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#71
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In article ,
dragonlady says... In article , Banty wrote: In article , dragonlady says... I always take the desire to have kids seriously, but these are issues between the two adults, and I feel pretty strongly that breaking up a child's home (thus hurting the child or children you already have) because of this particular disagreement is a Bad Thing. OK, but then someone has to 'win'. There's no half-child, and a dog doesn't do. So who wins? Banty The kids who still have their parents living together. Yeah, so. Here and below, you avoid addressing the issue. One of the things I learned a long time ago is that in a loving relationship, if a dispute ends up with a "winner", in the long run both lose. There IS no winner between the parents -- either way, one of them doesn't get what they completely want. However, grownups find ways to deal with the disappointments in life -- IMHO, they should be more concerned about how it effects the kids they already have, and finding a way to stay together AND manage to be content with whatever decision is made -- with the help, perhaps, of some significant counseling -- matters more than anything else. OK - so who gets what they want?? Who bears dissapointment for the sake of the marriage and the existing children? The least dominant or milder-mannered? The one without a uterus? The one bringing in the least income? Who who? How far should it go to assure this decision? Should someone undergo surgery to prevent conception? Then who? If a third is conceived accidentally, who makes the changes? Can the marriage survive that - whatever the outcome of that scenario is? I'm not saying there are any answers, but it isn't sufficient at all to leave it with the marriage needing to stay intact. And counselling doesn't fix everything. Banty |
#72
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In article .com,
" wrote: dragonlady wrote: In article . com, " wrote: IOW, would someone who would leave a spouse because the spouse declined to have more kids also leave the spouse if the spouse was UNABLE to have more kids? Well I DID know I guy (I'll decline to call him a friend) who left his wife WHILE SHE WAS IN THE HOSPITAL following sugery to remove her uterus due to cancer, because he wanted children and she couldn't have them now.... Bleah. Well, I guess it does happen, but I bet it's rarer. Beth One would hope... -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care |
#73
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dragonlady wrote: In article .com, " wrote: dragonlady wrote: In article . com, " wrote: IOW, would someone who would leave a spouse because the spouse declined to have more kids also leave the spouse if the spouse was UNABLE to have more kids? Well I DID know I guy (I'll decline to call him a friend) who left his wife WHILE SHE WAS IN THE HOSPITAL following sugery to remove her uterus due to cancer, because he wanted children and she couldn't have them now.... Bleah. Well, I guess it does happen, but I bet it's rarer. Beth One would hope... Actually, I should clarify. I don't necessarily think there's anything evil with someone who really wants kids leaving a childless marriage to have kids, even if the problem is physical rather than emotional. I would hope in such a case that this condition had been made clear during the courting process, but neverthless it's between two adults. I set the bar much higher when an existing child or children are involved. Leaving someone for really any reason other than abuse while they're in the hospital having surgery for cancer is just awful no matter what else is involved. Leaving someone who wanted to have kids with you because they were stricken with cancer and can't do it any more is cold, but at the very least have the decency to nurse the person through the recuperation process. Beth |
#74
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wrote in message Leaving someone for really any reason other than abuse while they're in the hospital having surgery for cancer is just awful no matter what else is involved. Leaving someone who wanted to have kids with you because they were stricken with cancer and can't do it any more is cold, but at the very least have the decency to nurse the person through the recuperation process. No doubt.. ..that is a really disgusting thing to do. Unbelievable. |
#75
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Ericka Kammerer wrote:
My experience is that it just isn't as bad as most assume. I'm not trying to talk you into a 3rd kid--that's obviously between you and your wife. "lenny fackler" wrote in message Seems like everyone I know who has 3 kids _does_ try to talk us into it. I'm not buying it. I think it's a trick ;-) I have three and I won't talk you into having a third.) Some people have it easy and others have it a little harder. I'm in the latter company and it definitely has not been easy (it was actually easier when they were smaller). With their current ages as they are, they fight ALL the time and hormones are raging. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Traveling is not easy either and I don't care how easy Barbara makes it sound. Air-fair is expensive for a family of five and going anywhere is a production, so we stick to beaches and camping ourselves, which is fun for us anyway, so no one is missing out. My kids don't travel well, so that could be a factor for us. -- Sue (mom to three girls) |
#76
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"Circe" wrote in message
Haven't people ever heard of DOING LAUNDRY? On vacation, no way. That's why I'm on vacation, to get get a break from all that stuff. I'd rather have more stuff to carry. -- Sue (mom to three girls) |
#77
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In article ,
Banty wrote: In article , dragonlady says... In article , Banty wrote: In article , dragonlady says... I always take the desire to have kids seriously, but these are issues between the two adults, and I feel pretty strongly that breaking up a child's home (thus hurting the child or children you already have) because of this particular disagreement is a Bad Thing. OK, but then someone has to 'win'. There's no half-child, and a dog doesn't do. So who wins? Banty The kids who still have their parents living together. Yeah, so. Here and below, you avoid addressing the issue. One of the things I learned a long time ago is that in a loving relationship, if a dispute ends up with a "winner", in the long run both lose. There IS no winner between the parents -- either way, one of them doesn't get what they completely want. However, grownups find ways to deal with the disappointments in life -- IMHO, they should be more concerned about how it effects the kids they already have, and finding a way to stay together AND manage to be content with whatever decision is made -- with the help, perhaps, of some significant counseling -- matters more than anything else. OK - so who gets what they want?? Who bears dissapointment for the sake of the marriage and the existing children? The least dominant or milder-mannered? The one without a uterus? You work it out with a therapist. There is no "right" answer, and if either feels they have "won", then they both lose in the long run. There is no way for me to answer this for any couple other than DH and myself -- or for you, either. I'm saying there IS no "winning" and "losing", except that if you manage to work it out somehow -- and I'd hope people would -- the kids already in the marriage are the real winners. And if you don't, and you split up, the kids are the real losers, even if both adults end up with what they want in terms of more kids. The one bringing in the least income? Who who? How far should it go to assure this decision? Should someone undergo surgery to prevent conception? Then who? That one seems obvious: the one who is opposed to more kids is responsible for contraception -- period. That includes if no surgery is planned to make it permanent: if the man doesn't want more kids, he'd better be using a condom and spermacide, every time. If it is the woman who doesn't want kids, *she* takes responsiblity. The morning DH was going in for snipping, I said, "You know, I'm not sure I'm ready for this. When the twins are 5 or 6, we might want more kids." He said, "YOU might. I'm done." That's why HE was the one going under the knife. Had I felt strongly that I wanted more kids, we'd have talked more; I only felt, at that point, a vague regret that this was the last time I'd give birth, hold my own newborns, etc. If a third is conceived accidentally, who makes the changes? Can the marriage survive that - whatever the outcome of that scenario is? I'm not saying there are any answers, but it isn't sufficient at all to leave it with the marriage needing to stay intact. And counselling doesn't fix everything. I realize that, and I know that some marriages are unsalvageable -- with or without this issue. A strong marriage will survive this. An unhealthy one may not. -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care |
#78
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"Sue" wrote in message
... "Circe" wrote in message Haven't people ever heard of DOING LAUNDRY? On vacation, no way. That's why I'm on vacation, to get get a break from all that stuff. I'd rather have more stuff to carry. I'd rather either do laundry myself or find a service to do it. Frankly, we don't have a choice to bring a lot more stuff, because we travel with a large enough group that our luggage won't *fit* in a vehicle once we arrive if we don't keep it to a minimum. Doubling our luggage so we wouldn't have to wash would mean renting an extra car to schlep it. -- Be well, Barbara Mom to Mr. Congeniality (7), the Diva (5) and the Race Car Fanatic (3) I have PMS and ESP...I'm the bitch who knows everything! (T-shirt slogan) |
#79
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"Circe" wrote in message news:3%a7e.7306$%c1.6066@fed1read05... Well, I'll admit that the fact that we do want to do more travel is one consideration that has put a damper on having a fourth child. It's pretty difficult to find accommodations in Europe for a family of five So what type of accomodations do you end up with, and how do you find them? Trolling for info for the future, I am. P. Tierney |
#80
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"Circe" wrote in message
I'd rather either do laundry myself or find a service to do it. Frankly, we don't have a choice to bring a lot more stuff, because we travel with a large enough group that our luggage won't *fit* in a vehicle once we arrive if we don't keep it to a minimum. Doubling our luggage so we wouldn't have to wash would mean renting an extra car to schlep it. We camp, so it hasn't been a problem to bring more stuff. Anyway, the kids get dirty extremely easy when camping. If I didn't bring more clothes, I would spend all my time doing laundry. I already do enough laundry to last a life time. I don't need to do it on vacation. -- Sue (mom to three girls) |
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