"Chris" wrote in message
...
.
"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
snip

What, exactly, became THEIR choice?

Raising the child together, Chris.

Nice topic change. We are discussing the choice to give birth;
remember?

Now we weren't. This is what I said

"But I am talking here about a MARRIED MAN who chose to have children
with his wife, who raised and cared for those children for years and
years--then
suddenly decides he does not want to be a father any more and wants
to
use
the **you chose to bring the children into the world, so it's your
responsibility to take care of
them*** argument. The fact that the woman could have chosen to abort
15
years previously
**is no longer in play at that point.****

That is not a discussion about birth. It is a discussion about men
being
able to walk away from children at any time he chooses--even a decade
or
more later-- because he did not give birth to them.

You commented on the mother's freedom to choose abortion (which
includes
the
choice to give birth) being long past thus no longer in play. I
responded
in
agreement stating that the responsibility for her choice vanishes. Not
sure
how or why, but somehow POOF, it's gone. And just what choice do you
think
I
was referring to?

Who knows, Chris. You like to twist things around to avoid the point.

You stated: " The fact that the woman
could have chosen to abort..." which implies the choice to give birth.

I responded: "... the responsibility for one's sole
choice (at least for mothers)..." concerning the choice that is "no longer
in play".

Since the choice of abortion is irrelevant to this forum, the only choice
left is the woman's choice to give birth. No twisting on MY part.

Nonstop twisting on your part, Chris. The point has always been that,
depspite the woman's right to abort or drop infant off at safe haven, once
the man chooses to raise his children with mom, he has no further right to
opt out. Just like mom has no further right to opt out.


And
the point is: In no way is it right to say that, because a woman CAN
choose
to abort a child, a man will never have any responsibility toward that
child
because he CANNOT choose to abort.

But wait a minute, I thought the topic was about men walking away from
children, not her choice regarding abortion? Make up your mind.

chuckle You do like to tapdance, Chris. I repeat: once the man chooses
to raise his children with mom, he has no further right to opt out. Just
like mom has no further right to opt out.


How does a woman having the choice to
abort relieve a man of any responibility toward that child, Chris?

No one is responsible for a choice which they are incapable of making; a
concept I grasped before the training wheels were off my bike.

Exactly what I disagree with, Chris. Once the choice to raise that child
has been made, the man is as responsible for the woman. A man cannot say,
15 years down the road "I am done with this--I did not give birth to these
childre, so I have no responsibility toward them."


THEY made the choice and commitment to
do that. THEY made the choice and commitment to be parents. Just
because
the child did not grow in the father's womb does not make him any
less
of
a
parent than the mother!

Nor did I claim so.

But you have said that, because the man did not give birth, he should
be
entitled to walk away scot free any time he chooses to.

Correction: That is what the GOVERNMENT people say by inference.

And YOU choose to take it and run with it and say that no man should ever
have any responsibility toward a child.

Not even close. If a man chooses to accept such responsibility, more power
to him.

Ah, but you also say that he can choose to walk away at any time. THAT is
where I deiagree with you, Chris.