In alt.parenting.spanking Nathan A. Barclay wrote:

: "Chris" wrote in message
: ...
: In alt.parenting.spanking Nathan A. Barclay wrote:
:
: : But by and large, the system works. And throwing it out before we're
: : positive that we have something that will work better in the real world,
: : with real parents and real children, would be foolish.
:
: Once again, Nathan, you appear to be talking about win/win cooperative
: nonpunitive discipline as if it were some sort of new untested concept
: rather than a set of approaches to dealing with conflict in the
: parent/child relationship developed decades ago and used successfully in

: Chris, this is anecdotal evidence. If I argued that there are thousands of
: parents who spank and get good results, you would correctly counter that
: just because there are thousands of parents who spank and get good results,
: that most definitely does not mean that all parents who spank get good
: results. So why should I accept the same kind of reasoning from you
: regarding non-punitive techniques?

: As I keep saying, how well strictly non-punitive techniques work depends on
: children's willingness to cooperate.

And as I keep saying, you miss the central driving force behind the
success of nonpunitive win/win discipline, which is every child's desire
for an harmonious relationship with the key adults in their lives
(provided the child's needs are being met in the process). You invoke
hypothetical children who are completely indifferent to the quality of
their relationships with their parents and then you use these hypothetical
children to reason that punishment is essential and the lack of it would
be a "disaster." But I have never met a child like that and I doubt if
you have. True, you have probably seen children who don't seem to care
about their parents' feelings, but show me a child like that and I will
show you a child whose parent's blow off the child's feelings. Children
give back what they get.

Chris