What to say to recent c-section mom?

[Erin]

Hi all,

A dear friend and I had the wonderful experience of being pregnant at the
same time. I was in the third trimester when she was in her first. My
daughter's birth had a couple complications, but it was vaginal, and my baby
was healthy. So despite some high jinks along the way, I was happy and
satisfied. Labor was very painful, but I didn't really think about the pain
afterwards, and it was easy to let go of the little disapointments that had
occurred because overall, I thought that everything went great.

Now my friend has just given birth to her own perfect little girl, but her
experience was extremely traumatic: posterior baby, back labor, a cervix
that dilated but never moved forward enough, a baby that just wouldn't turn,
and finally, a C-section.

My friend is having trouble processing what happened to her. She got angry
when a couple people made comments suggesting she should "forget" her bad
birth experience, as if it were ungrateful for her mention the pain since
her baby was ok! I'm not so clueless as to say something *that* idiotic,
but honestly, I am at a bit of a loss at what to say. Right after the birth
I told her that I was sorry for her disappointment and hurt and knew that
she'd gone through a TON of pain, and had done a good job with it. But I'm
wondering if there is anything else I could do/say? Advice from C-section
survivors would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance. -- Erin, mom to DD, seven months old.

[Mary W.]

Erin wrote:

> My friend is having trouble processing what happened to her. She got angry
> when a couple people made comments suggesting she should "forget" her bad
> birth experience, as if it were ungrateful for her mention the pain since
> her baby was ok! I'm not so clueless as to say something *that* idiotic,
> but honestly, I am at a bit of a loss at what to say. Right after the birth
> I told her that I was sorry for her disappointment and hurt and knew that
> she'd gone through a TON of pain, and had done a good job with it. But I'm
> wondering if there is anything else I could do/say? Advice from C-section
> survivors would be most appreciated.

What you said is just right. I appreciated comments like "Congratulations
on your baby, I'm sorry you had to have a c-section, that sucks."

Offer to let her talk about it if she wishes. Comments like "at
least the baby is OK, that's all that matters" are not helpful. A woman's
birth experience counts too.

If she'd like, she could join the ICAN list (www.ican-online.org).
Lots of women who can commiserate with her feelings of sadness
over her c-section. I found it very helpful (they are very pro
VBAC, and can be a little strident in their anti-c-section
view, but after my section, that's what I needed).

Mary

[Jacqui]

Erin wibbled

> Now my friend has just given birth to her own perfect little girl,
> but her experience was extremely traumatic: posterior baby, back
> labor, a cervix that dilated but never moved forward enough, a
> baby that just wouldn't turn, and finally, a C-section.
>
> My friend is having trouble processing what happened to her. She
> got angry when a couple people made comments suggesting she should
> "forget" her bad birth experience, as if it were ungrateful for
> her mention the pain since her baby was ok! I'm not so clueless
> as to say something *that* idiotic, but honestly, I am at a bit of
> a loss at what to say. Right after the birth I told her that I
> was sorry for her disappointment and hurt and knew that she'd gone
> through a TON of pain, and had done a good job with it. But I'm
> wondering if there is anything else I could do/say? Advice from
> C-section survivors would be most appreciated.

Some of what your friend went through is the same as my experience.
I had periods of feeling terrible about it (particularly when T was
in SCBU, and then again several weeks afterwards). The MW I saw at 6
weeks pp (wound infection) was very helpful though - she was the one
with me during the last four hours of labour and the surgery, by
coincidence, so she had credibility when she told me that given the
position of the baby, the non-compliance of my body during labour,
the stress and strain I was going through to no avail - agonising
over what might have been was futile, we had a healthy baby and a
reasonably healthy mother able to look after it, and had we delayed
too much on the section we would not have had one or both of those.
Now I know that that is true in my case for non-pregnancy reasons,
which are not the norm, but it did help me to think about it from
that POV. It wasn't the same as an uninformed 'forget it you have a
healthy baby', she did re-describe the position T was in and
reminded me of a few details that had slipped my mind. I also talked
to a couple of people who post here, and they gave me similar advice
(without the specifics since they weren't there) and helped me feel
better about it - it's not the end of the world, it does happen to
other people, it feels terrible but it does pass, there are much
worse things that could happen, health of mother and baby is
paramount, etc. Cliches become cliches because they're true and bear
repeating.

Does your friend have a copy of her notes? Rereading mine helped a
lot, as did knowing I had the opportunity to discuss them with staff
at the hospital if I wanted to. I decided not to, after talking to
the MW and my GP, I was happy with what I read and the course of
events, in the end. It might help her to talk about it with her
birth partner(s) too, they might remember things that will help her
accept the situation. From the POV of what you can say, I think you
have already got it right. You've commiserated without being
clueless, and now I'd think giving her a bit of advice on what she
can do now, without sounding like you are preaching, is the best
thing you can do. HTH.

Jac

[Leslie]

As someone who has been unfortunate enough to have had 3 c-sections, I think
you said just the right things. I'm sure your friend appreciates your
sensitivity. To so many people nowadays, a section just doesn't seem like it
is a big deal, so it can feel strange if you've had one and are really upset.

I would say to make yourself available if she needs to talk about it, and if
she's planning more babies, let her know that she has a great chance of VBAC.

Leslie

[Dagny]

"Erin" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> My friend is having trouble processing what happened to her. She got
angry
> when a couple people made comments suggesting she should "forget" her bad
> birth experience, as if it were ungrateful for her mention the pain since
> her baby was ok! I'm not so clueless as to say something *that* idiotic,
> but honestly, I am at a bit of a loss at what to say. Right after the
birth
> I told her that I was sorry for her disappointment and hurt and knew that
> she'd gone through a TON of pain, and had done a good job with it. But
I'm
> wondering if there is anything else I could do/say? Advice from C-section
> survivors would be most appreciated.

I didn't have a c-section, but I had a physically & emotionally traumatic
vaginal delivery in which I was abused, and I have PTSD.

Tell her, I love you. Tell her that all the time. If she is up to it, ask
her to dinner/lunch/shopping/the pool a lot. If she goes but is depressed
or staring into space, just love her through it and call her to do something
again, even though it is not as much fun for you because she is a big silent
lump. Tell her, when she has her next baby, whatever you can do so that it
doesn't happen again, you will be there for her 100%. Sometimes these
things happen because practitioners ignore or try to renegotiate birth plans
that they have promised to abide by. For example, a doctor or midwife might
suddenly argue for AROM during the labor, which the woman might give in on,
and then it turns out that has put her on the clock and she might blame the
section on her not having more time for the baby to turn. That kind of
thing, it adds this horrible level of betrayal to the complex injury of
birth trauma. So if that is going on, she might need to know that you are
going to be there with her next time to make sure her wishes are followed
100% and nobody tries to renegotiate when she is vulnerable. Tell her
husband, if he can't understand, that it's normal and understandable for a
woman to be traumatized in these situations. Sometimes families need a
little help being empathetic.

Get her a copy of _Rebounding From Childbirth_ by Madsen. Get her
chocolate.

Thanks for being a good friend.
-- Dagny
Mom to Meg, 10/03
and EDD 1/19/05

[Sophie]

> things to do/say..
>
> "I'm sorry things didn't go the way you'd hoped..."
> "sounds like you worked your heart out...wow..."
> listen..and acknowledge what she says.
> "how are you feeling now?"
>
> listening and acknowledging is the biggest...
> and anything that starts with "at least" should not be said. ("at
> least your baby is healthy...at least your healthy...at least you
> healed quickly...at least..")
>
>
> Stephanie Soderblom CLD CCCE CD(DONA) ICD


Perfect.

I had no anesthesia with my 3rd c-section. I personally don't find the fact
that I've had c-sections something people need to say "sorry" about, but the
fact that it didn't go well, it's nice when people DON'T say "at least
you're both okay".

Beyond "sorry it didn't go how you wanted" and then listening if she wants
to talk, I don't think anything else really needs to be said.

Sophie
#4 due July 7, 2004

[PattyMomVA]

"Erin" > wrote and I snipped:
> Now my friend has just given birth to her own perfect little girl, but her
> experience was extremely traumatic: posterior baby, back labor, a cervix
> that dilated but never moved forward enough, a baby that just wouldn't
turn,
> and finally, a C-section.
>
> My friend is having trouble processing what happened to her. She got
angry
> when a couple people made comments suggesting she should "forget" her bad
> birth experience, as if it were ungrateful for her mention the pain since
> her baby was ok! I'm not so clueless as to say something *that* idiotic,
> but honestly, I am at a bit of a loss at what to say. Right after the
birth
> I told her that I was sorry for her disappointment and hurt and knew that
> she'd gone through a TON of pain, and had done a good job with it. But
I'm
> wondering if there is anything else I could do/say? Advice from C-section
> survivors would be most appreciated.

Perhaps this article will be helpful to you and your friend:
http://www.plus-size-pregnancy.org/CSANDVBAC/shouldbegrateful.htm

It's great of you to be such a good friend,
-Patty, mom to Corinne (6y) and Nathan (4y)
and stepmom to Victoria (14y)

[Amy]

Not having had a c-section myself (and admittedly the thought gives me
shivers) it sounds like you said the right things. Society has a way of
minimising the pain of mothers and telling them to 'get over it'. There were
people who thought we should 'get over' our son's death and 'move on', so
I'm not surprised if people are telling her to make the best and count her
blessings.
C-sections are not as traumatic for everyone, but when you have the perfect
birth situation planned out, and it doesn't go to plan, that can be
enormously upsetting, and if she was very pro natural birth she may feel
she's failed somehow. If she can't talk it out with someone, it could
develop into post-natal depression.
We have a local support group for mothers with 'bad' birth experiences, that
recognises what they've been through and helps them deal with their trauma.
See if there is anything locally where you are, they may have pamphlets or
business cards that you could leave with her, even if she doesn't need their
help it'll let her know you care & one person's understanding can mean an
awful lot. You sound like a great friend :-)

"Erin" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Hi all,
>
> A dear friend and I had the wonderful experience of being pregnant at the
> same time. I was in the third trimester when she was in her first. My
> daughter's birth had a couple complications, but it was vaginal, and my
baby
> was healthy. So despite some high jinks along the way, I was happy and
> satisfied. Labor was very painful, but I didn't really think about the
pain
> afterwards, and it was easy to let go of the little disapointments that
had
> occurred because overall, I thought that everything went great.
>
> Now my friend has just given birth to her own perfect little girl, but her
> experience was extremely traumatic: posterior baby, back labor, a cervix
> that dilated but never moved forward enough, a baby that just wouldn't
turn,
> and finally, a C-section.
>
> My friend is having trouble processing what happened to her. She got
angry
> when a couple people made comments suggesting she should "forget" her bad
> birth experience, as if it were ungrateful for her mention the pain since
> her baby was ok! I'm not so clueless as to say something *that* idiotic,
> but honestly, I am at a bit of a loss at what to say. Right after the
birth
> I told her that I was sorry for her disappointment and hurt and knew that
> she'd gone through a TON of pain, and had done a good job with it. But
I'm
> wondering if there is anything else I could do/say? Advice from C-section
> survivors would be most appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance. -- Erin, mom to DD, seven months old.
>
>

[Ilse Witch]

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 18:20:58 +0000, Erin wrote:

> I'm wondering if there is anything else I could do/say? Advice from
> C-section survivors would be most appreciated.

I have no experience with c-section, but I've received similar responses
when I suffered m/c, which really hurt me. She is sadly disappointed in
what she expected to be a very positive experience, and from speaking to
mothers who have been through this, the grief over a bad birth experience
is not too dissimilar from any other grief to then. But it is hard to
describe what you are grieving for, and many people will not understand,
since the baby and mother are both fine.

You are doing the right thing in acknowledging her disappointment and
loss. Share how it makes you feel to see her go through this. Just tell
her that whenever she feels like she wants to talk about it, you will be
there for her. Be aware that this can take a long time to heal.

--
-- I
mommy to DS (July '02)
mommy to three tiny angels (28 Oct'03, 17 Feb'04 & 20 May'04)
guardian of DH (33)

[Vicky Bilaniuk]

Erin wrote:

> My friend is having trouble processing what happened to her. She got angry
> when a couple people made comments suggesting she should "forget" her bad
> birth experience, as if it were ungrateful for her mention the pain since
> her baby was ok! I'm not so clueless as to say something *that* idiotic,

Ugh! I'm getting this *now* and I haven't even given birth yet. I've
been experiencing a lot of pain since the start of pregnancy, and on a
daily basis. It's been nearly 7 months of torture (some days it really
is *pure torture*). Anyway, every time I tell someone about it, they
try to somehow make me feel better by telling me that I'll forget it all
later. I'm so sick of hearing that! I even hear it from my hubby, who
is going to have to be sat down soon for a talk. They think they're
helping, but they're not. OK, in her case it's a bit different because
they're saying that she "should" forget it. I bet it's still the same
cause, though: they think they're somehow making her feel better. Why
not just be blunt with them on her behalf? Also remind her that she
just doesn't have to listen to them (that's what I do myself - I don't
listen to them).

[Sophie]

"Vicky Bilaniuk" > wrote in message news:N65yc.44413
> Anyway, every time I tell someone about it, they
> try to somehow make me feel better by telling me that I'll forget it all
> later.

And you probably won't. I had sciatica with Charlotte, who will be 6 this
month. I still remember EXACTLY how painful that was. But I actually don't
remember just how painful my anesthesia-free c-section was - lol - go
figure.

[Vicky Bilaniuk]

Sophie wrote:

> "Vicky Bilaniuk" > wrote in message news:N65yc.44413
>
>> Anyway, every time I tell someone about it, they
>>try to somehow make me feel better by telling me that I'll forget it all
>>later.
>
>
> And you probably won't. I had sciatica with Charlotte, who will be 6 this
> month. I still remember EXACTLY how painful that was. But I actually don't
> remember just how painful my anesthesia-free c-section was - lol - go
> figure.
>
>

Yeah, I figure that what happens *during* labour is probably a bit
different... Well, all I can say is that if mine actually turns out to
be pleasant, I HOPE I remember that! ;-) I keep wondering if my labour
won't be all that bad - every bone in my hips moves around so freely
these days that when the time comes, I'll just open right up and the
baby will come shooting out (there's just that darn skin thing to worry
about).

Oh, and, um, "anesthesia-free c-section"??????

[Kelly Shorlin]

"Erin" > wrote in message t>...

> My friend is having trouble processing what happened to her. She got angry
> when a couple people made comments suggesting she should "forget" her bad
> birth experience, as if it were ungrateful for her mention the pain since
> her baby was ok! I'm not so clueless as to say something *that* idiotic,
> but honestly, I am at a bit of a loss at what to say. Right after the birth
> I told her that I was sorry for her disappointment and hurt and knew that
> she'd gone through a TON of pain, and had done a good job with it. But I'm
> wondering if there is anything else I could do/say? Advice from C-section
> survivors would be most appreciated.

Hi Erin,

I think what you say is not so important. it sounds like you're being
very very sensitive which goes a long way. Probably the best thing
you can do is just listen and hear what she has to say. She probably
doesn't have enough people who do that.

Kelly
Mom to Mary, Anna, and Kate

>
> Thanks in advance. -- Erin, mom to DD, seven months old.

[rcmcmul]

I normally just lurk here, but had to chime in. The thing that helps
me the most is simple acknowledgement. For example, "Your daughter's
beautiful. I heard/know you had to get a c-section. That sucks. How
are you doing?/Are you doing ok?/How are you dealing with it?" It
just helps so much when they let me know that it's ok for me to feel
grief over the loss of "traditional" labor and childbirth.

I was very pro-ncb before I had my daughter (05/07/04), and was
barely ok with a hospital birth. However, I ended up going to 42
weeks after a whole month of non-progressive false labor and a
non-reassuring NST, so we induced. DD couldn't handle the ctx, and
after doing everything she possibly could to get me through a vaginal
birth (I even got to push for 20 minutes), my doctor had to call for a
c-section.

Granted, I had a VERY positive C-section experience as far as
decision-making processes went, but I'm still in the grief process for
1)no "real" labor and 2)no vaginal birth.

-Robin
mom to Sarah (1mo)

[Sophie]

> Yeah, I figure that what happens *during* labour is probably a bit
> different... Well, all I can say is that if mine actually turns out to
> be pleasant, I HOPE I remember that! ;-) I keep wondering if my labour
> won't be all that bad - every bone in my hips moves around so freely
> these days that when the time comes, I'll just open right up and the
> baby will come shooting out (there's just that darn skin thing to worry
> about).

You're telling me. I feel ready to split in half, starting *there* - lol.
I wish my body just knew the baby's not coming out that way so I don't need
any of those changes to happen - lol.

> Oh, and, um, "anesthesia-free c-section"??????

Yeah the Navy hospital was running a special that day ;)

[Denise Anderson]

"Sophie" > wrote in message
...

>
> > Oh, and, um, "anesthesia-free c-section"??????
>
> Yeah the Navy hospital was running a special that day ;)
>

Oh, god.. I don't think I've ever come that close to spitting out a drink.
I can just picture a big sign on the way to the L&D wing too..

Denise

>

[Sophie]

"Denise Anderson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sophie" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >
> > > Oh, and, um, "anesthesia-free c-section"??????
> >
> > Yeah the Navy hospital was running a special that day ;)
> >
>
> Oh, god.. I don't think I've ever come that close to spitting out a drink.
> I can just picture a big sign on the way to the L&D wing too..
>
> Denise


Remember that when you go in :)

[Denise Anderson]

"Sophie" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Denise Anderson" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Sophie" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > >
> > > > Oh, and, um, "anesthesia-free c-section"??????
> > >
> > > Yeah the Navy hospital was running a special that day ;)
> > >
> >
> > Oh, god.. I don't think I've ever come that close to spitting out a
drink.
> > I can just picture a big sign on the way to the L&D wing too..
> >
> > Denise
>
>
> Remember that when you go in :)
>
>

Ugh, I lucked out, we live like 5miles too far to give birth at Bremerton.
I'd probably give birth at home before I gave birth at another Navy hospital
though. I'll be thinking of you, though :)

Denise

[Denise Anderson]

> wrote in message
...

>
> I had a horrible experience and Harrison birthing center in Silverdale...
My
> next will be a home birth.

I live on the other side, my last birth at this hospital was great.

Denise

[Sophie]

> Ugh, I lucked out, we live like 5miles too far to give birth at Bremerton.

By 5 miles - you lucky thing.


> I'd probably give birth at home before I gave birth at another Navy
hospital
> though.

Lol - it *is* tempting.

>I'll be thinking of you, though :)
>
> Denise

Lol - gee thanks :P

[Denise Anderson]

"Sophie" > wrote in message
...

>
> >I'll be thinking of you, though :)
> >
> > Denise
>
> Lol - gee thanks :P
>
>
>

Well you know, I meant in a positive way. Not like, "Haha, that sucker,
Sophie has to give birth at that Navy hospital... I hope they forget her
drugs again." :) Although with the mood I've been in lately, that could be
the case. Give me a couple days to get there.

Denise

[Sophie]

> Well you know, I meant in a positive way. Not like, "Haha, that sucker,
> Sophie has to give birth at that Navy hospital... I hope they forget her
> drugs again." :) Although with the mood I've been in lately, that could
be
> the case. Give me a couple days to get there.
>
> Denise


Lol! Oh I'm in that same mood, trust me.

[Denise Anderson]

"Sophie" > wrote in message
>
> Lol! Oh I'm in that same mood, trust me.
>

It must be a 35 week thing. I found myself picking a fight with DH when he
called last weekend, then I felt like crap. At least I don't have to deal
with the hot weather here.

Denise

>

[Jenrose]

Resending because this didn't come through on my server or google :(

"Erin" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Hi all,
> My friend is having trouble processing what happened to her. She got
angry
> when a couple people made comments suggesting she should "forget" her bad
> birth experience, as if it were ungrateful for her mention the pain since
> her baby was ok! I'm not so clueless as to say something *that* idiotic,
> but honestly, I am at a bit of a loss at what to say. Right after the
birth
> I told her that I was sorry for her disappointment and hurt and knew that
> she'd gone through a TON of pain, and had done a good job with it. But
I'm
> wondering if there is anything else I could do/say? Advice from C-section
> survivors would be most appreciated.
>

Not a c-section survivor, but whenever someone has birth trauma, there are a
couple of things that will be better to hear...

1. "It's okay to feel bad about what happened. It sounds like it was really
difficult, and it wasn't what you were hoping for."

2. "I know I haven't been where you're at right now, but I care and if you
want to talk, I'll listen."

3. "It's okay to take some time to grieve the loss of the birth you dreamed
about."

4. Don't say anything other than, "Oh honey, it really sucks." Then, if
you're that kind of friend, give her a hug. Because when you're in pain and
you've had a loss, sometimes you don't *want* someone to try to make it
better.

5. Wait a bit before offering advice about "next time"... if she asks, you
can point her to ICAN and other resources. Right now she needs to process
the birth itself and her grief.


Things to avoid: Don't say things like, "Well, at least your daughter is
okay." She's heard that a zillion times and will hear it a zillion more and
what that says is, "Your pain doesn't matter. You're being ungrateful."

The fact of the matter is that her pain *does* matter. Birth trauma is about
what the mother feels as much as it is about any specific part of the
outcome. It ****es *me* off when people say, "At least you had a natural
vaginal birth"... and it will probably **** her off just as much if people
say, "Well, at least your baby is alive."

I realized early on in my doula career that birth trauma was not about what
happened in a birth, but about how a mother's wishes were respected and her
options given.

The first birth I went to, things that happened in the birth, medically,
were almost identical to my birth. Yet the mother felt wonderful about the
experience while I felt rotten about mine. The biggest difference? Her
caregivers treated her with respect, asked for permission, gave her
information and did not argue with her. They had early cord cutting, mec,
suctioning, a tear...but the mom was *not* traumatized by it, whereas I was.
The primary difference? Her caregivers treated her with loving respect and
dignity. Mine treated me like a problem, condescended and didn't give
complete information.

Likewise, I know people who've had c-sections who've felt raped by the
experience and people who've had c-sections who felt empowered by them. It's
NOT about what happened in most cases, but about how the people around the
mother were during the process.

So whenever you're talking to someone, remember that it's really not about
"at least you have a healthy baby" or "a vaginal birth" or "you both
survived."

It just isn't. It's usually about feeling out of control or adversarial or
not having the kind of help you want.

Jenrose

[Sophie]

"Denise Anderson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sophie" > wrote in message
> >
> > Lol! Oh I'm in that same mood, trust me.
> >
>
> It must be a 35 week thing. I found myself picking a fight with DH when
he
> called last weekend, then I felt like crap. At least I don't have to deal
> with the hot weather here.
>
> Denise

Oh the heat, driving a stupid different car every week. I'm tired of
everything.