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D. C. Sessions
July 11th 03, 05:07 AM
In >, Brandy Kurtz wrote:

> Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
> busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
> soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
> me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
> summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
> hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???

Run his little feet off.

It won't help the ADHD (much) but it will be good for
him anyway and keep him out of trouble. All the outside
scheduled programs you can arrange, because they give
him variety and you a break.

Offhand, TV is the *worst* thing I can imagine.

D. C. "ADHD twins away at college this summer" Sessions

--
| Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
| it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
| for new products or new versions of existing products." |
end

D. C. Sessions
July 11th 03, 01:46 PM
In >, Elana Kehoe wrote:

> Brandy Kurtz > wrote:
>
>> Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
>> busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
>> soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
>> me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
>> summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
>> hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
>
> If he's off his meds, have you tried a diet change? I've heard good
> things about the Feingold diet, and that it makes a difference. Here's
> one article about it
>
> http://www.mothering.com/14-0-0/html/14-2-0/14-2-adhd101.shtml

Every time the Feingold diet has been studied, the benefits
disappear. Speculation is that the wonders of Feingold come
from a combination of (somewhat) healthier eating in general,
parental wishful thinking, and the increase in attention that
the kids get.

That said, anything that improves general health will help
with ADHD. Stuff like:

* Simple, healthy food at regular mealtimes.
* Lots of exercise
* Adequate *regular* sleep.
* Lots and lots of loving (too many ADHD kids get
more negative than positive attention!)
* A very, very, regular schedule.

--
| Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
| it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
| for new products or new versions of existing products." |
end

D. C. Sessions
July 11th 03, 05:25 PM
In >, Brandy Kurtz wrote:

> We are drained of ideas. It's really hard to find activities for him,
> that it is acceptable to be on the go. We did try martial arts, and it
> was a disaster. This wrestling season we are going to give that a go,
> and see how it works. I would like to find activities that involve
> alot of use with his hands. That seems to keep him the calmest.

I don't know where you are, but outdoors (as in, woods a long way
from the city) stuff seemed to really help mine when we could do
it. At 7+yo he should be able to carry a medium pack and in the
summer hike quite a ways in a day.

Another possibility is juggling. It's the kind of thing that, if
you can get him interested, will draw hyperfocus tremendously and
also do wonders for eye/hand.

Swimming might also work. Depending on where you are, climbing.

At 7+yo he should be able to take some crafts, too. Leather
can get expensive, but (don't laugh) knitting is possible.
He might also get into making chainmail, which has the advantage
or requiring a fair bit of strength.

MUSIC!!!!!

Then again, a second opinion about the med holiday might also be
a good idea. Mine were in summer school as much as possible to
minimize regression, both academically and socially.

--
| Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
| it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
| for new products or new versions of existing products." |
end

D. C. Sessions
July 11th 03, 05:25 PM
In >, Brandy Kurtz wrote:

> I don't have time to read it all now, but I will definatly look at
> that tonight! Thanks! I asked his doc about diet changes, and she just
> gave me a wierd look?

From the other responses you probably know why now.

--
| Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
| it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
| for new products or new versions of existing products." |
end

D. C. Sessions
July 12th 03, 01:12 AM
In >, Elana Kehoe wrote:
> Leah Adezio > wrote:

>> We did discover that certain additives did seem to worsen his symptoms, so
>> we kept them out of his diet as much as possible until he was well into
>> puberty (when the sensitivities faded)...but in no way did removing them
>> *eliminate* his symtoms.
>>
>> What works best for alleviating ADHD symptoms (and this is borne out by
>> recent extensive studies done by the NIH) is a *combination* of medication
>> *and* behavior modification techniques, both in and out of school.
>
> But it's what works best for *you*. The diet might work for someone
> else, and therefore it's always worth a try. That's all I'm saying.

Life is too short to try everything that anyone once thought
might help. The research into ADHD weeds out the bad bets
from the good bets. How much of your son's life do you want
to spend on the long shots?

Remember, Leah and I (and several others on ASAD) have been
there. We've /bled/ for our childrens' lost opportunities
and lifelong scars.

We don't want you -- and especially your son -- to suffer
from repeating our history.

--
| Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
| it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
| for new products or new versions of existing products." |
end

Brandy Kurtz
July 12th 03, 04:45 AM
Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???

Brandy

toto
July 12th 03, 05:45 AM
On 11 Jul 2003 20:45:42 -0700, (Brandy Kurtz)
wrote:

>Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
>busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
>soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
>me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
>summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
>hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
>
>Brandy

How old is your son, Brandy?

What kinds of things does he like to do?

I think that kids who are truly hyperactive need exercise more than
computer stuff, but I can probably find something that will interest
him if I have more information.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

Elana Kehoe
July 12th 03, 09:51 AM
Brandy Kurtz > wrote:

> Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
> busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
> soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
> me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
> summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
> hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???

If he's off his meds, have you tried a diet change? I've heard good
things about the Feingold diet, and that it makes a difference. Here's
one article about it

http://www.mothering.com/14-0-0/html/14-2-0/14-2-adhd101.shtml

E

Jeff Utz
July 12th 03, 02:50 PM
"Elana Kehoe" > wrote in message
...
> Brandy Kurtz > wrote:
>
> > Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
> > busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
> > soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
> > me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
> > summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
> > hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
>
> If he's off his meds, have you tried a diet change? I've heard good
> things about the Feingold diet, and that it makes a difference. Here's
> one article about it
>
> http://www.mothering.com/14-0-0/html/14-2-0/14-2-adhd101.shtml
>
> E

I doubt very much that the Feingold diet works. There is not much evidence
for it. Of course, there is no need to give kids food coloring either.

Jeff

Donna Metler
July 12th 03, 03:42 PM
"D. C. Sessions" > wrote in message
...
> In >, Elana Kehoe wrote:
>
> > Brandy Kurtz > wrote:
> >
> >> Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
> >> busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
> >> soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
> >> me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
> >> summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
> >> hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
> >
> > If he's off his meds, have you tried a diet change? I've heard good
> > things about the Feingold diet, and that it makes a difference. Here's
> > one article about it
> >
> > http://www.mothering.com/14-0-0/html/14-2-0/14-2-adhd101.shtml
>
> Every time the Feingold diet has been studied, the benefits
> disappear. Speculation is that the wonders of Feingold come
> from a combination of (somewhat) healthier eating in general,
> parental wishful thinking, and the increase in attention that
> the kids get.
>
> That said, anything that improves general health will help
> with ADHD. Stuff like:
>
> * Simple, healthy food at regular mealtimes.
> * Lots of exercise
> * Adequate *regular* sleep.
> * Lots and lots of loving (too many ADHD kids get
> more negative than positive attention!)
> * A very, very, regular schedule.
>
The advantage of feingold is that it requires the parents to monitor what
the child eats CLOSELY, which tends to demonstrate triggers. While Feingold
itself didn't work for my brother, one thing which came out while doing it
was that FD&C Yellow no 5 set him off, badly (because he was given a
medication containing it while on the diet). Controlling that additive made
a big difference.

The other thing which really helped him was running. Competitive sports did
not work at all well-too likely to cause meltdowns. But distance running
with a local track club (and later, with the school cross country and track
teams) gave him a peer group to encourage him (the track club was mostly
older, professional men-including his dentist and his psychologist), and a
chance to get recognition and burn off energy.

He graduated law school this year, in the top 10% of his class, and still
watches his diet closely and runs several miles a day. This is a student who
would have been kicked out of school in 6th grade had my parents NOT known
special education law as well as they did.

So there is hope out there.

> --
> | Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
> | it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
> | for new products or new versions of existing products." |
> end

Brandy Kurtz
July 12th 03, 04:14 PM
"D. C. Sessions" > wrote in message >...
> In >, Brandy Kurtz wrote:
>
> > Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
> > busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
> > soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
> > me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
> > summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
> > hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
>
> Run his little feet off.
>
> It won't help the ADHD (much) but it will be good for
> him anyway and keep him out of trouble. All the outside
> scheduled programs you can arrange, because they give
> him variety and you a break.
>
> Offhand, TV is the *worst* thing I can imagine.
>
> D. C. "ADHD twins away at college this summer" Sessions


Oh yes, I agree that tv is the worst thing for him! I do need a break,
terribly need a break! He does have lots of outside activities, but
they don't really help much, plus he is young so i need to stay to
supervise anyways. So no break!

Brandy

Brandy Kurtz
July 12th 03, 04:24 PM
(Elana Kehoe) wrote in message >...
> Brandy Kurtz > wrote:
>
> > Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
> > busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
> > soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
> > me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
> > summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
> > hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
>
> If he's off his meds, have you tried a diet change? I've heard good
> things about the Feingold diet, and that it makes a difference. Here's
> one article about it
>
> http://www.mothering.com/14-0-0/html/14-2-0/14-2-adhd101.shtml
>
> E

I don't have time to read it all now, but I will definatly look at
that tonight! Thanks! I asked his doc about diet changes, and she just
gave me a wierd look?

Brandy

Jeff Utz
July 12th 03, 05:18 PM
"Brandy Kurtz" > wrote in message
om...
> (Elana Kehoe) wrote in message
>...
> > Brandy Kurtz > wrote:
> >
> > > Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
> > > busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
> > > soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
> > > me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
> > > summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
> > > hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
> >
> > If he's off his meds, have you tried a diet change? I've heard good
> > things about the Feingold diet, and that it makes a difference. Here's
> > one article about it
> >
> > http://www.mothering.com/14-0-0/html/14-2-0/14-2-adhd101.shtml
> >
> > E
>
> I don't have time to read it all now, but I will definatly look at
> that tonight! Thanks! I asked his doc about diet changes, and she just
> gave me a wierd look?

Considering that medicine is evidence-based, and there is very little
evidence that diet affects ADHD, and very good evidence that Ritalin and
other meds do help, what would you expect her to do? There were studies done
to examine whether sugar affects kids whose parents said sugar affects the
kids. Guess what? It didn't, at least not when the kids did not know whether
or not they were eating sugar. I think the vast majority of the stuff saying
diet affects ADHD is garbage.

All the best,

Jeff


> Brandy

Elana Kehoe
July 12th 03, 05:42 PM
Jeff Utz > wrote:

> I think the vast majority of the stuff saying
> diet affects ADHD is garbage.

Hey, if it works for just one family, then it's good enough for me.

E

Leah Adezio
July 12th 03, 06:10 PM
"D. C. Sessions" > wrote in message
...
> In >, Brandy Kurtz wrote:
>
> > We are drained of ideas. It's really hard to find activities for him,
> > that it is acceptable to be on the go. We did try martial arts, and it
> > was a disaster. This wrestling season we are going to give that a go,
> > and see how it works. I would like to find activities that involve
> > alot of use with his hands. That seems to keep him the calmest.
>
> I don't know where you are, but outdoors (as in, woods a long way
> from the city) stuff seemed to really help mine when we could do
> it. At 7+yo he should be able to carry a medium pack and in the
> summer hike quite a ways in a day.
>
> Another possibility is juggling. It's the kind of thing that, if
> you can get him interested, will draw hyperfocus tremendously and
> also do wonders for eye/hand.
>
> Swimming might also work. Depending on where you are, climbing.
>
> At 7+yo he should be able to take some crafts, too. Leather
> can get expensive, but (don't laugh) knitting is possible.
> He might also get into making chainmail, which has the advantage
> or requiring a fair bit of strength.
>
> MUSIC!!!!!
>
> Then again, a second opinion about the med holiday might also be
> a good idea. Mine were in summer school as much as possible to
> minimize regression, both academically and socially.

Agreed. Given recent studies that adult height is, at most, affected by
approximately 1/4" between being on meds and being off meds (and this is the
most common excuse given for 'med vacations'), is it really worth the
disruption of what the child has gained?

IMHO, 'med vacations' are an outdated and passe notion. I'd get a second
opinion pronto.

We have never done 'med vacations'. My 17 year old ADHDer is 5'11" --- his
growth is not 'stunted' in any way, shape or form. :)

Leah
______
In Memory of David, 11/10/61 - 5/21/03
Beloved Husband, Father, Heart's Companion

>
> --
> | Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
> | it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
> | for new products or new versions of existing products." |
> end

Leah Adezio
July 12th 03, 06:10 PM
"Elana Kehoe" > wrote in message
...
> Brandy Kurtz > wrote:
>
> > Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
> > busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
> > soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
> > me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
> > summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
> > hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
>
> If he's off his meds, have you tried a diet change? I've heard good
> things about the Feingold diet, and that it makes a difference. Here's
> one article about it
>
> http://www.mothering.com/14-0-0/html/14-2-0/14-2-adhd101.shtml
>

The Feingold Diet was debunked as having no effect on ADHD symptoms *over 20
years ago*.

Leah
______
In Memory of David, 11/10/61 - 5/21/03
Beloved Husband, Father, Heart's Companion

> E

Leah Adezio
July 12th 03, 06:16 PM
"Brandy Kurtz" > wrote in message
om...
> "D. C. Sessions" > wrote in message
>...
> > In >, Brandy Kurtz
wrote:
> >
> > > Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
> > > busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
> > > soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
> > > me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
> > > summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
> > > hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
> >
> > Run his little feet off.
> >
> > It won't help the ADHD (much) but it will be good for
> > him anyway and keep him out of trouble. All the outside
> > scheduled programs you can arrange, because they give
> > him variety and you a break.
> >
> > Offhand, TV is the *worst* thing I can imagine.
> >
> > D. C. "ADHD twins away at college this summer" Sessions
>
>
> Oh yes, I agree that tv is the worst thing for him! I do need a break,
> terribly need a break! He does have lots of outside activities, but
> they don't really help much, plus he is young so i need to stay to
> supervise anyways. So no break!
>
> Brandy

Besides getting a second opinion on the 'med vacation' (which I strongly
recommend), do you have the option of perhaps hiring a responsible high
school student to hang out with him a few afternoons a week for a few hours
each day? Get some responsible, energetic kid who won't mind running around
with Eddie...take him to the park...or to the pool...go bike riding...things
like that -- essentially, someone to be a 'hired, older sibling'. :)

You'd have some break time that you need -- from experience, I *know* you
need it! <g> (FWIW, my way of taking 'break time' was to leave the boys
home with David for about an hour, even if it meant driving to the
convenience store or local diner, getting a magazine and coffee and just
sitting and reading -- just that hour away, once a week, did a lot to
recharge my batteries and restore some of my sanity).

Leah
______
In Memory of David, 11/10/61 - 5/21/03
Beloved Husband, Father, Heart's Companion

Leah Adezio
July 12th 03, 07:25 PM
"Elana Kehoe" > wrote in message
...
> Jeff Utz > wrote:
>
> > I think the vast majority of the stuff saying
> > diet affects ADHD is garbage.
>
> Hey, if it works for just one family, then it's good enough for me.

Do you actually have an ADHDer in your family? Have you done any recent
research?

By your logic, if arsenic relieves my headaches, although it's a known
killer, I should encourage others to use it for *their* headaches because
hey, if it works for just one person (i.e., me), it's good enough for
others.

Don't get me wrong...in the year before my son was considered old enough for
a medication trial, our pediatrician suggested trying the Feingold Diet --
and at the time (14 years ago), he said that research didn't bear it
working, but it might give us a clue into if there were any triggers that
made his ADHD worse...and if nothing else, it would make us feel like we
were doing something proactive.

We did discover that certain additives did seem to worsen his symptoms, so
we kept them out of his diet as much as possible until he was well into
puberty (when the sensitivities faded)...but in no way did removing them
*eliminate* his symtoms.

What works best for alleviating ADHD symptoms (and this is borne out by
recent extensive studies done by the NIH) is a *combination* of medication
*and* behavior modification techniques, both in and out of school.

Leah
______
In Memory of David, 11/10/61 - 5/21/03
Beloved Husband, Father, Heart's Companion

>
> E

dragonlady
July 12th 03, 07:25 PM
In article >,
"Sue" > wrote:

> Brandy Kurtz > wrote in message
> I would like to find activities that involve
> > alot of use with his hands. That seems to keep him the calmest.
> >
> > Brandy
>
> My friend who has two children with ADHD and also works extensively with
> these kids, says that there is a type of "squeeze ball" that is designed to
> work off the energy in their hands. She sometimes lets the kids who have the
> hardest time sitting still in class have these balls and she says it does
> work. I could ask the specific name for you if your interested. The other
> thought I had came from a Harry and Mudge book. The boy and his dog went
> through obedience school and on the last day, the dogs were going to
> "perform" their new tricks. The boy was nervous for his dog, so he liked to
> get those paddles with the ball on the other end with a rubber band to work
> off his energy. I know it sounds silly, but would that interest him? Good
> luck.
> --
> Sue
> mom to three girls
>
>

According the doctor I spoke to about my oldest child's (late diagnosed)
ADHD, the problem isn't excess energy, exactly. Rather, he said that a
portion of the brain is too INactive in ADHD people, and that being more
physically active helps "activate" that portion of the brain, which
helps the ADHD person concentrate better. The physical activity is
keeping them alert and attentive.

This seems consistent with my other (inexpert) reading on the subject.
According to this doctor, asking the ADHD person to SIT STILL and
concentrate is actually counter productive: rather, giving them
something to do physically helps them concentrate. (And if this doctor
is right, then it might explain the apparently counter-intuitive use of
stimulents to help the ADHD person settle down and concentrate: they
really DO need some portion of their brain MORE active.)

I know this seems true for me -- especially if I'm tired, or in a boring
meeting, I'm better able to pay attention to what is going on around me
if I doodle or if I knit. My oldest was taught a long time ago to take
"picture" notes, and it seems to help her concentrate.

Unfortunately, constant physical activity (drumming fingers, bouncing in
the seat, shifting around, whatever) seems to drive some OTHER people
nuts; even my adult version -- bringing knitting to meetings -- has
some folks convinced that I'm not taking the meeting seriously, instead
of understanding that it is a way to keep myself attentive.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Sue
July 12th 03, 09:43 PM
Brandy Kurtz > wrote in message
I would like to find activities that involve
> alot of use with his hands. That seems to keep him the calmest.
>
> Brandy

My friend who has two children with ADHD and also works extensively with
these kids, says that there is a type of "squeeze ball" that is designed to
work off the energy in their hands. She sometimes lets the kids who have the
hardest time sitting still in class have these balls and she says it does
work. I could ask the specific name for you if your interested. The other
thought I had came from a Harry and Mudge book. The boy and his dog went
through obedience school and on the last day, the dogs were going to
"perform" their new tricks. The boy was nervous for his dog, so he liked to
get those paddles with the ball on the other end with a rubber band to work
off his energy. I know it sounds silly, but would that interest him? Good
luck.
--
Sue
mom to three girls

toto
July 12th 03, 11:32 PM
On 12 Jul 2003 08:22:03 -0700, (Brandy Kurtz)
wrote:

>toto > wrote in message >...
>> On 11 Jul 2003 20:45:42 -0700, (Brandy Kurtz)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
>> >busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
>> >soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
>> >me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
>> >summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
>> >hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
>> >
>> >Brandy
>>
>> How old is your son, Brandy?
>>
>> What kinds of things does he like to do?
>>
>> I think that kids who are truly hyperactive need exercise more than
>> computer stuff, but I can probably find something that will interest
>> him if I have more information.
>
>
>Well he is 7 1/2. He loves to play sporty kindof games. He can read
>well, but doesn't like too. See the exercise doesn't help at all with
>his hyperactivity. It's very stressful for us. Even his therapist was
>shocked by how much energy he really has. We took him to see the
>therapist right after football practice, and he was still up, down,
>yak,yak,yak, up, down, bouncing off the walls!
>We are drained of ideas. It's really hard to find activities for him,
>that it is acceptable to be on the go. We did try martial arts, and it
>was a disaster. This wrestling season we are going to give that a go,
>and see how it works. I would like to find activities that involve
>alot of use with his hands. That seems to keep him the calmest.
>
>Brandy

Perhaps then you can take the opposite approach.. Have you
thought about trying a yoga or meditation type class that might
give him some feeling for how to calm himself down? There
is a book that I like called A Boy and A Bear the Children's
Relaxation Book by Lori Lite. It's available online at
http://www.TotalCampus.com

Since using his hands seems to help, perhaps modelling clay
would work?

Get magazines and let him cut out pictures and make
collages of them. He might enjoy making a scrapbook
of his favorite kinds of toys. Or of some sport he likes.
Maybe the local team if you have newspaper articles
and pictures of them playing?

What about setting up an easel and getting paints and letting
him create artwork. You can get dried tempera at any art store
and mix your own. An old adult shirt can be used as a smock.
Lots of different objects can be used to paint with if you don't
have brushes. A pine branch with the needles attached, a
bird feather, pieces of sponges tied to a stick for a handle
or just used in his hand, old makeup brushes are good too,
If you don't have or can't get an easel, a table works too, just
cover your kitchen table with a plastic tablecloth or newspaper
and get a large roll of newsprint for him to paint on. You can
use marbles or little cars to paint with making interesting
tracks. Or use water color and blow paint with straws.


If he likes dinosaurs, there are kits that allow you to build some,
the same is true of cars.. There are some that require less
dexterity and fine motor than others.

Get some craft sticks (like popsicle sticks) and build things
with them. Or use toothpicks and little marshmallows to make
various creations. You can also use recycled materials.

Younger kids like big boxes, why not an older one. Find a
refrigerator box or TV box or get some from the local
grocery store that are large. Have him decorate them with
paint or markers and make them into a car, a boat, a plane,
a rocket or whatever he fancies. Imaginary play in something
like this can go on for long periods with some kids.

If he likes Harry Potter, perhaps you can spend time making
Hogwart's castle or one of the towns out of blocks or out of
clay or playdoh or out of boxes.

Shoeboxes (usually you can get these free from shoestores
if you ask) can be used to make dioramas from pictures in
various books he likes. You can use found objects, grass,
stones, seashells, etc. Or get pipecleaners to make animals
and people. Or use bits of paper from old wrapping paper
or get the wallpaper or paint samplers from a store and use
those to decorate with.

Good Luck. I hope some of this works.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

Elana Kehoe
July 13th 03, 12:34 AM
Leah Adezio > wrote:

> "Elana Kehoe" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Brandy Kurtz > wrote:
> >
> > > Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
> > > busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
> > > soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
> > > me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
> > > summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
> > > hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
> >
> > If he's off his meds, have you tried a diet change? I've heard good
> > things about the Feingold diet, and that it makes a difference. Here's
> > one article about it
> >
> > http://www.mothering.com/14-0-0/html/14-2-0/14-2-adhd101.shtml
> >
>
> The Feingold Diet was debunked as having no effect on ADHD symptoms *over 20
> years ago*.

Okay, wait. I seem to not recall hearing anything about ADD/ADHD until
about 10 years ago. When was it discovered?

E

dragonlady
July 13th 03, 12:55 AM
In article >,
(Elana Kehoe) wrote:

> Leah Adezio > wrote:
>
> > "Elana Kehoe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Brandy Kurtz > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
> > > > busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
> > > > soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
> > > > me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
> > > > summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
> > > > hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
> > >
> > > If he's off his meds, have you tried a diet change? I've heard good
> > > things about the Feingold diet, and that it makes a difference. Here's
> > > one article about it
> > >
> > > http://www.mothering.com/14-0-0/html/14-2-0/14-2-adhd101.shtml
> > >
> >
> > The Feingold Diet was debunked as having no effect on ADHD symptoms *over 20
> > years ago*.
>
> Okay, wait. I seem to not recall hearing anything about ADD/ADHD until
> about 10 years ago. When was it discovered?
>
> E

Considerably longer ago than that; I can remember my Mom talking about
it -- at least, about hyperactive kids who were being given stimulants
-- when I was still in high school, and I graduated over 30 years ago!

Did a quick Google search; according to at least one site, amphetamines
were introduced to treat hyperactive children in 1937; ritalin was
introduced in 1956; DSM-II, in 1968, included "Hyperkinetic Reaction of
Childhood"; the ADD diagnosis (with or without hyperactivity) was added
to the DSM-III in 1980, and changed to Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity
Disorder in the DSM-IV in 1994.

Certainly we've been hearing more about it in the last 10 years, and the
number of children diagnosed with it has gone up -- but it's been on
some folks' radar for a very long time.

http://www.strattera.com/1_3_childhood_adhd/1_3_1_1_2_history.jsp
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

toto
July 13th 03, 03:14 AM
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:34:41 +0100, (Elana Kehoe)
wrote:

>Leah Adezio > wrote:
>
>> "Elana Kehoe" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Brandy Kurtz > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
>> > > busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
>> > > soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
>> > > me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
>> > > summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
>> > > hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
>> >
>> > If he's off his meds, have you tried a diet change? I've heard good
>> > things about the Feingold diet, and that it makes a difference. Here's
>> > one article about it
>> >
>> > http://www.mothering.com/14-0-0/html/14-2-0/14-2-adhd101.shtml
>> >
>>
>> The Feingold Diet was debunked as having no effect on ADHD symptoms *over 20
>> years ago*.
>
>Okay, wait. I seem to not recall hearing anything about ADD/ADHD until
>about 10 years ago. When was it discovered?
>
>E

My son was born in the early 70s. He had a friend in our neighborhood
who was diagnosed as ADHD and whose mom tried the Feingold Diet
at that time.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

RuggyKurtz
July 13th 03, 05:07 AM
>
>Besides getting a second opinion on the 'med vacation' (which I strongly
>recommend), do you have the option of perhaps hiring a responsible high
>school student to hang out with him a few afternoons a week for a few hours
>each day? Get some responsible, energetic kid who won't mind running around
>with Eddie...take him to the park...or to the pool...go bike riding...things
>like that -- essentially, someone to be a 'hired, older sibling'. :)
>
>You'd have some break time that you need -- from experience, I *know* you
>need it! <g> (FWIW, my way of taking 'break time' was to leave the boys
>home with David for about an hour, even if it meant driving to the
>convenience store or local diner, getting a magazine and coffee and just
>sitting and reading -- just that hour away, once a week, did a lot to
>recharge my batteries and restore some of my sanity).
>
>Leah

I think I will start taking some *mom* time on the weekends! Now that he's home
All The Time it is really getting to me...:)

Brandy

RuggyKurtz
July 13th 03, 05:09 AM
>Agreed. Given recent studies that adult height is, at most, affected by
>approximately 1/4" between being on meds and being off meds (and this is the
>most common excuse given for 'med vacations'), is it really worth the
>disruption of what the child has gained?
>
>IMHO, 'med vacations' are an outdated and passe notion. I'd get a second
>opinion pronto.
>
>We have never done 'med vacations'. My 17 year old ADHDer is 5'11" --- his
>growth is not 'stunted' in any way, shape or form. :)
>
>Leah


I don't know what the heck she was thinking! Need...more...meds! I am going to
call her on Monday!

Brandy

RuggyKurtz
July 13th 03, 05:11 AM
>
>Considering that medicine is evidence-based, and there is very little
>evidence that diet affects ADHD, and very good evidence that Ritalin and
>other meds do help, what would you expect her to do? There were studies done
>to examine whether sugar affects kids whose parents said sugar affects the
>kids. Guess what? It didn't, at least not when the kids did not know whether
>or not they were eating sugar. I think the vast majority of the stuff saying
>diet affects ADHD is garbage.
>
>All the best,
>
>Jeff
>

He is usually on concerta. Tried strattera, but that didn't work. Just grasping
at straws here.

Brandy

RuggyKurtz
July 13th 03, 05:14 AM
>Life is too short to try everything that anyone once thought
>might help. The research into ADHD weeds out the bad bets
>from the good bets. How much of your son's life do you want
>to spend on the long shots?
>
>Remember, Leah and I (and several others on ASAD) have been
>there. We've /bled/ for our childrens' lost opportunities
>and lifelong scars.
>
>We don't want you -- and especially your son -- to suffer
>from repeating our history.
>
Wow, I hadn't thought of it in that perspective. Gives me the goosebumps to
hear from people that actually understand what adhd means.

Brandy

RuggyKurtz
July 13th 03, 05:20 AM
>I homeschool my bipolar and ADHD nephew, so I can sympathize.
>Sometimes I think if I don't get him out of the house and out of my
>face, I'd throttle him out of sheer frustration.

Ohh see I can relate!

>
>Lots of exercise is good; it bleeds off a lot of that excess energy.
>Also, finding him a project that he's intensely interested in, like
>collecting bugs or something like that. Any summer programs that are
>available and affordable.

He did participate in vacation bible school last week, and he really liked it.
He collects Yu-Gi-Oh cards, did you see the prices for those?!?! I wish he'd
collect something cheap...:)

>
>So, why does his doctor want him off the meds? And what did his
>psychiatrist have to say about that? Does s/he concur with the
>pediatrician?
>
>Michelle
>Flutist
>
No, the hterapist doesn't get it either. The ped and therapist are affliated
with thesame hospital, so all records are together in the computer. The
therapist just looked at me and said, you poor poor dear. Yeah, so I am going
to call the ped on Monday to see what is going on here!

Brandy

Leah Adezio
July 13th 03, 07:58 AM
"RuggyKurtz" > wrote in message
...
> >Agreed. Given recent studies that adult height is, at most, affected by
> >approximately 1/4" between being on meds and being off meds (and this is
the
> >most common excuse given for 'med vacations'), is it really worth the
> >disruption of what the child has gained?
> >
> >IMHO, 'med vacations' are an outdated and passe notion. I'd get a second
> >opinion pronto.
> >
> >We have never done 'med vacations'. My 17 year old ADHDer is 5'11" ---
his
> >growth is not 'stunted' in any way, shape or form. :)
> >
> >Leah
>
>
> I don't know what the heck she was thinking!

Heh. Well, to be fair, what she suggested used to be conventional thought.

Need...more...meds! I am going to
> call her on Monday!

Definitely. Because meds and ADHD management isn't only a school issue --
it can impact on a child socially in the home as well as with how the child
can manage in a less structured setting outside of school -- like outside
playing with friends, or a music class, or karate lessons.....

Some kids don't need meds at all. Some do just for school. Some, like my
son, need them in a variety of settings. Each child is different.

Leah
______
In Memory of David, 11/10/61 - 5/21/03
Beloved Husband, Father, Heart's Companion
>
> Brandy

Leah Adezio
July 13th 03, 08:03 AM
"Elana Kehoe" > wrote in message
...
> Leah Adezio > wrote:
>
> > "Elana Kehoe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Jeff Utz > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think the vast majority of the stuff saying
> > > > diet affects ADHD is garbage.
> > >
> > > Hey, if it works for just one family, then it's good enough for me.
> >
> > Do you actually have an ADHDer in your family? Have you done any recent
> > research?
>
> Nope. Nope.
>
> > We did discover that certain additives did seem to worsen his symptoms,
so
> > we kept them out of his diet as much as possible until he was well into
> > puberty (when the sensitivities faded)...but in no way did removing them
> > *eliminate* his symtoms.
> >
> > What works best for alleviating ADHD symptoms (and this is borne out by
> > recent extensive studies done by the NIH) is a *combination* of
medication
> > *and* behavior modification techniques, both in and out of school.
>
> But it's what works best for *you*. The diet might work for someone
> else, and therefore it's always worth a try. That's all I'm saying.

Hey, arsenic works for *my* headaches......

But why 'try' something that's been proven over the past two decades to be
ineffective when there are proven methods of helping alleviate symptoms?

Why delay effective treatment when the result of doing so can harm a child
academically, socially and emotionally?

It's not 'what works best for *me*'. It's what *current research* says
works best for the treatment of ADHD symptoms.

Leah
______
In Memory of David, 11/10/61 - 5/21/03
Beloved Husband, Father, Heart's Companion
>
> E

llama mama
July 13th 03, 01:18 PM
toto > wrote in
:

> My son was born in the early 70s. He had a friend in our neighborhood
> who was diagnosed as ADHD and whose mom tried the Feingold Diet
> at that time.

i have a friend that is 41 & he was diagnosed as ADHD in the 2nd grade,
so that would be early 60s.
lee
--
It is paradoxical that many educators and parents still differentiate
between a time for learning and a time for play without seeing the vital
connection between them. -Leo Buscaglia, author (1924-1998)

Brandy Kurtz
July 13th 03, 02:30 PM
"D. C. Sessions" > wrote in message >...
> In >, Brandy Kurtz wrote:
>
> > We are drained of ideas. It's really hard to find activities for him,
> > that it is acceptable to be on the go. We did try martial arts, and it
> > was a disaster. This wrestling season we are going to give that a go,
> > and see how it works. I would like to find activities that involve
> > alot of use with his hands. That seems to keep him the calmest.
>
> I don't know where you are, but outdoors (as in, woods a long way
> from the city) stuff seemed to really help mine when we could do
> it. At 7+yo he should be able to carry a medium pack and in the
> summer hike quite a ways in a day.
>
> Another possibility is juggling. It's the kind of thing that, if
> you can get him interested, will draw hyperfocus tremendously and
> also do wonders for eye/hand.
>
> Swimming might also work. Depending on where you are, climbing.
>
> At 7+yo he should be able to take some crafts, too. Leather
> can get expensive, but (don't laugh) knitting is possible.
> He might also get into making chainmail, which has the advantage
> or requiring a fair bit of strength.
>
> MUSIC!!!!!
>
> Then again, a second opinion about the med holiday might also be
> a good idea. Mine were in summer school as much as possible to
> minimize regression, both academically and socially.

Thanks! We don't live too far from the woods, I think we will give
that a shot!
There is no summer school programs around, I have checked. I did try
sewing with him, but he just managed to prick himself about 100
times...:)

Brandy

Brandy Kurtz
July 13th 03, 02:30 PM
"D. C. Sessions" > wrote in message >...
> In >, Brandy Kurtz wrote:
>
> > We are drained of ideas. It's really hard to find activities for him,
> > that it is acceptable to be on the go. We did try martial arts, and it
> > was a disaster. This wrestling season we are going to give that a go,
> > and see how it works. I would like to find activities that involve
> > alot of use with his hands. That seems to keep him the calmest.
>
> I don't know where you are, but outdoors (as in, woods a long way
> from the city) stuff seemed to really help mine when we could do
> it. At 7+yo he should be able to carry a medium pack and in the
> summer hike quite a ways in a day.
>
> Another possibility is juggling. It's the kind of thing that, if
> you can get him interested, will draw hyperfocus tremendously and
> also do wonders for eye/hand.
>
> Swimming might also work. Depending on where you are, climbing.
>
> At 7+yo he should be able to take some crafts, too. Leather
> can get expensive, but (don't laugh) knitting is possible.
> He might also get into making chainmail, which has the advantage
> or requiring a fair bit of strength.
>
> MUSIC!!!!!
>
> Then again, a second opinion about the med holiday might also be
> a good idea. Mine were in summer school as much as possible to
> minimize regression, both academically and socially.

Thanks! We don't live too far from the woods, I think we will give
that a shot!
There is no summer school programs around, I have checked. I did try
sewing with him, but he just managed to prick himself about 100
times...:)

Brandy

Brandy Kurtz
July 13th 03, 02:30 PM
"Sue" > wrote in message >...
> Brandy Kurtz > wrote in message
> I would like to find activities that involve
> > alot of use with his hands. That seems to keep him the calmest.
> >
> > Brandy
>
> My friend who has two children with ADHD and also works extensively with
> these kids, says that there is a type of "squeeze ball" that is designed to
> work off the energy in their hands. She sometimes lets the kids who have the
> hardest time sitting still in class have these balls and she says it does
> work. I could ask the specific name for you if your interested. The other
> thought I had came from a Harry and Mudge book. The boy and his dog went
> through obedience school and on the last day, the dogs were going to
> "perform" their new tricks. The boy was nervous for his dog, so he liked to
> get those paddles with the ball on the other end with a rubber band to work
> off his energy. I know it sounds silly, but would that interest him? Good
> luck.

Hmmmm..I never thought of a paddle ball, that does sound like a good idea!

Brandy

dragonlady
July 13th 03, 02:50 PM
In article >,
"Anne" > wrote:

> >It's not 'what works best for *me*'. It's what *current research* says
> >works best for the treatment of ADHD symptoms.
>
> *current research* determines that ADHD doesn't exist. There has been no
> medical research to date that proves a physiological difference in a child
> who is diagnosed as being ADHD opposed to a normal kid. I am not saying that
> ADHD doesn't exist - just that there has been no scientific research to
> prove it. The main research that has been done is the effects of Ritalin and
> similar drugs to *control* the children suffering from ADHD and whilst these
> drugs have proven to control these children better, research also suggests
> that the effects are short term and to counter-balance this, the dosage is
> often raised. I won't even go into the potential side effects of these
> drugs...
>
> If ADHD does exist (rather than the children in question being individuals
> that don't fit into the current school system and our preferred home
> environments) then there must be a better way to deal with it than drugging
> our children daily. As one person suggested, cross country running or
> similar sports as an outlet for their energy might be a good way of dealing
> with it, likewise diet can have an effect on a child's energy - reducting
> the amount of stimulation in their environment has been suggested to help.
>
> When research concludes what the cause of ADHD is along with evidence of
> what is medically different in a ADHD diagnosed person, then I will start
> believing *experts* and will consider (often flawed and biased) *research*
> as to how to treat it.
>
>

Can't give you a citation, but at least one doctor I've spoken to showed
me brain scans, and said there is a distinct difference between the ADD
brain and the so-called "normal" brain.

And you do NOT have to know the cause of something to be able to treat
it appropriately!


meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

just me
July 13th 03, 03:10 PM
"dragonlady" > wrote in message
...
> Can't give you a citation, but at least one doctor I've spoken to showed
> me brain scans, and said there is a distinct difference between the ADD
> brain and the so-called "normal" brain.
>
> And you do NOT have to know the cause of something to be able to treat
> it appropriately!
>


Yes, Dr. Amen of the Amen Clinic has pioneered use of those brain scans as
well as some other diagnostic tools to diagnose ADD/H. Brain scans have
also been used to demonstrate a clear difference in other types of brains
including schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression and [take a deep
breath ladies] PMS. I've seen a number of these and read stuff [sorry, I'm
not at work where my stuff is, so no cites, but scan for Dr. Amen in Google]
and find it absolutely fascinating. There is reportedly very little margin
of error in using brain scans to assist in diagnosing these and other
conditions.

-Aula


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03

toto
July 13th 03, 03:43 PM
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:29:03 +0100, "Anne" > wrote:

>>It's not 'what works best for *me*'. It's what *current research* says
>>works best for the treatment of ADHD symptoms.
>
>*current research* determines that ADHD doesn't exist.

This is incorrect
http://www.newideas.net/attention_deficit/neurology.htm

The most recent models describing what is happening in the brains of
people with Attention Deficit Disorder - ADD ADHD - suggest that
several areas of the brain may be affected by the disorder.

They include:

* the frontal lobes,
* the inhibitory mechanisms of the cortex,
* the limbic system, and
* the reticular activating system.

Each of these areas of the brain is associated with various functions.

The frontal lobes help us to pay attention to tasks, focus
concentration, make good decisions, plan ahead, learn and remember
what we have learned, and behave appropriately for a given situation.

The inhibitory mechanisms of the cortex keep us from being
hyperactive, from saying things out of turn, and from getting mad at
inappropriate times, for examples. They help us to "inhibit" our
behaviors.

It has been said that 70% of the brain is there to inhibit the other
30% of the brain.

When the inhibitory mechanisms of the brain aren't working as hard as
they ought to, then we can see results of what are sometimes called
"dis-inhibition disorders" such as impulsive behaviors, quick temper,
poor decision making, hyperactivity, and so on.

The limbic system is the base of our emotions and our highly vigilant
look-out tower. If over-activated, a person might have wide mood
swings, or quick temper outbursts. He might also be "over-aroused,"
quick to startle, touching everything around him, hyper-vigilant. A
normally functioning limbic system would provide for normal emotional
changes, normal levels of energy, normal sleep routines, and normal
levels of coping with stress. A dysfunctional limbic system results in
problems with those areas.

The Attention Deficit Disorder might affect one, two, or all three of
these areas, resulting in several different "styles" or "profiles" of
children (and adults) with Attention Deficit Disorder.

MRI pictures showing the differences are on the website




--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

toto
July 13th 03, 03:45 PM
Repost for Brandy. I think this may have gotten lost in the
arguments about whether or not ADHD exists since you
have not indicated that you saw it.

On 11 Jul 2003 20:45:42 -0700, (Brandy Kurtz)
wrote:

>Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
>busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
>soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
>me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
>summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
>hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
>
>Brandy

Perhaps then you can take the opposite approach.. Have you
thought about trying a yoga or meditation type class that might
give him some feeling for how to calm himself down? There
is a book that I like called A Boy and A Bear the Children's
Relaxation Book by Lori Lite. It's available online at
http://www.TotalCampus.com

Since using his hands seems to help, perhaps modelling clay
would work?

Get magazines and let him cut out pictures and make
collages of them. He might enjoy making a scrapbook
of his favorite kinds of toys. Or of some sport he likes.
Maybe the local team if you have newspaper articles
and pictures of them playing?

What about setting up an easel and getting paints and letting
him create artwork. You can get dried tempera at any art store
and mix your own. An old adult shirt can be used as a smock.
Lots of different objects can be used to paint with if you don't
have brushes. A pine branch with the needles attached, a
bird feather, pieces of sponges tied to a stick for a handle
or just used in his hand, old makeup brushes are good too,
If you don't have or can't get an easel, a table works too, just
cover your kitchen table with a plastic tablecloth or newspaper
and get a large roll of newsprint for him to paint on. You can
use marbles or little cars to paint with making interesting
tracks. Or use water color and blow paint with straws.


If he likes dinosaurs, there are kits that allow you to build some,
the same is true of cars.. There are some that require less
dexterity and fine motor than others.

Get some craft sticks (like popsicle sticks) and build things
with them. Or use toothpicks and little marshmallows to make
various creations. You can also use recycled materials.

Younger kids like big boxes, why not an older one. Find a
refrigerator box or TV box or get some from the local
grocery store that are large. Have him decorate them with
paint or markers and make them into a car, a boat, a plane,
a rocket or whatever he fancies. Imaginary play in something
like this can go on for long periods with some kids.

If he likes Harry Potter, perhaps you can spend time making
Hogwart's castle or one of the towns out of blocks or out of
clay or playdoh or out of boxes.

Shoeboxes (usually you can get these free from shoestores
if you ask) can be used to make dioramas from pictures in
various books he likes. You can use found objects, grass,
stones, seashells, etc. Or get pipecleaners to make animals
and people. Or use bits of paper from old wrapping paper
or get the wallpaper or paint samplers from a store and use
those to decorate with.

Good Luck. I hope some of this works.



--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

RuggyKurtz
July 13th 03, 05:52 PM
>I hate to suggest this ( maybe he could practice outside??) but drumming
>really works well for my ADHD kids. I've had wonderful results with this for
>these students at school. Remo makes really good floor toms and tubanos,
>which are hand drums (played with the open hand-seems to work better for
>letting energy and aggression out than stick drums). Maybe there's a drum
>circle group near you?
>
>
>> Brandy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
DH suggested drumming too...Oh my nerves!

Brandy

RuggyKurtz
July 13th 03, 05:54 PM
>Repost for Brandy. I think this may have gotten lost in the
>arguments about whether or not ADHD exists since you
>have not indicated that you saw it.
>
>On 11 Jul 2003 20:45:42 -0700, (Brandy Kurtz)
>wrote:
>
>>Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
>>busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
>>soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
>>me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
>>summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
>>hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
>>
>>Brandy
>
>Perhaps then you can take the opposite approach.. Have you
>thought about trying a yoga or meditation type class that might
>give him some feeling for how to calm himself down? There
>is a book that I like called A Boy and A Bear the Children's
>Relaxation Book by Lori Lite. It's available online at
>http://www.TotalCampus.com
>
>Since using his hands seems to help, perhaps modelling clay
>would work?
>
>Get magazines and let him cut out pictures and make
>collages of them. He might enjoy making a scrapbook
>of his favorite kinds of toys. Or of some sport he likes.
>Maybe the local team if you have newspaper articles
>and pictures of them playing?
>
>What about setting up an easel and getting paints and letting
>him create artwork. You can get dried tempera at any art store
>and mix your own. An old adult shirt can be used as a smock.
>Lots of different objects can be used to paint with if you don't
>have brushes. A pine branch with the needles attached, a
>bird feather, pieces of sponges tied to a stick for a handle
>or just used in his hand, old makeup brushes are good too,
>If you don't have or can't get an easel, a table works too, just
>cover your kitchen table with a plastic tablecloth or newspaper
>and get a large roll of newsprint for him to paint on. You can
>use marbles or little cars to paint with making interesting
>tracks. Or use water color and blow paint with straws.
>
>
>If he likes dinosaurs, there are kits that allow you to build some,
>the same is true of cars.. There are some that require less
>dexterity and fine motor than others.
>
>Get some craft sticks (like popsicle sticks) and build things
>with them. Or use toothpicks and little marshmallows to make
>various creations. You can also use recycled materials.
>
>Younger kids like big boxes, why not an older one. Find a
>refrigerator box or TV box or get some from the local
>grocery store that are large. Have him decorate them with
>paint or markers and make them into a car, a boat, a plane,
>a rocket or whatever he fancies. Imaginary play in something
>like this can go on for long periods with some kids.
>
>If he likes Harry Potter, perhaps you can spend time making
>Hogwart's castle or one of the towns out of blocks or out of
>clay or playdoh or out of boxes.
>
>Shoeboxes (usually you can get these free from shoestores
>if you ask) can be used to make dioramas from pictures in
>various books he likes. You can use found objects, grass,
>stones, seashells, etc. Or get pipecleaners to make animals
>and people. Or use bits of paper from old wrapping paper
>or get the wallpaper or paint samplers from a store and use
>those to decorate with.
>
>Good Luck. I hope some of this works.
>
>
>
>--
>Dorothy
>
Those are all super ideas! There are no yoga classes around here, but all the
other suggestions seem like things he would like to do.

Brandy

RuggyKurtz
July 13th 03, 05:57 PM
>
>Sustained release concerta? If not, you might want to ask your doctor about
>it, too. We've been pretty pleased with sustained release Adderall over the
>past few years, though we are also considering a Strattera trial this
>summer. Besides having a longer effect in the bloodstream, it seems to have
>a mood leveling benefit that we think would be beneficial for our son. His
>doctor thinks it's worth exploring before school starts and our son is also
>willing to give it a go.
>
>Leah


As in heonly takes it once a day? Yep,yep, yep! It works wonderfully! The only
thing that has bother us and the doc is that he seems to lose weight on it. So
we were just beefing up his mealtime. The concerta works SO good for him, I
really hate to try anything else again.

Brandy

RuggyKurtz
July 13th 03, 06:01 PM
>However, there are also those of us who have found that eliminating some of
>the food additives makes a major difference in how well medication and
>behavior management works. For my brother, that is certainly the case.
>
>I tend to believe that the first thing to try with any major behavior
>problem is to take the diet back to basics, so that you at least know it
>isn't contributing to the problem-then move from there. It doesn't solve it,
>but it certainly can help.
>
>
BTDT! He's been battleing adhd for *years* and the first thing we tried was an
elimination diet, then taking away other meds (for other conditions), and
nothing made a difference. He has just recently been put on meds for adhd, like
february of this year. So we've been around the block and back, and the
concerta is the way to go for us!

Brandy

Denise
July 13th 03, 06:10 PM
"Elana Kehoe" > wrote in message
...
> Leah Adezio > wrote:
>
> > "Elana Kehoe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Brandy Kurtz > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd
son
> > > > busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
> > > > soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is
driving
> > > > me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for
the
> > > > summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht
the
> > > > hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
> > >
> > > If he's off his meds, have you tried a diet change? I've heard good
> > > things about the Feingold diet, and that it makes a difference.
Here's
> > > one article about it
> > >
> > > http://www.mothering.com/14-0-0/html/14-2-0/14-2-adhd101.shtml
> > >
> >
> > The Feingold Diet was debunked as having no effect on ADHD symptoms
*over 20
> > years ago*.
>
> Okay, wait. I seem to not recall hearing anything about ADD/ADHD until
> about 10 years ago. When was it discovered?
>
> E

I'm 24 and I was diagnosed with ADD when I was about 7... ADHD when I was
about 13

Michelle J. Haines
July 13th 03, 06:19 PM
In article >,
says...
> >I homeschool my bipolar and ADHD nephew, so I can sympathize.
> >Sometimes I think if I don't get him out of the house and out of my
> >face, I'd throttle him out of sheer frustration.
>
> Ohh see I can relate!

He's busy having a crying fit right now, because he was told if he
didn't get his morning chores done before my husband was ready to
leave the house, he wasn't going with him. He didn't get them done.
So he didn't go. Of course, we're horribly mean and unfair about
this, even though he's up to almost two and a half hours of time to
get it done, when it should have taken him 40 minutes, tops. Whee!

> He did participate in vacation bible school last week, and he really liked it.
> He collects Yu-Gi-Oh cards, did you see the prices for those?!?! I wish he'd
> collect something cheap...:)

He was into all that Digimon, Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh garbage when he moved
here, but by and large we don't let the kids watch those shows, and
we certainly aren't wasting any money on the cards, so any he gets
come from his mother or he has to buy them himself.

> No, the hterapist doesn't get it either. The ped and therapist are affliated
> with thesame hospital, so all records are together in the computer. The
> therapist just looked at me and said, you poor poor dear. Yeah, so I am going
> to call the ped on Monday to see what is going on here!

Yeah, psychotropic meds aren't just supposed to be to keep the
teachers happy.

Michelle
Flutist

--
In my heart. By my side.
Never apart. AP with Pride!
Katrina Marie (10/19/96)
Xander Ryan (09/22/98 - 02/23/99)
Gareth Xander (07/17/00)
Zachary Mitchell (01/12/94, began fostering 09/05/01)
Theona Alexis (06/03/03)

Leah Adezio
July 13th 03, 07:04 PM
"RuggyKurtz" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >Sustained release concerta? If not, you might want to ask your doctor
about
> >it, too. We've been pretty pleased with sustained release Adderall over
the
> >past few years, though we are also considering a Strattera trial this
> >summer. Besides having a longer effect in the bloodstream, it seems to
have
> >a mood leveling benefit that we think would be beneficial for our son.
His
> >doctor thinks it's worth exploring before school starts and our son is
also
> >willing to give it a go.
> >
> >Leah
>
>
> As in heonly takes it once a day? Yep,yep, yep! It works wonderfully! The
only
> thing that has bother us and the doc is that he seems to lose weight on
it. So
> we were just beefing up his mealtime. The concerta works SO good for him,
I
> really hate to try anything else again.

One simple thing that worked for our son regarding appetite was to feed him
a good breakfast *before* giving him his meds. He was always hungry and
willing to eat a substantial meal at that time. :)

The other thing that helped was just to make sure that simple, nutritious
snackables were available in the fridge all day. OS would 'graze' his way
through the day...not necessarily eat 3 big meals, but as long as he had
nutritious snacks (I would keep cut up veggies, yogurt, cheese sticks, frest
fruit, etc.) throughout the day, I was pretty confident that he was getting
a decent day's worth of nutrition. I also had to, for a time, cut out the
expectation that he *would* eat a 'full dinner', though he would eat small
portions and of course, sit with us at the dinner table and chat.

This did get better as he got older, for what that's worth. :)

Leah
______
In Memory of David, 11/10/61 - 5/21/03
Beloved Husband, Father, Heart's Companion

>
> Brandy

Leah Adezio
July 13th 03, 07:09 PM
"dragonlady" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Anne" > wrote:
>
> > >It's not 'what works best for *me*'. It's what *current research* says
> > >works best for the treatment of ADHD symptoms.
> >
> > *current research* determines that ADHD doesn't exist. There has been no
> > medical research to date that proves a physiological difference in a
child
> > who is diagnosed as being ADHD opposed to a normal kid. I am not saying
that
> > ADHD doesn't exist - just that there has been no scientific research to
> > prove it. The main research that has been done is the effects of Ritalin
and
> > similar drugs to *control* the children suffering from ADHD and whilst
these
> > drugs have proven to control these children better, research also
suggests
> > that the effects are short term and to counter-balance this, the dosage
is
> > often raised. I won't even go into the potential side effects of these
> > drugs...
> >
> > If ADHD does exist (rather than the children in question being
individuals
> > that don't fit into the current school system and our preferred home
> > environments) then there must be a better way to deal with it than
drugging
> > our children daily. As one person suggested, cross country running or
> > similar sports as an outlet for their energy might be a good way of
dealing
> > with it, likewise diet can have an effect on a child's energy -
reducting
> > the amount of stimulation in their environment has been suggested to
help.
> >
> > When research concludes what the cause of ADHD is along with evidence of
> > what is medically different in a ADHD diagnosed person, then I will
start
> > believing *experts* and will consider (often flawed and biased)
*research*
> > as to how to treat it.
> >
> >
>
> Can't give you a citation, but at least one doctor I've spoken to showed
> me brain scans, and said there is a distinct difference between the ADD
> brain and the so-called "normal" brain.

Several ongoing studies of PET scans are showing definite differences
between the brains of ADHDer and non-ADHDers. As with many things, the
'proof' will be more revealing as technology advances to *see* it.
>
> And you do NOT have to know the cause of something to be able to treat
> it appropriately!

Exactly. There are many ailments, both physical and mental, whose "causes"
are not yet "proven" which have had treatment methodolgies in place for a
long time.

Even the ancients knew certain herbs and substances relieved symptoms of
pain without knowing the "cause" of the pain.

This is a straw man argument.

Leah
______
In Memory of David, 11/10/61 - 5/21/03
Beloved Husband, Father, Heart's Companion

>
>
> meh
> --
> Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
>

Leah Adezio
July 13th 03, 07:16 PM
"Michelle J. Haines" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
> > >I homeschool my bipolar and ADHD nephew, so I can sympathize.
> > >Sometimes I think if I don't get him out of the house and out of my
> > >face, I'd throttle him out of sheer frustration.
> >
> > Ohh see I can relate!
>
> He's busy having a crying fit right now, because he was told if he
> didn't get his morning chores done before my husband was ready to
> leave the house, he wasn't going with him. He didn't get them done.
> So he didn't go. Of course, we're horribly mean and unfair about
> this, even though he's up to almost two and a half hours of time to
> get it done, when it should have taken him 40 minutes, tops. Whee!
>
> > He did participate in vacation bible school last week, and he really
liked it.
> > He collects Yu-Gi-Oh cards, did you see the prices for those?!?! I wish
he'd
> > collect something cheap...:)
>
> He was into all that Digimon, Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh garbage when he moved
> here, but by and large we don't let the kids watch those shows, and
> we certainly aren't wasting any money on the cards, so any he gets
> come from his mother or he has to buy them himself.

Just curious, but why the objection?

Both my sons are into various card games of this type, and although they
don't watch the programming on which they're based much anymore, they do
enjoy playing the games -- which for our ADHDer, gives him the opportunity
to socialize with other kids (and he enjoys cateloging the cards and
creating game stragegies for them).

When Pokemon was first *huge*, my younger son was having trouble reading,
yet he really wanted to play the card game. The cards are very text-heavy.
As a result of his desire to play the card game well, he really started to
work on his reading skills -- his reading level went up something like two
grade's worth that year. (And now, because he's a proficient reader, he
enjoys reading for pleasure, something he didn't enjoy before that).

I do let my kids use their allowance for card game purchases....perhaps, to
encourage cooperation in your house -- if these games are of such interest
to him -- you might consider a 'points system' -- where in exchange for
certain chores, or working on specific behaviors, etc., he can earn points
towards the purchase of the cards.

He's more inclined to cooperate if he has a vested interest in the 'reward'.
:)

>
> > No, the hterapist doesn't get it either. The ped and therapist are
affliated
> > with thesame hospital, so all records are together in the computer. The
> > therapist just looked at me and said, you poor poor dear. Yeah, so I am
going
> > to call the ped on Monday to see what is going on here!
>
> Yeah, psychotropic meds aren't just supposed to be to keep the
> teachers happy.

Amen to that!

Leah
______
In Memory of David, 11/10/61 - 5/21/03
Beloved Husband, Father, Heart's Companion

>
> Michelle
> Flutist
>
> --
> In my heart. By my side.
> Never apart. AP with Pride!
> Katrina Marie (10/19/96)
> Xander Ryan (09/22/98 - 02/23/99)
> Gareth Xander (07/17/00)
> Zachary Mitchell (01/12/94, began fostering 09/05/01)
> Theona Alexis (06/03/03)

Donna Metler
July 14th 03, 12:04 AM
"RuggyKurtz" > wrote in message
...
> >However, there are also those of us who have found that eliminating some
of
> >the food additives makes a major difference in how well medication and
> >behavior management works. For my brother, that is certainly the case.
> >
> >I tend to believe that the first thing to try with any major behavior
> >problem is to take the diet back to basics, so that you at least know it
> >isn't contributing to the problem-then move from there. It doesn't solve
it,
> >but it certainly can help.
> >
> >
> BTDT! He's been battleing adhd for *years* and the first thing we tried
was an
> elimination diet, then taking away other meds (for other conditions), and
> nothing made a difference. He has just recently been put on meds for adhd,
like
> february of this year. So we've been around the block and back, and the
> concerta is the way to go for us!

Exactly-I never said that medication wasn't helpful, or that diet removes
the need for it. Rather, diet can be helpful, and is something which can be
tried even when the medical profession isn't supportive on medication, which
is apparently the current situation.
>
> Brandy

just me
July 14th 03, 02:41 AM
"Leah Adezio" > wrote in message
...
> Leah
> ______
> In Memory of David, 11/10/61 - 5/21/03
> Beloved Husband, Father, Heart's Companion
>


Leah, Your sig line is beautiful and poignant.




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.497 / Virus Database: 296 - Release Date: 7/4/03

H Schinske
July 14th 03, 07:38 AM
>I asked his doc about diet changes, and she just
>> gave me a wierd look?
>
>Considering that medicine is evidence-based, and there is very little
>evidence that diet affects ADHD, and very good evidence that Ritalin and
>other meds do help, what would you expect her to do?

Educate the parent, rather than giving her "weird looks." Any doctor with
enough expertise to diagnose ADHD accurately ought to know about the Feingold
diet and be able to give a measured, reasoned, polite statement of their
opinion of it. It's not at all helpful to just act as though you'd never heard
of it.

--Helen

Michelle J. Haines
July 14th 03, 07:32 PM
In article >, says...
>
> Just curious, but why the objection?

Because Zachary does actually act more violent when he watches
violent cartoons -- at least, he does a lot more of those pseudo-
karate moves, and he doesn't have the attention span or impulse
control to not hurt the other children in the house while he does it.

Also, he easily gets obsessed with such things, and computer games,
too.

And, he doesn't understand the rules, so whenever he DOES have cards,
he loses all the good ones immediately because the other kids see him
as a sucker.

> I do let my kids use their allowance for card game purchases....perhaps, to
> encourage cooperation in your house -- if these games are of such interest
> to him -- you might consider a 'points system' -- where in exchange for
> certain chores, or working on specific behaviors, etc., he can earn points
> towards the purchase of the cards.
>
> He's more inclined to cooperate if he has a vested interest in the 'reward'.
> :)

We've tried points systems of reward/punishment, but they don't work
very well with Zachary, because he quickly gets into the legalism of,
"Well, I don't care if I lose points, and I don't feel like feeding
the dogs, so I'm not going to do it."

He has Oppositional Defiance Disorder, too.

Michelle
Flutist

--
In my heart. By my side.
Never apart. AP with Pride!
Katrina Marie (10/19/96)
Xander Ryan (09/22/98 - 02/23/99)
Gareth Xander (07/17/00)
Zachary Mitchell (01/12/94, began fostering 09/05/01)
Theona Alexis (06/03/03)

chiam margalit
July 14th 03, 07:58 PM
(Elana Kehoe) wrote in message >...
> Leah Adezio > wrote:
>
> > "Elana Kehoe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Jeff Utz > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think the vast majority of the stuff saying
> > > > diet affects ADHD is garbage.
> > >
> > > Hey, if it works for just one family, then it's good enough for me.
> >
> > Do you actually have an ADHDer in your family? Have you done any recent
> > research?
>
> Nope. Nope.
>
> > We did discover that certain additives did seem to worsen his symptoms, so
> > we kept them out of his diet as much as possible until he was well into
> > puberty (when the sensitivities faded)...but in no way did removing them
> > *eliminate* his symtoms.
> >
> > What works best for alleviating ADHD symptoms (and this is borne out by
> > recent extensive studies done by the NIH) is a *combination* of medication
> > *and* behavior modification techniques, both in and out of school.
>
> But it's what works best for *you*. The diet might work for someone
> else, and therefore it's always worth a try. That's all I'm saying.

The problem with what you're saying is, the diet doesn't work for ANY
ADHD child. It's been completely disproven time and time again. And
while people who do not have ADHD children really don't understand the
enormous stress this child can cause in a family, adding a restrictive
diet to the mix is often detrimental to the entire family. Since the
diet doesn't work, and families with ADHD kids pretty much know that
changes in diet are essentially useless (unless a child has an allergy
or insensitivity), then promoting it as something that might 'cure' a
problem when there really is no cure is shoddy.

You think it's worth a try. Fine, when your ADHD kids need help, you
give them a restrictive diet and see if it works for you. But do not
expect families who live with explosive, inflexible, difficult
hyperactive children to jump at the chance to make their kid even more
miserable with food changes they don't want or that don't work. OK?

Marjorie
>
> E

chiam margalit
July 14th 03, 08:02 PM
(RuggyKurtz) wrote in message >...
> >
> >Sustained release concerta? If not, you might want to ask your doctor about
> >it, too. We've been pretty pleased with sustained release Adderall over the
> >past few years, though we are also considering a Strattera trial this
> >summer. Besides having a longer effect in the bloodstream, it seems to have
> >a mood leveling benefit that we think would be beneficial for our son. His
> >doctor thinks it's worth exploring before school starts and our son is also
> >willing to give it a go.
> >
> >Leah
>
>
> As in heonly takes it once a day? Yep,yep, yep! It works wonderfully! The only
> thing that has bother us and the doc is that he seems to lose weight on it. So
> we were just beefing up his mealtime. The concerta works SO good for him, I
> really hate to try anything else again.

Concerta is considered a first line defense, whereas Strattera is
considered a second line defense. Our doctors have both been very
reluctant to even consider Strattera because for my kids Concerta and
timed release Adderall have worked well for both kids (one is on
Concerta, the other on Adderall). If concerta is working well, stick
with it. As far as the weight is concerned, Leah is correct that in
time the growth will catch up and self correct.

FWIW, with my very hyper son, we stagger the concerta dosage he takes,
so that he's ravenous at dinnertime and for hours afterwards. He
intakes most of his calories at night, which is good for him because
he's SOOO skinny. Staggering has helped enormously with both his
eating and his behaviour. You might consider this as your son gets
older.

Marjorie
>
> Brandy

Leah Adezio
July 14th 03, 08:41 PM
"Michelle J. Haines" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, says...
> >
> > Just curious, but why the objection?
>
> Because Zachary does actually act more violent when he watches
> violent cartoons -- at least, he does a lot more of those pseudo-
> karate moves, and he doesn't have the attention span or impulse
> control to not hurt the other children in the house while he does it.

Ah, fair enough. BTDT. :) I forget -- did you mention his age? I ask
because my ADHDer was very much that way, but as he hit puberty and got
older, those behaviors diminished. (If that provides a little ray of hope
or anything <g>). When he was younger, it was Power Rangers that caused
difficulties in that area.

>
> Also, he easily gets obsessed with such things, and computer games,
> too.

Perseverate, perseverate, perseverate. The Perseveration Game. Know that
one well, too. That one can be a toughy, but when you can channel it into A
Force for Good <g>, it's a beautiful thing. It's a fine line from
perseverance to perseveration, after all.
>
> And, he doesn't understand the rules, so whenever he DOES have cards,
> he loses all the good ones immediately because the other kids see him
> as a sucker.

Now, *that* was my youngest! The nice thing in our old neighborhood was
that we (the parents) quickly caught on as to who would 'take advantage' of
younger/more gullible players and we all kind of rode herd on the kids after
playing/trading cards to make sure that this was kept to a minimum. Usually
what would happen is that the kids gravitated to our front porch to play,
and David and one of the other kids' dads would hang out and chat while
keeping a stealthy eye on the card play.

>
> > I do let my kids use their allowance for card game purchases....perhaps,
to
> > encourage cooperation in your house -- if these games are of such
interest
> > to him -- you might consider a 'points system' -- where in exchange for
> > certain chores, or working on specific behaviors, etc., he can earn
points
> > towards the purchase of the cards.
> >
> > He's more inclined to cooperate if he has a vested interest in the
'reward'.
> > :)
>
> We've tried points systems of reward/punishment, but they don't work
> very well with Zachary, because he quickly gets into the legalism of,
> "Well, I don't care if I lose points, and I don't feel like feeding
> the dogs, so I'm not going to do it."

Just free ranging thoughts here, but maybe put less emphasis on chores and
losing points versus encouraging behaviors you want to see and positive
gain? My ADHDer quickly figured out the 'legalese', too...but when we
eliminated the "punishment" factor of a point system and focused on
behaviors and "rewards" for achieving them (short term and longer term
"rewards" built in so that he didn't get frustrated that it might take a
long time to earn a "bigger" reward), he was more cooperative in working
towards the positive gain....and what we discovered was that over time, the
behaviors we were working towards became more ingrained and we could then
choose a different behavior to work on. We also only worked on one or two
behaviors at a time and *always* phrased it in the positive; i.e., 'Stephen
will use an indoor voice' rather than 'Stephen will not shout in the house'
(because he would skip over the 'will not' part <g>).
>
> He has Oppositional Defiance Disorder, too.

Stephen doesn't, but has many behaviors that wander there. :)

Leah
______
In Memory of David, 11/10/61 - 5/21/03
Beloved Husband, Father, Heart's Companion

>
> Michelle
> Flutist
>
> --
> In my heart. By my side.
> Never apart. AP with Pride!
> Katrina Marie (10/19/96)
> Xander Ryan (09/22/98 - 02/23/99)
> Gareth Xander (07/17/00)
> Zachary Mitchell (01/12/94, began fostering 09/05/01)
> Theona Alexis (06/03/03)

CBI
July 15th 03, 04:31 AM
"H Schinske" > wrote in message
...
> >I asked his doc about diet changes, and she just
> >> gave me a wierd look?
> >
> >Considering that medicine is evidence-based, and there is very little
> >evidence that diet affects ADHD, and very good evidence that Ritalin and
> >other meds do help, what would you expect her to do?
>
> Educate the parent, rather than giving her "weird looks." Any doctor with
> enough expertise to diagnose ADHD accurately ought to know about the
Feingold
> diet and be able to give a measured, reasoned, polite statement of their
> opinion of it. It's not at all helpful to just act as though you'd never
heard
> of it.

The Feingold diet has been studied for ADD and found to not be effective.
This was some time ago and today about the only place you see it mentioned
in medical discussions of ADD is an example of ideas that may be encountered
that don't work. So, if the doc is young she may not have ever heard of it.

There have been other studies of diet, frequently food colorings, that
showed disappointing results. Some of them specifically targeted
parents/kids who claimed a specific sensitivity so the relative rarity of it
or sensitivity of the studies should not be an issue.

--
CBI

michelle downunder
July 15th 03, 04:34 AM
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:31:19 -0400, "CBI" >
wrote:

>
>
>"H Schinske" > wrote in message
...
>> >I asked his doc about diet changes, and she just
>> >> gave me a wierd look?
>> >
>> >Considering that medicine is evidence-based, and there is very little
>> >evidence that diet affects ADHD, and very good evidence that Ritalin and
>> >other meds do help, what would you expect her to do?
>>
>> Educate the parent, rather than giving her "weird looks." Any doctor with
>> enough expertise to diagnose ADHD accurately ought to know about the
>Feingold
>> diet and be able to give a measured, reasoned, polite statement of their
>> opinion of it. It's not at all helpful to just act as though you'd never
>heard
>> of it.
>
>The Feingold diet has been studied for ADD and found to not be effective.
>This was some time ago and today about the only place you see it mentioned
>in medical discussions of ADD is an example of ideas that may be encountered
>that don't work. So, if the doc is young she may not have ever heard of it.
>
>There have been other studies of diet, frequently food colorings, that
>showed disappointing results. Some of them specifically targeted
>parents/kids who claimed a specific sensitivity so the relative rarity of it
>or sensitivity of the studies should not be an issue.

also iirc, it has been debunked here in Aus as being a charletanistic
(is that a word??) approach to a very real problem.

Michelle

dragonlady
July 15th 03, 06:33 AM
In article >,
(H Schinske) wrote:

> CBI ) wrote:
>
> >The Feingold diet has been studied for ADD and found to not be effective.
> >This was some time ago and today about the only place you see it mentioned
> >in medical discussions of ADD is an example of ideas that may be encountered
> >that don't work. So, if the doc is young she may not have ever heard of it.
>
> That's crazy. I mean, I believe you, but it seems so ignorant. Just about
> every
> layman's article about ADD mentions diet modifications. I just read a
> (newish)
> children's book about ADD that mentioned the parents having tried diet
> modifications. Any pediatrician or family doc ought to know about this, just
> as
> any pediatrician ought to know that the world is full of grandmas who think
> rice cereal makes babies sleep through the night.
>
> I really think doctors ought to be made to read the lay medical literature
> from
> time to time -- both good and bad examples. It happens so often that doctors
> and patients end up totally talking across each other because they have such
> different assumptions about where the other person is starting from.
>
> (By the way, to be totally clear, I don't support the Feingold diet myself. I
> just think the doctor should have heard of it and have a response. I think
> you
> probably knew that, but just in case.)
>
> --Helen

The handful of doctors I know barely have time to keep up with the
professional literature -- asking them to ALSO keep up with the popular
literature seems a bit much.

I'm sure most pediatricians and others who encounter ADD regularly know
that there is a common perception that diet can help; however, she may
not have been aware of the Feingold diet by name, especially as it was
"debunked" so long ago. I don't consider that particularly ignorant.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

chiam margalit
July 15th 03, 02:44 PM
(H Schinske) wrote in message >...
> CBI ) wrote:
>
> >The Feingold diet has been studied for ADD and found to not be effective.
> >This was some time ago and today about the only place you see it mentioned
> >in medical discussions of ADD is an example of ideas that may be encountered
> >that don't work. So, if the doc is young she may not have ever heard of it.
>
> That's crazy. I mean, I believe you, but it seems so ignorant. Just about every
> layman's article about ADD mentions diet modifications. I just read a (newish)
> children's book about ADD that mentioned the parents having tried diet
> modifications. Any pediatrician or family doc ought to know about this, just as
> any pediatrician ought to know that the world is full of grandmas who think
> rice cereal makes babies sleep through the night.


Most doctors, especially young ones, don't have the time to read the
lay literature, especially since so much of it is a crock. Doctors are
required to read medical literature up the wazoo, and that takes a lot
of their time. Why should they waste their family time or personal
time reading lay literature that is probably filled with
inconsistancies and inaccuracies? What would be the point other than
to spend more time debunking them.

The fact is, any doctor (neurologist, psychopharmacologist,
psychiatrist) that specializes in ADHD knows the *recent* medical
liturature, knows what works, and prescibes accordingly. Why would
they need to know about every debunked fad except to be able to argue
more effectively against it. And why would parents who are seeking
professional help going to tell that doctor that they know best, and
meds aren't appropriate? If a parent feels that way, they're not going
to be seeking competent medical help, they'll go with their gut.


>
> I really think doctors ought to be made to read the lay medical literature from
> time to time -- both good and bad examples. It happens so often that doctors
> and patients end up totally talking across each other because they have such
> different assumptions about where the other person is starting from.
>
> (By the way, to be totally clear, I don't support the Feingold diet myself. I
> just think the doctor should have heard of it and have a response. I think you
> probably knew that, but just in case.)

In this particular case, I think people might be misinterpreting the
doctor's 'weird look'. It doesn't necessarily mean that she didn't
KNOW the Feingold diet, it might have meant that she can't believe a
parent would still have faith in it after so many years of disclosure
about it's ineffectiveness. Or it might have meant that she didn't
hear the OP's question correctly. Jumping to the conclusion that
because the doctor had a 'weird look' (which was the OP's
interpretation) she apparently was ignorant of a fad diet isn't fair,
imo.

Marjorie
>
> --Helen

Marie
July 15th 03, 03:04 PM
I read some of the homeschool books that have lots of good ideas for
things to do. One example is : The Ultimate Book of Homeschooling
Ideas 500+ fun and creative learning activities for ages 3-12.
Other books that might have good ideas are science, math, etc..
experiment books for younger kids. Examples: Science Play, Outdoor
Activities, Family Math, 365 Simple Science Experiments. There are
lots of 'other' topics as well. How to draw, making things from 'items
around the house', etc. They have lots of these at the library...you
may need to browse through to see which ones have activities would be
best for the age range.


On 11 Jul 2003 20:45:42 -0700, (Brandy Kurtz)
wrote:

>Arg! Does anyone have any good websites for ideas to keep my adhd son
>busy this summer?!?!?! He's driving us all nuts! He's
>soooooooooooooooooooo toughy-feely, and the wierd screaming is driving
>me batty. His ped thought it a good idea to keep him off meds for the
>summer, I should drop him off at her house in the morning...:) Wht the
>hell do I do with him, and try to keep my sanity???
>
>Brandy



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RuggyKurtz
July 16th 03, 07:47 PM
>I'm wondering *why* your doctor has taken your child off his meds. Is
>it because he's not gaining weight or growing? If that's the case, you
>might want to look at the lastest research on growth and ADHD meds,
>because they've recently shown that the growth does catch up. It may
>be somewhat slower *now*, but the end result is pretty much the same
>height the child would have obtained without meds.
>
>If it's just for 'a break', I'd really question who is supposed to be
>getting the break, and why. For an ADHD child, being around annoyed
>parents and friends isn't fun. I haven't really gotten why doctors
>want to take kids off the meds during the summer. As the mom of two
>AHDH kids, one of whom *cannot* be off his meds for any length of time
>without serious disaster, I don't see the point of making an entire
>family miserable if it's not medically necessary.
>
>Could you please give us more information as to why your child is
>unmedicated during the summer? That would help to understand what your
>child is experiencing during these summer months.
>
>Good luck!
>
>Marjorie
>>
Well at his last doc appointment, the doctor said.."well I guess we'll be
seeing you right before school starts". I asked why not sooner, and she said
that he didnt need meds over the summer!! I know that he is not enjoying his
summer like he should be, and I paged her today, btu I am stillw aiting to hear
from her. Will let you all know what happens!

Brandy

RuggyKurtz
July 16th 03, 07:48 PM
>The problem with what you're saying is, the diet doesn't work for ANY
>ADHD child. It's been completely disproven time and time again. And
>while people who do not have ADHD children really don't understand the
>enormous stress this child can cause in a family, adding a restrictive
>diet to the mix is often detrimental to the entire family. Since the
>diet doesn't work, and families with ADHD kids pretty much know that
>changes in diet are essentially useless (unless a child has an allergy
>or insensitivity), then promoting it as something that might 'cure' a
>problem when there really is no cure is shoddy.
>
>You think it's worth a try. Fine, when your ADHD kids need help, you
>give them a restrictive diet and see if it works for you. But do not
>expect families who live with explosive, inflexible, difficult
>hyperactive children to jump at the chance to make their kid even more
>miserable with food changes they don't want or that don't work. OK?
>
>Marjorie



Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Noone can know how stressfull it is without experiencing
it first hand!

Brandy