Greg Hanson wrote:

LaVonne said
I try very hard not to label people or use disrespectful
names. I'd like to replace "The Plant" with "Fern." Fern,
can you address these questions?

You try not to swear and whitewash like Kane?

Where has Kane sworn and whitewashed?

But you would like Kane's foul questions answered?

Yes, I would like Kane's questions answered. I saw nothing foul about
them. Fern is great at making sweeping accusations and providing no
evidence, and at evading all challenges to her agenda and her posted
propaganda. If her posts are so filled with truth, why does she decline
to answer challenges?

Kane and Dan can't even get a simple fact like the
childs stated age correct, referring to the child many
times as 6 when she was 7 and older throughout this.
I have pointed out the factual error, but they don't care.
They have since repeated the incorrect age repeatedly.

I can see that the discrepancy between the age of 6 and the age of 7
would be a huge determinant in post content.

They have both tried to act like there was some
improper sexuality based only on minimal family
nakedness in the bathroom. One oddity is that Kane
revealed his almost nudist views of nakedness,
admitting he walked around with his adult male
privates exposed to young children.
I am much more conservative than that, yet what little
bit of "in passing" nakedness took place has been
blown up because DAN has some huge personal hangups.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Obviously you have had a
run-in with CPS, though.

Neither Dan nor Kane seems to care that CPS here
has never seen anything sexual to be an issue
in my families case.

I know nothing about your family's case. I am not commenting on
individual cases. I am objecting the the overt animosity which is
resulting from absurd generalizations to the entire child protection
agency. I am also objecting to the idea that because mistakes have been
made, children are no longer worthy of protection.

When they compared me to Father Geoghan, I did
not see you object. Where was your civility then?

I post on alt.parenting.spanking only. There are individuals who
cross-post with alt.support.child-protective-services. This was either
not cross-posted or I missed it. I do have a life and a full time job.
I do not read all posts that appear. Therefore, if this was posted to
alt.parenting.spanking, I did not see it.

Nobody in the ChildAbuse Industry wants to speak up
and demand that false information needs to be corrected.
That would be seen as "in favor of child abusers".

This is what I mean by over generalization. Whenever you use terms like
"nobody" the burden of proof is on you. And it is a claim you cannot
prove, because you cannot possibly know the record of every individual
involved with CPS.

Your temporary ""civilized"" behavior in a forum
that Kane labeled "A Plant's Motivation" is
certainly worthy of question.

You are free to question anything you choose. However, I would like
examples of my uncivilized behavior, since you view my response to Kane
as only temporary civilized. I'll wait for your response.

There are a bunch of people in here who are
trying to defende themselves or our society from
unwarranted attacks from CPS. There is another
bunch in here who seems to want to assert that
all accused are guilty, just because they are
biological parents and they are accused.

I don't post to alt.support.child-protective-services. I'm posting to
alt.parenting.spanking, and yours is a cross-post. Who are the "in
here" people? Be that as it may be, you are over generalizing again.
Yes, I'm sure there are a "bunch of people" who are trying to defend
themselves from CPS allegations. Some of the bunch may be involved in a
legitimate CPS mistake. Others may be objecting for other reasons.
I've met individuals who are defending themselves from what they
consider unwarranted attacks from CPS who have disciplined their
children in ways that resulted in hospitalization over burns and broken
bones.

If the people under attack utter any offensive words,
it should be more understandeable than when the
other major faction insults and whitewashes.

When people are under attack it certainly is understandable. It's a
human reaction. The parent I knew who disciplined her child by forcing
her hands in boiling water for touching the stove was under attack. I
understood that. I also understood that what she did was unacceptable.

Kane is not under attack.

Kane is attacked all the time on the ng for his views. I also know that
Kane does not need my defense. He is perfectly capable of defending
himself!

He is connected with CPS. He first asserted that
he had a close relative who works for CPS. Later we
hear that he has experienced this from the inside,
as a child. The age he presents makes that dubious.
He had already shown that he hates bio-parents.
And he sad on a governing board over CPS.

How do you like those ethics?

Fern has repeatedly asserted that I am connected with CPS, which is a
total lie. I have no idea if Kane is connected to CPS and this is
really irrelevant. I'm responding to his posts regarding the protection
of little children.

My fiance' and I want our family back!

I'm sure you do. I have no idea why you lost them in the first place.
Most people want their children back when they loose them. Some people
should not have their children back because children deserve protection,
and sometimes this is from biological parents.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of this post. You and your fiancé
are obviously very angry because CPS became involved in your lives. I
understand that. I don't know why you lost your children.

I'm not on alt.parenting.spanking to defend Kane. Kane doesn't need
defending. His posts speak for themselves. I'm here to say that
children need protection and CPS is needed, in spite of errors CPS has
made. I'm on alt.parenting.spanking to talk about the abusive nature of
hitting a child in the name of discipline, and the need for laws in this
country to change.

LaVonne



Kane is in here denying the WELL known faults of CPS.
He spews his hatred of bio-parents.
He calls us scum.

His good buddy Dan never publicly corrects him.

Ethics give way to some sick strategy for
newsgroup ""stature"".

But that's what smears are all about.

Keep in mind if you think that a parent is smearing
CPS, that an AGENCY has no civil rights, and that
you know very well that CPS does smear parents.

Like a lot of the caseworkers, Kane sees evil
child beating parents every time he sees a child.

Parents see a fear of caseworkers taking their child
away for reasons that don't satisfy the requirements
of the US Constitution. A basic Ethical contract
in our society.

I have personally talked to about 7 Social Workers, shown
them documentary proof, and asked about the ethical
responsibility of Social Workers to demand that known
false information in a Juvenile Court case be corrected.

Many acknowledge the problem.
None want to speak up about it.

So don't wonder why parents under attack are angry
and see CPS as a giant RACKET, an industry, a fraud, etc.

But look at Kane's posts.
He acts like he is the renaissance man. Some model.
He smears, slurs, demeans, insults, and what he seems
to think is reasoned discourse is just grandiose insult.

My personal view is that Dan and Kane have turned
this newsgroup into an insufferable mess so that
it is of no use to any parent falsely accused.
I asked Dan and Neal to stop fighting in here long ago.
Neal left. (And Dan acted triumphant! What a twit.)
Dan went from one flame war to another in here.
Apparently that is the only way Dan communicates.

The effect on many parents seeking help is that they
feel like CPS is watching anything they say in here,
and a few have had comments in here used in court
to slam them as if they violated privacy laws.
Even parents smart enough to keep names and identifying
details out of this forum are inhibited by the CPS eye.
(Myself, If they brought something from here in, I
would simply demand that they bring the archive of
the ENTIRE newsgroup into evidence, or strike it
all for lack of contextual setting.)

When things got a little sticky for Dan, Kane showed up.
And with the swearing and hostility, I am still not
convinced that Kane is not just Dan's sock puppet.