On Sun, 23 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 16:44:36 -0700, Joni Rathbun
wrote:


On Sat, 22 May 2004, Holger Dansk wrote:

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:20:19 -0400, Bob LeChevalier
wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
With all due respect, Cosby has a PhD in education. And if you have ever
listened to him talk, you would know that he is a very smart, thoughtful
person. You do a disservice to him by dismissing him as a comedian.

I'm sure he is very smart, and can make intelligent comments about
education. But the reporting of the gala seems to make it clear that
while his comments had bite, the entertainers who were present were
performing their trade, and one cannot judge a comment without context
as well as sound and video information that would convey whether his
remark was serious, or comedically timed. In particular, the snippets
that were quoted sound like the sort of thing that he says in his
comedy routines, taking real life situations and phrasing them in
exaggerated but not wholly inaccurate manner. He had a routine about
special education on one of his earliest albums in the 60s which was
just that sort of thing that would sound politically incorrect and
offensive if spoken at an education conference, but was quite funny on
a comedy album. This gala was somewhere in between, probably with
elements of both.

Denial, denial, denial. All you have to do is go to the Google search
engine (www.Google.com) and type in Cosby and "why you ain't" without
the quotation marks and you will fine numerous web sites with the event
on them. He was serious, of course.

I don't deny that he said the things indicated. I think that there is
no way to tell from the printed page and the heavy excerpting whether
his wording was intended to be taken as one would take a prose essay,
or rather as a humorous indication that there is a serious problem.

Man, everyone knows that many black people speak this way. Where you
been, on another planet? It's just common knowledge.

What is "this way"?

Like Cosby says they do, "Why you ain't," "Where you is"..., etc.
That's just a teenie weenie example or just the tip of the iceberg. Of
course, they say poelice instead of police, Presidennnt instead of
President, incidennnt instead of incident, etc., etc., etc.


Those are poor examples. Lots of people say "Ory-gone" instead of
"Ory-gun" when referring to the state of Oregon. The marketing
execs for Southwest Airlines certainly do.

Meanwhile, Blacks have choices. *Most* of the black youth with whom
I work know when formal English is required and can make the transition
when necessary. From many, formal English is all I've ever heard.
We stereotype when we try to claim all blacks are stuck in an ebonics
world or that they don't know.

Cosby is not stereotyping. He said, "Ladies and gentlemen,
the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal."

THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PARENTING.

He does not say, "all blacks".


I wasn't talking about Cosby. I was talking about people like you.


They make choices and the reasons for those choices are many.

I work with one woman (a support staff member, not a teacher) who
cannot speak formal English. It grates on my nerves after a while
because she talks nonstop. But interestingly, her three children are
all quite skilled at formal English. That's all I've ever heard
them speak when they come to visit. All are well educated and
successful too. Not a loser in the bunch. So she and her husband
must have done something right.

We are not saying that all blacks can not speak English, but just a lot
of them.

Frankly, from the "linguistic" examples you've given us, I don't see
how you'd even know.