On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:43:20 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: We don't live in Britain, which still has an aristocracy by law. In this country, all citizens are equal, and to look down on another citizen for the way they talk is rude and crude. Bill Cosby is not looking down on anyone. I know he isn't. But you are, racist. That's so pitiful. How many times are you going to say that? The truth must hurt a great deal. lojbab Holger http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm |
On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:48:54 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:05:40 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!" You also can't be a doctor with the word "crap" coming out of your mouth. Oh yes you can. Of course you can. Doctors are very familiar with crap. You surely mean "fecal material", or are you an ignorant racist buffoon. Oops, we know the answer. They often put on the gloves and stick their finger up a rectum to feel the prostate, etc. There is nothing holy about a doctor. Over 100,000 people each year are killed by the mistakes of doctors and nurses. I was referring to the word, which is not considered a word "properly" used by an educated person such as a doctor, no matter where he sticks his hand. That is utterly ridiculous. Doctors would not think anything about using the word, "crap". Many do not refer to your testicles and your scrotum, but call it your cod sack. Doctors are not sissies. When someone complains about someone else's proper speech, and uses the word "crap" to describe that speech, they are either being crude or funny, and I doubt that Cosby was being crude. He was just speaking like Cosby speaks when he's serious. You think that "crap" is proper English used by doctors. Of course, it's fine. Do you think they are so stilted that they say, "They just have fecal matter coming out of their mouths."? That would be a stilted, affected remark. Doctors are usually not like old fuddy duddy old maids. lojbab Holger http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm |
On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote: On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:20:19 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian. I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with elements of both. Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event on them. He was serious, of course. I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay, or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem. Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge. What is "this way"? Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc. That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc. Those are poor examples. Lots of people say "Ory-gone" instead of "Ory-gun" when referring to the state of Oregon. The marketing execs for Southwest Airlines certainly do. Meanwhile, Blacks have choices. *Most* of the black youth with whom I work know when formal English is required and can make the transition when necessary. From many, formal English is all I've ever heard. We stereotype when we try to claim all blacks are stuck in an ebonics world or that they don't know. They make choices and the reasons for those choices are many. I work with one woman (a support staff member, not a teacher) who cannot speak formal English. It grates on my nerves after a while because she talks nonstop. But interestingly, her three children are all quite skilled at formal English. That's all I've ever heard them speak when they come to visit. All are well educated and successful too. Not a loser in the bunch. So she and her husband must have done something right. |
On Sat, 22 May 2004 16:44:36 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote: On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote: On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:20:19 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian. I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with elements of both. Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event on them. He was serious, of course. I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay, or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem. Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge. What is "this way"? Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc. That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc. Those are poor examples. Lots of people say "Ory-gone" instead of "Ory-gun" when referring to the state of Oregon. The marketing execs for Southwest Airlines certainly do. Meanwhile, Blacks have choices. *Most* of the black youth with whom I work know when formal English is required and can make the transition when necessary. From many, formal English is all I've ever heard. We stereotype when we try to claim all blacks are stuck in an ebonics world or that they don't know. Cosby is not stereotyping. He said, "Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal." THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PARENTING. He does not say, "all blacks". They make choices and the reasons for those choices are many. I work with one woman (a support staff member, not a teacher) who cannot speak formal English. It grates on my nerves after a while because she talks nonstop. But interestingly, her three children are all quite skilled at formal English. That's all I've ever heard them speak when they come to visit. All are well educated and successful too. Not a loser in the bunch. So she and her husband must have done something right. We are not saying that all blacks can not speak English, but just a lot of them. Holger http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm |
Fletch F. Fletch wrote:
Christopher Weeks wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: [Blacks] don't understand that they should value education and speaking, walking, sitting, etc., correctly. Are you serious? Do the rest of us all think this is hilarious, or is it just me? Chris Not much on this issue is hilarious. Clearly there are racists unleashing their hatred around here. But it is also clear (at least by what I have read and my experience) that there is a 1 SD difference between whites and blacks on standardized tests, asians score even better. In my work (network research), I notice that I have many asian and white colleagues, and almost no black colleagues. It bothers me, but it is what I would expect in my area from a black gaussian shifted 1 SD to the left. As far as I can tell, this issue is very real, and its causes need to be understood. As this problem currently seems to be intractable, I'm guessing we don't understand enough yet. Slainte, Fletch --------------- Results of IQ tests are meaningless, they only assess the results of circumstances, they do NOT identify the causal origin of those harmful circumstances. The cause is racism and the results of racism in the attitudes of blacks. Blacks long ago were tested for learning ability in large numbers and it was determined that they have exactly the same ability to learn at all levels of complexity, as whites, and as asians as well. The disparity occurs due to attitudes toward white society and white culture, and not because they are unable. They have been so brutalized by racism and economic unfairness that they see any emulation of anything that even MIGHT be seen as white as a betrayal of their own kind. The only way to defeat such a hatred is to pay reparations to blacks and restore their standard of living that has been stolen from them, by buying them homes, and buying them talented black tutors and re-education and retraining by other talented blacks, and then giving them jobs in black-owned businesses and industries until they have an equal income tothe American average, then and ONLY then can they feel that what had once been stolen from them by slavery and racism has been restored and ON THEIR OWN TERMS! ONLY THEN will they feel that those who robbed them have payed for their crimes!! Even if that takes a decade of this nations GDP we will still have to do it to finally correct the results of slavery and racism. Steve |
EKurtz wrote:
"Fletch F. Fletch" wrote But it is also clear (at least by what I have read and my experience) that there is a 1 SD difference between whites and blacks on standardized tests, asians score even better. In my work (network research), I notice that I have many asian and white colleagues, and almost no black colleagues. My colleague situation is exactly the same (software, biotech, genetics). Such blacks as there are invariably occupy lower rank positions (HR, security, cafeteria, maintenance). Likewise Hispanics. It bothers me, but it is what I would expect in my area from a black gaussian shifted 1 SD to the left. The same applies at the other end of the spectrum - more retarded blacks than whites. As far as I can tell, this issue is very real, and its causes need to be understood. As this problem currently seems to be intractable, .... Why do you reject the genetic hypothesis? What doesn't the GH explain? ----------------------- Oh, just the research and the evidence, you ****ing idiot. Steve |
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2004 10:20:33 GMT, Christopher Weeks wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: You probably don't realize that there is a correct way to do everything. I sure don't. I'm confused about the "correct" way to sit, for instance. I sort of figure that if your butt is on a chair, bench, couch, the ground, the back of a car, the edge of a table, etc. and your weight is mainly supported by that butt, allowing your legs and feet to rest, then you're sitting correctly. Right? What does it even mean to sit incorrectly? Slouching is very incorrect. It means to walk, stand, or sit with a slouch. A slouch is a loose or drooping gait or posture. It's usually indicative of a lazy or incompetent person, who, by the way, may be called a slouch. Chris Holger -------------------- Slouching is not evidence of anything but resentment. If you have brutalized someone you can expect them to slouch when you "call them before you". It is a mode of disrespect, one you DESERVE!! Steve |
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:25:43 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: Slouching is very incorrect. It means to walk, stand, or sit with a slouch. A slouch is a loose or drooping gait or posture. It's usually indicative of a lazy or incompetent person, who, by the way, may be called a slouch. What makes it incorrect? What makes the lack of a slouch superior? The same thing that makes walking with a drooping gait not the proper way to walk unless you are trying to look like a clown. Who are YOU to define what is "proper" and what isn't "proper" in walking or any other activity, racist? I'm someone who knows the proper way to speak and walk and sit and behave. I grew up in a home and all of the family knew these things and associated primarily with other people who do. You stand up straight when you walk. Does he? How do you know? Everyone should stand up straight when they walk. ---------------- Not because you tell them to, in fact not, if you tell them to!!!! Steve |
Fletch F. Fletch wrote:
Christopher Weeks wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: You probably don't realize that there is a correct way to do everything. I sure don't. I'm confused about the "correct" way to sit, for instance. I sort of figure that if your butt is on a chair, bench, couch, the ground, the back of a car, the edge of a table, etc. and your weight is mainly supported by that butt, allowing your legs and feet to rest, then you're sitting correctly. Right? What does it even mean to sit incorrectly? Chris It means to sit in a way that leads to injury, short term or long term, through falling or improper body posture. It means to sit in a way such that you damage things. There is also a correct way to look at a monitor and type while you are sitting correctly. Set that up wrong and work at a computer for a few years. You'll find what incorrect means. Slainte, Fletch -------------- Irrelevant, slouching is a form of disrespect that you have earned with your racism and brutality. Steve |
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2004 15:35:06 GMT, Christopher Weeks wrote: Fletch F. Fletch wrote: You probably don't realize that there is a correct way to do everything. I sure don't. I'm confused about the "correct" way to sit, for instance. I sort of figure that if your butt is on a chair, bench, couch, the ground, the back of a car, the edge of a table, etc. and your weight is mainly supported by that butt, allowing your legs and feet to rest, then you're sitting correctly. Right? What does it even mean to sit incorrectly? It means to sit in a way that leads to injury, short term or long term, through falling or improper body posture. It means to sit in a way such that you damage things. There is also a correct way to look at a monitor and type while you are sitting correctly. Set that up wrong and work at a computer for a few years. You'll find what incorrect means. OK, but what's it to you? Everyone does stuff with, for and to their bodies that could be called sub-optimal. And really, the best way to look at these factors is through risk assessment. There is a risk that poor posture will lead to late-life back trauma. There is a risk that poor wrist positioning will lead to nervous disorders after years of typing. So those are incorrect, right? What about driving? Is driving incorrect because there is a risk of injury and death? I mean, the implications here are pretty broad and it certainly sounds to many of us like a very broad brush painting along lines of truth are being used to obscure racism. What's your agenda? That's what Cosby is trying to tell you. Quit hiding behind racism, and begin valuing what is right and what is wrong. Try to be someone who does the right thing. Care about yourself and other people, and care about how you behave or act. It's very, very, very, very important to do that. Stop this "I don't give a damn." attitude. Holger --------------- Cosby is a rich rightist asshole, he always has been, he has played golf with Nixon and Reagan, and he's a black racist. The "I don't give a damn" attitide is a form of disrespect that the white society has earned with its racist and economic brutality and unfairness!!! Steve |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:44 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
ParentingBanter.com