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Old July 2nd 03, 04:18 PM
Chris
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Default Where are all the pro- "child support" (backdoor alimony) folks?


"Dave" dave@freedoms-door wrote in message
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Indyguy1 wrote:

Dave wrote:

snip to

But why do men fail to organize and protest?

I have a theory on this. It's because of the way so many

have
been
raised.
Women have traditionally been the organizers in families.

They
see
to
it
that
the vacations, Dr. appts, home repairs, etc. are booked,

the
family
events are
attended, etc. Boys grow into men that have seen their

mothes
be
the
organizers
and then marry women who continue the pattern.

The best way to stop this is for parents to stop raising

boys
to
expect
this of
women and stop raising girls to accept this as their solo

role
as
women.
Do it
by example and in word.

I'm doing my share.

Mrs Indyguy


I have some theories too, and they're very different from

Mrs.
Indyguy's. I think that very few men are willing to come

out
and
openly
stand up for the interests of men, in situations where those
interests
are entirely the opposite of women -- as is the case in most
domestic
relations matters.

Bear in mind too that men who fight the system are subject to

the
very
real
threat of jail time as well as losing their worldly

possessions
just
because
they are standing up to the system. Women, on the other hand,

at
the
very
worst would simply be told to just "shut the f___ up". Not

much
to
lose
there.

Why do you say that? Why would they go to jail or lose their

worldly
possessions because they protested against the system? Now, if

their
protest was in the form of refusing to pay child support, then I

can
see
where that might be true. But organizing and picketing,

etc--why
would
that
merit jail time? And if women were out there picketing with

them,
why
do
you think the women would get different treatment? Do you have

any
examples
of this happening?

I was held in contempt of court and sanctioned for trying to stand

up
to
the
system on three occasions. One time I was in contempt for

attempting
the
"re-litigate" an issue. Another time I was in contempt for

"dragging
my
ex-spouse back into court." And finally, I was held in contempt

for
"failing to inform the court my ex-spouse was having trouble
transferring
an
asset to her name." In everyone of these examples the judge

ignored
her
own
order in the decree and held me accountable with sanctions for

trying
to
get
the decree implemented as written and signed.


Did you have to spend any time in jail time for contempt or did you

just
have to pay a fine?

Neither. The judge ordered me to deliver the proceeds from a

retirement
account to my ex's attorney within 24 hours and have that attorney

contact
her by phone, or she would issue a bench warrant for my arrest. By
liquidating the retirement account to stay out of jail, I was hit with

a
$21,500 tax liability for taking a premature retirement distribution.

I
had
signed a written release on the account. My ex's attorney had

reported
in
writing to my attorney the asset transfer had been completed and no

further
assistance was needed from me, and there would be no need for the

attorneys
to prepare a QDRO for the court to sign. My perspective is I was

penalized
for following the decree, accepting her statements that the transfer

was
completed, and accepting her attorney's input no QDRO would be

necessary
to
complete the transfer. The judge told me it was all my fault.

I was threatened with jail. I was not fined directly by the court.

But
the
penalty imposed by the court was converting a gross before taxes

amount
to
a
net after taxes amount dollar for dollar. So the penalty was me

paying
the
taxes and premature distribution fees liability for my ex because she

told
the judge she wouldn't accept an IRA to IRA transfer.

In researching the tax laws, with the help of a tax attorney and

several
communications with IRS legal representatives, I found this happens a

lot.
When retirement accounts are awarded in property settlements, the

recipient
can refuse to accept the asset into their own IRA account, and the

original
owner of the account is forced to pay the taxes when the account is
liquidated to comply with state court orders.


I forgot one thing I wanted to say. This hearing was just another

example
of how lawyers lie in court all the time. Their whole case was based on

the
premise I had "hidden" the asset from my ex. I pointed out to the judge

my
ex's attorney and I had a detailed meeting on this asset, how to

transfer
it, and my desire to gain some level of compensation for protecting the
asset, filing all the required tax returns, etc. to maintain the assets

tax
deductibilty. My point was I could have not acted and let the IRS seize

the
asset because of her neglect in getting it transferred inot her name.

The attorney lied and told the judge the meeting I cited had never

occured
after my ex got all huffy because her attorney had not informed her

about
the meeting and our discussions. I was ordered to pay her attorney

fees
and we were supposed to have a follow-up hearing to discuss any

objections
I
might have. The problem for the attorney was the 1 1/2 hour meeting she
denied ever took place was detailed in her client billing records. My

ex
was ****ed her attorney dropped the ball in pursuing the attorney fee

award.
I told my ex her attorney knew I was going to ask for a reversal of the
prior ruling based on the attorney's intentional misrepresentation of

the
facts, for sanctions against her attorney for lying in open court to

gain
an
advantage for her client, and ask for a referral to the state bar for
additional censure action.

My ex went to her attorney and miraculously the attorney was quick to
write-off all the attorney fees.


If I am getting ****ed off as I read your story I could only imagine the
anger and frustration you must have felt. I can believe it as I went
through some similar outrageous stuff from my ex's lawyer in the meetings.
Luckily all this happened and was worked out at the meetings and not in
court, since what they were asking was so completely outrageous including
making claims on money never existed. All this from a 8 month marriage

from
a woman that came into it with nothing.

It was just so outrageous I could not contain myself and let my ex's

lawyer
have it during the meeting. If it would have happened in court with the
Judge going along with it I would have certainly ended up in jail for
contempt. But I made it pretty clear to them that I would disappear,
become a fugitive or end up in jail if they persist taking it into
court. Either way I made it clear they were not going to get away with
screwing me.

My lawyer told me that this is normal, that my ex wife will be encouraged

by
her lawyer to make false allegations and claims because that usually seals
the financial, child support and custody issues. Always go for more above
and beyond since the Judge will meet some where in the middle. I have

been
to a number of
lawyers since then and they all told me this is the way it goes. That
lawyers will encourage their clients to make up false allegations and
financial claims, etc so they will have the upper hand in court

Back then I was pretty naive and ignorant just like many in this country
about what the system encourages women to do. When I confronted my

ex-wife
about the false allegations and claims privately she said that is what she
had to do to win custody and that is what her lawyer recommended despite

all
of it being false. (too bad I did not have it on tape). She was like come
on didn't your lawyer tell you it would be like this and what women do to
win in divorce proceedings. She said even her parents told her to make
stuff up so she would get the upper hand. (said like I am some fool not
to believe this is all quite normal and I should not let it bother me).

Up
to that point in my life,
I had lived a life right out of Leave it to Beaver and stuff like this

only
happened on TV or on Jerry Springer. So this all was pretty devastating.

I think this is why they are allowed to get away with it since most people
that have not been through it or have had a loved one who has been through
do not believe it. It just seems too outrageous to happen in real life

and
in America. So I think when people do hear about how NCPs are treated

they
believe it is rare
and not an every day occurrence.


I used to be one of those people.


It is bad enough being separated from your children, losing your wife,
losing your income, assetts but false allegations on top of that. It was
absolutely devastating and I will never forgive our government for

creating
laws that encourage it. Some day I hope to join with others and through
legal means of our Constitution make all those mother ****ers
in our government pay for what they do to fathers in this country.


Aside from the obvious (making BIG $$$), the compelling force driving the
actions of these yahoos is to prove they are the stronger creature; this all
to impress women and control other men. Not unlike the animal kingdom where
you see the larger more robust animal bullying the other animals in order to
win over the female. In humans, they do it in order to prove that theirs is
bigger than yours. Bullying is a SURE sign of self-doubt (i.e. inferiority
complex).