certainly not to the extent you are feeling. I too had a birth plan
> that was agreed to and was mostly followed, but when it came to pushing
> and immediately after my first child's birth, the plan went out the
> window and it seemed all the staff went on auto-pilot. I was made to
> stay on my back, even though I clearly stated my objection to it twice.
> Julie was taken from me before I even got to touch her, for no medical
> reason, just expediency in getting all their 'chores' done so they could
> move on to the next room. Etc. Even though I chose a completely
> different setting and caregivers the next time - midwives and a birth
> center rather than OB and hospital - I found I never could fully relax
> and trust them. My second birth did go exactly as I wanted, but the
> realization of that fact didn't come to me until two hours after he was
> born. Suddenly I thought, "I'm done. It's over, and nobody messed with
> me!" It bothers me that the negatives of my first birth cast a shadow
> over what would otherwise have been a perfect birth experience. It was
> like I got robbed twice.
>
> I strongly encourage you to share your feelings with your OB. If you
> can't do it in person, please write a letter. It is important for your
> own process in dealing with it, and also so that he has some idea that
> what he did is not OK. Hopefully it will cause him to take it more
> seriously next time he attends a birth where a woman has a history of
> sexual abuse. If you have another child, I'd suggest that you discuss
> Will's birth with them at length until *you* are sure they understand
> what the problems were and you have complete confidence that those
> problems will not recur. I did not do that, and wish I had, so that I
> might have felt more at peace during my second birth.
>
> Healing vibes to you, and congratulations on your wonderful baby boy!
> --
> Cheryl S.
> Mom to Julie, 3, and Jaden, 9 months
>
>
Thank you Cheryl! If we have another child I won't hesitate to tell them
everything that happened, maybe give them the birth story that I wrote and
discuss. Whoe knows? I might not even have another child:-/ Anyway, take
care and thank you again.
Kat
Mama to Maggie 11/03/01
and Will 02/10/04

[Joybelle]

"Kat" > wrote in message
...
> > Oh, Dagny, I'm sorry. If I do have a fourth child I am considering an
> > unassisted birth. My last birth with the midwife left me feeling very
> > resentful and upset. She wasn't mean or disrespectful, but she didn't
> > "trust" me, I guess. If that makes any sense! I feel much of it is on
my
> > shoulders... if only I'd stood up for myself, etc., but in labor one is
> very
> > vulnerable, and I'm not much of an advocate in the first place. Some
> things
> > we'd gone over prior to the birth didn't stand when we were actually
> > experiencing. At the time, I was so tired I couldn't find my voice, but
> > after I was so upset that I didn't say, "no" or something. I do
remember
> at
> > one point wanting to say something, feeling irritated and thinking, "I
> > already talked about this with her! Why is she suggesting this?! Why
is
> > she telling me this" and pretty much ended up saying, "whatever"
because
> I
> > was just too tired to "argue".
> >
> > I still do think the option of a midwife is a wonderful thing to have.
> I'm
> > always excited to read the homebirth/midwife stories. :)
> >
> > Joy
> >
> >
> I am really relating to what you are saying Joy...I told the OB, and gave
> him a birth plan that told him what I wanted and didn't want and some of
the
> things still happened. I told him I didn't want to feel exposed (I didn't
> feel exposed when I was squatting and practically naked but did when they
> had me lay down on my back with my legs spread and him staring at me and
> keeping his hand on me) and told him that touching me on my bottom makes
me
> uncomfortable and that it was due to a sexual abuse past, and he said he
> understood and would do his best. But when it came to the actual birth it
> all went out the window, some of it necessarily but some not so much. I
> lost my trust for the man, even though I know he's a good man and he did
> what he thought was best. If I tried to talk to him I am afraid he
wouldn't
> understand, but I know he would be sad and I guess I am more worried about
> his feelings than my own. And I really don't want to feel stupid and
> uncomfortable talking about it. Silly hmm?

Well, if it's silly, I guess I'm silly, too. I feel the same way. I
haven't spoken to her about it at all. I really like my midwife as a person,
but when it came to this last birth I definitely feel some resentment. I'm
mostly frustrated with myself, though, for not having the ability to say
what I needed during the labor. It does make me upset that we trust that we
will be listened to, heard, understood, trusted, remembered during one of
our most vulnerable times.

> I will definitely try a midwife assisted homebirth if there is a third
> child. I too like to hear about other sucessful stories.

I feel both my homebirths were very successful. I birthed two beautiful
babies in my living room and got to snuggle them in my own bed that very
night. :) I think you will love having a midwife assisted homebirth.


--
Joy

Rose 1-30-99
Iris 2-28-01
Spencer 3-12-03