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Lauren
July 8th 03, 02:02 PM
Just interested in opinions here on the point of planning to formula feed
even before a baby is born (or perhaps even conceived).

Unplanned pregnancies and exceptional circumstances aside, I can't help but
wonder that if it is too much trouble for a parent to even plan to attempt
to breastfeed (or perhaps even plan not to continue after the first couple
of days breastfeeding) then maybe they either aren't ready or aren't
suitable candidates for parenting. Am not sure yet if my own feelings change
on this subject when the parent in question is under the impression that
formula is 'almost as good'.

Another question is, does your opinion change if there is pressure from
family and friends not to breastfeed?

One other thing, does anyone have any idea or sources of information that
might give some kind of estimate as to how many women plan not to breastfeed
and reasons given?

As it can be a sensitive subject to some, I wish to point out that this
isn't about parents who try to breastfeed and can't or have been told they
can't or have problems breastfeeding etc. Just the idea of 'planning' not to
breastfeed at all or past the first couple of days.

Hope I haven't offended anyone, just interested in what other people think
on the subject.

Shannon
July 8th 03, 02:26 PM
A good friend of mine who does not have kids yet, has told me in no
uncertain terms that when she has a baby, she will breastfeed for three
months, then its formula the rest of the way. I asked her why, and she told
me that she understands that mother's milk is really the best thing until
three months, but after that, it's "too much trouble".

It's surprising to me, because she saw how easy it was for me to nurse DS
right into toddlerhood. Go figure.

-Shannon
"Lauren" > wrote in message
...
> Just interested in opinions here on the point of planning to formula feed
> even before a baby is born (or perhaps even conceived).
>
> Unplanned pregnancies and exceptional circumstances aside, I can't help
but
> wonder that if it is too much trouble for a parent to even plan to attempt
> to breastfeed (or perhaps even plan not to continue after the first couple
> of days breastfeeding) then maybe they either aren't ready or aren't
> suitable candidates for parenting. Am not sure yet if my own feelings
change
> on this subject when the parent in question is under the impression that
> formula is 'almost as good'.
>
> Another question is, does your opinion change if there is pressure from
> family and friends not to breastfeed?
>
> One other thing, does anyone have any idea or sources of information that
> might give some kind of estimate as to how many women plan not to
breastfeed
> and reasons given?
>
> As it can be a sensitive subject to some, I wish to point out that this
> isn't about parents who try to breastfeed and can't or have been told they
> can't or have problems breastfeeding etc. Just the idea of 'planning' not
to
> breastfeed at all or past the first couple of days.
>
> Hope I haven't offended anyone, just interested in what other people think
> on the subject.
>
>
>

elizabeth emerald
July 8th 03, 02:43 PM
"Shannon" > wrote in message
...
> A good friend of mine who does not have kids yet, has told me in no
> uncertain terms that when she has a baby, she will breastfeed for three
> months, then its formula the rest of the way. I asked her why, and she
told
> me that she understands that mother's milk is really the best thing until
> three months, but after that, it's "too much trouble".
>
> It's surprising to me, because she saw how easy it was for me to nurse DS
> right into toddlerhood. Go figure.
>

the first 3 months for me were the hard ones. after that it got alot easier.
& now at 10 months it's 2-3 minutes per feed. i call that pretty easy! i
think some people don't realise it is easier the further along you go.
--
elizabeth (in australia)
DS - born 20-aug-02

Dawn Lawson
July 8th 03, 04:10 PM
Lauren wrote:

> Just interested in opinions here on the point of planning to formula feed
> even before a baby is born (or perhaps even conceived).

I mentioned my feelings in another thread. My cousin is doing just this.
I find this attitude unfathomable and somewhat cavalier or irresponsible.
Not to even ATTEMPT to nurse?? I just plain don't get it.
Ignoring all the medical data that says clearly that breastmilk is best, I don't
get.
Putting one's own social life before your baby's future I don't get.
Not even LOOKING for help if friends and family aren't supportive....
)geez, why don't I tell you how I feel.....) ;-)
No, the early days of nursing aren't easy, but wtf? It's not like it lasts
forever, even if you DON'T like it. You've still got to feed the baby anyhow,
and why not do what is best?
(My cousin went so far as to say "but do children need what is best?" which I do
not get. it's free. it comes in handy dispensers, it's always available, etc
etc. I can understand that if we're talking bicycles....maybe best is too $$
and not needed. But we're talking brain development, GI protection, antibodies,
etce tc.. *and its free*

Dawn

Buzzy Bee
July 8th 03, 04:59 PM
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:43:53 +1000, "elizabeth emerald"
> wrote:
but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual!
>
>the first 3 months for me were the hard ones. after that it got alot easier.
>& now at 10 months it's 2-3 minutes per feed. i call that pretty easy! i
>think some people don't realise it is easier the further along you go.

Having had the unfortunate experience of not being able to breastfeed
(although I fully intended to) I cannot imagine someone voluntarily
going through the discomfort and misery (not to mention squickiness)
that comes with not breastfeeding. Its yuck. Two months on I am
*still* having to wear a tight bra and as soon as it comes off at
night I leak. Anytime I hear a baby cry ditto. With a baby around it
must be much worse.

Next time...

Megan
--
Seoras David Montgomery, 7 May 2003, 17 hours: sunrise to sunset (homebirth)
Seoras' story: http://seoras.farr-montgomery.com

To e-mail use: megan at farr-montgomery dot com

Astromum
July 8th 03, 05:04 PM
Lauren wrote:
> Unplanned pregnancies and exceptional circumstances aside, I can't help but
> wonder that if it is too much trouble for a parent to even plan to attempt
> to breastfeed (...<snips the rest>

You are sticking your head in a hornets nest, this will be a looong discussion...

People make choices based on what they know, or what they think they know. To
say that FF parents are not suitable candidates for parenting is a bit short
sighted IMO. Besides having proper information available (which is often a
really big deal), parents need to find a balance between what is best for the
baby and what is best for them. Besides the physical and mental health of the
mother, her career is also playing a role. BF-ing is just another thing that
needs to be fitted into the busy schedule. It is really a hard choice if you
know up front you cannot pump (enough) at work and without your job you cannot
make ends meet, or your career is instantly ruined.

> Another question is, does your opinion change if there is pressure from
> family and friends not to breastfeed?

This comes down again to providing proper information. Magazines are loaded
with ads on how easy it is to FF and only so many articles actually deal with
BF. And most of those are again on the problems that women have and often do
not emphasise how easy it can be. If you wouldn't know from friends or mkb
how simple it is, what would your image of BF be based on the every day sources?
Peer pressure can be quite overwhelming and hard to fight.

I just need to recall the ad I saw this weekend, which literally said 'well,
BF was good for the first three months, but now that I return to work, I find
it a comfortable thought that FF can provide the same nourishment for my baby'.
How short-sighted is that!? What about pumping, nursing at work, which are all
regulated by LAW in the Netherlands (where the ad came from). Many parents to
be and their relatives are exposed to such skewed information and so many Dutch
women think 'heck, for only 3 months I am not going through all the trouble'.

> As it can be a sensitive subject to some, I wish to point out that this
> isn't about parents who try to breastfeed and can't or have been told they
> can't or have problems breastfeeding etc. Just the idea of 'planning' not to
> breastfeed at all or past the first couple of days.

I feel that everyone should be given room for his or her choice, as long
as the choice is based on proper information. Providing this info should
be the role of physicians, OB/GYN's and ped's worldwide, and there is room
for enormous improvement there, as we all know. Besides that, rules and
laws are needed to allow women to work and have babies without jeopardizing
their career. As long as these issues are open, all we can do is keep talking
to other women and share our experiences, but leave the choice to them and
respect that.

--
-- Ilse
mom to Olaf (07/15/2002)
TTC #2
"What's the use of brains if you are a girl?"
Aletta Jacobs, first Dutch woman to receive a PhD

Denise
July 8th 03, 06:05 PM
"Lauren" > wrote in message
...
> Just interested in opinions here on the point of planning to formula feed
> even before a baby is born (or perhaps even conceived).
>
> Unplanned pregnancies and exceptional circumstances aside, I can't help
but
> wonder that if it is too much trouble for a parent to even plan to attempt
> to breastfeed (or perhaps even plan not to continue after the first couple
> of days breastfeeding) then maybe they either aren't ready or aren't
> suitable candidates for parenting. Am not sure yet if my own feelings
change
> on this subject when the parent in question is under the impression that
> formula is 'almost as good'.
>
> Another question is, does your opinion change if there is pressure from
> family and friends not to breastfeed?
>
> One other thing, does anyone have any idea or sources of information that
> might give some kind of estimate as to how many women plan not to
breastfeed
> and reasons given?
>
> As it can be a sensitive subject to some, I wish to point out that this
> isn't about parents who try to breastfeed and can't or have been told they
> can't or have problems breastfeeding etc. Just the idea of 'planning' not
to
> breastfeed at all or past the first couple of days.
>
> Hope I haven't offended anyone, just interested in what other people think
> on the subject.
>
>
>

A lot of my friends who are in the military, don't try to breastfeed. I've
had a couple who have done it for the 6 weeks they're on maternity leave,
but don't continue once they go back to their regular duty. The military
isn't very accomodating of pumping schedules and such, so I can understand
why they don't try. I don't think it makes them bad parents because they
don't plan on trying to breastfeed.

Sue
July 8th 03, 06:47 PM
Lauren > wrote in message news:cizOa.10619

I can't help but wonder that if it is too much trouble for a parent to even
plan to attempt to breastfeed (or perhaps even plan not to continue after
the first couple of days breastfeeding) then maybe they either aren't ready
or aren't
> suitable candidates for parenting.

I think it is a pretty strong statement. I know plenty of families who
haven't planned on breastfeeding and they certainly were ready for the
commitment and who have gone on to raise wonderful adults. I really can't
stand this attitude. Breastfeeding doesn't make a good parent. There are
lots of other things involved.

Some women are squicked out about breastfeeding so they don't want to do it.
Some go back to work relatively soon, so they don't want to bother. Lots of
women don't breastfeed because they simply do not understand that it is
important. Their doctors are not giving them the proper information. I think
more women would breastfeed if their doctors were more pro-breastfeeding.
Most doctors will tell you (probably a CYA situation) that formula is just
as good and most women believe their doctors.

I think the pendulum is swinging back to more women breastfeeding. Certainly
now, everyone I know is breastfeeding their babies. I also think that since
more people have access to the computer and are educating themselves more,
the word is spreading that breast is best.

> Another question is, does your opinion change if there is pressure from
> family and friends not to breastfeed?

I don't care one way or the other what other families do about feeding their
babies. If a new mom asks me advice about formula, I will go into the breast
is best and hopefully be able to change their mind. Most people just do not
have the information available to them and the support they need. I truly
think it begins with doctors. As soon as they adopt the attitude that breast
is best and are educated more about it, then I think more and more women
will breastfeed.
--
Sue
mom to three girls

Jenrose
July 8th 03, 08:00 PM
"Shannon" > wrote in message
...
> A good friend of mine who does not have kids yet, has told me in no
> uncertain terms that when she has a baby, she will breastfeed for three
> months, then its formula the rest of the way. I asked her why, and she
told
> me that she understands that mother's milk is really the best thing until
> three months, but after that, it's "too much trouble".
>
> It's surprising to me, because she saw how easy it was for me to nurse DS
> right into toddlerhood. Go figure.

You mean, she wants to get through the hard part and then quit right when it
gets REALLY easy?

That's just sort of weird.

Jenrose

Stephanie S
July 8th 03, 09:39 PM
"Lauren" > wrote in message
...
> Just interested in opinions here on the point of planning to formula feed
> even before a baby is born (or perhaps even conceived).
>


The only thing I can think of is strange (IMO) sexual hangups and social
stigma issues.


> Unplanned pregnancies and exceptional circumstances aside, I can't help
but
> wonder that if it is too much trouble for a parent to even plan to attempt
> to breastfeed (or perhaps even plan not to continue after the first couple
> of days breastfeeding) then maybe they either aren't ready or aren't
> suitable candidates for parenting. Am not sure yet if my own feelings
change
> on this subject when the parent in question is under the impression that
> formula is 'almost as good'.
>

I have a friend like this. We all have blind spots in our lives. I am not
willing to say that someone who is not, and will not allow themselves to be,
educated about breastfeeding is not a suitable candidate for parenthood.
Luckily, in this day and age, formula is not that bad. AND it is not that
long ago that breastfeeding was the "dumb" way, the cheap out way. Science
leads to formula, and science is progress... Blah blah blah. Anyway, some
people jjst cannot do different then their parents did.


> Another question is, does your opinion change if there is pressure from
> family and friends not to breastfeed?
>

I would personally vocally attack anyone who was not supportive of a mother
who truly wanted to breastfeed. These people should be shot on site. (I do
not really mean it. This buttinskihood just really urks me.)

> One other thing, does anyone have any idea or sources of information that
> might give some kind of estimate as to how many women plan not to
breastfeed
> and reasons given?
>

My guess is that the reason given has little relationship to the real reason
in some cases.

> As it can be a sensitive subject to some, I wish to point out that this
> isn't about parents who try to breastfeed and can't or have been told they
> can't or have problems breastfeeding etc. Just the idea of 'planning' not
to
> breastfeed at all or past the first couple of days.
>
> Hope I haven't offended anyone, just interested in what other people think
> on the subject.
>


I tend to like to change the subject when my friend tries to tell me she
"couldn't" breastfeed. I know we are speaking such different languages with
such different backgrounds and understanding that to proceed with the
conversation just annoys me.

S

Stephanie S
July 8th 03, 09:41 PM
"Rosie" > wrote in message
...
> Personally I think:
>
> Lots of women find breastfeeding unpleasant - the very IDEA of it. They
> might think of it as an animal thing, or just really dislike anyone
touching
> their breasts. I've never found it comfortable - I LOVE nursing my
> daughter, but it's still like having a clothespeg on my nipple!
>

A friend of mine was literally terified that she would feel sexually excited
by nursing her daughter. I (rather snidely) thought it was unlikely
considering how uptight she was.

> Those of us who think of breastfeeding as a lovely and positive thing
should
> think ourselves very lucky. Lots of women have bad past experiences/body
> images/lack of education/a million other sad reasons in between them and a
> positive nursing experience.
>
> At the end of the day, breastfeeding is just a small part of the enormous
> task of looking after a baby. Most of us born in the 60's/70's weren't
> breastfed, but we were still loved and mothered just as well.
>
> You don't have to breastfeed to be an excellent and loving parent - my
> husband doesn't!
>
> ROSIE
> xx
>
>

Stephanie S
July 8th 03, 09:45 PM
<SNIP>
> Some women are squicked out about breastfeeding so they don't want to do
it.
> Some go back to work relatively soon, so they don't want to bother. Lots
of
> women don't breastfeed because they simply do not understand that it is
> important. Their doctors are not giving them the proper information. I
think
> more women would breastfeed if their doctors were more pro-breastfeeding.
> Most doctors will tell you (probably a CYA situation) that formula is just
> as good and most women believe their doctors.
>


Do docs REALLY still say this kind of thing? My OB and DS's ped BOTH were
strong advocates for nursing. The ped even phoned me several times on the
weekend after birth to see how I was getting along when I had trouble. He
wanted to make sure the nurse had been by for me. And he got me an appt with
an LC himself.

I am surprised that docs still say this. Hell, even the formula companies
are not allowed to say this.

> I think the pendulum is swinging back to more women breastfeeding.
Certainly
> now, everyone I know is breastfeeding their babies. I also think that
since
> more people have access to the computer and are educating themselves more,
> the word is spreading that breast is best.
>

I second this and further think that the more people do it, the less hard it
will be on the new people, until, like in days of old, it is just something
you do. Once upon a time there was no question abotu whether or not a baby
was breastfed.

<SNIP>

H Schinske
July 8th 03, 10:16 PM
>> Most doctors will tell you (probably a CYA situation) that formula is just
>> as good and most women believe their doctors.
>>
>
>
>Do docs REALLY still say this kind of thing?

They don't so often say exactly that. More likely that most of them make
comforting noises that are supposed to be just sympathy, and people take it for
medical advice. Like the OR nurse who, when I was being wheeled in for my
section, said "I had both my babies by C-section. It's the only way to go."
That's obviously not what she was taught, and she would probably be horrified
if I went out and repeated it as advice against attempting a vaginal birth. It
was her idea of a comforting remark.

--Helen

Jenn
July 8th 03, 10:31 PM
In article >, Stephanie S
> writes
><SNIP>
>> Some women are squicked out about breastfeeding so they don't want to do
>it.
>> Some go back to work relatively soon, so they don't want to bother. Lots
>of
>> women don't breastfeed because they simply do not understand that it is
>> important. Their doctors are not giving them the proper information. I
>think
>> more women would breastfeed if their doctors were more pro-breastfeeding.
>> Most doctors will tell you (probably a CYA situation) that formula is just
>> as good and most women believe their doctors.
>>
>
>
>Do docs REALLY still say this kind of thing?

Mine asked me why I was bothering to try to get ds#1 to nurse (rather
than take EBM due to prematurely) as formula would be easier, and was
fine.

When I finally got him to nurse exclusively at six months she asked how
soon I would be weaning, as it was 'gone past time for formula to be
just as good', this in the UK, in 1999!

--
Jenn
UK

Elizabeth Reid
July 8th 03, 11:26 PM
"Shannon" > wrote in message >...
> A good friend of mine who does not have kids yet, has told me in no
> uncertain terms that when she has a baby, she will breastfeed for three
> months, then its formula the rest of the way. I asked her why, and she told
> me that she understands that mother's milk is really the best thing until
> three months, but after that, it's "too much trouble".
>
> It's surprising to me, because she saw how easy it was for me to nurse DS
> right into toddlerhood. Go figure.

Is she going back to work?

It was much easier for me, personally, to breastfeed my son
before I returned to work. I didn't have much success pumping
(I could pump about 1/3 of the milk my son would drink over
a given period) and the pumping was a hassle. If you're pumping,
you're already dealing with bottles, sterilizing, etc. that
go along with formula, so formula doesn't seem much harder.
Plus, once you're back to work, you can't 'nap when the baby
naps' - you have to act like you're functioning even during
growth spurts when the baby is nursing every hour and a half
all night long. You can't ask your partner to do a night
feed if you can't pump enough milk to begin with, and those
night feeds are critical for supply anyway. Since I was
already worried about supply, I didn't want to give up night
feeds, but I never was able to learn to sleep while nursing
or nurse lying down, and boy was it grueling.

It was definitely easier to bf in some situations. We had
an ice storm last December and it was great not to have to
worry about sterilization of bottles during that week. It
was also great during Sam's two bouts with stomach flu.
I'm glad I stuck with it, and even though Sam is now weaned
at 10+ months I think it was worth it. However, I would
not say overall that breastfeeding was clearly easier.
Better, yes, but that's a different issue.

Beth
Sam 8/16/2002

cshardie
July 9th 03, 03:06 AM
Anyone planning ahead would have their reasons. They may be misinformed
or they may just have come to different conclusions than we have based
on the same information. Either way, what's important is that they're
doing what they think is best and what works best for their family all
things considered.

--
Suzanne http://cshardie.tripod.com
sittin' on the dock of eBay, watching the bids roll away
--Richard Powers, "Literary Devices"

DGoree
July 9th 03, 05:19 AM
cshardie wrote,

<<Formula increases the risk for certain problems, but a mother forced or
guilted into breastfeeding against her will or wishes may increase the
risk of abuse. Having a family that gets along well and loves each other
is more important than health aspects that may or may not be a problem.
--
Suzanne
formula fed and healthier than most anyone else she knows>>

Well, yes, formula feeding does increase the risk for certain problems.
Certain VERY SERIOUS problems that can have lifelong implications for your
child's health and happiness. Check out the folks at
alt.support.crohns-colitis if you want to find out how a couple of those
conditions can affect people's lives.

I never dreamed that I would actually have to use this response on *this*
board, but....

I WAS FORMULA FED AND I AM NOT HEALTHY.

Please let us not minimize the very real potential health consequences of
formula feeding in an effort to spare feelings on this board, of all places. I
am certainly aware that there are some mothers that have no choice but to
supplement or FF entirely due to insufficient glandular tissue, chemotherapy
drugs, prior breast reduction surgery, or adoption, and it is for these mothers
that formula exists. But mothers who have a choice about breastfeeding need to
understand what exactly may be riding on that choice.

Mary Ellen (diagnosed with ulcerative colitis in 1993)
William (8)
Matthew (6)
Margaret (1)

A&G&K
July 9th 03, 05:36 AM
"Lauren" > wrote in message
...
> Just interested in opinions here on the point of planning to formula feed
> even before a baby is born (or perhaps even conceived).
>
> Unplanned pregnancies and exceptional circumstances aside, I can't help
but
> wonder that if it is too much trouble for a parent to even plan to attempt
> to breastfeed (or perhaps even plan not to continue after the first couple
> of days breastfeeding) then maybe they either aren't ready or aren't
> suitable candidates for parenting. Am not sure yet if my own feelings
change
> on this subject when the parent in question is under the impression that
> formula is 'almost as good'.
>
> Another question is, does your opinion change if there is pressure from
> family and friends not to breastfeed?
>
> One other thing, does anyone have any idea or sources of information that
> might give some kind of estimate as to how many women plan not to
breastfeed
> and reasons given?
>
> As it can be a sensitive subject to some, I wish to point out that this
> isn't about parents who try to breastfeed and can't or have been told they
> can't or have problems breastfeeding etc. Just the idea of 'planning' not
to
> breastfeed at all or past the first couple of days.
>
> Hope I haven't offended anyone, just interested in what other people think
> on the subject.


I would hope that women who plan to ff are doing so due to a lack of
information on the great benefits of bf. I believe that bf is a forgotten
art and that education of it benefits would do a lot to change people's
perspectives.
A case in point:
One of my good friends always used to describe bf as gross and bf babies as
parasites. She told me that it was "OK" for me to bf my daughter for 1
year, but that more than that would be wrong (not that I pay that much
mind). She had a phobia about babies in general and would shake if I asked
her to hold DD for me while I went to the loo ... She has always also had a
"thing" about her breasts as she thinks they are too small and *always* has
something to say about my larger breasts.
BUT all that has changed and I'm happy to say that she is bf her 3 week old
DD and plans to continue. I'm happily being bored to tears with her endless
gushing about her beautiful new DD's bf antics and her offers of teaching me
how to bf whilst lying down (an art which I can do, but find incredibly
uncomfortable due to my bust size).
Part of the reason for her changed ideals is that I managed to slip her a
few good books on the benefits of bf when she got pregnant and subtly
encouraged her to attend an ABA course on bf whilst she was pg. ... and now
we behold the changed woman who is the picture of bf motherhood and espouses
the benefits to one and all. It brings a tear to my eye as I stifle laughter
when I hear her repeating my own words of wisdom back to me.

.... and for the record, I consider formula to be almost adequate rather than
almost "as good". In my opinion its what you use to feed a baby when every
attempt at bf has failed.
Cheers
Amanda

Beth
July 9th 03, 06:07 AM
"Lauren" > wrote in message
...
> I can't help but
> wonder that if it is too much trouble for a parent to even plan to attempt
> to breastfeed (or perhaps even plan not to continue after the first couple
> of days breastfeeding) then maybe they either aren't ready or aren't
> suitable candidates for parenting.

Well, they are fighting hard to conserve their ignorance. I don't admire
that quality in a parent at all, although far be it from me to say that
someone is not a suitable candidate to be a parent. Sure they are parent
material . . . just not very conscientious.

> Another question is, does your opinion change if there is pressure from
> family and friends not to breastfeed?

No. Except when pressure to FF comes from the husband, because his
cooperation really does make a big difference when one BFs.

> One other thing, does anyone have any idea or sources of information that
> might give some kind of estimate as to how many women plan not to
breastfeed
> and reasons given?

In the US it's roughly 50%, isn't it? Or even more? The majority of the
reasons not to BF are pure horse****, imo. Including, quite often, feeling
a sense of social or psychic discomfort at using one's breasts to feed a
baby. I mean hello . . . you had sex and grunted out a baby after 9 months
.. . . pretty damn graphic and suggestive compared to nursing, fer cryeye!
Get over yourself!

Hey . . . I had artificial insemination and then a c-section. Might be why
I'm such a committed breastfeeder . . . I need to do *something earthy* ;-)

>
> As it can be a sensitive subject to some, I wish to point out that this
> isn't about parents who try to breastfeed and can't or have been told they
> can't or have problems breastfeeding etc. Just the idea of 'planning' not
to
> breastfeed at all or past the first couple of days.

Yes . . . I understand. I reserve my negative judgment for women who are
able but will not. FF is such a lose/lose activity!

Beth

Al Bell
July 9th 03, 06:25 AM
"Lauren" > writes:

>Unplanned pregnancies and exceptional circumstances aside, I can't help but
>wonder that if it is too much trouble for a parent to even plan to attempt
>to breastfeed (or perhaps even plan not to continue after the first couple
>of days breastfeeding) then maybe they either aren't ready or aren't
>suitable candidates for parenting.

It's like driving an SUV.

Individually: not that risky. Most people I know are healthy and few of us
got any breastmilk.

Populationwise: greatly increases the risk of costly health problems. A
very selfish decision. But it's a free universe.

KC
July 9th 03, 06:40 AM
I don't run around judging who is and isn't suitable candidates for
parenting. In the absence of people planning to break laws I mind my
own business. Most people have the natural drive to procreate, and
them planning to formula feed would not make me want to keep them from
fulfilling their drive and pursuing their happiness.

KC

"Lauren" > wrote in message >...
> Just interested in opinions here on the point of planning to formula feed
> even before a baby is born (or perhaps even conceived).
>
> Unplanned pregnancies and exceptional circumstances aside, I can't help but
> wonder that if it is too much trouble for a parent to even plan to attempt
> to breastfeed (or perhaps even plan not to continue after the first couple
> of days breastfeeding) then maybe they either aren't ready or aren't
> suitable candidates for parenting. Am not sure yet if my own feelings change
> on this subject when the parent in question is under the impression that
> formula is 'almost as good'.
>
> Another question is, does your opinion change if there is pressure from
> family and friends not to breastfeed?
>
> One other thing, does anyone have any idea or sources of information that
> might give some kind of estimate as to how many women plan not to breastfeed
> and reasons given?
>
> As it can be a sensitive subject to some, I wish to point out that this
> isn't about parents who try to breastfeed and can't or have been told they
> can't or have problems breastfeeding etc. Just the idea of 'planning' not to
> breastfeed at all or past the first couple of days.
>
> Hope I haven't offended anyone, just interested in what other people think
> on the subject.

Rosie
July 9th 03, 09:45 AM
> >> Most doctors will tell you (probably a CYA situation) that formula is
just
> >> as good and most women believe their doctors.
> >>
> >Do docs REALLY still say this kind of thing?

Last WEEK my health visitor told me (because DD is not really eating solids)
that she will need vitamin drops now, because 'unfortunately your breastmilk
doesn't have the added nutrients and vitamins that follow-on formula would
have for her now'.

ROSIE

Marion Baumgarten
July 9th 03, 12:55 PM
breastfeeder . . . I need to do *something earthy* ;-)
>
> >
> > As it can be a sensitive subject to some, I wish to point out that this
> > isn't about parents who try to breastfeed and can't or have been told they
> > can't or have problems breastfeeding etc. Just the idea of 'planning' not
> to
> > breastfeed at all or past the first couple of days.
>
> Yes . . . I understand. I reserve my negative judgment for women who are
> able but will not. FF is such a lose/lose activity!
>
> Beth

I just don't waste my energy judging other parents. Period. My daughter
is about to start HS- the formula fed kids don't have horns or anything.

Belphoebe
July 9th 03, 01:36 PM
"cshardie" > wrote in message
. ..
> Astromum wrote:
> > This comes down again to providing proper information. Magazines are
loaded
> > with ads on how easy it is to FF and only so many articles actually deal
> > with BF.
>
> What we need to do is put out some world wide breastfeeding ads :) Do
> the breastpump companies do ads? I've never seen one.

I've seen Avent ads. Some of them are for their bottles and sippy cups, but
the bottom of the page always features other products, including pumps.

One of my "if I had unlimited money" fantasies is to outmarket the formula
companies, with pro-BF print and TV ads and goodie bags for new moms (with
pumps, slings, lanolin, good info about bf, coupons for free LC sessions,
teeny "Got Breastmilk" t-shirts, etc.) to be distributed at hospitals.

Belphoebe

Astromum
July 9th 03, 03:12 PM
cshardie wrote:
> Astromum wrote:
>
>> This comes down again to providing proper information. Magazines are
>> loaded
>> with ads on how easy it is to FF and only so many articles actually
>> deal with BF.
>
>
> What we need to do is put out some world wide breastfeeding ads :) Do
> the breastpump companies do ads? I've never seen one.
>

Come to think of it: I have never seen one. And it makes me wonder: in
order to buy my PIS I had to visit this lady (back in the Netherlands)
who was a Medela representative. She worked from home and was very
helpful, but she alone served almost the entire northern part of the
country when it came to pumps. Other brands were impossible to find.

Now, why wouldn't I be able to buy the pump in a baby store like all my
other baby items? If you see them there, wouldn't a mom-to-be be more
inclined to start thinking about breastfeeding and pumping? And why do
I have a choice of only 1, which is also quite expensive? Baby items
seem to come in all shapes, sizes, colours and prices, except for the
pump. Just put a bunch of them right next to the zillions of bottles
and formula that they sell...

--
-- Ilse
mom to Olaf (07/15/2002)
TTC #2
"What's the use of brains if you are a girl?"
Aletta Jacobs, first Dutch woman to receive a PhD

Karen Askey
July 9th 03, 03:16 PM
In article >, "Stephanie S"
> writes:

>> Most doctors will tell you (probably a CYA situation) that formula is just
>> as good and most women believe their doctors.
>>
>
>
>Do docs REALLY still say this kind of thing? My OB and DS's ped BOTH were
>strong advocates for nursing.

Granted, this doc was a plastic surgeon and not an ob or pediatrician, but when
I asked to get DS's tongue clipped for tongue tie he said no. When I expressed
my strong desire to nurse, he said that bottles were easier, anyway. His wife
had just given birth, too.


koa
Still nursing James, 02/06/01
EP'ing for Joey 04/02/03 (BiCP)

P. G. Chavez
July 9th 03, 04:16 PM
A&G&K wrote and I snipped:
>
> I would hope that women who plan to ff are doing so due to a lack of
> information on the great benefits of bf. I believe that bf is a forgotten
> art and that education of it benefits would do a lot to change people's
> perspectives.
> A case in point:
> One of my good friends always used to describe bf as gross and bf babies as
> parasites. She told me that it was "OK" for me to bf my daughter for 1
> year, but that more than that would be wrong (not that I pay that much
> mind). She had a phobia about babies in general and would shake if I asked
> her to hold DD for me while I went to the loo ... She has always also had a
> "thing" about her breasts as she thinks they are too small and *always* has
> something to say about my larger breasts.
> BUT all that has changed and I'm happy to say that she is bf her 3 week old
> DD and plans to continue. I'm happily being bored to tears with her endless
> gushing about her beautiful new DD's bf antics and her offers of teaching me
> how to bf whilst lying down (an art which I can do, but find incredibly
> uncomfortable due to my bust size).
> Part of the reason for her changed ideals is that I managed to slip her a
> few good books on the benefits of bf when she got pregnant and subtly
> encouraged her to attend an ABA course on bf whilst she was pg. ... and now
> we behold the changed woman who is the picture of bf motherhood and espouses
> the benefits to one and all. It brings a tear to my eye as I stifle laughter
> when I hear her repeating my own words of wisdom back to me.
>
> ... and for the record, I consider formula to be almost adequate rather than
> almost "as good". In my opinion its what you use to feed a baby when every
> attempt at bf has failed.
> Cheers
> Amanda

A huge (virtual) pat on the back for you, Amanda!!! What a wonderful
thing you did for your friend and her baby.

-Patty, mom to Corinne [Mar-98] and Nathan [May-00]
and stepmom to Victoria [Apr-90]

Jenn
July 9th 03, 04:59 PM
In article >, Belphoebe
> writes
>One of my "if I had unlimited money" fantasies is to outmarket the formula
>companies, with pro-BF print and TV ads and goodie bags for new moms (with
>pumps, slings, lanolin, good info about bf, coupons for free LC sessions,
>teeny "Got Breastmilk" t-shirts, etc.) to be distributed at hospitals.
>
>Belphoebe
>
>
You too huh? I have weird dreams about going onto daytime TV and being
interviewed about the new BF add campaign . . .
--
Jenn
UK

Stephanie S
July 9th 03, 07:55 PM
"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Stephanie S
> > writes
> ><SNIP>
> >> Some women are squicked out about breastfeeding so they don't want to
do
> >it.
> >> Some go back to work relatively soon, so they don't want to bother.
Lots
> >of
> >> women don't breastfeed because they simply do not understand that it is
> >> important. Their doctors are not giving them the proper information. I
> >think
> >> more women would breastfeed if their doctors were more
pro-breastfeeding.
> >> Most doctors will tell you (probably a CYA situation) that formula is
just
> >> as good and most women believe their doctors.
> >>
> >
> >
> >Do docs REALLY still say this kind of thing?
>
> Mine asked me why I was bothering to try to get ds#1 to nurse (rather
> than take EBM due to prematurely) as formula would be easier, and was
> fine.
>
> When I finally got him to nurse exclusively at six months she asked how
> soon I would be weaning, as it was 'gone past time for formula to be
> just as good', this in the UK, in 1999!
>
> --
> Jenn
> UK


That would cause me to find a new doc.

S

Stephanie S
July 9th 03, 07:55 PM
"Rosie" > wrote in message
...
>
> > >> Most doctors will tell you (probably a CYA situation) that formula is
> just
> > >> as good and most women believe their doctors.
> > >>
> > >Do docs REALLY still say this kind of thing?
>
> Last WEEK my health visitor told me (because DD is not really eating
solids)
> that she will need vitamin drops now, because 'unfortunately your
breastmilk
> doesn't have the added nutrients and vitamins that follow-on formula would
> have for her now'.
>
> ROSIE
>
>


WHAT??!!??! Did you call her on this? (Incidentally, what is a 'health
visitor?')

S

cshardie
July 9th 03, 09:28 PM
Look, I appologize. I didn't mean to minimize the health risks that
formula fed babies face. I just don't want anyone to minimize the
*other* risks that babies might face when mothers are forced to
breastfeed. BF should be something we *choose* to do, not something
we're guilted into.

--
Suzanne http://cshardie.tripod.com
sittin' on the dock of eBay, watching the bids roll away
--Richard Powers, "Literary Devices"

Rosie
July 9th 03, 09:48 PM
> WHAT??!!??! Did you call her on this? (Incidentally, what is a 'health
> visitor?')

Yes I spoke to her senior to ask her opinion - she agreed it would be best
to give DD vitamin drops. I didn't pursue it further, I've heard SO many
crazy comments from Docs and health visitors - I do try to put my point of
view across but it does get tiring!

(Health Visitors provide in-the-community health care, particularly for
children. They are responsible for all sorts, but at DD's age it's
basically occasional weighing and measuring and hearing tests and the like.
They are not all very well trained of bfing - although some of them are
excellent. They work as a team for each doctor's surgery. I think that's a
basic summary but I don't know all the ins and outs.)

ROSIE

Rosie
July 9th 03, 09:57 PM
> WHAT??!!??! Did you call her on this? (Incidentally, what is a 'health
> visitor?')

Actually I have just done a quick search on this, and apparently "UK
government guidelines state that breastfed babies above the age of six
months should take vitamin drops as a nutritional safety net." (according to
the NCT site)

ROSIE

Astromum
July 9th 03, 10:05 PM
Rosie wrote:
>
> Actually I have just done a quick search on this, and apparently "UK
> government guidelines state that breastfed babies above the age of six
> months should take vitamin drops as a nutritional safety net." (according to
> the NCT site)

In the Netherlands they recommend vitamin A and D supplements for
breastfed babies, but they are quite clear that it is a recommendation
and the kid is in no 'imminent threat' if you don't. As a matter of
fact, even doctors do not agree on it, and studies are not showing
a clear lack of these vitamins in BF babies compared to FF babies...

--
-- Ilse
mom to Olaf (07/15/2002)
TTC #2
"What's the use of brains if you are a girl?"
Aletta Jacobs, first Dutch woman to receive a PhD

Catherine C.
July 10th 03, 01:26 AM
"Sue" > wrote in message >...

>
> I think the pendulum is swinging back to more women breastfeeding. Certainly
> now, everyone I know is breastfeeding their babies. I also think that since
> more people have access to the computer and are educating themselves more,
> the word is spreading that breast is best.


I agree with you...my grandson was born 9 months ago and not only did
my daughter breastfeed but so did every single one of her friends who
had babies around the same time...in this neck of the woods, bfing
appears to be the norm!

Catherine C.

Naomi Pardue
July 10th 03, 03:04 AM
>Do docs REALLY still say this kind of thing? My OB and DS's ped BOTH were
>strong advocates for nursing.

I would suspect it's usually more along the lines of "breast is best, but most
babies do just fine on formula if you can't or don't want to breast feed."

>The ped even phoned me several times on the
>weekend after birth to see how I was getting along when I had trouble. He
>wanted to make sure the nurse had been by for me. And he got me an appt with
>an LC himself.

Were you eager and anxious to bf? Did the doctor know this? I think that's a
big part of the difference? Many doctors will be very supportive if the woman
has made it clear that she is eager to succeed, but don't want to 'make her
feel guilty' by pressuring an unwilling or uncertain woman. (My pediatrician
was very supportive of my breastfeeding, and pleased that I nursed Shaina for
over a year. My SIL has the same ped for her daughter. When she called for
advice at 3 days post partum, having problems, he told her that it was ok to go
ahead and wean, that she'd given bfing a good try. *I* wanted to bf. *SHE*
wanted 'permission' to quit.)


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

Naomi Pardue
July 10th 03, 03:06 AM
>(Health Visitors provide in-the-community health care, particularly for
>children.

>They are not all very well trained of bfing - although some of them are
>excellent.

Y'know ... I hear so many really bad things about HV's on this group that I
have to wonder just what kind of training these women are receiving. It's like
something out of the 1950's....


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

CY
July 10th 03, 08:28 AM
I personally don't see why people feel forced to bf. IIMO there was no
reason NOT to bf. If anything I think society forces people to FF not the
other way around. I think that if it's a psychological thing, then that
person should seek help BEFORE having a child and get it figured out. I
don't really see why someone "forced" into BFing would be more likely to
abuse their child. Does anyone else?
"cshardie" > wrote in message
. ..
> Look, I appologize. I didn't mean to minimize the health risks that
> formula fed babies face. I just don't want anyone to minimize the
> *other* risks that babies might face when mothers are forced to
> breastfeed. BF should be something we *choose* to do, not something
> we're guilted into.
>
> --
> Suzanne http://cshardie.tripod.com
> sittin' on the dock of eBay, watching the bids roll away
> --Richard Powers, "Literary Devices"
>

A&G&K
July 10th 03, 09:18 AM
"P. G. Chavez" > wrote in message
...
> A&G&K wrote and I snipped:
> >
> > I would hope that women who plan to ff are doing so due to a lack of
> > information on the great benefits of bf. I believe that bf is a
forgotten
> > art and that education of it benefits would do a lot to change people's
> > perspectives.
> > A case in point:
> > One of my good friends always used to describe bf as gross and bf babies
as
> > parasites. She told me that it was "OK" for me to bf my daughter for 1
> > year, but that more than that would be wrong (not that I pay that much
> > mind). She had a phobia about babies in general and would shake if I
asked
> > her to hold DD for me while I went to the loo ... She has always also
had a
> > "thing" about her breasts as she thinks they are too small and *always*
has
> > something to say about my larger breasts.
> > BUT all that has changed and I'm happy to say that she is bf her 3 week
old
> > DD and plans to continue. I'm happily being bored to tears with her
endless
> > gushing about her beautiful new DD's bf antics and her offers of
teaching me
> > how to bf whilst lying down (an art which I can do, but find incredibly
> > uncomfortable due to my bust size).
> > Part of the reason for her changed ideals is that I managed to slip her
a
> > few good books on the benefits of bf when she got pregnant and subtly
> > encouraged her to attend an ABA course on bf whilst she was pg. ... and
now
> > we behold the changed woman who is the picture of bf motherhood and
espouses
> > the benefits to one and all. It brings a tear to my eye as I stifle
laughter
> > when I hear her repeating my own words of wisdom back to me.
> >
> > ... and for the record, I consider formula to be almost adequate rather
than
> > almost "as good". In my opinion its what you use to feed a baby when
every
> > attempt at bf has failed.
> > Cheers
> > Amanda
>
> A huge (virtual) pat on the back for you, Amanda!!! What a wonderful
> thing you did for your friend and her baby.
>
> -Patty, mom to Corinne [Mar-98] and Nathan [May-00]
> and stepmom to Victoria [Apr-90]

Ta,
Now I just have to be supportive while my best friend learns to nurse her 2
week old premmie bub from the breast. She is doing so well (despite one
nurse who gave her DD a dummy) and I've got everything crossed that her
little DD manages to suckle for a whole feed really soon (without getting
too tired). She's built up her pumped supply and they have rigorously stuck
to the naso-gastric tube for feedings. They even put a sign in the crib
stating that their bub was not to be given bottles or dummies. ... or else!
Luckily her ped is pro bf and she is getting great support from him as well.
Thanks
Amanda

E
July 10th 03, 05:27 PM
"cshardie" > wrote in message
. ..
> Look, I appologize. I didn't mean to minimize the health risks that
> formula fed babies face. I just don't want anyone to minimize the
> *other* risks that babies might face when mothers are forced to
> breastfeed. BF should be something we *choose* to do, not something
> we're guilted into.
>
> --
> Suzanne http://cshardie.tripod.com
> sittin' on the dock of eBay, watching the bids roll away
> --Richard Powers, "Literary Devices"
>
I hope I didn't add to the guilt here. I really do agree with this. I just
feel bad when I know someone who won't even try. I do try to let them make
their own decisions - even if it is hard for me to let go... they're the
ones who have to deal with it on a daily basis, I don't.
so, I am trying to say here that I agree.
Edith

cshardie
July 10th 03, 07:49 PM
CY wrote:

> I personally don't see why people feel forced to bf. IIMO there was no
> reason NOT to bf. If anything I think society forces people to FF not the
> other way around. I think that if it's a psychological thing, then that
> person should seek help BEFORE having a child and get it figured out.

In a perfect world. I'm sure some do. But what if they don't. What if
the "help" doesn't help? If you're willing to tell someone they
shouldn't be a parent if they are psychologicaly unwilling to nurse go
ahead. I don't think that's right.

> I don't really see why someone "forced" into BFing would be more likely to
> abuse their child. Does anyone else?

If breastfeeding wasn't something I had chosen and wanted to do, I would
have given up on it. Those weeks at the beginning when dd was nursing
non stop, it would go until I didn't even want her to *touch* me any
more. Fortunately I knew enough to hand her off to my husband for a
while. Sometimes he could get her to take a bottle I had expressed
earlier sometimes he could cuddle her for half an hour or so until I
felt better. If he hadn't been supportive or if he hadn't been around I
would have had to put her down and just listen to her scream. I can't
imagine that would have been much better than holding her when she
wanted to suck more than I could stand.

And I'm psychologically healthy and made the decision on my own :)

So, yes, I can understand how someone who felt like they *had* to
breastfeed to be a good mother but it was driving them crazy might want
to or might accidentally hurt their baby.

--
Suzanne http://cshardie.tripod.com
sittin' on the dock of eBay, watching the bids roll away
--Richard Powers, "Literary Devices"

H Schinske
July 10th 03, 11:51 PM
wrote:

>If breastfeeding wasn't something I had chosen and wanted to do, I would
>have given up on it. Those weeks at the beginning when dd was nursing
>non stop, it would go until I didn't even want her to *touch* me any
>more. Fortunately I knew enough to hand her off to my husband for a
>while.

But surely many mothers, maybe even most, occasionally have those feelings
about a newborn, nursing or not, especially a first baby? I think breastfeeding
often gets blamed for a lot of the difficulties of just relating to your baby
in the first days and weeks. Breastfeeding is the most obvious thing we're not
sure we're doing right, and all the anxieties seem to center on that. Plus most
mothers just don't have enough help. (I still scratch my head at people who
want to bottlefeed so someone else can help, as if there weren't eight million
other things that needed doing besides feeding the baby!)

--Helen

KC
July 11th 03, 08:00 AM
(H Schinske) wrote in message
> But surely many mothers, maybe even most, occasionally have those feelings
> about a newborn, nursing or not, especially a first baby? I think breastfeeding
> often gets blamed for a lot of the difficulties of just relating to your baby
> in the first days and weeks. Breastfeeding is the most obvious thing we're not
> sure we're doing right, and all the anxieties seem to center on that. Plus most
> mothers just don't have enough help. (I still scratch my head at people who
> want to bottlefeed so someone else can help, as if there weren't eight million
> other things that needed doing besides feeding the baby!)
>


Surely people who ff complain too, but I kind of wonder if any of the
people who think that bf is easier have ever ff. IME ff is easier
hands down. I just mixed the water with the formula right when we
needed a bottle and it was ready. We gave her room temp formula
rather than warm. My dd drank it soooo much faster than the time I
spend bf, but we did use a faster flow nipple. As for the bottles we
had enough that I just did one load of dishes in the evening as usual.
There was no holding still while a baby was attached to the nipple
for hours on end with ff. I am all for bf and am bf this time for the
health benefits, but IME ff was easier. IMHO the reason so many
people fail at bf is because ff is so temptingly much easier.

KC

Naomi Pardue
July 11th 03, 02:05 PM
> There was no holding still while a baby was attached to the nipple
>for hours on end with ff.

Except that you don't have to do that! You can move while the baby nurses!
(Many mothers carry the baby in a sling, and go about their regular business
(shopping/housework/whatever) while the baby nurses as he whishes.

> IMHO the reason so many
>people fail at bf is because ff is so temptingly much easier.

This is true, beucase it probably is, or seems that way AT THE BEGINNING. In
the first few days/weeks, bfing IS often a challenge. And you're right, for
many mothers, formula feeding does seem, or IS, the easier choice at that time.
They don't realize that if they can just stick it out for few weeks, that
bfing will become much easier.


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

Denise
July 11th 03, 03:49 PM
"KC" > wrote in message
om...
> (H Schinske) wrote in message
> > But surely many mothers, maybe even most, occasionally have those
feelings
> > about a newborn, nursing or not, especially a first baby? I think
breastfeeding
> > often gets blamed for a lot of the difficulties of just relating to your
baby
> > in the first days and weeks. Breastfeeding is the most obvious thing
we're not
> > sure we're doing right, and all the anxieties seem to center on that.
Plus most
> > mothers just don't have enough help. (I still scratch my head at people
who
> > want to bottlefeed so someone else can help, as if there weren't eight
million
> > other things that needed doing besides feeding the baby!)
> >
>
>
> Surely people who ff complain too, but I kind of wonder if any of the
> people who think that bf is easier have ever ff. IME ff is easier
> hands down. I just mixed the water with the formula right when we
> needed a bottle and it was ready. We gave her room temp formula
> rather than warm. My dd drank it soooo much faster than the time I
> spend bf, but we did use a faster flow nipple. As for the bottles we
> had enough that I just did one load of dishes in the evening as usual.
> There was no holding still while a baby was attached to the nipple
> for hours on end with ff. I am all for bf and am bf this time for the
> health benefits, but IME ff was easier. IMHO the reason so many
> people fail at bf is because ff is so temptingly much easier.

I've done both, ff'ed and bf'ed and I regularly care for a child who is
ff'ed. IME, breastfeeding is a TON easier. When my middle dd was on
formula I felt like I was in a foreign land. I always felt as if I was
overfeeding her, its not as easy to ff on demand as it is to bf. I *hate*
bottles. I hate washing them, keeping track of them, making sure I
remembered to pack them when we went out. I was never big on sterilizing,
but still I had to keep track of the seperate parts in the dishwasher, I had
to keep cans of formula from spilling when we travelled (her formula was
only available in RTE). I once lost a whole can of formula on an airplane
on a trip to Florida, and I literally cried. I had to make sure I had
enough formula for the trips and layovers in airports.. etc. My boobs,
though, travel easily and require no storage. I can walk and breastfeed,
sit and breastfeed, chase a toddler around and breastfeed. I've never felt
tethered (minus the first couple weeks) while I was breastfeeding.

Jenrose
July 11th 03, 08:04 PM
"KC" > wrote in message
om...
> (H Schinske) wrote in message
<snip>
> Surely people who ff complain too, but I kind of wonder if any of the
> people who think that bf is easier have ever ff. IME ff is easier
> hands down. I just mixed the water with the formula right when we
> needed a bottle and it was ready. We gave her room temp formula
> rather than warm. My dd drank it soooo much faster than the time I
> spend bf, but we did use a faster flow nipple. As for the bottles we
> had enough that I just did one load of dishes in the evening as usual.
> There was no holding still while a baby was attached to the nipple
> for hours on end with ff. I am all for bf and am bf this time for the
> health benefits, but IME ff was easier. IMHO the reason so many
> people fail at bf is because ff is so temptingly much easier.

I formula fed my foster son after having breastfed my daughter.

I did the same thing... mixed powder into lukewarm water. It wasn't
particularly hard, but ugh, it added 40 minutes of cleaning every day or
two--time I'd either be washing bottles with the baby on my chest or
washing bottles with the baby NOT on my chest, when I'd rather simply be
cuddling with baby. Now I didn't have a dishwasher, but still--I never have
to load my boobs into the dishwasher either. And nighttime feedings...yuck.
I can make a bottle of formula without turning on the light, but I can't
tell you how many times I woke up with him having spit the nipple of the
bottle out, it having landed on the bed, and a huge wet spot with a nasty
formula smell. I don't mind breastfeeding at night, even leaky, because
breastmilk just doesn't smell bad when it leaks and I just flat out don't
wake up to latch the baby on. Formula gets yucky pretty quickly. And I *did*
have to wake up at least a little, lest errors happen, with formula. One
night I didn't get the powder compartment turned all the way and couldn't
figure out why baby was so unhappy with me...until I turned on the light and
realized I'd been feeding him formula so thin that it was almost clear.

With a good sling, holding still while baby nurses is just NOT an issue.
Travelling with a formula fed baby is only easier in one respect--that is,
you can feed the baby in a moving car. But you have to haul along formula,
bottles, nipples, water, and g_d help you if you're out longer than you
expected to be. With my daughter, if she got hungry, I could nurse her, no
big deal.

Oh, and figuring out how much to give... good heavens, I spent more time
trying to be psychic about how much fs would eat, so that we wouldn't have
to throw too much of it away if he only had an ounce and then quit. The
sanitation issue was such a bugaboo becuase I always had to pay attention to
how long a bottle had been out, when we'd made it, etc. With breastfeeding,
as long as she was peeing and pooping I knew she was getting plenty, and I
just didn't worry about it.

The smelly poops were a real shocker to me, too--my daughter's poops as a
newborn smelled faintly of buttered popcorn. Not bad at all. But my foster
son's formula poops... yucky, and they gave him more trouble than I was used
to, too.

Also, with breastfeeding, the whole "Is baby hungry or does baby just want
to suck" thing was a non issue. I just didn't think about it. With my foster
son, it was an elaborate dance of "is the pacifier enough or does he want
the bottle now ".

I was used to hands-free feeding--but I don't believe in propping bottles,
so hands-free feeding was out of the question, always.

There are reasons to formula feed, but honestly, "ease" was not a relevant
issue for us--nursing would have been SO much easier for me if it had been
possible/feasable.

Jenrose

Beth
July 11th 03, 09:44 PM
"KC" > wrote in message
om...
> (H Schinske) wrote in message
> IMHO the reason so many
> people fail at bf is because ff is so temptingly much easier.


Wow . . . after FF my nephews and niece, and giving DS the occasional bottle
of EBM, I can't see what you're saying at all. FF is an expensive, clumsy
PITA.

--
Beth
John & Theodor's mother
b.&d. 12/25/99 & b. 12/3/02

badgirl
July 11th 03, 10:12 PM
"Beth" > wrote in message
...
>
> "KC" > wrote in message
> om...
> > (H Schinske) wrote in message
> > IMHO the reason so many
> > people fail at bf is because ff is so temptingly much easier.
>
>
> Wow . . . after FF my nephews and niece, and giving DS the
occasional bottle
> of EBM, I can't see what you're saying at all. FF is an expensive,
clumsy
> PITA.
>
> --

And it smells terrible, and it stains, and babies IMO have more gass,
upset tummy problems with FF and who the heck wants to get out of bed
in the middle of the night to fix a bottle? I'm lazy, I'd rather just
roll over ;)

Jen

> Beth
> John & Theodor's mother
> b.&d. 12/25/99 & b. 12/3/02
>
>
>

H Schinske
July 11th 03, 11:40 PM
>> (H Schinske) wrote in message
><snip>
>> Surely people who ff complain too, but I kind of wonder if any of the
>> people who think that bf is easier have ever ff

Please be careful when you trim the message and attributions. I didn't write
the above.

--Helen

Jenrose
July 12th 03, 01:10 AM
"H Schinske" > wrote in message
...
> >> (H Schinske) wrote in message
> ><snip>
> >> Surely people who ff complain too, but I kind of wonder if any of the
> >> people who think that bf is easier have ever ff
>
> Please be careful when you trim the message and attributions. I didn't
write
> the above.
>
> --Helen

Sorry! Ooops!
Jenrose

KC
July 12th 03, 07:51 AM
After reading the responses to my post, I have 2 thoughts. One is
that it is not surprising that people on a bf group would think bf
easier, and the second is that I am still very much hoping to get to
the point that I think it is easier than ff.

One person talked about how sleeping is easier when you are bf. That
is my experience too. I am just waiting for the days to get easier
too. I am not sure I will ever be able to move around while bf due to
large breasts.

KC

(KC) wrote in message >...
> (H Schinske) wrote in message
> > But surely many mothers, maybe even most, occasionally have those feelings
> > about a newborn, nursing or not, especially a first baby? I think breastfeeding
> > often gets blamed for a lot of the difficulties of just relating to your baby
> > in the first days and weeks. Breastfeeding is the most obvious thing we're not
> > sure we're doing right, and all the anxieties seem to center on that. Plus most
> > mothers just don't have enough help. (I still scratch my head at people who
> > want to bottlefeed so someone else can help, as if there weren't eight million
> > other things that needed doing besides feeding the baby!)
> >
>
>
> Surely people who ff complain too, but I kind of wonder if any of the
> people who think that bf is easier have ever ff. IME ff is easier
> hands down. I just mixed the water with the formula right when we
> needed a bottle and it was ready. We gave her room temp formula
> rather than warm. My dd drank it soooo much faster than the time I
> spend bf, but we did use a faster flow nipple. As for the bottles we
> had enough that I just did one load of dishes in the evening as usual.
> There was no holding still while a baby was attached to the nipple
> for hours on end with ff. I am all for bf and am bf this time for the
> health benefits, but IME ff was easier. IMHO the reason so many
> people fail at bf is because ff is so temptingly much easier.
>
> KC

Belphoebe
July 12th 03, 02:27 PM
"KC" > wrote in message
om...

> One person talked about how sleeping is easier when you are bf. That
> is my experience too. I am just waiting for the days to get easier
> too. I am not sure I will ever be able to move around while bf due to
> large breasts.

Just to give you some hope: I wear a 40DD, and I'm able to nurse on the
move. It takes some practice (for both halves of the nursing pair!), but
it's possible. :)

Belphoebe

iphigenia
July 12th 03, 03:38 PM
KC wrote:
>> After reading the responses to my post, I have 2 thoughts. One is
>> that it is not surprising that people on a bf group would think bf
>> easier, and the second is that I am still very much hoping to get to
>> the point that I think it is easier than ff.

Yes, but bear in mind that there are women on here who FF prior children. We
aren't all women who've never considered anything but breastmilk for our
babies.

>>
>> One person talked about how sleeping is easier when you are bf. That
>> is my experience too. I am just waiting for the days to get easier
>> too. I am not sure I will ever be able to move around while bf due
>> to large breasts.
>>

I'm a 40DD and never had a problem. I assume you mean that you need to
support your breasts to maintain a proper latch? Older, more experienced
babies tend to be pretty good at latching on and staying latched without as
much help.

--
iphigenia
www.tristyn.net

Jenrose
July 14th 03, 07:47 PM
"KC" > wrote in message
om...
> After reading the responses to my post, I have 2 thoughts. One is
> that it is not surprising that people on a bf group would think bf
> easier, and the second is that I am still very much hoping to get to
> the point that I think it is easier than ff.
>
> One person talked about how sleeping is easier when you are bf. That
> is my experience too. I am just waiting for the days to get easier
> too. I am not sure I will ever be able to move around while bf due to
> large breasts.
>
> KC

I'm a 42 G, H or I depending on where in the lactation or menstrual cycle I
am. I still found BF much easier than FF.

With a good long-fabric sling, I had no problem grocery shopping and nursing
at the same time. Also, nursing clothes helped a lot later on when my
daughter was older, because combined with a bra, they helped keep everything
in place.

I have very long, very droopy breasts (I know... WTMI...) but still found
that breastfeeding on the go just wasn't a big deal. Probably helped that
kiddo was not shy about grabbing on with both hands and pointing the nipple
where she wanted it to go by the time she was 2-3 months old.

Jenrose

Tracy Cramer
July 14th 03, 08:31 PM
On 11 Jul 2003 00:00:04 -0700, (KC) wrote:

>Surely people who ff complain too, but I kind of wonder if any of the
>people who think that bf is easier have ever ff.

With my older 3 kids, I bf at first then switched to formula. IME, bf is
infinitely easier overall. Nothing to buy, nothing to prepare, nothing to tote
along when you go somewhere, nothing to wash. We co-sleep, so I can also add no
getting up in the middle of the night (well, to go get a crying baby; I've been
up plenty of nights for other reasons).

I wish that I'd have known then what I know now. If I could go back and re-do
one thing, it would be to nurse all the kids and never go to formula.


Tracy
======================================
We child proofed our home 3 years ago
and they're still getting in!
======================================

Stephanie and Tim
July 14th 03, 09:36 PM
"Jenrose" > wrote in message
s.com...
>
> "KC" > wrote in message
> om...
> > After reading the responses to my post, I have 2 thoughts. One is
> > that it is not surprising that people on a bf group would think bf
> > easier, and the second is that I am still very much hoping to get to
> > the point that I think it is easier than ff.
> >
> > One person talked about how sleeping is easier when you are bf. That
> > is my experience too. I am just waiting for the days to get easier
> > too. I am not sure I will ever be able to move around while bf due to
> > large breasts.
> >
> > KC
>
> I'm a 42 G, H or I depending on where in the lactation or menstrual cycle
I
> am. I still found BF much easier than FF.
>
> With a good long-fabric sling, I had no problem grocery shopping and
nursing
> at the same time. Also, nursing clothes helped a lot later on when my
> daughter was older, because combined with a bra, they helped keep
everything
> in place.
>
> I have very long, very droopy breasts (I know... WTMI...) but still found
> that breastfeeding on the go just wasn't a big deal. Probably helped that
> kiddo was not shy about grabbing on with both hands and pointing the
nipple
> where she wanted it to go by the time she was 2-3 months old.
>
> Jenrose
>
>

I don't know why this reminded me of this story... But my sister used to
have dreams when her twins were small about trading milk stories with a cow,
and the cow telling her how much easier it was to nurse little cows because
they could latch themselves.

:)

S

KC
July 15th 03, 07:56 AM
I have long droopy breasts too :-) They are mounted low too even
before they got droopy, so they are kind of far down which has been a
problem with my sling and carrier. The main problem has been that my
dd can't stay latched without me holding the breast compressed for her
because the breasts are fat till the end I guess would be the way to
describe it. I had flat nipples when I first tried to bf my first dd.
After much pumping, a little bit of feeding my first and a device
called the nipplette I have them not so flat for this baby, but it is
still hard for my baby to hang onto them the way they are shaped.

Perhaps age will fix it. I do notice that if we are sitting totally
still now she can stay latched whereas before even still we wouldn't
stay latched without compression.

Back to the low and long breasts though, they don't work with my NoJo
sling, but I just finally broke down and ordered the Maya Wrap sling,
so maybe I will eventually get mobile.

Thanks for the hope.

KC

"Jenrose" > wrote in message >...
> I'm a 42 G, H or I depending on where in the lactation or menstrual cycle I
> am. I still found BF much easier than FF.
>
> With a good long-fabric sling, I had no problem grocery shopping and nursing
> at the same time. Also, nursing clothes helped a lot later on when my
> daughter was older, because combined with a bra, they helped keep everything
> in place.
>
> I have very long, very droopy breasts (I know... WTMI...) but still found
> that breastfeeding on the go just wasn't a big deal. Probably helped that
> kiddo was not shy about grabbing on with both hands and pointing the nipple
> where she wanted it to go by the time she was 2-3 months old.
>
> Jenrose

Larry McMahan
July 15th 03, 07:11 PM
KC > writes:

: I have long droopy breasts too :-) ...

: Perhaps age will fix it.

Frequent nursing certainly will! :-)

: Back to the low and long breasts though, they don't work with my NoJo
: sling, but I just finally broke down and ordered the Maya Wrap sling,
: so maybe I will eventually get mobile.

I have always said that neither the Nolo nor the OTSBH are usually that
good until the baby is old enough to hold its own head up. Until then,
a sling like the Maya wrap is much better. (IME)

: Thanks for the hope.

: KC

Good luck,
Larry