Things to think of before you get married again..
"Fred" wrote ..................... What, I want to know, is so damned bad about suggesting that people take responsibility? == Not at all--In fact we agree. She had the responsibility to not have sex when she was ovulating and had the responsibility to know when she is ovulating and the responsibility to tell him when she was ovulating. Apparently, she failed to do so. What we seem to have (systemically, in our society) is a failure to compel women to accept responsibility for their actions and decisions and we them condemn men for not anticipating her lack of responsibility. I am tired of our society treating women like helpless dependents of the state and of man. It has led to abbhorent behavior by women and is being swept under the rug at the expense of children. For instance, are you aware that mothers are responsible for 2/3 of child abuse cases and that the bio father is the *least* likely family member to abuse his children? |
Things to think of before you get married again..
Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote .................... What, I want to know, is so damned bad about suggesting that people take responsibility? == Not at all--In fact we agree. She had the responsibility to not have sex when she was ovulating and had the responsibility to know when she is ovulating and the responsibility to tell him when she was ovulating. Apparently, she failed to do so. What we seem to have (systemically, in our society) is a failure to compel women to accept responsibility for their actions and decisions and we them condemn men for not anticipating her lack of responsibility. I am tired of our society treating women like helpless dependents of the state and of man. It has led to abbhorent behavior by women and is being swept under the rug at the expense of children. For instance, are you aware that mothers are responsible for 2/3 of child abuse cases and that the bio father is the *least* likely family member to abuse his children? Got any cites to back that up? Sounds like you made it up. |
Things to think of before you get married again..
"Fred" wrote in message . net... Gini wrote: "teachrmama" wrote ............................ And you, Fred, are totally *dismissing* WOMEN'S responsibilities! I am a woman, and I find it demeaning that you keep harping on what MEN should do, but not a hint about how WOMEN should handle their responibilities in the same situation. Everything a woman does after the sex act is a consequence of where that mean old man left his semen. Nonsense! Or maybe I'm just reading you wrong--why don't you clearly delineate what the woman's responsibilities are after the consequence of pregnancy becomes an issue. == A ride to the CSE office? (Because she's *owed* it, of course.) I guess that the matter is best explained by reference to the theme of the game Fable: "For every choice, a consequence." So he chooses to spread his semen hither and yon, and she chooses to let him spread it in her. And let's say that the consequence is pregnancy. Now there are other choices to be made, in this case by her, and from those choices will spring consequences in turn. Had there been no pregnancy, the consequences resulting therefrom would not have occurred, because the choices resulting therefrom would not have had to be made. And had he not spread his semen around, or had she chosen not to let him spread his semen in her, there would have been no pregnancy. Yes, she contributed to that pregnancy. But so did he, and attempts to deny that fact with sanctimonious bleatings to the effect of "her body, her choice, her responsibility" are simply not valid. Yes, he does not have input into certain downstream choices/consequences. That's unfortunate, but it does not absolve him from taking at least some responsibility for the consequences of his behavior in spreading his semen hither and yon, including downstream consequences not of his choosing, for at the end of the day it's "his semen, his choice, his responsibility." Abortion? Without an unwanted pregnancy, there is no abortion. And without his semen, there is no unwanted pregnancy. "His semen, his choice, his responsibility." Child support? Without a pregnancy, there is no child to support. And without his semen, there is no pregnancy. "His semen, his choice, his responsibility." What, I want to know, is so damned bad about suggesting that people take responsibility? PLEASE pay better attention, Fred! You have never heard me deny the responsibility of either parent--never! What I AM saying is that WOMEN also need to be held responsible! BOTH parties are resposible, and BOTH should have both RIGHTS and RESPONSIBILITIES! Both mother and father should have the wonderful joy of raising the child, and both mother and father should pay for it--as co-parents, not as one parent and one walking ATM. The woman had sex just as surely as the man did. What I am tired of is having the blessibng of raising the child treated as HER "consequence" and the responsibility of paying for it treated as HIS "consequence." Her egg-her resposibility, his semen-his responsibility---no problem with me. So please, Fred, tell me what you see as the woman's responsibility when an unexpected pregnancy occurs. Tell me if you think she is equally responsibile in all the same ways as a man is--or if you go along with the woman gets the child and man pays for it system now in place. |
Things to think of before you get married again..
Nearl J Icarus wrote:
says... hostage to a family court's will. How did we ever go from the model 50's family to the highly dysfunctional relationships of today? Its the same difference between fantasy and reality. I'm a product of that "model 50's family." IMHO, the fallacy of that "model 50's family" is what lead to your "highly dysfunctional realtionships of today." Back then they pretended everything was hunky dory. Today we know better. If you want the glory back, join Bill and stick your head in the sand. No, we'd rather join you here, with all the single and no parent homes of today). Clearly, clearly, we have made "capital" gains, and tremendous progress. Hey - pass over that key (latchkey), will ya?? I lost mine, and can't get in. |
Things to think of before you get married again..
"Bill in Co." wrote Gini wrote: .................................... For instance, are you aware that mothers are responsible for 2/3 of child abuse cases and that the bio father is the *least* likely family member to abuse his children? Got any cites to back that up? Sounds like you made it up. == It does, doesn't it? That's because it is shocking in light of what we always hear. But, you can find the data on the US Dept. of Justice website. Yep, it's right there-- lots of other places, too. This is really no secret. You can also google acs for my other posts a years or so ago on this data as there are several citations there. |
Things to think of before you get married again..
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Things to think of before you get married again..
Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote .................... What, I want to know, is so damned bad about suggesting that people take responsibility? == Not at all--In fact we agree. She had the responsibility to not have sex when she was ovulating and had the responsibility to know when she is ovulating and the responsibility to tell him when she was ovulating. Apparently, she failed to do so. What we seem to have (systemically, in our society) is a failure to compel women to accept responsibility for their actions and decisions and we them condemn men for not anticipating her lack of responsibility. I don't think that it is an either/or situation. Both parties bear a responsibility. What I object to are the representations to the effect that one party is solely responsible to the exclusion of the other. Think about it: some men use sanctimonious statements such as "her body, her choice, her responsibility" to evade their own responsibilities. I know this because those men conspicuously evade my statement, "his semen, his choice, his responsibility." What I'm trying to discuss is taking responsibility. What most are trying to discuss is evading their own responsibility. And the responsibility that most seem to be wanting to evade is financial responsibility. I am tired of our society treating women like helpless dependents of the state and of man. It has led to abbhorent behavior by women and is being swept under the rug at the expense of children. The problem is that women, having been treated badly by man for a rather long time, now feel justified in treating men badly in turn. This, of course, does not resolve the issue; rather, it perpetuates the issue. For instance, are you aware that mothers are responsible for 2/3 of child abuse cases and that the bio father is the *least* likely family member to abuse his children? That does not surprise me, given the legal construct of the child as property. The one who has custody of the property is the one most likely to abuse it. That's especially true if the pregnancy/child was not wanted in the first place. |
Things to think of before you get married again..
"Fred" wrote ............................................... What I'm trying to discuss is taking responsibility. == What you appear to be discussing is *men* taking responsibility for women. == .................................................. ... The problem is that women, having been treated badly by man for a rather long time, now feel justified in treating men badly in turn. == It isn't just women treating men badly--It is systemic--in society and in family court, at the *expense* of the children whom it purports to be acting in the best interest of. == .................................. That does not surprise me, given the legal construct of the child as property. The one who has custody of the property is the one most likely to abuse it. That's especially true if the pregnancy/child was not wanted in the first place. == Yet--rarely is the child placed in the custody of the father who is often the better parent. == |
Things to think of before you get married again..
I know why fred made he swallows the seman
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Things to think of before you get married again..
"Fred" wrote in message . net... Gini wrote: "Fred" wrote .................... What, I want to know, is so damned bad about suggesting that people take responsibility? == Not at all--In fact we agree. She had the responsibility to not have sex when she was ovulating and had the responsibility to know when she is ovulating and the responsibility to tell him when she was ovulating. Apparently, she failed to do so. What we seem to have (systemically, in our society) is a failure to compel women to accept responsibility for their actions and decisions and we them condemn men for not anticipating her lack of responsibility. I don't think that it is an either/or situation. Both parties bear a responsibility. What I object to are the representations to the effect that one party is solely responsible to the exclusion of the other. Think about it: some men use sanctimonious statements such as "her body, her choice, her responsibility" to evade their own responsibilities. I know this because those men conspicuously evade my statement, "his semen, his choice, his responsibility." Perhaps they only use that statement because they are cut off from ANY choice after pregnancy has occurred--perhaps if both parties were goven equal treatment form the outset--in other words, perhaps if women were told that the man would have the child every other week, and that she would pay $x per week in child support when he had the child, men would feel differently. But to be told that she gets all the rights and the only thing he gets to do is pay money and see the child at her whim makes it hard to feel like a father. Let the man actually BE a father and see how fast the "her body her responsibility" changes for most of them What I'm trying to discuss is taking responsibility. What most are trying to discuss is evading their own responsibility. And the responsibility that most seem to be wanting to evade is financial responsibility. I don't agree. I think they are discussing having an equal say in the life of their own child--rather than being told that all they are good for is $$$$. I am tired of our society treating women like helpless dependents of the state and of man. It has led to abbhorent behavior by women and is being swept under the rug at the expense of children. The problem is that women, having been treated badly by man for a rather long time, now feel justified in treating men badly in turn. This, of course, does not resolve the issue; rather, it perpetuates the issue. Yes, it does. So why don't we get busy and make it clear that both parents are now bound to each other by the child and they better get busy and act like adults for the sake of the child. Mom has to give up 50% of the time with the child and pay her fair share, and Dad has to be a parent as well as paying only his fair share. Equal. Sounds good. For instance, are you aware that mothers are responsible for 2/3 of child abuse cases and that the bio father is the *least* likely family member to abuse his children? That does not surprise me, given the legal construct of the child as property. The one who has custody of the property is the one most likely to abuse it. That's especially true if the pregnancy/child was not wanted in the first place. Maybe if things were more equal, we would see far less abuse, because nobody would feel overburdened. |
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