Well, call me lazy, but I've only read some of the thread.

Joelle, I think you're making sense.

Bebe, I know you know, but Joelle's not on your ass, okay? She's not
really even talking to or about you. Your experiences are totally in
the picture, they count, and they've got something to offer, but you
need to lose the defensiveness. Joelle can get up your neck, but she's
not malicious. She's sincere and she does make sense.

Joelle, you're not the only one, I guarantee you. Quite a few of us
have been through agonising depression and medication and grief and
bereavement and pain with our kids. It's a bit minimising of that to
have you say you're the only one, IMO. Still, you make a ton of sense,
as you often do.

Sly, here's the thing:

You're gonna get tons of advice. You're gonna get even more judgement.
Everyone figures they know, and some of them do, but none of them do.
Bottom line: you've got to go with your gut. And even, subterranean,
bottom line: you've got to stay with it, thick or thin, no matter
what. Because the staying with it, however imperfectly, and however
hard, is the thing. It's what matters in the end.

Mine kicked in the door one time, after we agreed, in a rational
moment, that when she lost the plot I should lock her into her
bedroom. Another time, I nailed the window shut. Had to borrow a
ladder to do it. Can't tell you how many times I had her in holds - to
keep her from the razor blades, to keep her from the window - to keep
her from who she thought she was. Ever heard the P!NK song, 'I'm a
Hazard to Myself'? That was her theme song. Had her in holds on the
floor long past where any professional (which I am) would've tried a
one person hold. Called the cops one time when she lasted longer than
I did. Sat on the floor of her friend's house and refused to leave for
five hours one time, when she ran and I wouldn't give up. Spent
countless hours in hospital...spent one nasty night in the ICU waiting
to see if the intentional overdose would be a win or lose. Left home
to get her care. Yada, yada, yada.....

She's good now. Not totally healed, but good. Aware. Clear on whose
life it is, and who's in charge of it. Clear on who will make it or
break it. And when she decides to talk about it, which isn't often,
there's this one refrain....

'You stayed with me. You stuck it out.' I've said, "You'll never get
rid of me. You think that stunt will run me off? Dream on. I'm a
limpet. You're never gonna run me off. I'm your mother and you can't
run off your mother. We're like crazy glue. We're like a bad penny. No
matter what you do, I'm gonna be around. So quit trying." And she
heard me..through all of it, she heard me. She knew I was there.

If I could give you anything, it would be heart and strength and
courage and everything else you need, just to hang on to the precipice
when it feels like you're going over, because that's what they need,
and that's ultimately what we can give.

And eventually, they know what you did. They really do. They know you
hung in there, they know you gave a crap, they know you were alive
with them, and that's what they needed, to find their own lives. It's
excruciatingly, agonizingly, desperately hard. But it's worth it, it's
possible, and it's what you can do. So hang in there. Platitude number
six is available to your right. (platitude #6 says: take care of
yourself, find time for yourself, don't beat yourself up, yada yada
yada, like you have control, right?) But hard as it is, know it's
worth it, and know you can.

Joelle has.

I have.

Bebe has.

Others have.

You can.

Be well.

Cele