Has anyone ever tried these?

[Marie]

In my neverending quest to find *something* that will increase my milk
supply, I am currently taking: 80mg of domperidone/day, 16 capsules of
Fenugreek/day and 16 capsules of Blessed Thistle/day. <SIGH> All this, and
I'm still oly making *maybe* 1/2 of what I need for my twin boys. While I
can't find anything definitive--I'm not sure I can/should increase my
Fenugreek or Blessed Thistle (if any of you know what the max dosage should
be, please let me know), so I've been trying to find other things I can add
to my regime that may help.

Today I read something that suggested raspberry leaf, fennel, and brewer's
yeast may help. Has anyone had any experience with any of these? What
about Milk Thistle (something else someone recommended)? I'm wondering
about dosage, and any side-effects/interactions I should be worried about.

Any other ideas for increasing supply? The boys *still* haven't latched on,
so I'm struggling to increase through pumping alone.

Actually, that raises another question--even if they don't latch, could it
help supply if they just kinda lie there? I'll put them to my breast and
they'll mouth it/lick it/fall asleep on it--just not latch <DOUBLE SIGH>

TIA

Marie
Chris and Alex--born 04/23/03 @ 31 wks gestational.

[Jolene]

Did they ever latch?

"Marie" > wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...
> In my neverending quest to find *something* that will increase my milk
> supply, I am currently taking: 80mg of domperidone/day, 16 capsules of
> Fenugreek/day and 16 capsules of Blessed Thistle/day. <SIGH> All this,
and
> I'm still oly making *maybe* 1/2 of what I need for my twin boys. While I
> can't find anything definitive--I'm not sure I can/should increase my
> Fenugreek or Blessed Thistle (if any of you know what the max dosage
should
> be, please let me know), so I've been trying to find other things I can
add
> to my regime that may help.
>
> Today I read something that suggested raspberry leaf, fennel, and brewer's
> yeast may help. Has anyone had any experience with any of these? What
> about Milk Thistle (something else someone recommended)? I'm wondering
> about dosage, and any side-effects/interactions I should be worried about.
>
> Any other ideas for increasing supply? The boys *still* haven't latched
on,
> so I'm struggling to increase through pumping alone.
>
> Actually, that raises another question--even if they don't latch, could it
> help supply if they just kinda lie there? I'll put them to my breast and
> they'll mouth it/lick it/fall asleep on it--just not latch <DOUBLE SIGH>
>
> TIA
>
> Marie
> Chris and Alex--born 04/23/03 @ 31 wks gestational.
>
>
>

[Shannon G]

Instead of the capsules, have you tried a tincture? It is infused and much
stronger than the dried, and most likely old, herb? I've had great success
with Nursing Mothers Tincture from kerrysherbals.com. HTH.

Shannon

"Marie" > wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...
> In my neverending quest to find *something* that will increase my milk
> supply, I am currently taking: 80mg of domperidone/day, 16 capsules of
> Fenugreek/day and 16 capsules of Blessed Thistle/day. <SIGH> All this,
and
> I'm still oly making *maybe* 1/2 of what I need for my twin boys. While I
> can't find anything definitive--I'm not sure I can/should increase my
> Fenugreek or Blessed Thistle (if any of you know what the max dosage
should
> be, please let me know), so I've been trying to find other things I can
add
> to my regime that may help.
>
> Today I read something that suggested raspberry leaf, fennel, and brewer's
> yeast may help. Has anyone had any experience with any of these? What
> about Milk Thistle (something else someone recommended)? I'm wondering
> about dosage, and any side-effects/interactions I should be worried about.
>
> Any other ideas for increasing supply? The boys *still* haven't latched
on,
> so I'm struggling to increase through pumping alone.
>
> Actually, that raises another question--even if they don't latch, could it
> help supply if they just kinda lie there? I'll put them to my breast and
> they'll mouth it/lick it/fall asleep on it--just not latch <DOUBLE SIGH>
>
> TIA
>
> Marie
> Chris and Alex--born 04/23/03 @ 31 wks gestational.
>
>

[Truffles]

Larry McMahan wrote:

> Marie > writes:
> : In my neverending quest to find *something* that will increase my milk
> : supply, I am currently taking: 80mg of domperidone/day, 16 capsules of
> : Fenugreek/day and 16 capsules of Blessed Thistle/day. <SIGH> All this, and
> : I'm still oly making *maybe* 1/2 of what I need for my twin boys. While I
> : can't find anything definitive--I'm not sure I can/should increase my
> : Fenugreek or Blessed Thistle (if any of you know what the max dosage should
> : be, please let me know), so I've been trying to find other things I can add
> : to my regime that may help.
>
> : Today I read something that suggested raspberry leaf, fennel, and brewer's
> : yeast may help. Has anyone had any experience with any of these? What
> : about Milk Thistle (something else someone recommended)? I'm wondering
> : about dosage, and any side-effects/interactions I should be worried about.
>
> : Any other ideas for increasing supply? The boys *still* haven't latched on,
> : so I'm struggling to increase through pumping alone.
>
> : Actually, that raises another question--even if they don't latch, could it
> : help supply if they just kinda lie there? I'll put them to my breast and
> : they'll mouth it/lick it/fall asleep on it--just not latch <DOUBLE SIGH>
>
> : TIA
>
> : Marie
> : Chris and Alex--born 04/23/03 @ 31 wks gestational.
>
>
> OK. if they are not latching well, then you must be pumping. What is your
> nursing and pumping schedule. I think you are taking enough herbals, so that
> if you are recieving adequate nursign stimulation you should be producing
> adequate milk.
>
> How well do they latch, if at all? How long do they nurse? How often/many
> times a day do you nurse them? Do you pump? Do you feed them EBM? Do you
> use a lact-aid or SNS? Do you feed by bottle? (If so, get rid of it.)
> How much EBM, and how much formula (if any) do you feed them a day? These
> are the kinds of questions we need detailed answers to do give you any
> useful help.
>
> Now for some other ralated suggestions to increase your supply.
>
> 1. Drink plenty of water. Normally this would mean at least 12 oz (350 ml)
> every 2 hours. Keep a sports bottle by your bed at night. With twins, you
> may want to drink more.
>
> 2. Get plenty of rest. Especially with twins! Nap whenever they do. Don't
> do housework, errands, or cook. Let Dh do it all, of if you can, hire help.
> Spend a much time in bed with the twins as possible. Lot's of skin to skin
> contact, lots of nursing.
>
> 3. Nurse as often as possible. Even if it is only comfort nursing.
>
> These things are just as important as the herbals in increasing supply.
>
> Give us a speedy answer and we will try to offer more help.

Larry, I've suggested the SNS and some of your other suggestions in the
past. She is not nursing and won't ditch the bottles. Just pumping.

Marie, I suggest you check out www.pumpingmoms.org

--
Brigitte aa #2145
edd #3 February 15, 2004
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
~ Harriet Martineau

[iphigenia]

Marie wrote:
>>
>> Today I read something that suggested raspberry leaf, fennel, and
>> brewer's yeast may help. Has anyone had any experience with any of
>> these? What about Milk Thistle (something else someone
>> recommended)? I'm wondering about dosage, and any
>> side-effects/interactions I should be worried about.
>>

Other than what Larry said, which I completely agree with...

Red raspberry leaf is for toning the uterus. It's good for the last
trimester of pregnancy and for alleviating dysmenorrhea. It is not a
galactagogue.

Fennel may have mild galactagogue properties. Its main use is for helping
colicky babies (you drink the tea an hour before nursing).

Brewer's yeast definitely helps. Lots of women have reported increased
production after having a beer, which is made with brewer's yeast.

Milk thistle has been reported to increase supply.

For more information on herbal safety and dosages while BF, see:
http://www.kellymom.com/herbal/index.html

--
iphigenia
www.tristyn.net

[Larry McMahan]

Marie > writes:
: In my neverending quest to find *something* that will increase my milk
: supply, I am currently taking: 80mg of domperidone/day, 16 capsules of
: Fenugreek/day and 16 capsules of Blessed Thistle/day. <SIGH> All this, and
: I'm still oly making *maybe* 1/2 of what I need for my twin boys. While I
: can't find anything definitive--I'm not sure I can/should increase my
: Fenugreek or Blessed Thistle (if any of you know what the max dosage should
: be, please let me know), so I've been trying to find other things I can add
: to my regime that may help.

: Today I read something that suggested raspberry leaf, fennel, and brewer's
: yeast may help. Has anyone had any experience with any of these? What
: about Milk Thistle (something else someone recommended)? I'm wondering
: about dosage, and any side-effects/interactions I should be worried about.

: Any other ideas for increasing supply? The boys *still* haven't latched on,
: so I'm struggling to increase through pumping alone.

: Actually, that raises another question--even if they don't latch, could it
: help supply if they just kinda lie there? I'll put them to my breast and
: they'll mouth it/lick it/fall asleep on it--just not latch <DOUBLE SIGH>

: TIA

: Marie
: Chris and Alex--born 04/23/03 @ 31 wks gestational.


OK. if they are not latching well, then you must be pumping. What is your
nursing and pumping schedule. I think you are taking enough herbals, so that
if you are recieving adequate nursign stimulation you should be producing
adequate milk.

How well do they latch, if at all? How long do they nurse? How often/many
times a day do you nurse them? Do you pump? Do you feed them EBM? Do you
use a lact-aid or SNS? Do you feed by bottle? (If so, get rid of it.)
How much EBM, and how much formula (if any) do you feed them a day? These
are the kinds of questions we need detailed answers to do give you any
useful help.

Now for some other ralated suggestions to increase your supply.

1. Drink plenty of water. Normally this would mean at least 12 oz (350 ml)
every 2 hours. Keep a sports bottle by your bed at night. With twins, you
may want to drink more.

2. Get plenty of rest. Especially with twins! Nap whenever they do. Don't
do housework, errands, or cook. Let Dh do it all, of if you can, hire help.
Spend a much time in bed with the twins as possible. Lot's of skin to skin
contact, lots of nursing.

3. Nurse as often as possible. Even if it is only comfort nursing.

These things are just as important as the herbals in increasing supply.

Give us a speedy answer and we will try to offer more help.

Larry

[Marie]

"Shannon G" > wrote in message
...
> Instead of the capsules, have you tried a tincture? It is infused and
much
> stronger than the dried, and most likely old, herb? I've had great
success
> with Nursing Mothers Tincture from kerrysherbals.com. HTH.

Haven't tried tinctures--mainly 'cause I've only been able to find the
capsules. I'll try your link--thanks :-)

Marie

>
> Shannon
>
> "Marie" > wrote in message
> ble.rogers.com...
> > In my neverending quest to find *something* that will increase my milk
> > supply, I am currently taking: 80mg of domperidone/day, 16 capsules of
> > Fenugreek/day and 16 capsules of Blessed Thistle/day. <SIGH> All this,
> and
> > I'm still oly making *maybe* 1/2 of what I need for my twin boys. While
I
> > can't find anything definitive--I'm not sure I can/should increase my
> > Fenugreek or Blessed Thistle (if any of you know what the max dosage
> should
> > be, please let me know), so I've been trying to find other things I can
> add
> > to my regime that may help.
> >
> > Today I read something that suggested raspberry leaf, fennel, and
brewer's
> > yeast may help. Has anyone had any experience with any of these? What
> > about Milk Thistle (something else someone recommended)? I'm wondering
> > about dosage, and any side-effects/interactions I should be worried
about.
> >
> > Any other ideas for increasing supply? The boys *still* haven't latched
> on,
> > so I'm struggling to increase through pumping alone.
> >
> > Actually, that raises another question--even if they don't latch, could
it
> > help supply if they just kinda lie there? I'll put them to my breast
and
> > they'll mouth it/lick it/fall asleep on it--just not latch <DOUBLE SIGH>
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Marie
> > Chris and Alex--born 04/23/03 @ 31 wks gestational.
> >
> >
>
>

[Marie]

Thanks for the link--it looks like the kind of info I need :-)

Marie

"iphigenia" > wrote in message
...
> Marie wrote:
> >>
> >> Today I read something that suggested raspberry leaf, fennel, and
> >> brewer's yeast may help. Has anyone had any experience with any of
> >> these? What about Milk Thistle (something else someone
> >> recommended)? I'm wondering about dosage, and any
> >> side-effects/interactions I should be worried about.
> >>
>
> Other than what Larry said, which I completely agree with...
>
> Red raspberry leaf is for toning the uterus. It's good for the last
> trimester of pregnancy and for alleviating dysmenorrhea. It is not a
> galactagogue.
>
> Fennel may have mild galactagogue properties. Its main use is for helping
> colicky babies (you drink the tea an hour before nursing).
>
> Brewer's yeast definitely helps. Lots of women have reported increased
> production after having a beer, which is made with brewer's yeast.
>
> Milk thistle has been reported to increase supply.
>
> For more information on herbal safety and dosages while BF, see:
> http://www.kellymom.com/herbal/index.html
>
> --
> iphigenia
> www.tristyn.net
>
>

[Marie]

"Larry McMahan" > wrote in message
...
> Marie > writes:
> : In my neverending quest to find *something* that will increase my milk
> : supply, I am currently taking: 80mg of domperidone/day, 16 capsules of
> : Fenugreek/day and 16 capsules of Blessed Thistle/day. <SIGH> All this,
and
> : I'm still oly making *maybe* 1/2 of what I need for my twin boys. While
I
> : can't find anything definitive--I'm not sure I can/should increase my
> : Fenugreek or Blessed Thistle (if any of you know what the max dosage
should
> : be, please let me know), so I've been trying to find other things I can
add
> : to my regime that may help.
>
> : Today I read something that suggested raspberry leaf, fennel, and
brewer's
> : yeast may help. Has anyone had any experience with any of these? What
> : about Milk Thistle (something else someone recommended)? I'm wondering
> : about dosage, and any side-effects/interactions I should be worried
about.
>
> : Any other ideas for increasing supply? The boys *still* haven't latched
on,
> : so I'm struggling to increase through pumping alone.
>
> : Actually, that raises another question--even if they don't latch, could
it
> : help supply if they just kinda lie there? I'll put them to my breast
and
> : they'll mouth it/lick it/fall asleep on it--just not latch <DOUBLE SIGH>
>
> : TIA
>
> : Marie
> : Chris and Alex--born 04/23/03 @ 31 wks gestational.
>
>
> OK. if they are not latching well, then you must be pumping. What is
your
> nursing and pumping schedule. I think you are taking enough herbals, so
that
> if you are recieving adequate nursign stimulation you should be producing
> adequate milk.

Whenever possible, I pump at least 20 minutes every 2 hours. However, if
the boys and I are alone, and they're needing my attention, I sometimes have
to skip a pump.

>
> How well do they latch, if at all?

Not at all, though we're still trying to teach them.

> How long do they nurse?

They don't nurse, but I try and give them at least an hour or so of breast
time each day.

>How often/many times a day do you nurse them? Do you pump? Do you feed
them EBM?

They each feed about every two-three hours, I pump as often as possible,
they get all the EBM I can produce (about half to 2/3 of what they need)

>Do you use a lact-aid or SNS?

I tried tube feeding--it worked with finger-feeding but took about an hour
for each feeding. When we tried it with the breast, they couldn't get *any*
suction and got nothing from the breast or the tube.

>Do you feed by bottle? (If so, get rid of it.)

And how do my babies eat if I do?

> How much EBM, and how much formula (if any) do you feed them a day?

Between the two of them, they consume about 600-700ml of EBM a day, and
between 300-400ml of formula.

>These are the kinds of questions we need detailed answers to do give you
any
> useful help.
>
> Now for some other ralated suggestions to increase your supply.
>
> 1. Drink plenty of water. Normally this would mean at least 12 oz (350
ml)
> every 2 hours. Keep a sports bottle by your bed at night. With twins,
you
> may want to drink more.

Does it have to be water or does fruitjuice, pop, etc. count?

> 2. Get plenty of rest. Especially with twins! Nap whenever they do.

About once a week, if I'm lucky, they nap at the same time :-}

> Don't do housework, errands, or cook. Let Dh do it all, of if you can,
hire help.

We have some help, but not enough.

> Spend a much time in bed with the twins as possible. Lot's of skin to
skin
> contact, lots of nursing.
> 3. Nurse as often as possible. Even if it is only comfort nursing.

Is it better to do it together or individually? Right now, I try and use it
as one-on-one time.

> These things are just as important as the herbals in increasing supply.
>
> Give us a speedy answer and we will try to offer more help.
>
> Larry
>

[Marie]

"Truffles" > wrote in message
...
> Larry McMahan wrote:
>
> > Marie > writes:
> > : In my neverending quest to find *something* that will increase my milk
> > : supply, I am currently taking: 80mg of domperidone/day, 16 capsules
of
> > : Fenugreek/day and 16 capsules of Blessed Thistle/day. <SIGH> All
this, and
> > : I'm still oly making *maybe* 1/2 of what I need for my twin boys.
While I
> > : can't find anything definitive--I'm not sure I can/should increase my
> > : Fenugreek or Blessed Thistle (if any of you know what the max dosage
should
> > : be, please let me know), so I've been trying to find other things I
can add
> > : to my regime that may help.
> >
> > : Today I read something that suggested raspberry leaf, fennel, and
brewer's
> > : yeast may help. Has anyone had any experience with any of these?
What
> > : about Milk Thistle (something else someone recommended)? I'm
wondering
> > : about dosage, and any side-effects/interactions I should be worried
about.
> >
> > : Any other ideas for increasing supply? The boys *still* haven't
latched on,
> > : so I'm struggling to increase through pumping alone.
> >
> > : Actually, that raises another question--even if they don't latch,
could it
> > : help supply if they just kinda lie there? I'll put them to my breast
and
> > : they'll mouth it/lick it/fall asleep on it--just not latch <DOUBLE
SIGH>
> >
> > : TIA
> >
> > : Marie
> > : Chris and Alex--born 04/23/03 @ 31 wks gestational.
> >
> >
> > OK. if they are not latching well, then you must be pumping. What is
your
> > nursing and pumping schedule. I think you are taking enough herbals, so
that
> > if you are recieving adequate nursign stimulation you should be
producing
> > adequate milk.
> >
> > How well do they latch, if at all? How long do they nurse? How
often/many
> > times a day do you nurse them? Do you pump? Do you feed them EBM? Do
you
> > use a lact-aid or SNS? Do you feed by bottle? (If so, get rid of it.)
> > How much EBM, and how much formula (if any) do you feed them a day?
These
> > are the kinds of questions we need detailed answers to do give you any
> > useful help.
> >
> > Now for some other ralated suggestions to increase your supply.
> >
> > 1. Drink plenty of water. Normally this would mean at least 12 oz (350
ml)
> > every 2 hours. Keep a sports bottle by your bed at night. With twins,
you
> > may want to drink more.
> >
> > 2. Get plenty of rest. Especially with twins! Nap whenever they do.
Don't
> > do housework, errands, or cook. Let Dh do it all, of if you can, hire
help.
> > Spend a much time in bed with the twins as possible. Lot's of skin to
skin
> > contact, lots of nursing.
> >
> > 3. Nurse as often as possible. Even if it is only comfort nursing.
> >
> > These things are just as important as the herbals in increasing supply.
> >
> > Give us a speedy answer and we will try to offer more help.
>
> Larry, I've suggested the SNS and some of your other suggestions in the
> past. She is not nursing and won't ditch the bottles. Just pumping.

Not won't--CAN'T. I would love the boys to learn to bf but I refuse to
starve them to do it. I spent 5.5 weeks visiting them in hospital before I
got them home--I will not risk putting them back in.

>
> Marie, I suggest you check out www.pumpingmoms.org

Thanks for the link--I'll check it out.

Marie

>
> --
> Brigitte aa #2145
> edd #3 February 15, 2004
> http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/
>
> "Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
> ~ Harriet Martineau
>

[Larry McMahan]

Truffles > writes:

: Larry, I've suggested the SNS and some of your other suggestions in the
: past. She is not nursing and won't ditch the bottles. Just pumping.

Oh, well, I see. Sometimes you can't even lead a horse to water. :-(

Larry

[Sue theo b]

Oatmeal, Oatmeal and more Oatmeal. Cherrieos, oatmeal cookies, anything with
oatmeal in it will make more milk. It worked for me. Other than that, lots of
water and lots of help. Have you tried (when you have another helper around to
bottle feed one twin) trading off feeding methods? For instance, twin A gets an
SNS or cup and some boob time while twin B gets bottle fed by your helper. It
may help with the latch training. Good luck. Sue
Tupperware without the party???
Shop online at my website.
http://my.tupperware.com/SueBurton

** remove "spamnot" to reply**

[KC]

Oatmeal. Good luck getting them to the breast. It really does
increase supply. I currently take domperidone, fenugreek, and
oatmeal. Fennel is supposed to be good too. I drink a cup of Mother's
Milk tea here and there which has fennel. I have also heard that
anise may help, so go eat a stick of licorice :-)

KC

"Marie" > wrote in message ogers.com>...
> In my neverending quest to find *something* that will increase my milk
> supply, I am currently taking: 80mg of domperidone/day, 16 capsules of
> Fenugreek/day and 16 capsules of Blessed Thistle/day. <SIGH> All this, and
> I'm still oly making *maybe* 1/2 of what I need for my twin boys. While I
> can't find anything definitive--I'm not sure I can/should increase my
> Fenugreek or Blessed Thistle (if any of you know what the max dosage should
> be, please let me know), so I've been trying to find other things I can add
> to my regime that may help.
>
> Today I read something that suggested raspberry leaf, fennel, and brewer's
> yeast may help. Has anyone had any experience with any of these? What
> about Milk Thistle (something else someone recommended)? I'm wondering
> about dosage, and any side-effects/interactions I should be worried about.
>
> Any other ideas for increasing supply? The boys *still* haven't latched on,
> so I'm struggling to increase through pumping alone.
>
> Actually, that raises another question--even if they don't latch, could it
> help supply if they just kinda lie there? I'll put them to my breast and
> they'll mouth it/lick it/fall asleep on it--just not latch <DOUBLE SIGH>
>
> TIA
>
> Marie
> Chris and Alex--born 04/23/03 @ 31 wks gestational.

[Mary Ann Tuli]

Sue wrote:
> Sorry, I don't mean to lump everyone on this group into one entitiy.

OK apology accepted.

> Many
> are very helpful and supportive. But the two posts that I saw were also
> rude, I thought. I only saw two posts when I responded and both of those
> were very condescending and not helpful to this poor new mom of twins, who
> are premature at that.

Well, if you only saw two posts then you did not get the whole thread.

Mary Ann

> --
> Sue
> mom to three girls
>
> Mary Ann Tuli > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>>Sue wrote:
>>
>>>I'm sorry the group is not being helpful to you when you need it. They
>>
> can
>
>>>be pretty judgmental and think that their way is the only way, but
>>
> please
>
>>>don't let it discourage you. You are doing a great job. Hang in there.
>>>
>>>Have you possibly posted this to misc.kids? There are a couple of mom's
>>
> with
>
>>>twins on that group that might be more help to you. This group is used
>>
> to
>
>>>giving out advice for a singletons and their advice might not help you
>>
> and
>
>>>frustrate you even more.
>>>
>>
>>Sue,
>>I find this response rather rude.
>>I dip in and out of mkb these days so only read the odd post. I've just
>>read this whole thread and while I see three posts which were not
>>helpful, in general there was a LOT of good advice and support.
>>
>>When you say "they" you are bundling everyone in the same boat which
>>simply isn't fair. If you have issue with people who post rude or
>>unhelpful responses, write to *them*.
>>
>>Mary Ann
>>
>
>
>

[Sue]

I'm sorry the group is not being helpful to you when you need it. They can
be pretty judgmental and think that their way is the only way, but please
don't let it discourage you. You are doing a great job. Hang in there.

Have you possibly posted this to misc.kids? There are a couple of mom's with
twins on that group that might be more help to you. This group is used to
giving out advice for a singletons and their advice might not help you and
frustrate you even more.

Oatmeal is also good at increasing supply. Are you drinking enough water and
eating enough during the day?

Also, I have to agree that you need to get the babies to your breast more
often than what you are doing. Basically, you need to try and nurse them
more and more and persevere through this trying time. Can you take them both
to bed with you for a few days and nurse them first and then supplement with
an eye dropper if they haven't latched? I know stuff needs to get done,
maybe the help you do have, can they do the house stuff for you and make
meals for you and get you water while you bed down with the babies? It will
take some time for the babies to get used to latching and eating. The bottle
is easy for them and the breast takes a bit more work. If you wait too long
to get them to the breast though, they will never latch properly and you
will have to continue to pump. If you don't want to do that, then every
feeding try the breast first. Hang in there.
--
Sue
mom to three girl

Marie > wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...
> In my neverending quest to find *something* that will increase my milk
> supply, I am currently taking: 80mg of domperidone/day, 16 capsules of
> Fenugreek/day and 16 capsules of Blessed Thistle/day. <SIGH> All this,
and
> I'm still oly making *maybe* 1/2 of what I need for my twin boys. While I
> can't find anything definitive--I'm not sure I can/should increase my
> Fenugreek or Blessed Thistle (if any of you know what the max dosage
should
> be, please let me know), so I've been trying to find other things I can
add
> to my regime that may help.
>
> Today I read something that suggested raspberry leaf, fennel, and brewer's
> yeast may help. Has anyone had any experience with any of these? What
> about Milk Thistle (something else someone recommended)? I'm wondering
> about dosage, and any side-effects/interactions I should be worried about.
>
> Any other ideas for increasing supply? The boys *still* haven't latched
on,
> so I'm struggling to increase through pumping alone.
>
> Actually, that raises another question--even if they don't latch, could it
> help supply if they just kinda lie there? I'll put them to my breast and
> they'll mouth it/lick it/fall asleep on it--just not latch <DOUBLE SIGH>
>
> TIA
>
> Marie
> Chris and Alex--born 04/23/03 @ 31 wks gestational.
>
>

[iphigenia]

Belphoebe wrote:
>>
>> I read (somewhere!) that it's blessed thistle, rather than milk
>> thistle, that may increase supply.
>>

According to kellymom.com, both seem to be galactagogues.

--
iphigenia
www.tristyn.net

[Belphoebe]

"iphigenia" > wrote in message
...
> Belphoebe wrote:
> >>
> >> I read (somewhere!) that it's blessed thistle, rather than milk
> >> thistle, that may increase supply.
> >>
>
> According to kellymom.com, both seem to be galactagogues.

Ah, okay.

<Emily Latella>Never mind.</Emily Latella>

Belphoebe

[Mary W.]

Marie wrote:

> Any other ideas for increasing supply? The boys *still* haven't latched on,
> so I'm struggling to increase through pumping alone.

Marie,

Hang in there, you are doing great. Exclusively pumping for one is
really hard, let alone trying to keep up with two.

I know you've said you've tried the lactaid, but you may want to
keep trying it. As the boys get bigger they'll get stronger and better
able to produce the suction required. Especially if they are rooting
more now. With my daughter, when we had latch problems in the
very beginning and I was supplementing, I used to give her an ounce
or so of EBM (she was full term), to take the edge off the hunger so she'd
calm down to latch (had quite a temper then, as she does now!).

Keep trying to put them to the breast. Someone around here
got thier baby to latch after a long time (like 4 months? I don't
know, that could have been on pumpmoms group too).

Every drop of BM counts, keep it up!

Mary

[Sue]

Sorry, I don't mean to lump everyone on this group into one entitiy. Many
are very helpful and supportive. But the two posts that I saw were also
rude, I thought. I only saw two posts when I responded and both of those
were very condescending and not helpful to this poor new mom of twins, who
are premature at that.
--
Sue
mom to three girls

Mary Ann Tuli > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Sue wrote:
> > I'm sorry the group is not being helpful to you when you need it. They
can
> > be pretty judgmental and think that their way is the only way, but
please
> > don't let it discourage you. You are doing a great job. Hang in there.
> >
> > Have you possibly posted this to misc.kids? There are a couple of mom's
with
> > twins on that group that might be more help to you. This group is used
to
> > giving out advice for a singletons and their advice might not help you
and
> > frustrate you even more.
> >
>
> Sue,
> I find this response rather rude.
> I dip in and out of mkb these days so only read the odd post. I've just
> read this whole thread and while I see three posts which were not
> helpful, in general there was a LOT of good advice and support.
>
> When you say "they" you are bundling everyone in the same boat which
> simply isn't fair. If you have issue with people who post rude or
> unhelpful responses, write to *them*.
>
> Mary Ann
>

[Sue]

I didn't get the whole thread, but now I see that some other posts have
showed up and are helpful. I jumped the gun, and I am sorry.
--
Sue
mom to three girls

Mary Ann Tuli > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Sue wrote:
> > Sorry, I don't mean to lump everyone on this group into one entitiy.
>
> OK apology accepted.
>
> > Many
> > are very helpful and supportive. But the two posts that I saw were also
> > rude, I thought. I only saw two posts when I responded and both of those
> > were very condescending and not helpful to this poor new mom of twins,
who
> > are premature at that.
>
> Well, if you only saw two posts then you did not get the whole thread.
>
> Mary Ann
>
> > --
> > Sue
> > mom to three girls
> >
> > Mary Ann Tuli > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>
> >>Sue wrote:
> >>
> >>>I'm sorry the group is not being helpful to you when you need it. They
> >>
> > can
> >
> >>>be pretty judgmental and think that their way is the only way, but
> >>
> > please
> >
> >>>don't let it discourage you. You are doing a great job. Hang in there.
> >>>
> >>>Have you possibly posted this to misc.kids? There are a couple of mom's
> >>
> > with
> >
> >>>twins on that group that might be more help to you. This group is used
> >>
> > to
> >
> >>>giving out advice for a singletons and their advice might not help you
> >>
> > and
> >
> >>>frustrate you even more.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Sue,
> >>I find this response rather rude.
> >>I dip in and out of mkb these days so only read the odd post. I've just
> >>read this whole thread and while I see three posts which were not
> >>helpful, in general there was a LOT of good advice and support.
> >>
> >>When you say "they" you are bundling everyone in the same boat which
> >>simply isn't fair. If you have issue with people who post rude or
> >>unhelpful responses, write to *them*.
> >>
> >>Mary Ann
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>

[Larry McMahan]

Marie,

Thanks for your responses. I will try to trim so that I am addressing only
my original questions and your responses.

Marie > writes:

: "Larry McMahan" > wrote in message
: ...

:> OK. if they are not latching well, then you must be pumping. What is
: your
:> nursing and pumping schedule. I think you are taking enough herbals, so
: that
:> if you are recieving adequate nursign stimulation you should be producing
:> adequate milk.

: Whenever possible, I pump at least 20 minutes every 2 hours. However, if
: the boys and I are alone, and they're needing my attention, I sometimes have
: to skip a pump.

This sounds good.

:>
:> How well do they latch, if at all?

: Not at all, though we're still trying to teach them.

How are you trying to teach them? I had a son who was born at 31 weeks
weighing 4 lbs. (but not twins!) He was fed by tube in the hospital,
and we transitioned him directly to the breast. We made sure he never
recieved a bottle to avoid nipple confustion, and it worked. Obviously,
your babies have already recieved bottles, so you don't have the option
of avoiding the nipple confuation entirely. You have to do what you
need to have them 'unlearn' their bad habits if you want to get them
back to the breast. Honestly, this will be much harder, both phycially
and emotionally.

:>Do you pump? Do you feed : them EBM?

: They each feed about every two-three hours, I pump as often as possible,
: they get all the EBM I can produce (about half to 2/3 of what they need)

This is pretty good for exclusive pumping with twins. This kind of
productions gives me some hope that with direct nursing stimulation you
could produce enough to feed them exclusively.

:>Do you use a lact-aid or SNS?

: I tried tube feeding--it worked with finger-feeding but took about an hour
: for each feeding. When we tried it with the breast, they couldn't get *any*
: suction and got nothing from the breast or the tube.

:>Do you feed by bottle? (If so, get rid of it.)

: And how do my babies eat if I do?

I am combining by last two questions and your responses to them, because
I am going to answer them together.

Now lets get down to your question of how do your babies eat if you get rid
of the bottle, since this is the crux of your problem.

The first thing you have to do is to train your babies off of the bottle
nipple, and onto the breast nipple while ensuring that they contine to
get sustenance. Honestly, this will be the hard part. If you thought that
pumping every two hours was work, then for at least the first couple of
weeks, this will be twice the work or more, because having become accustomed
to "lazy feeding" your twins will object vociferously to a change, and will
acquiece only when you insist. This is the key.

The first thing you need to do is discontinue the bottles, and switch to an
artificial feeding method that simulates nursing. This means a Lact-Aid or
SNS. The thing you have to do to make this work is have faith in both your
babies and yourself that you will be able to feed them this way, and that
they will not starve if you make this change. At first, when you try to make
the change, the babies will find the new feeding method enough harder that
they will refuse to feed that way. But they will not starve. When they get
hungry enough they will relent and use the method if you insist. If you want
to successfully get them back to the breast, there is often no other way.
You are going to have to put up with a lot of crying for a day or two, but it
is often the only way to retrain. You may need help from an LC to show you
how to get food down them using the SNS or Lact-Aid.

Once you have successfully gotten them onto the SNS or Lact-Aid, then you
can start trying to do direct nursing. At this point, the direct nursing is
not really more difficult than what they are doing, and it will be easier
to train them to suckle. Once they learn to nurse directly, then you can
start increasing nursign sessions and decreasing pumping sessions.

One additional suggestion for when you start direct nursing. You should
pump or express just until you start a let down, then place the babies on
the breast. Since they are used to "easy flow" this will help the know
that milk will come out of the breast. After you have done this a couple
of times, and they know to associate the breast with milk, then you can
start putting them on the breast before let-down.

:> Now for some other ralated suggestions to increase your supply.
:>
:> 1. Drink plenty of water. Normally this would mean at least 12 oz (350
: ml)
:> every 2 hours. Keep a sports bottle by your bed at night. With twins,
: you
:> may want to drink more.

: Does it have to be water or does fruitjuice, pop, etc. count?

Water is best, but some fruit juice is OK. You should NOT drink caffinated
beverages.

:> 2. Get plenty of rest. Especially with twins! Nap whenever they do.

: About once a week, if I'm lucky, they nap at the same time :-}

In that case, when even one of them naps, then lie down with both, and
get cuddle time with the one that is awake.

:> Don't do housework, errands, or cook. Let Dh do it all, of if you can,
: hire help.

: We have some help, but not enough.

Then just let things go.

:> Spend a much time in bed with the twins as possible. Lot's of skin to
: skin
:> contact, lots of nursing.
:> 3. Nurse as often as possible. Even if it is only comfort nursing.

: Is it better to do it together or individually? Right now, I try and use it
: as one-on-one time.

Hmmm. I would suggest together as much as possible. See nap suggestion above.

Good luck,
hope this helps,
Larry

[Jolene]

"Marie" > wrote in message
ble.rogers.com...
>
> "Jolene" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > Did they ever latch?
>
> Nope :-( But in the past few weeks (since their due date) we've seen more
> rooting reflex than before. I give them each time at the breast whenever
> possible, and they've both started to suck a bit, but so far there's no
real
> suction there. I'm not giving up, but the latest LC told me to come to
> terms with the idea they may never bf properly.
>
> Marie

Has anyone ever mentioned using a supplementer?

[Truffles]

Sue wrote:
> She must have sent in for help when I was on vacation. Sorry. I thought this
> was her first post on the subject. However, I still thought some of the
> replies were rude. At least she is breastfeeding, maybe not from the tap,
> but it is breastmilk. Let us not lose site of what exactly is important.
> Lots of people pump exclusively, including Richard and no one ever said any
> snide remarks to them. So I guess I didn't get the hostility towards a new
> mom with twins trying to do what was best. :o)

There were no snide remarks. I even commended her for pumping.

I think what you are sensing from me is exasperation, not hostility. I
know pumping for twins is hard. I told her so. But I also told her
that the longer the twins are talking milk from a bottle the harder it
will be to get them to the breast. It might not be what she wants to
hear, but it's a sad truth, not hostility.

When a mother of twins posts for advice, I really try and help. I take
time to answer as many questions as I can because I know how difficult
it can be with twins. It was for me. Nursing twins can sometimes pose
difficulties you wouldn't experience with singletons. This is one of
the reasons I still hang around this group. To offer assistance to
mothers of twins.

I know it's not easy. Trust me I know. But all we can do here on this
ng is offer advice based on our experiences and the experiences of
others. If she chooses to ignore that advice and then repeatedly ask
for similar advice, I think it's not unreasonable to expect some people
to feel exasperation.

--
Brigitte aa #2145
edd #3 February 15, 2004
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
~ Harriet Martineau

[Truffles]

Sue wrote:

> I have to admit I have a hard time picking up on mood when in the written form.

It is the bane of newsgroups. Mood is difficult to convey in writing
unless you are very good writer (which I am not). And, I don't think
there are emoticons for every mood. LOL! :-)

--
Brigitte aa #2145
edd #3 February 15, 2004
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
~ Harriet Martineau

[Sue]

I probably indeed read it wrong. I have to admit I have a hard time picking
up on mood when in the written form. Well I hope things go well for her
then. :o)
--
Sue
mom to three girls

Truffles > wrote in message
...
> Sue wrote:
> > She must have sent in for help when I was on vacation. Sorry. I thought
this
> > was her first post on the subject. However, I still thought some of the
> > replies were rude. At least she is breastfeeding, maybe not from the
tap,
> > but it is breastmilk. Let us not lose site of what exactly is important.
> > Lots of people pump exclusively, including Richard and no one ever said
any
> > snide remarks to them. So I guess I didn't get the hostility towards a
new
> > mom with twins trying to do what was best. :o)
>
> There were no snide remarks. I even commended her for pumping.
>
> I think what you are sensing from me is exasperation, not hostility. I
> know pumping for twins is hard. I told her so. But I also told her
> that the longer the twins are talking milk from a bottle the harder it
> will be to get them to the breast. It might not be what she wants to
> hear, but it's a sad truth, not hostility.
>
> When a mother of twins posts for advice, I really try and help. I take
> time to answer as many questions as I can because I know how difficult
> it can be with twins. It was for me. Nursing twins can sometimes pose
> difficulties you wouldn't experience with singletons. This is one of
> the reasons I still hang around this group. To offer assistance to
> mothers of twins.
>
> I know it's not easy. Trust me I know. But all we can do here on this
> ng is offer advice based on our experiences and the experiences of
> others. If she chooses to ignore that advice and then repeatedly ask
> for similar advice, I think it's not unreasonable to expect some people
> to feel exasperation.
>
> --
> Brigitte aa #2145
> edd #3 February 15, 2004
> http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/
>
> "Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
> ~ Harriet Martineau
>