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#61
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lenny fackler wrote:
That's a good point. My attitute towards having a 3rd child and traveling with them could change when my two get a bit older and can better occupy themselves. That was certainly our perspective. We had our first two in 1995 and 1997. We thought about a third off and on, but really didn't feel ready for it until 2002 (and had #3 in 2003). There's no comparison between having a toddler and a baby and having two school-aged kids and a baby ;-) The older kids are a *huge* help, and they don't need anywhere near the amount of hands on care that a toddler needs. Adding baby #3 was waaaaaaaay easier than #2 (the hardest for us) or even #1 (which wasn't bad at all). Travelling is easy as well. We had two parents to wrangle the toddler, but the older kids amuse themselves (and often their baby sister) and even haul their own gear. It's just a very different ballgame, and for us it's been a lot of fun. That doesn't mean it would be (or should be) everyone's cup of tea, but I know my husband was *highly* skeptical of a third when #2 was a toddler, but was happily on board when we decided to go for #3, and has been happy with the decision since, even though #3 is a real ball of fire. Best wishes, Ericka |
#62
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"Circe" wrote in message
news:Wwe7e.7339$%c1.4794@fed1read05... "lenny fackler" wrote in message oups.com... Circe wrote: OTOH, if I had known how much of my brain cells homework would consume in the K-2 years (to say nothing of afterwards), I might well have stopped at two! I'd take several more years of infancy/ toddlerhood and its attendant neediness over homework battles any day of the week. Homework battles in k-2? yikes. Something to look forward to I guess. Well, I gather that many kids do their homework without much complaint; I just didn't happen to get those kids! Notwithstanding, homework is increasingly popular for very young children. Both of my school-aged children had homework from the very first day of kindergarten. Unfortunately, despite much evidence to support the notion that homework improves performance for kids in K-3, Er, that should have read "despite little evidence"... -- Be well, Barbara Mom to Mr. Congeniality (7), the Diva (5) and the Race Car Fanatic (3) I have PMS and ESP...I'm the bitch who knows everything! (T-shirt slogan) |
#63
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Circe wrote:
"Barbara Bomberger" wrote in message ... Never mind the every lovin carryons. Thats what bothers me. Adn yes, when we traveled with baby ,we usually took one suiitcase, two at the most and then a backpack. once children could walk and chew gun so to speak, each child is responsible for thier own stuff and have the smallest sized wheeled carryon. I'd love to get away with fewer carry-ons, but I dare not check the medicine (I have prescription stuff that I'd be in trouble without), I won't check the cameras for obvious reasons, and we have to bring food because these days, the US carriers no longer feed you on domestic flights. (A 5-6 hour flight without food with kids? Forget about it!) I do have the bigger kids help carry the carry-ons, though. And we did have the stroller, so we hung some of them on it when we were walking in the airport. Four carry-ons among five people doesn't seem excessive to me. Ideally, I'd pack all of our clothing for *everyone* in a single checked piece of luggage. I couldn't do that this time, though, because the youngest's diapers take up too much space. Next year, when he's potty trained, I fully expect to check one, medium-sized wheeled suitcase for all of us. For us, it depends on the availability of laundry services. For carry-ons, the boys are each allowed a small backpack for their snacks and on-board entertainment. DH carries the diaper backpack. I carry a bag with Everything Else (travel documents, meds, a book, camera, laptop, etc.). Our checked luggage is one bag for me, DH, and the toddler. The boys each have a small, wheeled bag for their stuff (when they have their own, they take better care of their stuff and don't trash our clothing ;-) Our checked bag gets bigger or smaller depending on the season, the availability of laundry facilities, the length of the stay, and whether we're transporting things like gifts or other goodies in addition to clothing. Thus, when we're on the move fully loaded, the older boys each pull their own bag plus their backpacks, one parent has a backpack and a toddler (likely in a small stroller), and the other parent has a somewhat larger wheeled bag and a medium-sized carryon bag perched on top. It's quite reasonable and we can hike a ways if we have to. Best wishes, Ericka |
#64
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"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
... Ideally, I'd pack all of our clothing for *everyone* in a single checked piece of luggage. I couldn't do that this time, though, because the youngest's diapers take up too much space. Next year, when he's potty trained, I fully expect to check one, medium-sized wheeled suitcase for all of us. For us, it depends on the availability of laundry services. When I book places for us to stay in Europe, I usually won't rent a place unless it comes with a washing machine. This last time, we considered taking the clothes to a fluff-and-fold place because it was cold and things weren't drying (dryers being virtually unheard of in private residences in Europe), but wound up being able to manage doing it ourselves. When we were in Mexico, we *did* use a laundry service after we'd been there about 6 days because we didn't have a washer in our townhouse. Being in Mexico, it was very inexpensive (I think it was less than 20 dollars to do almost a week's worth of laundry for 8 people). I had to have a few things washed by the hotel in Mexico City because of the stomach bug we got, but it was no problem. I recall when my husband and I went to Spain in 1994, we stopped in a laundromat once and did our laundry. IOW, I've never had a problem finding laundry facilities when/if I needed them. So I just *plan* when packing to need them and figure the rest will fall into place! -- Be well, Barbara Mom to Mr. Congeniality (7), the Diva (5) and the Race Car Fanatic (3) I have PMS and ESP...I'm the bitch who knows everything! (T-shirt slogan) |
#65
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Banty wrote: In article HHd7e.7330$%c1.314@fed1read05, Circe says... wrote in message oups.com... Circe wrote: wrote in message ups.com... The person who doesn't want the child wins, because it's an irrevocable committment to a third party, and I don't think that should ever be undertaken unwillingly. And I say this as the person who wants the child. I think there's general agreement that the "No" in this case wins. But that "win" may be an overall loss to the relationship that ultimately destroys it. I've seen it happen, so I know it can. I'm on the side of those who think that breaking up a family w/child(ren) which is otherwise okay over this is somewhat selfish, because the existing child or children can be hurt. I tend to agree. On the other hand, the unwillingness of one spouse to have more children when the other spouse deeply desires it is also a form of selfishness. (Which is not to say that the spouse who wants more children is any more or less selfish, by the way.) Right. I perceive that the onus is being put on the spouse wanting more children; I think it's close to symmetrical. The spouse NOT wanting a third, going through the process of a divorce, breaking up a family for the existing kids, rather than having a third child - how is it he or she is any less at fault?? I just don't see it as symmetrical at all. It's symmetrical when it comes to the needs and emotions of the adults; this adult desperately wants another child, this adult very much doesn't, but that's not all there is to it. The non-symmetrical part is that the child-wanting spouse is asking the other to make a huge, lifelong commitment to a third person, which isn't breakable even if the marriage dissolves in the future for unrelated reasons, or, hell, even if the child-wanting spouse *dies*. I don't think the status quo always trumps, because sometimes the status quo is bad or at least less than optimal. The thing about having kids that puts it in a special category for me is that there is just no undoing the alteration if it turns out not to be a good idea, and that a third, innocent person will bear the consquences if things go poorly. If the proposed change to the status quo is moving to another faraway country, one could always move back. If it's a proposed change in lifestyle, one could always return to the old way. If it's a child, that's that. Beth |
#66
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In article ,
Banty wrote: In article , dragonlady says... I always take the desire to have kids seriously, but these are issues between the two adults, and I feel pretty strongly that breaking up a child's home (thus hurting the child or children you already have) because of this particular disagreement is a Bad Thing. OK, but then someone has to 'win'. There's no half-child, and a dog doesn't do. So who wins? Banty The kids who still have their parents living together. One of the things I learned a long time ago is that in a loving relationship, if a dispute ends up with a "winner", in the long run both lose. There IS no winner between the parents -- either way, one of them doesn't get what they completely want. However, grownups find ways to deal with the disappointments in life -- IMHO, they should be more concerned about how it effects the kids they already have, and finding a way to stay together AND manage to be content with whatever decision is made -- with the help, perhaps, of some significant counseling -- matters more than anything else. -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care |
#67
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In article 04d7e.7320$%c1.789@fed1read05, "Circe"
wrote: Note that many people who *plan* to have only X number of kids wind up with an extra quite by accident. Contraceptive failures *do* happen. In such a situation (an existing, unplanned pregnancy), should the "No" still win? -- Or, in our case, twins happen, too. (I wanted 2 or 3, DH wanted 1 or 2, we agreed on 2 -- but got 3 anyway.) -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care |
#68
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In article . com,
" wrote: IOW, would someone who would leave a spouse because the spouse declined to have more kids also leave the spouse if the spouse was UNABLE to have more kids? Well I DID know I guy (I'll decline to call him a friend) who left his wife WHILE SHE WAS IN THE HOSPITAL following sugery to remove her uterus due to cancer, because he wanted children and she couldn't have them now.... -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care |
#69
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dragonlady wrote: In article . com, " wrote: IOW, would someone who would leave a spouse because the spouse declined to have more kids also leave the spouse if the spouse was UNABLE to have more kids? Well I DID know I guy (I'll decline to call him a friend) who left his wife WHILE SHE WAS IN THE HOSPITAL following sugery to remove her uterus due to cancer, because he wanted children and she couldn't have them now.... Bleah. Well, I guess it does happen, but I bet it's rarer. Beth |
#70
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In article cCe7e.7340$%c1.3184@fed1read05,
"Circe" wrote: "Barbara Bomberger" wrote in message ... Never mind the every lovin carryons. Thats what bothers me. And just for the opposite point of view: after numerous checked-baggage disasters, including one where our suitcase was eaten by a baggage-handling machine, and MOST of our stuff - though not quite all of it - showed up filthy, in a garbage bag, I have sworn NEVER to check a bag again. If it doesn't fit into our allotted carry-ons, it stays home. Jeanne |
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