deadbeat and enabler list (another thread that went off topic)

Illiana via FamilyKB.com wrote:
Sarah Gray wrote:
"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in *ethical*.

[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
I understand, if that is the case then he is just being a bit of an ass.
Yes; but (HEY, YOU, ILLIANNA!) that doesn't mean that *all* men *want*
to shirk their responsibilities as parents, and not just wallets.

You can't tell by the actions of your ex, so how would you know? I was just
pointing out how you told one person that she didn't deserve child support,
but you do.


I do not recall ever saying that.

How shark like of you to have a friend in the court. I am sure your friend
will make sure that your ex keeps you paid. Must be nice.


I don't have a friend in the court. The 'Friend of the Court' is the
agency that acts as a liaison between parents and the courts regarding
custody and child support issues.

http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/selfhelp/family/foc.htm



--

Sarah Gray

"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
news
Illiana via FamilyKB.com wrote:
Sarah Gray wrote:
"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in *ethical*.

[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
I understand, if that is the case then he is just being a bit of an
ass.
Yes; but (HEY, YOU, ILLIANNA!) that doesn't mean that *all* men *want*
to shirk their responsibilities as parents, and not just wallets.

You can't tell by the actions of your ex, so how would you know? I was
just
pointing out how you told one person that she didn't deserve child
support,
but you do.

I do not recall ever saying that.

How shark like of you to have a friend in the court. I am sure your
friend
will make sure that your ex keeps you paid. Must be nice.


I don't have a friend in the court. The 'Friend of the Court' is the
agency that acts as a liaison between parents and the courts regarding
custody and child support issues.

http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/selfhelp/family/foc.htm


Excellent--posting a cite to prove your facts!

Sarah Gray wrote:
"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in *ethical*.

[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
pointing out how you told one person that she didn't deserve child support,
but you do.

I do not recall ever saying that.

How shark like of you to have a friend in the court. I am sure your friend
will make sure that your ex keeps you paid. Must be nice.

I don't have a friend in the court. The 'Friend of the Court' is the
agency that acts as a liaison between parents and the courts regarding
custody and child support issues.

http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/selfhelp/family/foc.htm

OOOOOH! So in other words, a case worker on your behalf. I don't see the dif
between a friend of the court, and a child support case worker.

--
Message posted via FamilyKB.com
http://www.familykb.com/Uwe/Forums.a...nting/200710/1

"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in message
news:7a4530017a210@uwe...
Sarah Gray wrote:
"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in *ethical*.

[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
pointing out how you told one person that she didn't deserve child
support,
but you do.

I do not recall ever saying that.

How shark like of you to have a friend in the court. I am sure your
friend
will make sure that your ex keeps you paid. Must be nice.

I don't have a friend in the court. The 'Friend of the Court' is the
agency that acts as a liaison between parents and the courts regarding
custody and child support issues.

http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/selfhelp/family/foc.htm

OOOOOH! So in other words, a case worker on your behalf. I don't see the
dif
between a friend of the court, and a child support case worker.

A friend of the court is part of the judicial branch of government. They
deal with the parents to facilitate communication before legal decisions are
made.

A child support case worker is part of the administrative branch of
government. They deal with the parents to implement court decisions after
they have been made.

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in message
news:7a4530017a210@uwe...
Sarah Gray wrote:
"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in
*ethical*.

[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
pointing out how you told one person that she didn't deserve child
support,
but you do.

I do not recall ever saying that.

How shark like of you to have a friend in the court. I am sure your
friend
will make sure that your ex keeps you paid. Must be nice.

I don't have a friend in the court. The 'Friend of the Court' is the
agency that acts as a liaison between parents and the courts regarding
custody and child support issues.

http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/selfhelp/family/foc.htm

OOOOOH! So in other words, a case worker on your behalf. I don't see the
dif
between a friend of the court, and a child support case worker.

A friend of the court is part of the judicial branch of government. They
deal with the parents to facilitate communication before legal decisions
are
made.

A child support case worker is part of the administrative branch of
government. They deal with the parents to implement court decisions after
they have been made.

All "family" court decisions have been made before the litigants even step
foot in such court. The lil' circus that takes place is merely a formality
just to make the "decision" official.

"animal05" wrote in message
news:ub2dnZZ0C8LE_rzanZ2dnUVZ_vTinZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
Chris wrote:

"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
. net...

Chris wrote:

"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
y.net...

Illiana via FamilyKB.com wrote:

Sarah Gray wrote:

"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in *ethical*.


[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]

How is it that you fell it is o.k to trivialize the things that
went

on

during that time to an issue of child support?

a man that impregnates a woman is forced to a parent in the sense

that

he has no post conception rights. I'm not nearly as hard-line about

this

stuff as some folks on here, but I at least can understand their
arguments, geez!


You understand aproval from strangers. Can your ex just sign away his

rights,

and you would let him? Be real, you enjoy the crack pipe too much.
You

were

complaining about $75.00! You change your stand point to gain
approval

from

people who don't care about their own kids, let alone yours.

At least I have my own mind...


My daughter is 5, not a week old. I am not complaining about $75. I am
complaining about my daughter's father *insisting* that I take him to
court over support because he will not agree to a reasonable amount,
which he can afford.

What's wrong with him taking care of her directly just like YOU do?

Better

yet, how about you pay HIM to take care of the child. Heck, if one

parent is

good enough to get paid to care for their child, then BOTH parents are

good

enough for same, no?


He used to, before he moved out of state abruptly. I am not asking him
to pay me to take care of his child. I want him to contribute to the
costs of raising her to a degree that is more equitable.


Nonsense. You simply want him to pay you money for taking care of your
child. The proof that you do NOT believe the arrangement which you are
proposing is equitable lies in the fact that you would NOT be willing to
bestow upon yourself that which you desire upon him. In other words, you
are
unwilling to taste your own medicine.

Hold on there........if he moved voluntarily out of state, he is
essentially abandoning his ability and willingness to be a parent.

How so?

In
those cases, I have no problem with the NCP be assessed CS.

Note- She did not move away from the father.

And that's relevant how?





Hypothesizing about fixing the current statutes to
reflect equity for fathers does not change the responsibilities of men
who have already *chosen* to be part of their children's lives.

--

Sarah Gray



--

Sarah Gray

"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
t...
Chris wrote:
"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
. net...
Chris wrote:
"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
et...
Illiana via FamilyKB.com wrote:
Sarah Gray wrote:
"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in *ethical*.

[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
How is it that you fell it is o.k to trivialize the things that
went
on
during that time to an issue of child support?
a man that impregnates a woman is forced to a parent in the sense
that
he has no post conception rights. I'm not nearly as hard-line about
this
stuff as some folks on here, but I at least can understand their
arguments, geez!

You understand aproval from strangers. Can your ex just sign away
his
rights,
and you would let him? Be real, you enjoy the crack pipe too much.
You
were
complaining about $75.00! You change your stand point to gain
approval
from
people who don't care about their own kids, let alone yours.

At least I have my own mind...

My daughter is 5, not a week old. I am not complaining about $75. I
am
complaining about my daughter's father *insisting* that I take him to
court over support because he will not agree to a reasonable amount,
which he can afford.
What's wrong with him taking care of her directly just like YOU do?
Better
yet, how about you pay HIM to take care of the child. Heck, if one
parent is
good enough to get paid to care for their child, then BOTH parents are
good
enough for same, no?

He used to, before he moved out of state abruptly. I am not asking him
to pay me to take care of his child. I want him to contribute to the
costs of raising her to a degree that is more equitable.

Nonsense. You simply want him to pay you money for taking care of your
child. The proof that you do NOT believe the arrangement which you are
proposing is equitable lies in the fact that you would NOT be willing to
bestow upon yourself that which you desire upon him. In other words, you
are
unwilling to taste your own medicine.


I do not think he is as responsible as I am as a parent.

Which supports my claim.

But not because
I am a woman. If he *had* full custody,

"If" is a big word.

I would ask about expenses and
come up with an agreement that we *submitted* to the court, instead of
them using their formula - if only to ensure that payments are recorded
as child support and not as "gifts". I have de facto primary physical
custody because he left the state with less than a day's notice. Do you
suggest that I send her to live with him primarily, when he's already
shown that he can't manage his money or a household?

I am suggesting that you practice what you preach. Being equitable means
that he is entitled to the SAME parental position as you. Did that answer
your question?

(I haven't even
gotten into all of that.)
I don't want him to pay me for taking care of our child.

Yes you do.

I want him to
contribute an equal share towards food, shelter, clothing, latchkey.

Great! Then allow him to provide such things just like YOU do.
[note: if fathers are EQUAL parents to mothers, then why is it that fathers
need the permission of mothers regarding any interaction with their
children?]

Right now, I have excellent health insurance benefits, so I agreed to
write to the Friend of the Court so that he would not be required to
carry health insurance for her.

--

Sarah Gray

"Chris" wrote in

All "family" court decisions have been made before the litigants even step
foot in such court.

It's foregone conclusion, there is no decision process, just rubber stamps!

The lil' circus that takes place is merely a formality just to make the
"decision" official.

When they rail road a man, it's needs to be do documented for the record.

Chris wrote:

"animal05" wrote in message
news:ub2dnZZ0C8LE_rzanZ2dnUVZ_vTinZ2d@wideopenwest .com...

Chris wrote:


"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
gy.net...


Chris wrote:


"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
igy.net...


Illiana via FamilyKB.com wrote:


Sarah Gray wrote:


"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in *ethical*.


[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]


How is it that you fell it is o.k to trivialize the things that

went

on


during that time to an issue of child support?

a man that impregnates a woman is forced to a parent in the sense

that


he has no post conception rights. I'm not nearly as hard-line about

this


stuff as some folks on here, but I at least can understand their
arguments, geez!


You understand aproval from strangers. Can your ex just sign away his

rights,


and you would let him? Be real, you enjoy the crack pipe too much.

You

were


complaining about $75.00! You change your stand point to gain

approval

from


people who don't care about their own kids, let alone yours.

At least I have my own mind...


My daughter is 5, not a week old. I am not complaining about $75. I am
complaining about my daughter's father *insisting* that I take him to
court over support because he will not agree to a reasonable amount,
which he can afford.

What's wrong with him taking care of her directly just like YOU do?

Better


yet, how about you pay HIM to take care of the child. Heck, if one

parent is


good enough to get paid to care for their child, then BOTH parents are

good


enough for same, no?


He used to, before he moved out of state abruptly. I am not asking him
to pay me to take care of his child. I want him to contribute to the
costs of raising her to a degree that is more equitable.


Nonsense. You simply want him to pay you money for taking care of your
child. The proof that you do NOT believe the arrangement which you are
proposing is equitable lies in the fact that you would NOT be willing to
bestow upon yourself that which you desire upon him. In other words, you

are

unwilling to taste your own medicine.

Hold on there........if he moved voluntarily out of state, he is
essentially abandoning his ability and willingness to be a parent.


How so?

snicker just asking the question shows how one sided you are.



In
those cases, I have no problem with the NCP be assessed CS.

Note- She did not move away from the father.


And that's relevant how?

Because the father abandoned his ability to parent.
If you cannot grasp that simple concept, then you are beyond hope.





Hypothesizing about fixing the current statutes to
reflect equity for fathers does not change the responsibilities of men
who have already *chosen* to be part of their children's lives.

--

Sarah Gray


--

Sarah Gray

Chris wrote:

"DB" wrote in message
news
"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in


It's pointless withyou to dig up all the facts, but why do so many

loving

nurturing mothers butcher their children?

For the same reasons many loving nurturing fathers butcher, and rape

their

son's and daughters.

When is the last time a father drowned his two daughters in a bath tub?


Or in a lake with a car?


I don't know who is worse, system supports like illi, or the misogynists
like yourself that make all men look bad.

Maybe not drowning, but is the method so important?

http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2...g-car-on-fire/