Some opinions on hospital policy, please...

[[email protected]]

Hello, I've been primarily lurking here for the past few years and posted
a couple of times. I'm expecting my first any day now (already 3cm
dilated, but not due until the 7th). I went and did all the classes at my
hospital including breastfeeding, baby care, and prepared childbirth. This
hospital (and the local area) is pretty pro-BF - about 90% of mothers
start BFing in the hospital.

The breastfeeding class was taught by a lactation consultant. The hospital
has a whole team of LCs to help new mothers. She explained the problems
with supplementing and how that could cause supply problems, etc - her
whole lecture pretty much was in sync with what I have learned from
reading this group.

Then, I went to the baby care class. That class was taught by one of the
mother/baby nurses (the ones who care for you after delivery). While she
had BFed her children and was pretty pro-BF, she offered conflicting
information. The one thing that bothered me most was that she said that if
you had a big baby (her definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would not be
enough to satisify them and they would be wailing from hunger. She said
that in these situations they let them sip an ounce of two of formula from
a cup so that they feel full. Another Mom-to-be must of had a problem with
this as well because she asked if they would do this without permission
from the mother. The nurse made some kind of comment like 'you don't have
to do it - but you'll be the one dealing with the starving baby.'

So, I have a few problems with this. First of all, everything I've seen
says that colostrum is plenty of nourishment for your baby over the first
few days until your milk comes in. I can't imagine why an 8 lb baby would
be any different. Plus, if the baby is crying to be fed, shouldn't you
just put him to your breast? It seems like that's probably what he wants
and don't you need the stimulation to help your milk come in and to
determine the supply?

It appears that I have a good chance of having a large baby (DH and I were
both 9 lbs and this one seems on the large side), so I'm afraid that they
are going to try to push the formula thing on me. They seem to think that
since they aren't using a bottle and nipple, it's not a problem. I'm
worried that I'm just going to be so overwhelmed that I'll just follow
anything they say and that might not be the best thing for baby. I just
want to know if I'm right in thinking that this is unnecessary so that I
feel confident when I tell the nurse that I don't want my baby to have any
formula. If it doesn't seem like a big deal to anyone else then I won't
worry about it.

Thanks,
Manda

[Anne Robotti]

On 17 Jul 2003 08:41:10 -0600, wrote:


>Then, I went to the baby care class. That class was taught by one of the
>mother/baby nurses (the ones who care for you after delivery). While she
>had BFed her children and was pretty pro-BF, she offered conflicting
>information. The one thing that bothered me most was that she said that if
>you had a big baby (her definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would not be
>enough to satisify them and they would be wailing from hunger. She said
>that in these situations they let them sip an ounce of two of formula from
>a cup so that they feel full. Another Mom-to-be must of had a problem with
>this as well because she asked if they would do this without permission
>from the mother. The nurse made some kind of comment like 'you don't have
>to do it - but you'll be the one dealing with the starving baby.'

WTF?!

I've had three babies - one over nine pounds, one eight pounds, one
seven and a half. My experiences were as follows:

First of all, by the time Victoria was born, I knew enough not to let
her leave the room. Both previous times, although I specified
breastfeeding, teh nurses had given supplements. That's the best way
to insure that your baby gets no supplements.

Second of all, I made a plan with Victoria that I would take the first
few days and lie in bed and breastfeed and drink water. She fed
constantly those first two days. My milk was in by the time I left the
hospital, and my lochia had all but disappeared! I think some people
equate "eating constantly" with "starving" and I just don't think it's
so! The baby eats, the baby quickly gets hungry, the baby eats again.
That's hardly starving, that's what I still do today!

Plan for a lactation consultant to come in the first day for a while,
so that you can get your latch correct right away. I think it's
discouraging with a big baby if you don't, because the baby eats so
often that latch problems are magnified.


>It appears that I have a good chance of having a large baby (DH and I were
>both 9 lbs and this one seems on the large side), so I'm afraid that they
>are going to try to push the formula thing on me. They seem to think that
>since they aren't using a bottle and nipple, it's not a problem. I'm
>worried that I'm just going to be so overwhelmed that I'll just follow
>anything they say and that might not be the best thing for baby. I just
>want to know if I'm right in thinking that this is unnecessary so that I
>feel confident when I tell the nurse that I don't want my baby to have any
>formula. If it doesn't seem like a big deal to anyone else then I won't
>worry about it.

You know, I've delivered a nine pound baby and it's not easy.
Delivering any baby isn't really what I'd call easy. And if you have
complications (I had a c-section with Brooke) you might very well feel
overwhelmed and frightened and unsure of everything you thought you
knew. I may be alone in this, but I think that one of the keys to
getting off on the right foot with breastfeeding is successful pain
management during labor. I never got on top of the pain with Brooke,
my labor was a horrifying experience which set me up for breastfeeding
problems, post-partum depression and a complete lack of bonding with
her for several weeks. I'm not saying "Get the epidural now, what are
you waiting for?" But the fewer preconceived notions you have about
how you are and aren't going to manage pain, the better off you're
likely to be. My experience only.

Anne

[Astromum]

wrote:
> The one thing that bothered me most was that she said that if
> you had a big baby (her definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would not be
> enough to satisify them and they would be wailing from hunger. She said
> that in these situations they let them sip an ounce of two of formula from
> a cup so that they feel full.

Now there's is nice collection of total bull-s**t! I had an 8lb boy, and he
was exclusively BF from birth to 8m and never ever hungry. The stomach contents
of a newborn are so small that the first day they are satisfied with something
like 7ml of colostrum, the next day it is 15ml, then 30ml. Just take a cup and
measure how little this is. And the best part: your body produces exactly those
amounts of colostrum, increasing each day with the need of your baby. Of course,
if you stuff him full with formula right away, the stomach will expand faster
and they will be hungry for more. Which is exactly why you don't want to
supplement *at all* with newborns. Don't pin me down on the exact numbers,
but it's somewhere near...

DS didn't drink 2oz of EBM until he was 4 weeks old!

> So, I have a few problems with this. First of all, everything I've seen
> says that colostrum is plenty of nourishment for your baby over the first
> few days until your milk comes in. I can't imagine why an 8 lb baby would
> be any different. Plus, if the baby is crying to be fed, shouldn't you
> just put him to your breast? It seems like that's probably what he wants
> and don't you need the stimulation to help your milk come in and to
> determine the supply?

You are absolutely right! IME following your gut feeling always works best.

> I just
> want to know if I'm right in thinking that this is unnecessary so that I
> feel confident when I tell the nurse that I don't want my baby to have any
> formula. If it doesn't seem like a big deal to anyone else then I won't
> worry about it.

You should worry about it and make it absolutely clear that you do not want
*anything* supplemented to the baby unless there is a distinct medical reason.
I've been to a hospital with the policy 'if she doesn't see, she doesn't know
and it doesn't do any harm'. Well, they *know* now I could tell ;)

--
-- Ilse
mom to Olaf (07/15/2002)
TTC #2
"What's the use of brains if you are a girl?"
Aletta Jacobs, first Dutch woman to receive a PhD

[Buzzy Bee]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:40:56 +0100, (Elana) wrote:
but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual!

>Someone a while ago mentioned making a sign to put on the bassinet that
>the baby is in that says No Formula, so there's no way they can say they
>didn't see it.

My Mum did that when my brother was born. Even back in 1977 it was
honoured! I think hers actually said "no bottles" in order to be even
more specific (including sugar water as well).

She'd had them insist on supplementing when I was born because I had
to have eaten x ounces before release and they were weighing me before
and after feeds and d'uh Mum's milk hadn't come in (and it was a week
before Xmas and they wanted us out!). My paediatrician had suggested
the signs to prevent a repeat of my severe milk intolerance with my
brother.

Megan
--
Seoras David Montgomery, 7 May 2003, 17 hours: sunrise to sunset (homebirth)
Seoras' story: http://seoras.farr-montgomery.com

To e-mail use: megan at farr-montgomery dot com

[Mary W.]

wrote:

> So, I have a few problems with this. First of all, everything I've seen
> says that colostrum is plenty of nourishment for your baby over the first
> few days until your milk comes in. I can't imagine why an 8 lb baby would
> be any different. Plus, if the baby is crying to be fed, shouldn't you
> just put him to your breast? It seems like that's probably what he wants
> and don't you need the stimulation to help your milk come in and to
> determine the supply?

Alot of times, with a big baby, they are worried about the glucose level
of baby. I certainly wouldn't supplement based on being large. Check
with your ped what level of glucose they want to supplement at - might
be different from the hospital. Also, try to nurse before supplementing,
colostrum is packed full of what baby needs and is often sufficient to
bringing up the glucose level. If you must supplement because of
low glucose, do *not* use a bottle (learned this the hard way).

Good Luck!

Mary

Oh, and 8 pounds isn't big! Mom to 10lb 5 Oz Emma.

[Elana]

Astromum > wrote:

> You should worry about it and make it absolutely clear that you do not want
> *anything* supplemented to the baby unless there is a distinct medical reason.
> I've been to a hospital with the policy 'if she doesn't see, she doesn't know
> and it doesn't do any harm'. Well, they *know* now I could tell ;)

Yeah, well, that's what my hospital said, and I'm pretty sure Patrick
had some formula when I was knocked out in recovery. So make sure you
put that sign in the bassinet!! :-)

E

[iphigenia]

Mary W. wrote:
>> Check with your ped what level of glucose they want to supplement at
>> - might be different from the hospital. Also, try to nurse before
>> supplementing, colostrum is packed full of what baby needs and is
>> often sufficient to bringing up the glucose level.

Definitely - DS was born with low blood sugar, undoubtedly because I'd had
to fast all day. They wanted to supplement. I nursed him and it brought it
right up. IF they're concerned about low blood sugar, I'd insist that they
let you nurse him first THEN check his blood sugar.

And furthering the big baby database - DS was 9lbs 10oz and did fine from
birth to past a year on breastmilk alone.

--
iphigenia
www.tristyn.net

[Esther]

three of my four were > 8# babies (the other one was early)

they were all perfectly happy with colostrum

they roomed in (mostly... I did send them to the nursery
for short stints), and nursed a lot.

As my mama is fond of saying "Air doesn't refuse to carry
words." Just cuz the nurse says it, doesn't make it so.

Esther

[Karen Askey]

You are so lucky to find this out NOW when you can still gather information and
advice rather than find out as they are putting the formula into him or after
it has been said and done!

Others have offered great advice, such as the sign in the bassinette, rooming
in, and nursing first if they are concerned about blood sugar. The only thing
I have to add is that you might want to bring it to the attention of the charge
nurse that this bad advice is being distributed in the childbirth/childcare
class. Not sure if you're up for that, or if you'd even be taken seriously,
but it may be worth a shot.

Have a great birth and a wonderful nursing relationship!

koa
Still nursing James, 02/06/01
EP'ing for Joey 04/02/03 (BCP)

[JoelnCaryn]

>o, I have a few problems with this. First of all, everything I've seen
>says that colostrum is plenty of nourishment for your baby over the first
>few days until your milk comes in. I can't imagine why an 8 lb baby would
>be any different. Plus, if the baby is crying to be fed, shouldn't you
>just put him to your breast? It seems like that's probably what he wants
>and don't you need the stimulation to help your milk come in and to
>determine the supply?

Yes. Room in with the baby and just nurse it when it asks, and you should be
fine. :-)

My mom had an 8 pound 12 ounce, an 8 pound 5 ounce, and a 10 pound 9 ounce baby
after I was old enough to remember, and I don't remember any of them wailing
from hunger while the milk came in. It sounds like the nurse in question was
thinking of big babies *with scheduled feeds* to me.

--
Caryn
mama to Oscar, 10/20/02

[Joy]

>The one thing that bothered me most was that
> she said that if you had a big baby (her
> definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would
> not be enough to satisify them and they would
> be wailing from hunger. She said that in these
> situations they let them sip an ounce of two of
> formula from a cup so that they feel full.
> Another Mom-to-be must of had a problem
> with this as well because she asked if they
> would do this without permission from the
> mother. The nurse made some kind of
> comment like 'you don't have to do it - but
> you'll be the one dealing with the starving
> baby.'

Heh... My 6 lb 10 oz daughter ate around the clock. Twenty minutes
after eating she acted like she had a giant, empty hole in her stomach
begging to be filled. My 10 lb 3 oz son never acted like he was
starving. He actually got quite frustrated because I was trying to feed
him more than he wanted to. I was a worried he wasn't getting enough,
and he told me!

Joy


http://community.webtv.net/joybelle15/ROSESCLUBFOOTPAGE

[Larry McMahan]

writes:
: Hello, I've been primarily lurking here for the past few years and posted
: a couple of times. I'm expecting my first any day now (already 3cm
: dilated, but not due until the 7th). I went and did all the classes at my
: hospital including breastfeeding, baby care, and prepared childbirth. This
: hospital (and the local area) is pretty pro-BF - about 90% of mothers
: start BFing in the hospital.

: The breastfeeding class was taught by a lactation consultant. The hospital
: has a whole team of LCs to help new mothers. She explained the problems
: with supplementing and how that could cause supply problems, etc - her
: whole lecture pretty much was in sync with what I have learned from
: reading this group.

: Then, I went to the baby care class. That class was taught by one of the
: mother/baby nurses (the ones who care for you after delivery). While she
: had BFed her children and was pretty pro-BF, she offered conflicting
: information. The one thing that bothered me most was that she said that if
: you had a big baby (her definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would not be
: enough to satisify them and they would be wailing from hunger.

This is bull****. We had a 10 lb 6 oz baby, and this was NO problem.

: She said
: that in these situations they let them sip an ounce of two of formula from
: a cup so that they feel full. Another Mom-to-be must of had a problem with
: this as well because she asked if they would do this without permission
: from the mother. The nurse made some kind of comment like 'you don't have
: to do it - but you'll be the one dealing with the starving baby.'

I would suggest stating up front "No formula, no sugar water." This whole
exchange raises a question in may head: Do they allow rooming in, or do
they send them to the nursery. If latter, I would be wary.

: So, I have a few problems with this. First of all, everything I've seen
: says that colostrum is plenty of nourishment for your baby over the first
: few days until your milk comes in. I can't imagine why an 8 lb baby would
: be any different. Plus, if the baby is crying to be fed, shouldn't you
: just put him to your breast? It seems like that's probably what he wants
: and don't you need the stimulation to help your milk come in and to
: determine the supply?

Duh! You are right!

: It appears that I have a good chance of having a large baby (DH and I were
: both 9 lbs and this one seems on the large side), so I'm afraid that they
: are going to try to push the formula thing on me. They seem to think that
: since they aren't using a bottle and nipple, it's not a problem. I'm
: worried that I'm just going to be so overwhelmed that I'll just follow
: anything they say and that might not be the best thing for baby. I just
: want to know if I'm right in thinking that this is unnecessary so that I
: feel confident when I tell the nurse that I don't want my baby to have any
: formula. If it doesn't seem like a big deal to anyone else then I won't
: worry about it.

This is one of the (many) reasons that we homebirthed!

Good luck,
Larry

[Irish Marie]

"Anne Robotti" > wrote in message
...
> On 17 Jul 2003 08:41:10 -0600, wrote:
>
>
> First of all, by the time Victoria was born, I knew enough not to let
> her leave the room. Both previous times, although I specified
> breastfeeding, teh nurses had given supplements. That's the best way
> to insure that your baby gets no supplements.
>

Is there any come back with the hospital authorities if this happens, I am
shocked that they could totally ignore your wishes!
Marie

[[email protected]]

Karen Askey > wrote:

> Others have offered great advice, such as the sign in the bassinette, rooming
> in, and nursing first if they are concerned about blood sugar. The only thing
> I have to add is that you might want to bring it to the attention of the charge
> nurse that this bad advice is being distributed in the childbirth/childcare
> class. Not sure if you're up for that, or if you'd even be taken seriously,
> but it may be worth a shot.

I did note on the evaluation form for the baby care class that information
was being given out that conflicted with the breastfeeding class. Don't
know if it will help, but it can't hurt.

Manda

[jennifer]

>I did note on the evaluation form for the baby care class that information
>was being given out that conflicted with the breastfeeding class. Don't
>know if it will help, but it can't hurt.

Actually, you may want to let the LC who taught the first class know what crap
the other nurse is teaching in the second class. Perhaps the LC will be more
invested in updating old/wrong info within her own hospital.

Best of luck, and kudos to you for knowing more about breastfeeding than the OB
nurse. =)

jennifer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Necromancer with a chaser of werewolf; a drink to make any vampire giddy."
Jean-Claude, Master Vampire
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I hugged you until you were not frozen anymore."
~Dana Scully to Fox Mulder

[ted]

My dd weighed 5 lb 5 oz and they gave her formula because she didn't
poop after one day. I didn't know better.

Be ready and be knowledgeable about what they are going to do. Hope it
works out better for you.

wrote in message >...
> Hello, I've been primarily lurking here for the past few years and posted
> a couple of times. I'm expecting my first any day now (already 3cm
> dilated, but not due until the 7th). I went and did all the classes at my
> hospital including breastfeeding, baby care, and prepared childbirth. This
> hospital (and the local area) is pretty pro-BF - about 90% of mothers
> start BFing in the hospital.
>
> The breastfeeding class was taught by a lactation consultant. The hospital
> has a whole team of LCs to help new mothers. She explained the problems
> with supplementing and how that could cause supply problems, etc - her
> whole lecture pretty much was in sync with what I have learned from
> reading this group.
>
> Then, I went to the baby care class. That class was taught by one of the
> mother/baby nurses (the ones who care for you after delivery). While she
> had BFed her children and was pretty pro-BF, she offered conflicting
> information. The one thing that bothered me most was that she said that if
> you had a big baby (her definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would not be
> enough to satisify them and they would be wailing from hunger. She said
> that in these situations they let them sip an ounce of two of formula from
> a cup so that they feel full. Another Mom-to-be must of had a problem with
> this as well because she asked if they would do this without permission
> from the mother. The nurse made some kind of comment like 'you don't have
> to do it - but you'll be the one dealing with the starving baby.'
>
> So, I have a few problems with this. First of all, everything I've seen
> says that colostrum is plenty of nourishment for your baby over the first
> few days until your milk comes in. I can't imagine why an 8 lb baby would
> be any different. Plus, if the baby is crying to be fed, shouldn't you
> just put him to your breast? It seems like that's probably what he wants
> and don't you need the stimulation to help your milk come in and to
> determine the supply?
>
> It appears that I have a good chance of having a large baby (DH and I were
> both 9 lbs and this one seems on the large side), so I'm afraid that they
> are going to try to push the formula thing on me. They seem to think that
> since they aren't using a bottle and nipple, it's not a problem. I'm
> worried that I'm just going to be so overwhelmed that I'll just follow
> anything they say and that might not be the best thing for baby. I just
> want to know if I'm right in thinking that this is unnecessary so that I
> feel confident when I tell the nurse that I don't want my baby to have any
> formula. If it doesn't seem like a big deal to anyone else then I won't
> worry about it.
>
> Thanks,
> Manda

[Marnie]

> wrote in message ...


> Then, I went to the baby care class. That class was taught by one of the
> mother/baby nurses (the ones who care for you after delivery). While she
> had BFed her children and was pretty pro-BF, she offered conflicting
> information. The one thing that bothered me most was that she said that if
> you had a big baby (her definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would not be
> enough to satisify them and they would be wailing from hunger.

Mine were both over 9.5 pounds. I don't remember them crying in the hospital
at all, except while being weighed, measured and cleaned that first time.

But ... Baby might be wailing. This is what babies do sometimes! Wouldn't
you, upon leaving that nice warm, soft, secure, dark place? When your new
baby cries, offer her/him the breast. Hold him/her. Test out Daddy's
shoulder, too, if it's available. Offer the breast. Stroll the halls. Pat
her back. Repeat all steps as necessary.

Put a sign in the bassinet that says no formula. Keep the baby with you...
although sometimes nurses think they are doing you a favor by keeping baby
in the nursery so you can rest. Heck, I didn't come here to rest! I came to
have a baby!

Have your strongest "no formula" voice ready

She said
> that in these situations they let them sip an ounce of two of formula from
> a cup so that they feel full. Another Mom-to-be must of had a problem with
> this as well because she asked if they would do this without permission
> from the mother. The nurse made some kind of comment like 'you don't have
> to do it - but you'll be the one dealing with the starving baby.'

A nice little scare tactic. Baby will not be starving.

> So, I have a few problems with this. First of all, everything I've seen
> says that colostrum is plenty of nourishment for your baby over the first
> few days until your milk comes in. I can't imagine why an 8 lb baby would
> be any different. Plus, if the baby is crying to be fed, shouldn't you
> just put him to your breast? It seems like that's probably what he wants
> and don't you need the stimulation to help your milk come in and to
> determine the supply?

Yes, yes, yes and yes. You see, you didn't need her advice, anyway! :)

> It appears that I have a good chance of having a large baby (DH and I were
> both 9 lbs and this one seems on the large side), so I'm afraid that they
> are going to try to push the formula thing on me. They seem to think that
> since they aren't using a bottle and nipple, it's not a problem. I'm
> worried that I'm just going to be so overwhelmed that I'll just follow
> anything they say and that might not be the best thing for baby. I just
> want to know if I'm right in thinking that this is unnecessary so that I
> feel confident when I tell the nurse that I don't want my baby to have any
> formula. If it doesn't seem like a big deal to anyone else then I won't
> worry about it.

Yes you are right in thinking this is unnecessary. And yes, you might be
overwhelmed and as a result let them do what they want. The important thing
is, you are thinking about this now, and can prepare yourself in case they
offer/encourage/insist on things you don't want. Nursery nurses are very
nice people who deal with so many babies ... nurses often turn, by rote or
by policy or by miseducation, to what seems like an easy solution, be it for
them or for you. It's your baby. You get to decide what goes into their
mouths.

(BTW, if your baby is big, they might also pull the
low-blood-sugar-must-have-formula trick. You might want to google this
newsgroup about that, too).

Good luck!
--
Marnie
--

[Iuil]

"Irish Marie" wrote
> >
>
> Is there any come back with the hospital authorities if this happens, I am
> shocked that they could totally ignore your wishes!
> Marie

Mine were ignored in the Rotunda. The excuse given was that they felt it
was medically necessary (and this is a maternity hospital striving for the
WHO certification!). I wasn't in a fit state to argue at the time.

Jean


--
"And he said:
Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of
Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, and
though they are with you, yet they belong not to you." Khalil Gibran

Return address is unread. Replies to <firstnamelastname> @eircom.net.

[Irish Marie]

"Iuil" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Irish Marie" wrote
> > >
> >
> > Is there any come back with the hospital authorities if this happens, I
am
> > shocked that they could totally ignore your wishes!
> > Marie
>
> Mine were ignored in the Rotunda. The excuse given was that they felt it
> was medically necessary (and this is a maternity hospital striving for the
> WHO certification!). I wasn't in a fit state to argue at the time.
>
/shakes head :-(
Did you ever consider any comeback complaints on them?
Marie

[DGoree]

wrote,

<<The one thing that bothered me most was that she said that if
you had a big baby (her definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would not be
enough to satisify them and they would be wailing from hunger. She said
that in these situations they let them sip an ounce of two of formula from
a cup so that they feel full.>>

OK, this is totally stupid.

My babies were 8 lbs 10 oz, 8 lbs even, and 9 lbs 5 oz. Not one was "wailing
from hunger." Not one needed to be supplemented at the hospital. And they all
had gained weight *over* their birthweight at their two-week visits.

My advice to you is that if you must deliver at this particular hospital,
assign your husband to stay with your baby AT ALL TIMES. When the baby goes to
the nursery, your husband goes too. That way nothing can be done to your baby
w/o your knowledge or permission. (Make sure your husband is on the same page
as you regarding the importance of getting off to a good start in
breastfeeding.)

Good luck. I think you are going to need it.

Mary Ellen
William (8)
Matthew (6)
Margaret (1)

[Iuil]

"Irish Marie" wrote
> > > Is there any come back with the hospital authorities if this happens,
I
> am
> > > shocked that they could totally ignore your wishes!
> > > Marie
> >
> > Mine were ignored in the Rotunda. The excuse given was that they felt
it
> > was medically necessary (and this is a maternity hospital striving for
the
> > WHO certification!). I wasn't in a fit state to argue at the time.
> >
> /shakes head :-(
> Did you ever consider any comeback complaints on them?
> Marie

Only recently. I need to get hold of the charts before I do anything
though.

The problem wasn't the hospital policy, that couldn't be faulted. But
individuals interpreted the policy in a different manner to that intended
and by doing so caused a lot of damage.

Jean


--
"And he said:
Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of
Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, and
though they are with you, yet they belong not to you." Khalil Gibran

Return address is unread. Replies to <firstnamelastname> @eircom.net.

[Irish Marie]

"Iuil" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Irish Marie" wrote
> > > > Is there any come back with the hospital authorities if this
happens,
> I
> > am
> > > > shocked that they could totally ignore your wishes!
> > > > Marie
> > >
> > > Mine were ignored in the Rotunda. The excuse given was that they felt
> it
> > > was medically necessary (and this is a maternity hospital striving for
> the
> > > WHO certification!). I wasn't in a fit state to argue at the time.
> > >
> > /shakes head :-(
> > Did you ever consider any comeback complaints on them?
> > Marie
>
> Only recently. I need to get hold of the charts before I do anything
> though.
>
> The problem wasn't the hospital policy, that couldn't be faulted. But
> individuals interpreted the policy in a different manner to that intended
> and by doing so caused a lot of damage.
>
In these type of cases though that's nearly always the problem?! I reckon
that hospital policies are lip-service most of the time.
Having read through those bf books I'm now convinced that the nurses that
told me Ciarán was latching on correctly were misinforming me, it's weird
the way reading through the books have triggered memories and I do remember
being concerned that I wasn't latching him on right. The descriptions I
have read as to how to latch are totally different to how I did it.
/shrug
Just got to try harder.
I really hope that you can achieve something with the Rotunda.
Good luck
Marie

[Michelle J. Haines]

In article >,
says...
>
> Alot of times, with a big baby, they are worried about the glucose level
> of baby. I certainly wouldn't supplement based on being large. Check
> with your ped what level of glucose they want to supplement at - might
> be different from the hospital. Also, try to nurse before supplementing,
> colostrum is packed full of what baby needs and is often sufficient to
> bringing up the glucose level. If you must supplement because of
> low glucose, do *not* use a bottle (learned this the hard way).

My most recent daughter did have to be supplemented because of
glucose level. It was SO low that she was extremely hard to arouse
and didn't nurse very effectively. The nurse supplemented her with a
little sugar water given through a syringe, Theona slept another hour
or so, and when she woke up she practically sucked my nipple off.

So, that's our experience. :)

Michelle
Flutist

--
In my heart. By my side.
Never apart. AP with Pride!
Katrina Marie (10/19/96)
Xander Ryan (09/22/98 - 02/23/99)
Gareth Xander (07/17/00)
Zachary Mitchell (01/12/94, began fostering 09/05/01)
Theona Alexis (06/03/03)

[Stephanie and Tim]

"Anne Robotti" > wrote in message
...
> On 17 Jul 2003 08:41:10 -0600, wrote:
>
>
> >Then, I went to the baby care class. That class was taught by one of the
> >mother/baby nurses (the ones who care for you after delivery). While she
> >had BFed her children and was pretty pro-BF, she offered conflicting
> >information. The one thing that bothered me most was that she said that
if
> >you had a big baby (her definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would not
be
> >enough to satisify them and they would be wailing from hunger. She said
> >that in these situations they let them sip an ounce of two of formula
from
> >a cup so that they feel full. Another Mom-to-be must of had a problem
with
> >this as well because she asked if they would do this without permission
> >from the mother. The nurse made some kind of comment like 'you don't have
> >to do it - but you'll be the one dealing with the starving baby.'
>
> WTF?!
>
> I've had three babies - one over nine pounds, one eight pounds, one
> seven and a half. My experiences were as follows:
>
> First of all, by the time Victoria was born, I knew enough not to let
> her leave the room. Both previous times, although I specified
> breastfeeding, teh nurses had given supplements. That's the best way
> to insure that your baby gets no supplements.
>
> Second of all, I made a plan with Victoria that I would take the first
> few days and lie in bed and breastfeed and drink water. She fed
> constantly those first two days. My milk was in by the time I left the
> hospital, and my lochia had all but disappeared! I think some people
> equate "eating constantly" with "starving" and I just don't think it's
> so! The baby eats, the baby quickly gets hungry, the baby eats again.
> That's hardly starving, that's what I still do today!
>
> Plan for a lactation consultant to come in the first day for a while,
> so that you can get your latch correct right away. I think it's
> discouraging with a big baby if you don't, because the baby eats so
> often that latch problems are magnified.
>
>
> >It appears that I have a good chance of having a large baby (DH and I
were
> >both 9 lbs and this one seems on the large side), so I'm afraid that they
> >are going to try to push the formula thing on me. They seem to think that
> >since they aren't using a bottle and nipple, it's not a problem. I'm
> >worried that I'm just going to be so overwhelmed that I'll just follow
> >anything they say and that might not be the best thing for baby. I just
> >want to know if I'm right in thinking that this is unnecessary so that I
> >feel confident when I tell the nurse that I don't want my baby to have
any
> >formula. If it doesn't seem like a big deal to anyone else then I won't
> >worry about it.
>
> You know, I've delivered a nine pound baby and it's not easy.
> Delivering any baby isn't really what I'd call easy. And if you have
> complications (I had a c-section with Brooke) you might very well feel
> overwhelmed and frightened and unsure of everything you thought you
> knew. I may be alone in this, but I think that one of the keys to
> getting off on the right foot with breastfeeding is successful pain
> management during labor. I never got on top of the pain with Brooke,
> my labor was a horrifying experience which set me up for breastfeeding
> problems, post-partum depression and a complete lack of bonding with
> her for several weeks.

I never thought of it this way, but I agree. If you are shell shocked about
the labor experience, you cannot get on with the baby experience.

> I'm not saying "Get the epidural now, what are
> you waiting for?"


From everything I have read, it's about education, education, education.
Lots of folks manage the pain with other things. But I would tend to agree
with you that preparation is very important.


> But the fewer preconceived notions you have about
> how you are and aren't going to manage pain, the better off you're
> likely to be. My experience only.
>
> Anne

[Stephanie and Tim]

"Irish Marie" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Anne Robotti" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 17 Jul 2003 08:41:10 -0600, wrote:
> >
> >
> > First of all, by the time Victoria was born, I knew enough not to let
> > her leave the room. Both previous times, although I specified
> > breastfeeding, teh nurses had given supplements. That's the best way
> > to insure that your baby gets no supplements.
> >
>
> Is there any come back with the hospital authorities if this happens, I am
> shocked that they could totally ignore your wishes!
> Marie
>
>


Law suit. That is why you have to get the birth wishes IN THE CHART. Chart
is law. Even then, a law suit would be a tad daft in this case unless it
somehow wound up being a landmark case. But in any event, hospitals are
afraid of lawsuits.

S

[JoAnna]

> It appears that I have a good chance of having a large baby (DH and I were
> both 9 lbs and this one seems on the large side), so I'm afraid that they
> are going to try to push the formula thing on me. They seem to think that
> since they aren't using a bottle and nipple, it's not a problem. I'm
> worried that I'm just going to be so overwhelmed that I'll just follow
> anything they say and that might not be the best thing for baby. I just
> want to know if I'm right in thinking that this is unnecessary so that I
> feel confident when I tell the nurse that I don't want my baby to have any
> formula. If it doesn't seem like a big deal to anyone else then I won't
> worry about it.
>
> Thanks,
> Manda

my DS was 10lbs 7oz and did great bf-ing. he went to 18.5 months. never a
drop of formula. My new DD was 10lbs 5oz and is doing nursing great!! at 4
weeks she is over 13-1/2lbs. i was really ticked off in the hospital when
they gave her an oz of formula without asking me first!! they said her
bloodsugar was low...i threw a fit!! of course i was hormonal at the time
but you should make it known to the nursery that you don't want *any*
formula given without your consent first. (if that's your desire..)

i would say it is individual - if you have a supply problem or something,
that would be different.
good luck to you...
JoAnna
(lousy typer with baby on lap...)

[K.B.]

When I had my son 3 months ago he was 7 pounds 12 ounces. He was a little
early at 36 weeks. His sugar kept on dropping. They gave him a bottle
without asking me because it got to low. I was upset at first because I was
afraid it would affect his nursing. Plus they gave him a milk based formula
and milk allergies run in my family. He was nursing constantly and was not
satisfied with the colostrum. He was constantly on my breast. I understand
that he needed some formula to keep his sugar up. Once my milk came in he
did fine. We were both so happy.
Kris
> wrote in message ...
> Hello, I've been primarily lurking here for the past few years and posted
> a couple of times. I'm expecting my first any day now (already 3cm
> dilated, but not due until the 7th). I went and did all the classes at my
> hospital including breastfeeding, baby care, and prepared childbirth. This
> hospital (and the local area) is pretty pro-BF - about 90% of mothers
> start BFing in the hospital.
>
> The breastfeeding class was taught by a lactation consultant. The hospital
> has a whole team of LCs to help new mothers. She explained the problems
> with supplementing and how that could cause supply problems, etc - her
> whole lecture pretty much was in sync with what I have learned from
> reading this group.
>
> Then, I went to the baby care class. That class was taught by one of the
> mother/baby nurses (the ones who care for you after delivery). While she
> had BFed her children and was pretty pro-BF, she offered conflicting
> information. The one thing that bothered me most was that she said that if
> you had a big baby (her definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would not be
> enough to satisify them and they would be wailing from hunger. She said
> that in these situations they let them sip an ounce of two of formula from
> a cup so that they feel full. Another Mom-to-be must of had a problem with
> this as well because she asked if they would do this without permission
> from the mother. The nurse made some kind of comment like 'you don't have
> to do it - but you'll be the one dealing with the starving baby.'
>
> So, I have a few problems with this. First of all, everything I've seen
> says that colostrum is plenty of nourishment for your baby over the first
> few days until your milk comes in. I can't imagine why an 8 lb baby would
> be any different. Plus, if the baby is crying to be fed, shouldn't you
> just put him to your breast? It seems like that's probably what he wants
> and don't you need the stimulation to help your milk come in and to
> determine the supply?
>
> It appears that I have a good chance of having a large baby (DH and I were
> both 9 lbs and this one seems on the large side), so I'm afraid that they
> are going to try to push the formula thing on me. They seem to think that
> since they aren't using a bottle and nipple, it's not a problem. I'm
> worried that I'm just going to be so overwhelmed that I'll just follow
> anything they say and that might not be the best thing for baby. I just
> want to know if I'm right in thinking that this is unnecessary so that I
> feel confident when I tell the nurse that I don't want my baby to have any
> formula. If it doesn't seem like a big deal to anyone else then I won't
> worry about it.
>
> Thanks,
> Manda
>

[Sarajoyo]

wrote in message >...
> Hello, I've been primarily lurking here for the past few years and posted
> a couple of times. I'm expecting my first any day now (already 3cm
> dilated, but not due until the 7th). I went and did all the classes at my
> hospital including breastfeeding, baby care, and prepared childbirth. This
> hospital (and the local area) is pretty pro-BF - about 90% of mothers
> start BFing in the hospital.
>
> The breastfeeding class was taught by a lactation consultant. The hospital
> has a whole team of LCs to help new mothers. She explained the problems
> with supplementing and how that could cause supply problems, etc - her
> whole lecture pretty much was in sync with what I have learned from
> reading this group.
>
This sounds like good news, and it very well may be. However, I know
people whose hospitals have appeared to be BF-friendly that have
turned out to be otherwise. So just because they say something, don't
let your guard down.

> Then, I went to the baby care class. That class was taught by one of the
> mother/baby nurses (the ones who care for you after delivery). While she
> had BFed her children and was pretty pro-BF, she offered conflicting
> information. The one thing that bothered me most was that she said that if
> you had a big baby (her definition was over 8 lbs), colostrum would not be
> enough to satisify them and they would be wailing from hunger. She said
> that in these situations they let them sip an ounce of two of formula from
> a cup so that they feel full. Another Mom-to-be must of had a problem with
> this as well because she asked if they would do this without permission
> from the mother. The nurse made some kind of comment like 'you don't have
> to do it - but you'll be the one dealing with the starving baby.'
>
This is just baloney. My baby was 8 lbs. 11 oz., and she has never
had a drop of formula, and before about 8 months, nothing but my milk
straight from me, including sugar water, bottles of EBM, or pacifiers.
And she certainly was not "starving" at any point, nor was she
screaming from hunger. We started nursing very shortly after birth,
and especially in the first few weeks, any time she seemed hungry at
all, I put her to my breast and let her nurse as long as she wanted,
making sure to maintain a good latch. Colostrum was certainly enough
for her -- before we left the birth center (when she was about 8
*hours* old), she had already made at least one, maybe two (I can't
remember exactly), dirty diapers, and her meconium was totally out of
her system by about 24 hours after birth. My milk was fully in by
about 72 hours after birth. At her 3-day checkup, she had only
dropped 7 ounces (which seems a pretty average amount, especially for
a fairly large baby), and she had surpassed her birthweight by her
10-day checkup. Per the birth center's instructions (they send stable
moms and babies home within 12 hours of birth, so they keep close tabs
on mom and baby for a few days), we kept track of wet and dirty
diapers and feedings for a few days, and she nursed quite frequently
in the first few days, with a long stretch of about 5 hours at night.
(That was her own choosing; she was nursing 12+ times during the day
and making plenty of output, so we let her sleep -- the midwives and
pediatrician said that was fine. If Baby's not gaining or nursing as
well, 5 hours is a lot to let a newborn go without eating.) She never
screamed for hunger or seemed unsatisfied with colostrum; she was
quite pleasant and calm. :)

We planned (and had) an out-of-hospital birth, but in our bag in case
of emergency transfer to the hospital, we had a sign that stated
boldly, "I am a breastfed baby. PLEASE DO NOT offer me formula,
bottles, pacifiers, or water. My mother will be happy to feed and
comfort me herself." Yellow sign, 8x11, with red letters -- I wasn't
taking any chances. Our birth plan also stated that we were not
allowing formula, and that she was not to be separated from me. If
she had needed to be separated from me, my DH would have accompanied
her at all times, and he knew not to allow formula. If the
glucose/low blood sugar thing had come up, I would have requested to
nurse first and then check the blood sugar; most likely colostrum
would have done the trick, but I would have okayed sugar water far
before formula (and I was adamant about not giving either one). I
expect that with the next baby, we'll have another non-hospital,
uncomplicated birth, but we will be putting explicit directions
forbidding formula in the birth plan. Stick to your principles;
they're giving you bad advice. If they say the baby needs formula,
ask exactly why it's needed, and suggest that you nurse the baby
first, and then they see if something else really is needed. Ask for
another opinion if necessary. Colostrum is all the vast majority (I
hesitate to say "all" because I don't know about all special cases) of
newborns need; if they needed more than that, moms would make more
than that sooner than the typical 3 days it takes for a first-time
mom's milk to come in.

-Sara:)
Mommy to a 16-month-old walking, talking, climbing, running, laughing,
wonderful nurse-a-holic daughter

[Sue]

Yep it would be a nine pounder and she was also tested for hypoglycemia, but
she wasn't low and I didn't get any flack about giving sugar water or
formula.
--
Sue
mom to three girls

Hillary Israeli > wrote in message
...
> In >,
> Sue > wrote:
>
> *Hi Manda,
> *
> *Congratulations on your upcoming new arrival.
> *
> *Yes, the information you received is not accurate. I had an 8 lb 16 oz
baby
>
> Wouldn't that be a nine pounder, then?
>
> My son was 8 lbs 15 oz, and my hospital's policy was to test all babies 9
> lbs and over for hypoglycemia. They decided he was close enough to be
> tested (protocol violation!) and he tested low (allegedly. I had them
> repeat it on a different machine because I didn't believe the result [it
> was really really dangerously low IMO] and it was significantly higher!
> But long story short they insisted I give him some formula rather than
> nurse him. They were going to forcibly remove him to the NICU and put him
> on an IV dextrose drip if I did not, so, you can imagine I gave in and
> gave him the formula.
>
> I wrote a very strongly worded letter to the hospital after that. My OB
> totally couldn't believe the way they handled it, either, btw.
>
> --
> hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
> "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
> not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[[email protected]]

Thank you all for your opinions. It seems that I'm basically on the right
track with what I'm thinking. I'll have to spend a little time making sure
DH understands how important this is so that he'll be able to fend off
formula-wielding nurses as well.

Manda