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Phoebe & Allyson
July 8th 03, 03:06 AM
Well, I tried nursing Caterpillar lying down. Neither one
of us were very satisfied with it, but I'm not sure how much
of that was novelty, and how much was inherent to the setup.
Do any of these things change / get better / go away with
practice?

-- If she only eats on one side, she wakes up hungry 2
hours later, rather than the 3-4 she'll go after both sides

-- She slurps herself on if left to her own devices, which
results in a less good latch

-- If I keep my arm behind her head to help her latch, she's
at the wrong height, and I have to hold myself up with the
other hand

-- She flails wildly for the 30-60 minutes it takes her to
wake up and really latch on. So I get mouthed and hit and
shoved and scratched. If I sit up and pick her up, she
wakes up enough to eat.

-- I feel the nursing enough that I can't sleep through it,
and lying down is less comfortable (but more restful) than
sitting up

-- Switching sides is so disruptive to both of us that it
hardly seems worth it

Phoebe :)

Ruth Shear
July 8th 03, 05:52 AM
G'day

> Well, I tried nursing Caterpillar lying down. Neither one
> of us were very satisfied with it, but I'm not sure how much
> of that was novelty, and how much was inherent to the setup.

It did take us a while to get the hang of it, but it's so worth it now.
Some mornings I've even woken up and commented to DH that it was a good
night and DS slept through, and then DH tells me that we fed at some
godawful time of the morning that I have no recollection of because I
seem to be able to feed in my sleep these days. Not always but sometimes.

> -- If she only eats on one side, she wakes up hungry 2
> hours later, rather than the 3-4 she'll go after both sides

Don't remember this one, but see further down on feeding both sides.

> -- She slurps herself on if left to her own devices, which
> results in a less good latch

I had problems in the first week (nipple coming out as a lipstick shape,
blood blisters and pain). A great LC came out to see us and one of the
first things she did was make me lie on my side and DS lie on his side
facing me with my nipple lined up with his forehead. She told me to not
to touch him and let him find the nipple and attach himself. He did it
perfectly with a beautiful latch. My LC says most babies can do this
when left to their own devices. By watching DS do this, the main thing I
learned was that you should start with the nipple higher than their
mouths so they tilt their head back more then the bottom lip latches so
much better. So in short I dont' have a good answer for you.

> -- If I keep my arm behind her head to help her latch, she's
> at the wrong height, and I have to hold myself up with the
> other hand

I'm trying to picture this and can't quite - have to hold what up with
the other hand. Sometimes I lie on my side and have the downside arm
bent up and resting my head on that hand - but not for very long. But I
imagine your downside arm is crooked under DD so it is your top arm -
holding yourself in front or behind your back? Actually I do do
something like that when feeding from the top breast - more later..

I usually sleep with a single low neck pillow. When I lie on my side to
feed I find that it's much more comfortable with a second pillow under
my head - I keep this second pillow propped up at the headboard so I can
easily grab it and pull it under my head as he wakes to feed. The second
pillow raises me so that my nipple is a little higher off the bed and
closer to DS's mouth level. btw my breasts are not the big long sort but
the more perky Mary S type breasts. Bigger than they used to be, but not
that big in the scale of what some people talk about here.

My downside arm is sometimes curled around behind DS's back to hug him,
or bent up under the pillow under my head. My upside arm is usually
resting on top of DS to stroke, pat or hug him.

> -- She flails wildly for the 30-60 minutes it takes her to
> wake up and really latch on. So I get mouthed and hit and
> shoved and scratched. If I sit up and pick her up, she
> wakes up enough to eat.

Hmm. I forget how old the Caterpillar is - not very I think (Did she
appear the month I was away in Australia?). I think this is something
she will learn with time. Neither DS or I need to really wake up much if
at all to eat these days (19 months, but I hope you don't have to wait
that long!)

> -- I feel the nursing enough that I can't sleep through it,
> and lying down is less comfortable (but more restful) than
> sitting up

I didn't sleep through nursing for at least the first year, but it was
definitely less disruptive to all of us (we cosleep) than having to get
up to feed at night. It is much more restful for me at least, even if
awake to curl up with my little guy and listen to him/watch him feed. In
the first 6- 9 months I often would stay awake after he had finished
just watching him sleep in amazement at what we had created. 8-)

It's definitely worth sticking with it coz gee it's great when you
finally get it working.

> -- Switching sides is so disruptive to both of us that it
> hardly seems worth it

I used to lie on my side facing DS with him facing me, hold him close to
me, roll on my back with him now lying chest to chest on top of me, and
then roll to the other side. I had a bedrail on that side of the bed coz
I was worried about him falling (at first).

Then I learned from mkb about feeding from both breasts while lying on a
single side. Meaning you feed from the "bottom" and the "top breast"
without moving your nursling.

I imagine this may be easier with bigger breasts, but then I can't
really imagine what bigger breasts are like. To feed from my top breast,
I sort of roll a little more towards DS so he can reach up to the "top"
nipple. Sometimes I support myself with the upper arm, reached over his
body and leaning on the bed behind him. Sometimes it is easier to get
rid of my second pillow under my head to lower the top nipple down to
DS. These days DS just helps himself and often switches back and forth
between sides multiple times and does the manouvering himself. LOL.

Hope this helps a little. If I haven't explained this well, ask more.

DrRuth
Mum to Joshua Eamon (Nov 15th, 2001)
<http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~drruth/joshua/>

Phoebe & Allyson
July 8th 03, 12:54 PM
Dawn Lawson wrote:

>
> I will sometimes forget a feeding, since I don't get really awake
> when I don't have to get out of bed and stagger around trying to deal with
> babe in the dark.

I have the opposite problem -- I remember feedings that
didn't happen. Nothing worse than waking in the dead of the
night, thinking you fell asleep while nursing, and trying to
figure out why the baby isn't on or near you.

> I had DS on a towel (*note* extra bedding is considered a SIDS risk) and just
> "towed" him up/down and back and forth to switch sides, because I didn't like
> rolling with him, though right now I don't recall why.

That's worth a try. I'm sleeping with a waterproof pad
(like a lap pad but much bigger) under me / us now, because
it's more comfortable for me than a towel, and because
Caterpillar is prone to leaky poopy diapers in the night. I
bet if I could arrange the second one so it was just under
her, I could slide her around with it.

> And Phoebe....keep trying stuff.

I will. I wish I'd been comfortable enough earlier on to
try more things out, because I think Caterpillar is confused
when she doesn't get to nurse the same way she always
nurses. For the next baby, I must remember to never let my
guard down, even for a moment, no matter how tired I am. :)

Phoebe :)

Dawn Lawson
July 8th 03, 03:59 PM
Phoebe & Allyson wrote:

> Dawn Lawson wrote:
>
> >
> > I will sometimes forget a feeding, since I don't get really awake
> > when I don't have to get out of bed and stagger around trying to deal with
> > babe in the dark.
>
> I have the opposite problem -- I remember feedings that
> didn't happen. Nothing worse than waking in the dead of the
> night, thinking you fell asleep while nursing, and trying to
> figure out why the baby isn't on or near you.

yeah, had that happen too.

> > I had DS on a towel (*note* extra bedding is considered a SIDS risk) and just
> > "towed" him up/down and back and forth to switch sides, because I didn't like
> > rolling with him, though right now I don't recall why.
>
> That's worth a try. I'm sleeping with a waterproof pad
> (like a lap pad but much bigger) under me / us now, because
> it's more comfortable for me than a towel, and because
> Caterpillar is prone to leaky poopy diapers in the night.

BTDT too,. :-P I never got along with disposables when DS was pooping at night.
I use the waterproof pad too, but under my fitted sheet.

> I
> bet if I could arrange the second one so it was just under
> her, I could slide her around with it.

You could try that, and see if you like moving her that way. You'll find somehting
that works.

> I will. I wish I'd been comfortable enough earlier on to
> try more things out, because I think Caterpillar is confused
> when she doesn't get to nurse the same way she always
> nurses.

They're adjustable little critters, so just give it a chance to work and you might
be surprised. I do think maybe try it in the daytime when you're both awaker.

Dawn

P. G. Chavez
July 8th 03, 07:35 PM
Dawn Lawson wrote and I snipped:
>
> Phoebe & Allyson wrote:
>
> > Nothing worse than waking in the dead of the
> > night, thinking you fell asleep while nursing, and trying to
> > figure out why the baby isn't on or near you.
>
> yeah, had that happen too.

Wow! I never knew that had happened to anyone else but me. It was
mostly in the first few weeks and was extremely disorienting. I
actually had the physical sensation of DD being in my arms, but she
wasn't there when I looked. I think sleep deprivation had something to
do with it. That and giving in to the convention of putting baby to
sleep in a bassinet against my instincts. Is that the feeling you're
talking about?

-Patty, mom to Corinne [Mar-98] and Nathan [May-00]
and stepmom to Victoria [Apr-90]

Dawn Lawson
July 8th 03, 07:45 PM
P. G. Chavez wrote:

> Dawn Lawson wrote and I snipped:
> >
> > Phoebe & Allyson wrote:
> >
> > > Nothing worse than waking in the dead of the
> > > night, thinking you fell asleep while nursing, and trying to
> > > figure out why the baby isn't on or near you.
> >
> > yeah, had that happen too.
>
> Wow! I never knew that had happened to anyone else but me. It was
> mostly in the first few weeks and was extremely disorienting. I
> actually had the physical sensation of DD being in my arms, but she
> wasn't there when I looked. I think sleep deprivation had something to
> do with it. That and giving in to the convention of putting baby to
> sleep in a bassinet against my instincts. Is that the feeling you're
> talking about?

Yeah, where I would wake and wonder if I had fed DS when he'd woken last,
then figured I must have since he wsan't fussing, then would try to decide
if I had removed shield or (#$%@) lost it in the bedclothes again.

Haven't you ever tried to nurse a pillow?? ;-)

DS hasn't ever slept in his crib at night, and lately, doesn't even nap
there. Waking to feel him in my arms means that's where he is....even
before he could get as mobile as he is lately (!) he would "inchworm" his
way over with his head, and I wuold wake to find him with his head lodged
firmly into my armpit. Now I'm as likely to find his foot in my mouth or
his arm under my pillow and sometimes both at once.

Dawn

teapot
July 8th 03, 10:12 PM
Phoebe & Allyson > wrote in message news:
>
>
snip
I remember feedings that
> didn't happen. Nothing worse than waking in the dead of the
> night, thinking you fell asleep while nursing, and trying to
> figure out why the baby isn't on or near you.
>

I do that all the time! I wake up, he's not there and I think I am
still pregnant and havent had him, or that I have squashed him or that
he has been kidnapped. then i realise he is on th other side of me!

We co sleep with a cot next to the bed on my side with the long side
taken off.

I can feed lying on my side but dont like rolling with him cos it
hurts my breasts.

btw - who is mary s?

teapot and 4 week old toffee

Ruth Shear
July 9th 03, 04:31 AM
G'day

I wrote:

> > A great LC came out to see us and one of the
> > first things she did was make me lie on my side and DS lie on his side
> > facing me with my nipple lined up with his forehead.

Phoebe & Allyson > wrote:

> That sounds like I had her much too high up, then. (I think
> I usually have her too high up on that side, even when we're
> sitting up.) y

The original positioning with him so low compared to my nipple (he was
less than a week old) was I think for her to show me that he *could* do
a perfect latch and that our problems were not due to any physical
problem with him or me, but just we hadn't got it right together yet.
With him lying so far below my breast he just angled his head way back
and sort of squirmed up to my nipple.

When she showed me how to latch him myself later on, she did show me to
position his head not mouth lined up with nipple but I think more like
nose to nipple so he would bend his head back and then the bottom jaw
flanges on and the nipple is more towards the roof of the mouth.

It's been almost 20 months now (where did the time go) so I may have
misremembered the details, but hopefully someone else can chime in if
I've screwed anything up too much. I'd try it out with DS now but he's
fast asleep right now.

> her little flailing hands will be less likely to smack
> my nipple.

Heh. Wait until your little darlings starts twiddling, pinching,
squeezing....

DrRuth
Mum to Joshua Eamon (Nov 15th, 2001)
<http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~drruth/joshua/>

Ruth Shear
July 9th 03, 04:41 AM
G'day

> he still sleeps like that, with his head "thrown" back.

Yep. Joshie still sleeps like that often too. Looks uncomfortable. But
so does that cute sleeping position on the tummy with the bum up in the
air.

> And my correction for a crummy night latch is to
> grab his ankles and move him down about 3 inches......

See - we instinctively do the right thing without even knowing why
sometimes. 8-)

> Hey Mary S, your breasts are now the perk standard of mkb!!! ;-)

Heh heh. Where is she by the way? Mary Mary we miss you! I thought of
her the other day when I found a new Sandra Boynton book called Snuggle
Puppy. Boynton just makes me imagine sproutkin and Mary and their
Barnyard Dance. Well DS loves Boynton too. We recite Hey Wake up every
morning. DS loves saying "EWWW" at the broccoli stew part.

> Same. Though he's not always amenable to touch when he's nursing, and
> sometimes I just use that arm to hold my reading material ;-)

Not only books, but also the laptop, although mostly reading. It's hard
to nak while side lying.

> The ONLY time I remember that I did that when he was tiny, he was up at eye
> level, and I allowed a moment of pure mummy vanity at how gorgeous this
> little boy was(is) and he at that moment hitched a little in his sleep and
> spewed a LARGE amount of milk directly onto my face. :-P :-)

Oh LOL My poor screen just got sprayed.

> I had DS on a towel (*note* extra bedding is considered a SIDS risk) and just
> "towed" him up/down and back and forth to switch sides, because I didn't like
> rolling with him, though right now I don't recall why. :-\ must write stuff
> down.

That is a clever idea. Must remember it for next time.

> > Then I learned from mkb about feeding from both breasts while lying on a
> > single side. Meaning you feed from the "bottom" and the "top breast"
> > without moving your nursling.
>
> I tried this once or twice, but I am never comfy with it. Don't you get
> cramped up leaning over to feed the top breast without flattening the sprog?

Well the leaning over is mostly for when he's on his back - he's sort of
lying back and saying "bring it on Mum". I tend to encourage him (with a
hand behind his back) to roll over towards me as I roll back onto my
side - come to think of it I do sometimes use my arm under his head to
lift his head level a little to reach the upper breast.

> Intersting stuff, Ruth

Glad to be useful.

> And Phoebe....keep trying stuff. At some point you and the Caterpillar will
> "hit your groove" and things will go really smoothly,

Yeah - what Dawn said.

DrRuth
Mum to Joshua Eamon (Nov 15th, 2001)
<http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~drruth/joshua/>

Ruth Shear
July 9th 03, 04:46 AM
G'day

Phoebe & Allyson wrote:

> I'm sleeping with a waterproof pad
> (like a lap pad but much bigger) under me / us now, because
> it's more comfortable for me than a towel, and because
> Caterpillar is prone to leaky poopy diapers in the night.

On advice from a friend who had twins a few months before DS, I
purchased a full waterproof mattress cover for our bed. It's got pretty
nice padding on top of the plastic bit, so it doesn't feel like we are
lying on plastic or anything horrid like that.

She had told me that she had bought hers due to a worry of her waters
breaking while in bed and destroying her mattress. The water breaking in
bed didn't happen to either of us, but we are both so glad we got
waterproof mattress covers. It catches wee, runny pooh, snot, drool
(wait till teething time - you'd be amazed how much drool comes out of
one small child) and vomit (our last stomach virus was great.
Fortunately DS was smart enough to vomit on DH not me.)

I slept for a while with a small towel folded up under me because of my
overly leaky boobs.

DrRuth
Mum to Joshua Eamon (Nov 15th, 2001)
<http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~drruth/joshua/>

Ruth Shear
July 9th 03, 04:51 AM
G'day

teapot wrote:

> btw - who is mary s?

Mary S. Mum of Sproutkin. Proud owner of gold standard perky breasts.
Missing in action - where is she everyone? Did I miss some announcement
of a holiday or something while I was out of town?

> teapot and 4 week old toffee

Love these names. 8-)

By the way - love your name. Nothing like a nice cup of tea.

DrRuth
Mum to Joshua Eamon (Nov 15th, 2001)
<http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~drruth/joshua/>

Phoebe & Allyson
July 9th 03, 07:17 PM
Ruth Shear wrote:

> On advice from a friend who had twins a few months before DS, I
> purchased a full waterproof mattress cover for our bed. It's got pretty
> nice padding on top of the plastic bit, so it doesn't feel like we are
> lying on plastic or anything horrid like that.

We've got a waterproof mattress cover, which is
fabric-feeling, and zips over the mattress under the sheet.
That's what saved the mattress from the first poopy
diaper. But it didn't save the sheet, and washing the cover
would be even worse than washing the sheets in terms of
wrestling with the mattress. So I just put a waterproof mat
under me, and any milk / drool / spit-up / diaper leaks go
into the wash along with the cloth diapers.


Phoebe :)

Phoebe & Allyson
July 9th 03, 07:18 PM
Belphoebe wrote:

> Or grabs a bit of breast flesh and digs those little fingernails in


Already does that. The "clamp down with gums, place hand
against breast, straighten elbow while throwing back head"
is the one I dislike the most. :)

Phoebe :)

teapot
July 9th 03, 09:19 PM
"Belphoebe" > wrote in message >...
> "Ruth Shear" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Heh. Wait until your little darlings starts twiddling, pinching,
> > squeezing....
>
> Or grabs a bit of breast flesh and digs those little fingernails in (note to
> self: trim DS's fingernails today).
>
> Belphoebe

we have rules
the first rule of breast club is that you don't talk about breast club
the second rule of breast club is that you don't put your hand in your
mouth when your mother is trying to get a nipple in
the third rule of breast club is that you don't grab the nipple in
your vice like pincer grip

there are more rules at ramdom, when needed - such as no sucking on
the nipple and pulling your head backwards as if trying to pull the
nipple off... not that he takes any notice :-)

ahh bless

teapot and the moo boy (his name for today)

E
July 9th 03, 11:41 PM
"teapot" > wrote in message
om...
> "Belphoebe" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Ruth Shear" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > > Heh. Wait until your little darlings starts twiddling, pinching,
> > > squeezing....
> >
> > Or grabs a bit of breast flesh and digs those little fingernails in
(note to
> > self: trim DS's fingernails today).
> >
> > Belphoebe
>
> we have rules
> the first rule of breast club is that you don't talk about breast club
> the second rule of breast club is that you don't put your hand in your
> mouth when your mother is trying to get a nipple in
> the third rule of breast club is that you don't grab the nipple in
> your vice like pincer grip
>
> there are more rules at ramdom, when needed - such as no sucking on
> the nipple and pulling your head backwards as if trying to pull the
> nipple off... not that he takes any notice :-)
>
> ahh bless
>
> teapot and the moo boy (his name for today)

yes, but who, other than the mother, pays attention to these rules?
and what about the "suck it in, spit it out, suck it in, spit it out, suck
it in, spit it out, etc." thing? esp. when there is milk pouring out?
don't give me this look of "it's not fast enough/I'm not getting any."
Edith
DD doing the latter as we speak and getting a facefull (instead of the
mouthful I assume she wants...)

Dawn Lawson
July 10th 03, 12:47 AM
E wrote:

> "teapot" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Belphoebe" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > "Ruth Shear" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >
> > > > Heh. Wait until your little darlings starts twiddling, pinching,
> > > > squeezing....
> > >
> > > Or grabs a bit of breast flesh and digs those little fingernails in
> (note to
> > > self: trim DS's fingernails today).
> > >
> > > Belphoebe
> >
> > we have rules
> > the first rule of breast club is that you don't talk about breast club
> > the second rule of breast club is that you don't put your hand in your
> > mouth when your mother is trying to get a nipple in
> > the third rule of breast club is that you don't grab the nipple in
> > your vice like pincer grip
> >
> > there are more rules at ramdom, when needed - such as no sucking on
> > the nipple and pulling your head backwards as if trying to pull the
> > nipple off... not that he takes any notice :-)
> >
> > ahh bless
> >
> > teapot and the moo boy (his name for today)
>
> yes, but who, other than the mother, pays attention to these rules?
> and what about the "suck it in, spit it out, suck it in, spit it out, suck
> it in, spit it out, etc." thing? esp. when there is milk pouring out?
> don't give me this look of "it's not fast enough/I'm not getting any."
> Edith
> DD doing the latter as we speak and getting a facefull (instead of the
> mouthful I assume she wants...)

FWIW, might be TOO much milk, coming too fast, hence she's dealing with it
just fine, starting letdown, and then popping off when it overwhelms her.
(Maybe you already knew that......sorry, posting on the fly)

Akuvikate
July 10th 03, 03:08 AM
(teapot) wrote in message >...

> there are more rules at ramdom, when needed - such as no sucking on
> the nipple and pulling your head backwards as if trying to pull the
> nipple off... not that he takes any notice :-)

This has become part of the Bug's routine -- chow contentedly for a
while, then perform various whole-body acrobatics (including attempts
both to put her head through my chest wall and pull my nipple halfway
across the room) while maintaining a suction death grip. I only thank
my lucky stars that she waited until the killer soreness of the first
few weeks had let up before she started this up.

Kate
and Bug June 8 2003

Phoebe & Allyson
July 10th 03, 03:39 AM
Belphoebe wrote:

> Oh, here's a good one--fist goes into mouth. Mommy removes fist and tries
> to start a latch. Other fist replaces first fist. Repeat. ;)

As baby becomes more and more agitated and frantic because
there's no milk coming out of the things in her mouth. ;)

Phoebe :)

E
July 10th 03, 05:23 PM
"Dawn Lawson" > wrote in message
...
<SNIP>
> >
> > yes, but who, other than the mother, pays attention to these rules?
> > and what about the "suck it in, spit it out, suck it in, spit it out,
suck
> > it in, spit it out, etc." thing? esp. when there is milk pouring out?
> > don't give me this look of "it's not fast enough/I'm not getting any."
> > Edith
> > DD doing the latter as we speak and getting a facefull (instead of the
> > mouthful I assume she wants...)
>
> FWIW, might be TOO much milk, coming too fast, hence she's dealing with it
> just fine, starting letdown, and then popping off when it overwhelms her.
> (Maybe you already knew that......sorry, posting on the fly)
>
yup, the coughing and sputtering tends to give it away :)
I'm one of those rare persons who doesn't have a supply problem, unless you
consider too much a problem...
since she started sleeping 8 hours lately, it seems like I will be doing a
lot more washing of towels...

Edith
nak - where does she put it all?

July 11th 03, 07:27 AM
On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 07:10:50 -0400, Bruce and Jeanne
> wrote:

>I'm currently struggling with the same issue here with DS (5 weeks)...
snip
>> -- She slurps herself on if left to her own devices, which
>> results in a less good latch
>>
>
>I have the same problem. I usually just end up sitting up and nursing
>with lots of pillows behind me so I can lean back and doze.

If you find yourself nursing sitting up you may want to invest in a
good quality wedge pillow for your back prop. Mine makes a world of
difference. I slept through most of the night feedings sitting up. I
keep the wedge pillow at the head of the bed all the time (I simply
sleep a little lower in the bed than my husband does), and keep a good
nursing pillow beside me for easy grabbing. I could never figure out
how it was going to be easier to wedge/prop/position myself for side
nursing, so I quit trying. Now I kind of wish I could do it, since
the sleepy nursing hormones don't work so well anymore and M still
wakes at least once most nights, but it's not too bad.

Beth, mother of Margaret, still nursing at 17 months :)