On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:05:21 -0700, "Circe" wrote:

Holger Dansk wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:35:26 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 11:22:53 -0700, "Circe"
wrote:
Holger Dansk wrote:
Well, now, we are talking about today, not thousands of years
ago, etc.

What other countries have slaves today. I'm sure there may be
a
few if you look real hard.

Today, black people have black slaves in Mauritania, southwest
of
Algeria.

I knew there would be another savage place that had slavery.

De factor slavery still exists in the US. This particular acticle
from February of this year discusses slavery/human bondage in
Florida:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/02/...rafficking.ap/. Of
course, it's not legal, but I'm not sure it's legal in
Mauritania,
either.

That's silly. We're not talking about prostitution to pay off
debts, etc.

Oh, so it's okay to sell people into slavery if they owe you
money? Gotcha.

They have the real thing in Mauritania and have had it
for thousands of years in Sudan. Lots of children slaves.

So what? "High" cultures the world over (and particularly in
Europe) had slavery (and children slaves) for thousands of years.

Well, we are talking about now. (today)

And that matters why, exactly?

Well, some cultures have learned that slavery is not a good thing.

Who else still has slavery
other than the blacks in Sudan and Mauritania?

People all over the world, hon. Legally or illegally, slavery exists on
every part of the globe. Deal with it.

So, you don't know of any other countries and/or cultures.

One of the reasons that the wealthy in the Greek and Roman culture
(who produced most of the art and literature that we admire today)
*were* wealthy was because they
relied on slave labor to produce surplus goods and earn their
money for
them.

The Greeks had a great civilization. Much greater than the Romans.

So, you view Republican democracy--which the Romans invented and upon which
all modern systems of democracy are based--as not a particularly great
accomplishment?

Thomas Jefferson and James Madison studied Aristotle. Aristotle was
Greek. The Romans did not invent anything much. They were pretty good
engineers. The aqueducts were nice.

"Aristotle, who was a student of Greek philosopher Plato, praised reason
and moderation as practical guides to life. Known to medieval
intellectuals as simply “the Philosopher,” Aristotle is possibly the
greatest thinker in Western history and the single greatest influence on
Western intellectual development."
Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2002. © 1993-2001 Microsoft
Corporation. All rights reserved.

Jefferson also studied John Locke, an English philosopher who studied
Aristotle.

"James Madison, often called the father of the U.S. Constitution,
defined a republic in terms similar to those of Aristotle's polity. In
his view, republics were systems of government that permitted direct or
indirect control by the people over those who govern. He did, however,
warn against the effects of “majority factions” and emphasized the
rights of minorities.

The Madisonian concept of republicanism parallels Aristotle's vision of
polity in many important dimensions, and both are essentially different
from Plato's. Madison and Aristotle were concerned with the means by
which just and stable rule by the many could be secured. To this end
Aristotle relied on a predominant middle class, Madison on an “extended”
republic, in which varied interests would check and control one another.
Madison also emphasized election of representatives by the people. These
representatives, he believed, would be less likely to sacrifice the
“public good” than the majority of the people. “Pure democracies,” in
which the people ruled directly, Madison wrote, “have ever been
spectacles of turbulence and contention.”"

Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2002. © 1993-2001 Microsoft
Corporation. All rights reserved.




There was architecture.

"The importance of Greek art and architecture for the history of
Western civilization can hardly be overstated, for the Greeks
established many of the most enduring themes, attitudes, and
forms of Western culture.

Pish-tosh. How many modern buildings do you see that look like Greek
temples? How many do you see that use domes? Now, who figured out the dome?
(Hint: not the Greeks.)

Nonsense. From
http://www.worldbank.org/afr/finding...sh/find11.htm:
"Africa's rich and varied cultural heritage finds expression in a
wide
variety of arts and crafts. Cultural property is preserved in
paleontological, archaeological, historical, and sacred sites, as
well as in
museums, residences, and the daily life of the people. African
archaeology
traces the history of human evolution from its very beginning,
recording
such significant cultural achievements as the development and use
of tools,
the independent invention of agriculture,

Invented agriculture? Heheheheheheheheheh. Really????????? Did
they put a fish in the hole with corn seeds to make it grow better like
the American aborigines?

Of course not, since they didn't *have* corn in Africa (or, indeed, anywhere
else in the so-called Old World). You've just demonstrated, yet again, your
ignorance.

They had corn in America.

"Corn is generally regarded as the greatest agricultural contribution of
American Indians to the world's diet. It was the major food source for
many native groups throughout North and South America. Corn is descended
from teosinte, a wild grass that some eight thousand to fifteen thousand
years ago began to be modified by human selection. It was probably
domesticated in northern Mexico and introduced into the American
Southwest by about 4000 b.c. It was a relative latecomer in the Midwest,
appearing sometime around 200 b.c."

http://college.hmco.com/history/read...odandcuisi.htm

The rest of your rant is similar nonsense, since it is not based on any fact
whatsoever but on your pitiful rantings and ravings. When you're willing to
support your claim that Africans never invented or did anything of value
with actual evidence of the facts, then maybe we'll sit up and take notice.

If they produced something, please tell us what it was. We are
listening.

Holger

http://www.mindspring.com/~holger1/holger1.htm