deadbeat and enabler list (another thread that went off topic)

"Atlanta" wrote in

Hi, am a custodial parent and I have been bashed all over Usenet by
Republicans. I am shocked by the horrendous things they say to me. I
wish I could tell my story, but I can not tell it in public because I
have had my anonymity ripped away from me by a s... head in a
religious group.

Save your boo hoo pity me story for the tree huggers!

Oh wait a minute, there is no trees because they all burnt down.

Had the government not meddled in affairs to prevent this catastrophe with
small controlled burns, perhaps the damage wouldn't have been so wide
spread.

Big Governments aren't too good at solving problems and even worse at
cleaning them up.

In the end, everyone suffers and we all pay for it!

"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
...
Chris wrote:
"animal05" wrote in message
news:ub2dnZZ0C8LE_rzanZ2dnUVZ_vTinZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
Chris wrote:

"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
. net...

Chris wrote:

"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
et...

Illiana via FamilyKB.com wrote:

Sarah Gray wrote:

"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in *ethical*.

[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]

How is it that you fell it is o.k to trivialize the things that
went
on

during that time to an issue of child support?
a man that impregnates a woman is forced to a parent in the sense
that

he has no post conception rights. I'm not nearly as hard-line
about
this

stuff as some folks on here, but I at least can understand their
arguments, geez!

You understand aproval from strangers. Can your ex just sign away
his
rights,

and you would let him? Be real, you enjoy the crack pipe too much.
You
were

complaining about $75.00! You change your stand point to gain
approval
from

people who don't care about their own kids, let alone yours.

At least I have my own mind...

My daughter is 5, not a week old. I am not complaining about $75. I
am
complaining about my daughter's father *insisting* that I take him
to
court over support because he will not agree to a reasonable
amount,
which he can afford.
What's wrong with him taking care of her directly just like YOU do?
Better

yet, how about you pay HIM to take care of the child. Heck, if one
parent is

good enough to get paid to care for their child, then BOTH parents
are
good

enough for same, no?

He used to, before he moved out of state abruptly. I am not asking
him
to pay me to take care of his child. I want him to contribute to the
costs of raising her to a degree that is more equitable.

Nonsense. You simply want him to pay you money for taking care of your
child. The proof that you do NOT believe the arrangement which you are
proposing is equitable lies in the fact that you would NOT be willing
to
bestow upon yourself that which you desire upon him. In other words,
you
are
unwilling to taste your own medicine.
Hold on there........if he moved voluntarily out of state, he is
essentially abandoning his ability and willingness to be a parent.

How so?


By putting himself in a position where he has not seen his daughter,

Petitio principii.

let
alone taken her to school, prepared meals for her, played games with
her, bathed her, etc. in over three months.
In
those cases, I have no problem with the NCP be assessed CS.

Note- She did not move away from the father.

And that's relevant how?



Hypothesizing about fixing the current statutes to
reflect equity for fathers does not change the responsibilities of
men
who have already *chosen* to be part of their children's lives.

--

Sarah Gray

--

Sarah Gray






--

Sarah Gray

"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
...
Chris wrote:
"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
t...
Chris wrote:
"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
. net...
Chris wrote:
"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
et...
Illiana via FamilyKB.com wrote:
Sarah Gray wrote:
"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in *ethical*.

[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
How is it that you fell it is o.k to trivialize the things that
went
on
during that time to an issue of child support?
a man that impregnates a woman is forced to a parent in the sense
that
he has no post conception rights. I'm not nearly as hard-line
about
this
stuff as some folks on here, but I at least can understand their
arguments, geez!

You understand aproval from strangers. Can your ex just sign away
his
rights,
and you would let him? Be real, you enjoy the crack pipe too much.
You
were
complaining about $75.00! You change your stand point to gain
approval
from
people who don't care about their own kids, let alone yours.

At least I have my own mind...

My daughter is 5, not a week old. I am not complaining about $75. I
am
complaining about my daughter's father *insisting* that I take him
to
court over support because he will not agree to a reasonable
amount,
which he can afford.
What's wrong with him taking care of her directly just like YOU do?
Better
yet, how about you pay HIM to take care of the child. Heck, if one
parent is
good enough to get paid to care for their child, then BOTH parents
are
good
enough for same, no?

He used to, before he moved out of state abruptly. I am not asking
him
to pay me to take care of his child. I want him to contribute to the
costs of raising her to a degree that is more equitable.
Nonsense. You simply want him to pay you money for taking care of your
child. The proof that you do NOT believe the arrangement which you are
proposing is equitable lies in the fact that you would NOT be willing
to
bestow upon yourself that which you desire upon him. In other words,
you
are
unwilling to taste your own medicine.

I do not think he is as responsible as I am as a parent.

Which supports my claim.


That is my opinion. If he wanted to be an active parent, he could have
stayed in the same state as she lives in.

Which even FURTHER supports my claim.


But not because
I am a woman. If he *had* full custody,

"If" is a big word.


Well, you asked *if* I would be reasonable if the tables were turned.
And I would be.

I never used the word "if" nor did I ask a question. Apparently, the phrase
"you would NOT be willing" created some confusion, perhaps I should have
used the phrase "you ARE not willing".


I would ask about expenses and
come up with an agreement that we *submitted* to the court, instead of
them using their formula - if only to ensure that payments are recorded
as child support and not as "gifts". I have de facto primary physical
custody because he left the state with less than a day's notice. Do you
suggest that I send her to live with him primarily, when he's already
shown that he can't manage his money or a household?

I am suggesting that you practice what you preach. Being equitable means
that he is entitled to the SAME parental position as you. Did that
answer
your question?


I should send her off hundreds of miles, after the school year has
started, to a man who cannot even budget $200 for groceries for a few
weeks? Who has no plans to have his own apartment anytime soon?

Argumentum ad misericordiam.

He LEFT.
If

There's that word again.

I had LEFT, I would not expect to retain primary physical custody.
The difference between he and I is that I would never put myself in a
position where I would go three months without seeing my daughter.

Never say never.


(I haven't even
gotten into all of that.)
I don't want him to pay me for taking care of our child.

Yes you do.


No, I don't. I want him to contribute equally to the cost of raising her.

Correction: You want him to hand you FREE cash, plain and simple.


I want him to
contribute an equal share towards food, shelter, clothing, latchkey.

Great! Then allow him to provide such things just like YOU do.
[note: if fathers are EQUAL parents to mothers, then why is it that
fathers
need the permission of mothers regarding any interaction with their
children?]


I gave him a detailed accounting of costs for raising our daughter and
asked him to contribute half. He told me to take him to court. So I am.
(We are talking about a matter of an extra $175 a month from what he is
paying now, He lives with his parents and has few expenses.)
He doesn't need my *permission* to see our daughter,

Yes he does, because without it he cannot see her.

but considering he
has moved out of state, obviously, he needs to work around *her*
schedule.

Correction: YOUR schedule.

She can't go to school half the year in one place and half the
year at another,

Yes she can.


Right now, I have excellent health insurance benefits, so I agreed to
write to the Friend of the Court so that he would not be required to
carry health insurance for her.

--

Sarah Gray




--

Sarah Gray

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
...

snip

But not because
I am a woman. If he *had* full custody,

"If" is a big word.


Well, you asked *if* I would be reasonable if the tables were turned.
And I would be.

I never used the word "if" nor did I ask a question. Apparently, the
phrase
"you would NOT be willing" created some confusion, perhaps I should have
used the phrase "you ARE not willing".

What a foolish thing for you to say, Chris. You have no idea what she would
or would not do. Like it or not, HE chose to move. And he seems to have
been paying far less than the courts would have assigned him, so she is
obviously not in it for "all she can get."



I would ask about expenses and
come up with an agreement that we *submitted* to the court, instead of
them using their formula - if only to ensure that payments are
recorded
as child support and not as "gifts". I have de facto primary physical
custody because he left the state with less than a day's notice. Do
you
suggest that I send her to live with him primarily, when he's already
shown that he can't manage his money or a household?

I am suggesting that you practice what you preach. Being equitable
means
that he is entitled to the SAME parental position as you. Did that
answer
your question?


I should send her off hundreds of miles, after the school year has
started, to a man who cannot even budget $200 for groceries for a few
weeks? Who has no plans to have his own apartment anytime soon?

Argumentum ad misericordiam.

No answer, huh? chuckle


He LEFT.
If

There's that word again.

I had LEFT, I would not expect to retain primary physical custody.
The difference between he and I is that I would never put myself in a
position where I would go three months without seeing my daughter.

Never say never.


(I haven't even
gotten into all of that.)
I don't want him to pay me for taking care of our child.

Yes you do.


No, I don't. I want him to contribute equally to the cost of raising her.

Correction: You want him to hand you FREE cash, plain and simple.

chuckle You are in rare form today, Chris.



I want him to
contribute an equal share towards food, shelter, clothing, latchkey.

Great! Then allow him to provide such things just like YOU do.
[note: if fathers are EQUAL parents to mothers, then why is it that
fathers
need the permission of mothers regarding any interaction with their
children?]


I gave him a detailed accounting of costs for raising our daughter and
asked him to contribute half. He told me to take him to court. So I am.
(We are talking about a matter of an extra $175 a month from what he is
paying now, He lives with his parents and has few expenses.)
He doesn't need my *permission* to see our daughter,

Yes he does, because without it he cannot see her.

but considering he
has moved out of state, obviously, he needs to work around *her*
schedule.

Correction: YOUR schedule.

No, Chris, the child's schedule. Unless you feel that school is optional.


She can't go to school half the year in one place and half the
year at another,

Yes she can.

And how would that affect her education? Or is her education secondary to
making sure that your personal interpretation of fair is put into effect?
You are just as unreasonable as those who feel that moms should get 100%
custody and an outrageous chunk of cash every month!

"animal05" wrote in message
newsvydnVP_vJ0t_77anZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
Shadow36 wrote:
"animal05" wrote in message
news:Pu2dnXrlja7S1b7anZ2dnUVZ_ournZ2d@wideopenwest .com...

Chris wrote:


"DB" wrote in message
news

"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in



It's pointless withyou to dig up all the facts, but why do so many

loving


nurturing mothers butcher their children?

For the same reasons many loving nurturing fathers butcher, and rape

their


son's and daughters.

When is the last time a father drowned his two daughters in a bath tub?


Or in a lake with a car?


I don't know who is worse, system supports like illi, or the misogynists
like yourself that make all men look bad.

Maybe not drowning, but is the method so important?

http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2...g-car-on-fire/


Women commit more, and more violent crime against men and children then
men commit against women and children.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/fam27.htm


snicker I've used the same stats in the past against misandrist posters
here. THe problem is when you ignore the fact that there are problems on
both sides of the fence.

I agree. There is a middle ground that seems to be avoided like the plague
by some people.

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"animal05" wrote in message
newsvydnVP_vJ0t_77anZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
Shadow36 wrote:
"animal05" wrote in message
news:Pu2dnXrlja7S1b7anZ2dnUVZ_ournZ2d@wideopenwest .com...

Chris wrote:


"DB" wrote in message
news

"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in



It's pointless withyou to dig up all the facts, but why do so many

loving


nurturing mothers butcher their children?

For the same reasons many loving nurturing fathers butcher, and rape

their


son's and daughters.

When is the last time a father drowned his two daughters in a bath
tub?


Or in a lake with a car?


I don't know who is worse, system supports like illi, or the
misogynists
like yourself that make all men look bad.

Maybe not drowning, but is the method so important?


http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2...mes-jessop-mur
der-8207-near-dugway-ut-murder-suicide-by-their-father-killed-by-setting-car
-on-fire/


Women commit more, and more violent crime against men and children then
men commit against women and children.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/fam27.htm


snicker I've used the same stats in the past against misandrist
posters
here. THe problem is when you ignore the fact that there are problems
on
both sides of the fence.

I agree. There is a middle ground that seems to be avoided like the
plague
by some people.

When someone wants to steal a dollar from you, the middle ground of parting
with fifty cents is NOT the solution.

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
...

snip

But not because
I am a woman. If he *had* full custody,

"If" is a big word.


Well, you asked *if* I would be reasonable if the tables were turned.
And I would be.

I never used the word "if" nor did I ask a question. Apparently, the
phrase
"you would NOT be willing" created some confusion, perhaps I should have
used the phrase "you ARE not willing".

What a foolish thing for you to say, Chris. You have no idea what she
would
or would not do. Like it or not, HE chose to move. And he seems to have
been paying far less than the courts would have assigned him, so she is
obviously not in it for "all she can get."

Nor did I say so. Additionally, I claimed what she is not willing to do, and
her statements SUPPORT my claim. That HE chose to move is irrelevant.





I would ask about expenses and
come up with an agreement that we *submitted* to the court, instead
of
them using their formula - if only to ensure that payments are
recorded
as child support and not as "gifts". I have de facto primary
physical
custody because he left the state with less than a day's notice. Do
you
suggest that I send her to live with him primarily, when he's
already
shown that he can't manage his money or a household?

I am suggesting that you practice what you preach. Being equitable
means
that he is entitled to the SAME parental position as you. Did that
answer
your question?


I should send her off hundreds of miles, after the school year has
started, to a man who cannot even budget $200 for groceries for a few
weeks? Who has no plans to have his own apartment anytime soon?

Argumentum ad misericordiam.

No answer, huh? chuckle

That WAS an answer.
I responded to (in my mind) rhetorical questions. If they are actually
requests for advice, it is not my place to make such decisions for her; thus
yes/no answers are inappropriate.



He LEFT.
If

There's that word again.

I had LEFT, I would not expect to retain primary physical custody.
The difference between he and I is that I would never put myself in a
position where I would go three months without seeing my daughter.

Never say never.


(I haven't even
gotten into all of that.)
I don't want him to pay me for taking care of our child.

Yes you do.


No, I don't. I want him to contribute equally to the cost of raising
her.

Correction: You want him to hand you FREE cash, plain and simple.

chuckle You are in rare form today, Chris.



I want him to
contribute an equal share towards food, shelter, clothing, latchkey.

Great! Then allow him to provide such things just like YOU do.
[note: if fathers are EQUAL parents to mothers, then why is it that
fathers
need the permission of mothers regarding any interaction with their
children?]


I gave him a detailed accounting of costs for raising our daughter and
asked him to contribute half. He told me to take him to court. So I am.
(We are talking about a matter of an extra $175 a month from what he is
paying now, He lives with his parents and has few expenses.)
He doesn't need my *permission* to see our daughter,

Yes he does, because without it he cannot see her.

but considering he
has moved out of state, obviously, he needs to work around *her*
schedule.

Correction: YOUR schedule.

No, Chris, the child's schedule.

Sorry, but children don't make the schedule; unless they have a fool for a
parent.

Unless you feel that school is optional.

School IS optional.



She can't go to school half the year in one place and half the
year at another,

Yes she can.

And how would that affect her education? Or is her education secondary to
making sure that your personal interpretation of fair is put into effect?
You are just as unreasonable as those who feel that moms should get 100%
custody and an outrageous chunk of cash every month!

Ya know something, you're right. Gee, how could I have been so absent minded
to think that somehow a relationship with one's father trumps the crap they
teach in today's schools!
By the way, I NEVER projected any "personal interpretation" of what's fair
in this matter. But I DO know that 2+2=4. Always has, does now, and ALWAYS
will.

[It's when people do what FEELS good that others get cheated.]

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Sarah Gray" wrote in message
...

snip

But not because
I am a woman. If he *had* full custody,

"If" is a big word.


Well, you asked *if* I would be reasonable if the tables were turned.
And I would be.

I never used the word "if" nor did I ask a question. Apparently, the
phrase
"you would NOT be willing" created some confusion, perhaps I should
have
used the phrase "you ARE not willing".

What a foolish thing for you to say, Chris. You have no idea what she
would
or would not do. Like it or not, HE chose to move. And he seems to have
been paying far less than the courts would have assigned him, so she is
obviously not in it for "all she can get."

Nor did I say so. Additionally, I claimed what she is not willing to do,
and
her statements SUPPORT my claim. That HE chose to move is irrelevant.

Again, you have absolutely no way of knowing what she would do were the
roles reversed. You are looking at things with a jaundiced view.


I would ask about expenses and
come up with an agreement that we *submitted* to the court, instead
of
them using their formula - if only to ensure that payments are
recorded
as child support and not as "gifts". I have de facto primary
physical
custody because he left the state with less than a day's notice. Do
you
suggest that I send her to live with him primarily, when he's
already
shown that he can't manage his money or a household?

I am suggesting that you practice what you preach. Being equitable
means
that he is entitled to the SAME parental position as you. Did that
answer
your question?


I should send her off hundreds of miles, after the school year has
started, to a man who cannot even budget $200 for groceries for a few
weeks? Who has no plans to have his own apartment anytime soon?

Argumentum ad misericordiam.

No answer, huh? chuckle

That WAS an answer.
I responded to (in my mind) rhetorical questions. If they are actually
requests for advice, it is not my place to make such decisions for her;
thus
yes/no answers are inappropriate.



He LEFT.
If

There's that word again.

I had LEFT, I would not expect to retain primary physical custody.
The difference between he and I is that I would never put myself in a
position where I would go three months without seeing my daughter.

Never say never.


(I haven't even
gotten into all of that.)
I don't want him to pay me for taking care of our child.

Yes you do.


No, I don't. I want him to contribute equally to the cost of raising
her.

Correction: You want him to hand you FREE cash, plain and simple.

chuckle You are in rare form today, Chris.



I want him to
contribute an equal share towards food, shelter, clothing,
latchkey.

Great! Then allow him to provide such things just like YOU do.
[note: if fathers are EQUAL parents to mothers, then why is it that
fathers
need the permission of mothers regarding any interaction with their
children?]


I gave him a detailed accounting of costs for raising our daughter and
asked him to contribute half. He told me to take him to court. So I
am.
(We are talking about a matter of an extra $175 a month from what he
is
paying now, He lives with his parents and has few expenses.)
He doesn't need my *permission* to see our daughter,

Yes he does, because without it he cannot see her.

but considering he
has moved out of state, obviously, he needs to work around *her*
schedule.

Correction: YOUR schedule.

No, Chris, the child's schedule.

Sorry, but children don't make the schedule; unless they have a fool for a
parent.

Unless you feel that school is optional.

School IS optional.

She is being educated in a traditional setting--not home schooled.
Therefore her schedule is determined by the school calendar, if her parents
want her to be successful at school.




She can't go to school half the year in one place and half the
year at another,

Yes she can.

And how would that affect her education? Or is her education secondary
to
making sure that your personal interpretation of fair is put into effect?
You are just as unreasonable as those who feel that moms should get 100%
custody and an outrageous chunk of cash every month!

Ya know something, you're right. Gee, how could I have been so absent
minded
to think that somehow a relationship with one's father trumps the crap
they
teach in today's schools!

Oh--crap like reading and math? Things needed to succeed in the world
today? Unless, of course, you feel that learning to read is umimportant.
And why should the child be pulled away from her education in order that a
relationship be fostered with a man who CHOSE TO MOVE AWAY FROM HER?

By the way, I NEVER projected any "personal interpretation" of what's fair
in this matter. But I DO know that 2+2=4. Always has, does now, and ALWAYS
will.

And how about 3-1, Chris? Seems like it more accurately represents the
situation under discussion here.

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"animal05" wrote in message
newsvydnVP_vJ0t_77anZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
Shadow36 wrote:
"animal05" wrote in message
news:Pu2dnXrlja7S1b7anZ2dnUVZ_ournZ2d@wideopenwest .com...

Chris wrote:


"DB" wrote in message
news

"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in



It's pointless withyou to dig up all the facts, but why do so many

loving


nurturing mothers butcher their children?

For the same reasons many loving nurturing fathers butcher, and
rape

their


son's and daughters.

When is the last time a father drowned his two daughters in a bath
tub?


Or in a lake with a car?


I don't know who is worse, system supports like illi, or the
misogynists
like yourself that make all men look bad.

Maybe not drowning, but is the method so important?


http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2...mes-jessop-mur
der-8207-near-dugway-ut-murder-suicide-by-their-father-killed-by-setting-car
-on-fire/


Women commit more, and more violent crime against men and children
then
men commit against women and children.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/fam27.htm


snicker I've used the same stats in the past against misandrist
posters
here. THe problem is when you ignore the fact that there are problems
on
both sides of the fence.

I agree. There is a middle ground that seems to be avoided like the
plague
by some people.

When someone wants to steal a dollar from you, the middle ground of
parting
with fifty cents is NOT the solution.

But we are not talking about someone wanting to steal a dollar, Chris. We
are talking about both sides in this war of attrition coming to a middle
ground, and finding an acceptable compromise that will work.

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"animal05" wrote in message
newsvydnVP_vJ0t_77anZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
Shadow36 wrote:
"animal05" wrote in message
news:Pu2dnXrlja7S1b7anZ2dnUVZ_ournZ2d@wideopenwest .com...

Chris wrote:


"DB" wrote in message
news

"Illiana via FamilyKB.com" u38194@uwe wrote in



It's pointless withyou to dig up all the facts, but why do so
many

loving


nurturing mothers butcher their children?

For the same reasons many loving nurturing fathers butcher, and
rape

their


son's and daughters.

When is the last time a father drowned his two daughters in a bath
tub?


Or in a lake with a car?


I don't know who is worse, system supports like illi, or the
misogynists
like yourself that make all men look bad.

Maybe not drowning, but is the method so important?



http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2...ames-jessop-mu
r

der-8207-near-dugway-ut-murder-suicide-by-their-father-killed-by-setting-car
-on-fire/


Women commit more, and more violent crime against men and children
then
men commit against women and children.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/fam27.htm


snicker I've used the same stats in the past against misandrist
posters
here. THe problem is when you ignore the fact that there are
problems
on
both sides of the fence.

I agree. There is a middle ground that seems to be avoided like the
plague
by some people.

When someone wants to steal a dollar from you, the middle ground of
parting
with fifty cents is NOT the solution.

But we are not talking about someone wanting to steal a dollar, Chris. We
are talking about both sides in this war of attrition coming to a middle
ground, and finding an acceptable compromise that will work.

Can you say "ANALOGY"? Even at that, we actually ARE speaking about money
because that is EXACTLY what this woman wants from him. That is ALWYAS the
root of any "child support"/custody action...... FREE MONEY, and LOTS of
it!

Any woman that states otherwise is full of you know what, because if it is
ONLY about protecting her child, then she would leave the $$$ out of it.