Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 11:22:53 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:01:16 GMT, Holger Dansk
wrote:
The fact that people in parts of Africa own slaves
or commit atrocities is equally irrelevant--the civilizations
you admire having created things of "importance" (Greeks,
Romans, et al.) did the same things. Nor are these behaviors
limited to sub-Saharan Africa in modern times.

Well, now, we are talking about today, not thousands of years
ago, etc.

What other countries have slaves today. I'm sure there may be a
few if you look real hard.

Today, black people have black slaves in Mauritania, southwest of
Algeria.

I knew there would be another savage place that had slavery.

De factor slavery still exists in the US. This particular acticle
from February of this year discusses slavery/human bondage in
Florida:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/02/...rafficking.ap/. Of
course, it's not legal, but I'm not sure it's legal in Mauritania,
either.

That's silly. We're not talking about prostitution to pay off
debts, etc.

Oh, so it's okay to sell people into slavery if they owe you money? Gotcha.

They have the real thing in Mauritania and have had it
for thousands of years in Sudan. Lots of children slaves.

So what? "High" cultures the world over (and particularly in Europe) had
slavery (and children slaves) for thousands of years. One of the reasons
that the wealthy in the Greek and Roman culture (who produced most of the
art and literature that we admire today) *were* wealthy was because they
relied on slave labor to produce surplus goods and earn their money for
them. Wow, what a wonderful achievement, eh?

So, is Florida a "savage" place, too?

I'm sure they have doo doo too.

But, that's about all the savages in Africa have produced for
thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of years.

Nonsense. From http://www.worldbank.org/afr/finding...sh/find11.htm:
"Africa's rich and varied cultural heritage finds expression in a wide
variety of arts and crafts. Cultural property is preserved in
paleontological, archaeological, historical, and sacred sites, as well as in
museums, residences, and the daily life of the people. African archaeology
traces the history of human evolution from its very beginning, recording
such significant cultural achievements as the development and use of tools,
the independent invention of agriculture, long distance trade, fine arts as
illustrated by early rock paintings, metalworking, and urban settlements.
Contemporary architecture, paintings, sculptures, textiles, and other
cultural artifacts draw on a rich variety of traditions, many of which are
still an integral part of daily life.

Many thousands of cultural sites have been identified in Africa, often
clustered along coastal areas, river basins, or major transportation axes.
Many others may exist unknown to the outside world. Archaeological studies
conducted as part of project environmental assessments can provide valuable
information concerning the nature and distribution of human activity in the
area in ancient times. Such surveys have been conducted, for example, in the
Volta Basin, in the area to be flooded by the Kafue Dam in Zambia, as part
of the Lesotho Highlands Water Project, and for the Tuli Block Roads Project
in Botswana.

The UNESCO World Heritage Convention has been ratified by 28 African
countries, listed in the handbook. Under the convention, international
assistance can be secured by governments to facilitate the protection of
sites that have been registered as World Heritage Sites. Currently listed
World Cultural Heritage sites in Africa include the royal palaces of Abomey,
Benin; the rock churches of Ethiopia; Ashante traditional buildings in
Ghana; the ancient towns of Djenne and Timbuktu and the cliff of Mandiagara
in Mali; the island of Mozambique, Mozambique; Goree Island in Senegal; the
ruins of Kilwa Kisiwani and Songo Mnara, Tanzania; and Great Zimbabwe and
Khami Ruins National Monuments in Zimbabwe."
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Sin (Vernon, 2), Misery (Aurora, 4), and the Rising Son (Julian, 6)

Aurora (in the bathroom with her dad)--"It looks like an elephant, Daddy."
Me (later)--"You should feel flattered."

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman