"Ken Chaddock" wrote in message
news:RzLWg.10968$H7.5814@edtnps82...
Fred wrote:
Gini wrote:

"teachrmama" wrote
............................

And you, Fred, are totally *dismissing* WOMEN'S responsibilities! I am
a woman, and I find it demeaning that you keep harping on what MEN
should do, but not a hint about how WOMEN should handle their
responibilities in the same situation. Everything a woman does after
the sex act is a consequence of where that mean old man left his semen.
Nonsense! Or maybe I'm just reading you wrong--why don't you clearly
delineate what the woman's responsibilities are after the consequence
of pregnancy becomes an issue.

==
A ride to the CSE office? (Because she's *owed* it, of course.)


I guess that the matter is best explained by reference to the theme of
the game Fable: "For every choice, a consequence."

It's too bad that you seem to grasp the obvious fact that all post
conception choices are the woman's and therefore, in accordance with the
precepts of "Natural/Fundamental" Justice, all the consequences that
follow from those choices should also be hers.


So he chooses to spread his semen hither and yon, and she chooses to let
him spread it in her. And let's say that the consequence is pregnancy.

But that's as far as the "consequence" of his "spreading his sperm around"
go. After that the woman has many options and CHOICES...even if she
decides (note the word "decides") not to abort the fetus, that to, is a
CHOICE, the consequence of which will most likely be the birth of a
child...

And if the child is born, how does that absolve the man from any
responsibility for or to the child?
Isn't it still 50% genetically his child, and legally his child as well?


Now there are other choices to be made, in this case by her, and from
those choices will spring consequences in turn.

Yes, as I noted above, but ALL post conception choices are HER choices, to
hold him responsible for the consequences that follow from HER choices is
fundamentally unfair, unjust and, on top of all that, most likely
unconstitutional...

So because she has choices that pertain strictly to undergoing (or not
undergoing) a medical and surgical procedure, you think this absolves the
man from any responsibility, even though it's still his child?


Had there been no pregnancy, the consequences resulting therefrom would
not have occurred, because the choices resulting therefrom would not have
had to be made. And had he not spread his semen around, or had she chosen
not to let him spread his semen in her, there would have been no
pregnancy.

Even though true in most cases (though not in *all* cases), the fact that
there ARE post conception choices for the woman, negates the causal link
between the "spreading of his sperm" and childbirth...as they say in
mathematics, sperm is "a necessary but not a sufficient" requirement for
creating a baby. The mother's CHOICES completely outweigh and can
completely negate his "contribution" at any time during the gestation
period...up to (literally) seconds before a natural live birth would have
taken place.

Yes, she contributed to that pregnancy. But so did he, and attempts to
deny that fact with sanctimonious bleatings to the effect of "her body,
her choice, her responsibility" are simply not valid.

You are absolutely and completely wrong.
"Her Body = Her Choice = Her Responsibility" is a completely valid,
legally and morally consistent concept that springs from the reality that
in a "just" system of jurisprudence, from the power/authority to take
action arises responsibility for the consequences of the power/action.
When the power is solely held by one person, the responsibility for the
consequences of the action (or indeed the inaction) rests solely on that
one individual. In this case, the woman has sole, sovereign, authority to
determine whether any pregnancy will be allowed to continue...that is a
CHOICE with two possibilities, abort or do not abort...BOTH are choices
with consequences and both are HERS ALONE and therefore the consequences
of either of those CHOICES should be hers alone...

Yes, he does not have input into certain downstream choices/consequences.
That's unfortunate, but it does not absolve him from taking at least some
responsibility for the consequences of his behavior in spreading his
semen hither and yon, including downstream consequences not of his
choosing, for at the end of the day it's "his semen, his choice, his
responsibility."

The consequence of his "spreading his sperm hither and yon" may be an
unwanted pregnancy however, since Roe-v-Wade, NO MAN has been responsible
for the birth of a child...that responsibility is solely the woman's
because she has the sole authority to take the decisions and actions that
MUST BE TAKEN for the pregnancy to continue and the child to be born...

Abortion? Without an unwanted pregnancy, there is no abortion. And
without his semen, there is no unwanted pregnancy. "His semen, his
choice, his responsibility."

Yes, I agree 100% that he is equally responsible for the pregnancy but SHE
is responsible for HER choice to continue the pregnancy and the
consequences that arise from that decision...

Child support? Without a pregnancy, there is no child to support. And
without his semen, there is no pregnancy. "His semen, his choice, his
responsibility."

Drivel...this completely absolves the woman of the natural consequences of
the exercise of HER sole authority...

What, I want to know, is so damned bad about suggesting that people take
responsibility?

But that's exactly what we're asking for, that the sole, sovereign
authority of the woman over this process be recognized and that she be
morally and legally constrained to accept sole responsibility for the
consequences of the decisions and actions that she takes...
In the case where her decisions and actions are influenced by the man,
then HIS actions must also be taken into consideration, but the fact that
she finds herself pregnant isn't na influence of this nature since it does
not effect her decision making. As a example of what I mean; if he tells
her that he wants the child and will support her and/or will take the
child if she doesn't want it, then, IMHO, he's "on the hook" and is
responsible.

...ken