Re: Advice re miscarriage

[Melody]

"Kazh" > wrote in message
...
Thank you.

Is there any chance it was twin and she lost one ?
She is curious as twins run in her family.

My best friend lost one twin & not the other, so it is definitely a
possibility. They were going to do a d&c and did an ultrasound first, that's
when they found the second sac. I'd recommend she ask for a u/s before the
d&c.

Melody

[Jenrose]

"Kazh" > wrote in message
...
A friend of mine suffered a MC 2 weeks ago, she was 6 wks PG and bleed for 4
days.
Doctor asked if she wanted a d&c or let it go naturally, she opted for
naturally.
She went for tests last week which showed results down to 600 (HCG ?) this
week she has been back for more tests and it shows 3000+ and it showed up
positive for a HPT..............any ideas what is going on with her body
right now ?
----------

Given that situation, I'd be back in for an ultrasound. (and I did have a
miscarriage at 7 weeks 2 weeks ago, so I'm not blowing smoke here...) But my
hcg level just hit undetectable yesterday, and I just got a negative OPK, so
we're good there.

At that level, I'd wonder if she wsa really 6 weeks pg and if she was really
miscarrying. Others have mentioned the differential diagnoses of molar, etc.

Do let us know! I'm definitely a low-tech gal, and I had my miscarriage
naturally, but *did* get an ultrasound to rule-out ectopic because of the
type of pain I was having, and my blood tests were dropping consistently.

FWIW... at 7 w, 2 d, my hcg was 3366. At 7w 4d (right before the baby came
out) my level was 1500. Just over 1 week later, I figured that my level
would be about 60-ish, and sure enough, I got a faint HPT+. A week after
that, a negative test with a faint evap line, and I figured my level should
be down below 10-ish at that point,--the OPK (which is usually more
sensitive to HCG than the HPT) didn't get a line at all.

If her level is going up, either she's still pg, or still got something
growing in there, and it's a case where I'd be definitely getting an
ultrasound, and I *really* don't say that lightly. I would not get an
ultrasound in a normal pregnancy, not for dates, not for gender, not for
nuchal scans, etc. But I would get an ultrasound to rule out molar or
ectopic in the situation you've described.
Jenrose

[Jamie Clark]

You know, I didn't really clue in to the basic fact that she might not have
miscarried at all. The OP said she "bleed for 4 days" but to a newly
pregnant woman, a very small amount of spotting can easily seem like
bleeding. Once you've actually miscarried, you know the buckets of blood
that entails, you never mistake spotting, even fresh red blood, for bleeding
again. I know several women who bled enough at 6 weeks to make them think
they had lost the pregnancy, only to see the heartbeat on the u/s a week or
so later.

The OP also said, "She went for tests last week which showed results down to
600 (HCG ?)" which led me to assume that she'd already had a previous beta
that showed higher results, but as I reread the original post, it doesn't
actually say if she had previous betas, or what they were.

So, it's entirely possible that the OP's friend went to the doctor knowing
she was pregnant, and assuming 6 weeks, and bleeding/spotting for some
number of days. If the had a beta test at that time, and it was "only" 600
(which would be completely wonderful for 4 weeks pg, but not so good for 6
weeks pg), they could have diagnosed her with a miscarriage, based on the
low (for 6 weeks) beta. But, she could have only been 4 weeks pg. Now, 2
weeks later, her spotting stopped, and she could still be pregnant, with
beta numbers in a normal range.

All in all, another u/s should answer her questions. If she is still pg and
her dates where off, she should be able to see a sac, fetal pole, and
hopefully a heartbeat. I'd have those betas drawn again, and see what they
are doing, as well.
--

Jamie & Taylor
Earth Angel, 1/3/03

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Password: Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
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Check out our Adoption Page at http://home.earthlink.net/~jamielee6

[Ilse Witch]

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 22:04:33 +0100, Kazh wrote:

> A friend of mine suffered a MC 2 weeks ago, she was 6 wks PG and bleed
> for 4 days. Doctor asked if she wanted a d&c or let it go naturally, she
> opted for naturally. She went for tests last week which showed results
> down to 600 (HCG ?) this week she has been back for more tests and it
> shows 3000+ and it showed up positive for a HPT..............any ideas
> what is going on with her body right now ?

Chances are she is still pregnant and suffered loss of one of twins. It is
rare, but does happen on a regular basis. Another hCG and preferably an
u/s should show what's happening.

--
-- I
mommy to DS (July '02)
mommy to three tiny angels (28 Oct'03, 17 Feb'04 & 20 May'04)
guardian of DH (33)

[Ilse Witch]

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 04:48:28 +0000, Jamie Clark wrote:

> All in all, another u/s should answer her questions. If she is still pg and
> her dates where off, she should be able to see a sac, fetal pole, and
> hopefully a heartbeat. I'd have those betas drawn again, and see what they
> are doing, as well.

My thoughts exactly, only I didn't have time to put down all the details,
and like you, didn't think about the amount of bleeding... Indeed, she may
not have m/c'd at all.

--
-- I
mommy to DS (July '02)
mommy to three tiny angels (28 Oct'03, 17 Feb'04 & 20 May'04)
guardian of DH (33)

[Jenrose]

"Jamie Clark" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> You know, I didn't really clue in to the basic fact that she might not
have
> miscarried at all. The OP said she "bleed for 4 days" but to a newly
> pregnant woman, a very small amount of spotting can easily seem like
> bleeding. Once you've actually miscarried, you know the buckets of blood
> that entails, you never mistake spotting, even fresh red blood, for
bleeding
> again. I know several women who bled enough at 6 weeks to make them think
> they had lost the pregnancy, only to see the heartbeat on the u/s a week
or
> so later.

My miscarriage didn't involve "buckets"... just "a little heavier than a
period" for one day following two days of bright red spotting.

But the dead givaway, so to speak, was that I passed a placenta, sac, fetal
tissue... Then the bleeding slowed to *less* than a normal period. I think
my total blood loss over 8 days was less than the period prior, although
that one heavy day could have made up for it, the period prior was 7 heavy
days and one of spotting, vs 4 total spotting days, 1 heavy and 3 medium
days with the m/c.

Jenrose

[Kazh]

Thanks to everybody for your thoughts, I've passed on ALL the =
information to her and she has booked in for a U/S today. I'll let you =
all know later how she gets on.

I'm off for my blood tests tomorrow and will find out my results in 2 =
weeks, as to if there are any problems with mw stopping us conceiving. =
Fingers crossed for me.

"Ilse Witch" > wrote in message =
...
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 22:04:33 +0100, Kazh wrote:

[BRC]

"Jenrose" > wrote in message
s.com...
>
> "Jamie Clark" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > You know, I didn't really clue in to the basic fact that she might not
> have
> > miscarried at all. The OP said she "bleed for 4 days" but to a newly
> > pregnant woman, a very small amount of spotting can easily seem like
> > bleeding. Once you've actually miscarried, you know the buckets of
blood
> > that entails, you never mistake spotting, even fresh red blood, for
> bleeding
> > again. I know several women who bled enough at 6 weeks to make them
think
> > they had lost the pregnancy, only to see the heartbeat on the u/s a week
> or
> > so later.
>
> My miscarriage didn't involve "buckets"... just "a little heavier than a
> period" for one day following two days of bright red spotting.
>
> But the dead givaway, so to speak, was that I passed a placenta, sac,
fetal
> tissue... Then the bleeding slowed to *less* than a normal period. I think
> my total blood loss over 8 days was less than the period prior, although
> that one heavy day could have made up for it, the period prior was 7 heavy
> days and one of spotting, vs 4 total spotting days, 1 heavy and 3 medium
> days with the m/c.

I bled solidly for 5 days, quite a fair bit of fresh blood and clotting
before it settled down. I think that was one of the most upsetting parts,
seeing all that blood each time. I only bleed for a day or two during my
period so we knew something was wrong straight away.

Jen

[Ilse Witch]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 05:24:04 +0000, Jenrose wrote:

> My miscarriage didn't involve "buckets"... just "a little heavier than a
> period" for one day following two days of bright red spotting.

But still you will have noticed that it was quite different from the more
common first trimester bleeding, since you pass little pieces of the
endometrium. The amount of bloodloss depends on how far along you were. My
first m/c I was 10w, and "buckets" would be about right. But the other two
at 7w were indeed no more than an extremely heavy period...

--
-- I
mommy to DS (July '02)
mommy to three tiny angels (28 Oct'03, 17 Feb'04 & 20 May'04)
guardian of DH (33)

[Jamie Clark]

I was just going by my experience on the "buckets" comment -- for my 6
chemical pgs, which began and ended around 4-5 weeks, it was nothing more
than a period -- no more pain, no more blood, nothing. For my second
blighted ovum, diagnosed at about 8 weeks (first was taken care of with a
D&E at 8.5 weeks), I waited to miscarry on my own. I didn't end up actually
miscarrying for about 2 more weeks -- so I was 10 weeks along, and although
I only heavily bleed for about 10 hours, it was far and beyond heavier than
anything I'd ever experienced before. Far and beyond. I was up and down
every hour, all night to the bathroom, to change pads and tampons (I know, I
shouldn't have used tampons, but didn't know that at the time), and each
time, there were pools and clots of blood that slurped out into the toilet.
This was every hour. By the end of the night, it had tapered off to a
normal "heavy" period day for a number of days, then spotting, etc. But
that one night, it was as if my cervix just opened up, and the contents of
my uterus poured out. Although I saw lots of clots and blood, I never did
see any placenta or fetal tissue. I think that is because the fetus had
stopped growing around 5-6 weeks, before the heart ever started to beat, and
may well have been reabsorbed.
--

Jamie & Taylor
Earth Angel, 1/3/03

Check out Taylor Marlys -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

Check out our Adoption Page at http://home.earthlink.net/~jamielee6

[Kazh]

Update -=20

U/S revealed a foetus and sac but no heartbeat :-(
They said it was a ''missed miscarriage''. She has to see it she =
miscarriages again in the next 2 weeks, if not she will have to go and =
see them for a tablets to help it along or a D&C.

I can't understand why they would leave her 2 weeks before helping. The =
lose is bad enough but to have to WAIT for baby to miscarry is =
diabolical.


"Kazh" > wrote in message =
...
A friend of mine suffered a MC 2 weeks ago, she was 6 wks PG and bleed =
for 4 days.
Doctor asked if she wanted a d&c or let it go naturally, she opted for =
naturally.
She went for tests last week which showed results down to 600 (HCG ?) =
this week she has been back for more tests and it shows 3000+ and it =
showed up positive for a HPT..............any ideas what is going on =
with her body right now ?

Any advice great.

Kazh

[Ilse Witch]

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 13:04:30 +0100, Kazh wrote:

> U/S revealed a foetus and sac but no heartbeat :-( They said it was a
> ''missed miscarriage''.

I'm so sorry for her.

> I can't understand why they would leave her 2 weeks before helping. The
> lose is bad enough but to have to WAIT for baby to miscarry is
> diabolical.

I disagree. First of all, I've noticed that going through the actual
process of m/c made it easier for me to accept that it wasn't meant to
be. Second, there are always some risks involved in a D&C, which I'd
rather not take. They are small, but as long as my body can do it by
itself, I prefer that option. Of course, a natural m/c isn't completely
without risks, but with proper care afterwards, I feel they are less
dangerous. And finally, having to wait will allow her to come to terms
with this in a natural way. I find that in some cases a D&C is done so
quick, that the woman hardly has time to realize what is happening. She
will feel she is fine soon after, and continue without taking the time to
grief and get to terms with it. Of course this is a YMMV issue...

I can understand why you feel that way, BTDT. But believe me, if you are
actually in that situation, you may feel very different. Nevertheless, if
your friend feels she is ready to have a D&C done earlier, she can always
ask for it. If she is denied at that point, I'd really call it diabolical.

--
-- I
mommy to DS (July '02)
mommy to three tiny angels (28 Oct'03, 17 Feb'04 & 20 May'04)
guardian of DH (33)

[Jenrose]

"Ilse Witch" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 13:04:30 +0100, Kazh wrote:
>
> > U/S revealed a foetus and sac but no heartbeat :-( They said it was a
> > ''missed miscarriage''.
>
> I'm so sorry for her.
>
> > I can't understand why they would leave her 2 weeks before helping. The
> > lose is bad enough but to have to WAIT for baby to miscarry is
> > diabolical.
>
> I disagree. First of all, I've noticed that going through the actual
> process of m/c made it easier for me to accept that it wasn't meant to
> be. Second, there are always some risks involved in a D&C, which I'd
> rather not take. They are small, but as long as my body can do it by
> itself, I prefer that option. Of course, a natural m/c isn't completely
> without risks, but with proper care afterwards, I feel they are less
> dangerous. And finally, having to wait will allow her to come to terms
> with this in a natural way. I find that in some cases a D&C is done so
> quick, that the woman hardly has time to realize what is happening. She
> will feel she is fine soon after, and continue without taking the time to
> grief and get to terms with it. Of course this is a YMMV issue...
>

Y'know, when I think of it, I really did a whole lot of my grief work during
the process of losing the baby--after, I grieved hard, but during I was
really getting through both the physical pain and the emotional pain. But
the fact that my body *did* the miscarriage effectively was actually a
comfort to me. A d&c would have been VERY traumatic for me--I do not
tolerate other people messing with my body. It was painful enough, but at
least no one was doing things *to* me, and I wasn't knocked out.

Jenrose

[Donna Metler]

"Jenrose" > wrote in message
s.com...
>
> "Ilse Witch" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 13:04:30 +0100, Kazh wrote:
> >
> > > U/S revealed a foetus and sac but no heartbeat :-( They said it was a
> > > ''missed miscarriage''.
> >
> > I'm so sorry for her.
> >
> > > I can't understand why they would leave her 2 weeks before helping.
The
> > > lose is bad enough but to have to WAIT for baby to miscarry is
> > > diabolical.
> >
> > I disagree. First of all, I've noticed that going through the actual
> > process of m/c made it easier for me to accept that it wasn't meant to
> > be. Second, there are always some risks involved in a D&C, which I'd
> > rather not take. They are small, but as long as my body can do it by
> > itself, I prefer that option. Of course, a natural m/c isn't completely
> > without risks, but with proper care afterwards, I feel they are less
> > dangerous. And finally, having to wait will allow her to come to terms
> > with this in a natural way. I find that in some cases a D&C is done so
> > quick, that the woman hardly has time to realize what is happening. She
> > will feel she is fine soon after, and continue without taking the time
to
> > grief and get to terms with it. Of course this is a YMMV issue...
> >
>
> Y'know, when I think of it, I really did a whole lot of my grief work
during
> the process of losing the baby--after, I grieved hard, but during I was
> really getting through both the physical pain and the emotional pain. But
> the fact that my body *did* the miscarriage effectively was actually a
> comfort to me. A d&c would have been VERY traumatic for me--I do not
> tolerate other people messing with my body. It was painful enough, but at
> least no one was doing things *to* me, and I wasn't knocked out.
>
> Jenrose
>
In addition, depending on who does the D&C and how it's handled, it is
entirely possible that she could end up next to someone who is having one by
CHOICE. I know how awful it was for me to be around pregnant women for the
first few months after losing Brian, and how much of an effort it took just
to go into the perinatologist's office for aftercare appointments (and how
much I appreciated them taking me straight back into a room, whether the
doctor was ready or not!)-running into someone who had voluntarily
terminated a pregnancy would have risked a murderous reaction!


>

[Kazh]

UPDATE -=20

She has chosen NOT to wait and to do ahead and have the d&c, she is =
booked in for 7.30am tomorrow.

BTW I found out today this is not her first MC .........it;s her =
8th...........I didn't know what to say to her.

[Ilse Witch]

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 20:58:44 +0100, Kazh wrote:

> BTW I found out today this is not her first MC .........it;s her
> 8th...........I didn't know what to say to her.

*gasp*

Just be there for her. You couldn't possible imagine what it must feel
like, but give her the opportunity to talk about it. Express your own
feelings to open a line of communication, don't make any assumptions on
how she feels, as you may never truly know.

Do you know if she has seen a specialist about this?

--
-- I
mommy to DS (July '02)
mommy to three tiny angels (28 Oct'03, 17 Feb'04 & 20 May'04)
guardian of DH (33)

[Kazh]

She has something called placental previa ? She had one son (12) then =
son number 2 (10) then a 7 MC's whilst trying for #3, (now 21/2) now MC =
#8.............I was gobsmacked too.=20

update - she was due to go in on Thursday at 7am for her d&c, they =
didn't have a bed and put her off till Friday.............now they've =
put her off till Sunday !! As if it's not bad enough.............

"Ilse Witch" > wrote in message =
...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 20:58:44 +0100, Kazh wrote:

> BTW I found out today this is not her first MC .........it;s her
> 8th...........I didn't know what to say to her.

*gasp*

Just be there for her. You couldn't possible imagine what it must feel
like, but give her the opportunity to talk about it. Express your own
feelings to open a line of communication, don't make any assumptions on
how she feels, as you may never truly know.

Do you know if she has seen a specialist about this?=20