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Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2004 11:44:30 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: Only to those who refuse to accept "different" as equal. In other words, subhuman racists. That's people like Bill Cosby and I who do not accept people being so sorry that they do not pronounce English words correctly and don't care how they pronounce words. And, that's not only our opinion, but also, the truth. When I say, "To murder someone is wrong." ------------------- You mean kill, murder is a judgement about a killing that isn't yours to make. and you say, "Not necessarily, that's just your opinion.", then it tells me that you have a screwed up mind like so many black people that Cosby mentioned that are in prison. --------------------- The racists who keep blacks from obtaining the proper reparations that they are owed and the restoration to American Average Income and ownership of their homes and equal jobs lives SHOULD be dragged to the curb and shot through the head as CRIMINALS!!! That's where you will end up if you don't change your attitude and get a good sense of values. Holger ------------------------- Or in political power after enough of us decide to shoot all the racists!! Steve |
Holger Dansk wrote:
Slouching is very incorrect. It means to walk, stand, or sit with a slouch. A slouch is a loose or drooping gait or posture. It's usually indicative of a lazy or incompetent person, who, by the way, may be called a slouch. What makes it incorrect? What makes the lack of a slouch superior? The same thing that makes walking with a drooping gait not the proper way to walk unless you are trying to look like a clown. You stand up straight when you walk. Holger But that's what I mean. Why is such a walk improper? Chris |
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:36:57 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: It is not "the truth", because "correctness" of pronunciation is not something that is "true" or "false" but rather is merely opinion. Now, do you realize what you are saying? Do you know why we have dictionaries showing pronunciation? So you think that correct pronunciation is only an opinion? Wrong. In dictionaries, it is the most accepted pronunciation that has evolved over a long period of time. Do you think that right and wrong are not facts but opinions? ----------------- Because there is no right and wrong EXCEPT for human opinion, and ALL things are ONLY human opinions. If you can change human opinion, then you can CHANGE THE "TRUTH"!!! If so, it was people like you who committed the atrocities in the Iraq prisons. Right and wrong are not opinions. They are absolutes. ----------------- Nope. You must have been beaten as a child, you're sick. Right and wrong have changed so much down through history, even recent history, that nobody but a stupid medievalist can believe that!! Unfortunately, the son-of-a-bitches who mistreated the Iraq prisoners, evidently, had no value system and either didn't know right from wrong or didn't care. They all said, "I was ordered to do that." ----------------- That's what they SAY. They clearly enjoyed it. The Iraqis should be abused until they give up. I don't give a flying **** if we tease and rape them in prison, it doesn't bother me at all! I BELIEVE IT IS RIGHT, because they don't have a fair secular democratic government, and we're trying to make them create one by force. We HAVE the right to do that to rescue even the few Iraqis who know that they DESERVE western freedoms!! To me, THAT'S the highest good, and NOT their safety!! A govt which is not fair, secular, and democratic (and only lastly so), is a criminal gang and anyone opposing us should be tortured to death!! That is totally irrelevant. You stand up for right and do not do wrong regardless of what any superior officer orders you to do. ---------------------------- Unless they're wrong. Those soldiers KNEW in their heart of hearts that the Iraqi culture and religion needs to have its back broken before they can ever be civilized, and before our soldiers' deaths can be justified!!! If a superior officer had said, "Here, take this sword and cut that prisoner's head off.", these fools may have done it. You never obey a superior when he/she is wrong. Holger --------------------------- They did it not because they were WRONG, but because they were RIGHT, you ****ing dope, they just didn't dare to SAY that TRUTH!! Steve |
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2004 06:27:29 -0500, "Donna Metler" wrote: I teach in the inner city. And I've heard a lot of very educated people who can slide back and forth between the local dialect and more formal speech. Heck, after 7 years, I can do it. So can my students. Dialect and slang is as much a way of shutting the outside world out as anything else. IOW, they don't particularly WANT to be understood by people who don't make an effort to understand them. Same with any other subgroup. I strongly suggest reading Ruby Payne. She's researched generational poverty and the social/familial situation around it. A great deal of the things you seem to be objecting to are features of that particular ses group, not a specific racial group. Middle class people do not have the same mentalities and behaviors that the very wealthy culture does (and it takes significant work for someone who develops wealth later to "fit in" with this culture). The same holds in generational poverty vs. generational middle class behaviors. I can speak incorrectly too. Anyone can. The idea is to speak correctly. Below is your post done incorrectly. ------------------ Irrelevant. Steve |
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:42:25 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: Who are YOU to tell others what they "should" do I'm like Bill Cosby. We know what proper behavior is. Holger ---------------- You don't know crap. You're just a little white racist ****. Steve |
Holger Dansk wrote:
What makes it incorrect? What makes the lack of a slouch superior? The same thing that makes walking with a drooping gait not the proper way to walk unless you are trying to look like a clown. Who are YOU to define what is "proper" and what isn't "proper" in walking or any other activity, racist? I'm someone who knows the proper way to speak and walk and sit and behave. I grew up in a home and all of the family knew these things and associated primarily with other people who do. So you can't explain it even the slightest bit? You stand up straight when you walk. Does he? How do you know? Everyone should stand up straight when they walk. Do you even see that this is completely circular? Chris |
On Sun, 23 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote: On Sat, 22 May 2004 16:44:36 -0700, Joni Rathbun wrote: On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote: On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:20:19 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian. I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with elements of both. Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event on them. He was serious, of course. I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay, or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem. Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge. What is "this way"? Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc. That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc. Those are poor examples. Lots of people say "Ory-gone" instead of "Ory-gun" when referring to the state of Oregon. The marketing execs for Southwest Airlines certainly do. Meanwhile, Blacks have choices. *Most* of the black youth with whom I work know when formal English is required and can make the transition when necessary. From many, formal English is all I've ever heard. We stereotype when we try to claim all blacks are stuck in an ebonics world or that they don't know. Cosby is not stereotyping. He said, "Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal." THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PARENTING. He does not say, "all blacks". I wasn't talking about Cosby. I was talking about people like you. They make choices and the reasons for those choices are many. I work with one woman (a support staff member, not a teacher) who cannot speak formal English. It grates on my nerves after a while because she talks nonstop. But interestingly, her three children are all quite skilled at formal English. That's all I've ever heard them speak when they come to visit. All are well educated and successful too. Not a loser in the bunch. So she and her husband must have done something right. We are not saying that all blacks can not speak English, but just a lot of them. Frankly, from the "linguistic" examples you've given us, I don't see how you'd even know. |
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2004 16:44:36 -0700, Joni Rathbun wrote: On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote: On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:20:19 -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: Holger Dansk wrote: With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian. I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with elements of both. Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event on them. He was serious, of course. I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay, or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem. Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge. What is "this way"? Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc. That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc. Those are poor examples. Lots of people say "Ory-gone" instead of "Ory-gun" when referring to the state of Oregon. The marketing execs for Southwest Airlines certainly do. Meanwhile, Blacks have choices. *Most* of the black youth with whom I work know when formal English is required and can make the transition when necessary. From many, formal English is all I've ever heard. We stereotype when we try to claim all blacks are stuck in an ebonics world or that they don't know. Cosby is not stereotyping. He said, "Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal." THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PARENTING. ----------------------- Sure they are, you just don't like how they do it. Steve |
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