Things to think of before you get married again..
 

"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
teachrmama wrote:

[bigotry deleted]

It is obvious to me that your bigotry is so clouding your judgment as to
make reasoned discourse impossible.

Have a nice day.

Bigotry? Because I don't agree with you that for a woman, everything that
happens after sex is a consequence of sex? Well, Fred, I don't agree with
you. The pregnancy is a consequenc--after that everything is a CHOICE.
Maybe you should take your bigotry meter in for a tune-up--and recheck
yourself on it after it is readjusted.

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
teachrmama wrote:

Second question: If it is reasonable for a man to know *all* the
potential consequences of his actions, is it any less reasonable
for women to also know, which negates abortion on demand as a
reasonable response to accidental pregnancy?
Your bigotry is getting in the way again.

Abortion *is* one of the potential consequences.

No it isn't!

Sure it is! Your bigotry is distorting your understanding of the
nature of consequences.

Pregnancy can be a consequence of having sex.

And abortion can be a consequence of pregnancy. Doesn't have to be,
but it can be. It's one a of a range of possible consequences of
pregnancy, others of which are adoption and carrying to term. All are
consequences.


Another choice is legal abandonment. All the post-conception choices are
available to women while none are available to men so why are choices he
is not allowed to make a consequence to the man? Fact is, they aren't.
Sex may cause a pregnancy. Until a pregnancy occurs, both are equal in
deciding 1) to abstain from sex; 2) use contraception; 3) or do nothing,
hoping no pregnancy will occur. After pregnancy, the man has no choices
except those given by the woman and in fact, he may not even be aware a
pregnancy occurred. She is not even legally required to inform him.

If your bigotry were not clouding your judgment, you'd know that.

And if he opposes abortion, then he had better be careful not to
contribute to the conditions where abortion becomes a possible
consequence. He can do that by keeping it in his pants. He can do that
by sheathing it in a condom. He can do that by ... wait for it ...
being responsible. What he can't do is to leave his semen lying around
where it can cause who knows what consequences, then disavow any and
all responsibility for those consequences, as in the sanctimonious
statement that I read from time to time, something like "her body, her
choice, her responsibility", to which I say, "His semen, his choice,
his responsibility."

If men had the same 'outs' as women, then it would be equal. What you
are still doing is ascribing responsibility to men and absolving women
for the same condition that is caused by willing action by both. What
you are doing is giving women rights that are denied to men.


How much is a condom?
Less than a dollar; how reliable are they?
If you're concerned, then be responsible in your area of
responsibility, because, at the end of the day, you are responsible
for where your semen ends up, because it's *your* semen. If you
don't want it to be somewhere, don't put it there.

And if it his semen, then 50% of the product is also his. So 50/50
joint custody should be the norm---not the CP/NCP nonsense we have
today.

I agree. Both parties are responsible for their actions.

With different rights and responsibilities? Hardly.
Phil #3

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
teachrmama wrote:

[bigotry deleted]

It is obvious to me that your bigotry is so clouding your judgment as
to make reasoned discourse impossible.

Have a nice day.

Translation: I've been spanked and now must tuck my tail between my legs
and run away.
Typical action for feminists, even male feminists.
Phil #3

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

Phil wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Phil wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Andre Lieven wrote:
"Tracy" ) writes:
"Gini" wrote in message
news:v25Vg.2469$6S2.1287@trndny02...
wrote
.............................
Deary, a vasectomy is cheaper than a month of child support. If
you
don't want to breed, don't have sex with a fertile woman,
==
And how is he to know when she is fertile?
Isn't a vasectomy only cheaper than a month of child support if
child support is more than a vasecotmy? How much is a vasectomy?
How much is a tubal ligation ?
Here's something interesting:

"The cost of vasectomy is typically 3 to 4 times less than the cost
of tubal ligation. Although prices vary, regionally, vasectomy costs
generally range from about two hundrend fifty to one thousand
dollars, while the cost of tubal ligation often begin at about one
thousand dollars and may go as high as twenty-five hundred dollars.
The cost difference is mainly due to the fact of where each
procedure is performed; an office procedure vs. a hospital
procedure."

http://womenshealth.about.com/cs/ste...zhisorhe_3.htm

But it's not really about cost, is it?

It's about taking responsibility.
Apparently, it's about applying responsibility to only men as noted
in your next statement.
Your bigotry is showing. But on we go ...

Equality is bigotry???

You aren't talking about equality. You are talking about inequality, as
in assigning responsibility to one in a matter where it is properly
assigned to both.

And let's face it, he's responsible for where his semen ends up, and
in this day and age, I don't think it's reasonable for him to say
that he didn't know *all* of the potential consequences of his
actions. So here's a question:
Another question: If men are responsible for their semen, do women
have any responsibility for allowing it near their egg?
Sure. Everyone is responsible in their areas of responsibility.

What you can't do is to hang all responsibility on one of the sexes.

So when an accidental pregnancy occurs ...

What do you mean by "accidental pregnancy"?

... tell me again how it is the sole
responsibility of the man ...

Never said it was. What I said, which you have quoted above, is that
"Everyone is responsible in their areas of responsibility." But I guess
your knee-jerk bigotry let you ignore that.

as in "And let's face it, he's responsible for
where his semen ends up..."

Well, isn't he?

I eagerly await your answer to this question.

... as if the woman has no responsibility in the
matter.

Oh, she has her responsibility in the matter, too. Never said she
didn't. (See above) But there are men out there who claim to have no
responsibility whatsoever, and that bothers me. They make sanctimonious
statements something like "her body, her choice, her responsibility",
when it's also "his semen, his choice, his responsibility". But they are
so blinded by bigotry and bitterness that they have (conveniently?)
forgotten that essential fact.

Abortion *is* one of the potential consequences.

...for the woman. How does this involve a man before pregnancy?

So this man gets to thinking about the potential consequences of
spreading his semen hither and yon, and he realizes that one of those
potential consequences might be an unwanted pregnancy, for which he
would be at least partially responsibility because, after all, it's "his
semen, his choice, his responsibility", and one of the potential
consequences of that unwanted pregnancy might be an abortion, for which
he would also be at least partly responsible, because if there were no
unwanted pregnancy in the first place, there would be no need for an
abortion in the second place.

Spread your semen hither and yon and you are responsible for the
consequences of your actions. Somebody else might share that
responsibility, but that does not negate your responsibility. It just
doesn't.

FYI, I am sterile by choice because there are so many idiots making
nonsense into law like making man solely responsible for pregnancy.

I think that it is sad that you have chosen sterilization out of fear,
rather than out of a sense of responsibility. I guess that it is a
matter of being able to be as emotionally irresponsible as possible
without having to worry about the consequences. Women as objects and
that sort of thing. But do note this: I knew a guy whose wife got
pregnant *after* the vasectomy. Turned out that he had more than one set
of tubes. Uncommon, but it does occur. You might want to keep that in
mind ...

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

Phil wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
teachrmama wrote:

Second question: If it is reasonable for a man to know *all* the
potential consequences of his actions, is it any less reasonable
for women to also know, which negates abortion on demand as a
reasonable response to accidental pregnancy?
Your bigotry is getting in the way again.

Abortion *is* one of the potential consequences.
No it isn't!
Sure it is! Your bigotry is distorting your understanding of the
nature of consequences.

Pregnancy can be a consequence of having sex.
And abortion can be a consequence of pregnancy. Doesn't have to be,
but it can be. It's one a of a range of possible consequences of
pregnancy, others of which are adoption and carrying to term. All are
consequences.


Another choice is legal abandonment. All the post-conception choices are
available to women while none are available to men so why are choices he
is not allowed to make a consequence to the man?

Because he is responsible for where his semen ends up.

"His semen, his choice, his responsibility."

Sex may cause a pregnancy. Until a pregnancy occurs, both are equal in
deciding 1) to abstain from sex; 2) use contraception; 3) or do nothing,
hoping no pregnancy will occur. After pregnancy, the man has no choices
except those given by the woman and in fact, he may not even be aware a
pregnancy occurred. She is not even legally required to inform him.

He should have thought of that before the fact. He should have been
responsible before the fact, because he sure as hell is gonna have to
own up to his responsibilities after the fact. And even if someone else
was not as responsible as she might have been, that does not serve to
negate his responsibility in the matter.

"His semen, his choice, his responsibility."

If your bigotry were not clouding your judgment, you'd know that.

And if he opposes abortion, then he had better be careful not to
contribute to the conditions where abortion becomes a possible
consequence. He can do that by keeping it in his pants. He can do that
by sheathing it in a condom. He can do that by ... wait for it ...
being responsible. What he can't do is to leave his semen lying around
where it can cause who knows what consequences, then disavow any and
all responsibility for those consequences, as in the sanctimonious
statement that I read from time to time, something like "her body, her
choice, her responsibility", to which I say, "His semen, his choice,
his responsibility."

If men had the same 'outs' as women, then it would be equal.

You are confusing equality with sameness, a tactic frequently used to
evade responsibility.

Why am I not surprised? That, after all, is what your entire argument is
all about.

Pathetic.

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

Phil wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
teachrmama wrote:

[bigotry deleted]

It is obvious to me that your bigotry is so clouding your judgment as
to make reasoned discourse impossible.

Have a nice day.

Translation: I've been spanked and now must tuck my tail between my legs
and run away.

I don't waste my time on the irrational. That one is irrational.

I haven't made up my mind about you yet.

I think I'll base my decision on whether or not you acknowledge that men
are responsible for their semen. You know, "his semen, his choice, his
responsibility." Given your own decisions in that regard, I cannot
imagine you disagreeing with that, but this desire of you to lay all of
the responsibility on women does make me wonder, so we'll just have to
wait and see.

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Phil wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
teachrmama wrote:

Second question: If it is reasonable for a man to know *all* the
potential consequences of his actions, is it any less reasonable for
women to also know, which negates abortion on demand as a reasonable
response to accidental pregnancy?
Your bigotry is getting in the way again.

Abortion *is* one of the potential consequences.
No it isn't!
Sure it is! Your bigotry is distorting your understanding of the nature
of consequences.

Pregnancy can be a consequence of having sex.
And abortion can be a consequence of pregnancy. Doesn't have to be, but
it can be. It's one a of a range of possible consequences of pregnancy,
others of which are adoption and carrying to term. All are consequences.


Another choice is legal abandonment. All the post-conception choices are
available to women while none are available to men so why are choices he
is not allowed to make a consequence to the man?

Because he is responsible for where his semen ends up.

"His semen, his choice, his responsibility."

Sex may cause a pregnancy. Until a pregnancy occurs, both are equal in
deciding 1) to abstain from sex; 2) use contraception; 3) or do nothing,
hoping no pregnancy will occur. After pregnancy, the man has no choices
except those given by the woman and in fact, he may not even be aware a
pregnancy occurred. She is not even legally required to inform him.

He should have thought of that before the fact. He should have been
responsible before the fact, because he sure as hell is gonna have to own
up to his responsibilities after the fact. And even if someone else was
not as responsible as she might have been, that does not serve to negate
his responsibility in the matter.

"His semen, his choice, his responsibility."

If your bigotry were not clouding your judgment, you'd know that.

And if he opposes abortion, then he had better be careful not to
contribute to the conditions where abortion becomes a possible
consequence. He can do that by keeping it in his pants. He can do that
by sheathing it in a condom. He can do that by ... wait for it ... being
responsible. What he can't do is to leave his semen lying around where
it can cause who knows what consequences, then disavow any and all
responsibility for those consequences, as in the sanctimonious statement
that I read from time to time, something like "her body, her choice, her
responsibility", to which I say, "His semen, his choice, his
responsibility."

If men had the same 'outs' as women, then it would be equal.

You are confusing equality with sameness, a tactic frequently used to
evade responsibility.

And you, Fred, are totally *dismissing* WOMEN'S responsibilities! I am a
woman, and I find it demeaning that you keep harping on what MEN should do,
but not a hint about how WOMEN should handle their responibilities in the
same situation. Everything a woman does after the sex act is a consequence
of where that mean old man left his semen. Nonsense! Or maybe I'm just
reading you wrong--why don't you clearly delineate what the woman's
responsibilities are after the consequence of pregnancy becomes an issue.

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
teachrmama wrote:

[bigotry deleted]

It is obvious to me that your bigotry is so clouding your judgment as to
make reasoned discourse impossible.

Have a nice day.

Bigotry? Because I don't agree with you that for a woman, everything that
happens after sex is a consequence of sex? Well, Fred, I don't agree with
you. The pregnancy is a consequenc--after that everything is a CHOICE.
Maybe you should take your bigotry meter in for a tune-up--and recheck
yourself on it after it is readjusted.

It's more hypocrisy than bigotry.

Usually the feminists are not satisfied with just equal opportunity, i.e.
the ability to create a child. The feminists are also obsessed with equal
outcomes, i.e. quotes where men and women are represented 50/50.

When the Harvard University President suggested women had a lower interest
in mathematics the feminists went ballistic because he was only talking
about equal opportunity and not about equal outcomes.

When the discussion is about post-conception choices the feminists reverse
their argument and go ballistic when men want to expand equal opportunity
and also include equal outcomes.

One thing you can always count on from feminists and their sympathizers is
they will have a situational argument and ignore the hypocrisy of what they
are saying.

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

"teachrmama" wrote
.............................
And you, Fred, are totally *dismissing* WOMEN'S responsibilities! I am a
woman, and I find it demeaning that you keep harping on what MEN should
do, but not a hint about how WOMEN should handle their responibilities in
the same situation. Everything a woman does after the sex act is a
consequence of where that mean old man left his semen. Nonsense! Or
maybe I'm just reading you wrong--why don't you clearly delineate what the
woman's responsibilities are after the consequence of pregnancy becomes an
issue.
==
A ride to the CSE office? (Because she's *owed* it, of course.)

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

Gini wrote:
"teachrmama" wrote
............................
And you, Fred, are totally *dismissing* WOMEN'S responsibilities! I am a
woman, and I find it demeaning that you keep harping on what MEN should
do, but not a hint about how WOMEN should handle their responibilities in
the same situation. Everything a woman does after the sex act is a
consequence of where that mean old man left his semen. Nonsense! Or
maybe I'm just reading you wrong--why don't you clearly delineate what the
woman's responsibilities are after the consequence of pregnancy becomes an
issue.
==
A ride to the CSE office? (Because she's *owed* it, of course.)


I guess that the matter is best explained by reference to the theme of
the game Fable: "For every choice, a consequence."

So he chooses to spread his semen hither and yon, and she chooses to let
him spread it in her. And let's say that the consequence is pregnancy.
Now there are other choices to be made, in this case by her, and from
those choices will spring consequences in turn.

Had there been no pregnancy, the consequences resulting therefrom would
not have occurred, because the choices resulting therefrom would not
have had to be made. And had he not spread his semen around, or had she
chosen not to let him spread his semen in her, there would have been no
pregnancy.

Yes, she contributed to that pregnancy. But so did he, and attempts to
deny that fact with sanctimonious bleatings to the effect of "her body,
her choice, her responsibility" are simply not valid.

Yes, he does not have input into certain downstream
choices/consequences. That's unfortunate, but it does not absolve him
from taking at least some responsibility for the consequences of his
behavior in spreading his semen hither and yon, including downstream
consequences not of his choosing, for at the end of the day it's "his
semen, his choice, his responsibility."

Abortion? Without an unwanted pregnancy, there is no abortion. And
without his semen, there is no unwanted pregnancy. "His semen, his
choice, his responsibility."

Child support? Without a pregnancy, there is no child to support. And
without his semen, there is no pregnancy. "His semen, his choice, his
responsibility."

What, I want to know, is so damned bad about suggesting that people take
responsibility?