"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Phil wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Phil wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
teachrmama wrote:

Second question: If it is reasonable for a man to know *all*
the potential consequences of his actions, is it any less
reasonable for women to also know, which negates abortion on
demand as a reasonable response to accidental pregnancy?
Your bigotry is getting in the way again.

Abortion *is* one of the potential consequences.
No it isn't!
Sure it is! Your bigotry is distorting your understanding of the
nature of consequences.

Pregnancy can be a consequence of having sex.
And abortion can be a consequence of pregnancy. Doesn't have to
be, but it can be. It's one a of a range of possible consequences
of pregnancy, others of which are adoption and carrying to term.
All are consequences.

Another choice is legal abandonment. All the post-conception
choices are available to women while none are available to men so
why are choices he is not allowed to make a consequence to the man?
Because he is responsible for where his semen ends up.

You didn't even attempt to answer the question.

I did answer the question. You just don't want to recognize it,
because to do so would mean that you are prepared to accept
responsibility for your actions, and it is clear to me that, like the
rest of your ilk, you won't do that.


Perhaps you can point me to your answer. Was it somehow comingled with
his responsibility for a woman choice to abort?

"His semen, his choice, his responsibility."

Won't confront that statement, either. Hits too close to the truth, I
guess.

That is the subject of this entire debate. I thought you knew that.
The questions a do women have any responsibility for pregnancy or is
it just men? Do women have any choices that are denied men?



It's like this: without his semen, there's no conception, without
conception, there is no pregnancy, without pregnancy, there is no
abortion, or abandonment, or live birth, or whatever outcome you
choose to list.

So isn't his grandfather somehow implicated in this because without
giving birth to his father, he would never have been born to "cause" the
pregnancy you want to blame entirely on him, regarless the final outcome
he is not allowed to make?


"His semen, his choice, his responsibility."

And no matter how hard you and your colleagues try to evade that
responsibility, y'all can't do it.

Women are killing, abandoning and giving, even selling their children
and all you can think about is that men are responsible for a pregnancy?


Sex may cause a pregnancy. Until a pregnancy occurs, both are equal
in deciding 1) to abstain from sex; 2) use contraception; 3) or do
nothing, hoping no pregnancy will occur. After pregnancy, the man
has no choices except those given by the woman and in fact, he may
not even be aware a pregnancy occurred. She is not even legally
required to inform him.
He should have thought of that before the fact. He should have been
responsible before the fact, because he sure as hell is gonna have
to own up to his responsibilities after the fact.

But women do not need to be responsible because we have men onto
which to pin responsibility for her decisions?

Women have responsibilities, too. But I don't see women trying to
evade their responsibilities, although there is one nutcase around
here who thinks they are. I do, however, see lots of men trying to do
so.

Every abortion and abandonment and many adoptions are evading
responsibility.


And even if someone else was not as responsible as she might have
been, that does not serve to negate his responsibility in the
matter.

Why do you feel women need the extra options that you seem to want to
forbid men?

What do you mean by "extra options"?

[this should be good ... ]

Sheesh. Are you really that stupid? Abortion, abandonment, adoption or
keeping the child and/or forcing some man, not necessarily the father,
to provide her with cash.


You also raise another interesting problem: what if the mother
doesn't tell him about the pregnancy, does he STILL have
responsibilities and what are they?

It's still his semen, right? I mean, just because he doesn't know that
he did something doesn't mean that he didn't do it. So yeah, he still
has a degree of moral accountability, and if the child is alive, he
definitely has legal accountability.

How so? What about the moral responsibility she should have to at least
inform him of the pregnancy? Is every problem the fault of men in your
world?
Do you think women who lie are innocent? Isn't a lie by omission a lie?


What if she does as some do, and keep it a secret for a decade or so.
What are his responsibilities then?

See above.

Ok, what are HER responsibilities in both scenarios?
Phil #3