Fred wrote:
Gini wrote:

"teachrmama" wrote
............................

And you, Fred, are totally *dismissing* WOMEN'S responsibilities! I
am a woman, and I find it demeaning that you keep harping on what MEN
should do, but not a hint about how WOMEN should handle their
responibilities in the same situation. Everything a woman does after
the sex act is a consequence of where that mean old man left his
semen. Nonsense! Or maybe I'm just reading you wrong--why don't you
clearly delineate what the woman's responsibilities are after the
consequence of pregnancy becomes an issue.

==
A ride to the CSE office? (Because she's *owed* it, of course.)


I guess that the matter is best explained by reference to the theme of
the game Fable: "For every choice, a consequence."

It's too bad that you seem to grasp the obvious fact that all post
conception choices are the woman's and therefore, in accordance with the
precepts of "Natural/Fundamental" Justice, all the consequences that
follow from those choices should also be hers.


So he chooses to spread his semen hither and yon, and she chooses to let
him spread it in her. And let's say that the consequence is pregnancy.

But that's as far as the "consequence" of his "spreading his sperm
around" go. After that the woman has many options and CHOICES...even if
she decides (note the word "decides") not to abort the fetus, that to,
is a CHOICE, the consequence of which will most likely be the birth of a
child...

Now there are other choices to be made, in this case by her, and from
those choices will spring consequences in turn.

Yes, as I noted above, but ALL post conception choices are HER choices,
to hold him responsible for the consequences that follow from HER
choices is fundamentally unfair, unjust and, on top of all that, most
likely unconstitutional...

Had there been no pregnancy, the consequences resulting therefrom would
not have occurred, because the choices resulting therefrom would not
have had to be made. And had he not spread his semen around, or had she
chosen not to let him spread his semen in her, there would have been no
pregnancy.

Even though true in most cases (though not in *all* cases), the fact
that there ARE post conception choices for the woman, negates the causal
link between the "spreading of his sperm" and childbirth...as they say
in mathematics, sperm is "a necessary but not a sufficient" requirement
for creating a baby. The mother's CHOICES completely outweigh and can
completely negate his "contribution" at any time during the gestation
period...up to (literally) seconds before a natural live birth would
have taken place.

Yes, she contributed to that pregnancy. But so did he, and attempts to
deny that fact with sanctimonious bleatings to the effect of "her body,
her choice, her responsibility" are simply not valid.

You are absolutely and completely wrong.
"Her Body = Her Choice = Her Responsibility" is a completely valid,
legally and morally consistent concept that springs from the reality
that in a "just" system of jurisprudence, from the power/authority to
take action arises responsibility for the consequences of the
power/action. When the power is solely held by one person, the
responsibility for the consequences of the action (or indeed the
inaction) rests solely on that one individual. In this case, the woman
has sole, sovereign, authority to determine whether any pregnancy will
be allowed to continue...that is a CHOICE with two possibilities, abort
or do not abort...BOTH are choices with consequences and both are HERS
ALONE and therefore the consequences of either of those CHOICES should
be hers alone...

Yes, he does not have input into certain downstream
choices/consequences. That's unfortunate, but it does not absolve him
from taking at least some responsibility for the consequences of his
behavior in spreading his semen hither and yon, including downstream
consequences not of his choosing, for at the end of the day it's "his
semen, his choice, his responsibility."

The consequence of his "spreading his sperm hither and yon" may be an
unwanted pregnancy however, since Roe-v-Wade, NO MAN has been
responsible for the birth of a child...that responsibility is solely the
woman's because she has the sole authority to take the decisions and
actions that MUST BE TAKEN for the pregnancy to continue and the child
to be born...

Abortion? Without an unwanted pregnancy, there is no abortion. And
without his semen, there is no unwanted pregnancy. "His semen, his
choice, his responsibility."

Yes, I agree 100% that he is equally responsible for the pregnancy but
SHE is responsible for HER choice to continue the pregnancy and the
consequences that arise from that decision...

Child support? Without a pregnancy, there is no child to support. And
without his semen, there is no pregnancy. "His semen, his choice, his
responsibility."

Drivel...this completely absolves the woman of the natural consequences
of the exercise of HER sole authority...

What, I want to know, is so damned bad about suggesting that people take
responsibility?

But that's exactly what we're asking for, that the sole, sovereign
authority of the woman over this process be recognized and that she be
morally and legally constrained to accept sole responsibility for the
consequences of the decisions and actions that she takes...
In the case where her decisions and actions are influenced by the man,
then HIS actions must also be taken into consideration, but the fact
that she finds herself pregnant isn't na influence of this nature since
it does not effect her decision making. As a example of what I mean; if
he tells her that he wants the child and will support her and/or will
take the child if she doesn't want it, then, IMHO, he's "on the hook"
and is responsible.

....ken