"Fighting for kids" adf wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Fighting for kids" adf wrote in message
...
By:

Joan B. Kelly, Ph. D.

Do you read any of this stuff you post? This source contradicts several
of
the positions you have taken in the past.

For instance you have stated women get custody because they are
recognized
as the primary caregivers. This article says states have changed their
custody laws and replaced the primary caregiver custody standard with
the
best interest of the child custody standard.

It states that SOME states are changing their custody law and replacing
the
primary caregiver standard. It also states that many states are still
using
the PC standard but are begining to recognize that MEN can be the PC also.

You've got that backwards. The article says the best interest of the child
custody standard was the overriding standard in ALL 50 STATES, but recently
Minnesota, Waahington, and West Virginia adopted legislation or case law
precendents which substitutes the old primary caregiver standard for child
custody. The article further states the primary caregiver roles that get
defined are the activities typically undertaken by women such as
breastfeeding. No weight is given to the father's primary caretaker roles
like earning money, playing with the children, encouraging physical and
sports activities, coaching a team, etc.


You have stated fathers don't want to care for their children. This
article
says pressure from men's groups have caused changes in custody decisions
and
men are still concerned the best interest of the child custody standard,
as
applied by judges, is nothing more than a disguised version of the old
primary caregiver standard.

I didnt state that ALL fathers dont want to care fo their children.

It also makes the following statement about your groups:

"The current practice by advocates for small,
special interest groups for influencing legislation is to selectively use
a
certain research finding to bolster a political, or gender-linked point of
view, while ignoring other data. Such practices make it very difficult for
legislators or judges to achieve a balanced, informed view."

Nice try to make it sound like this is a tactic used by father's rights
groups only. Dr. Kelly's quote in context includes her comments about the
extent to which social science findings should be used in determining
custody standards. She did not name any groups that use the tactic of
presenting narrowly selected data to advance an agenda, but she implied both
sides have used this approach. And her point is a convergence of research
findings ahs started to lead the dialogue among those who are more
comprehensive and thoughtful.



You have stated a father's primary role is to pay CS. This article says
fathers play a significant caretaking role within the intact family and
fathers should have an expanded role in the children's lives after
divorce.

I NEVER said this. I said that the NCP should pay support. If you are
referring to the comments made about the stupid unilateral theory, well of
course I would say MEN. Especially when people say things like "women
force
men to pay" or "women have unilaterial decisions". What else would anyone
respond with if they didnt agree?? I responded with MEN should be
financial
responsible for their children. How is that saying its their "primary
role
to pay CS???"

You have made it very clear it is your opinion men have not accepted their
financial responsibilities for children, and you have posted numerous
sources purported to show men don't pay CS. That tactic is exactly what was
pointed out in the paragraph above, i.e. presenting selected data in an
attempt to sway the debate in favor of an agenda.



You have stated children are much better off with their mothers. This
article says children feel a sense of sadness over the lose of frequent
contact with their fathers.

Again ive NEVER said this either, I have said that children should have a
"homebase" and have also said that BOTH parents should have access to
their
children. I said that the primary caregiver in most cases is the mother,
which is the truth. Ive said that their are good and bad PC's, good and
bad
NCP's.

The only way mothers can be the primary caregiver in most cses is to
narrowly define the role of primary caregiver to mother-provided activities
only. Dr. Kelly is saying that is a disservice to the children and the
children suffer repercussions in the long term from this biased approach.
Dr. Kelly is also saying access needs to be adjusted over time and parents
change over time and so should custody orders.


You have stated fathers run away and ignore their children. This
article
says 25% of children of divorce see their father at least once a week,
and
only 10% haven't seen their father in the past year.

Ive never said ALL FATHERS.. Ive always said SOME. SOME = 10%. Ive made
statements about SOME fathers not providing support for their children on
consistant basis ..

You are mistakenly associating visitation and access with providing support.
They are two different things. However, other research has shown that when
access and visitation is not a problem support for children, both monatary
and psychological, goes up.



You have stated judges make appropriate custody decisions based on the
facts
at the time the parents separate. This article says judicial education
is
needed to enable judges to understand the developmentally-sensitive
visiting
and custody plans for children of different ages and to adjust custody
and
visitation plans based on the children's ages.


Ive said over and over and over and over and over that this system is
screwed up. This article doesnt "favor" anyones views. Its an overview
of
what has happened with custody in the US. Starting with men thinking
women
and children were property to the changing views and trends of today.
Thats
it, nothing more.

It wasn't what men thought - it was the law before the industrial revolution
began when men started to work outside of the family farm or the local town.
Dr. Kelly makes it very clear that the way we got to the current screwed up
system was because of the intense pressure in the 60's and 70's to adopt
laws that retained the maternal custody preferences plus gave more gender
favorable treatment to women who were entering the workforce in large
numbers and exercising their option to use no-fault divorce. The irony is
the feminists who fought so hard for these changes and for gender equity are
now the greatest opponents to men's claims of sexual discrimination and lack
of equal protection under the current laws.