"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
Tracy wrote:
"Fred" wrote in message
. net...
All I'm asking is that both men and women take responsibility for their
choices. What's wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong with asking both men and women to take
responsibility for their choices, and I'll add actions. It is no
different then my s2bx trying to place blaim on me for his drinking
problem, and prior to me it was his first ex-wife's fault. There are
those who refuse to take responsibility for their actions/choices and
then there those who see they are responsible for their actions/choices.

Exactly.

These boys are the ultimate in sexist selfishness. If they can't control
the woman, they want nothing to do with her ... and their children. And,
of course, that means not having to support the children that they
actively, willingly, and with informed consent participated in
procreating.

"She's being irresponsible!", they bleat, claiming this as justification
for their own claims to irresponsible behavior. Well, even if/when she
*is* being irresponsible, that absolutely does not justify their being
irresponsible in turn. This is simply a copout.

And for the record, I refer to them as "boys" because in my opinion they
are not men.

Men take responsibility.

Fred - I'm liking you more and more each day! You are right, men take
responsibility and boys don't!

My counselor described my s2bx as a person who is suffering from Narcissism.
When I looked up the disorder I found my s2bx's described perfectly...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narciss...ality_disorder

"These traits will lead narcissistic parents to be very intrusive in some
ways, and entirely neglectful in others. The children are punished if they
do not respond adequately to the parents' needs. This punishment may take a
variety of forms, including physical abuse, angry outbursts, blame, attempts
to instill guilt, emotional withdrawal, and criticism. Whatever form it
takes, the purpose of the punishment is to enforce compliance with the
parents' narcissistic needs."

Examples include my s2bx blaming his middle child for the break up of our
marriage. I had to talk to my step-son before they moved out to reassure
him that I don't blame him, and I want him to know it within himself that
the break up was not his fault. My s2bx told his 11 year old daughter "you
are acting just like your mother, a slut." Not to mention the several times
me and his friends would cringe when he would remind his kids out of anger
that he never wanted them, and the only reason he ended up with custody was
to avoid paying child support & alimony to their mother. He has called both
his sons worthless, plus many other damaging things. Of course he was
always under the influence of alcohol during his angry outbursts, but
alcohol can't be used as an excuse for such horrifying behavior as a parent,
or even as a husband.

I had to often wonder if I married a man in his 40's or a teenager who just
received his license to drive!

Tracy