"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Phil wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Phil wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Andre Lieven wrote:
"Tracy" ) writes:
"Gini" wrote in message
news:v25Vg.2469$6S2.1287@trndny02...
wrote
.............................
Deary, a vasectomy is cheaper than a month of child support.
If you
don't want to breed, don't have sex with a fertile woman,
==
And how is he to know when she is fertile?
Isn't a vasectomy only cheaper than a month of child support if
child support is more than a vasecotmy? How much is a
vasectomy?
How much is a tubal ligation ?
Here's something interesting:

"The cost of vasectomy is typically 3 to 4 times less than the
cost of tubal ligation. Although prices vary, regionally,
vasectomy costs generally range from about two hundrend fifty to
one thousand dollars, while the cost of tubal ligation often begin
at about one thousand dollars and may go as high as twenty-five
hundred dollars. The cost difference is mainly due to the fact of
where each procedure is performed; an office procedure vs. a
hospital procedure."

http://womenshealth.about.com/cs/ste...zhisorhe_3.htm

But it's not really about cost, is it?

It's about taking responsibility.
Apparently, it's about applying responsibility to only men as noted
in your next statement.
Your bigotry is showing. But on we go ...

Equality is bigotry???

You aren't talking about equality. You are talking about inequality,
as in assigning responsibility to one in a matter where it is properly
assigned to both.

Men and women share responsibility for any pregnancy that occurs when
they agree to have sex. BOTH and equally, not just the man. You are
bending over backward to promote the idea that men are solely
responsible for any pregnancy while saying absolutely nothing about any
responsibility the woman may or may not have. Why is that?


And let's face it, he's responsible for where his semen ends up,
and in this day and age, I don't think it's reasonable for him to
say that he didn't know *all* of the potential consequences of his
actions. So here's a question:
Another question: If men are responsible for their semen, do women
have any responsibility for allowing it near their egg?
Sure. Everyone is responsible in their areas of responsibility.

What you can't do is to hang all responsibility on one of the sexes.

So when an accidental pregnancy occurs ...

What do you mean by "accidental pregnancy"?

Inintended.


... tell me again how it is the sole responsibility of the man ...

Never said it was. What I said, which you have quoted above, is that
"Everyone is responsible in their areas of responsibility." But I
guess your knee-jerk bigotry let you ignore that.

And now I'm a bigot because I advocate men and women equally sharing
responsibility for an agreed action that results in pregnancy? I believe
it is obvious where the bigotry resides.


as in "And let's face it, he's responsible for where his semen ends
up..."

Well, isn't he?

Equally with the woman who agreed to it, yes.
You have overlooked women's responsibility in this from the start. Why?


I eagerly await your answer to this question.

... as if the woman has no responsibility in the matter.

Oh, she has her responsibility in the matter, too. Never said she
didn't. (See above) But there are men out there who claim to have no
responsibility whatsoever, and that bothers me. They make
sanctimonious statements something like "her body, her choice, her
responsibility", when it's also "his semen, his choice, his
responsibility". But they are so blinded by bigotry and bitterness
that they have (conveniently?) forgotten that essential fact.

The fact is, she has several other "outs" that are denied him. That's
one part you conveniently forget. Another is that if she chooses to
allow birth, he still gets no choices, only she does but he is still
held unequally responsible. If she has total and sole choice, she must
also accept total and sole responsbility. If you want men to have equal
responsibility, allow them equal choices. It's really simple once the
bias is removed.



Abortion *is* one of the potential consequences.

...for the woman. How does this involve a man before pregnancy?

So this man gets to thinking about the potential consequences of
spreading his semen hither and yon, and he realizes that one of those
potential consequences might be an unwanted pregnancy, for which he
would be at least partially responsibility because, after all, it's
"his semen, his choice, his responsibility", and one of the potential
consequences of that unwanted pregnancy might be an abortion, for
which he would also be at least partly responsible, because if there
were no unwanted pregnancy in the first place, there would be no need
for an abortion in the second place.

You cannot rightly expect people to accept responsibility for choices
they are not allowed to make. The only righteous way to make this equal
is to ban abortion on demand and let the parents both share the
responsibility for any child that results in consential sex.
Men and women share responsibility for a pregnancy but since only one
has any choices beyond that, they also have the sole responsibility. The
simplest way to equalize it all is to ban abortion as birth control and
force parents to either share custody and expense equally or pay the
other if they choose not to be a parent.
As it is, women share responsibility for creating pregnancy. From that
point on, the women have all choice and the man *must* accept her
choice, whatever it is, as his responsibility.
You cannot force someone to do something then blame them for doing
exactly what you forced them to do.


Spread your semen hither and yon and you are responsible for the
consequences of your actions. Somebody else might share that
responsibility, but that does not negate your responsibility. It just
doesn't.

Nope, not for the pregnancy but when a woman has the choice to deny
becoming a parent whether through unilaterally decided abortion,
adoption or abandonment, his responsibility is removed by her demanding
sole choice in the outcome.


FYI, I am sterile by choice because there are so many idiots making
nonsense into law like making man solely responsible for pregnancy.

I think that it is sad that you have chosen sterilization out of fear,
rather than out of a sense of responsibility.

I call it responsible. It is a reaction to the asnine feministic laws of
the land. I won't play their game by their ever-changing rules.

I guess that it is a matter of being able to be as emotionally
irresponsible as possible without having to worry about the
consequences. Women as objects and that sort of thing. But do note
this: I knew a guy whose wife got pregnant *after* the vasectomy.
Turned out that he had more than one set of tubes. Uncommon, but it
does occur. You might want to keep that in mind ...

So from your point of view, if pregnancy occurs it's the man's fault and
if he takes steps to prevent pregnancy he's immature?
Phil #3