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Old June 27th 03, 02:01 AM
Bob Whiteside
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Default Where are all the pro- "child support" (backdoor alimony) folks?


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
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"Dave" dave@freedoms-door wrote in message
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Indyguy1 wrote:

Dave wrote:

snip to

But why do men fail to organize and protest?

I have a theory on this. It's because of the way so many have

been
raised.
Women have traditionally been the organizers in families. They

see
to
it
that
the vacations, Dr. appts, home repairs, etc. are booked, the

family
events are
attended, etc. Boys grow into men that have seen their mothes

be
the
organizers
and then marry women who continue the pattern.

The best way to stop this is for parents to stop raising boys

to
expect
this of
women and stop raising girls to accept this as their solo role

as
women.
Do it
by example and in word.

I'm doing my share.

Mrs Indyguy


I have some theories too, and they're very different from Mrs.
Indyguy's. I think that very few men are willing to come out

and
openly
stand up for the interests of men, in situations where those

interests
are entirely the opposite of women -- as is the case in most

domestic
relations matters.

Bear in mind too that men who fight the system are subject to the

very
real
threat of jail time as well as losing their worldly possessions

just
because
they are standing up to the system. Women, on the other hand, at

the
very
worst would simply be told to just "shut the f___ up". Not much to

lose
there.

Why do you say that? Why would they go to jail or lose their

worldly
possessions because they protested against the system? Now, if

their
protest was in the form of refusing to pay child support, then I can

see
where that might be true. But organizing and picketing, etc--why

would
that
merit jail time? And if women were out there picketing with them,

why
do
you think the women would get different treatment? Do you have any
examples
of this happening?

I was held in contempt of court and sanctioned for trying to stand up

to
the
system on three occasions. One time I was in contempt for attempting

the
"re-litigate" an issue. Another time I was in contempt for "dragging

my
ex-spouse back into court." And finally, I was held in contempt for
"failing to inform the court my ex-spouse was having trouble

transferring
an
asset to her name." In everyone of these examples the judge ignored

her
own
order in the decree and held me accountable with sanctions for trying

to
get
the decree implemented as written and signed.


Did you have to spend any time in jail time for contempt or did you just
have to pay a fine?


Neither. The judge ordered me to deliver the proceeds from a retirement
account to my ex's attorney within 24 hours and have that attorney contact
her by phone, or she would issue a bench warrant for my arrest. By
liquidating the retirement account to stay out of jail, I was hit with a
$21,500 tax liability for taking a premature retirement distribution. I

had
signed a written release on the account. My ex's attorney had reported in
writing to my attorney the asset transfer had been completed and no

further
assistance was needed from me, and there would be no need for the

attorneys
to prepare a QDRO for the court to sign. My perspective is I was

penalized
for following the decree, accepting her statements that the transfer was
completed, and accepting her attorney's input no QDRO would be necessary

to
complete the transfer. The judge told me it was all my fault.

I was threatened with jail. I was not fined directly by the court. But

the
penalty imposed by the court was converting a gross before taxes amount to

a
net after taxes amount dollar for dollar. So the penalty was me paying

the
taxes and premature distribution fees liability for my ex because she told
the judge she wouldn't accept an IRA to IRA transfer.

In researching the tax laws, with the help of a tax attorney and several
communications with IRS legal representatives, I found this happens a lot.
When retirement accounts are awarded in property settlements, the

recipient
can refuse to accept the asset into their own IRA account, and the

original
owner of the account is forced to pay the taxes when the account is
liquidated to comply with state court orders.


I forgot one thing I wanted to say. This hearing was just another example
of how lawyers lie in court all the time. Their whole case was based on the
premise I had "hidden" the asset from my ex. I pointed out to the judge my
ex's attorney and I had a detailed meeting on this asset, how to transfer
it, and my desire to gain some level of compensation for protecting the
asset, filing all the required tax returns, etc. to maintain the assets tax
deductibilty. My point was I could have not acted and let the IRS seize the
asset because of her neglect in getting it transferred inot her name.

The attorney lied and told the judge the meeting I cited had never occured
after my ex got all huffy because her attorney had not informed her about
the meeting and our discussions. I was ordered to pay her attorney fees
and we were supposed to have a follow-up hearing to discuss any objections I
might have. The problem for the attorney was the 1 1/2 hour meeting she
denied ever took place was detailed in her client billing records. My ex
was ****ed her attorney dropped the ball in pursuing the attorney fee award.
I told my ex her attorney knew I was going to ask for a reversal of the
prior ruling based on the attorney's intentional misrepresentation of the
facts, for sanctions against her attorney for lying in open court to gain an
advantage for her client, and ask for a referral to the state bar for
additional censure action.

My ex went to her attorney and miraculously the attorney was quick to
write-off all the attorney fees.