Re: How do I know it's time to give up?

[Dawn Lawson]

ted wrote:

> My backache is a whole different thing. Every day I get up with a sore
> back and that pretty much kills my motivation to nurse at nights. I
> dont' know how much longer I can go on like this. When should I just
> bite it and give up nursing? Did I reach a point where I should be
> pumping exclusively? She's a snacker. She doesn't nurse to her heart's
> content. She just nibbles and wakes up after an hour or so. Since we
> nurse lying down, all the bending and twisting is resulting in a
> throbbing backache.

I don't get all the bending and twisting. Why aren't you able to find a
better position?
Can you use pillows or rolled towels?
I night nurse and although I did have some backaches in the earlier days,
I don't anymore.
How do you lie when you are nursing???
And as for nibbling and waking an hour later...is she really awake? Does
she really WANT to nurse at taht point? Maybe you are nursing more than
you need to at night.

Dawn

[Spiralmoons]

My DD who is also 4 months did the same thing. She refused the breast after
a nasty nursing strike, developed nipple preference and I just didn't have
the heart or any tears left to force her back to the breast. She went on
nursing in the bath and at the 5:00am feeding for another month. (Just last
week) when she decided she wanted a bottle in the middle of the night and
now she is on the bottle completely. I still pump for her. I have given her
formula but I figure *some* bm is better than *none* so I don't feel guilty
giving her the "goo"( my nick name for formula 'cause that's what it tastes
like!) until I can get my supply up again. If you have to pump or give
formula, it's ok. I was sooooo distraught. I spent *days* mourning our BFing
relationship. It's really hard to give that up. I found though that she is
at an age where she doesn't care if it's mom's boob or a silicone nipple she
gets food from. She just wants to be held close and snuggled and that's more
important to me than *where* the milk comes out of. FYI, she still holds my
breast when she feeds. I am just as close to her as anyone who breast feeds
exclusively. Chin up! and remember that however you feed her you are still a
great mom and the "only" one for her in her eyes!

s


"ted" > wrote in message
om...
> My now 4 months old DD pretty much quit nursing from me during the
> day. She gets a bottle five times a day (9, 11:30, 3, 5, 7). I give
> her a bath around 8:30pm and take her to bed at 9pm. Since I massage
> her pretty well she falls asleep rightaway. Then wakes up half an hour
> later because she's hungry. She nurses then because it's dark and
> she's on the bed and I'm by her side. That's the only way she nurses.
> When it's totally dark and she's drowsy. I'm thinking if I give her a
> bottle soon after she takes bath, she may sleep a little longer
> because her tummy is full. But I know that means another pumping
> session.
>
> My backache is a whole different thing. Every day I get up with a sore
> back and that pretty much kills my motivation to nurse at nights. I
> dont' know how much longer I can go on like this. When should I just
> bite it and give up nursing? Did I reach a point where I should be
> pumping exclusively? She's a snacker. She doesn't nurse to her heart's
> content. She just nibbles and wakes up after an hour or so. Since we
> nurse lying down, all the bending and twisting is resulting in a
> throbbing backache.
>
> I know some days are good and some are bad. ... as you can see today
> is one of the bad days and I'm not in a real sunshiny mood!
>
> Thanks for reading.

[Astromum]

ted wrote:
> My now 4 months old DD pretty much quit nursing from me during the
> day. She gets a bottle five times a day (9, 11:30, 3, 5, 7).
<snips the details>

I think you first have to take a good look at her schedule and see if
there is a feeding that you could actually nurse instead of bottle feed.
It may be tough for you to stretch your schedule, but it may be better
for her nursing technique. Bottles flow much easier and more constant
than breasts, so she may be getting used to them too much.

> My backache is a whole different thing.

Have you tried exercises? I have a notoriously bad back, but I never had
problems with nursing. I do a bunch of simple exercises to loosen my back
muscles every day and that really helps. The problem with nursing while
lying down is that you are basically immobile. Try to find a position in
which you can support your back better and move your limbs and pelvis. I
was either lying or sitting in a truck load of pillows..

> I dont' know how much longer I can go on like this. When should I just
> bite it and give up nursing?

That's really up to you. But consider your choice from all points of
view: formula feeding is not always easier and definitely not cheap.
Pumping takes a lot of extra time that you are better off spending with
your baby. Perhaps if you try to slowly move to another nursing schedule
and have her nurse more in the evenings you may improve things a lot. I
recall DS cluster feeding between 6 and 8pm. No better way to relax for
me than to pick up DS and nurse when I came home!

> I know some days are good and some are bad. ... as you can see today
> is one of the bad days and I'm not in a real sunshiny mood!

Hang in there! There will be better days, and I am sure you can manage
to find a way to make it work for both of you. Don't give up yet!

--
-- Ilse
mom to Olaf (07/15/2002)
TTC #2
"What's the use of brains if you are a girl?"
Aletta Jacobs, first Dutch woman to receive a PhD

[jake's mom]

Hi Dawn,
How do you know when baby wants to nurse at night? What do you look for to
know he/she wants food vs. just being a noisy sleeper(as most babies are)?
I think I may nurse DS more often than needed at night because of the
frequency of feedings overnight. He is 6 1/2 weeks old and we nurse about
5-6 times overnight(about 8 hour span) Do you wait for yours to cry or
what?

Thanks for any suggestions or advice,
Robin
Jakob (1 1/2 months)
"Dawn Lawson" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> ted wrote:
>
> > My backache is a whole different thing. Every day I get up with a sore
> > back and that pretty much kills my motivation to nurse at nights. I
> > dont' know how much longer I can go on like this. When should I just
> > bite it and give up nursing? Did I reach a point where I should be
> > pumping exclusively? She's a snacker. She doesn't nurse to her heart's
> > content. She just nibbles and wakes up after an hour or so. Since we
> > nurse lying down, all the bending and twisting is resulting in a
> > throbbing backache.
>
> I don't get all the bending and twisting. Why aren't you able to find a
> better position?
> Can you use pillows or rolled towels?
> I night nurse and although I did have some backaches in the earlier days,
> I don't anymore.
> How do you lie when you are nursing???
> And as for nibbling and waking an hour later...is she really awake? Does
> she really WANT to nurse at taht point? Maybe you are nursing more than
> you need to at night.
>
> Dawn
>

[Astromum]

jake's mom wrote:
> Hi Dawn,
> How do you know when baby wants to nurse at night? What do you look for to
> know he/she wants food vs. just being a noisy sleeper(as most babies are)?
> I think I may nurse DS more often than needed at night because of the
> frequency of feedings overnight. He is 6 1/2 weeks old and we nurse about
> 5-6 times overnight(about 8 hour span) Do you wait for yours to cry or
> what?
>

I'm not Dawn, but here's my experience with weaning night nursings. The
first one to go was the 4am feeding. I'd just wake up as soon as I heard
DS and nurse him. Someone pointed out that he might just be awake and not
hungry, so I tried a few nights to wait until he started to sob. Turns out,
he just went back to sleep after babbling for 15 minutes and woke up two
hours later. This was about the age of 6 weeks, and he was having 2-3
feedings overnight.

--
-- Ilse
mom to Olaf (07/15/2002)
TTC #2
"What's the use of brains if you are a girl?"
Aletta Jacobs, first Dutch woman to receive a PhD

[Dawn Lawson]

jake's mom wrote:

> Hi Dawn,
> How do you know when baby wants to nurse at night? What do you look for to
> know he/she wants food vs. just being a noisy sleeper(as most babies are)?

Exactly. ;-)
I found that when DS was just "snacking" or wouldn't latch very well at night
(not strong sucking) if I could rouse myself enough to stop being annoyed and
try adding or removing warmth, that often would settle him.
That said, I went thru a VERY bad spell around 4-5 months where I was not
sleeping AT ALL. Mostly that was me, not him, but I'm no sleep expert!!! :-)

> I think I may nurse DS more often than needed at night because of the
> frequency of feedings overnight. He is 6 1/2 weeks old and we nurse about
> 5-6 times overnight(about 8 hour span) Do you wait for yours to cry or
> what?

Well, in theory, he should be able to go at least as long at night as he does
in the day.
Do you plug him on at every little snuffle and fidget? What if you wait a few
moments, or try other solutions first? (warmth, touching, whatever) What if
you count to 50 or something before you nurse....to give him a chance to
resettle himself?

I hope someone else may chime in here with more (better) advice.

Dawn

[jake's mom]

thanks for the responses. sounds like from what you and Ilse said i need to
wait it out at night. i do tend to "plug him on" (lol) at every sound
during the night probably more for my sake than his. once he starts crying
he is hard to soothe back to sleep! i will try tonight to be more awake and
look for the rooting motions before we try to feed. i need to be more
observant overnight(it's so hard to do when you are in zombie mode!). i
think sometimes i even latch him on without realizing it. if you think of
anything else, please let me know.

thanks so much,

robin
"Dawn Lawson" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> jake's mom wrote:
>
> > Hi Dawn,
> > How do you know when baby wants to nurse at night? What do you look for
to
> > know he/she wants food vs. just being a noisy sleeper(as most babies
are)?
>
> Exactly. ;-)
> I found that when DS was just "snacking" or wouldn't latch very well at
night
> (not strong sucking) if I could rouse myself enough to stop being annoyed
and
> try adding or removing warmth, that often would settle him.
> That said, I went thru a VERY bad spell around 4-5 months where I was not
> sleeping AT ALL. Mostly that was me, not him, but I'm no sleep expert!!!
:-)
>
> > I think I may nurse DS more often than needed at night because of the
> > frequency of feedings overnight. He is 6 1/2 weeks old and we nurse
about
> > 5-6 times overnight(about 8 hour span) Do you wait for yours to cry or
> > what?
>
> Well, in theory, he should be able to go at least as long at night as he
does
> in the day.
> Do you plug him on at every little snuffle and fidget? What if you wait a
few
> moments, or try other solutions first? (warmth, touching, whatever) What
if
> you count to 50 or something before you nurse....to give him a chance to
> resettle himself?
>
> I hope someone else may chime in here with more (better) advice.
>
> Dawn
>
>

[Phoebe & Allyson]

jake's mom wrote:

> How do you know when baby wants to nurse at night?

Caterpillar (5 1/2 weeks) won't latch if she's not hungry
and awake, and is a noisy sleeper, so I've given up trying
to feed her the moment she peeps, which is usually my goal
in the daytime. It took a couple of times of her being
awake enough to cry before I figured out how loud she can
get before it means she's awake and hungry.

> He is 6 1/2 weeks old and we nurse about
> 5-6 times overnight(about 8 hour span)

Wow, that's a lot of eating. Caterpillar normally eats
around 11pm, 3am, 6am, then every 2 hours or so after that.
But I try to stuff her full at night (feed until she
unlatches, offer again until she refuses to open her mouth,
burp, diaper change, feed on the other side until she
unlatches, offer again until she refuses to open her mouth).
During the day, I usually don't offer a second side unless
she obviously want it, and she eats much more frequently.

> Do you wait for yours to cry or what?

She's usually not crying, but is starting to fuss, and can't
be resettled by any other method. She sleeps on Allyson,
who has spent the last 5 weeks shifting position, patting
her and talking to her, offering her a finger to suck, etc.
in an attempt to stretch the time between feedings. We
usually go by "fussing moderately loudly and normally eats
about now" as the guide to hunger.

Phoebe :)

[jake's mom]

he nurses on one side day and night. he has always nursed on one side
except for a couple of instances. he gets what he needs in 5-10 minutes a
session(i have an instantaneous letdown with ample supply). i used to try
to feed him longer but he responds by crying and fidgeting. during the day,
he goes about 2(sometimes .5 to 1-cluster feeds in evening-) hours between
feedings. he does have a couple of longer feeds right before bed(15-20
minutes) so i think i must be responding too quickly overnight. i will try
to wait it out tonight and look for the rooting and sucking before i resort
to feeding.
don't know about the growth spurt because he has done this for weeks now--i
think he eats more in his daytime feedings during his spurts.
i can't remember ever having 3 hours to sleep between feedings!

robin
"Bruce and Jeanne" > wrote in message
...
> jake's mom wrote:
>
> > Hi Dawn,
> > How do you know when baby wants to nurse at night? What do you look for
to
> > know he/she wants food vs. just being a noisy sleeper(as most babies
are)?
> > I think I may nurse DS more often than needed at night because of the
> > frequency of feedings overnight. He is 6 1/2 weeks old and we nurse
about
> > 5-6 times overnight(about 8 hour span) Do you wait for yours to cry or
> > what?
> >
> > Thanks for any suggestions or advice,
> > Robin
> > Jakob (1 1/2 months)
>
> I'm not Dawn, but I also nurse about 4-5 times a night - it's almost
> exactly two hours from start to start of each nursing session (giving me
> about 1.25-1.5 hours to sleep) . If I'm lucky, I'll get 3 hours to
> sleep between 9 pm and midnight.
>
> DS (5 weeks) doesn't necessarily cry. I'll wake up to him rooting around
> or chewing on his fist or my arm. I take that to mean he wants to
> nurse.
> Do you nurse on one side or both overnight? If both, do you have to
> re-wake? How?
>
> By the way, isn't there a growth spurt at 6 weeks? That could be the
> reason for frequent night nursings.
>
> Jeanne

[Irrational Number]

As a follow-on question, Sammy will fuss
and start to cry, usually around 4 or 5 am,
so I feed him. However, he falls asleep
in 5 minutes, so he can't really have been
that hungry. Do I just let him fuss then?

-- Anita --


jake's mom wrote:
> Hi Dawn,
> How do you know when baby wants to nurse at night? What do you look for to
> know he/she wants food vs. just being a noisy sleeper(as most babies are)?
> I think I may nurse DS more often than needed at night because of the
> frequency of feedings overnight. He is 6 1/2 weeks old and we nurse about
> 5-6 times overnight(about 8 hour span) Do you wait for yours to cry or
> what?

[Astromum]

Irrational Number wrote:
> As a follow-on question, Sammy will fuss
> and start to cry, usually around 4 or 5 am,
> so I feed him. However, he falls asleep
> in 5 minutes, so he can't really have been
> that hungry. Do I just let him fuss then?
>

I'd let him fuss for a few minutes, listen if the crying
is really a serious "I'm hungry!" cry, or more the
"I'm lonely and want a hug" cry. It can be hard to tell
the difference at first, but he doesn't seem all that
hungry to me.

Falling asleep can be frightening for babies when they
are alone, but it is something they will eventually have
to learn, unless you decide to co-sleep. They may cry a
bit, but instead of taking him out of the crib right away,
first try to console him by stroking or singing to him.

--
-- Ilse
mom to Olaf (07/15/2002)
TTC #2
"What's the use of brains if you are a girl?"
Aletta Jacobs, first Dutch woman to receive a PhD

[H Schinske]

>Irrational Number wrote:
>> As a follow-on question, Sammy will fuss
>> and start to cry, usually around 4 or 5 am,
>> so I feed him. However, he falls asleep
>> in 5 minutes, so he can't really have been
>> that hungry. Do I just let him fuss then?

Some babies will cry out when they half wake up, or even not waking up at all.
Mine used to do that. I know it wasn't just a midnight hallucination, because
they did it during naps as well. More than once I went in all set to get them
up from naps, to find they were actually still asleep.

I don't know if Sammy is doing that, but you might try just cocking an ear and
waiting a bit to see if he stops.

--Helen