Things to think of before you get married again..
 

Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote
..............................................
What I'm trying to discuss is taking responsibility.
==
What you appear to be discussing is *men* taking responsibility for women.

Nonsense.

I ask again, what is so damned bad about asking people to take
responsibility for their actions?

Honestly, I find all of you to be pathetic in the extreme. Can't even
accept at face value the concept of being responsible for your own actions.

To those of you who resent the other person because she chose to abort
your child, remember that if you'd kept it in your pants, the situation
would never have arisen. Thus, you have a responsibility for that sad
consequence.

To those of you who resent having to pay child support or care for for a
child you did/do not want, remember your active and willing
participation in the act that led to pregnancy and childbirth. Thus, you
have a responsibility for that consequence.

Not *the* responsibility. *A* responsibility.

"Her body, her choice, her responsibility."

"His semen, his choice, his responsibility."

"For every choice, a consequence."

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote
..............................................
What I'm trying to discuss is taking responsibility.
==
What you appear to be discussing is *men* taking responsibility for
women.

Nonsense.

I ask again, what is so damned bad about asking people to take
responsibility for their actions?

Two things. First, the action of having sex does not mean consenting to be
a parent. And second, responsibility is a code word in family law for
paying money.


Honestly, I find all of you to be pathetic in the extreme. Can't even
accept at face value the concept of being responsible for your own
actions.

Not when responsibility really means paying money for a child you didn't
consent to have or responsibility means paying a woman who choses to file
for divorce for touchy-feely reasons over your objection.


To those of you who resent the other person because she chose to abort
your child, remember that if you'd kept it in your pants, the situation
would never have arisen. Thus, you have a responsibility for that sad
consequence.

This balme the man thinking is not going to get you very far. And what does
abortion have to do with the issue of responsibility?


To those of you who resent having to pay child support or care for for a
child you did/do not want, remember your active and willing
participation in the act that led to pregnancy and childbirth. Thus, you
have a responsibility for that consequence.

But what if you agreed to have a child within a marriage and the woman
unilaterly decides to end the marriage. What then?


Not *the* responsibility. *A* responsibility.

"Her body, her choice, her responsibility."

"His semen, his choice, his responsibility."

"For every choice, a consequence."

Why do you insist on describing these as individual responsibilities rather
than mutual responsibilities?

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

"Fred" wrote in

Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote
..............................................
What I'm trying to discuss is taking responsibility.
==
What you appear to be discussing is *men* taking responsibility for
women.

Nonsense.

I ask again, what is so damned bad about asking people to take
responsibility for their actions?

Honestly, I find all of you to be pathetic in the extreme. Can't even
accept at face value the concept of being responsible for your own
actions.


What do you define as taking responcibility?

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

"Fred" wrote
Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote
..............................................
What I'm trying to discuss is taking responsibility.
==
What you appear to be discussing is *men* taking responsibility for
women.

Nonsense.
==
Well, there's a well thought out position. You just proved my point. You
can't
even comprehend women taking responsibility. Pathetic.

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote
....................
What, I want to know, is so damned bad about suggesting that people take
responsibility?
==
Not at all--In fact we agree. She had the responsibility to not have sex
when she was ovulating
and had the responsibility to know when she is ovulating and the
responsibility to tell him when
she was ovulating. Apparently, she failed to do so. What we seem to have
(systemically, in our society)
is a failure to compel women to accept responsibility for their actions
and decisions and we them condemn
men for not anticipating her lack of responsibility.

I don't think that it is an either/or situation. Both parties bear a
responsibility. What I object to are the representations to the effect
that one party is solely responsible to the exclusion of the other. Think
about it: some men use sanctimonious statements such as "her body, her
choice, her responsibility" to evade their own responsibilities. I know
this because those men conspicuously evade my statement, "his semen, his
choice, his responsibility."

What I'm trying to discuss is taking responsibility.

Good luck, Fred - when I tried to point out that men were responsible for
using their own birth control methods rather than putting that
responsibility on women, it didn't get anywhere, either.

What most are
trying to discuss is evading their own responsibility. And the
responsibility that most seem to be wanting to evade is financial
responsibility.

I am tired of our society treating women like helpless
dependents of the state and of man. It has led to abbhorent behavior by
women and is being swept under the rug at the expense of children.

The problem is that women, having been treated badly by man for a rather
long time, now feel justified in treating men badly in turn. This, of
course, does not resolve the issue; rather, it perpetuates the issue.

For instance, are you aware that mothers are responsible for 2/3 of child
abuse
cases and that the bio father is the *least* likely family member to
abuse his children?

That does not surprise me, given the legal construct of the child as
property. The one who has custody of the property is the one most likely
to abuse it. That's especially true if the pregnancy/child was not wanted
in the first place.

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

Bob Whiteside wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote
..............................................
What I'm trying to discuss is taking responsibility.
==
What you appear to be discussing is *men* taking responsibility for
women.
Nonsense.

I ask again, what is so damned bad about asking people to take
responsibility for their actions?

Two things. First, the action of having sex does not mean consenting to be
a parent.

"Informed consent is a legal condition whereby a person can be said to
have given consent based upon an appreciation and understanding of the
facts and implications of an action."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informed_consent

And second, responsibility is a code word in family law for
paying money.

I don't write in code. I write in American English.

"responsibility ... : moral, legal, or mental accountability"

http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dicti...responsibility

Still, you have helped to make my point that, at the end of the day,
this is all about money. Not moral accountability. Not informed consent.
Not the welfare of the child. Money. And specifically evading the
payment of money when one is both morally and legally accountable to do so.

Honestly, I find all of you to be pathetic in the extreme. Can't even
accept at face value the concept of being responsible for your own
actions.

Not when responsibility really means paying money for a child you didn't
consent to have or responsibility means paying a woman who choses to file
for divorce for touchy-feely reasons over your objection.

See what I mean? To you, it's all about money, and you're not about to
let little things like moral accountability and informed consent get in
your way.

To those of you who resent the other person because she chose to abort
your child, remember that if you'd kept it in your pants, the situation
would never have arisen. Thus, you have a responsibility for that sad
consequence.

This balme the man thinking is not going to get you very far. And what does
abortion have to do with the issue of responsibility?

Some guy claimed that he had no moral accountability for the unwanted
pregnancy resulting in abortion. I was just pointing out how wrong he is.

To those of you who resent having to pay child support or care for for a
child you did/do not want, remember your active and willing
participation in the act that led to pregnancy and childbirth. Thus, you
have a responsibility for that consequence.

But what if you agreed to have a child within a marriage and the woman
unilaterly decides to end the marriage. What then?

Always looking for a way to get out of being legally accountable, aren't
you? Okay, I'll revise:

To those of you who resent having to pay child support or care for for a
child, remember your active, willing, and informed participation in the
act that led to pregnancy and childbirth. Thus, you have both a moral
and legal responsibility for that consequence.

Happy now?

Not *the* responsibility. *A* responsibility.

"Her body, her choice, her responsibility."

"His semen, his choice, his responsibility."

"For every choice, a consequence."

Why do you insist on describing these as individual responsibilities rather
than mutual responsibilities?

Because we are first and foremost individuals, and our responsibilities
are first and foremost individual responsibilities.

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

?-? wrote:
"Fred" wrote in

Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote
..............................................
What I'm trying to discuss is taking responsibility.
==
What you appear to be discussing is *men* taking responsibility for
women.
Nonsense.

I ask again, what is so damned bad about asking people to take
responsibility for their actions?

Honestly, I find all of you to be pathetic in the extreme. Can't even
accept at face value the concept of being responsible for your own
actions.


What do you define as taking responcibility?

"responsibility ... : moral, legal, or mental accountability"

http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dicti...responsibility

Okay, I answered your question, now you answer mine: what is so damned
bad about asking people to take responsibility for their actions?

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote
Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote
..............................................
What I'm trying to discuss is taking responsibility.
==
What you appear to be discussing is *men* taking responsibility for
women.
Nonsense.
==
Well, there's a well thought out position. You just proved my point. You
can't
even comprehend women taking responsibility. Pathetic.


Would you like me to go back and quote your message where you said that
you agreed with what I was saying?

If you're just looking for a fight, look elsewhere. I don't have time.

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

Moon Shyne wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote
....................
What, I want to know, is so damned bad about suggesting that people take
responsibility?
==
Not at all--In fact we agree. She had the responsibility to not have sex
when she was ovulating
and had the responsibility to know when she is ovulating and the
responsibility to tell him when
she was ovulating. Apparently, she failed to do so. What we seem to have
(systemically, in our society)
is a failure to compel women to accept responsibility for their actions
and decisions and we them condemn
men for not anticipating her lack of responsibility.
I don't think that it is an either/or situation. Both parties bear a
responsibility. What I object to are the representations to the effect
that one party is solely responsible to the exclusion of the other. Think
about it: some men use sanctimonious statements such as "her body, her
choice, her responsibility" to evade their own responsibilities. I know
this because those men conspicuously evade my statement, "his semen, his
choice, his responsibility."

What I'm trying to discuss is taking responsibility.

Good luck, Fred - when I tried to point out that men were responsible for
using their own birth control methods rather than putting that
responsibility on women, it didn't get anywhere, either.

It's all about money anyway. They want all the fun, they just don't want
to have to pay for the consequences. Once the semen hits the egg,
they're all too willing to let the woman take all the responsibility, be
it moral, legal, or financial. And then we've got this looneytunes who
claims that these guys aren't letting women take responsibility. Heck,
these guys want women to take *all* the responsibility, which will leave
them more money to buy that new truck/ATV/bass boat, and moral
accountability be damned.

Pathetic.

Things to think of before you get married again..
 

"Fred" wrote
Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote
Gini wrote:
"Fred" wrote
..............................................
What I'm trying to discuss is taking responsibility.
==
What you appear to be discussing is *men* taking responsibility for
women.
Nonsense.
==
Well, there's a well thought out position. You just proved my point. You
can't
even comprehend women taking responsibility. Pathetic.
Would you like me to go back and quote your message where you said that
you agreed with what I was saying?
==
OK, I assumed you had normal comprehension capabilities. My error.
==

If you're just looking for a fight, look elsewhere. I don't have time.
==
Nor the intellect, apparently.