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Old October 27th 03, 05:10 AM
Dennis Hancock
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Default Dennis was U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking


"Kane" wrote in message
om...
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 22:43:44 GMT, "Dennis Hancock"
wrote:


"Kane" wrote in message
. com...
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:28:02 -0500, Jon Houts


wrote:


On 11 Oct 2003, Kane wrote:

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Ray Drouillard wrote:

Interesting. All of the prisoners that
he interviewed were spanked as children.


Again, were they 'spanked' or were they beaten?


I believe the researcher, one Fischer out of UOC school of social work
many years ago, was simply looking for spanked.

Your problem is to determine what is spanking and what is beating and
this has been an area of considerable weakness in the claims made by
pro spankers and apologists.


No, the inability to distinguish between the two has been the weakness of
the anti spankers as they, like you refuse to accept that there IS quite a
difference.



What you might never accept as "spanking" might be so to someone else.
I know I have frequently seen those on the pro side describe a
thoroughgoing whipping as "a spanking and well deserved" even when
they are the victim themselves.


Caning was a prevalent practice in earlier centuries and still used in some
countries, but the majority of parents would never consider that, and to use
or ignore the vast differences is being intellectually dishonest on your
part.


It is an area fraught with obstacles.

I go around the issue, much to the consternation for some, by stating
that deliberate punishment of a child is counterproductive to their
learning and their mental health.


You have not shown that in any of your statements. By attempting to do so,
you insult the human intelligence, even at a very young age.

If one were to follow your logic, you can use 'reason' and set 'limits' for
a child who, by your own definitions does not even have the basic instictive
facilities of Pavlov's dog. You are being quite elusive in your tactics and
quite inconsistent.


Learning can be learning to do something, and that can include
learning to do the required developmental work to excell and not be
dysfunctional.

A child spending too much time trying to mind is NOT learning about
things like gravity, light, sound, and other physical phenomena, and
they are sometimes leaving critical areas of the brain undeveloped
through lack of exercise.


Again, total and complete bull**** Kane. HOW, do you teach a child things
such as gravity, light, sound and other physical phenomena, when in your own
words, their minds are not developed enough until the magical age of 6?

You continue to throw out straw men, showing that you are having problems
with some of the 'weak, inconsentency' of us 'apologists'..


I can make a warrior and factory worker by using punishment methods,
but I'd be hard pressed to make a scholar, inventor, or other
intellectual exceller.


Again Kane, more nonsense. I have followed this thread from the beginning,
and NO single person has stated that physical punishment can be used for
intellectual purposes. It seems that only you have that hang up, and it's a
very weak argument considering the reasons many have given supporting
spanking as a method of reinforcing acceptable beahvior.
..


One could do a study of
most of the greats of our society throughtout the past century or so

and
find a large number of them had also been spanked as very young

children.

No one couldn't. The greater the chances of greatness the greater the
chances they were spanked less or not at all, and punishment wasn't
much of a factor in most of their lives. I have worked with
maladjusted children who were punished well who had everything wrong
going on with them from socially malajusted to poor problem solving,
to severe thinking errors, to being murderous homocidal maniacs.

Where are your studies on this Kane? You cannot disprove a simple fact that
spanking, caning, and even beating has been a well accepted principle
throughout the history of the world as a whole. To deny that is to bury
one's head in the sand and say ONLY the great leaders were not spanked, when
that is a present day condition, only pounced upon by psychologists and
doomsayers as to the evils of corporal punishment.

They don't come from being NOT punished.

What does that study show?


Well, since you said yourself that one "could" do such a study why
don't you find one?

I'll save you the trouble. None has been done to my knowledge. There
is speculation only.

No Kane.. I can do MY observations, which seems to be the only thing you
have going for you. MY observations has shown that the lack of discipline
at early ages (ie 'talking' to a child without reinforcement) leads to young
adults who are not ready for life in the real world. They are used to
bribing and whining and getting their way without consequences. Hardly
helping the child in the long run.

I can offer you my observations in the hope that you too will look
above your current knowledge and consider some other possibilities.
After all, what harm would it do? You could always return, better
armed perhaps, to defend spanking and punishment parenting.

Have a good one,

Kane


I think it has been defended quite well Kane, considering you continue to
throw out straw men, and sidestep the issues.

I certainly have not attempted to try to 'impress' others with an
intellectual approach or outright stretches of the imagination through your
own delusions, but simply stated the facts as seen through my own
observations. It took quite a long while before you finally admitted you
are quite the b/ser and are only misreading flawed reports and using your
own observations to base your opinions on.